Nazi deserter hails long-awaited triumph

[demoleft]

Source: bbc

After a long struggle, on Tuesday, the German parliament revoked the convictions of the last group of victims, those condemned as "war traitors," more than 60 years after the end of World War II.

Ludwig Baumann joined Hitler's Wehrmacht when he was 19, but he became a pacifist and in June 1942, he deserted, along with his friend Kurt Oldenburg, while they were deployed in France.

"I didn't want to take part in Hitler's war," Ludwig Baumann told the BBC.

"I realised it was a criminal and genocidal war," he said.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8244186.stm

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have soldiers the right to change their mind, the freedom of choice on their life based on ethics, morals, religion, whatever?
the case is not just historical - it happened in recent times to an english soldier serving in afghanistan, if i'm not mistaken.

"cowardice" is the usual label, if not "betrayal". and the usual division between conservatives and progressives.
based on the freedom of choice of the individuals.

i'm glad to have heard this story. justice at last.

a kick in the face of those bourgeois people in their comfortable suits and neckties sentencing on human souls who tasted the frontline of a war and the horror. i always see the disgusting characters of George Grosz in them.

[trungpa ricochet]

1. Ausgezeichnet!

Congratulations to these men and to Germany.

[customerserviceguy]

2. Have the criminal convictions of those who were sent to prison

for desertion or draft evasion concerning the Vietnam War been similarly reversed? I don't seem to recall.

If so, then, hey, Germany, about fucking time.

If not, then hey, US, what are we waiting for, a better example than this?

[rockymountaindem]

5. I believe either Ford or Carter issued them a blanket pardon

I think it was Ford, but I'm not 100% on that.

[Thothmes]

6. President Carter pardoned draft evaders and those

that left the country to keep out of the service. I do not think that his pardon covered those that deserted from the armed services.

[unc70]

7. Ford did conditional amnesty on evaders, Carter general pardon -- deserters case-by-case

Ford began with a program establishing amnesty conditional on meeting certain requirements and taking various explicit actions. (I seem to remember this being associated with his pardon of Nixon.)

Carter campaigned with a promise to pardon(!) evaders, a promise he kept on his first day in office. Those evaders who had violated just the Selective Service Act and had not resorted to violence were granted a general pardon without any further action on their part. He provided that those who did not qualify for this general pardon (e.g. deserters, those with other legal issues) could petition on an individual basis for review and possible pardon.

I don't know just how all this played out over the years. The RW talking points about this and about Carter are still used, even on DU, while forgeting the Ford amnesty program. Most of those most vocal in denouncing Carter and the "cowards" who ran to Canada were not the combat vets -- they often were the ones who had either avoided being drafted using other methods (medical, NG, deferments, connections to the local draft board) or had never deployed overseas, or they were of our parents generation and their WWII experiences.

Many returning vets were prominent in the anti-war and the amnesty/pardon efforts, though many others still believe(d) that we should "won" at all cost ("bomb them back to the Stone Age", not realizing we dropped more bombs on Vietnam than we had dropped everywhere in all of WWII).

Think about Carter being able to have "general pardon for draft evaders" as a cornerstone of a presidential campaign, with his opponent (Ford) supporting a more-limited amnesty. Talk about keeping ones promises. BTW In the 1976 Repub primaries, Reagan was taken under the wing of Jesse Helms and thus began the rise of the divisive politics that have dominated national politics ever since. (Reagan won his first state here in NC.)

[Downwinder]

3. Worked for Bush. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

4. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, demoleft.

[David__77]

8. East Germany did this right after it was founded.

They were lauded as victims of fascism many were awarded the "medal for the fighters against fascism." Why did West Germany not follow suit?

[Thothmes]

10. West Germany was not occupied by The Soviet Army

[dballance]

9. Thank You Mr. Baumann

Mr. Baumann displayed the morality and strength I wish more US soldiers participating in the Iraq war would have shown. There would be no Abu Ghraib scandal, no water-boarding and no disgrace for the USA. The forties were a time when education was much more highly regarded than it is today. To some extent it was also a simpler time and it was easier to determine right from wrong.

I've never been in a war zone so I cannot condemn people like Lyndie England for getting caught up in a nightmare and going along with the mob mentality that produced abuses of prisoners. I certainly don't approve of the "Nuremberg Defense" for the officers and policy-makers who advocated for torture. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

I can't say I have the same desire to see enlisted men and women punished though. Too many have already been scapegoated. How effective will the enlisted be and how long will they continue to obey orders when they see themselves thrown under the bus as a result? Not good for morale and not good policy.


Education in the USA is so undervalued and education about history is at the bottom of the list. I don't want to offend the enlisted personnel but I wonder if they had the proper frame of reference to know what they were doing was wrong? Young, impressionable people can do foolish things. I know I did.

I tip my hat to Mr. Baumann and his strength for survival. Thank you sir for understanding what your superiors were ordering you to do was wrong. Thank you sir for being so certain of that and so viscerally opposed to it that you condemned yourself to a death sentence rather than go along.

Congratulations on your vindication.

[Vidar]

11. Mr. Baumann risked death, torture & later derision in a remarkable show

of conscience which he maintained for over 60 years. He's a far better man than those who just followed orders, or the evil politicians, be they German, American or whatever, who started or maintained unjust wars. Bravo Mr. Baumann!