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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:13 AM
Original message
Bush's Search Policy For Travelers' [Laptops, Cameras, iPods, Cellphones] Is Kept
Edited on Fri Aug-28-09 11:14 AM by Turborama
Source: Washington Post

Obama Officials Say Oversight Will Grow

By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 28, 2009

The Obama administration will largely preserve Bush-era procedures allowing the government to search -- without suspicion of wrongdoing -- the contents of a traveler's laptop computer, cellphone or other electronic device, although officials said new policies would expand oversight of such inspections.

The policy, disclosed Thursday in a pair of Department of Homeland Security directives, describes more fully than did the Bush administration the procedures by which travelers' laptops, iPods, cameras and other digital devices can be searched and seized when they cross a U.S. border. And it sets time limits for completing searches.

But representatives of civil liberties and travelers groups say they see little substantive difference between the Bush-era policy, which prompted controversy, and this one.

"It's a disappointing ratification of the suspicionless search policy put in place by the Bush administration," said Catherine Crump, staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union. "It provides a lot of procedural safeguards, but it doesn't deal with the fundamental problem, which is that under the policy, government officials are free to search people's laptops and cellphones for any reason whatsoever."

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...



Think Progress are also covering this: Obama Administration To Preserve Bush-Era Policy Of Intrusive Laptop Searches
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bush's _____ policy is kept.
Just fill in the blank.
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think a distinction needs to be made
This policy is for people who are coming into the USA from another country, it's not saying they can come search my laptop whenever they feel like. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but hasn't the US border patrol always been allowed to search any vehicles,luggage, or other personal effects of people coming into this country?

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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah. Bush's policy is w hy my friend from Stockholm
has ceased his yearly pleasure visits to the U.S. He's a PhD, an MD and speaks several languages and was APPALLED by his treatment upon his last arrival (several years ago) in NYC. He will only come for business now.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sounds like he has...
Stockholm Syndrome. :)
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. NO ----"IT'S CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN"
By the "Present Occupant"
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. The Fatherland Security people at JFK are psychotically rude.
I think they take some sort of perverse pride in it.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Homeland Security was Bush's stimulus program.
It created jobs for all kinds of people who are "right-thinking" and not qualified to do anything more creative and productive.

Contrast the Homeland Security program with Carter's vision of FEMA which, had it been realized, would have coordinated emergency services for Katrina, the wildfires in the west, the tornadoes in the midwest and all of the other emergencies we face on a regular basis -- including outbreaks of violence of all kinds. Carter's plan required flexibility and a comprehensive response to events. Bush's plan focused on one specific type of danger. Ironically, the evil that Bush spent so much time and money protecting us against is one of the rarest occurrences -- terrorism.

On the other hand, really bad wildfires every year here in California. And terrorism in families in the form of domestic violence including violence against children is commonplace. Yet we do very little to educate people about how to avoid domestic violence.

I'm not saying that the 9/11 type of terrorism isn't important. I'm not saying that precautions should not be taken. It's just a matter of balance. So many resources are invested in trying to prevent terrorists at the borders of the U.S., but so little is spent trying to prevent forest fires in the west. It just seems irrational.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. DHS was our idea. n/t
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. No doubt.
Gotta make the job fun! :sarcasm:
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. What happened upon his arrival?
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. He was physically searched, his bags were searched,
and then he was taken to a room where he waited for an hour, and was then allowed to continue his travels. He has no idea WTF the problem was, but hey, he's Swedish. That kind of shit doesn't happen over there.
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-30-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. Doesn't sound that bad. I am not defending shoddy treatment but folks got nuts after 9-11,
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-30-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I think it sounds appalling.
I've traveled all over the world and haven't had to deal with anything like that. Sure, now I'm used to taking off my shoes and being subjected to a humiliating search of my luggage but it isn't the way it used to be. And "folks" are still nuts... I think it's a permanent change for the awful.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Here's your correction as requested.
"Under the policy begun by Bush and now continued by Obama, the government can open your laptop and read your medical records, financial records, e-mails, work product and personal correspondence -- all without any suspicion of illegal activity," said Elizabeth Goitein, who leads the liberty and national security project at the nonprofit Brennan Center for Justice.

Goitein, formerly a counsel to Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.), said the Bush policy itself "broke sharply" with previous Customs directives, which required reasonable suspicion before agents could read the contents of documents. Feingold last year introduced legislation to restore the requirement.


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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. When we returned to the U.S. during the 1980s, we mailed packages
containing our possessions. We had been in Europe for many years and owned two items of East German manufacture. We had bought them quite legally. We they were obviously used. One was a metronome which had been very carefully packed. It was broken to the point of uselessness. The other was a set of binoculars. They were very sturdy and had survived the trip, but their case was torn to the point that it could not be used. Those were the only two of all of our possessions that had suffered in our move. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. It was very strange.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Did you insure them when sending? nt
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. No. We could barely afford the postage and our tickets back.
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Sure, but they weren't allowed to photocopy all your documents in your possesion
and permanently store them, which is what this Bush policy amounts to. they weren't allowed to develop your film, and then keep copies of your photos, and they weren't allowed to make copies of your cassette tapes and store them, all without any reasonable suspicion, and all without you being able to force them to destroy their copies if nothing suspicious was found.
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. yes, exactly
Edited on Sat Aug-29-09 05:09 PM by subcomhd
it is at border crossings and other points of entry, where they can search your butthole if they want - and always could.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
Before going to the US for a visit a few years back, I loaded my iPod with anti-war, anti-Bush, and anti-fascists tunes - just in case.



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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. more continuation of "bush era" policies...
just f'ing great. :grr:

I DID NOT VOTE FOR A CONTINUATION OF BUSH POLICIES. THAT IS NOT CHANGE!

My apologies for the caps, but man, it's frustrating.
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. No no no O-Man!
This is NOT change!

For a Constitutional Professor you sure do violate it frequently.
:banghead:
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Just what part of the Constitution does this violate?
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-30-09 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Reasonable search and seizure?
I accept looking in luggage...that's reasonable,
but you can't hide a gun in a cell phone.

We're all suspected El-Ciaduh spies now,
just like witches in Salem and Reds under the bed.

Are you wanting security over freedom?
You know what they say.
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-30-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Trading freedom for security
Edited on Sun Aug-30-09 01:09 PM by subcomhd
As for security, I don't know if it will make anyone more secure or not.

I travel internationally a lot. Sometimes they search me thoroughly and sometimes they wave me through and look at nothing. I have never had them search any electronic equipment all during the Bush and now Obama years. And as I have always assumed they could do a body cavity search on me I have never expected, nor been entitled to 4th amendment protections entering the country through a port or land border crossing.

So I don't see very much security or freedom in this issue at all.

Border Searches .--''That searches made at the border, pursuant to the longstanding right of the sovereign to protect itself by stopping and examining persons and property crossing into this country, are reasonable simply by virtue of the fact that they occur at the border, should, by now, require no extended demonstration.'' 87 Authorized by the First Congress, 88 the customs search in these circumstances requires no warrant, no probable cause, not even the showing of some degree of suspicion that accompanies even investigatory stops. 89 Moreover, while prolonged detention of travelers beyond the routine customs search and inspection must be justified by the Terry standard of reasonable suspicion having a particularized and objective basis, 90 Terry protections as to the length and intrusiveness of the search do not apply"

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendme...
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yet more evidence of the Corrupt Continuity of Government Goon Squad
This Corrupted DLC Part 2 Administration will never give up any powers granted by the previous administration without a big fight. Just like they will refuse to enforce laws that are already on the books that would limit their own power and set a precedent for future abuses.

People are so stupid in this regard. They use emotional cues that permit violations of the Constitution, while ignoring the fact that once a government or agency has legal cover, they will use it and ultimately abuse it.

It's not about Republican or Democrat anymore. It's about the survival of a Capitalist System without any checks and balances, writing its own rules and regulations, and gathering yet more power that it can use to keep the FRAUD alive.

The Corporations are in FULL control at this point. It is no longer the Government we are "Trusting" to do the right thing. We have a bunch of Coroporate embedded CEO's running the departments that were intitially set up to prevent unethical excess, but have been compromised to the point where we all get screwed.

In the Military, if a password is Compromised, the standard operating procedure is to change all the passwords, regardless just to be safe. It's time the American people start thinking about changing the passwords, and taking away the keys to the candy store.

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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Change we can belie----oh wait....
never mind... :grr:
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. You have to admit, though, that it really was a catchy little slogan. n/t
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Buenaventura Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. what's their point?
to prevent bad stuff (!) from entering the country? of course not - there's a gazillion ways to move electronic data across borders. so then what? you decide.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. The TSA has RUINED what little pleasure there was left in travel
I always enjoy having 7-11-clerks-turned-border-guard rummage through my belongings.

Plus, if they find a picture of your 1-year-old in the bathtub, they can confiscate your brand new laptops for child porn.

Just think how much revenue the TSA Goons can generate in a year by stealing laptops and I-Phones?

drip-drip-drip-drip.. this is the sound of your freedom going down the drain.. one drop at a time.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. Every time I hear that TSA *must* have security procedure X, I think about the time
my husband showed my passport instead of his own and the ever-vigilant TSA didn't notice it. Hubby did, and was about to explain and drag out his driver's license when they waved him through. We have different surnames and don't look a damned thing like each other.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Pfft!!! 4th amendment rights are sooooo old school.
:banghead:
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Humbertink Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. I'll give up my 4th Amendment rights.....
...in exchange for the right to be strip-searched by a Drew Barrymore look-alike! :evilgrin:
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. yeah, because the 4th amendment really applies when
Crossing the border. That's why they aren't allowed to look through your luggage or your car - at least not until Bush and his twin Obama.
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
24. I used to fly Northwest 4 times a year between Canada and Asia.
But now since flying NW requires having to go through US customs and potentially be subject to this shit I always fly Air Canada and bypass the US.

As if US airlines are not already having enough trouble. Mind you Air Canada needs the business badly too.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. "Change"
Never voting for this liar again.

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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. That doesn't make sense
He actually promised not to search computers entering the country?

You voted for him the first time?

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. All the more reason to avoid flying in the USA. nt
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. I heard he's going to let them look through luggage too!!!
Damn you Obama! Seriously, when did you ever have a 4th Amendment privilege GOING THROUGH CUSTOMS AND IMMIGRATION AT A BORDER OR PORT? Jeez.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. "4th Amendment privilege" ???!?!!? It's called a right.
That's the whole fucking point.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Not the "Bill of Privileges", is it? nt
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. privilege
Edited on Sat Aug-29-09 07:59 PM by subcomhd
I had the 14th Amendment in my head and I just typed "privilege" as in "privileges and immunities." Now that we have cleared that up, when have 4th amendment protections applied when entering the country? Huh?
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
39. How hopeychangey n/t
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