Judge: CIA interrogations not relevant to 9/11 accused's sanity

[sabra]

Source: Miami Herald

U.S. military defense lawyers for accused 9/11 conspirator Ramzi bin al Shibh cannot learn what interrogation techniques CIA agents used on the Yemeni before he was moved to Guantánamo to be tried as a terrorist, an Army judge has ruled.

Bin al Shibh, 37, is one of five men charged in a complex death penalty prosecution by military commission currently under review by the Obama administration. He allegedly helped organize the Hamburg, Germany, cell of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers before the suicide mission that killed 2,974 people in New York, the Pentagon and Pennsylvania.

But his lawyers say he suffers a ``delusional disorder,'' and hallucinations in his cell at Guantánamo may leave him neither sane enough to act as his own attorney nor to stand trial. Prison camp doctors treat him with psychotropic drugs.

Army Col. Stephen Henley, the military judge on the case, has scheduled a competency hearing for mid-September.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/guantanamo/story/1179756.html

[Eric J in MN]

1. He can't get a fair trial if his attorneys are kept in the dark...

...about what was done to him.

[winyanstaz]

2. He cannot have a fair trial....

When what was done or drugs given him are hidden. This is a farce! If there is evidence..present it..if not..turn him lose! Restore America's honor and decency and the rule of law for heaven's sake!

[The Stranger]

3. Keep the records of what is going on in Guantanamo.

The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they will turn, we will make sure of it.

[No Elephants]

9. "We" will make sure of it? Who? How? If only.

[Supersedeas]

4. what a mess

[RedCloud]

5. And those who are being driven crazy by Rush each day, will want his blood.

The military and paramilitary are all about cover ups. This needs to go civilian at a neutral site.

[Solly Mack]

6. So..how he was tortured is to be kept from his lawyers?

and torture isn't relevant to sanity/competence? Even though it's been shown torture can and does cause psychological disorders?

Notice how the article dropped the word enhanced?

[Zodiak]

7. Wow...color me shocked that a military judge would rule in this stupid CYA way n/t

[leveymg]

8. All these guys have been turned into MK-ARTICHOKES

No, that's not a new side dish at Mickey-D's.

[No Elephants]

10. Not sane enough to participate in his own defense. Hallucinating.

[kpete]

11. Judge: CIA interrogations not relevant to 9/11 accused's sanity

Source: Miami Herald

BY CAROL ROSENBERG
[email protected]

U.S. military defense lawyers for accused 9/11 conspirator Ramzi bin al Shibh cannot learn what interrogation techniques CIA agents used on the Yemeni before he was moved to Guantánamo to be tried as a terrorist, an Army judge has ruled.

Bin al Shibh, 37, is one of five men charged in a complex death penalty prosecution by military commission currently under review by the Obama administration. He allegedly helped organize the Hamburg, Germany, cell of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers before the suicide mission that killed 2,974 people in New York, the Pentagon and Pennsylvania.

But his lawyers say he suffers a ``delusional disorder,'' and hallucinations in his cell at Guantánamo may leave him neither sane enough to act as his own attorney nor to stand trial. Prison camp doctors treat him with psychotropic drugs.

Army Col. Stephen Henley, the military judge on the case, has scheduled a competency hearing for mid-September.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/guantanamo/story/1179756.html

[EFerrari]

12. Shame on that judge.

[Xipe Totec]

13. No, I think the judge is right here.

Was there torture?

No doubt.

Did that torture contribute to the man's mental incapacity?

Probably.

But that is not the question put before the judge.

The question is: Is the man mentally capable to stand trial?

The question is not why he is or he is not capable.

The questions:

Is he fit to stand trial?


As much as I abhor torture, and I do believe this man was tortured, I do not hold the judge responsible in this case.

I hold the Bush administration guilty of torture, and they should be brought to justice.

But this is not the right venue.

[EFerrari]

14. Wrong. His attorneys deserve the information they need to mount a defense.

And the details of his torture obtain, directly, to mounting that defense.

[Xipe Totec]

15. No you are wrong

The judge has to abide by the law.

And the question is whether or not he is fit to stand trial.

Period.

As much as I would love to expose the Butchers of the Bush Administration, the onus is not on this judge.

Sorry, but that's just not the case.

[cosmicone]

16. The judge has to compel disclosure of every method used to gain information

which will be used against him. He has 6th amendment rights to confront the accusers.

[Xipe Totec]

18. The first question is whether he is fit to stand trial

after that question is answered, we can go from there.

Follow the law; first and foremost, follow the law.

[EFerrari]

19. The details of his torture are directly responsive as to whether he is

fit to stand trial and why or why not. Follow the law, my granny. This is a political decision, not a legal one.

[Xipe Totec]

20. I disagree.

If you are willing to ignore the law, then we're fucked already.

If you're willing to ignore the law, then there is no longer an issue, is there?

[EFerrari]

29. That's a circular, not to mention, ridiculous argument.

[EFerrari]

17. This is not about Bush but about this defendent's rights

which the judge is clearly infringing on.

As Obama has (almost) sworn off torture, there is no national security argument here at all.

[Downwinder]

21. Are his doctors entitled to his torture records? n/t

[EFerrari]

24. If there is a psychiatric issue here, I would think so. n/t

[Xipe Totec]

22. No, he is not infringing on his rights

The question is:

Is the defendant fit to stand trial?

If he is, then, and only then, can we examine the evidence against him.

If the defendant is unfit to stand trial, then the evidence aganst him is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT!

If the defendant is unfit, the case is dismissed and the evidence will NEVER BE EXAMINED!

Think about that...

[EFerrari]

23. The details of his torture is relevant to his capacity.

[Downwinder]

25. Gee, when I broke my arm the doctor asked me how I did it.

Seems it helped the diagnosis and treatment. I don't know what the hell difference it made that I was going down the street at 30 mph on roller blades.

[EFerrari]

30. The military is essentially telling his attorneys "trust us" because

without access to the details of his treatment, how the f is a doctor supposed to do an adequate assessment?

What a joke. Shame on anyone who is signing off on this.

[eggplant]

27. Well, I for one am with you

The law is the law. If he's not fit, then there is no trial. If there's no trial, there's no evidence to present.

It is circular reasoning for your detractors to say that he is entitled to the evidence to defend himself, since he isn't in a position to have to defend himself. If he ends up in that position, then the question can be answered.

[EFerrari]

28. What reason do you have to believe that his attorneys don't have to prepare

for his competency hearing?

[hmorehead]

26. bin al Shibh may not be mentaly ill

but Col Stephen Henley is and the idea that military tribunals can mete out is crazy. The military is to justice what military is to music.