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Minneapolis, MN's Rosemary Williams, Evicted yesterday, neighbors and activist now Squatting

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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:34 AM
Original message
Minneapolis, MN's Rosemary Williams, Evicted yesterday, neighbors and activist now Squatting
Source: Local Fox 9 News

MINNEAPOLIS - Dozens of people gathered outside 3138 Clinton Ave. S. in Minneapolis on Friday afternoon to protest the eviction of Rosemary Williams.

Williams has lived in the Central neighborhood in Minneapolis for 55 years, but she defaulted on her mortgage after she lost her job. Williams mortgage went from $1,200 to $2,200 in one year.

Friday afternoon, Williams was officially evicted from her home. Three Hennepin County sheriff's deputies removed her from the home and the bank had the locks changed.

About 50 protesters broke into the house Friday to help Williams retrieve her property locked inside. The protesters remained on the property Friday evening, which is officially trespassing.

Read more: http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/Rosemary_Willia...



fter months of fighting for her home of many decades, Rosemary Williams is being
evicted at this moment, 2:15pm, Friday Aug. 7, by the Hennepin County Sheriffs
Department. While the Sheriff's office has locked Rosemarys belongings in her home,
and Rosemary is sits weeping on the front lawn, the community has mobilized to
demonstrate and stop this eviction.

The Minnesota Poor Peoples Economic Human Rights Campaign and the Coalition for a
Peoples Bailout have been organizing in the community to resist this and other
evictions for months. Both organizations and other community members have vowed to
use civil disobedience to save Rosemarys home. Scores of supporters have assembled
at 3138 Clinton Ave. South.

This eviction is taking place despite this community mobilization and the support of
Councilwoman Elizabeth Glidden. Last week's offer of an arrangement to save her
home by a local community development corporation was withdrawn in an unexplained
move.

The Sheriffs department surprised Rosemary by beginning the eviction today rather
than Monday as they previously communicated to Rosemary.

No more evictions, no more foreclosures! Housing is a Human Right!

4 PM Friday: Approximately eight Hennepin County sheriff's deputies unexpectedly arrived at Rosemary Williams' home at 3128 Clinton Avenue around 2pm this afternoon, accompanied by four men presumably representing GMAC Mortgage.

All took photos of the inside of the house and garage; deputies installed a new lock on the garage and posted "no trespassing" notices on all doors.

They ordered supporters to leave the property, but did not enforce their order.

After some activists sat down on the front porch locking arms, one deputy pulled out his can of chemical spray.

Soon thereafter, however, all the sheriffs and GMAC representatives left the property in their unmarked vehicles, leaving the gathered supporters to wonder what will happen next.


6:30PM Update: Police squad cars have been doing drive-bys at Rosemary's house; many supporters still remain there.

(I was able to be there from 6pm to 8pm, I will go back in about 1hr to stay and give some support)
(there was a mixture of people and about 20-30 people while I was there, FOX 9 also camped out)

8:15PM Update: Reports are that councilwoman Glidden spoke to a city inspector who claimed that no action would be taken tonight; however, Glidden was also told that no eviction attempt would occur today, just one hour before the sheriffs came. Rosemary Williams is apparently staying at a neighbor's house tonight; beginning early Saturday, help is needed particularly in the form of vans and people to help move belongings.

More people still needed so come if you can!

**** there are 1000's of people being kicked out of their homes in MN.

Rosemary is bravely taking stand and represents many.

SOME CALLS TO MAKE:
Call GMAC in the Twin Cities and the national headquarters.
Twin Cities: 952-806-9705
GMAC Headquarters: 215-734-8899
Tell them to retract the writ of recovery and let Rosemary try to save her home. She has been desperately trying to get financing to save her home, a process that takes time.

Call Fraegre and Benson: GMAC is represented by the law firm of Fraegre and Benson.
Rosemary asks that you call them at 612-766-7000 and tell them to undo the Writ of Recovery on Rosemarys home.

Call these elected officials
Mayor RT Rybak: 612-673-2100
U.S. Rep. Keith Ellison: 202-225-4755
U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar: 202-224-3244
U.S. Sen. Al Franken: 202-224-5641

Demand that they call GMAC and order GMAC to retract the writ of recovery. Banks got billions of dollars in bailout money. Now is their chance to help the people who the banks screwed over.

Rosemary Williams is a 55-year resident of the Central Neighborhood in south Minneapolis. Rosemary has been a fighter against the foreclosure crisis for nearly a year, giving inspiration to others to fight back. Now is the time for all the community to show support. Clear your calendars and take a stand!
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm happy to see this kind of resistance, and I wish
I were in MN to help!!!
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. This sentence says it all:
Banks got billions of dollars in bailout money. Now is their chance to help the people who the banks screwed over.

K&R

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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. +7
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. another Foreclose story from the twincities. Not a good ending
My friend just heard of Rosemary being evicted and she emailed this to me.
She lives here in the Twin cities. How come this doesn't make the news?

..". about a month ago my neighbor -began having garage sales every weekend. Then my daughter noticed his garage sale changed to an Estate Sale. Then one day I woke up to a swat team in flak jacket with an automatic rifle (or submachine gun?) and police with drawn guns surrounding the house of the neighbor They soon came out with guns down and paramedics walked in with gloves on; then a little later a hearse pulled up. Last week I heard the doorbell late at night. A woman was standing there who identified herself as the neighbor's old girlfriend. She said she needed to talk to someone who had been around the neighbor--who had seen him. she knew he had shot himself; he had told her that he was going to lose his house and he didn't want to end up under a bridge. "


I found out more this morning from my friend:

" The man had lost his job (he had a trade--had been a tool-and-dye machinist--something his surviving family may have been proud of because it was one of the few things mentioned in the obit). The old girlfriend said that he had been an alcoholic for many years. We heard neighbors say that he had been in VietNam and had problems due to being exposed to Agent Orange.

He had had a flag drapped completely covering one window as a curtain. That flag was pulled back for the first time when the police came for the last time--the police had pulled it back. Before the police came the guy had posted a sign on the door that said, "Keep Away!"

Also, the day all this happened my daughter had gone outside with one of her children to because he wanted to see the construction on the street. City workers were working on sewers and digging things up--a source of fascination to a four-year-old. She didn't know anything. Then she saw all the police cars pulled up and a policeman jumped out of one car and asked to borrow a sledge hammer from one of the construction workers, and told her to take her child and get away.

She immediately scooped up her kids and took them into the house in case there was shooting when the police went in. I peeked out a window, partially from behind an interior wall and saw the police bang down the door.

Neighbors used to call the police on him prior to this because his TV was so loud in the early hours of the morning that you could actually hear the dialogue, word for word, resounding through the block of the movie or program that was on. No one could sleep. Two days before he died, he tried to come inside my gate very drunk and almost falling over--a couple of young guys who were working on my yard told him to leave--"You're trespassing," they said, and his friend escorted me to my car.

I had to leave but they told me he came back later and they had a firm but friendly conversation with him. I don't know if he owned the house. I heard rumors that he had once owned the house, had sold it and was renting it back. Or it may have been that he was just renting and had never owned it and couldn't pay the rent.

We felt so sorry for him when he was selling his belongings, as it was obvious what was happening. When he was drunk (which was always) he used to leave presents on our door--a dormant Easter lily, a molded glass angel, a can of soup. A day before he died some people came and appeared to be bringing food in to him.

At any rate, it is evident that there is no adequate social safety net--for the messed up war veterans which our militarized society creates, not for people who have problems, not for people who lose their jobs, not for anyone who experiences misfortune. When the hearse pulled up that day, my daughter went out into her yard and a policeman told her, "Your family is safe now, ma'am." But I really wonder: how safe is any family now?


We need to reach out to your neighbors. I know this happened in another state, but I wonder how many time this has happened here?

As news is covering the riots at townhall meetings, cats stuck up in trees, obama's birth certificats.. etc. america is dying
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. a sad, sad story
In America, if you don't have money, you are done. Nobody wants anything to do with you. It's like you're a pariah and yes, shooting yourself is one of the few options.


Cher
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. Wow! I am so glad people are fighting back! There's hope for America yet!
"Do not go gently into that good night--
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!"

--Dylan Thomas
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. So she's lived there 55 years and has a mortgage?
:shrug:
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. That is interesting. nt
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Probably was one of those refis people were talked into to do refurbish the house...
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 11:10 AM by cascadiance
... or to take care of other debts she might have had if she was unemployed... A LOT of these foreclosures around the country were just these sort of predatory loans, not loans that people got for "buying a house they shouldn't have".
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. So where is the cash?
If she cashed out her equity then the cash had to go somewhere.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Paying bills...
If she's unemployed, there goes the income she used to have to pay other every day bills. If she originally cashed out some equity to refurbish her house (which if it is that old probably needed a LOT of money to fix up). If she had some big medical expenses, there goes some more. And when you have the predatory lenders with her interest rates getting jacked up, a big chunk of unanticipated expense was paying back interest itself for the loan.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Using your house as a magical ATM....
can lead to foreclosure. You reap what you sow.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Two things were likely unexpected... Maybe more.
One, I don't think she was expecting to be unemployed when she got the loan (as most people aren't these days when they take out a home loan).

Second, I don't think she expected the interest rates to be jacked up as much as they were, as they are with so many of the predatory loans that are out there these days and which are often misrepresented to the person taking out the loan.

And if she had health conditions and medical bills, that would have also been a problem.

You can call it an ATM, but if she originally was employed, healthy, and felt that the person giving her the loan was honest, and her house needed a big set of repairs, I would have thought that might have been a proper way to use a refi loan then.

If she got unemployed afterward, had other unexpected bills from medical issues, etc., then perhaps she didn't have the income and other resources she would have normally had to pay down this loan. That's not using it as an ATM. That's called prioritizing where you are spending your money in a time of crisis.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. More details definitely need to be known...
that is for sure.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
67.  Absolutely, Otherwise, many people
"More details definitely need to be known..."

Absolutely, Otherwise, many people will start with the 'reap what you sow...' comments.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
51. That is likely.
I worked in this neighborhood for about 5 years in a community organization. The homes in this neighborhood are a century old and many were in need of repair at that time which was 20 years ago.

I drove close by where her home is a few weeks ago and was surprised by the amount of renovations and upgrades to the homes. I think a lot of people re-fi'd to do these upgrades which would be a timely investment considering the homes' age and the availability of low interest credit. But I'm sure some got suckered into these disgusting ARM loans. No one should have been directed to an ARM in the past decade (or ever in my opinion). Interest rates were and are at an all time low and all loans should have been fixed.
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. It isn't hard to figure out, even if she is only 55
Many people refianced for cash out.

Some people bought the homes their parents owned. or that they rented.


Many people were talked into refinancing to take cash out to pay off debt or to cover medical bills, kids goign to college, very need home repairs. and all over the news, marketing, books etc.. it was said that don't work.. you can always sell or refiance before the loan adjusts.. it is a great sound investment. There were many, many, many brokers who were not ethical (which has devistated those who are) and at times criminal and they took the money and ran.. they had no regulations, no oversite.




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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'll ask this one question...
Where is the cash? If she was originally paying 1000$ a month before the adjustment, she must've taken a TON of cash out.
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. I have no idea, maybe you could write her to find out
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 11:38 AM by annm4peace
What I don't understand why so many banks won't modify. they must have bigger profit from it going to full foreclosure and auction than to modify.. they must get a big tax write off.

There were several foreclosures on her block in 1 year.. 7 A person can't tell me that there isn't predatory lending going on and lenders innocent in all of these. Look at their profits.

(I'm just estimating the #, I don't know the actual #s)

Lets say her mortgage was for 200,000. and her initial monthly pay was interest only and an ARM

Payment was 1200 and then adjusted in 5th year to 2200.
At her place of work, the director has embezzled from the agency, and he is arrested and jailed, but everyone is immediately out of work.
She loses her job. Because she doesn't have a job right way, she can't refinance to a better product and rate, and then she gets a job, but now the markets have declined and she can't refinance.
She is stuck. as are 100 of thousands of people.

So GMAC can not seem to modify to help her at least still pay off their loan or at least some of it.

Instead they would rather it go to auction and maybe, just maybe it would sell for 50,000. (it is in a poor area, but a very nice house as are some others..they have tried to keep them up and looking nice although not fancy) I was there for several hours last night and she has kept a beautiful house and yard. The houses in this area could be 70-100 years old, with small porches on the front.
there are many rentals in the area that are not kept up and there is drug activity in the near by busy street.

so if GMAC could have lowered her payment to 1000/month. that would be more than what auction it off at 70,000 or 50,000 and then on

so the loan that started at 200,000 is auctioned for 50,000 a 150,000 loss and on top of that 74,000 for the foreclosure process, and on top of that the legal fees (have no idea).

So GMAC has loss 224,000 and more.. and if they would have modified they probably could have kept the loss at 100,000 at the most.

That is why I have to try and do what I can because I know there are 100's of thousands of people like Rosemary and the man who killed himself when he was foreclosed on



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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. If she can't afford ANY payment...
then what is the point of modifying? It is likely she would not qualify for a HMP or HASP mod.
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. she has a job and her son and family moved into the home
to try and help out with the payment.

This went to trial and court so I would think GMAC tried the FED's programs that the could.

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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Then it is likely...
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 11:47 AM by WriteDown
that even with the job and family that her debt to income is still too high. That is what most modifications are based off of, sustainability. I believe the Obama plan allows interest to go as low as 1% for 5 years, but DTI has to be brought to at least 38%.
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. not many people qualify for these loans
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Daemonaquila Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. This is a silly, blame-the-victim thread
First off, until 3 years ago when I moved out of state, I was a Central neighborhood resident for 10 years and was a board member of the local community organization WITH ROSEMARY some of that time. Central is a growing, improving, and still troubled inner city neighborhood. There is no mystery about where the funds would have gone. Virtually every homeowner in Central who hasn't been living hand-to-mouth has had to put a bunch of cash into his or her home. They're pretty much all 100+ years old, the neighborhood/homes used to be in really awful shape and has gotten into much better shape thanks to the hard work of residents, it's a cold and nasty climate so repairs/renovations to heating systems, roofs, windows, etc. is more frequent and more expensive than in many parts of the country, and so on.

I find it in very poor taste that someone who has been a pillar of the community, a working person who hasn't had a shady financial past, and has worked her ass off FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD and economic justice, now has people raising the spectre of financial incompetence/mismanagement thrown at her because - oh noes! - she lost her job in this horrible economy and now she can't pay her mortgage... like tens of thousands of people across the country.

What, she should've known some years ago that someday she might lose her job, so she shouldn't have borrowed money against her home? Puhleeze! This ranks right up there with "She wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't been wearing a short skirt." It's disgusting.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. If you can't afford a 100 year old property's maintenance....
then you need to sell. I'm sorry about that. My house was built in 1943 and maintenance, utility bills, etc. are out of this world. That is why I opted to buy a house that was about half what I could afford. When my grandparents went onto a fixed income (and after they were robbed and beaten in Arverne) we downsized them into a condo in Columbus.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Why are you even here? nt
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #33
76. sell to whom, exactly?
you don't know what the woman's total situation is, how much money she took out, why she took it out, or what she was told by the mortgage broker when she made the loan.

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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Well, obviously she didn't go out and blow it on bric-a-brac.
My guess is she used the money to supplement her income which has been stagnant for 30 of those 55 years.

Buying food and energy?

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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. I thought that also - she most likely had a 30 year loan and bought
the house at the prices then. Think how much money the lender has made off her loan. I want them to make this foreclosure an object lesson in resistance.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Depends...
She could have cashed out with a new mortgage in the last 5-10 years. If that is the case, then the lender lost a ton of money.
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. And then if this happens to your neighbor or several neighbors
you might find your block of rentals
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That's my neigbohood to some extent....
Its mostly Hispanic and about 1/4 of the houses are rentals.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Ahh, yes, you again. The tireless champion of the strong
against the weak and/or those suffering misfortune. It never fails.

As for the lender, fuck 'em. Maybe they should've been much more careful about who they lent money to. As a former real estate paralegal, I saw plenty of lenders who were falling all over themselves to throw money at people who could ill afford it and who couldn't easily pay the required amounts. The no-down mortgages were the worst. It's their own damned fault if they lost money. Boo-fucking-hoo. They also had a responsibility they didn't fulfill. Funny how no one seems to hold THEM accountable.

As for your bleating demands of "where's the cash?" Oh, I dunno, maybe it went to astronomical medical bills, even a moderate illness can suck up tens of thousands of dollars, even with insurance. Or maybe it went to pay bills after she lost her job and couldn't find another one. It's a lot harder for older people to find jobs than younger ones, believe me. But the bills don't stop just because you no longer have a job, far from it. As mean-spirited and judgmental as you are toward anyone with any misfortune, I sure hope things like that never happen to you. Because I know, from the experience of my parents, two hard-working responsible people who had to use all they'd worked for and accumulated for retirement for his unexpected development of dementia in only his late fifties, that it ain't fun or pretty at all.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Your post lacks logic...
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 08:52 PM by WriteDown
Lenders were anxious to lend money to those who couldn't pay? I'll let you think about that one for a while.

We have no idea what the situation is here. All we know is that she should've paid off her original mortgage long ago. Perhaps she cashed out to pay a sister's cancer bills. Perhaps she cashed out to buy her grandson a boat. There is a big difference though.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. They were more than anxious to lend money to people of whom
they did not require any income or asset documentation whatsoever and of whom they did not require any down payment. Such "no doc" loans as they were known were a prime type of subprime loans. They also couldn't wait to lend money to people with shaky, spotty or no credit. This is a documented fact and one of the major reasons for the subprime meltdown. I sat in on a lot of such closings, where it was quite obvious that the buyer might not be able to meet the terms. A major reason for such eagerness on the part of lenders, as on the part of many borrowers as well, was plain and simple GREED. They could charge much more to subprime consumers, in terms of interest and fees, and all they saw were the dollar signs and not the potential trouble signs, just like many borrowers.

Figures that you wouldn't even consider that the lenders might just be a teensy bit at fault. Oh, no, in your world, it's always the consumer and the little guy, and never the poor, put-upon business.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. If you were in these "closed meetings"
as you say then you know that you are talking about mortgage originators and not servicers. This is a fundamental difference. Like I said previously, could be cancer, could be boat. There is a difference.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I said closING meetings, not clOSED meetings.
There is a difference, you know. And the closing meetings to finalize sales were with reps of the LENDERS, who were all too eager to sign the papers, even for "no-doc" and subprime loans. They had many predatory practices that were truly disgusting. And it figures that you have no problem defending them and not holding them accountable in the least.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Regardless....
It takes two to sign papers. I have never seen anyone MADE to sign a mortgage note, nor a car note. Especially a home equity loan. Today's society seems to have forgotten what it means to live within one's means. J
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. True enough. But how fascinating that you put ALL the blame
and accountability on the borrower and NONE on the lender, which had just as much, if not more, responsiblity. You can't neglect due diligence in giving someone a several hundred thousand dollar mortgage, charge horrendous interest rates that you have good reason to believe they won't be able to keep up with, not require any proof of income or any other such documents, and not require any money down (and no-money-down mortgages are especially and unbelievably STUPID to give), then sit back and whine over the predictable results and not expect to be held accountable as well. It's just as much, if not more, then lender's fault. Funny how you want to leave them totally off the hook when they bear an equal share of responsibility with the borrower.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. How is asking questions assigning blame?
I guess we should never ask any questions. Please feel free to point out where I assigned blame. I believe this is an I/O loan so if the interest rate was 7% then we're talking about 200K If it was 5% it was 250k. We're talking about sizable amounts of money here. I'm just asking for more details.
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
44. AMen, LiberalHistorian...You are SO VERY RIGHT!!!!
Ever heard of a Ninja loan, (no Income, No Job, No assets)? They were based on the fact that thehome could be refinanced every year to live off of the cash. I couldn't believe my ears at first and then found out that there was such a thing. Lots of these lenders put themselves in this situation.
:applause:
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. They didn't give a fuck if they were paid back.
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 10:49 PM by sudopod
They were selling mortgages hand over fist as on the market as mortgage-backed securities, where it became Not Their Fucking Problem. The uncoupling of people's ability to pay off mortgages and banks' willingness to exploit their need in order to sell high-risk high-interest securities is where this whole fucking crisis started.

"Your post lacks logic" That's rich.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Bingo. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
And that particular poster has a lot of such "rich" postings, believe me.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. So lenders...
sold mortgages? And who bought them? If a house decreases in value like say in California, should a person still be responsible for the debt? :shrug:
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Thats the punchline
They were bundled into "tranches" of securities based on their expected return and risk of default and sold to various brokerages, who in turn sold them to unwitting investors straight or in bizarrely complicated, mixed, and matched packages so no one knew who owed what where. Of course, the banks didn't give a damn because THEY GOT THEIRS. Well, they did till they triggered Great Depression II with their fuckwittery.

Tell me this isn't news to you, FFS.

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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. Yes, the lenders, originators and all the rest of the complicated claptrap
that was invented to obfuscate and confuse, are nothing but gamblers. The gamblers got bailed out by the government. Real people and real property are being destroyed minute by minute by this goddamned forest fire of incompetence, short-sightedness, and unadulterated greed.

The difference is, in a forest fire, everyone pitches in to put out the flames and help people start again.

Here, the fucking arsonists at Goldman and others are already reaping record "profits" from their welfare payments from those they burned up, and they're getting ready to do more.

Thank gawd I have not banked in any way nor been connected to any financial company in any way for 25 years.

You wouldn't let your kids play with rabid dogs, either. Keep them and yourself away from financial institutions until someone finally comes to put them down. I always feel sorry for rabid dogs; they didn't do it to themselves. But these financial fuckers just keep doing it and doing it and doing it and doing it...
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. But aren't you a slumlord?
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 12:10 PM by WriteDown
From your previous posts, it sounds like you make quite a bit of money off other people's necessities, namely a roof over their heads. I'm sure you get a tidy tax benefit from those properties as well. Sounds parasitic. :)
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. Well, let's see. We do own a few dozen properties, none of which were
ever mortgaged to a bank or other credit institution. They rent month to month, no lease, no application fees, all bills paid.

We also never raise the rent during continuous occupancy, so we tend to get rather loyal tenants who help take care of the property, look out for each other, and that sort of thing. The one page rental agreement we have specifies getting along with your neighbors as one of the conditions of living here. Our annual turnover rate is right at 10%.

I teach, my wife is a psychologist in private practice, we own the rentals, we have a couple of boutiques located in other cities. We're comfortable; we have time to spend with our grandchildren. We just came back from a ten day camping trip to Louisiana, where we visited the alligators in St. Martin Parish, ate great gumbo at the Atchafalaya Cafe in Morgan City, the Mansfield battle site and other things with our granddaughter.

Tax benefits? Yep; when the big beasties write these things in, they cannot really exclude others. So sad for them.

We provide valuable services for others, we have some tenants who have been with us for 7 years, life is good.

And we never ever let anyone manage our assets or our money for us. We own real things, no shit like CDs, stocks, blah, blah. Our brains were good enough to make it; it's really quite unreal that we would ever trust a stranger whose job is to talk you out of part of your money in return for keeping hold of the rest of it.


Too much personal detail. Sorry.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. So you're making a comfortable living...
off other people who are not as fortunate? :)
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #64
72. No, many of the taxpayers in this district are many times wealthier
than I am. Turns out they're exploiting the brains of someone better educated, but poorer.

That's practically slavery! I'm the victim here!
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #72
75. Haha...
I feel you there. :)
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. So now the investors are unwitting as well as the borrowers...
Sheesh.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Yes. It's called being conned.
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 12:56 PM by Hansel
Pawned is a good word too.













Edited
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Oddly enough...
I never played 3 card monte when growing up in NYC. And I never sent any money to my royal friends in Nigeria.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. But, unfortunately, many investors were had in the mortgage scandal.
That's who I was talking about. Sorry if you thought I meant you personally.

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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Investors need to carry out due diligence...
I am always amazed by those that throw their money at bad investments. Interestingly enough, this is only half the story though. A lot of the current turmoil is due to property prices crashing in places like CA, FL, and NV with a lot of the original elevation in prices due to house flipping.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. how many of them know how?
I am glad that you feel competent to handle the market, investing, home ownership, etc. Clearly you are in the upper percentile in education, intellegence, and common sense. What about those who are not? Those who, say, work welding truck bits together, and have just enough energy when they come home to help cook dinner, before falling down to sleep and start over tomorrow. Those who did not manage to finish highschool, or learn anything about "finance".

Your libertarian BS is tiring. Your questions are not meant as questions, and your thoughts lack any hint of compassion. Personal responsibility is important. But this pretending that everyone is above average and can handle the unprotected marketplace is a fools refuge.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. The solution is obviously aptitude or literary tests...
before you are allowed to sign any legal documents or own property. :eyes:
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Or some sort of protections
that might could work too. You know, Requiring that the corporate side of these things do due diligence as well, and requiring that contracts be simple enough that a normal person with a high school equivalent could understand them. Little things like that. Oh, yeah, and actually educating youth, that could help as well.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Simple contracts lead to lawsuits....
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 07:26 PM by WriteDown
that is why contracts are wordy. They specify every detail. You would have to accompany that with a written promise not to sue, but a good lawyer can get past that too.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Iow, illiterate people should not own property?
Soon you'll be recommending that people who don't own property should not vote. :eyes:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #55
73. But you did 'downsize' your grandparents.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. People who trusted that they weren't being screwed.
That's who. The mortgage lenders are suppose to be the experts. When you get a home loan you get pamphlets and dozens of documents that assure you that the government is looking out to make sure that the lender is operating on a legal footing. So you trust that these people are doing the right thing.

The average person is not a financial expert. They want a home and the American dream. And lenders are fully armed with billions of dollars in marketing and advertisement to make sure people act on that. When a mortgage consultant who advertises as being there for the customers tells them they can afford the home they believe it. They also believe that whatever they are hearing from the mortgage consultant is backed up by the government documents, that they are protected, and the lender can't cheat them. Buying a home is emotional as much as logical and the lenders count on that and know how to manipulate it. Lenders have an additional advantage that they are not working from emotion.

Stop acting like the mortgage lender, who is there to make money, has powerful financial backing from the experts to do so, are pretending that they are there for the customer and who has years, maybe decades of experience with mortgage loans = a person buying or refinancing a home. Most of us are just a little smarter than that.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. What about cars?
Is the average person an automotive expert. Seems like everyone should have attorney when signing a car note. I would hope that most people are smart enough to be very careful when taking on 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars of debt. If not then we are really in trouble.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Just one right wing talking point after another aren't you?
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 01:02 PM by Hansel
We're talking about homes. Try to stay on topic.

What you like to think and what reality is are two different things. That's why corporations spend 100s of billions of dollars in marketing and advertising. To get people to make irrational decisions when they spend their money. If it didn't work, they wouldn't do it.

Even in buying a car, since you brought it up, the customer <> the seller.






Edit for spelling
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. We're talking about money...
Try to stay on topic. Sounds like most people are stupid and should consult an attorney before making any financial decisions. Luckily, no attorneys are dishonest.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Many, if not most, people are not very sophisticated about money.
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 01:32 PM by Hansel
It's not being stupid. And lenders count on it.

You are talking about money. Most of the rest of us are talking about a woman who has lost her home. Try approaching it from that side for just one second.

I know about money and finances. I have worked in the financial industry for over 20 years. I have worked in credit card, investments and financial planning. I can tell you from that experience that there are a lot of people out there who are woefully unsophisticated when it comes to money, but they still have to live. I also can tell you that there are plenty of people out there that are loaded for bear to take advantage of this.

My point is that the average individual borrower is at a significant disadvantage when it comes to making major financial investments of any kind. It doesn't mean that all lenders are crooks and that some people are not quite sophisticated. But as a whole, lenders have the advantage in terms of knowledge. Unfortunately, with all of the deregulation of the financial industry, the attraction of easy money to less than savory characters has resulted in crooks being attracted to the work in these institutions. Not all of them are crooks, but some are. Those that are have reeked serious devastation on the institutions themselves and vulnerable individuals.


Edit for spelling
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Bringing us back to the old adage...
A fool and his money are soon parted.

I'm not approaching it from any side. I just asked a single question.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. I find that "ignored" is always just one RW talking point after another
Eventually everyone named "ignored" outs themselves enough to get TSed.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Strange....
Considering you asked the SAME exact question in post 62 that I asked. Must make you a right-wing fatcat. :eyes:
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks for the updates.
:kick:
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. Well that was stinky of them. Poop on my City. Poop on the system that is not
figuring out a way to keep people in their homes.
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. the revolution will not be televised!!!
it will not be brought to you by proctor & gamble!
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
45. Action still needed CALL CEO of GMAC
The local community continues to occupy Rosemary's home. We are teachers, office workers, nurses, nurse's aid, law students, mothers, fathers, retired grandparents, students, laid off workers, social worker, and a mortgage processor. We are her neighbors and activists.


Keep Rosemary Williams in Her Home!
Demand that GMAC Come to the Table!

Minneapolis, MN

Rosemary Williams, a 55 year resident of Central Neighborhood, who has stood at the forefront of the fight against foreclosures, was evicted from her home on Friday August 7th.

One hour later, her home was reopened and an around-the-clock sit-in is now taking place.

* There is a foreclosure crisis in the U.S. **


While GMAC is busy foreclosing and evicting people from their homes, the CEO of GMAC raked in over $11 million for his role as the CEO in 2008. how much in bonus did other executives and vp's make at GMAC this year ?

Rosemary Williams, her neighbors and friends, are taking a stand for justice in our communities.

Call GMAC and tell them to come to the table and negotiate a fair and equitable solution that keeps Rosemary in her home.


Call the headquarters of GMAC and demand to speak to the CEO, Alvaro de Molina at:

215-734-8899


Please join us in this vital campaign!
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
47. They would be welcomed to move to Detroit if they would fix up a "fixer upper"
the future of Minneapolis already present in the zones of metro Detroit
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=479_1249774626

it is what it is
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
62. How did she live there for 55 years and still have a mortgage?
Or did I miss something? How much was left on her mortgage? It can't have been a huge amount unless she had taken out second and third mortgages. Maybe a fundraiser is in order? Predatory lending practices MUST be ended--and that SHOULD have been a condition for the bank bailout. It's insane that anyone should have their mortgage nearly double like that!

I swear, banks are in such a greed driven frenzy that they'll do all they can to FORCE foreclosures on homes that have mostly been paid off, just so they can seize them and sell them to turn a huge profit. ENOUGH ALREADY!
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