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Limits on Logging in Old-Growth Forest Reinstated (had to post after Tongass thread)

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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:17 PM
Original message
Limits on Logging in Old-Growth Forest Reinstated (had to post after Tongass thread)
Source: New York Times

In a move to protect endangered species, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar announced Thursday that his department had reversed a Bush administration decision to double the amount of logging allowed in and around old-growth forests in western Oregon.

Veering between swipes at indefensible moves by the Bush administration and pledges to step up noncontroversial timber sales, Mr. Salazar said in a conference call with reporters that he was reinstating a compromise reached 15 years ago to limit logging with the goal of protecting watersheds, trout and salmon fisheries and endangered birds like the spotted owl.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/science/earth/17fores...



I know the Tongass move has angered many progressives but I am apt to try and understand a balance that is kept. It is unfair to put Obama in the same league or even close to the Bush administration.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is good but we're still losing ground by taking one step forward for every two back with each
alternating administration.

"Tom Partin, president of the American Forest Resource Council, expressed frustration with the reversal. Oregon is facing double-digit unemployment, he said in a statement. Opening up logging under the Bush administrations plan would have given our timber-dependent communities a real boost, he said."

Tom Partin should speak with the fisherman; that have went out of business because there are no more fish where they used to be in abundance and fish replace themselves a hell of a lot quicker than old growth forests.

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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Trees have essentially run out, if we want to keep the tiny amount of old growth forest remainingfor
future generations.
Loggers should have been retraining over the last 15 years - the writing has been on the wall. There has been funding for such retraining.

And the American Forest Resource Council needs to find another purpose, or Tom Partin needs to retrain as well.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. On No, connecting two related things is not in the best interest of Big Timber.
Fish dependent on undamaged Watershed? Many scientist on our payroll disagree, or it is bad on Bad Science, because it comes from a poorly funded, concerned group instead of the deep pocketed Timber lobby.

The Same old "Man has a right to consume every last morsel and kill himself" argument.
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xochi Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks so much for posting this!
I, too, am highly distressed about the Tongass decision, and I appreciate very much your attempt to restore some perspective and sanity. I especially agree with your last couple of sentences. For progressives to become too disheartened or disillusioned--to the point of paralysis or worse--would not be good for this planet.

"I have striven not to laugh at human actions, not to weep at them, nor to hate them, but to understand them."
--Baruch Spinoza
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Virgin forests cannot be replaced.Opening Tongass is inexcusable.
The environmental crimes and harm done during the Bush and to a lesser extent Clinton admins require, just to get to a point where real recovery can start, that environmental regulations be stiffened and enforced to a degree never seen before and that even some enviros will see as extreme. But we're killing ourselves. I know that's hard for folks who ain't bleeding to death to grasp, but it's the rock hard honest truth.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. The irony abounds. First, Tongass has already been "opened."
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 08:33 PM by Robb
It took me ten seconds to look up, 70% of the old growth in Tongass has already been logged.

Second, this logging approval came from the USFS in 1999. Under Clinton. Who then apparently helped get Tongass included in the roadless initiative in 2001, which was challenged by Bush and anyone who could recognize what a road looked like (there are many in Tongass) as flawed policy.

2006 saw the repeal of the roadless rule, which IMO was too weak anyhow, but little jumped up in its place -- and Tongass was exempt from the repeal anyhow. The House, and everyone in the lower 48, jumped in in 2007.

The irony: nothing happened there, logging-wise, under Bush.

The remaining old-growth forests should be protected, but (a) the "roadless" will never work, as there are too many roads, and (b) Wilderness designations will never fly, because of the language in the Wilderness Act.

So "opening Tongass is inexcusable" isn't really a statement worth making. But clearly these forests need protection -- which none of our existing framework will provide.

Edited to complete my thought: Salazar is making a good move here. This protection is needed, and will work in many areas that cannot be protected in any other way.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. RE:Opening the Tongass
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 09:29 PM by nosmokes
I don't knos about you, but every time you start dozing and grading in virgin forests you're opening it up, and that's exactly what they're doing and it doesn't make any sense, environmentally or economically.

I'm sorry but Obama *CAN* make mistakes, and putting the foxes in charge of the hen-houses was wrong when Bush did it and it's just as wrong when Obama does it, if not more so because of his campaign positions.

Jobs Trump Conservation

KETCHIKAN, Alaska, July 16, 2009 (ENS) - In a roadless area of Alaska's Tongass National Forest, the U.S. Forest Service has awarded the first timber sale under the new so-called Vilsack policy. Due to a series of lawsuits and conflicting court orders on the Roadless Rule, Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack announced in May that he would personally review and approve timber sales in roadless areas across the nation.

The Orion North timber sale awarded Monday to Pacific Log and Lumber of Ketchikan will produce some 3.8 million board feet of timber from 381 acres in Thorne Arm on Revillagigedo Island near Ketchikan.

Roughly two miles of roads will be constructed to facilitate the harvest of timber for the sale, which is adjacent to Misty Fjords National Monument.

In March, a coalition of five conservation groups filed a lawsuit challenging the proposed timber sale. They object because the logging would clean lands in the last major intact, roadless watershed remaining on Thorne Arm. The groups point out that the watershed provides important old-growth habitat connecting Misty Fjords National Monument with the coastal habitat along Thorne Arm.
Trees on Revillagigedo Island (Photo by Jeffrey Beall)

"The day when this kind of timber sale made sense is long gone," said Carol Cairnes, president of the board of the Ketchikan-based Tongass Conservation Society. "Cutting these trees will not even bring in half the money the Forest Service will spend building a road to get to the trees."

"The rest of Thorne Arm has already been hammered with clearcuts," said Cairnes. People in Ketchikan use this last pristine area for fishing, hiking, and family outings. The trees have more value standing than they do cut."
~snip~
.
.
.
complete article at link above
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. And the "slippery slope" argument is the only one I've seen
...that makes any sense to be concerned about in Tongass, I agree. :hi:

That said, I, who grew to despise Salazar as my critter, am delighted with this move for Oregon. We used to joke he would do less harm in Interior, and it appears we were right. :D
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. If 70% of the old growth has been logged, that convinces me even more strongly
that we need to protect what is left.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. reinstating a Clinton-era "compromise" isn't going to cut it
I mean, it's better than ramped up destruction of these habitats, but unless we get some visionary leadership now, and not just sloganeering about "change," we're going to lose big chunks of the biosphere.

Which won't, you know, work out so well for us as a species.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. More token damage control as Obama loses another big chunk of his base
I am so through with going along with the herd for Obama. He has turned the corner, and he will no longer be able to find his way back to the place where he started from.

I get the feeling that this fact is of no concern for him, which worries me quite a bit. Becasue it means they realize that this is the point of no return, and a making the final move into fascism.

We all need to pay very close attention to this administration. Stardust isn't going to bring back our freedom, stop insane Military spending, ensure that GMO's are reigned in and studied, and the fraud that is called an economy is dismantled and rebuilt.

We are so screwed.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. one step sideways and ten steps backward....
Gee, that feels so "progressive."
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. THANK YOU!
I was despiritly looking for that - just heard in about 15 minutes ago on my way home on NPR...

kinda puts the damper on the Obama bitch fest in the OTHER thread, doesn't it!!!
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Unrec, just another token move to silence people much like the LGBT "benefits" order
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. 2.6 million acres is a token move?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. I live in Western Oregon. I'll take it n/t
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. Logging on public land depresses prices private landowners get for their timber
This isn't about saving logging jobs. It's about getting the timber on the cheap, ripping off the taxpayers who own it rather than paying a fair price to private landowners.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. An excellent point no one else has made. nt
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Bullshit! This is NOT OK! Obama is allowing old growth logging in Alaska instead.
Obama Administration Approves Logging In Largest U.S. Rain Forest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I remember a time when this kind of shit would have outraged DUers for days on end!

Well, FYI-Obama's actions don't help this planet one fucking bit and anyone who supports the crumbs he is throwing should be ashamed of themselves.

Gore must be kicking himself now for not running for prez in 2008!

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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. No.
Reading several news sources, I'm convinced this is actually rather typical DU drama.

Crumbs? "Crumbs" are 381 acres and six miles of new road in AK, IMO.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. So he adds protection for 2.6 million acres, allows logging in 381
and the collective reaction is take it as a sellout?
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yep. Welcome to DU. nt
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. .002% is being allowed to be cut in Tongass-
Fuax outrage...

This decision to reverse what chimpy did ( DOUBLE ) old-growth logging is HUGH! - but you won't see the same posters on this thread...
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. Feds throw back the WOPR
Source: Eugene Register-Guard

Legal challenges and an administration change ended an aggressive logging plan for some of Oregons public forests long before any trees came down.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar on Thursday withdrew the Bureau of Land Managements Western Oregon Plan Revision, which would have tripled the allowable timber harvest on 2.2 million acres of Western Oregon forests. Salazar called the management plan legally indefensible because it failed to follow federal environmental rules.

The Western Oregon Plan Revision took five years to write, cost the BLM $17.6 million and was the result of a legal settlement with the timber industry.

The Bush administration finalized it in late December 2008, and the lawsuits began in January.

Read more: http://registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityreg...
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. They'll be sorry.....
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Great minds think alike! n/t
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Darn! I thought this was going to be about "Wargames"!
Actually, I'm glad this is about a defeated logging plan.

:-)
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Cronopio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Sometimes the winning move is not to play. nt
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