U.S. Marines Launch Assault in Afghanistan

[Mari333]

Source: nytimes

LOWER HELMAND RIVER VALLEY, AFGHANISTAN, July 2 (Reuters) - U.S. Marines launched a helicopter assault early on Thursday in the lower Helmand river valley in southern Afghanistan, spokesman Capt. Bill Pelletier said.

A Reuters correspondent in the valley saw flares in the sky over the town of Nawa, south of the provincial capital Lashkar Gah.

The valley of irrigated wheat and opium fields along the Helmand river is largely in the hands of Taliban fighters who have resisted British-led NATO forces for years.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/07/01/world/interna...

[SharonAnn]

1. We were soldiers once . . . and young. The battle of Ia Drang.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. As an ex-1st Cav grunt, I shudder at that name.

Ia Drang.

[bbinacan]

5. I have a cousin,

helicopter pilot, who was mentioned in that book.

[subcomhd]

3. from other thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Mari333]

4. bring them all home. enough of this 'protect the pipeline' crap

http://www.alternet.org/world/139983/pipeline-istan:_ev... /

the deaths of our soldiers for oil are on Obamas head now.

[RollWithIt]

6. Ok, if we leave Afghanistan the Taliban retakes control

And we're back to pre 9-11. Not sure how that helps anything.

[Mari333]

7. who cares.

let them have their own country. we have no right to be there.
and show me a link proving the Taliban had anything to do with 9/11.

[One of Many]

11. Memory loss?

Bin Laden orchestrates 9/11 and is known to be in the the country run by the Taliban

When asked to turn him over or allow us to get him they reply, STFU

Nevermind the pure evil that is the Taliban's mantra and past actions against the people of Afghanistan

unreal

[Mari333]

18. show me a link that proves Bin Laden had anything to do with 9/11

and proves he is even alive.
show me a link with these facts. not hearsay, facts.
waiting....

oh and 15 of the 19 hijackers who flew on 9/11 were from SAUDI ARABIA.. yet, we kiss the arse of Saudi Arabia..

dont believe the FAUX news hype.

[conturnedpro09]

22. It doesn't matter that they came from Saudi Arabia

That's like saying Ireland was responsible for Timothy McVeigh.

The fact of the matter is that the Taliban harbored and supported bin Laden and al Qaeda. Oh, and the Taliban oppressed the shit out of their own people. I'm with Obama that this is a TOTALLY just war.

[Mari333]

24. you still havent provided me with a link

that proves that Bin Laden is alive, or that Bin Laden and the Taliban are responsible for 9/11. You seem awfully gung ho about sending other peoples kids to this to die horrible deaths, so until you come up with facts, you are speaking mere propoganda and heresay.
again, this occupation is about an oil pipeline. period. (lots of people in lots of countries are oppressed..like the people in Saudi Arabia are oppressed..its not our job to unoppress them)
oil

'As Barack Obama heads into his second hundred days in office, let's head for the big picture ourselves, the ultimate global plot line, the tumultuous rush towards a new, polycentric world order. In its first hundred days, the Obama presidency introduced us to a brand new acronym, OCO for Overseas Contingency Operations, formerly known as GWOT (as in Global War on Terror). Use either name, or anything else you want, and what you're really talking about is what's happening on the immense energy battlefield that extends from Iran to the Pacific Ocean. It's there that the Liquid War for the control of Eurasia takes place.

Yep, it all comes down to black gold and "blue gold" (natural gas), hydrocarbon wealth beyond compare, and so it's time to trek back to that ever-flowing wonderland -- Pipelineistan.'
http://www.alternet.org/world/139983/pipeline-istan:_ev... /

dont believe Faux news.

[One of Many]

45. Show me

The evidence that he's dead and AQ has taken to basket weaving and drum circles. Meanwhile you might try checking the interwebs: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8096552.stm

You can do your own damn research from here on, possibly.

Re: being gun-ho about sending people in harm's way or warmongering, go pound sand. You don't know the first thing about me, take your screeching points elsewhere.

If we're after a pipeline, why did we let AF rot for so many years after the Russians pulled out?

Lastly, conflicts are nearly always based on real or perceived lack of resources. Let's try shutting down all the oil taps and see how long it takes you to start screaming that you cant get to the local black helicopter watchers meeting because evil corporations turned off the faucet and took your job away when production and transportation grind to a halt.

I assume by your standards we should allow pirates free reign lest we have a war for sea water? Better yet maybe we should allow thugs in your area to run amok in your house rather than have a war for a poorly color-coordinated living room?

[Mari333]

51. go pound sand eh?

at least you are admitting its about oil.

[Hannah Bell]

127. bhutto said he's dead. then she was assassinated.

[HamdenRice]

95. Are you a no-planer, space ray type also? You guys give 9/11 research a bad name

Here's a link:

cooperativeresearch.org

Read it and learn about the actual connections between state and non-state actors.

[Alamuti Lotus]

34. funny (not 'funny hah hah', mind you) how most of the hijackers came from US puppet dictatorships

plotted by an Egyptian in Germany backed with Saudi footsoldiers -- sure, let's wipe out anything in the South Helmand valley over that. Maybe they'll even find the Ho Chi Minh Trail over there, while they're at it. Some people really don't need too much convincing to get a boner over their video game wars, eh?

[saigon68]

101. The Ho Chi Minh Trail--- lol

Seen that what a place!!!! NOTE: Bombing the fuck out of it for 8 years sure won my war </sarcasm>

The fact that every one who has come into afghanistan in the last 200 years have gotten their asses kicked sooner or later.

Is lost on the present batch of GI Joes who are

sending amerikan youth to die in Cheney's Oily War

Ya Obama that's you for continuing this corporate madness.

[Thothmes]

120. It is now the Obama Oil War

[Name removed]

66. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

105. Oh geez, not this crap again!

[Brother Buzz]

33. When we asked Taliban to turn over Osama bin Laden they asked for evidence

In the immediate days following 9/11/2001, Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, indicated that the Taliban might turn over Osama bin Laden to the U.S. if presented with evidence of his guilt. He also suggested that a Taliban trial of OBL was a possibility.

Where did you dredge up this STFU crap

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=582916

[bvar22]

55. That is not true.

The Taliban agreed to turn him over to a neutral country.
The US said STFU.

[Romulox]

114. So where's Bin Laden? We control the entire country and can't find him.

[Hannah Bell]

126. bhutto said he was dead. before they killed her.

[pointblank]

131. Bullshit

The Taliban offered Bin Laden to us and we ignored them and told them to get fucked...I can't remmber the source and I am at work and dont have time to look it up....

Anyone remember off-hand?

[niceypoo]

8. And if we stay?

[Mari333]

9. Vietnam, take two.

Russia learned the hard way.

[ProudDad]

58. Vietnam Take Three

Iraq is Vietnam take Two...

[readmoreoften]

25. Who do you think the "Taliban" are? Maybe you should do some research before you run your mouth.

According to Anand Gopal of the Christian Science Monitor (who was embedded with both the Taliban and US troops) the Afghani Taliban belong ALMOST ENTIRELY to two groups:

1) Uneducated young men with zero religious training living in conditions of 100% unemployment who are given wages by the Taliban to fight foreign occupiers.

2) Uneducated young men with zero religious training living in conditions of 100% unemployment whose homes have been destroyed and whose mothers and children have been bombed because we are bombing 10x as many completely innocent civilians as we are "Taliban".

Moreover, the Taliban in Pakistan aren't even the same organization as the Taliban in Afghanistan. (Much like how the Democratic Party in the US is different than the Social Democratic Parties of Europe.) The Taliban in Pakistan are a left-wing organization that exists to fight rich landlords on behalf of the poor. But now because of our targeting the two groups, they're beginning to work together.

There is no military solution in Afghanistan. If we want to "win" Afghanistan, it can only be done through jobs programs that give them the ability to rebuild instead of making the country a cash cow for US contractors who are getting filthy rich off our tax money and only exacerbating the problem. (But, hey, the more problems in Afghanistan, the more secure their jobs are.) Of course this will never happen. For about 100 different reasons, but all relating to political opportunism or political cowardice.

[readmoreoften]

30. And the Taliban will never spread considering that they're an ethnic Pashtun organization.

The only other people who can rule Kabul are CIA-backed warlords and Karzai "the mayor of Kabul", a US puppet who no one respects even inside Kabul. Outside the ethnic Pashtun community there is zero support for the Taliban.

This is nothing but blowback. The CIA helped engineer radical Islam in order to get the Mujahadeen to fight Soviet modernization inside and outside Kabul. The Taliban is only one tiny faction of it. If we gave the folks jobs, we'd have such support the Taliban wouldn't stand a chance and we'd get the job done at half the price. But, of course, we won't do that.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

53. That's a complete myth

Please read your history.

[undeterred]

10. Major military operation under way in Afghanistan

WASHINGTON (AP) — Thousands of U.S. Marines and hundreds of Afghan troops moved into Taliban-infested villages with armor and helicopters Wednesday evening in the first major operation under President Barack Obama's revamped strategy to stabilize Afghanistan.

The offensive was launched shortly after 1 a.m. Thursday local time in Helmand province, a Taliban stronghold in the southern part of the country. The goal is to clear insurgents from the hotly contested Helmand River Valley before the nation's Aug. 20 presidential election.

Dubbed Operation Khanjar, or "Strike of the Sword," the military push was described by officials as the largest and fastest-moving of the war's new phase. British forces last week led similar missions to fight and clear out insurgents in Helmand and neighboring Kandahar provinces.

"Where we go we will stay, and where we stay, we will hold, build and work toward transition of all security responsibilities to Afghan forces," Marine Corps Brig. Gen. Larry Nicholson said in a statement.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqyaF...

[ProudDad]

59. Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over

expecting a different result...

"The realization that there could be no military solution to the conflict in Afghanistan came to the Soviet military leadership very early on. The issue of troop withdrawal and the search for a political solution was discussed as early as 1980, but no real steps in that direction were taken, and the Limited Contingent continued to fight in Afghanistan without a clearly defined objective.

Early military reports emphasized the difficulty of fighting on the mountainous terrain, for which the Soviet Army had no training whatsoever. Parallels with the American War in Vietnam were obvious and frequently referred to by the Soviet military officers."

Afghanistan: Lessons from the Last War -- http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB57/soviet.htm...

And the Russians were suckered in by Zbigniew Brzezinski to attack.

The Obamites don't even have that excuse.

Give them Jobs and Soccer and Cricket and stay the FUCK out of Afghanistan...or any of the other 150+ countries we're pissing away our treasure to occupy.

PISS ON ALL FLAGS!!!!

[PufPuf23]

12. U.S. Marines launched a pre-dawn mission in Afghanistan's volatile Helmand Province

Source: Washington Post

U.S. Marines Launch Major Operation in Afghanistan

Preparing to Deploy

U.S. Marines launched a pre-dawn mission in Afghanistan's volatile Helmand Province.

By Rajiv Chandrasekaran

Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 1, 2009; 5:32 PM

CAMP LEATHERNECK, Afghanistan, July 2 -- Thousands of U.S. Marines descended upon the volatile Helmand River valley in helicopters and armored convoys early Thursday morning, mounting an operation that represents the first large-scale test of the U.S. military's new counter-insurgency strategy in Afghanistan.

OBAMA'S WAR: U.S. Marines Launch Major Operation in Afghanistan

Preparing to Deploy

Special Report: Obama's War

The operation will involve about 4,000 troops from the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, which was dispatched to Afghanistan earlier this year by President Obama to combat a growing Taliban insurgency in Helmand and other southern provinces. The Marines, along with an Army brigade that is scheduled to arrive later this summer, plan to push into pockets of the country where NATO forces have not had a presence. In many of those areas, the Taliban have evicted local police and government officials, and taken power.

Once Marine units arrive in their designated towns and villages, they have been instructed to build and live in small outposts among the local population. The brigade's commander, Brig. Gen. Lawrence D. Nicholson, said his Marines will focus their efforts on protecting civilians from the Taliban, and on restoring Afghan government services, instead of a series of hunt-and-kill missions against the insurgents.


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

[subcomhd]

13. Good Luck Marines

[ohio2007]

14. Semper Fi

[msongs]

15. what's the vietnam era term for this? pacification? nt

[westerebus]

16. ZIPPO.

As in lighter.

[ProudDad]

63. Not "Pacification", Phoenix...

Operation Phoenix in Vietnam

"The problem was, how do you find the people on the blacklist? It's not like you had their address and telephone number. The normal procedure would be to go into a village and just grab someone and say, 'Where's Nguyen so-and-so?' Half the time the people were so afraid they would say anything. Then a Phoenix team would take the informant, put a sandbag over his head, poke out two holes so he could see, put commo wire around his neck like a long leash, and walk him through the village and say, 'When we go by Nguyen's house scratch your head.' Then that night Phoenix would come back, knock on the door, and say, 'April Fool, motherfucker.' Whoever answered the door would get wasted. As far as they were concerned whoever answered was a Communist, including family members. Sometimes they'd come back to camp with ears to prove that they killed people."

Piss on ALL Flags!!!

[pipoman]

17. Godspeed Marines...eom

[Mari333]

19. the only reason people are supporting this insane occupation

is because obama is the president.
and i will say the same thing i said to people applauding bush for his occupation antics..
enlist or stop expecting other peoples kids to die for oil.
there is nothing lower on earth then a warmongering armchair chickenhawk. nothing.

[readmoreoften]

26. It just shows that these people stand for nothing whatsoever. A chickenhawk is a chickenhawk.

I don't care what letter comes after your favorite elected official's name. The war in Afghanistan is a disaster. And in many ways, it's even more idiotic than the war in Iraq because it is has no goals and would require more troops to occupy. It's total absurdity.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

36. heh..not impressed with your macho chest thumping

its mildly amusing. but boring.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

29. and 2 of my sons are in the military TWO OF THEM

some of us dont want our kids sent to occupations to make OIL COMPANIES rich.
some of us dont want our kids to die so rich businessmen and politicians make money.
and thats what its all about, buddy.
http://www.mfso.org /


U.S. Military Casualties In Iraq: 4,311
Iraqi and Afghani Civilian Casualties: 1,000,000 +
U.S. Military Casualties In Afghanistan: 702
MILITARY FAMILIES SPEAK OUT


http://www.veteransforpeace.org/

[pipoman]

35. I'm sure they are proud...

And my ONLY child...

[Mari333]

38. they are proud. they are wonderful young men

and they are against both occupations.
and i lost my youngest son to illness.
so I know a lot more then you can even imagine about losing a kid.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

42. must have hit a nerve. nt

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

52. a brilliant statement

but you still havent provided a justification for endless occupation of a foreign country.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

41. I wish them a safe journey

home. all of them. you see, I want them to come home from that quagmire.
I want them to be safe, not there.
we both want them to be safe. but I want them to be HOME> thats the difference.
and dump the macho bullshit. it doesnt fly here.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

44. Im sorry I didnt mean to call *you* names

I was referring to the many people who support this occupation and dont have anyone involved in it.
If you do have someone involved, I apologize.
but to anyone else who supports it with no one involved, I dont.
be well.

[One of Many]

48. Ridiculous

All American citizens have a right to speak out in support of or in descent of US policy and actions. Frankly, all human beings do to whether or not their governments recognize that fact.

What other rights and liberties would you like to revoke based on one's membership in organizations or affiliations with others who are members of various organizations?

What a ridiculous assertion.

[Mari333]

50. when the NEOCONS went to war

or 'occupation' I called them chickenhawks. The Bush followers screamed and ranted and raved for their 'war' in Iraq, and flew their flags, and watched Shock and Awe in front of their TVs eating pizzas. I called them chickenhawks because it was their video game war. they sent 5000 US soldiers to their untimely deaths and sat in their living rooms rooting for a war they wouldnt fight in.
I call them as I see them.
People have a first amendment right to scream and hoot and holler for wars.
I have a first amendment right to call them chickenhawks if they dont have a dog in the game.
and I dont care if they are called (R) or (D)

[ProudDad]

67. I don't have anyone involved in it...

So why the FUCK don't I have a say???

My tax dollars have been STOLEN for decades to pay for this bullshit. That gives me the right!

PISS ON ALL FLAGS!!! And PISS ON ALL WARS...

I was smart enough to realize what a sucker game war and the military was soon enough to get the FUCK out of the Navy before those insane motherfuckers who were running Vietnam could get me involved in their murderous insanity.

PISS ON ALL FLAGS!!! And PISS ON ALL WARS...

All wars are by nature evil.

All who promote, glorify or apologize for war are acting in the interest of EVIL...

It's time for that bullshit to stop!

-------------------

War is a Racket...

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

[ProudDad]

62. I want you kid back here

And all the rest of the kids...

And I want an END to war...

As long as it continues to be glorified and those who engage in it as somehow "better than the rest of us" that bullshit insanity will continue.

PISS ON ALL FLAGS!!!

And to hell with all war mongers!!!

[pipoman]

65. I do too

"I want you kid back here

And all the rest of the kids...

And I want an END to war..."

Until then, I wish them all a safe journey, you know, Godspeed...Wishing doesn't make it so, I've tried that, it don't work...

[bvar22]

57. +1...Nailed It

Standing with you.

No Military Objective + No Exit Strategy = Quagmire

[pipoman]

61. So you agree that post #19

is a reasonable response to post #17? If so, really, what the fuck is the matter with people in here?

[ProudDad]

75. I read #19 as calling Obama

another chickenhawk...not you...

On one level, that's correct... He wasn't in the military and for some reason, as far as worthless, useless wars of occupation, he's no different from George W Bush.

No imagination.

They keep thinking that throwing more guns and bombs at a problem is the only solution.

Any freakin' idiot can start or wage a war.

It takes COURAGE to try other paths than war.

Just as it would have been very refreshing for bush et.al. to really analyze WHY people would be so pissed off and desperate as to fly airplanes into towers (if they indeed DID fly them into towers but that's another discussion).

It would have been refreshing if they had adjusted the way USAmerica exploits the world's resources to create an artificial consumer society that's so fucking painful that over 50% of USAmericans have to take drugs (prescription and non) to get through the goddamn day!

Instead of a knee-jerk war promotion response the USAmerican Empire could have begun dismantling itself, powering down and getting ready for the world without cheap oil and the world that will have to cope with dangerously extensive climate change.

But no, gwb and now Obama just follow the same, worn, useless, impotent, deadly path.

God, it's depressing how fucking stupid the big-brained bipeds are...

[pipoman]

96. Fine

if that is the case why would that be the response to me wishing the Marines a safe journey? If that was the intent shouldn't it have been a response to the OP or some such. No, I believe that the poster was in fact ASSuming I am an armchair advocate.

[Hannah Bell]

128. yes, what is it with these freaking warmongers?

[Freddie Stubbs]

94. That's like saying you should not support the police arresting violent criminals unless

you are willing to become a police officer yourself.

[pipoman]

97. Just so this sub thread makes sense

Most of the deleted messages in this subthread were my posts. They were deleted because I took strong exception to this post as a response to my wishing these marines a safe journey. I called the poster what I believe she deserved to be called for such a response to my heartfelt wish of Godspeed to these brave young men and women.

I strongly disagree that nobody who isn't serving or doesn't have a child serving should not have an opinion of this action (for or against), or has no right to wish our troops good luck or a safe journey.

I am not an armchair warrior. Because of my son's strong desire to serve, I signed his commitment to the marines when he was 17, after much discussion with him and torment to my own soul over signing my only child to such a commitment. My heart still aches over his service though I couldn't be prouder of him.

[westerebus]

119. And on the seventh day, God rested. Marines filled sand bags! n/t

[pipoman]

121. *snick* That sounds about right...

[annarbor]

111. Same here....

God's speed, Leathernecks!

Semper Fi

Ann Arbor

[laststeamtrain]

20. McClatchy: U.S. troops told to stop Taliban pursuit if civilians are at risk

U.S. troops told to stop Taliban pursuit if civilians are at risk
By NANCY A. YOUSSEF
McClatchy Newspapers

KABUL -- Beginning Thursday, American soldiers in Afghanistan will be under orders to back down when they're chasing Taliban fighters whenever they think that civilians might be at risk.

Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top commander in Afghanistan, will issue the directive as part of an effort to cut down on civilian casualties, which have enraged the Afghan government and residents. Instead of calling in air support or firing into civilian homes where Taliban fighters have sought refuge, commanders will be instructed to reach out to tribal elders or undertake other efforts to dislodge the fighters.

The order is consistent with what national security adviser James L. Jones told McClatchy Newspapers in Washington Wednesday was President Barack Obama's concern about civilian casualties in Afghanistan.

"General McChrystal has been given instructions when he left here that, in all military operations, that we redouble our efforts to make sure that innocent loss of life is minimized, with zero being the goal," Jones said, noting that, "In one mishap you can create thousands more terrorists than you had before the mishap."

The new order, however, is likely to draw criticism from some U.S. troops, many of whom feel the rules that govern how they fight the war already are too restrictive.

Many troops here say they depend on air power and heavy weaponry because there aren't enough ground troops to chase Taliban forces on foot. Jones said no additional ground troops will be sent this year, even though some ground commanders want them.

<more>

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/11236...
*

[Mari333]

21. McChrystal...dont believe anything that creep says

(McChrystal, not uncoincidentally, was involved in the prisoner abuse scandal at Baghdad's Camp Nama. He also played a sordid role in the cover-up of the friendly-fire death of ex-NFL star and Army Ranger Pat Tillman.)




http://www.uruknet.info/?p=54460

[NeoConsSuck]

28. Oh please

like we've ever given a rat's ass about the safety of Afghan citizens. We've probably killed more Afghan citizens than we did Taliban.

[readmoreoften]

32. According to Jeremy Scahill, over ten times more citizens than Taliban in Pakistan.

I'm sure the number is similar in Afghanistan. But, hey, today's bombing survivor is tomorrow's Taliban, so its all the same right?

[Alamuti Lotus]

37. "avoid PR debacles, they make the crusade look bad"

[laststeamtrain]

74. Yes. That is the point. The PR assault comes with the air & ground forces.

It's really starting now.

There is no good outcome.

[conturnedpro09]

23. Good luck, Marines!

[pipoman]

46. Careful,

the OP of this thread only wishes these Marines good luck on her own weak terms....Unless they are coming home she doesn't wish them well, check post #41.

[Mari333]

47. bullshit.

I wish them all well. I wished my son well when he went to IRAQ. but I wanted him home, and I want them ALL HOME. now YOU behave.

[Dark]

68. troops in iraq belong home. Afghanistan, they belong there.

It was a justified invasion.

[Mari333]

71. no, it is not. nt

[Dark]

72. Are you a truther? n/t

[Mari333]

73. ...learn

http://www.alternet.org/world/139983/pipeline-istan:_ev... /

learn something.

www.mfso.org

www.veteransforpeace.org

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alamuti Lotus]

83. going down this road, could that have anything to do with the 20,000 slaughtered in Beirut?

That's where Sheikh Ussamah got the idea of hitting large buildings, when the Israeli occupyers demolished Beirut. Or perhaps the hundreds of thousands slaughtered by US sanctions in Iraq?

The direction that your argument is taking tends to justify the 9/11 events just as much as you would like to support raids on Helmand. That is not an argument I am personally espousing (for the record, mine is far more complex, fucked up and bloodthirsty.....but different, all the same), merely elaborating on. You may not notice this and quite vehemently miss the point where another example of this argument is offered below, so I wanted to take the opportunity to present it slightly differently in another attempt. I expect the same result, but find it entertaining to attempt such anyway.

[Dark]

86. I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Neither does 95% of people here I'm sure

nt/

[Alamuti Lotus]

89. That wouldn't surprise me.

What parts in particular? I can elaborate if it would help, but I would prefer particular points to focus on.

[ProudDad]

76. As was 9-11 a justified attack...

from the point of view of Al Qaida...

Murdering Palestinians in Gaza with White Phosphorus is justified -- from the Israeli perspective...

Blowing up busses in Tel Aviv is justified -- from a Palestinian perspective...

Firebombing Dresden was justified -- by the "Allies" in WWII...

Cremating 200,000 Japanese civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was justified -- by USAmerika - to teach Joe Stalin a lesson...

---------------------

See, when you begin the sick thinking like that -- it breeds...and perpetuates...

Break the vicious cycle...

Piss on all Flags!!!

Piss on all Prophets!!!

Do NOT participate in any war on any level, especially glorifying it or glorifying those unfortunate or ignorant enough of its true purpose to allow themselves to participate in it.

[Mari333]

77. If the United States had just once looked in the mirror and asked themselves

why would anyone want to attack us? what could our foreign policy have done all these years to make people hate us so much? and then, actually LEARNED something from all the empire building and horrific behaviour and crimes we have committed all over the world..maybe then we might be salvageable..
instead, we kneejerk response like adolescents and pound our chests.
I dont know what it will take to change the course of empire. we may have to ensuffer utter bankruptcy before we learn that being a militaristic bully will only end up destroying us in the long run. we are our own worst enemy.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alamuti Lotus]

79. Reading comprehension wasn't a big thing at your school, was it?

Did you miss the key (para-)phrase "from the outlook of those who carried it out too" or were you just on an emotional high and weren't about to let the facts get in the way of a good indignation?

See, that above is a more elegant way of saying "fuck you"; sentiment is the same, but I sound a little smarter (deceptively so, I must say) in doing so.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alamuti Lotus]

90. Once again, missed it all entirely..

[ProudDad]

84. I believe in an absolute right to free speech

so I won't alert on you.

But just so you know, your silly, ignorant outburst is kinda' breaking the rules...

and others might rat you out for it...

....

Even so, reading comprehension wasn't your forte, was it?

On Edit: and if you've read any of my other posts in this thread you would realize that I'm 100% against war or any form of violent acting out to my core...no matter which deluded bunch of mental defectives do it...Whether they're working for Osama or Obama...

[Dark]

85. Bwahahaha. Yeah. Alert me. I've been plotting since 04 to publish thisl

[ProudDad]

117. It appears that someone else already did

You are a very strange and obviously inarticulate and sickly warped individual...

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[clixtox]

92. Apparently you also haven't learned to read...

and intelligently process the words for their meaning.

The poster singled out the horrific fire-bombing of civilians in Dresden, Germany and the incineration and radioactive poisoning of the civilian populations of two Japanese cities. Both of these war crimes are placed in some context by the poster to show how we are basically hypocrites. On the one hand we espouse lofty ideals of honor, adherence to international law and similar pap while in reality we are guilty of multiple atrocities around the world throughout our history.

Although most Americans are not aware of our true history they are ready to "beat the shit" out of anyone who tries to enlighten them.

Heaven forbid...

Ignorance is truly bliss!

Knowing the tragic truth and being aware of how we have fallen so short of our potential to be a force for good is a burden to hard to bear for most of us.

Believe it or not!

[Orwellian_Ghost]

54. Her terms are clear

They have nothing to do with weakness. They have everything to do with compassion and international law.

She simply does not support aggressive acts from a rogue nation. Do you?

[Hannah Bell]

122. bullshit. your good wishes = "i hope they kill the afghanis without getting killed themselves"

she should wish them "good luck" on "strong terms"? does that mean they should kill even *more* in this bullshit war?

piss on your orwellian "good luck"

[pipoman]

124. You have no idea what I mean

dazed and confused you are..

[Hannah Bell]

125. you have no idea what the poster meant - judging from your comments.

US forces are undertaking a major offensive in afghanistan. you wish them well in their illegal invasion. the continuation of the bush policy.

[pipoman]

134. If you can't wish other people's kids a safe journey,

you are scum.

[Hannah Bell]

135. you distorted the poster's comment when she wished them a safe journey. so double scum to you, bub.

wishing our kids safe journey = wishing afgan kids death.

i don't like double binds or forced bad choices.

we shouldn't be there.

[pipoman]

136. We ARE there DA, whether you or I like it or not

Really if you must know, I wandered through here the other day and posted #17, then went on about my business. Simple, not argumentative, in NO way should it even be considered the least bit controversial among USAmericans, yet the response was #19.

[Hannah Bell]

137. which the poster has clarified as not about you, but you can't stop beating your dead horse

& slamming the poster. get over yourself.

yes, we're there. it's dirty lying business. i wish no one godspeed. i don't find our service people "brave," nor those on the other side either.

[pipoman]

138. There you go

You wish death on the American service men and women, other American's children, assuming you know the meaning of the term Godspeed. People who wish such things are filthy, anti-American scum as everyone can see. A person who enjoys the benefit of living in the US yet hates their neighbor's children, that is. It is possible to be ardently against this action yet wish the grunts of your President, Congress and Senate a safe journey as most here on DU do. Thank dog that you are the extreme minority in the Democratic party, if the rest of the sane people in this party held your vile position the Democratic party would have the relevance of the Whig party.

Your inability to follow the threads here has apparently made it impossible to see the time line of the post you responded to in relation to that of the poster's (who really doesn't need your help, btw) subsequent posts.

I'm done with you. I believe anyone reading this thread can see what you are, I am sure some idiots will agree with your position...I am confident most sane Dems will agree with mine.

[Hannah Bell]

139. same ad hom as with the other poster. i nowhere wish anyone death. rather the opposite.

your beef is evidentally that i don't wish death to the sons & daughters of afghanis.

"godspeed" = hypocrisy.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

104. Cannon fodder for politicians and generals to use for CYA.

[timeforpeace]

56. Bush must be bustin a gut over this thread. Warmongering where he least expected it.

[IndianaGreen]

82. Invading Iraq is warmongering. Kicking the Taleban out is a virtue.

But let's not forget that it is Saudi Arabia financing of Wahhabi schools across the world that has spread the hateful ideology of Al-Qaeda and Taleban.

[ddiver]

60. I guess it really was only about who the President was. What has changed? Exit strategy?

Isn't Afgh. still where empires go to die? Is this surge going to work even though the last one couldn't without the Iraqi's uprising? What Afgh. group do we expect to uprise now? Is it still about the oil and the pipeline?

The fist pumping, gun waving gung-ho is a real eye opener.

[Mari333]

64. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Tim01]

69. Give 'em hell Marines, and stay safe. nt

[proteus_lives]

88. +1

[ProudDad]

70. War is a Racket

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

Piss on All Flags!!!

[IndianaGreen]

81. I wish we had more troops there

Even in Pakistan, tribal leaders have turned against the Taleban and they are fighting them. They need support. Our support.

The Taleban are bad news, and their ideology is the same Wahhabi extremism spoused by Al-Qaeda.

Good luck, Marines!

[clixtox]

93. Don't wait for the crowds, go enlist NOW!

Convince your friends and neighbors to also enlist right now so you will be ready to fill the places of those who are already being tragically sacrificed for the greed of our masters.

Hurry!

Get up off your chair and go see your local recruiter.

Be somebody!

Go kick some "taleban"(sic) ass.

Kill! Kill! Kill!

Have I convinced you yet?

"They need support. Our support", You wrote!

Come on... Are you green, or yellow!

Please keep us apprised of your experiences during your training and subsequent deployment.

Oh, and "good luck"!

[Mari333]

99. I say the same thing to people who advocate 'war'

they are so willing to send other peoples kids, and so UNwilling to send their own, or themselves. funny isnt it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

100. That's like saying you should not support the police arresting violent criminals unless

you are willing to become a police officer yourself.

[clixtox]

108. Really? Perhaps you could be more explicit?

Your logic is so dazzling it must have blinded me to your point.

Are you trying to bamboozle me with senseless drivel?

I am in need of illumination and I am anxious to learn from you...

[Hannah Bell]

123. sure it is. because internal policing is just like invading another country.

[Mari333]

109. some people cannot wait to murder children

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/articl...
therefore, they should enlist and see it up close.

[superduperfarleft]

98. When are you enlisting? n/t

[Odin2005]

107. Wow, we are in agreement for once!

It took a red-baiting conservative to "go to China" and it will take a liberal to crush the Taliban.

[Mari333]

102. ....

http://www.redress.cc/global/cking20090702
the afghanistan war is a war crime

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

103. We lost. Get out. Get over it. K&R

By any rational measure, we lost the "wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now, the killing is being done only to save face.

[Odin2005]

106. We would have Afghanistan all fixed up by now were it not for Bush's Iraq misadventure.

Good luck, marines!

[clixtox]

110. Perhaps, or perhaps not. We would have "fixed it up" for who?

The only real reason to oust the Taliban was to install our own stooge(s) to make Afghanistan safe for a crude oil pipeline to transit the country.

Too bad for our corporate masters that your optimism isn't contagious.

Only the historically ignorant could possibly hope for a "fixed up" Afghanistan being imposed by non-Afghanis.

We will learn the same lesson many others have discovered, eventually. Any victory is temporary and Pyrrhic.

The cost in our dwindling resources and the destruction of lives and our vaunted superiority will dog us for generations.

Our days of empire are drawing to a close.

[superduperfarleft]

112. I'm sure there's room in the Marines for such a gung-ho young man as yourself.

Plenty of time for you to go over there and help them "fix up" wedding parties and poppy fields.

Of course, I've been informed that the word "chickenhawk" no longer exists now that Obama's president, so I won't call you that.

[Mari333]

116. Ive already tried to get him to enlist

no one wants to enlist for this it seems. no one wants their own kids to enlist.
they just want other peoples kids to enlist or be sent.
I will call anyone a chickenhawk who insists someone elses kids go over there, I dont care if they are Dems or Repubs.
I posted this pic to describe the gung ho'ers for Bush but I post it now for anyone who is gung ho and doesnt have a dog in the game:

[annarbor]

113. Good point, Odin2005!

I hope that they are successful this time.

Good luck Marines!

[Hannah Bell]

129. why don't you put your *own* shoulder to the wheel? oh, right, i forgot.

that's for the little people.

[Odin2005]

130. I have Asperger's Syndrome, The millitary and autistic sensory issues do not fit together.

That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion on foreign policy.

[Hannah Bell]

132. i'm sure they can find *something* for you to do. since you're so gung ho.

they have desk jobs, you know.

[Odin2005]

133. Would still have to survive Basic Training, which isn't gonna happen.

[Romulox]

115. "The Surge is working!" nt

[Baclava]

118. To The Commander In Chief - No blood for poppies!

That is all.

I have spoken.


I wish all our soldiers come home in one piece.