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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:45 AM
Original message
For accused museum shooter, a downward spiral
Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- James von Brunn carried a lifetime of hatred and an aging rifle to the entrance of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, authorities say, and was met with a simple act of kindness: a security guard opening the door for him.

Critically injured in a hospital bed Thursday, the 88-year-old white supremacist was charged with murdering Stephen T. Johns, the black guard. According to interviews with family, friends and civil rights groups, von Brunn spent decades spewing hate toward Jews and blacks - a hatred that was nearing a crescendo in the weeks before the shooting.

At least one acquaintance said he suspected that von Brunn was preparing for a violent end.

-snip-

"I was stunned to have met anyone who acted like that. I don't remember encountering anyone that bigoted before in my life," Riley said. "He was right out there for all to know and see and he was just so angry, it was kind of alarming to be around him."

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HOLOCAUST_MUS...



Pretty detailed and lengthy article on von Brunn's hateful legacy. He's apparently been spewing his vile nonsense since long before the museum shooting. Even showed up at US Naval Academy and demanded a meeting with the administration, in order to protest the number of minorities enrolling to serve!
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Was he looking to do suicide by cop?
Was he looking to do a suicide by cop, hoping that the armed response his actions engendered would be lethal to him?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's what I've been thinking.
He planned to go out in a massacre blaze of racist glory.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. If that is the case I hope he lives another 10-15 yrs in prison.
....on suicide watch.



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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. He must have lived a miserable life
with that much hate in him.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. Nothing that personal I suspect
If he had a list it means he was planning on surviving at least 99 of his attempts. I think he figured he was the best suited to start shit for "the movement". Nearer to his last days anyway and actually as far as a cover, the perfect assassin. Who is really going to deem a man, obviously in his late 70's to 80's by appearance, as a serious threat?
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. I really hope he survives...
...and can stand trial. I can't think of a more appropriate punishment for him than spending the last few years of his miserable life in a federal prison.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Yeah, me too. nt
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think I've heard of a perp this old before.
Most people mellow with age.

I heard the victim's young son on the radio, so sad.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. MENTALLY ILL
Edited on Fri Jun-12-09 03:11 AM by Mimosa
My best bud, an MD, pointed out that von Brunn was delusional and mentally ill. He should have received intervention and continuing psychiatric treatment when he went nuts in the 1980s when he planned to kidnap paul Volcker. But instead he was put in prison where he probably got no pschiatric care. Now a security guard with a family has lost his life because of untreated worsening mental illness.

Von Brunn's actions and thoughts were despicable and delusional but they also indicated mental illness. When we get universal health care psychological treatment and therapy must be included. Could von Brunn's crimes and craziness have been alleviated by psychiatric diagnosis and intervention?
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Being republican is a sign of mental illness in itself. If we just treated them all,
we would be the greatest country on Earth. Again.
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harris8 Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Aye, but there's the rub
The only way a delusional psychotic (i.e. Republican) can legally be held in a mental institution for more than 4 days (in most states) is AFTER they have injured or killed someone. And the bar is much higher before forced medication can begin.

The woman I was married to gave up everything she had (her job, our 3 children, her military retirement benefits, her home, and her husband - me) rather than accept medication for her paranoid schizophrenia. I had her committed 3 times, her longest stay was about 30 days, but due to the nature of her illness, in her eyes the problem is ME and the doctors and other "bad guys", not her.

And oh does she worship Bush, Reagan, et al.
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Syntheto Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. I'm sorry to hear that, did she also believe that ...
...the Twin Towers was an 'inside job'? That's a good sign of mental illness, also. I've seen it too any times. That was a big part of this guy's system of irrational beliefs - that the 'neocons' destroyed the Twin Towers so that the Jewish element could collect on the insurance. Dealing with a schizophrenic is like trying to play chess with somebody doing acid.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Gee.......
WASn't it the WASP marvin bush whose company held the insurance policy in the towers?
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heliarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. Marvin Bush didn't hold the policy.
Edited on Fri Jun-12-09 12:58 PM by heliarc
Larry Silverstein held the insurance policy on the twin towers. And he tried to collect on it twice: once for each plane. He's a big time New York Developer... Marvin Bush had been connected to the security firm at the towers. There's a really good Frontline on it that I don't think you can watch online anymore.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sacred/de...
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. playing chess on acid is FUN!!!


WEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. The Party has become a safe haven for the mentally ill. Like a magnet.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Fuck that "mentally ill = conservative" stupidity sideways (nt)
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. I don't think this man is mentally ill. Unreasonable hate isn't an illness, it's a self-esteem
issue. The person who feels frightened by the 'others' around him, feels less like a man and powerless. They over-react by becoming hateful bullies.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. Oh Christ, here we go against with the bigoted Mentally Ill = Violent Nut stereotype.
I'm no fan of the 9/11 conspiracy nuts either the poster calling them all mentally ill went over the line, too.

Having what most people consider evil, disgusting beliefs and acting on them with violent means is not itself a mental illness. Most conspiracy nuts are simply victims of the cognitive biases all people have, not Schizophrenic John Nashes.

As a person with a mental illness (Bipolar), I find this bigoted BS disgusting.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. I think maybe we should "be specific" in regards to speaking of health issues. Where
I am coming from is that von Brunn was "psychotic". He also was full of hatred. No offense to anyone as I have a husband and step-son that receive treatments.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. Isn't being a socially acceptable scapegoat awesome?
God, that annoys me too, and I'm not even diagnosed with anything. %P
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
27. Mentally ill? Maybe. Able to possess a gun? Too easily. His ability to kill a guard at his
age -mentally ill or not- without a gun? VERY unlikely.

Too many nut jobs, too many guns, the math is simple
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I've never known a rat to improve with age. They may lose energy,though.
Edited on Fri Jun-12-09 03:53 AM by No Elephants
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
12. "I don't remember encountering anyone that bigoted before in my life"
Must have never been to a Sarah Palin rally.
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willing dwarf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
13.  "He was a fine man and very much of an American,"
According to that article, quoting his ex wife: "He was a fine man and very much of an American," said Pat Sadowski, who lives in Florida and said von Brunn hasn't been a part of her life since their divorce more than 30 years ago. "He was like a John Wayne type."

Isn't it time Americans look at these received images of what the "John Wayne type" citizen is about and realize how much white-supremist attitudes are embedded into that ideology?!
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. If he was charged does that mean he's conscious? n/t
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. I don't believe this man was insane
I think he was full of rage and anger, but many are and *don't* stage a grandstand shoot-out they're bound to lose.

It's my belief that, feeling mortality close in on him, he chose the dubious "immortality" of martyrdom to his cause. He wanted to leave a legacy among the only people that "understood" him.

The most extreme elements of the far-right became very active during the Clinton administration. I believe that same element is seething with hatred over a black man in the White House.

There will be more violence. These killers are not operating in a vacuum. They have support, they have compatriots.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. They have support, they have compatriots.
they have Rush Limpbags, Bill O'Liely, Sean Insanity, et al cheering them on daily.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Not what I mean
Edited on Fri Jun-12-09 09:40 AM by Dogtown
I don't mean to belittle your comment, it certainly has some authority.

It's important though, in my opinion, to separate the team from the cheerleaders. Limbaugh, et al, are merely "entertainers" playing to a specific (and loathsome) audience. They deserve our scorn, but the actual infrastructure of the extremist movement is almost ignored because we vent at the outrageous clown-act.

Those people are not the leaders of the extremists, they merely profit by them.

The real enemy isn't the buffoons. It's the sick little bastards at their hate-fest meetings, both overt & obscure, driving the gear-wheels of the beast that we need to focus on. The meanshit thuggery of the Order, for example, had little to do with the posturings of Carnies like Limbaugh.

The dangerous ones are ignorable until they act-out their hatred, and they are intent on bringing civilization down to their level.
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
17. "At least one acquaintance said he suspected that von Brunn was preparing for a violent end."
:wtf:
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
22. Link has changed?
But, in an earlier local news article, his ex said that he was an all-day drunk
could this :sarcasm: have affected his thought processes? Had he bben on any medications? :shrug: :crazy:
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. New Link...
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thanks for posting the new link!
I would edit the OP, but unfortunately, the window for doing so is long gone. :)
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. No probs. DU family and all that.
cheers! :)
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