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Old Coot Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:15 PM
Original message
Cheney on gay marriage: 'Freedom for everyone'
Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON Former Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday he supports gays being able to marry but believes states, not the federal government, should make the decision.

"I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone," Cheney said in a speech at the National Press Club. "I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish."

Cheney, who has a gay daughter, said marriage has always been a state issue.

"And I think that's the way it ought to be handled today, that is, on a state-by-state basis. Different states will make different decisions. But I don't have any problem with that. I think people ought to get a shot at that," he said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_chen...



Cheney spent the rest of the speech talking about other, unrelated, issues.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. So now he's a union man, and I love the "get a shot at" line
Dick, you still suck.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Let me see if I've got this straight, so to speak.
Cheney is on board, but not Obama? Hardly "change we can believe in". :eyes:
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Cheney is on board,
Well, only because he's out of office and not going to be elected to anything anytime soon. Otherwise, he'd be against it.

Or do you believe what that liar is saying?

Since when was equal rights a state by state issue anyway?

Utter bull crap.
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Actually,..
this has been his position for a while, like it or not.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5817720 /
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I don't believe him in 2004 either.
He's done so much to promote it since then!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. It's a federal issue when the states looks like they want equality. Hence DOMA.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cheney is trying to drive up the price of his book deal, thus he is all over the media nt
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Oh, there's much more to it than that.
Torture is only the tip of the iceberg. In January, 2007, in Baghdad, over a thousand bodies were dumped by the truckload, most of them tortured before they were murdered. It had been going at a similar pace since at least 2005.

Ever hear of "terrorists" getting busted carrying a truckload of dead bodies in Iraq? Neither have I. But Kellogg, Brown and Root, Dick Cheney's alma mater, is currently defending itself for doing just that, then shipping ice in the same trucks and giving it to the troops, which sickened at least one of them.

See where that's going? Here, take a look at the original playbook for that sort of thing.

Someone should be dancing on the end of a rope for it. He's the guy looking for a book deal.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Except the people in Gitmo, of course. nt
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. It kinda sucks when Cheney is more progressive on this issue than Obama
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. It kinda sucks when people believe what the self-serving Cheney says.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. How exactly is that self serving?
Kinda sounds like ....

What's the opposite of self serving?
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. Full-serving? Except in Oregon and Jersey. n/t
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. I was thinking more like self-defeating
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. Anyone with half a brain could figure out he supported
gay marriage. He was just either too much of a chickenshit or too motivated by his political agenda to come out and say it.

Now, I don't think he has always been for it, but I guess his daughter got to him at some point because he pretty much avoided the topic at all costs.

I'm not approving of his behavior or justifying it... just trying to explain it. As someone who's father is one of the greatest, most giving and compassionate men I have ever known... yet has some views and traits that are completely opposite, I have come to understand how people rationalize the conflicting ideals.

I believe there are methods of raising kids that foster an open mind and methods that teach kids not to question what you are taught. And those who are taught not to question the teaching find it easier to kee their current beliefs rather than turn their ideological worldview upside down, causing them to rethink events in their lives that might have been different had they questioned it earlier.

Humans in general tend to cling to certain core beliefs for whatever reason (my thought is that it is he brain's self-defense mechanism to preserve sanity), and it takes a lot to get past that barrier. Pride and fear of being shamed by their peers add on to that even more.

So I can see how Cheney could take this position while still being a complete asshat on every other position.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. The sad part is, the issue has to affect him personally before he goes against his core beliefs
I compare this to Nancy Raygun and stem cell research. She's an evil witch, but when she saw what Alzheimer's did to Ronnie, she bucked the party line.

However, I will at least give Cheney credit for not riding the "civil union" fence as Obama does and trying to escape into semantics for the sake of politics. As warped as Cheney is on most everything else, he got this one right. It is an issue of freedom.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Um ... yeah ... remind me again how he moved the country forward on this issue from 2001 to 2009
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. As opposed to the way the current administration is moving it forward?
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Sure. Let's see your comparison of Cheney's last eight years against Obama's last four months
Edited on Mon Jun-01-09 10:11 PM by struggle4progress
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Do you think it's going to be different 8 years from now?
Obama has already clearly stated he doesn't support gay marriage. I don't know what more you can say about that.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. not wanting to play rhetorical bullshit games. kthxbai!
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Coulda fooled me!
That bridge was crossed on your first post. Kinda late now, eh?

:rofl:
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. You claim Cheney more progressive than Obama. I asked for documentation. You gave none
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. What part of "on this issue" did you not understand?
Now you're going to say I claimed he is more progressive overall? Kinda rich of you accusing someone else of "bullshit rhetoric games", no?

Cheney has said he supports gay marriage. Obama said he did not. Are you so ill informed that you don't know these things and actually need "documentation"? Or are you just playing dumb to try and back yourself out of the corner? If it's the later, I would say your own "bullshit rhetoric" is pretty sad. If it's the former, try reading the original post and then listening to Obama's position:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K9dS9wl7U

If you want more "documentation", try reading Sam Stein's article in Huff post where he says exactly the same thing. To make it even easier, you don't even have to get past the first sentence:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/01/cheney-offers-...

Have a nice day.


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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Obama isn't going around promoting "traditional marriage" as Bush did
while bashing gay marriage.

he may not be doing enough but he isn't doing anything to stop it.
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. We are talking about Cheney, not Bush
Cheney pretty much kept his mouth shut on the issue... not justifying his actions (or lack thereof), just pointing out a man so wrapped up in his evil plans to ruin it by coming out as not hating gay people.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. FREEDOM! *see fine print for details, excludes most states and territories, military, religion, etc

the fine print is where all your coverage is denied, just like any contract.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. What a sickening piece of shit
Mr. Liberal since he has a gay daughter. If he didn't he would be right there with the right wing.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Exactly. n/t
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. Uh, you are insulting him because he is coming out in favor
of expanded gay rights.

I don't care if the fucking spaghetti monster convinced him, as long as he is genuine about it. And I am inclined to think he has held this view for a long while now. Of all the issues he has ranted about over the last 8 years, he was pretty damn quiet about gay rights.

One Republican saying what he just said is more effective than a hundred liberals saying it. Republicans generally dismiss liberals on this issue, but there are a lot of people who respect Cheney for whatever reason who may just have had a spark lit in their minds.

Why should we care how he came to have this viewpoint, as long as he honestly believes it? (notice my disclaimer there)

It really encourages Republicans to come out against their party on a key issue when we trash them for the fact that they didn't do it soner. But by all means, continue doing so and see how well it turns out.

Change comes one step at a time, and this may be one of those times. Rarely do you find someone who turns a complete 180 degrees on their core beliefs overnight.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Well, there you have it
I don't care if the fucking spaghetti monster convinced him, as long as he is genuine about it

He's not. He would'nt give a flying fuck about it if his daughter wasn't gay.

And I am inclined to think he has held this view for a long while now. Of all the issues he has ranted about over the last 8 years, he was pretty damn quiet about gay rights.

Why is he speaking out now? If he has been in favor of gay rights for years, why didn't he say something about it when it would have meant something? Would have done some good? He's a pandering, hypocritical piece of shit as well as a criminal who will eventually go to prison for the rest of his miserable life.

Having the most detested man in America (maybe the world) on your side, a man who let the country be attacked so he could kill a million Iraqis and thus make profits and gain power, a man who approved the torture of countless other human beings, a man who calls the current president of the US weak on terror and a danger to the country, is not a plus in any meaningful way. If having a degenerate sociopath on your side on one issue just because it hits close to home for him makes YOU feel good, that's your problem. I could imagine that Hitler was in favor of gay rights too. He was still an insane murderer, much like the guy you're toasting today.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. And he and I agree that pedophilia is abhorrent,
he's still an asshole.
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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. For all of you claiming Cheney is better than
Obama on gay rights...what the fuck did Cheney do for gays when he was in power?
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Indydem Donating Member (866 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well, not to nitpick...
...but what the hell has Obama done?

End DADT?
Support gay marriage?
Seek to repeal the DOMA?

None of the above????
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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'll tell you what every reasonable person has told those that
are stomping their feet and throwing tantrums because Obama hasn't resolved those issues in four fucking months. Be patient. There is still time left. Never mind. When he does get around to it, you'll just say he took too long. Some people will never be satisfied. Keep bitching. It's your right.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. nothing just like Ted Olson didn't do anything , they allowed the administration to
run their anti gay propaganda.

Obama may be guilty of not doing enough to support gay marriage, but he certainly isn't doing anything to stop the legalization of gay marriage going around the country nor will he try to push some bs anti gay marriage crap in congress as the administration cheney and olson worked for did.

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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Cheney never promised to be a fierce advocate nt
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well, only for daughter-Mary 'cause she's been so responsible for so long. n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. He's full of it, as always. "Union" and "arrangement" are code words for civil union and con-
Edited on Tue Jun-02-09 08:51 AM by No Elephants
tractual arrangements and his "base"--all 9% of them--would hear it that way. He never said he thought gays should have the RIGHT to MARRY, if they wished.

He said that the feds should not be making law on this--which is trure--but I never heard him oppose DOMA or DADT and he did not do that before the National Press Club, when he gave this answer, either. Unfortunately for the record, no one asked him the logical follow up to his statement, which would have been, "Then, is it your position that DOMA should be repealed?" JMA (Journalists, my ass).
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
31. amusing, because one of the reasons i remember
social conservatives voting against Kerry was because "OMG Kerry's gonna let the queers get married!!!!!!!"


i also remember the vitriol Dick had with his "don't you dare bring my gay daughter into this debate!" tirade...you all can applaud him if you want, but coming from him its just words with zero actions to back them up when he had a chance to....
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
35. And what if he didn't have a gay daughter?
Would we expect him to be against it? Does this mean that only those things you're personally affected by hold any weight? It seems principle rather than skin in the game should be the guide.

Anyway, congratulations to Cheney if this is true. He can subtract ten stabs from a pitchfork when he goes to hell, that only leaves something like a 100 million to go.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. He has never said gays had a RIGHT to MARRY, including yesterday. Never.
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oedura Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
42. I don't believe this garbage for a second...
He's just trying to seem like less of a monster to the people who want him tried for his war crimes.

First, if he really believed gay people should be allowed to get married, he'd drop that "it's a state issue" bullshit.

Second, the way he talked about his daughter even as he claimed to be for gay marriage leads me to believe that he hates homosexuals. Paraphrasing, "My daughter is a homosexual. It's something we've lived with in our family for years."

That's not an a positive endorsement. That's what you say about somebody in your family who's been afflicted with a burdensome illness or who's been convicted of some particularly unwholesome crime.

He's a lying sack of shit.
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Mojo_electro Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
44. For some reason...
I think I have a soft spot for Cheney.... maybe because he reminds me of General Grievous. :dunce:
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