US Helicopters in Haitian capital - Pacifica network live now

[alittlelark]

http://www.kpfa.org/

Have to listen live - Venezuela MAY have offered unilaterral support to Haiti, thus forcing US's hand

[Malva Zebrina]

1. Isn't it wonderful

Bush is giving this crisis sooooo much of his attention. It is in his way of traveling to get more money for his campaign.

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. Amazing, isn't it?

Live reports and helicopters swarming in... everyone should be listening to THIS reality show.

"FUCK BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[WillyT]

3. Thank You For The Heads-Up !!!

Listening now.

[Renew Deal]

5. Did we attack Venezuala?

What's happening?

[Cronus Protagonist]

6. Rumor has it that Venezuela may have...

...actually put its soldiers on the ground on Haitian soil to help defend the democratically elected government in Haiti. Just a rumor, but the thinking is that this played the US hand and the US sent in the troops to defeat Venezuela's supporting troops - from the only other country in the region that is also a democracy.

"FUCK BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. No, the helicopters are in Haiti.

CNN says the pResident might send the 24th Marine Battalion (?) to Haiti. They have to go to Camp LeJeune 1st for a couple of days. Then it's probably a couple of days from there. They'll get there in time to clean up all the bodies.

[htuttle]

8. It is unclear

The facts:
Eyewitness reports say US helicopters flew over Port-au-Prince and disppeared over the horizon. The DN reporter on the ground in Haiti had seen them himself, and was going to go investigate.

The Rumors:
Venezuela offered assistance to Aristide. Some say that some Venezuelan troops were already around the Palace.

Speculation is that the US may have sent in the helicopters, because they didn't want to be shown up by Venezuela (and would also lose all control over Aristide). Exactly what the US helicopters were going to do is also unknown. Perhaps they went in to help Aristide after all, perhaps they went in to perform some less-defined 'peace keeping' -- keeping themselves off of Aristide's 'side', or perhaps they were going to assess or confront the Venezuelan troops.

Other:
On Free Speech Radio News, immediately after the DN Haiti Report, they stated that there were reports that thousands of US troops had already landed in Haiti. However, official reports only speak of the 50 marines sent to the embassy.

Maxine Waters was on Pacifica, and said she thought that the US ships had been sent down there to prevent Haitian refugees from fleeing to Florida. She said that they had already returned a number of ships, skipping the entire refugee registration process where someone can apply for asylum.

That is all for now...

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. The only thing they might go in for

is to pick up Americans and staff from the embassy. Then sit back and watch the mess. We won't even have a ship in the area for at least 5-7 days, when it will be too late.

[tinanator]

11. thats just naive

this is ENTIRELY a US operation, particularly the magnificent control of information and dissemination of fairy tales. Unbelievable how many are buying into such an obvious, malicious and treacherous fantasy.

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. I wasn't talking about the US led

covert op that is underway. I was referring to Bu$h sending in US troops to help the Haitians. I understand very well who and what is behind this crap. That's why publicly, Bu$h will do as little as possible for as long as possible. Just like he did on 9-11.

[DuctapeFatwa]

13. Yesterday they had the marines "clear" Aristide's forces so that the

Canadians could get to the airport, according to CNN international last night.

[maxsolomon]

4. pacifica

the only real news on the radio.

go KBCS bellevue!

[htuttle]

10. Additional report

All flights into and out of Haiti have been cancelled. From FSRN on KPFA (stream).

[markses]

12. I remember Port-au-Prince

My father (an ex-navy man) used to point out the features of the US naval ships sitting out in the harbor (or whatever body of water it was that our yard overlooked). I remember them, long and gray out there. Dad used to give me the ranges on the guns.

Of course, this was when we used to go to the American school in Port-au-Prince, and to the beautiful beaches, and to a restaurant that was built around a mammoth miniature train set. Papa Doc times, with all the Euro and American colonials making it there like they never made it at home. I remember kindergarten in Port-au-Prince, and watching Columbo on TV, and thinking that the big statue to Christopher Columbus off the wide street near the school was in fact a statue of Columbo, the detective. I remember when my mother had to call the exterminator because a stone wall in our garden was covered with baby tarantulas. I remember my father and his business associates talking about the Ton Ton Macoute, and I remember having nightmares about them, though I didn't know what it meant. I remember a Haitian policeman twirling his pistol on a public street in Port-au-Prince. I remember getting in trouble in the American school because I urinated behind a tree in the grassy schoolyard. I remember a restaurant off on a pier at our favorite beach; whatever they were cooking there made the whole beach smell like really good fried chicken.

I remember Port-au-Prince.

[yellowcanine]

15. Pacifica reporter saying Venezuela may have forced U.S. hand

Everything is very muddled. I heard a long Pacifica report coming home from work. The rebels were claiming the U.S. helicopters were there to evacuate Aristide who had resigned. But Aristide issued a statement denying that he has resigned. Rumors in Port-au-Prince are that Venezuela was going to send troops to defend Aristide and the speculation is that the U.S. sent in the helicopters as a show of force to prevent that. However it appears that no one really knows what is going on. Pacifica was also interviewing John Conyers and Maxine Waters. They were very pissed at Colin Powell for saying Aristide should resign. The position of the Black Caucus in Congress is that the U.S. should defend Aristide against the rebels as he was democratically elected. They apparently talked to Powell and/or Bush two days ago and no indication was given that the U.S. was going to call for Aristide to resign. Shouldn't Bush be telling the rebels to stop attacking? Does Bush condone violent overthrow of democratically elected governments, however inept they may be?

On edit: From what I have read the last couple of days, these rebels are themselves a bunch of thugs so what do the people of Haiti gain by exchanging Aristide for them?

[DuctapeFatwa]

16. This sounds a lot like what they tried to do in Venezuela

I'm not sure if the US wants Haiti a a base from which to attack Venezuela for the oil, Cuba for expansion of the popular Gitmo project and an old fashioned Victory over Communism photo-op for bush's "campaign," or simply to reduce the population of Haiti.

[lostnfound]

17. The people of Haiti have no choice in the matter..

I think the majority of Aristide's support comes from people too poor to buy guns.

[Judi Lynn]

20. You're right.

There have been articles written in the last week pointing to U.S. supplying weapons and training to opposition members in the Dominican Republic.

It starts to look like a replay of our own right-wing extremist, elitists, lead by some of the ex-aides to Senator Jesse Helms trying to reverse the choice made by Bill Clinton to protect and support President Aristide, whom he assisted back to his office after the right-wing supported coup in the l990's.

Really pathetic.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(snip) Published on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 by DemocracyNow.org
Haiti’s Lawyer: US Is Arming Anti-Aristide Paramilitaries, Calls For UN Peacekeepers
by Amy Goodman and Jeremy Scahill

The US lawyer representing the government of Haiti charged today that the US government is directly involved in a military coup attempt against the country’s democratically elected President, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. Ira Kurzban, the Miami-based attorney who has served as General Counsel to the Haitian government since 1991, said that the paramilitaries fighting to overthrow Aristide are being backed by Washington.

“I believe that this is a group that is armed by, trained by, and employed by the intelligence services of the United States,” Kurzban told the national radio and TV program Democracy Now!. “This is clearly a military operation, and it's a military coup.”

“There's enough indications from our point of view, at least from my point of view, that the United States certainly knew what was coming about two weeks before this military operation started,” Kurzban said. “ The United States made contingency plans for Guantanamo.”

If a direct US connection is proven, it will mark the second time in just over a decade that Washington has been involved in a coup in Haiti.

Several of the paramilitary leaders now rampaging Haiti are men who were at the forefront of the US-backed campaign of terror during the 1991-94 coup against Aristide. Among the paramilitary figures now leading the current insurrection is Louis Jodel Chamblain, the former number 2 man in the FRAPH paramilitary death squad.
(snip/...)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0225-10.htm

[Judi Lynn]

18. Unexpected remarks from the New York Times

(snip) Latin America's uprisings




The New York Times



Rebel efforts to oust President Jean-Bertrand Aristide of Haiti fit a troubling pattern across Latin America. For years, democratically elected presidents in the region were routinely deposed through military coups. Today, many elected leaders continue to see their terms cut short, but through popular uprisings aimed at their removal, like the one in Haiti. Not long ago, Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada was ousted as president of Bolivia after widespread protests stemming from a natural gas deal. In 2001, President Fernando de la Rúa of Argentina resigned halfway through his term after protests about the economy. Today, in addition to efforts to depose Aristide, large groups of citizens or foreign governments are calling for the resignation of Hugo Chávez in Venezuela and Alejandro Toledo in Peru.
.
Such demands seek to short-circuit the democratic process. Usually occurring in the most unfortunate countries, they degrade institutions, polarize politics and impede the continuity necessary for growth. Even when constitutions provide for referendums and other mechanisms to remove a president early, they should be invoked only in extreme circumstances.
.
Early removal is most appropriate when presidents are fraudulently elected. One example is Alberto Fujimori's resignation in Peru in 2000. Corruption scandals were the immediate cause, but Fujimori would not have been so widely resented had he not stolen elections earlier in the year, and his ouster was correctly seen as just.
.
For legitimately elected leaders, however, the bar for early removal must be set very high. Toledo's sin in Peru is that he is weak and apparently corrupt - not a good enough reason for yet another interruption of democracy. The opposition to Chávez, whose autocratic leanings and populist demagogy have divided Venezuela in two, has yet to show he has crossed the line into tyranny. He survived large national strikes directed at his ouster last year. Chávez wrote a constitution that included the possibility of a referendum on his rule. If he is to leave office early, a referendum should be the only acceptable means.
(snip/...)

http://www.petroleumworld.com/Edit4Feb27.htm

[lostnfound]

19. "Early removal most appropriate when presidents are fraudulently elected"?

Oh please, can you, can you?

The irony has never been deeper.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Isn't that a kick in the head? n/t

[Just Me]

22. Damnit!!! I have screamed to all corners I can reach,....

,...to take a stand for democracy and fight this obvious corporate tyranny!!! This must be carefully followed as proof that there is a despotic murderous capitalist cabal that does NOT give a DAMN about "freedom" or "democracy" or "liberation" or "equality" or any of those illusions they create to maintain control over the masses.

We have got to take on these sick, self-serving, death-brokers!!! If ever a devil exists, these CIA-oily-armament dealers are the epitomy of pure EVIL!!!!

[DuctapeFatwa]

23. bush was right

evildoers who hate freedom