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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:52 PM
Original message
4th grader presses Rice on waterboarding.
Edited on Sun May-03-09 09:54 PM by kpete
Source: Washington Post

4th grader presses Rice on waterboarding.

Days after telling students at Stanford University that waterboarding was legal "by definition if it was authorized by the president," former secretary of state Condoleezza Rice was pressed again on the subject yesterday by a fourth-grader at a Washington school.

..................

Then Misha Lerner, a student from Bethesda, asked: What did Rice think about the things President Obama's administration was saying about the methods the Bush administration had used to get information from detainees?

...........................

"Let me just say that President Bush was very clear that he wanted to do everything he could to protect the country. After September 11, we wanted to protect the country," she said. "But he was also very clear that we would do nothing, nothing, that was against the law or against our obligations internationally. So the president was only willing to authorize policies that were legal in order to protect the country."

She added: "I hope you understand that it was a very difficult time. We were all so terrified of another attack on the country. September 11 was the worst day of my life in government, watching 3,000 Americans die. . . . Even under those most difficult circumstances, the president was not prepared to do something illegal, and I hope people understand that we were trying to protect the country."

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. "After September 11, we wanted to protect
the country," Too bad about before September 11.
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KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. Yeah, her "National Security Advisor" ass didn't do jack before 9/11 - even with a warning.
As counter-terror guy Richard Clarke has said and published in "Against All Enemies".

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. She sounds very defensive.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Ms. Rice: When the STASI did these same things, and less
painful, less physically abusive things, we called it torture.

The prison population consisted of people who had tried to flee the GDR or were considered to have offered resistance to the regime. Prisoners were held until they signed a confession and/or provided information useful to the regime, and the techniques employed by the Stasi ensured that pretty much everyone complied in the end. In the early days of the prison, the Stasi employed mostly physical methods - prisoners were held in damp, cold cells and subjected to various types of torture, including sleep deprivation, standing upright for several hours and water torture. From about 1960, however, the Stasi began employing psychological methods to break prisoners' resistance. The East German government was concerned about its international image, and it was preferable if information could be coerced from prisoners without leaving marks on their bodies.

http://thereback.blogspot.com/2005/09/visit-to-stasi-pr...

It was torture. It was illegal. Ms. Rice knows that. She is in denial. It is very difficult to admit to yourself that you have condoned or done something seriously wrong.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. "...We were all so terrified..." I hope that she and her cronies are terrified NOW.
It's going to be very hard to hide from the Bush legacy, Dr. Rice.

Hekate


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WarhammerTwo Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. She just admitted the terroists won.
She said they TERRIFIED us. That's the jobs of terrorists. To terrify. And by terrifying us, we threw our Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our Declaration of Independence into a paper shredder. Because they successfully terrorized us, we stooped to their level. We became extremists. We became just. Like. Them. They won. No matter how much that administration said we were winning the War on Terra, Ms. Rice just confirmed we lost. Can we please get the hell out of there now?
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Wow.
Edited on Sun May-03-09 11:04 PM by Leftist Agitator
Nail, meet head of hammer. Particularly with respect to:

"She said they TERRIFIED us. That's the jobs of terrorists."

And may I say, a hale and hearty Welcome to DU to you, Madam or Sir!

:hi:
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. LOL - wow ya got something backward there - WarhammerTwo joined 2-1/2 years before YOU did!
.
.
.

WarhammerTwo joined Aug 06th 2004

you joined May 24th 2007

by comparison, YOU are the "newbie"!!

:hi:

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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
34. And then Bush turned around and TERRIFIED the American
people for another eight years and counting...I witnessed Dick on TV just the other day saying that the TERRORISTS would be back IF Obama released more torture information or tried to investigate the past BushCo illegality.

terrorism

the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism



"done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear" ...Like fake Terra-lerts? Like Lying about "Mushroom Clouds and WMDs? Like using FOX to scare anybody who is still stupid enough to watch such bullshit and believe any part of it?

Dokkktor Rice is as guilty as Bush and Cheney and a terrorist shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a fourth grader in a safe and sane world.


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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. That's pretty much how I saw it too. When the London Tube got bombed, an old lady...
... who was interviewed basically said that what was needed was for them to all keep a stiff upper lip and go about their business as usual, and that since they managed to survive the Blitz some 60 years ago and the IRA more recently they could survive whatever was going on now.

But not us. With the help of the Nekkid Emperor and Bunker-Boy Cheney we were all too busy making fun of the French for being cheese-eating surrender monkeys (the French having fought the Germans in 2 World Wars until the Americans got around to joining the fight, as well as living through the terrorism of the Algerian nationalists blowing up cafes in France). I went googling for a link and found that Molly Ivins said the same thing years before she died, only so much better, so here's the link to dear Molly's essay. http://www.creators.com/opinion/molly-ivins/molly-ivins...

I watched my government and my leaders encourage our young to join the military and the rest of us to crawl in a hole and pull it in after us, while using the Constitution for toilet paper. God damn them for the miserable cowards they are. I hope none of them ever knows a peaceful night's rest again.

Welcome to DU, Warhammer.

Hekate


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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
40. Rice is being disingenuous (lying).
Edited on Mon May-04-09 08:22 AM by Piewhacket
Al-Qaeda didn't terrify me.
Their act on 911 was a message of war, sure.
The targets were the message, loud and clear. A chilling message.
I got it immediately. Didn't Rice get it? Like hell she didn't.

Yet I never had the slightest doubt we could and would handle those
who attacked us. No, Al-Qaeda did not terrorize me.

But what happened next was the terror, as in some seemingly
incompetent and mindless response to "terrorism" our country was destroyed,
all the values underlying our greatness, every institution of democracy,
and all rule of law was systematically dismantled, wrecked, destroyed.

But it wasn't about Al-Qaeda. That was window dressing as 911 was treated
as a Reichstag fire, a grab for political power.
No other consideration was evident because none was present.
No wonder it all was ineffective and made no sense at all as a 'war on terror',
because it was never about that. It was 100% political advantage, whatever cost.

No, Al-Qaeda didn't terrify us.
The insane whack-outs in the Bush Administration and their response
terrorized us. Their response was intended to terrorize us.
Al-Qaeda weren't the terrorists.
Bush and Cheney and Rice and those who helped them were
the true threat, the true enemy. They were the terrorists.
Do you even slightly doubt it?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. And we have a winnah! Welcome.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. Of course she's terrified. She's facing a life sentence.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. She was warned prior to 9/11. Why didn't she act?
She's trying to use 9/11 as a shield against criticism for torture. "We were in a pressure cooker trying to defend America!"

No, Dr. Rice. That won't fly.

She was warned. She did not act.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think that fourth grader fried Rice.
Do you have black folks living in Brazil? (Remember that golden "W" moment as Prez?)
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. so the Bush administration wasn't interested in protecting the country
before 9/11, just after. Gotcha, Condi.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. BEFORE 9/11, they were CONCOCTING their plans.
.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
10.  believe the bush admin couldn't come up with anything else to do except torture, and
shock and awe with the blunt force of Empire.

Anything subtle or nuanced wasn't an option, because it wasn't even considered.

Condi was so shocked by 911 that she decided then and there, lets get Saddam, even though we know it wasn't his doing.

Why torture at Abu Garab when Saddam had nothing to do with the 911? Wrong number?



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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. Which begs the question: Why would the president have to authorize something that was already legal?
That's what I wanna know!
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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ms. Rice: How does it feel to know you must restrict your travel?
She's on the short-list for possible international prosecution for war crimes. And the bad part? She's not sure exactly where she can - and cannot - go.

Shame on you, Ms. Rice. Shame.
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PetrusMonsFormicarum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. When today's 4th graders
know what waterboarding is, our job is basically done for us.

The history of the Bush regime will always bear this stamp of shame.
It's the cruelest punishment for those who cared so much about their legacy. :cry: :nopity:
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. She's really had a lot of practice side-stepping questions. How would that play under oath in court?
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
50. How sweet it would be to see her justify her lies at the Hague nt
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Nosmanic Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. Hmmm
Legal because the president says it is sounds familiar.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. "Rice teaches 4th graders that torture is good!"
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Rice is a pathetic human being. She has no regard for humans in the classes beneath her. nm
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. We have 4th graders who are more intelligent and more inquisitive than most of
Congress. That's why...

:patriot:

...still means something to me. I love our people, our country, and our progressive and democratic ideals. But our corpo/fascist rulers have become so mindbogglingly corrupt and such goddamned liars that I just want to :puke: when they dare to wrap themselves in the flag and claim to be "protecting the country." They have sold our country down the river.
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DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
20. She Gave That Answer To A 4th Grader?
What was she thinking. Besides, she ducked the question. That poor 4th grader has to be bewildered with that answer. And why were they pre-screening the questions?

Of course the salent point is why did the Bush administration let down their guard in the weeks and months before 9/11. The August 6, 2001 PDB was a strong warning, yet neither Rice nor Bush did anything to prevent the attack that this PDB warned about. Nor did they do anything about the constant warnings from Richard Clarke. History will not treat Dr. Rice kindly.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
56. I am sure a 2th or 3th Grader could of asked a similar salient question
The excuse for being stupid knows no age limit. But that was just the effing lie they were using. What the Bush administration did was premeditated or possibly worse.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. Hmm, so now Condi, like Cheney, won't keep her mouth shut
Keep talking, Condi... :popcorn:
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. I'd say it's a case of nerves
:popcorn:
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
52. could it be they are pointing the finger at bush? sounds like they are laying the blame
at his feet. saying that he authorized it!!!
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InfiniteThoughts Donating Member (322 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
22. just saying ...
the 4th grader has more guts than the Obama admin, congress & the senate put together
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
23. the comments that follow are BRUTAL
Wow.

I urge you to read through them all.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
27. "After September 11, we wanted to protect the country."
As you remember, she refused to appear before the commission, even going on 60 Minutes a few days before to claim she was standing on a very important principle: "A longstanding principle that sitting national security advisers do not testify before the Congress."

Uh huh. . .

Following is a transcript of National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice's testimony before the September 11 Commission on Thursday, April 8, as recorded by The New York Times:

RICE. I remember very well that the president was aware that there were issues inside the United States. He'd talked to people about this. But I don't remember the al Qaeda cells as being something that we were told we needed to do something about.

BEN-VENISTE. Isn't it a fact, Dr. Rice, that the Aug. 6 P.D.B. warned against possible attacks in this country? And I ask you whether you recall the title of that P.D.B.

RICE. I believe the title was Bin Laden Determined To Attack Inside the United States. Now, the P.D.B. -

BEN-VENISTE. Thank you.

RICE. No, Mr. Ben-Veniste -

BEN-VENISTE. I will get into the -

RICE. I would like to finish my point here.

BEN-VENISTE. I didn't know there was a point.

RICE. Given that - you asked me whether or not it warned of attacks.

BEN-VENISTE. I asked you what the title was.

RICE. You said did it not warn of attacks. It did not warn of attacks inside the United States. It was historical information based on old reporting. There was no new threat information. And it did not, in fact, warn of any coming attacks inside the United States.

BEN-VENISTE. Now, you knew by August 2001 of al Qaeda involvement in the first World Trade Center bombing. Is that correct? You knew that in 1999, late '99, in the millennium threat period, that we had thwarted an al Qaeda attempt to blow up Los Angeles International Airport and thwarted cells operating in Brooklyn, N.Y. and Boston, Mass. as of the Aug. 6 briefing. You learned that al Qaeda members have resided or traveled to the United States for years and maintained a support system in the United States. And you learned that F.B.I. information since the 1998 blind sheik warning of hijackings to free the blind sheik indicated a pattern of suspicious activity in the country up until Aug. 6 consistent with preparation for hijackings. Isn't that so?

RICE. Do you have other questions that you want me to answer as a part of the sequence?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/politics/08RICE-TEXT....

And then on to the filibustering.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. Re-reading her 9/11 testimony, I find it even worse than I did initially.
Bordering on treasonous in its self-serving sophistry.
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
28. Someone should have asked if Rice was smarter than a fourth grader.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
29. Did torture give you the answers you wanted, Condi? You know, the ones
you and the rest of the * cabal wanted to hear? The ones that would justify the invasion of Iraq? Oh, and the ones that would be used for the 9/11 Commission, the ones used for your prima facie case against al Qaeda? It astounds me that you were so terrified by what happened on 9/11 that you and the rest of the cabal were dead set against any INVESTIGATION of it. So much so you put it off for two years. So much so you eventually had to put one of your own close associates and confidants in place as the behind-the scenes Executive Director, who also kept in close contact with Carl Rove -- and who used "minders" to make sure testimony given to the Commission didn't go outside certain prescribed boundaries. And speaking of testimony, how about that Bush and Cheney testimony, hugh? Together, in secret, not under oath, no records kept. Yeah, you all were SO terrified of those questions.

Here's what I want to say to you, Ms Rice: HOW DARE YOU! How dare you use the deaths of 3,000 citizens -- 3,000 citizens who lost their lives EITHER to your criminal negligence OR something far more sinister -- to justify the use of TORTURE!
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bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
31. "We didn't torture, and the reason we tortured was that we were terrified.
And we only tortured a little. Try to understand that."

:crazy:
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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
32. A noun, a verb and "protect the country."
Rudy, with his "All 911, all the time." McCain with "my friends, this isn't change we can believe in....and btw...did I mention I was a POW?" Is this Condi and the new Mantra of the Day?

I predict that at least the front-line GOP shock troops are each going be given a (perceived) useful phrase which they will repeat like the Kenner gooney bird when occasion demands. Just trot out the right.....er....correct gooney bird and hopefully, Polly gets the cracker.

Are these people THAT simple-minded? Uhhhh....yeah.

It would be great theater, though.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
35. Could that woman be more full of shit?
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. 4th Graders: Smarter Than the Average Republican
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jkappy Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. Is her teacher about to be fired---would love to meet her/him
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urgk Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
37. I guess it taked a real 4th grader to show the ideological 4th graders of the mainstream media...
how to ask a pointed question.

I wish he would have been allowed to have a follow-up though.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
38. "the president was not prepared to do something illegal"
Of course he wasn't, Condi........

:eyes:
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
39. Poor Condi. She's going to have to stop making these kind of appearances
if people continue to ask such rude, inconvenient questions. She'll be stuck in her house, absently plinking keys on the piano and staring at her awesome shoe collection.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. Dr. Rice will take immediate action!
"Okay Sol, quit booking me before fourth graders. Little pischers are too savvy. I need a nice group of second graders for my next major policy address. And none of those 'accelerated' classes. I want the ones wearing helmets and mittens and riding the short bus. Got it? Or do I need to get another manager?"
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
41. And yet when many Americans lost their lives in NO she went shoe shopping.
I guess when one is involved in so much death it gets boring after awhile.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
42. Dear rice; waterboarding is in fact ILLEGAL under US law.
Waterboarding is in fact TORTURE.

Are ya REALLY that stupid, rice???
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
43. if i was a teacher
i wouldn't let that slime within 100 yards of my students. :puke:

good on the girl for asking, but really, rice is always, always going to lie and then what? who's going to set that student straight, stand up and say, please stop lying to the children? nobody.
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John Kerry VonErich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
46. Here is something interesting from another site....
"The worst part of the story is that the question Misha originally intended to ask was screened out as too harsh, so the softer version, without the word "torture," was used. When fourth-graders are pulling their punches or, rather, having them pulled your position is pretty shaky."

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/05/04/condoleezza-ric...
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. Way to teach a fourth grader that the end justifies the means, that your own fear justifies whatever
you want to do.

Honestly, when are these morans going to sit down and shut up? Don't open your mouth again, unless it is to plead the 5th in court, K?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
49. Oh Condi... you will always be known as a Liar and a Fascist
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
53. There's nowhere to hide -- schoolchildren are everywhere!
LOL!

Next thing, a kindergartner will start waterboarding Condi. ;-)
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mokawanis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
54. War criminals always justify their actions
Fuck you, Rice. Rot in jail.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:07 PM
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55. It must suck to be upstaged morally by a 4th grader.
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