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Document: Military Agency Called Harsh Methods 'Torture,' Questioned Their Effectiveness

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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 05:41 PM
Original message
Document: Military Agency Called Harsh Methods 'Torture,' Questioned Their Effectiveness
Source: Washington Post

The military agency that helped to devise harsh interrogation techniques for use against terrorism suspects referred to the application of extreme duress as "torture" in a July 2002 document sent to the Pentagon's chief lawyer and warned that it would produce "unreliable information."

"The unintended consequence of a U.S. policy that provides for the torture of prisoners is that it could be used by our adversaries as justification for the torture of captured U.S. personnel," says the document, an unsigned two-page attachment to a memo by the military's Joint Personnel Recovery Agency. Parts of the attachment, obtained in full by The Washington Post, were quoted in a Senate report on harsh interrogation released this week.

It remains unclear whether the attachment reached high-ranking officials in the Bush administration. But the document offers the clearest evidence that has come to light so far that those who helped formulate the harsh interrogation techniques voiced early concerns about the effectiveness of applying severe physical or psychological pressure.

The document was included among July 2002 memoranda that described severe interrogation techniques used against Americans in past conflicts and the psychological effects of such treatment. JPRA ran the military program known as Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE), which trains pilots and others to resist hostile questioning.

The cautionary attachment was forwarded to the Pentagon's Office of the General Counsel as the administration finalized the legal underpinnings to a CIA interrogation program that would sanction the use of ten forms of coercion, including waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning. The JPRA material was sent from the Pentagon to the CIA's acting General Counsel, John Rizzo, and on to the Justice Department, according to testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042403171.html?hpid=topnews
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
nt
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. wow...
This is pretty bad stuff... To be clear, I am not saying that they are good guys.. I hate them.. but I don't think Reagan, Bush 1, or the people around them would have done this. The W clan was/is totally immoral and corrupt.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Reagan has a bloody filthy history which corporate media concealed:
Reagan: Visions of the Damned (Part One)
by Media Lens
www.dissidentvoice.org
June 11, 2004

~snip~
Reagan was, Esler insisted, “a man who was loved even by his political opponents in this country and abroad”. At times Esler portrayed Reagan almost as an enlightened being, quoting Nancy Reagan to the effect that her husband “had absolutely no ego”.

Writing in the Daily Mail, Esler went further, presenting the egoless Reagan as a self-help guru: “above all, Ronald Wilson Reagan embodied the best of the American spirit - the optimistic belief that problems can and will be solved, that tomorrow will be better than today, and that our children will be wealthier and happier than we are.” (Esler, ‘The Great Communicator’, Daily Mail, June 7, 2004)

Last December, the Guardian reported that senior BBC journalists and presenters had been banned from commenting on "current affairs and contentious issues" in newspaper and magazine columns. Journalists would be able to pen “non-contentious articles and food, film and music reviews”, Jason Deans noted. (Deans, “BBC confirms ban on columnists,” The Guardian, December 16, 2003)

~snip~
Reagan’s eight years in office (1981-89) resulted in a vast bloodbath as Washington funneled money, weapons and other supplies to client dictators and right wing death squads across Central America. The death toll was staggering: more than 70,000 political killings in El Salvador, more than 100,000 in Guatemala, and 30,000 killed in the US Contra war waged against Nicaragua. Journalist Allan Nairn describes it as “One of the most intensive campaigns of mass murder in recent history.” (Democracy Now, June 8, 2004)

Analyst Chalmers Johnson notes that “the Reagan years {were} the worst decade for Central America since the Spanish conquest.” (Quoted, Milan Rai, War Plan Iraq, Verso, 2002, p.29)

Consider the fate of El Salvador.

In the eighteen-month period leading up elections in El Salvador in March 1982, twenty-six journalists were murdered. In December 1981 the Salvadoran Communal Union reported that eighty-three of its members had been murdered by government security forces and death squads. The entire six-person top leadership of the main opposition party, the FDR, was seized by US-backed government security forces in 1980, tortured, murdered and mutilated. More generally, any left-wing political leader or organizer who gained any kind of prominence in El Salvador in the years 1980-83 was liable to be murdered. Between October 1979 and March 1982, killings of ordinary citizens occurred at the average rate of over 800 per month, on conservative estimates.

~snip~
Between 1980 and 1983, Amnesty International “received regular, often daily, reports identifying El Salvador’s regular security and military units as responsible for the torture, ‘disappearance’ and killing of noncombatant civilians from all sectors of society.” Moreover, “the vast majority of the victims” were “characterised by their association or alleged association with peasant, labour or religious organisations, with human rights monitoring groups, with the trade union movement, with refugee or relief organisations, or with political parties.” (Quoted, Mark Curtis, The Ambiguities of Power, Zed Books, 1995, p.161)

This was at a time when the US was directing vast amounts of military aid into the country.

The terror continued throughout the decade. In November 1989, six Jesuit priests, their cook and her daughter, were murdered by the army. That same week, at least 28 other Salvadoran civilians were murdered, including the head of a major union, the leader of the organization of university women, nine members of an Indian farming cooperative and ten university students.

The Jesuits were murdered by the Atlacatl Battalion, created, trained and equipped by the United States. It was formed in March 1981, when fifteen specialists in counterinsurgency were sent to El Salvador from the US Army School of Special Forces. The Battalion was consistently engaged in mass killing. A US trainer described its soldiers as “particularly ferocious... We've always had a hard time getting them to take prisoners instead of ears.” (Quoted, Noam Chomsky, What Uncle Sam Really Wants, Odonian Press, 1993)

In December 1981, the Battalion killed a thousand civilians in a massacre that involved murder, rape and burning. Later, it was involved in the bombing of villages and the murder of hundreds of civilians by shooting, drowning and other horrors. The majority of its victims were women, children and the elderly.

The results of Salvadoran military training were graphically described in the Jesuit journal, America, by Daniel Santiago, a Catholic priest working in El Salvador. Santiago told of a peasant woman who came home one day to find her three children, her mother and her sister sitting around a table, each with its own decapitated head placed carefully on the table in front of the body, the hands arranged on top “as if each body was stroking its own head.”

The killers, from the Salvadoran National Guard, had struggled to keep the head of an 18-month-old baby in place, so its hands were nailed onto it. A large plastic bowl filled with blood stood in the centre of the table. Noam Chomsky comments:
“According to Rev. Santiago, macabre scenes of this kind aren't uncommon. People are not just killed by death squads in El Salvador-they are decapitated and then their heads are placed on pikes and used to dot the landscape. Men are not just disembowelled by the Salvadoran Treasury Police; their severed genitalia are stuffed into their mouths. Salvadoran women are not just raped by the National Guard; their wombs are cut from their bodies and used to cover their faces. It is not enough to kill children; they are dragged over barbed wire until the flesh falls from their bones, while parents are forced to watch.” (Ibid)
More:
http://dissidentvoice.org/June04/MediaLens0611.htm

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow! There goes Rizzo's plausible deniability....
It is a very clear, unambiguous statement laying out to Rizzo and the Justice Department that what they were contemplating torture and how using torture would NOT gain them reliable and accurate information.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. And Haynes. He was the Pentagon lawyer.
Who the ef do you have to be to do R&D for a TORTURE program.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. It is interesting the beginning contact with SERE was in 2001...
long before anyone of "high value" was captured. I am hoping more documents are found that show exactly what was being asked by the Pentagon to SERE in 2001. Was it details on the techniques ie the how-to do it? We now know they were NOT asking about the efficacy of the program in terms of accurate and usable intelligence so what, exactly, were they asking?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I thought I read that they were asking how the Chinese or the Koreans
extracted confessions (maybe in Andy's article at HuffPo yesterday?).

Which makes Scott Shane's claim (NYTs, Thursday) that is was all Tenet pushing the program and Tenet not knowing the history of these tactics 100% pure manure. Because it was not Tenet, it was Haynes at the Pentagon probably under orders from Rumsfeld.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Here is a 2006 article from Slate re Haynes and Rumsfeld...
"When the Abu Ghraib scandal hit in the summer of 2004, two of the administration's most senior lawyers—White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales and the Defense Department's General Counsel Jim Haynes—stood before the world's media and laid out the official explanation for newly aggressive interrogation within the U.S. military: It was the result of a bottom-up request from an aggressive combatant commander at Guantanamo; it was implemented within the law and on the basis of careful legal advice; and it produced useful and important results. These new techniques had been essential in getting vital security information from men they labeled "the worst of the worst."

A memo Gonzales and Haynes made public that day sketched out this move to military cruelty. Written by Haynes and signed by Donald Rumsfeld on Dec. 2, 2002, the document discarded a military prohibition on cruelty promulgated by President Lincoln as long ago as 1863. Haynes' memo recommended 15 new techniques, including nudity and forced grooming, humiliation and deception, dogs, sleep deprivation, and stress positions like standing for up to four hours. Three other techniques—including water-boarding—were not given blanket approval, although their future use in individual cases was not rejected, either. Rumsfeld approved the memo, scribbling next to his signature authorizing these techniques the observation, "However, I stand for 8-10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?""

http://www.slate.com/id/2193856




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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. That's amazing, isn't it? So, Cheney/Rumsfeld have moved the goalposts
from "bad apples" at the lower end of the food chain all the way up to Tenet!
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. From all the op/eds, columns, etc, being written in recent days by ...
the defenders of the Bush administration, their intent is to try and limit their 'liability' by repeating the false message it began at the CIA level and the CIA are responsible for all decision-making that resulted in the implementation of the "Plan".

They will fail in this attempt, the facts have already proven their claims false.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Precisely. Tenet must still be mad about the last time Cheney pulled this
on him about 9/11 and then about the "bad intelligence" that led to the invasion of Iraq. I doubt he'll go for a Round 3 of this treatment.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Posted in GD-P, the full text of the document.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Office of the General Counsel?
Any relation to the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans?
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. USA keeps itself from getting captured by shooting anything and everything from afar
.
.
.

"smart bombs"

drones

snipers

not much "face to face" going on in the US military

cuz if they ever get caught in the numbers that would happen if they fought like the "other guys" . . .

bet ur ass they would get tortured just for revenge - never mind getting information . .

USA military has made MILLIONS of enemies with it's global domination,

and the revealed tortures during the last 8 years will hound the USA forever unless the USA itself vigorously prosecutes and incarcerates the war criminals of the last administration.

Look at History - Japan and Germany STILL are suffering reputation loss from the World Wars.

USA will NOT escape history, even though they try to rewrite it and ignore it.

The rest of the World KNOWS

Internets killed PNACs dream

Thank gawd!(ess)

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Jesus
just....

just, I don't even know what to say
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's torture; it doesn't work; but here are the ways that you do it--and shhhh.
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choie Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. okay, this story was "dumped" on a Friday Night
why the hell isn't this headline news, at least on the internet (e.g. Yahoo, etc.)?
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Oh but it does work -- if all you are looking for are false confessions.
And that is exactly what they needed to justify their lying us into Iraq.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm sure the Freepers will be blaming the troops and veterans for calling it
torture now. All those who weren't deliberately maligned by Napalatino for being right wing extremists of course.

One more loop to that logic and some of them will be found strangulated by their Support the Troops truck magnets!
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. From the Document
(U) CONCLUSION: The application of extreme physical and/or psychological duress (torture)


I am glad it is finally admitted. Extreme psychological duress has been defined by the Bush Administration as Torture.









I've heard many here say they wished Bush and Cheney would be prosecuted and put in a cell with no windows, to never see daylight again.

Here is what could be worse;
To be isolated in a cell with a window and a TV.

To be reminded by the news and the ads of holidays all in America celebrate. Like July 4, with the grand celebration of freedom. Christmas and Thanksgiving with family and friends.
No fresh vegetables to eat except on a rare occasion.

Memories of seasons with quail hunting and clearing brush.
No visitors and zero privacy. Noise that interrupts their sleep or their thoughts.

They could spend the rest of their lives watching Life go on without them being able to participate. Talking to themselves with nobody to ever have an actual real conversation with.

Seeing trees bloom and hearing birds sing. Longing for freedom to enjoy the simple pleasure of being human.


Feeling their selves going MAD.






Or they could be Hanged which is what I'd prefer.
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