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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 06:42 AM
Original message
Chavez wants new, 'rational' relations with U.S.
Source: Associated Press

Chavez wants new, 'rational' relations with U.S.
Sunday, April 5, 2009 3:42 AM
By Rachel Jones
ASSOCIATED PRESS

CARACAS, Venezuela -- President Hugo Chavez said yesterday he hopes to "reset" relations with the United States at an upcoming summit.

Despite recent criticism of President Barack Obama, Chavez said he wants to bring relations between the two governments back to a "rational level."

"I'll be willing to press the reset button," he said in a telephone call to Venezuelan state television from Iran. "I hope that will be the policy of President Obama."

Venezuela's relations with Washington grew strained under Chavez and former President George W. Bush, who was quick to back a failed 2002 coup attempt against Chavez. In September, Chavez expelled the U.S. ambassador and withdrew Venezuela's envoy to Washington.

Read more: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/national_world/stories/2009/04/05/ap_venezuela_0405.ART_ART_04-05-09_A9_9HDF7FT.html?sid=101
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. President Fox of Mexico refused to recognize the "installed government" in Venezuela,...
...and then things started to unravel for the Beast/Cheneys. Chavez reclaimed power after having been abducted and held on an island on the coast of Venezuela.

In case anybody here wonders why Chavez holds a grudge against US.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. I love this film! THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED
Edited on Sun Apr-05-09 11:28 AM by L. Coyote
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

What he said long ago, early in the film, is more meaningful in retrospect.

"We were being taken over by the savage project of neo-liberalism with its claim that there is a hidden hand which regulates the market. It's a lie." CHAVEZ
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. I watch that film whenever I forget the details and always find something new.
One detail that stayed with me last time was the fact that the right wing nutcases emptied out the safe at Miraflores as they fled because their coup was going down in flames. When Chavez comes back and is going to make a statement, the sound system is down. "Did they take that, too?"

lol
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I watch it ever time a thread bashes Chavez! LOL
It is so realistic, first hand and in the moment, gonzo.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. I will have to watch it when I get home
No video streaming for the cube-rats!
My recollection was from Greg Palast on Amy Goodman's "Democracy Now" show.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. good. that's productive language.
Let's hope that both sides can help realign this relationship.
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Royal Oak Rog Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. I know there's a lot here who hate Chavez
Edited on Sun Apr-05-09 07:00 AM by Royal Oak Rog
But anyone who's Fox News Networks number one enemy can't be all bad. Naturalized relations between us and Venezuela can only do good!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. Then why doesn't he act 'rational'? He's an idiot whose neighbors hate him. nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Chavez neighbors don't hate him. Where did you get that idea?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Don't you read this guy's posts? He makes crap up as he goes along
and then when confronted, disappears.

Like this thread.
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clixtox Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Any names of those neighbors who "hate" Hugo Chavez?

I don't believe that your statement is correct in any regard.

Hugo Chavez is consummately adept politically and is by all accounts an intelligent person.

Those who might hate him do so because of his emphasis on the plight and welfare of the average Venezuelan worker.

Rational?

To impugn his rationality in a hit and run post is only indicative of your bias, nothing else!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. That guy that Obama said he loved last week, Lula, is a great friend of Chavez.


Correa and Morales, good friends of Chavez



New prez in Paraguay, good friend of Chavez. There's a video of them singing and dancing around here somewhere.



The one who has trouble with neighbors is Bush's lapdog Uribe whose paramilitaries routinely violate everyone's borders and whose internal problams spill over into Venezuela and Ecuador.



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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. You forgot his main friends... Are you sitting?... Ready for it?.... Here it comes....
Edited on Sun Apr-05-09 12:03 PM by Mika
The (((gaSP))) CASTRO BROTHERS (((OH NOES!!11!!)))


We're doomed, I tell ya.. DOOMED!














Oops. Forgot this.. :sarcasm:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Now you done it -- the cat is out of the bag!
lol
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Nipper1959 Donating Member (322 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. He does act rationally
I think reclaiming the land from the big land owners that took it from the people is a very rational thing to do. I think going after the big companies that took every thing from the country and gave nothing back is a rational thing to do. I think caring first about the poor over the rich is a rational thing to do. I think giving oil to poor areas in the US is a rational thing to do.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. which neighbours are those?
The Bolivians? The Cubans? Hmm?? Oh! No, the US-supported right wing (illegitimate) government of Columbia hates him.... that makes him an idiot. I see. Is he the smartest man in the world? Probably not by a long shot, but show me one leader in the world right now who's doing a better job taking care of all of their citizens in this shit storm of an economy.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. Wow. Flame bait. Should I pounce on so easy a target. Yes, .. Nah. Too easy.
Undeservedly trite, hateful, irrational idiocy deserves no reply. :rofl:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Don't know why he bothers to run for re-election, the people hate him!
They actually tried to vote AGAINST him, but he hypnotized them and they helplessly voted for him, anyway. Landslide! What the heck are they going to do? Do they have to wait until the U.S. launches another coup? Another assassination attempt using Colombian paramilitaries?

http://www.magicbuilders.com.nyud.net:8090/images/gianni/Gianni020.jpg
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MoJoWorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe Lula or Kirchner have recommended to Chavez that he tone it down regarding Obama.
Or maybe Chavez has been watching Obama on the world stage this past week, and has come to his own conclusion that he had better get in line. LOL

It appears that most of the world leaders have respect for our New President. I am loving it. Now that is some more "change we can believe in".

If only our media would give Obama a break, and if the vocal lefties that know all the answers ( consider myself a lefty, but not dogmatic to such a degree) would just give him more than 2+ months to do everything. Geez.


All in good time, my friends. President Obama is looking down the long road, and I dare say ahead of most. He will make mistakes; but he is a good, smart, and decent man, that I am extremely glad to call my President!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
11. Ah, me! The Associated Pukes strike again, with their black holes of disinformation--
the empty places in their articles, those deep dark lightless caverns where information should be.

I am actually astonished that they mention the U.S. backed 2002 coup attempt--that is, that they actually feel obliged to provide a reason for the sour relations between the U.S. and Venezuela. That may be a sign that the CIA has been directed to soften the Bushwhack nutso line about Chavez. (I suspect that AP just cuts and pastes from CIA memos.) But the black holes rear up between paragraphs on more recent events.

For instance: " Despite recent criticism of President Barack Obama, Chavez said he wants to bring relations between the two governments back to a 'rational level.'"

During his inauguration week, Obama took off time from the festivities, and the transition, to give an interview to one of the rightwing, corpo/fascist 'news' monopolies in Latin America (Univision), saying that Chavez exports "terrorism" and is bad for the "progress of the region." The Associated Pukes then went trotting to Chavez to get a reaction quote, and they got one: Chavez said that Obama's remarks "stank of Bush." And he was more than likely right. There are still a lot of Bushwhacks in major position in the State Department on Latin American affairs, busily trying to stir up trouble for the new administration, in my view. They set up this interview. They wrote the script. They inflicted this faux pas on the busy Mr. Obama. That's my read on it. About two weeks later, the State Department had a whole new line: About the Venezuelan referendum on term limits, a spokesman bent over backwards to praise Venezuela's democracy, and to say that the vote was an internal affair in Venezuela (i.e., none of our business).

So-o-o-o, whether it was Obama's fault or not, he started the controversy, putting Chavez immediately on the defensive, with two untrue and insulting statements.

Now re-read that sentence opener: "Despite recent criticism of President Barack Obama...". Notice the black hole?

Next black hole: "Venezuela's relations with Washington grew strained under Chavez and former President George W. Bush, who was quick to back a failed 2002 coup attempt against Chavez. In September, Chavez expelled the U.S. ambassador and withdrew Venezuela's envoy to Washington."

Mention of the Bushwhack-backed coup, fine and good. That is certainly one of the reasons that Chavez, his government and the people of Venezuela, who overwhelmingly back the Chavez government, feel suspicious of the U.S. But they don't say why Chavez tossed the U.S. (Bushwhack) ambassador out of Venezuela. He did not just up and do this, apropos of nothing, this last September, just before a change of administrations here. His reason: This last September, the Bushwhacks sponsored a bloody fascist coup attempt in Bolivia, a close ally of Venezuela. And that coup attempt--in which the Bush-funded and organized white separatists rioted, trashed government and NGO buildings, blew up a gas pipeline and machine-gunned some 30 unarmed peasant farmers--prompted Evo Morales, the first indigenous president of Bolivia, to throw the U.S. ambassador out of the country. Chavez did the same, in solidarity with Bolivia.

According to Rafael Correa, president of Ecuador, there was a three-country, coordinated Bushwhack strategy to instigate similar fascist civil wars--in Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador--the goal being to create fascist secessionist states in control of the oil (and, in the case of Bolivia, gas and oil). There was other evidence of such a plot in all three countries. So, when the plot erupted in Bolivia, Chavez was no doubt concerned that the same thing might be attempted in Venezuela (most likely in its northern state, Zulia, where most of the oil is, and where there was evidence of a secessionist scheme).

The Associated Pukes leave all of this recent history out of the article. That is disinformation, aimed at making Chavez look whacky. Suddenly, out of nowhere, he criticizes Obama in his first weeks in office? Suddenly, for no reason, he threw the U.S. ambassador out, last September, just before a change in administrations? This makes Chavez seem irrational, and it black-holes essential information about why, not just Chavez, but virtually all of the leaders of Latin America--including moderate leftists like Lula da Silva, president of Brazil, and Michele Batchelet, president of Chile, and many others--are appalled at recent U.S. interference in South America, and are exerting strong diplomacy toward the U.S. Obama administration to change this policy of hostility and interference against democratic governments.

I have never before seen AP mention the 2002 coup attempt, as an explanation for why Chavez would be critical of the U.S. So that's progress, as far as the Pukishness of AP. But it is still a propaganda piece.



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BulletproofLandshark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thank you, PP, for setting the record straight as usual about Chavez.
:toast:
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Democracyinkind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. ...rational as in denying the CIA the right to decide over his life?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Yup, that kind of rational--basic civility and respect for an elected president--
and one who can actually prove that he was elected (unlike our own, and virtually all of our public officials, who cannot prove that they were actually elected, so non-transparent is our corporate-run, 'TRADE SECRET' election system), and respect for the people of Venezuela in their democratic choice, not to mention respect for the opinion of leaders throughout South America, who consider Chavez a friend and ally.

Respect. Civility. Diplomacy. Rational discussion. I know we've grown unused to expecting this in our leaders over the last eight years, but it is the way the U.S. used to behave, on the whole (with some exceptions), and it is certainly what our people used to expect from our leaders, so that, when there were breaches of lawful, civil foreign relations--either the people threw the president out (as with LBJ), or it was covered up, and the people didn't know about it (as with Reagan and the genocide in Guatemala), or mock hearings were held to wrist-slap a few people and make it seem as if there was accountability (as with Reagan, Iran-Contra and the illegal war on Nicaragua). I have always maintained--during this recent Bush Junta, and now--that the great majority of Americans in the U.S. are peace-loving, justice-loving and progressive in their views, and, when they know the truth, try to do the right thing, want their leaders to do the right thing, and do try to hold them accountable when they don't. I was closely watching issue polls during the late-2002 to about 2005 period, and I was astonished at what I was seeing, from the nearly 60% of the American people who opposed the invasion of Iraq just before it occurred (Feb '03), to the 63% who opposed torture "under any circumstances" (May '04), to yet higher numbers on items like the Bushwhack deficit, Social Security and transparent vote counting (approx. 90%, 80%, and over 90%, respectively). In sum, great majorities of Americans disagreed with virtually every Bush policy, foreign and domestic. Yet that asshole and his train of ghouls (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, and a load of Bushwhack Pukes in Congress) were supposedly 're-elected' in 2004. That, to me, is one of most convincing proofs that they were not re-elected, since we are dependent mostly on external evidence, given our almost completely non-transparent vote counting system.

In any case, Chavez has never, ever been against the people of the U.S. He is against our war machine, and he opposed the Junta we just escaped from, that was out to kill him and overturn democracy in Venezuela and elsewhere in South America. He wants rational discussion, based on facts and good arguments, and so do we, on the whole. And I sincerely hope that this is what our new government will engage in, with Venezuela, and all of the leaders and peoples of Latin America. Respect. Civility. Reason and diplomacy. Barack Obama is certainly capable of this, and may be brilliant at it. But he does need to overcome relentless propaganda against good, leftist, democratic leaders in Latin America, 24/7 in our corporate 'news' monopolies, as well as Bushwhack holdovers in the State Department, the CIA, the DEA, USAID-NED and other agencies who are out to sabotage good relations between Obama and leftist leaders in the Americas.

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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. He's tried everything to get Obama's attention.
Dude, Obama's busy right now, mmm-kay? He's got a little something called a crisis on his hands.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. That wouldn't represent the truth. Barack Obama has fired off some below-the-belt
insults at him which conform in every sense with the pure crap cranked out by the Bush regime, and kept in circulation by right-wing extremists.

The Democrats among us have expected this new President to have looked for better information than that at all costs, and to avoid ALL the underhanded, deceitful saber rattling initiated by no one other than George W. Bush.

Time for ALL Americans to retire that ugly Cold War gibberish.
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. I want to hear more about this "exporting" of terrorism.
I have yet to read any concrete evidence that he has done any such thing.
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Democracyinkind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Oh it's true alright, that's WHAT THE COMMIES ALWAYS DID!
Edited on Sun Apr-05-09 12:38 PM by Democracyinkind

You want proof? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE PROOF!
COMMIE=TERRORIST
BROWN,UPPITY=COMMIE
----
BROWN, UPPITY = TERRAHRIST
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. You know, when the Bushwhacks were doing something really bad, like torturing
thousands of people, and mass slaughtering others, their tactic was to pre-empt criticism by throwing blame elsewhere. Thus, they accused Saddam Hussein of possessing WMDs and planning to use them on others, including England (!) (--the infamous 45 minutes to London bullshit), but it was they themselves who were about the slaughter 100,000 innocent people with "shock and awe" bombing, to steal their oil.

The Bushwhacks larded the fascist narco-thugs who are running Colombia with $6 BILLION in military aid, to encourage extrajudicial murders of thousands of union leaders, human rights workers, peasant farmers and others, by Colombia's security forces and their rightwing paramilitary death squads, and both of these killing machines have spilled over the borders into Venezuela (where hundreds of unionized farmers have been killed in the border areas), and Ecuador, where the U.S./Colombia dropped ten U.S. "smart bombs" on a temporary FARC (leftist guerilla fighters) hostage release camp, just inside Ecuador's border, killing 25 people in their sleep, including several Mexican and Ecuadoran citizens, and almost starting a war with Ecuador and Venezuela. The cocaine traffic never ends in Colombia, no matter how much military aid we give, and the traffic and all of its attendant crime spill over into these adjacent countries. Colombia is the country that is "exporting terrorism," including several plots, hatched in Colombia, to assassinate Hugo Chavez.

It's interesting to follow this Bushwhack tale that Chavez "exports terrorism" back a couple of years, to Donald Rumsfeld's op-ed in the Washington Post, 12/1/07, a year after he was ousted from the Pentagon, entitled, "The Smart Way to Defeat Tyrants Like Chavez." This op-ed was published on the same weekend that Chavez had arranged for the release of some FARC hostages, at the specific request of the president of Colombia, Alvaro Uribe. Prior to that request, a plot to assassinate Chavez had been exposed in the Colombian military, and Uribe was compelled to apologize to Chavez, in a four hour meeting. I figure it was at that meeting Uribe asked Chavez to negotiate hostage releases with the FARC. It was announced publicly, and Chavez proceeded to do it. He was quite successful. The FARC were willing to talk to Chavez because he is a leftist. Then, on the relevant weekend, 12/1/07, or, rather, a couple of days before, Uribe suddenly withdrew his request of Chavez (using the lame excuse that Chavez had called someone in the Colombian military to ask how many Colombian soldiers were being held hostage by the FARC). But the first hostage release was already in motion--and people like the President of France, hostages' families, and others, begged Chavez to continue. So he went ahead. In that first hostage release, the Colombian military shelled the hostages' location, while they were in route to their freedom, driving them back into the jungle on a 20 mile hike. Chavez got them out later by a different route, and got a total of 6 hostages released, onto into February, with the Colombian military doing everything possible to sabotage further releases.

In his op-ed, on that first weekend of the hostage releases, Rumsfeld says, in the opening paragraph, that Chavez's efforts as to the hostages were "not welcome in Colombia"--though they had been days before. The long hand of Washington was reaching down to South America to disrupt the accord between Uribe and Chavez on getting hostages released, and was no doubt pulling Uribe's strings (whose strange, contradictory behavior resembled nothing so much as a puppet getting jerked this way and that).

But then comes the capper. In March, the U.S./Colombia conspired to invade Ecuador and kill the chief FARC hostage negotiator, Raul Reyes (who, by all accounts, was about to release high profile hostage Ingrid Betancourt, in Ecuador). They blew Reyes' camp away, crossed the border to shoot any survivors, and claimed to have seized Reyes' laptop computers, which Uribe soon began to use--citing emails supposedly from the laptop--making wild charges about Chavez colluding with terrorists. I won't go into the whole "miracle laptop" story, but it seems pretty clear to me that this laptop (later, laptopS) was a product of Rumsfeld's private "Office of Special Plans" (infamous for concocting false evidence of WMDs in Iraq). Yes, Chavez had contact with the FARC--at Uribe's specific and public request! They took those contacts and laced them round with lies about money and "dirty bombs" and whatnot, which were all proven false. In fact, no emails even existed in those computers.

Neither Chavez nor Castro, nor anybody else among the leftist leaders of South America, approves of FARC fighting or FARC hostage taking. They have all told them to stop. The Colombian civil war has gone on for more than 40 years. Everybody (except the Colombian fascists and militarists) wants it ended. Even the FARC wants it ended. That's why they began releasing hostages. It is pure slander to say that Chavez (or Rafael Correa, president of Ecuador, whom they also accused) wants anything but peace in South America, and they saw hostages releases as the way to peace. And, interestingly, after all this went down, Chavez invited Uribe to Venezuela, and they held a press conference, "burying the hatchet," and announcing joint economic ventures like a new railroad between their countries. It is the Colombian military and the Bushwhacks who wanted war, and were trying to set up an excuse to invade Venezuela (and Ecuador, which they did invade), for the purpose of harassing or killing/toppling Venezuela's democratic government.

The charge that Chavez is colluding with "terrorists," or "exporting terrorism," or however they put it, is entirely false. It is a Bushwhack concoction. And it was psyops for a war plan, to regain global corporate predator control of Venezuela's and Ecuador's vast oil reserves. We've seen this before, as to Iraq. We saw a similar build-up of propaganda about Iran (a war that somehow got taken "off the table"). And those of us following events in South America (and in the corpo press here) were seeing the same goddamn crap all over again, with regard to Chavez/Venezuela and other leftist countries with lots of oil.

It is utter, complete, total, unmitigated Bushwhack bullshit--and when Obama repeats it, or Hillary Clinton repeats it, they are behaving like Bushwhacks, and I hope to God that this does not mean that they are planning a war, or planning to wink at--or get drawn into--a private corporate oil war designed by Donald Rumsfeld.

Cuz that's what it looks like to me.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Scares me too.
Thanks for that cogent analysis. :thumbsup:

"American interests" will always take precedent when it comes to American interests. Its up to us, the people, to define what these interests really are - and for whom - as did the Cubans and Venezuelans.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I don't think Obama or Clinton are believing BushCo.
They are simply using the narrative for their own purposes. In this case, Chavez is one of the strongest voices against free trade agreements, the IMF and the WTO. Our corporate owners can't have that.
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Democracyinkind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. I think the Bushes and Clintons
..get along pretty well, which kind of irritates me, since "the vast right wing conspiracy" was a fact.
I wonder why the Clintons love to spend so much time with the Bushes.
At least that's something one cannot say about the Obamas.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. Good for Chavez.
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irislake Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wow!
He'd better start sucking up and falling all over himself like Stephen Harper and all the rest of the Western leaders.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. You need to start ACTING rational first, Hugo.
:crazy:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. On what planet is anything he's doing irrational?
Seriously, what can you point?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. He's acting like Obama is more Bush.
If Chavez thinks Obama is going to send the CIA to try and pull a coup on him he is irrationally paranoid. Chavez has become such a symbol of the South American Left that getting rid of him as a way to somehow stop the tide of left-wing politics can only backfire. That the Neo-Cons tried it just shows how moronic they were when it comes to understanding geo-politics.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Obama went out of his way to insult him before the inauguration
Edited on Sun Apr-05-09 11:09 PM by EFerrari
in exactly the same terms Bush used to use. The problem here isn't Chavez. Chavez was very quiet while Obama was running just as all the leftists were -- so as not to give anyone a hook.

The other thing is, it's not only the US government that pulls that crap but sometimes US controlled entities. They haven't stopped just because Bush is out. Those creeps hate both Obama AND Chavez and just like Cheney, they will never stop pushing their agenda.
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freedomnorth Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Read post #11 n/t.
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