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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:05 AM
Original message
Insurers shun those taking certain meds
Source: Miami Herald

...health insurers secretly blacklist those with certain ailments. Trying to buy health insurance on your own and have gallstones? You'll automatically be denied coverage. Rheumatoid arthritis? Automatic denial. Severe acne? Probably denied. Do you take metformin, a popular drug for diabetes? Denied. Use the anti-clotting drug Plavix or Seroquel, prescribed for anti-psychotic or sleep problems? Forget about it.

This confidential information on some insurers' practices is available on the Web -- if you know where to look.

What's more, you can discover that if you lie to an insurer about your medical history and drug use, you will be rejected because data-mining companies sell information to insurers about your health, including detailed usage of prescription drugs.

<snip>

Some insurers will automatically reject applicants who are using certain prescription drugs. Wellpoint denies anyone who within the past year has taken Abilify and Zyprexa for mental disorders as well as Neupogen, which is used to treat the side effects of chemotherapy. Vista lists the anticoagulant Warfarin and the pain medication Oxycontin. Both companies list insulin.

The medications, of course, are indications of specific health problems. To make sure that applicants are not lying, insurers hire a data-gathering service -- Medical Information Bureau, Milliman's Intelliscript or Ingenix Medpoint.

Intelliscript and Medpoint do computerized searches of a person's drug use, gleaned from pharmacy benefits managers and other databases. The two companies say they comply with privacy laws. ''Ingenix requires each Medpoint client to obtain the authorization of the individual applicant or insured person,'' said Ingenix spokeswoman Karin Olson.

Last year, the Federal Trade Commission accused both companies of violating the Fair Credit Reporting Act by not offering to provide consumers with information about them.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/323/story/973158.html




And you might wonder why the insurance 'plan' being floated by those representing the industry will never be fair?
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. And Where O Where Is Obama's Single Payer Solution That Would Prevent These Practices
Oh, I forgot it's still change we can't believe in.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Give him time. It's only been 2 months since he got into the Oval Office.
Never mind congressional red tape and convincing those that question such ideas as to WHY they are good to implement.

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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:58 AM
Original message
There is not time. Single Payer is a now or never proposition
I hate agreeing with Tweety but he's got this one correct. IN the past couple of weeks Tweety has pointed out in several discussions with the talking heads that Presidents get major legislation passed in there first year only. After that - forget it.

Obama must be pushed and pushed hard - and NOW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqOUxx4UVo4



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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
135. Tweety's a douche who is in the entertainment business.
Sometimes he's terrific, but just as often he's wrong. Taking him as an authority would be as wrong as doing the same with Rush or Orally.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #135
153. Are you thinking that he's the reason that point was taken?
Rather than the horrorific state of health among the general population?
Surely not?

I think he was cited as evidence that SPUHC is in the public debate.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #135
165. Get it straight - I dont' take him as an authhority -
But as I said - I think hes correct on this one.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #135
200. Is he wrong on this issue, though?
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
149. I wish i could recommend a reply
because yours is spot on.
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
164. I have problems with these newly-discovered facts.

However, that being said, Obama has to be pushed into doing the right thing. At least I know listens better than most politicians, and he could be turned into a populist.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Obama has rejcted the idea of single payer plan AND
that has been discussed almost endlessly in these forums for the past 2 weeks.
Feel free to search for it, the threads will pop up.
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Demoiselle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
68. Obama rejected it during primary season.
Go back into Krugman's columns written during the primaries (NYTimes archives.) Mr, K liked Edwards' plan the best. He rated Obama's third, after Hillary's and said that Obama was running "Harry and Louise" type ads in at least one of the primary states against Edwards' plan. I am happy about Obama as our president, I have no intention of heaping criticism on him now....but the possible weakness of his take on health care was visible during those primaries, so I can't say I'm surprised.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
173. Obama said "Single-payer is the best alternative"
He has NOT rejected it...

Feel free to search...
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aggiesal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
63. Obama says "Single Payer health plan is off the table" ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Apparently, BO and Nancy Pelosi are eating from the same table.
The table that most of us wanted and voted for, now have
impeachment and single payer health, cleared from.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. And any sort of MJ reform. First I heard health care was off the table though...n/t
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #65
136. That's just a rumor.
Historically, Obama has not favored single payer, but he's open to suggestions. I sent him a letter about it, on paper, thinking that maybe there's a multiplier involved, that one letter on paper equals a thousand emails, or something of the kind.

Insulting Obama won't get us the health care we need. Friendly pressure might.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #136
139. Couldn't agree more! I'll make sure to send the paper one too! n/t
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aggiesal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #136
171. I'm all for single payer health care, ...
and I know that in the past that Obama said he is open to single payer health care.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that single payer health care is off the table, is a rumor.
I wish it were.

Check out this link for further information:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/march/obama_to_single_pay...

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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #63
119. That's just a link to another post w/o attribution
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aggiesal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #119
137. OK. I tried to use the White House statement, but it was an ...
incomplete link.

So, here is another link:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/march/obama_to_single_pay...

Also, your link to http://www.fightthesmears.com
has no entry for "health care", or "healthcare".
When only "health" was entered it returned something about abortion.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #137
174. That's an opinion piece...
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 09:22 PM by guruoo
Where is Obama quoted saying it's 'off the table'? Did he really say this, or is this just the message
some people believe he's sending by not already having a plan in place?

BTW: The fightthesmears link is my sig line.
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aggiesal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #174
179. This is not an opinion piece. Here is what was reported from the link: ...
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 09:47 PM by aggiesal
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/march/obama_to_single_pay...
Last week, Conyers attended a Congressional Black Caucus meeting with President Obama at the White House.
During the meeting, Congressman Conyers, sponsor of the single payer bill in the House (HR 676), asked
President Obama for an invite to the Presidents Marchy 5 health care summit at the White House.
Conyers said he would bring along with him two doctors Dr. Marcia Angell and Dr. Quentin Young
to represent the majority of physicians in the United States who favor single payer.
Obama would have none of it.
This week, by e-mail, Conyers heard back from the White House no invite.

Here's another article as well:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090310_put_single... /
Congress is considering H.R. 676, Expanded and Improved Medicare for All, sponsored by John Conyers, D-Mich.,
with 64 co-sponsors. Yet even when Rep. Conyers directly asked Obama at a Congressional Black Caucus meeting
if he could attend the White House health-care summit, he was not immediately invited. Nor was any other advocate
for single-payer health care.

2 Independent sources reporting exactly the same thing.
No opinion in either case.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #179
183. You quoted Obama as saying "Single Payer health plan is off the table"
Here>>> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And your other post, an OP, had this subject line:
'Obama says single-payer is off because taxes would be too high to pay for it!'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

So, did he really say this, or not?
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
99. Read My Post - Post #1 In The Thread I'm Putting A Link To Here.......
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Speak now - or forever hold your peace.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
142. Two months is enough time to tell which direction he's heading
and it's not looking good.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
177. Bush was only in office for two months when he closed down the teams tracking al-Qaeda
All it takes is incentive.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
178. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. No single payer health care = I vote for the other Dem next time.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
86. same here.
and if there's not another to vote for, i'll abstain.
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freemarketer6 Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
129. Same here, Loonix. However, I may never vote again after what
has happened. I really thought things would change this time. Yes, they might--for the worse.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. I love the way you elevate the conversation and always have an action plan to
help steer Washington.

:hurts:
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
62. Bernie Sanders is working hard on this on the Senate Floor...
..he's from Vermont (for those that do not know); there is excellent video of him condeming the practice of tax cuts to billionaires, but leaving the middle class without insurance.

This issue is very close to my heart and as I feel like rubbish today - I'm hoping someone can help dig up that video as reference.

Cheers
Sandy
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. PS: One of the drugs I take to survive is listed here too but knew it would be ..
..especially since I'm chronic and not likely to die unless I OD (which one of my pharmacists is convinced will happen, as I over heard the bitch talking about me when she thought I was gone, nice huh. Anyway, her BOSS supports me and *understands* my condition).

/rant off
cheers
sandy
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
97. Apparently, we're going to have to march on Washington to get single-payer.
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 01:06 PM by caseymoz
Camp there around the White House, around the Capitol building and insist on it until we get it. Obama is more responsive to the people than most politicians. Let's turn him into a populist.

Apparently, until we're ready to do that, we will never get decent medical care, and unless we keep an eye on it, we're not going to be able to keep it if we do get it.

That's the mess we're in.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
113. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #113
134. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
152. you don't need single payer to end this practice, you simply need to outlaw the practice
why don't you get that?

i support single payer as well, but how are you helping pass single payer by misunderstanding this particular issue?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. What do you wanna bet that without that "authorization" to violate my privacy,
I wouldn't get to buy my prescription drugs at a discounted rate?
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Most likely, without authorization you'd be denied the insurance you applied for.
I suspect they simply require this authorization from every applicant for insurance.

:dem:

-Laelth
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Bingo
"Sign here."
"I actually read this, it says you're authorizing third parties to investigate my medical history?"
"If you don't sign the application, you can't be considered for insurance."
"Is there anyone I can talk to about this?"
"No."
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. investigate?
this authorization must be signed in order for the insurer to contact the medical information bureau. also to contact any doctors. no investigators are hired. you must sign the application because you are attesting to the facts as being true. if you sign and lie then a claim could be denied. if you have been denied insurance or a waiver has been put on the policy, then you must be told in writing exactly why. if this does satisfy you, go to the department of insurance in your state, believe they will be on your side. these departs are stacked with want a be politicians.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
83. Actually, in Texas, these departments are all stacked by flacks wanting
to go to work for those they "regulate."

It's called regulatory capture.

Even such obvious scams as "credit counseling" are totally unregulated in Texas. Can't speak for anywhere else.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #83
96. texas yuck!!!
i spent 5 long, agonizing, torturous, months in galveston working for that insurance company, american something. it is owned by the Moody family. you cannot believe the incompetence and questionable payoffs. i will not even drive through texas. feel sorry for the people but too many of them get what they voted for.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #96
190. American Capitol.
American General, a different company, is in Houston.

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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
66. You mean like HIPPA? That little POS legistlation protects you from-
- others around you hearing about you (not really) but allows the government to look when they feel the need to; I came back to live in the US about the time *everyone* had to sign that document, whether you agreed or not if you wanted *any* kind of health service. Still pisses me off...and YES I obviously read the document.

Cheers
Sandy
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Captain_Blue Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #66
168. HIPPA
Protects you from your nosy neighbor, but guarantees everyone that needs to know your medical condition, knows! Worst legislation ever. I think it is to be followed by Obama's electronic record. Medical privacy went out with HIPPA. The electronic record will be used to allocate medical services.

All things progressive are not necessarily good for us.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. process
an application is received, automatically a signature is verified, then the medical information bureau is checked, then the application goes to an underwriter to verify health, and legality of application, like signatures, where app signed, is agent licensed where app signed and so on. then it gets approval, or not.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
81. Exactly
Start with blackmail at the front end, and if that doesn't work, they'll get you on the back end.

How the hell can they get away with this - and no one doing anything about it?
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. huh?!
your comment makes no sense, one has nothing to do with the other. your sign an authorization for the insurance company to verify your honesty regarding the information you put on the application. if you have a valid prescription from a valid doctor, your insurer does not care where you get it filled.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
123. The insurer forces you to yield your privacy rights
And if you don't then they won't pay for your meds.

After you give up your rights, the insurer sells your info to one of these 'data' firms who then assign you a score and sell your info to potential insurers.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #123
185. My Insurance was just raised because I have given them no health history. They also were
trying to get me to take a lesser Insurance which was cheaper but not as good. I am going to pay the additional 30/mo and see what happens. They raised my rate 3X in two months!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is since my husband went on Medicare. What jerks.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
98. Exactly. Just like you can theoretically
refuse authorization for credit checks during employment interviews (I don't believe in employers being permitted to check credit), but good luck being considered further. You won't unless you sign, which is nothing more than legalized extortion preying on our economic need and vulnerability.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. It is time to fire the health insurance industry
They are leeches who do nothing but add to the cost of health care and make
it harder for people to get treatment for illnesses because if you use the product
you bought from them then they will find away to drop you or raise your cost of
insurance to the point you might not be able to afford it.


Single payer national health coverage.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Their job is to make money off of your illness. What could be more
honorable than that??
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. we pay 31 cents on the dollar for their "help" w/ health care
let them cover cars, homes, life, and etc.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. their job is to make money off your health and wellness
and to leave you twisting in the wind if you ever become sick
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
112. Yup. we need a national TV ad
to this effect. Anyone could take over the administration of a government run plan. Just like the financial services industry, insurance makes a fortune shuffling paper at the expense of millions of us. Our government is delinquent in their duty to the citizen.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
39. honorable?
what the hell IS insurance to you? you bet you will not get sick or die and the insurance company, based on their statistics, say you will and it is just a matter of time. the insurer has their statistics but the insured for the most part are too stupid or lazy to really learn about their health so they can be as armed as the insurer. it's a game, a crap shoot.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #39
51. 201 post count, you have not been here long enough to know
that I can be quite a sarcastic individual. I forgot to do this at the end of my message. :sarcasm:
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eagertolearn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #39
58. It's a crap shoot but as soon as the insured gets a major illness
or disease their insurance rates sky rocket so that they can no longer afford it anymore. Thats just what these insurance companies want is just well people filling their pockts with money! We have to get the insurance companies out of health care. My husband is a doctor and insurance companies (for health care) are terrible! How can they sleep at night?
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #58
70. insurance
why not raise rates when you get an illness, your car insurance goes up with violations/accidents, your homeowners insurance goes up if you are now in a flood plain. insurance companies (except H.M.O,'s) are in the risk assessment business. your husband is in the health care business. get the hmo's out of diagnosing/treating health. now you want to talk about doctors!!!!! part of the cost of health care is the incompetence of doctors. yes there are good ones but they belong to the good ole' boy club. take for instance a neurosurgeon who stops drinking by midnight so he can sober up for brain surgery the next morning. all his surgical team knows his problem but no one says anything. how about an ekg that was misread by a patients doctor. the underwriter sees it in the medical records and has it read by the doctor on staff(every insurance company has one or more). it is abnormal and requests a current one. the doc sends in the same ekg but has replaced the abnormal lead with a normal one. we request another one done by a physician selected by us, the applicant was scheduled for by pass 2 days after the new ekg was done.. the original ekg done by this patient's doc was several years old, but had it been read correctly, the bypass maybe could have been avoided and treated medically. do you know how many times in thirty years i have had applicants who have been abusing rx drugs and it was all in the medical records had the doctor taken the time to read the whole record. we would in those cases have the medical director call the doctor to point out to him he was suppling a drug addict. i could go on and on but i won't.

the shitty affair of our health care system does not start and end with the insurance companies. it starts with the ignorance of people, who think their doctor can make no mistake but they are human; it includes rotten doctors who should have their license pulled but are covered by fellow medical personal and hospitals who are afraid of lawsuits. there is a whole pyramid of people who cause the health care crisis, all of them make money off our health. no one polices them. trust no doctor or vet until you investigate what they say.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. Yep....it's the Doctor's fault your insurance company is a crook!
:eyes:


My father...a very good surgeon, reluctantly retired earlier than he wanted because he was "tired of being in business with the god damn insurance companies."


Insurance = legalized extortion.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #75
93. The Little Newb Is Full Of Herself
Sorry about your dad.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #75
140. My former internist retired early for the same reason
though he spends some time filling in at an Urgent Care, but there he doesn't have to deal with the insurance.

I've been in favor of a single payer system for years - he and I used to argue about it - but the last time I saw him before he retired, he had decided a single payer system was the only way to go.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #75
148. sorry
doctors are partly to blame for not policing themselves against incompetent fellow doctors. your dad knows what i am talking about. doctors that show up for surgery smelling of alcohol, not enough sleep. keeping quiet about mistakes hurts the health care industry. it is the reason we have malpractice insurance.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. You can CONTROL whether you live a flood plain and car insurance only goes up when the accident is
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 12:14 PM by beac
YOUR fault. Trying to say that that is in ANY way the same as denying insurance to someone who needs a med to MAINTAIN their health is 100% BS.

There are certainly SOME bad doctors, but your industry is at the top of the list when it comes to scamming the public.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #79
151. control
you do not always know you are in a flood plain until there is a flood. your car insurance can go up whether it is your fault or not. there are many bad doctors, believe me! how much are you willing to pay for your health insurance if all insurance companies cover everyone, even the dying? you want to pay a 1000, 2000 or more a month so joe down the street gets his meds? understand insurance is a business, they make profits. they will not take risks, at least poor ones. i do not like how insurance, health insurance companies operate but closing them down leaves us to the mercy of the doctors and hospitals. look at it this way, you have five people to whom you are going to loan money, four have good credit and the fifth one does not. who are going to loan the money to? you going to be a Samaritan and give the poor credit risk the money anyway? isn't that what the housing crisis all about?

how do insurance companies scam the public? you seek them for coverage based on your medical history, they offer you a rate based on that medical history and you can choose or not to take the coverage. it is business.

there has to be a better way to get health care, the rest of the world does.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #151
162. Do you really believe health insurance companies don't scam the public?
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #151
166. " insurance is a business". Yes, a bad one.
The fact that we hae people making a PROFIT on gambling with people's health is a disgrace. Period.
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bobshin Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #151
186. You are so right! I've watched several friends die in hospitals that were
put through all sorts of unnecessary procedures. They were racking up the bills knowing full well that it wouldn't have changed the outcome.

I also believe that paying to take all personal responsibility out of the equation encourages disregard for one's own health. Why bother if you know you're covered? We all pay for this and it disincentivizes taking control. I would bet that over 90% of all our medical expenses are a result of this. But then who am I? I must have that health gene.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #186
195. That's a bunch of crap. 5% of the population accounts for half of all health care expenses
15% accounts for 85% of expenses. It doesn't matter jackshit how pure and healthy the 85% majority is--they aren't going to get expensively sick regardless of what they do.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #186
202. Based upon your "logic" Americans should be the healthiest people in the world.
We are forced to assume a lot of personal financial responsibility for our health care and yet we rank poorly in comparison to most industrialized nations.

http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/publications/news/ne...

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN07651650200...

Your comment that people are not taking personal responsibility for their own health because they know they're covered is ludicrous. Are you really saying that people choose to eat poorly or fail to exercise because heart bypass surgery or insulin dependent diabetes is an attractive option? Statistics show that people who have the MOST personal responsibility for their own health care, the uninsured, have the worst health outcomes.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #151
194. People who think that health care is nothing but a business
--need to be put up against a wall and shot. Health care is a right and a public good, and insurance companies are useless parasites.
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anneboleyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #194
211. I could not agree with you more. It is disgusting, absolutely disgusting, in a civilized country
that this goes on. And what is even more sad is that so many Americans buy the hideous, twisted logic that healthcare is something we are supposed to buy instead of a fundamental right in a civilized society. I wish our society was more humane.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
104. Nope. The whole health care crisis is caused by the unmoded insurance model.
Widespread health insurance was a major milestone in the 20th century but now it's an inefficient way to fund health care. It's time to get the insurance industry out of the major medical coverage business. Let them develop other product lines that supplement it.

You are correct that there are some rotten doctors, but their role in the shittiness of our health care system is minuscule compared to the dysfunction supported by a profit-based model of health care insurance.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #70
115. Bull fucking shit!
What does the insurance industry do to deserve free money? Name one thing.
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eagertolearn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #70
126. There are a lot of good and honest doctors who just want to do their job.
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 03:10 PM by eagertolearn
My husband is one of them and he has reported on someone who wasn't safe in the past and they did eventually get rid of him (after the doctor was evaluated by his specialty and my husband complaints were looked into. My husband was also threatened by this doctor so their are risks at reporting). There are great doctors who are getting burned out by the system of dealing with insurance companies, taking call and always having a threat of a law suit because just because you're a doctor doesn't mean you are perfect. There are doctors who are just in it for the money but I actually don't know any where I live. My husband had a chance to work in one of those practices in CA but we chose to come to a small town and make 1/4 of what he could have made to have a quality of life and actually a relationship with his patients (and his family). Because people can't afford health insurance my husband ends up taking care of someone and not getting paid. This group has been increasing like crazy but we can't blame them when they are making a little over minimum wage or even 30-40 thousand a year and can't afford health insurance. Part of the problem is the uninsured causing the hospital rates to go up so high because someone needs to pay for those people and thats all of us who are paying insurance. There has to be a better system and why are we one of the only countries who don't take care of our people when it comes to health care? Everyone should have health care. We were just in Germany last summer and my daughter needed to go to the hospital because she fell off her bike and needed 25 stiches. They have a clinic where everyone can have care and they also have some where you can pay supplemental money. The second was closed so we went to the general one and after two hours of wonderful care, stiches, tetnus shot, antibiotics pain meds and extra bandages it cost $75. We got right in and fantastic care (it helped having our exchange students family transulating for us). Our Noregian exchange student needed hip surgery at age 19 (a total hip) because of an infection when she was 1 years old. When they finally decided that she needed one (the longer she waited the better technology and who knows how long they last) she had to wait another year(to go to the specific hospital she wanted) but what she got in return was everything covered and rehab for 3 months with no sudden expense of thousands of dollars. We figured out they are paying about 48% in taxes but they have all medical care and college paid for! We are almost paying that much in taxes and we still have to pay 100% of collge for three kids and for most of our health care, and all dental and braces ect.. Plus they take care of their people. Both out exchange students couldn't believe the poor we have in our country and how many homeless there are. We help out "struggling families" all the time and neither of them even known people who are poor and struggling. Other countries have this figured out. Why can't we learn from the older and wiser countries? Our current system is not working.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #70
193. What a bunch of horseshit
There is nothing more disgusting than putting sick people in the same category as drunk drivers. Insurance companies are nothing but parasites that subtract value from health care, and they need to be eliminated.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
111. +1 Botany.
The health insurance industry deserves no consideration. The provide zero care, yet through their lobby efforts, receive free money. It's a great deal.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
130. But when, And how? And from whom?
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 03:35 PM by truedelphi
First we were told that we had to have a Democratic Congress in order to get UNiversal Single Payer Health Care. So we got that done Election Cycle 2006.

Then we were told that we need to have the Presidency occupied by someone with a "D" after their name. SO we worked for that goal, and succeeded (?)

Now we are told that we must work day and night to get the man in the Oval Office to "understand" the problem.

Moving to Canada seems easier - and they have a working economy to boot. Sorry that my faith is shot, but so it is.

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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. That was my biggest hope in his promises
That he would eliminate "Preexisting condidtion refusal". It wouldn't matter if I had a million dollars, I've taken several meds of those lists=UNINSURABLE. Fuck this country right in it's ear.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
74. Exactly. Preexsisting condition refusal is the heart of the issue. And,
IMHO should be illegal with regards to health insurers.
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jhrobbins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #74
170. My Mother had polio in the 50's and every insurance company determined it was a pre-existing
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 08:35 PM by jhrobbins
condition. She even told them she would sign a waiver not to cover any condition that might arise from this - NO DICE. She died of breast cancer that wasn't caught early enough.
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Aragorn Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
76. aural sex?
Single-payer, not-for-profit is the only ethical answer.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. +8
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. VERY good question - Can the Admin find ANY insurance company that would NOT do this?
I don't think so! Let's hope this question is front and center at the next news conference! :kick:
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eagertolearn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
127. Its like asking if a private for profit convalescent home can comfortably staff
their facility. That will never happen! More of a profit comes when you learn to work the system!
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #127
157. You made me think of a personal story - Florida nursing homes flying in South American workers.
A few years ago my son, who has Progressive MS, was in a nursing home and when we visited him he told me about the night nursing assistants that came in to "help" him. Problem was they didn't speak English and he didn't speak Spanish or Portuguese (he wasn't sure). No one was available to translate and he had to wait until morning to get the help he needed.

Unbelievable but true! :crazy:
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eagertolearn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #157
209. How scary to be alert and aware in a place like that. This is an area
that needs huge improvements and not talking about luxury but just basic needs taken care of. I'm sorry your son ended up there.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. The mental health meds always gets me.
If you're mentally ill and do nothing about it, you're OK.

It's not just the greed, it's the stupidity.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
57. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #57
67. What "risk" exactly do you think the insurance company is taking in providing a client of theirs
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 12:04 PM by beac
with Prozac as opposed to Lipitor? Are you really comparing having depression with being a reckless driver?

Your prejudice is showing by assuming that ANY mental health issue is some kind of "danger" to the people around you. Mental disease is NO different than any other health issue.

That said, insurance companies try their best not to provide the very service they have been contracted and PAID to give. Their "sensible business practice" is a racket and always has been.


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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
82. "sensible business practice"..?
Is that the theory that if you pass on a small cost to somebody else and it becomes a big cost, nobody pays for it?

If you have auto insurance and you have the uninsured or underinsured motorist coverage you are paying for the bad drivers.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
89. Right, let's just deny people with mental illness access to treatment
Folks who think that's somehow laudable are wasting my oxygen.
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
13. My brother has IBS; he was denied coverage
How in the world can someone who has to rush to the bathroom after he eats be considered high risk? (He's also doing quite well conquering it--with ALTERNATIVE treatments. Traditional medicine addressed it with antispasmodics and anti-tremor for his shaking hands. Never treated the actual cause of the IBS which would bring it under control instead of smothering the symptoms. Worthless...)
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Unfortunately, there is fiscal basis for this one
IBS is sometimes Ulcerative Colitis which was misdiagnosed (accidentally - or deliberately to hide the real diagnosis from insurance companies). UC disease carries a very high risk of colon cancer. (My 18 y/o daughter with UC has colonoscopies every other year to make sure they catch it early.) Even if they catch it early, the surgery to remove the colon is relatively expensive and the disease puts you at risk for even more costly illnesses (about 5% develop a severe liver disorder that often requires a transplant). In the good years, most of them up until this one, her costs are around $5000 a year. In a bad year, they are significantly more. We've blown past that already this year, and it's only March.

When they figure out what they will insure and what they won't, it's all a matter of statistical risk, and they're not willing to take much.
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
37. I can understand that
So the fundamental structure of the medical insurance industry is flawed: "You may end up costing us too much money, so you're S.O.L." is what it amounts to. It's not like auto insurance--anyone can make an effort to be a good driver; health coverage shouldn't be dependent on conditions that are outside of people's control. We need a new system--FAST.

Sorry to hear about your daughter. It really is a terrible thing to have to live with. :(
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. Yep. Fundamentally flawed.
When people ask what they can do to help (since her second diagnosis is very recent), but there is nothing directly they can do, I tell them: Please work to ensure that health coverage doesn't depend on employment, good health, or ability to maintain status as a full time student. (That, and become an organ donor/promote organ donation)
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. i.b.s.?
i.b.s. needing antispasmodics and anti-tremor rx's??? sounds closer to colitis or crones. what has caused the tremors? while i do not like insurance companies, having worked for 30 years as a life insurance medical underwriter, i do see why this case would be denied. certain illness lead to more serious conditions. this ibs case does sound more serious than the run of the mill ibs. if insurer a.b.c. has had this person as an insured, then the insured goes to insurer d.e.f., then to insurer g.h.i. etc, someone is going to end paying a claim. the game is sort of like playing hot potato, someone is going to get burned!!!! i do not blame the insurers but some have gone to far. there has to be a solution, like an uninsured motorist fund but the ALL health insurers must be a member, in order to spread the risk around, or they cannot operate in any state.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. antispadmodics aren't the first line treatment
for UC, at least, and I don't believe they are for Crohns. Generally the focus of treatment for those two is stopping the inflammation. But the point another poster made below was the one I also tried to make - IBS provides cover (either accidentally or deliberately) for a whole host of other, sometimes very serious, GI disorders.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #36
46. agree
i.b.s. is a coverall for many bowel situations that are not properly diagnosed. patients must learn everything they can about their illness, how they are being treated, the side effects of their rx, what additional risk/illness can come from the illness given the time. with ulcerative colitis, even controlled, carries an added risk of colon cancer. crones, not so much. we are a stupid and ignorant society where our health is concerned. like treatment for cancers, so you have had chemo and radiation and your doctor says the cancer is gone but we need to continue regular tests and check ups. you think it is to check to see if the cancer has come back? no, they are now looking for cancers from the treatments. people please read about your health and treatment. know what the doctors know so you can ask intelligent questions, carry a recorder with you so you can record and then go back to try to understand.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. I pretty much stay ahead of the doctors
by doing my own research into what is likely going on, what treatments are available, and what the side effects mmight be. It's the only way to have a productive conversation with them. It has been years since a doctor surprised me by suggesting something I wasn't already expecting - and far too often, I have had to lead the doctor to the proper diagnosis/diagnostic tools.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #48
59. good
good for you. when i go to a new doctor, i tell them i could be their worst nightmare. i know how they operate, i have read at least 10 medical records from different doctors/patients for 30 years. i have just enough medical background to be dangerous and i tell them do not talk down to me. do not refer to a nephrologist as a kidney doctor as an example. i also ask leading questions for which i have the correct answer just to test their knowledge. this also applies to vets, bunch of them out there, not worth anything. we always had a fact that we kept in mind, 50% of doctors graduate in the bottom half of their class, with some at the very bottom of the class. do not trust, investigate.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
60. I hope you won't mind a correction, since it is my disease.
Its Chron's Disease. The other makes people think of an old crone (woman usually) as we all get so hysterical. Men get this disease and probably as often or more often.
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Orangeone Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #60
109. crohn's nt
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. His doctor didn't know what was causing the tremors
He just gave my brother an anti-tremor med so he'd be able to somewhat control his shaking hands. I'm no medical professional (far from it) but my guess was that he was malnourished, as his system was not absorbing nutrients from the food he ate (it exited too quickly). And I may have been right--now that he's getting his intestines under control (whether it was IBS--which is what the doctor was calling it--colitis, or Crohn's--which I believe was ruled out later on) with probiotics and other treatments, his hands have stopped shaking, without any specific treatment for the tremors.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #40
69. I've Colitis - and having to go, go go like that makes you shakey -
period. I have more than just that but have had it since 13 from over use of antibiotics due to chronic ear/nose/throat as a kid. Add in a horse accident, and car accident later in life, no one would insure me LOL. The treatment for pain helps my colitis tho, so it's win/win there - but I understand the shakeing. My hands are doing it now.
Cheers
Sandy
having a really shitty day *wink*
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. Have you tried Asacol and/or acupuncture for your coliitis?
They both have helped mine tremendously.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #40
85. Except for a long run of feeling unwell this past year - my first
really sustained flare - those probiotics have been about all I do for my Crohn's - and they help a great deal.

My doctor did say recently that they're rethinking things a bit, and finding that with some patients, anti-spasmodics might be more effective than anti-inflammatory drugs. This go-round, I think there's something to it - some other meds I was taking (for other problems) made me very anxious, and terribly exacerbated the GI problems. Once I switched that I began to feel well again. (Also gained 10 lbs in no time flat, oh well! Small price to pay for health).

And yes to the tremors, too - my diet was awful, since there was so little I could eat without being sick. Once I got it under control, a whole host of things was better.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #28
50. And by denying the man insurance they just guaranteed that his care will cost more.
No one should be allowed to make a profit off of anyone's health. It's immoral, it's disgusting, and it's wrong.

Regards
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #50
61. are you being sarcastic?
ok so no insurance company can make a profit off your health. no doctor can make a profit off your health. so man, where are you going to get help with an illness? your statement would include researchers, can't make anything off your health, oh, and hospitals. also nurses. why don't we just eliminate health care in any form, then no bills, no being denied. the only person who would profit from your health process thinking would be undertakers/crematoriums. we could eliminate them too since they would profit from your health. what a stinky world this would be!!!!!!
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
88. Honestly?
I don't think we should *have* health insurers, who need to exploit people's illnesses in order to make money.

Non-profit. Out to spread risk and help provide coverage to anyone, not out to maximize profits for the benefit of shareholders and top execs.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #88
154. ?
who will pay the doctors and hospitals?
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #154
161. The insured will - the difference being that there won't need to
be an army of bureaucrats shuffling different papers around, and there won't be the shareholders to pay and the top execs to overpay.

We spend much more on health care than most industrialized countries.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #154
197. The fucking government, just like in any civilized society.
Just like you pay for the police and the fire department--with taxes.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
94. Personally, I would love to eliminate the insurance companies
Their motive is to make money for their shareholders/owners, not to ensure the health of their customers. The way they do that is by insuring only people they judge to be currently healthy and predict to stay that way, insuring only large groups (where the economic damage done by a few unhealthy people is minimized), and basing premiums for small groups on the health of the members of those groups, negotiating artifically low rates with providers (raising the rates for everyone else), and making it difficult to get coverage for care by requiring you to jump through unnecesssary hoops. As an example of hoop jumping, our company requires my daughter who is required to see a specialist every six months to get a new referral from her primary doc every six months, even though it is the same disease and the same specialist and the need for monitoring is unlikely to change. If something goes wrong in the referral process the insurance company refuses to pay the bill (the person who routinely processes the referrals for our primary doc was out of the office, so the fax to the insurer didn't have the right super secret code on it the last time).

That motivation actually decreases the overall level of health in the country by making care more costly for the uninsured, by keeping many who might be able to pay for a non-risk based premium uninsured, by delaying or eliminating health care for those least able to afford it because of the artificially high uninsured rates charged to subsidize the insured, and by taking a cut from every dollar available for health care for the shareholders (which keeps the rates artificially high).

That profiteering needs to stop.

Those doing research and providing care need to be paid for their work, probably fairly highly to make sure that the best and the brightest continue to choose to enter the fields and provide competent care. The prediction is that in under 10 years scientists will be able to grow organs for self-transplant - which will eliminate (or at least minimize) the need for donor transplants which are scarce and carry the risk of rejection. Without the brightest minds doing this research, these breakthroughs either wouldn't happen or would take significantly longer - and, for better or worse, money is an effective motivator.

Just cut out the middleman (the insurance company) and spread the risk around - Hmm...sounds a lot like single payer.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #61
196. Medical providers add value. Insurers are parasites that subtract value
Salk didn't make so much as one thin dime from his research, and that didn't bother him a bit.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
118. +1, Raineyb nt
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
56. Do you work for an insurance company?
If you feel the need to support them, that's fine - but don't diagnose other DUers (actually against the rules) and try to understand that this conversation is about the usefulness of an industry that only wants (by your own description) to insure perfectly healthy people.

The only people who get 'burned' in this shell game are the insured - not the insurance companies. Suggesting that someone with a serious illness (or, as the OP reported, anyone who has ever been given a prescription for a serious illness) shouldn't be insured because the company may lose money is no different than saying that the game is only fair when the insurance companies win.





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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #56
71. Well said, enlightenment! n/t
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #56
101. yes/no
as stated, worked for 30 years as life insurance medical underwriter. did not diagnose, the other du'er did that, just said it sounded worse. our society supports the healthy, the attractive, the young, why shouldn't insurance companies. insurance is an abstract commodity, you can't see it or touch it, until you need it. that is the whole problem. doctors lie or they are incompetent, patients/applicants lie, insurance companies lie, drug companies lie. an insurance company is useful to all of us when we need them but bitch when we do not. instead of trying to erase the problem and leave nothing in it's place, a solution has to be found. let there be a u.s.a. group insurance, everyone must belong unless they have private insurance with no help/bailout from the gov. pay all doctors a salary.

yes insurance is a shell game and the insured loses but that is insurance. it is a betting game. insurance companies never ever lose. as soon as a product starts to lose profit, they stop the product. however i do not see why any insurance company should take the risk that another company took. the insured should be able to take some kind of coverage with him. have you canceled your insurance in protest?
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eagertolearn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #101
131. This is excactly why we need the insurance companies out!
Those who are sick and need care can no longer fight the fight. As soon as they get something (enlarged prostrate, chrons's, arthrits and their insurance company drops them because they are a risk no one else will take them up because they have a pre-excisiting condition). Can you imagine being in fear constantly that your insurance company will drop you when you are most in need (or raise the premium so high you can't possible afford it)? Most people don't even realize this until they are sick and need their insurance and then they need to deal with this and their illness???? This is so wrong. My husband would gladly get paid less if he didn't have to pay his high malpractice insurance, take "call" all the time and worry about running an office and paying all his employees (he pays the highest to his office employees than anyone else in town in the medical profession!). Plus he pay out of pocket to go on trips every year to learn the newest techniques to bring back to our community (I don't go with him and believe me the write offs don't come close to helping with this expense!).
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
114. "crones" disease......
Is that something only old women get?
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #114
156. no old men
correct spelling is crohn's disease
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #156
205. I was trying to make a point......
and the correct spelling is "Crohn's".
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
116. Why give insurers any money?
They do nothing to deserve it.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #116
159. ?
then do not take their insurance.
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Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. IBS
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 10:00 AM by Locrian
IBS can be a whole HOST of things. A lot of it can be food allergies (wheat, dairy, sugar) and/or compounded by low cortisol.

Was he ever under a lot of stress? Been checked for adrenal fatigue? Stress can cause high, then low cortisol. W/o cortisol - your body can become "allergic" to just about anything.


At one time my "good" bacterial count was about 2%. Which is why I was starving to death (gee, go figure). PM me if you want more info. I have been there and back - despite the worst intentions of the main stream medical community and "conventional" knowledge.

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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. He has never been able to tolerate dairy
but after being treated by his new doctor for a while, he is starting to reintroduce it to his diet with a fair amount of success.

Stress...he's a trial lawyer; does that count?
:rofl:

His new doctor has him on a course of probiotics in addition to some other treatments, and he's doing much better. Glad you have overcome this as well! :hi:
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
188. Total BS - IBS?
Of all the illnesses in the world they fucking pick IBS?

None of the RX meds the doctors gave me did anything for IBS. Stupid doctor never once said, you might want to cut out dairy, or take some Acidopholis.

Ginger, fiber, mint tea very helpful too.
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #188
203. Have you gotten proper care since seeing a traditional doc?
Sounds like it. I love my holistic m.d. She's a "real" doctor who can prescribe antibiotics when necessary, plus knows all about supplements and alternative treatments. Sigh. It's such a struggle. What I learned from being denied help with my thyroid problem: Be your own best advocate, never take no for an answer, don't be afraid to "fire" your doctor--repeatedly if necessary until you find one that will help you--and fight fight FIGHT for the care you deserve. (And believe me, it is a FIGHT sometimes.) :hug:
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sarah FAILIN Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
14. My kids were denied for having asthma
They've never had any problems and only use inhalers now and then but just the A word was enough for BC/BS to deny them through Alfa when we started being self-employed and had to find our own insurance. We lied to another company and didn't tell them about the asthma but did disclose eczema on my son. They said he was excluded for 1 year on any hospitalizations or treatment of the eczema, LOL! As if you would be hospitalized for dry skin ;) BC/BS had an open enrollment come up a couple of years later and we got in that but it's not covered much of anything except hospitalizations.
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Orangeone Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. It is possible to hospitalized for eczema
my son has severe eczema. Sometimes it can be all over his body, and the rashes can get infected.

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sarah FAILIN Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #23
42. Mine has it like that too
But we've never had to be hospitalized because we've kept it treated. It's actually getting much better as he gets older, but when he was born it was horrible and in every crease on his body, even his eyelids. His scalp was horrible before we knew that it wasn't an infection like the first pediatrician thought. He itched and that was the only place he could reach to scratch so he looked pretty rough.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
49. They'll be happy to take your premiums but when your kids do need some treatment
ESPECIALLY if it's asthma, you will probably get a letter that says " a recent review of your application and relevant medical histories has been found to be inaccurate. We are terminating your Poliy(cies) effective as of today."

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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
15. According to at least one of those guidelines
in the article I would be denied coverage and I consider myself to be perfectly now. :shrug:
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
17. Unfortunately no different than car or life insurance.
You have a bad driving record or DUI's you could be denied coverage or else it would cost much more.

Same with life insurance. "Preferred rates" go to those who are healthy with higher rates to those with medical problems.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
53. preferred rates?
preferred rates to the healthy? not always, sometimes preferred rates go to the unhealthy due to stupid/ignorant/paid off underwriters. so if you know you have a health problem and get preferred rates, do not think you are healthy, look to your underwriter. but do not complain, just keep the insurance in force. case in point, wealthy applicant with family history of huntington's chorea, dumb underwriter who did not know what huntington's was and issued preferred rates. huntington;s is always fatal, long and slow, if you have the gene. second application comes in and the same underwriter issues the increased face amount. now we are up to 4 million in life insurance. such good rates, let's go for an additional 2 million. now i get the application, i start asking for the gene tests and am told none done. brother is positive for the gene but father committed suicide upon learning he had the disease. so i go to the underwriter (who is now v.p. of underwriting) who issued the earlier policies and asked why he issued the insurance. he said he did not know what huntington's was. i told him that was an underwriter's job. so he issued the new insurance, at preferred rates, to save face, told the agent to submit no more. i was criticized for causing trouble!!!! i have since retired from that company, thank god. perfect example of shit floats.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
198. Fuck insurance companies!
They are parasites that subtract value. Taxing ourselves for the care of sick people would be vastly cheaper.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. my father and child are insurance lepers due to a bleeding disorder. n/t
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
20. They will only insure people who have no health problems and potencialy...
have no problems in the future. Money for nothing! Sociopaths!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Money for nothing perfectly describes these vultures.
x(
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
102. perfect example
money for nothing? you are paying for insurance/assurance that when you get sick you will get help. hold that policy in your hand, that is what you are paying for. stop bitching if you do not understand insurance, like health, life, car, homeowners etc.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. Money for nothing is when you allegedly have insurance then get sick and it won't pay.
Stop bitching about people bitching about that.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #106
158. pay
they pay depending on your medical condition and your policy. also what your doctor is charging and what the allowable amount is for that condition. does anyone read their policy? question when they do not understand?
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #158
160. policy
You mean the policies written with so many escape clauses that insurers have a limitless supply of excuses not to pay--those policies?

Since most privately insured people are covered by group plans, what they pay is based on a pool risk. What it covers usually sounds like a generous plan. The devil is in the details. I read the policies. I also know that in nearly every instance there's a caveat that allows insurers to reneg. It's a racket and most people know it. That's why there is such a clamor for a different model.

Thirty years ago it was fairly easy to understand what major medical indemnity policies covered and what they would not. Of course back then the documents given to participants were written in common English not obfuscatory language. Those major medical plans did excludes lots of health costs including most preventative medicine and consumers weren't happy about that -- that's a reason that HMOs became so successful and eventually the old style indemnity plans pretty much disappeared in favor of PPOs and HMOs. Consumers are fed up with the way the current crop of plans deliver services and that's why in a few short years we'll have a new model of health care financing, and with any luck this time the insurance companies will be shown the door.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #102
121. We all understand that
you are a spokesman for the insurance industry. That is what we understand. We also understand that removing insurance company profits from the equation will make healthcare run better for everyone except the insurance company. We have heard your lies before. You have spent millions to convince us that socialized medicine doesn't work. We now see you for what you are.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #121
167. ?
i am not a spokesperson for the insurance industry. i do not agree with the insurers but the sooner everyone accepts the fact that the insurance industry is a business, out for a profit for their share holders, the sooner we can seriously start looking for alternatives. how many of you bitched when hilary tried to get better health care in force?

insurance companies do not lie, you just believe without checking. why i remember when just the words socialized medicine would send people for cover. oh my god what is this country coming to, socialized medicine!!!! they spent the millions because this country is so lazy, only wanting 5 second sound bites, that they never tried to understand what socialized medicine was. so we get rid of the insurance profits, hence the companies are gone too. now you have to go to the hospital for bypass, how much money will you have up front before the hospital will admit you? in 1997 my husband's bypass was 50,000. today it is probably over 200,000.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #102
199. Bullshit. They will deny help in any way they can
Their purpose is to kill off sick people for profit, while taking money from the healthy. They subtract value by wasting money on profits and administration. You don't have to drive, and you can rent instead of own. Without health care, you can die. That makes it different, and parasites should not be allowed to profit.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
122. +1, SammyWinstonJack! nt
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
24. Catch 22 in a big way..
You take meds, insurance refuses you.
And yes, it is obvious the list of meds will grow and grow and grow.
But
Big Pharma is saturating media with all their ads about all their pills, for every imaginable ailment,
and even calls your doctor a "presciber" ( "see your presciber for more information")
thus making huge profits for wildly overpriced drugs ( for now).
so that the number of people, including children, who are being often needlessly put on medications
continues to grow.
So insurance companies raise premiums because their pool of insured is growing smaller, yet they don't pay out on anything without a lawsuit, thus making huge profits ( for now).

You can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin a sheep once.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
103. you said it all.
i saw those ads referring to doctors as "your prescriber". give me a break. these drug companies make up diseases, or they reword the disease to sound different. or they take 2 drugs and combine them sell a "new drug" and probably keep the patent.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. If you lie about what you are taking to get insurance
whether or not there are data mining companies out there, you don't gain anything. As soon as the insurance companies find out you lied, your coverage (including everything they have already paid on your behalf), is gone.
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
163. But this isn't about excluding pre-existing conditions

This is about just flat-out refusing to insure.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #163
192. That's how the game works.
If you told the truth they would have refused to issue you a policy based the risk they perceive is posed by whatever medication or condition you had (whether or no you ever need treatment for that condition or not). If they issue you a policy based on a lie, and they find out, your coverage is void because you obtained it based on a falsehood.
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #192
207. I can't see your overall point then.
Edited on Mon Mar-30-09 03:34 PM by caseymoz
What you've written so far is totally true. But are you defending them for doing this? Are you only saying that it's totally expected?

It can't be defended that they deny all insurance for a pre-existing condition-- I mean just from a moral point of view, unless the government then picks up the slack, which it isn't.

Corporate handled medical is the pits.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #207
208. Just stating how the companies work.
The reality of how they operate has nothing to do with whether it is moral to operate that way.

I have a pre-existing condition that no doctor I have ever spoken with thinks will ever cause any trouble at all - and certainly with today's medical procedures would cost them no more than a couple thousand dollars. I was denied for insurance, even though I was willing to waive all right to any treatment for the condition or anything related to the condition. Absolutely not moral, but I know from personal experience that is how they operate.
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SeeHopeWin Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
27. I had to go through this process recently, it was amazing how the person on the phone (Humana)
knew all medications I have ever taken, she was looking in this same database mentioned here...She would ask me about medications I bought back in 2000 and earlier...etc. Luckily (maybe) I had allergies which required certain drugs to treat, the same drug had gone generic, I no longer use insurance to buy it...So they let me go (so to speak, again maybe...) it has been few months now on my new policy, still worried they may cancel it for some reason. Same kind of general issue exists for my wife...Always holding our breath!

My # 1 issue this past election was THIS issue ---- By far!

I am behind President Obama 100%!
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
31. Paging Doctor Dean
I think Obama left Dean out of his inner circle so that Dean could move single payer forward without forcing Obama is lift the heavy load.
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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
133. Here's Dr. Dean!
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #133
146. yes!
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
33. Rheumatoid Arthritis and diabetes here
Well 2 strikes against me and since Obama says single payer costs too much, well, that's the third strike :-(
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. I'm the only one in our family that has actually been denied
coverage - and have nothing on Vista's list that would currently prevent me from obtaining coverage. BUT since I was once denied coverage, no one will accept me even though the denial seemed to be based on a quirk in someone's underwriting practices which would not directly prevent me from obtaining coverage today under most insurer's lists - but they always ask if you have been denied, and then defer to the other company's judgment.

The other two in my household, each have multiple conditions or medications that would deny coverage.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
107. own information
sorry but an insurance company cannot deny you based on another company's findings, they must develop their own. why have an underwriting department in each company, just outsource to the one company. if you really think you have been treat unfairly, ask for details in writing, specific details in writing. then if not satisfied go to the department of insurance. the companies i worked for, life insurance, would jump through hoops to avoid the state insurance commish looking onto things.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #107
132. Every insurance policy I have applied for
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 04:32 PM by Ms. Toad
asks the question, "Have you ever been denied for insurance before?" It is not that they are relying on a finding by another company, they consider denial by another insurance company an independent risk factor. Since it has been on every policy I have applied for (between 6 and 10), I highly doubt the practice is any more illegal than denying on any factor they deem to increase the risk they pose to your profit.

Edited to add: The only policies that have easy online applications are for short term insurance - a link to one follows - just answer every question as if you were the healthiest person in the world, but answer the previous denial question "yes."
http://www.assuranthealth.com/corp/ah /

These policies have modified the question since the last time I actually applied for insurance - it is now denied for a health condition that still exists (which is correct in my case - it still exists although it has required no treatment for over 10 years and is not expected ever to need any additional treatment - ever. Folks in Missouri are exempt from answering the question - but anywhere else you are required to answer it and it is apparently a legitimate basis for denial.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #132
169. ?
they ask a number of questions that are designed to trip up someone who is not telling the truth. if you are denied because the other company denied you, then you have a reason to go to the insurance department. but you can bet they will get the information that the other company had and if the medical situation is the same, they will deny you. but they must get the denying info on their own and it must be in the file, independent from the other company. another thing few realize is that when you apply but withdraw app before any underwriting takes place, even with clean medical history, the date of that application is reported to the mib. sort of like when applying for credit, even if you do not accept the credit, your report will show you applied.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #169
191. Go fill out the application at the url I provided.
The denial is immediate, and based only on the response to the single question. Use a fake identity if you don't want to have the denial reported against your name. It appears that this practice is only illegal in Missouri (that is the only state exempt from responding to the question).

Please provide a link to the law or regulation that supports your assertion, since it does not conform to my fairly significant experiences to the contrary.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
120. His plan involves community rating and no denail for pre-existing condition
Meaning that insurance companies can't charge sick people more for insurance and they can't deny sick people coverage.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
34. Single-payor is the only way to go, insurance companies can't be trusted!
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
41. Somebody on my bowling team had to switch identities with his sick brother to get him treatment

At some point, the insurance company started to figure things out / he had to leave the country (and our bowling team) because they were starting to come after him. Nice way of doing business - the desperate measures people take just to have health. Wondering if they should create an extended version of SICKO for the masses with all the extra footage that didn't make it to the movie.

Would be eye-opening I'm sure.


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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
44. I had 2 heart attacks and a quad bypass. I found that NO ONE
would insure anyone who has had any type of open chest surgery except Blue Cross. They wanted $800/month just for me, which is more than my income (retirement, not yet on social security).
I finally found a PA state sponsored insurer that accepted me, had to change all my doctors and hospital, but I'm covered at least.....

This is no healthcare "system" - this is just a racket.

mark
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
52. If these clauses are left in a new universal health care bill then President
Obama will have truly let us down. However, we need the do our part. As FDR said to his liberal friends - go home and make me do it. If there is ever a march planned for DC I think we need to have supportive marches in all counties at the local federal buildings to show support. Legal demonstrations yet throughout the entire country.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
54. The health insurance industry kills people.
The health insurance industry stifles innovation in business.

The health insurance industry bunkrupts individuals and organizations, up to and including our nation.

We must shut them down now.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
55. Insurance is like lending someone an umbrella for a fee and then asking for the umbrella back...
...when it starts to rain.

Insurance is a scam by definition, it's all about getting people who need coverage the least to pay you while denying coverage to people who need coverage the most.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #55
110. it's true - we need no fault insurance by the govt for all, and no fault health care for all

oh, and justice for all
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #55
124. +1, Odin! nt
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #55
172. Just like Rainmaker Movie!
We all need to do away with insurance companies. They want too much money from us then they either deny or give us a drop in the bucket. They're thieves!
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eagertolearn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #55
210. That was good. I wish I could of thought up an example like that! n/t
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
72. Insurance, Lawyers and Lobbyists, do away with them all.
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subterranean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
73. I am shocked -- SHOCKED! -- to find out this is going on.
Not.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
77. Insurance companies are the problem.
They need to be eliminated from the process.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
78. stupid medical reporters?
the medical information bureau is not a data gathering source. the M.I.B is a holder of information from insurance companies. these are health codes, the underwriter reports them. the reporting company must have the information, that they developed, from a medical facility. it is coded. when a new company gets an app then the authorization the applicant signed allows the new company to go the m.i.b. what the company gets is any health codes, the date the code was reported, the code for the company reporting the code. no action against the insured can be taken based on that code except to investigate the code themselves by requesting records, tests and whatever else is needed to verify that health code. for instance, you apply for insurance and report you had a heart attack 3 years earlier, when the processing of your app is completed, the company MUST report through code the heart attack to the m.i.b. let's say this company denied your application because the heart was really bad. now you go to another company and lie through your teeth about your health. but the new company has this code from another coded company. so the new company must start investigating your health. if they run into dead end because you are lying or the code was on the wrong person, then the new company can go to the mib and ask for the reporting company to contact you. at this point the new company still does not know who reported the code. when the reporting company tells their source for the code then the new company must go to the source and get their own information. without the mib insurance companies will quit. the number of people lying and doctors lying to help their patient, is remarkable!!!!!!
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #78
87. Yes, gawd forbid that a health system should actually be run to help the sick!
It's really just so that the middlemen insurance vultures can make big bucks scraping off resources that could actually be used for treatment!

Yes, the real purpose of any health system is to enrich insurance companies.

Those who actually want to heal the sick are just terrorists, anyway! (Or are they Mexican drug lords? I can't always keep up with the fear du jour these days. - Oh, for the good old days when Commies were always the bad guys!)
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #78
108. yes, insurance companies SHOULD quit.
There should not be a profit motive in health care, and the insurance companies are the biggest part of the problem. I want them gone and replaced by a government program.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #78
147. Cool! Let's get rid of the M.I.B. then!
Get the damned insurance companies out of the health care business. They add nothing of value to the current system.
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mamameow Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
84. stop
one of the ways to stop the rising health care cost is get advertising for drugs off the television and print media. ever hear the ad for acute coronary syndrome? no such animal, but they get away with advertising it. plavix is no different than aspirin. depression hurts? of course it does because you are laying around feeling depressed, no we have to have a pill for the depression and the "pain" of depression. to stop the health crisis, we need the drug companies regulated or better regulated. ever wonder how many doctors have stock in the drug companies. stop paying the docs to push their drugs with perks. the whole medical/health care/drug companies are a huge steaming pile of cow dung!!!!!!!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #84
125. Yes, regulate drug companies
and do away with health insurance altogether! Perfect solution!
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trickyguy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
90. Been victimized and discriminated by Insurance companies. I've lied too.
Went without insurance for three years as a gay man still traveling in the age of AIDS.

Until I got covered by a state plan for those denied by the insurance industry.

And then Medicare came along. Howard Dean is totally right about the importance of Medicare as a choice.

But I wouldn't trust anyone in the insurance industry to come up with a viable, affordable plan.

:+
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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
91. Well of course insurers seek to lower risk by denying coverage.
What we need to do---is it possible? --- is to make a list of Congressmen/women
who have conditions like these, but get their nice government health care,
and publish the list.

Haves and have nots. The haves are all in Congress.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #91
141. It's really too bad we can't tell our elected employess (aka Congress)
that we can no longer afford to subsidize their health care and we'll have to move them to a high deductible plan - maybe even a HSA plan.

That's what's happening to a lot of Americans.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
92. Thank you for finding this article
It's very timely for my family. Just last week my 16 year old son was switched from Blue Cross to Aetna. He's never had an surgeries and the only care he's required is some antibiotics for his acne. You know the cheap ones. It took an extra two weeks and he was put in a class B. I was quoted 90.00 bucks a month but then got billed for 110.00. I have looked everywhere to find out what a "Class B' actually means but it's also impossible to find any info.

So now that I know, somewhere on the web it may exist, I will keep researching. Now I don't know if I should have him stay with Blue Cross, who I had no idea what is class is, or go to Aetna. This is private pay by the way, no job related insurance.

If anyone knows what a Class B actually means, please respond or PM me. Thanks.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
95. K&R
:kick:
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MonteLukast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
100. It makes me never want to go to the doctor for anything, no matter how sick I get.
And I won't, until we get single-payer.

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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
105. An insurance application should be the size of an index card
and ask for your name, your address, your phone number, your SS#.

As noted above, they ALREADY have access to all your medical info through pooled insurance and pharmeceutical records.

Their primary goal in life is to get premiums from the largest number as long as possible and drop those who USE insurance for medical needs or illness as quickly as possible.

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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
117. I have a question, if you are prescribed a medicine, and you end up deciding it's not for you,
how do these data gathering agencies know whether you've actually followed the regime or not, and whether the prescribing practitioner was correct to begin with.

And, of course, this may be a stupid question, given that insurers are looking for any reason to kick you off coverage or prolong litigation.
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sallylou666 Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
128. Drug Company ads
The reason that drug ads say "ask your prescriber" is because the drug companies have defense through the doctor's treatment. If your doctor prescribes a patient a drug, the drug company has a defense that the "learned intermediary" gave the drug to the patient. The drug companies do not want to lose this defense! The drug companies over advertised birth control pills and lost the defense.

Personally, I believe that drug companies should lose this defense for every drug it advertises directly to the consumer. "Ask your doctor if X is right for you" is good close enough for direct marketing to me.
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belpejic Donating Member (431 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
138. I'm skeptical about big pharma
But I've been in situations where rx meds have dramatically, impossibly rapidly improved my health. I think I have smart doctors and at present (though not for much longer) I have a very good health plan. Health care is one more item to add to the list of inequalities in the US today. It's an incredibly maddening situation, especially for a faithful and accurate taxpayer. But that's where we are. We live in a crappy economy and in a country that has completely ignored rational, public service-oriented policymaking for a long time. It sucks, but hopefully we can find ways to help out each other without involving our corrupt, usurious, and unhelpful institutions.

BTW, I voted in the Obama reelection poll, and I don't think there's a chance that he'll get another term. I love the man and am incredibly proud that he's my president, but he's shown no signs yet of any willingness to make deep systemic changes that are good for you and me. He'll be punished at the polls, and we'll probably end up with another weird conservative who shops a populist message while simultaneously completely screwing us.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
143. How insurers secretly blacklist millions with common ailments
Source: McClatchy

* Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009
How insurers secretly blacklist millions with common ailments

By John Dorschner | Miami Herald

Trying to buy health insurance on your own and have gallstones? You'll automatically be denied coverage. Rheumatoid arthritis? Automatic denial. Severe acne? Probably denied. Do you take metformin, a popular drug for diabetes? Denied. Use the anti-clotting drug Plavix or Seroquel, prescribed for anti-psychotic or sleep problems? Forget about it.

Trying to buy health insurance on your own and have gallstones? You'll automatically be denied coverage. Rheumatoid arthritis? Automatic denial. Severe acne? Probably denied.

What's more, you can discover that if you lie to an insurer about your medical history and drug use, you will be rejected because data-mining companies sell information to insurers about your health, including detailed usage of prescription drugs.

These issues are moving to the forefront as the Obama administration and Congress gear up for discussions about how to reform the healthcare system so that Americans won't be rejected for insurance.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/330/story/65010.html
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. Constantly being ripped-off for huge profits by insurance corporations that have no concern about
Edited on Sun Mar-29-09 05:47 PM by GreenTea
our health nor our well being...just raking in government money (our taxes) and our paychecks and insurance companies offer us little or no coverage when it's time to pay...it's a cold-hearted, calculating, greed infested business insurance companies dealing with our health & profiting from the healthy until they too become sick, the more they fuck over the sick & desperate the more profit the insurance companies make, for their corporate jets and lavish playground lifestyles...

Now someone tell me that to use our taxes for single payer Universal Health Care for ALL is not better than giving our dollars to the insurance companies for profit getting little or no benefits in return, corporations who won't even insurance the very sick and people who really need medical attention but can't afford the outrageous insurance premiums!
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Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #144
145. And these will be the same effers
who are against healthcare reform, of course. Greedy effin swine. We try to change things so that people can afford coverage/care and they lobby against it so that they can continue to rake in profits while denying people coverage.
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nilram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
150. woohoo r #50
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cbc5g Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
155. This is obvious, I know from experience
so I know it's not just me
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
175. My LTOE re: Single-Payer Health Care
The momentum is growing in Congress for the passage of HR676, Single-Payer Health Care. Senator Sanders has introduced companion legislation in the Senate. More House members are signing on as co-sponsors every week.

Anyone who takes a good, rational look at single-payer, including majorities of U.S. Voters in recent polls, agrees with every other major industrial democracy that it's the only way to cover the health care needs of all of the people and manage costs.

President Obama has already said he would "prefer single-payer" to any other compromise method. The people want it. Now it's time for the media and a few "leaders" in Congress to stop blocking the most reasonable and rational path to Universal, affordable Health Care - Single-Payer.

It's time to start arguing on the merits and stop repeating the lies that "nobody wants it" and "we couldn't possibly do it"

Yes, we do want it! Yes, we can do it!


http://www.peaceteam.net/action/pnum935.php


http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Poll-Excludes-Single-P...
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2003/may/results_of_sf_chroni....
http://www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/blog/shum-preston/2...
http://www.capitolweekly.net/article.php?xid=wvaok74ota...
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
176. Enbrel & Humira
VERY important for remission of auto-immune diseases (psoriasis, PsArthritis, Rhuematiod Athritis and Ankylong spindiosis (sp?))
These diseases are not only painful and have the ability to deteriorate joints.... but the chronic inflammation can cause heart trouble, digestive disorders, depresion, and other related issues)

These shots usually amount to about 2-6 doses a month = $1500 to $3000
that comes out to about 500 - 800 PER SHOT!!!

even with a copay, that is outrageous
when dealing with NO insurance, then we are talki8ng about Medicaid programs through the state
One who has this affliction has to go through YEARS of clinic treatment - mostly with those who have no understanding of autoimmune issues, who prescribe cream for skin lesions, and the internal inflamation continues unchecked...not to mention those who have he audacity to tell you "it's all in your head"...or "you're depressed"
...Hell yah I am depressed! I feel like I am 90 years old at 37 and nobody will help me!!!!
Perhaps you get a referral to a specialist (rare) or have to go to a cash doctor to get the prescription (common), because the scrip can't be issued by the clinic doc, perhaps the prescription ois then put through another few months of stalling... because the medical records have to be sent through the channels to a beuracrat who decids the fate of one's LIFE

WHY do the PHarm co's get to charge so much for something it probably takes them $50 to make?
WHY don't they give a different rate to state-funded insurances?
WTF?

Meanwhile, I am waiting for my next deferral, or an appeal... and my body slowly gives way beneath me....
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
180. anyone watch Obama on Face the Nation notice that

there was a point when Bob Schieffer was listing items the President's plan and he skipped health care and Obama jumped in, rather strongly and said 'Health Care!'. I think he has drawn the line in the sand and either we will have health care or he will make sure everyone who contributed to it not happening will be held accountable for the remaining tenure of his Presidency. I'm guessing that would mean no campaign appearances. No support for others' fringe issues in Congress, etc. This is his measure of those around him in Congress who want things back from him.

I truly think that moment with his mother in the hospital has changed him and we will not step back from the idea of a user-needs-based, user-designed, user-friendly health care plan. My guess is he will constantly put his mother into the 'plan' and see how she would have fared - and if it isn't good, he won't accept it.

It's a good measure perhaps, but definitely he has a touch stone to this issue. Hoping its power will continue to affect the plan offered up.
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
181. Data Miners Use CVS/Supermarket Shopper's Cards???
The news report says that some of the info comes from data mining companies. I wonder if they use the shopper discount cards from CVS and many supermarkets? If so, it would be a good idea to not use that cards when you buy your prescriptions.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #181
182. that's a GREAT point - and CASH ONLY - it's getting ridiculously absurd out there

thanks for posting that - wouldn't have even given it a thought, grocery-card or otherwise!
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
184. That clears up a lot!
The public private split is designed to move the least healthy to the governments care and the most healthy into the private insurance sector.

Insurance companies will make huge profits on healthy people for services that they will never collect on. Many of these same folks will pay again in taxes for others who the insurace companies will not cover.

Quite the scam these guys have going.

We need single payer healthcare now, for all Americans. Yes, even for the douche bags. :P
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
187. As if having a disease or illness wasn't bad enough by itself,
so let's just add this whole other bucket of crap on the pile. We must take profit out of health care. Could you imagine if, for example, our fire departments were profit-driven?
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
189. Criminal Insurance Companies
make me puke. Profits over human lives. Get the profit out of health care. Michael Moore is correct! Only in America! America ranked #38 in the world in health care and for good reason. Insurance companies and drug companies.
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canineunits Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
201. We need an overhaul of the whole system sooo badly
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
204. Actually, no, I never wonder why insurance will never be fair
As long as insurance resides in the hands of private companies whose profit margins depend upon maximizing premiums and minimizing coverage, there's nothing even remotely mysterious about why any resultant services will consistently and thoroughly suck from the point of view of the consumer, whose interests are naturally antithetical to those of the insurer. That seems so plain, self-evident, and incontestable, I never understand how anyone could possibly expect anything different.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:40 PM
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206. This goes to prove two things:
That insurance as it's set up in this country will never be fair to those who actually need it, and that the threat of privacy is just as strong, if not stronger, from the free market than government. In this case, they worked hand in hand like they often do.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 09:55 PM
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212. Health insurance companies are parasites. - n/t
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