Spanish court considers trying former US officials

[azurnoir]

Source: Associated Press

MADRID, (AP) -- A Spanish court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay, a lawyer in the case said Saturday.

The ex-Bush officials are Gonzales; former undersecretary of defense for policy Douglas Feith; former Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff David Addington; Justice Department officials John Yoo and Jay S. Bybee; and Pentagon lawyer William Haynes.

Spanish law allows courts to reach beyond national borders in cases of torture or war crimes under a doctrine of universal justice, though the government has recently said it hopes to limit the scope of the legal process.

Garzon became famous for bringing charges against former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet in 1998, and he and other Spanish judges have agreed to investigate alleged abuses everywhere from Tibet to Argentina's "dirty war," El Salvador and Rwanda



Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_SPAIN_US_TORTURE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-03-28-23-41-54

[chill_wind]

1. We continue to harbor and protect war criminals,

leaving it to the world to eventually do for us what we cannot bring ourselves to do.

K & R

[Webster Green]

2. Good, but they should add the chimp and the big dick to the list..

Those two should be at the top of the list. :wtf:

[Hardrada]

3. Condosleezy too

[azurnoir]

4. Big D is on the list

as far as Chimp goes I dunno may the Spanish decided to go after the brains of the outfit or perhaps they don't try the mentally challenged or something

[Webster Green]

5. I didn't see his name anywhere..

They listed his chief of staff, David Addington.

[azurnoir]

9. Which big d do you mean?

I took it as meaning Dick Cheney and he was the seco0nd name after Doug Feith

[Sanity Claws]

20. Cheney was not named

Cheney's name was used to identify who Addington was but Cheney himself is not part of the list.

[Left Coast2020]

6. When in the hell are they going to stop talking and

...start prosecuting these bastards? Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words. I don't care which country arrests these thugs, as long as someone puts them in cuffs, that is all that matters.

[michreject]

23. I'd say never

In all honesty.

[Optical.Catalyst]

12. Any prosecution of the Bush Administration is a good thing

When the Spanish go through the discovery process, evidence against Bush and Cheney will be revealed. As the confirmed, indisputable evidence against Bush is made public, the outcry to send him to Leavenworth will become overwhelming.

[tavalon]

13. The Hague, not Leavenworth

[Optical.Catalyst]

15. The inside of any jail cell works for me. n/t

[AndyTiedye]

28. The Hague is Where They Belong

Second choice, we re-open Alcatraz just for them. Cheney can have Al Capone's old cell.
Keep running the tours and all. We want to be able to keep an eye on those bastards.

[Optical.Catalyst]

14. Oops, posted in the wrong place. n/t

[Juche]

7. Damn, I came here to post that

Ah well. As long as people know about it.

[grillo7]

8. It's about time someone does! n/t

[indimuse]

10. knr!!

This ladder has more *rungs*...I hope they choose to climb higher-ALL the way to the top!

[dcindian]

11. It is so sad our country has come to this.

Leader?

Democrats?


Anyone in power in the US interested in justice?

Nope. I bet the administration does everything in it's power to protect the torturers.

[Meeker Morgan]

16. The current administration doesn't want to set any precedent ...

... of subordinating the United States to foreign courts.

[Hissyspit]

17. They don't have to. We can prosecute here.

Clean our own dirty laundry so that we don't have to end up in situations where we defend the indefensible against countries that are justifiably trying to do the right thing. One more reason Bush/Cheney should have BEEN impeached and should BE investigated and indicted.

[Hissyspit]

18. Here is my original posting of Scott Horton's article from Friday night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3804518&mesg_id=3804518

He talks to a "source" and links to the original Spanish-language news article.

[notesdev]

19. I'd recommend against it

We already tried those guys, and it didn't work out too well over here.

[ima_sinnic]

21. watch for the Spain hate-fest to begin on faux

"freedom fly," anyone?

the widdle wangers will be calling for a boycott and whining about "furriners" daring to question the sovereignty & superiority of the U.S. over the entire planet.

[Capt. America]

22. Maybe this will force the hand of the Obama justice department, namely,

if the US does not want its former officials tried overseas, we should do it here instead.

[Golden Raisin]

24. We don't need Spain

or anyone else to wash our dirty laundry. Senator Leahy and/or some other Congresspeople will perhaps hold a few committee meetings, wag their fingers very sternly, read their tsk-tsk-tsk's into the record and then go back to Beltway business as usual.

[L. Coyote]

25. NY TIMES: Spain weighs torture inquiry for six Bush officials

Why do I get the impression the accused still write stories in the NY Times at their whim?

Stuff like "some American experts" said tip off any dufus that the story
just slipped off the journalism path into an ill-crafted fog of nebulosity.

The phrase "near certainty that the warrants would not lead to arrests" is what His Excellency and Supreme Dictator Augusto Pinochet thought. WRONG!!
In the ill-crafted fog of nebulosity, I guess the US does not even have a Justice Department. LOL.
Like other Supreme Dictators of the past, Mr. Bush and his nefarious cronies will now discover he lost "His Excellency" along with his office.

=================
Spanish Court Weighs Inquiry on Torture for 6 Bush-Era Officials
By Marlise Simons - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/world/europe/29spain.html?bl&ex=1238472000&en=c80c6a0c9c8527c2&ei=5087%0A
New York Times / March 29, 2009


LONDON — A Spanish court has taken the first steps toward opening a criminal investigation ... an official close to the case said.

.... sent to the prosecutor’s office for review by Baltasar Garzón, the crusading investigative judge who ordered the arrest of the former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. The official said that it was “highly probable” that the case would go forward .....

... a step toward ascertaining the legal accountability of top Bush administration officials for allegations of torture and mistreatment of prisoners in the campaign against terrorism. But some American experts said that even if warrants were issued their significance could be more symbolic than practical, and that it was a near certainty that the warrants would not lead to arrests if the officials did not leave the United States. ...

.... for more than four years, the Justice Department ethics office has been conducting its own investigation into the work of Mr. Yoo and some of his colleagues. ...

[L. Coyote]

26. HORTON, Human Rights Lawyer blogs this news: "court now may seek ... arrest"

HORTON: Bush Torture Lawyers Targeted in Criminal Probe

March 28, 1:07 AM, 2009 · No Comment
Bush Torture Lawyers Targeted in Criminal Probe
By Scott Horton - http://harpers.org/archive/2009/03/hbc-90004640



One of America’s NATO allies—which supported the Bush Administration’s war on terror by committing its troops to the struggle–has now opened formal criminal inquiries looking into the Bush team’s legacy of torture. The action parallels a criminal probe into allegations of torture involving the American CIA that was opened this week in the United Kingdom.

Spain’s national newspapers, El País and Público reported that the Spanish national security court has opened a criminal probe focusing on Bush Administration lawyers who pioneered the descent into torture at the prison in Guantánamo. The criminal complaint can be examined here. Público identifies the targets as University of California law professor John Yoo, former Department of Defense general counsel William J. Haynes II (now a lawyer working for Chevron), former vice presidential chief-of-staff David Addington, former attorney general and White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, former Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee, now a judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, and former Undersecretary of Defense Doug Feith.

The case was opened in the Spanish national security court, the Audencia Nacional. In July 2006, the Spanish Supreme Court overturned the conviction of a former Spanish citizen who had been held in Guantánamo, labeling the regime established in Guantánamo a “legal black hole.” The court forbade Spanish cooperation with U.S. authorities in connection with the Guantánamo facility. The current criminal case evolved out of an investigation into allegations, sustained by Spain’s Supreme Court, that the Spanish citizen had been tortured in Guantánamo.

The Spanish criminal court now may seek the arrest of any of the targets .....

[Buenaventura]

27. ¡Viva España!

[IndianaGreen]

29. This is the same judge that went against Pinochet and Kissinger

He has strong anti-terrorist credentials.

[OKNancy]

30. kick

[kpete]

31. Judge OKs probe of torture complaint against Bush officials

Source: CNN


updated 12:38 p.m. EDT, Sun March 29, 2009

Judge OKs probe of torture complaint against Bush officials

(CNN) -- A senior Spanish judge has ordered prosecutors to investigate whether key Bush aides should be charged with crimes over the Guantanamo Bay detention center, a lawyer said Sunday.

Garzon says the case can be brought under Spanish law because several Spaniards were held at Guantanamo.

Investigating magistrate Baltasar Garzon has passed a 98-page complaint to prosecutors that accuses former Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and five others of being the legal architects of system that allowed torture in violation of international law, human rights lawyer Gonzalo Boye told CNN.

Prosecutors will review the document to determine if a crime has been committed.

The prosecutor's office will make a decision within five days, said Boye, one of the report's authors. Garzon accepted the complaint under Spanish law because there were several Spaniards at Guantanamo who allegedly suffered torture.


Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/03/29/gonzales.spain.gitmo/index.html

[OKNancy]

32. LOL - still a dupe even with the edit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3805444&mesg_id=3805444

[MiaCulpa]

33. Update: Spanish judge approves criminal probe of Bush officials

Source: Raw Story

UPDATE: A Spanish judge has approved a probe of torture complaints against former Bush officials...

Read more: http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Spanish_criminal_probe_targets_Bush_torture_0328.html

[ixion]

34. k/r

:woohoo:

[pleah]

35. K&R

[libodem]

36. I'd give up every material possession I own

any money I ever hope to have, and my first born son, to see someone at least accuse these criminals of the wrongdoing they have committed. I'm praying so hard to everything that is holy that what they did doesn't go un-noticed and un- rebuked. Oh Please, Dear God, Let someone denounce these horrible NeoNazis.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

37. Once tried (and hopefully convicted) in absentia

none of them will be able to leave our borders ever again without fear of arrest.

...On second thought, this is a good thing? :rofl:

[rambler_american]

50. And lest we forget

they can get busted in Brattleboro too.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/03/04/in_brattleboro_bush_cheney_indictment_on_ballot/

Two Vermont towns approve Bush-Cheney indictment articles
Email|Print| Text size – + By John Curran
Associated Press Writer / March 4, 2008

BRATTLEBORO, Vt.—Voters in two southern Vermont towns passed articles Tuesday calling for the indictment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney for violating the Constitution.

More symbolic than substantive, the items sought to have police arrest Bush and Cheney if they ever visit Brattleboro or nearby Marlboro or to extradite them for prosecution elsewhere -- if they're not impeached first.

In Brattleboro, the vote was 2,012 for and 1,795 against. In Marlboro, it was 43 to 25, with three abstentions.

[zalinda]

38. At least some government officials have balls

just not ours.

zalinda

[Vidar]

39. Thank you, Spain. k&r.

[MasonJar]

40. Good for the Spanish and the UK. Now what is wrong with us; our government

is the instigator of these crimes? Why are others having to do our job for us? Obama must be the catalyst for the investigation. Why won't he do what he was elected to do?

[eppur_se_muova]

41. Now on CNN (link)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/03/29/gonzales.spain.gitmo/index.html

(CNN) -- A senior Spanish judge has ordered prosecutors to investigate whether key Bush aides should be charged with crimes over the Guantanamo Bay detention center, a lawyer said Sunday.

Investigating magistrate Baltasar Garzon has passed a 98-page complaint to prosecutors that accuses former Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and five others of being the legal architects of system that allowed torture in violation of international law, human rights lawyer Gonzalo Boye told CNN.

Prosecutors will review the document to determine if a crime has been committed.

The prosecutor's office will make a decision within five days, said Boye, one of the report's authors. Garzon accepted the complaint under Spanish law because there were several Spaniards at Guantanamo who allegedly suffered torture.

The complaint was filed in March 2008 by Boye and the Association for the Rights of Prisoners.

[burning rain]

44. Garzon -- same judge who went after Pinochet.

Appropriate! And I'm sure that just like the Pinochetistas, the Bushies will toss out red herrings about leftist politics.

[TheEuclideanOne]

42. For those of us who are slow, what does this mean to us?

As one of the many folks here who would like to see the Bush Crime Familty prosecuted, what exactly does it mean to have a foreign government prosecute our President? Can they really do anything or is it just a country formally showing their position?

[Solon]

45. Well, theoratically, if the prosecution goes through, and they ask for warrants for arrests...

Then many members of the Bush administration cannot leave the United States. I doubt the United States would honor an extradition request, but its possible that other countries wouldn't be nearly so generous to Bush Administration officials. Similar to how Henry Kissinger can't really go to certain countries because he's wanted as a "person of interest" for war crimes.

[Stargleamer]

43. Alas, they're leaving out The Idiot

but then again he was an Idiot. At least now that village in Texas is no longer missing its Idiot.

[Zhade]

46. See, Obama? Now THAT'S change. And courage.

You could learn a thing or two.

[annabanana]

47. Viva Espania!!

Good job.

[Dystopian]

48. YES! KandR.

If I live long enough...I may get comfort in knowing that they are behind bars.
One can only hope for justice.
Murders and torturers......




peace~

[X_Digger]

49. Can they use..

'extraordinary rendition' to snatch them from the US to stand trial?? :)

[rambler_american]

51. K&R

:kick:
I so want those evil bastards prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned.

[Politicalboi]

52. Let the party begin

I hope to see the day Bush/Cheney go to jail.

[Blandocyte]

53. This. Is. So. Cool!

nt

[valerief]

54. K&R

:kick:

[chill_wind]

55. ..

[New Dawn]

56. K&R - note that our own "justice" system refuses to hold Bush accountable for his crimes.

The "justice" system in the USA is only an instrument that the super-rich use against the rest of the population. It is not meant to hold them accountable for their crimes.

[Titonwan]

57. It's a damned shame our President and this country can't be honest.

What's up with that shit? And we're only 5% of the world's poplulation, yet have 23% of the worlds prisoners locked up in our prisons. Stupid drug laws
keep more Americans in prison than China and Russia COMBINED. Yet we can't put the worst criminals in Jail (Bush and Co.). What the hell's up with that.