Tesla unveils groundbreaking electric car.

[sarcasmo]

Source: Los Angeles (AFP)

Snip< The futuristic zero-emission vehicle will be powered by lithium-ion battery packs capable of between 160 and 300 miles (257 and 482 kilometers) per charge.

Snip< The car has an anticipated base price of 57,400 dollars but will cost less than 50,000 after a federal tax credit of 7,500 dollars, Musk said.

While the price tag is steep compared to other mass-market sedans, Tesla has stressed that tax incentives, relatively inexpensive maintenance and refueling will make the car competitive with cheaper rival sedans.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090326/ts_afp/usautotesla...

---

It seems like no one wants to make an electric car that the average person can afford.

[BlooInBloo]

1. " It seems like no one wants to make an electric car that the average person can afford."...

Teh stupid. It burns!

[sarcasmo]

2. Teh? What is that?

[bloomington-lib]

11. here's a link explaining it

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teh

[OwnedByFerrets]

15. Not something this old fart will ever use.

[Trajan]

12. A stupidly intentional typo ...

Used by those who have nothing better to say ....

(faecplam)

[TommyO]

24. "Teh" tech is still wildly expensive, give it time.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

3. It's more cost effective than their Roadster at $109,000

I still can't afford this one either, but I hold out hope that there will be one such vehicle built someday that I can afford.

[DUlover2909]

17. The rich folks buy a few of them, they take their profit, and the cost comes down.

That's the idea anyway. Come on Britney and Paris, buy an electric car!

[No Elephants]

30. Not those rich folks. The rich folks who have brains and a conscience.

[Warpy]

4. Remember those early $5000 personal computers?

How about those $1800 LCD screens? Remember those $250 pocket calculators? How about those $10,000 reel to reel video playback systems?

Chances are the price will get a little more reasonable as demand increases along with manufacturing efficiency.

Everything new that comes out is first a rich man's indulgence. Eventually it will get to the rest of us in one form or another.

[sarcasmo]

5. We can only dream of the 15,000 mass produced Electric car.

[Warpy]

7. I sincerely doubt it will be under $30,000

but I've been wrong before and will be delighted to be wrong about that.

However, a $30,000 ballpark will put it into the reach of many urban drivers, who should be the target group for this car.

I use an electric scooter in the city. I use a gasoline powered car when I have to go far and/or haul much.

[DinahMoeHum]

14. And who knows? The time may come sooner than we dare think

when electric cars will average between 15K and 20K.

Obviously, there will be kinks to iron out in these first models before then.

[krkaufman]

20. How about those $15,000 flat-screen plasma TVs?

It's a process, eh.

And Tesla has competitors; they're not the only game in town.

[NV Whino]

6. Tesla is doing it right.

They are starting with the high-end sports car to finance less costly sedans and family cars. The sports car guys have the bucks to indulge their fantasies. The families don't. Most manufactures do it the other way around. They open with the ground-breaking, expensive sedans that the rich folks don't want because they're boring and the poor folk can't afford.

Sorry, this is the sedan. But compare it to the Escalade, the Mercedes, the whatever.

[slackmaster]

41. Yes, there are always wealthy people who will buy the latest and greatest

Good point.

[bbinacan]

8. What's the carbon

footprint of the Tesla?

[The River]

9. How About This '72 Datsun Conversion

billed as the worlds fastest? electric car.
I didn't see where they mentioned the cost
but it sure is fast.
Retrofits like this may lead the way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/26/worlds-fastest...

[excess_3]

10. is the Tesla roadster being delivered to customers?

any pics
(please, real pics, not cartoon pics)
of the roadster in the hands of customers?

thanks for any help.

[peoli]

13. teslamotors.com

[krkaufman]

21. One of the articles I read to day reported, IIRC, that 250 have shipped.

(ish. you'll want to check the number.)

[OwnedByFerrets]

16. This very small car company offers this vehicle while

the behemoth GM offers this

Q: What is the driving range of the Chevy Volt?
A: The car is being designed to drive at least 40 miles on pure electricity stored in the battery from overnight home charging.

wtg GM

[krkaufman]

22. Apples to Pears.

The Tesla cars are all-electric, while the GM Volt is a gas/electric Plug-In hybrid (PHEV). Each approach has its merits, and there will likely be a market for both.

(Gotta say, though; an electric car with 250-300 mile range, with a 70% rapid-recharge within 15-20 minutes would go a long way to obsoleting the internal combustion engine.)


http://priuschat.com/forums/tesla-roadster/59374-tesla-...

edit: p.s. And then what if recharging could be as fast as filling-up the gas tank?
http://features.csmonitor.com/innovation/2009/03/11/bat... /

[OwnedByFerrets]

31. I personally like the idea of interchangable battery stations...

there are issues associated with this idea, but nothing that cant be overcome.

[antimatter98]

18. Great, something else the bonus-bailout bankers can buy, but we can't. n/t

[ConcernedCanuk]

19. OK - let me ponder on this for a bit

.
.
.

FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS!

for a vehicle

I bought my old 4x4 19 years ago for $3,000 cash

average maintenance per year around $500

So cost to date is approx $13,000?

lets round it up to 15 grand and 20 years for easy calculation

that's 750 bucks a year

I know people that have payments like that for a MONTH

They lose their job, they lose their vehicle

crazy - -

just crazy

[Bette Noir]

23. That's a pretty car. I saw it's picture at

http://www.latimes.com /

Cut the price in half and I'll get in line to buy one.

[Norrin Radd]

25. I own three Tesla Roadsters.

Mind you, they came from Hot Wheels, but one can dream?

[fujiyama]

26. $50,000 is considerably less than the Roadster

Both look like really cool cars.

Tesla has the right idea. Showing that electric cars can be incredibly sexy and fast was a nice way to defeat the myth that they had to be ugly and dull.

The S also has great styling and is priced less. Can most of us afford it? I know I sure can't. The key thing here will be battery technology costs. Tesla is putting in a lot into R and D on this end and is even licensing the technology to Daimler for an electric smart car. They really want to push the technology any way they can.

[JCMach1]

27. TESLA may end up being the 'new' GM without the bad parts

[WriteDown]

33. Ludicrous....

This smells awfully like another Tesla scam.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/siry-departed-tesla-on...

[underpants]

38. That's what I say-give the Silicone Valley "kids" a shot at it

they are pretty clear

I think this would fall into to the "attracting top talent" argument we have heard for so long about the crackerjack staff on Wall Street et al

[Angleae]

40. They might end up being the new DeLorian if their financial problems persist.

[tinrobot]

28. In one generation, they halved the price.

Not bad... wonder what the third generation will cost?

They also have some pretty innovative features on the car. I think it will sell quite well to people who normally buy BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus.

[WriteDown]

35. What "one" generation?

The first one was a scam and its likely that this one will be too. Unless they got that government bailout.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10079963-54.html

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/siry-departed-tesla-on...

[ikri]

37. What Scam?

That story you've linked to (twice) is about an employee who left because Tesla were taking deposits on a car that didn't yet exist (the sedan model).

Seeing as this new story is about the very model the employee was worried about taking deposits for the whole story now seems somewhat redundant.

The previous generation is the Roadster, which is in production. It sells for $109,000.
The new generation is this Model S, expected to sell for around $49,000.

Tesla's plans are supposed to include a 3rd, cheaper model that would initially retail for c. $25,000

[WriteDown]

39. The point of the articles is that the employee who left

smelled fraud. Tesla hasn't even delivered on 10% of the orders promised. They also portrayed the companies financial situation as MUCH better than it was actually which is why they need a bailout now.

[tinrobot]

42. What does fraud smell like? Cookies?

Smelling fraud is not fraud. Until there's an actual indictment, please reserve judgment. Tesla has had a lot of employee turnover as they find their footing, and a lot of ex-employee critics as well. This guy may be one.

Telsa has certainly had a rocky start, but they've delivered a lot more than 10% of their orders - 250 out of the first 1000 so far, and the pace is picking up.

I hope they succeed - they're pushing the envelope in terms of technology, and other car companies have to be paying attention to that.

[DainBramaged]

48. "Maybe Mr Musk will offer trips to Mars to Tesla depositors?"

One of the comments to the article you linked too. Pie in the sky, and the 'believers' here will attach your testicles to a battery post before they believe the truth.

[NashVegas]

58. And It's Still More Expensive Than a House, in Some Cities

[DainBramaged]

29. America will not buy a car from a 'kit car maker' that can't be serviced

by the local dealer or by anyone in Anytown USA. If it doesn't say GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, et al, it ain't flying except as a curio. No point in getting excited. Oh, and you can buy TWO Prius' for that price. Cars with PROVEN technology, and have a VERY wide dealer network.


Tesla, like the band by the same name, here today, gone today.

[Nihil]

32. Suffering from a bout of cognitive dissonance?

> Oh, and you can buy TWO Prius' for that price. Cars with PROVEN technology,
> and have a VERY wide dealer network.

That's a real turnaround from your usual approach to the Prius and, what's
more, you appear to be suggesting them above a US-made vehicle (the Tesla)?!

[DainBramaged]

36. I guess logic fails you too.

[tinrobot]

43. You could have said the same thing about Ford 100 years ago.

Ford had to build their dealer network and train service people. They did it, and so will Tesla.

As Tesla sells more cars, their networks will grow, prices will drop, and they'll become a lot more mainstream. If you're so concerned about service, then don't buy one. There are plenty of people willing to buy one and take some risk to get a car that doesn't require giving money to Saudi oil sheiks every time they fill up.

[DainBramaged]

44. How long should people wait?

They will only be toys for the rich and eventually, be stomped out of existance by the Big Six.

[tinrobot]

49. Perhaps, but when technology changes, opportunities arise.

When technology changes this drastically, there's plenty of room for smaller companies to take over markets. At the dawn of the PC age, the 'Big Six' of the computer business were mainframe companies (IBM, DEC, etc...) Over the course of a decade or two, all but IBM went belly up as the upstart PC & Workstation companies took their place.

Regardless, if Tesla was in really bad shape, they would probably get bought up rather than stomped out. They're already providing batteries to Daimler, so they're building relationships. They're also building a pretty strong brand, and that's worth something.

[DainBramaged]

50. (sigh) keep dreaming. America needs a solution in a couple of years

not in a decade, and from what I am reading about Tesla, I have a feeling they won't be around by the end of the year. Then you can hitch your wagon to the next infomercial.

[tinrobot]

61. So... GM is in better shape?

Their CEO is about to resign and the company may declare bankruptcy.

Yes, we do need a solution in a couple of years. Seems to me that Tesla is the only company in the US that is already shipping highway-capable electric cars. Actually shipping cars is a big part of that solution.

Unlike you, I'm rooting for Tesla. I'm also rooting for GM to get the Volt done and Ford to ship their EV Focus. I want lots and lots of EV cars from a lot of companies. Competition is the only way to get prices down and cars into the hands of normal people.

[Hugin]

34. Again?

Eh, it's all made elsewhere.

Don't need yet another foreign car.

[liberal1973]

45. Looking forward to this.

[Lorien]

46. That's kind of like saying "no one wants to make a Jaguar that

the average person can afford". The Tesla is a high performance vehicle and is priced as such. The plugable prius will come out soon with a price tag of around 22k, and the Aptera www.aptera.com starts at 27k.

[bamacrat]

47. GMs EV1 was completely electric and had a 300 mile range in 1998.

But we all know what happened with that.

[sarcasmo]

51. Do you or anyone else remember what the EV1 cost at the time?

[Angleae]

52. Lease payments were between $33,995 and $43,995

according to wikipedia. No residual value was ever assessed making purchase price impossible to calculate. GM says they cost the company $80,000 each.

[rd_kent]

54. Yeah, it was a half-assed attempt

that they marketed to FAIL. You couldn't purchase one, only lease it. Any repairs were outrageously overpriced and support was virtually non existent. I feel that the EV1 was nothing but a promotional stunt, for the oil companies, to show that electric would not work.
Ok, you can put your tinfoil hats on now.

[Kolesar]

63. Take a chill pill...eom

[rd_kent]

64. For what?

And really? thats all you had to add to this discussion? I think the saying about taking a flying leap at a rolling donut is applicable here. Good day unless you have something constructive to add.

[tinrobot]

62. The first generation had a 95 mile range.

Second generation had a 160 mile range.

[lithiumbomb]

53. don't get your hopes up

The Tesla Roadster is great and all, but it doesn't come without some _serious_ help from Lotus who did a lot of the chassis engineering and manufactures most of the car. Further, they used an existing Lotus model as a starting point.

If this sedan is completely in-house, it will require a few hundred million at a minimum to fully engineer the car. Tesla doesn't have any money. So unless someone wants to fork out 9 figures to Tesla this car isn't going to happen by 2011 nor for 50 grand. Even if Tesla outsources most of the development to other people... this is still going to be a 9 figure car to develop and bring to market. A bare bones sports car based on an existing sports car was easy compared to this.

This is a ploy to get some investment into the company to keep them from going under. I'm sure they want to bring this car to market but it's going to be a while and it will be significantly more expensive, if they don't go out of business first.

[applegrove]

55. The problem is with how long the battery can last. That is what is blocking

development of electric cars. Hopefully this is a step forward.

[and-justice-for-all]

56. Its a slap in our face...nt

[rollingrock]

57. That's why GM needs another massive taxpayer bailout

so they can stay in business by buying up their start-up competitors and keeping them out of the marketplace. 'Monopoly' and 'too big to fail' is the American way.

[PAStudent]

59. Who Could Afford The First Model-T

A big step in the right direction! What did the the first car cost and how much of the average salary did that represent?

[flvegan]

60. If I had $50k to spend on a sedan, I'd buy one.

Rather it than the equivalent BMW, Mercedes, Jag or Cadillac.

[Vext]

65. Things about Tesla Motors

that I believe to be true. And some opinions.

They have shipped over 150 Roadsters. I don't think they are making a profit on each car though.
Those batteries are still expensive.

My friend ordered one and then decided he couldn't afford it. He got his Roadster deposit back with little hassle within a few days.

Operating cost for energy is less than 3 cents a mile.

It is really sweet to drive. Yes, I've driven one.

Now for opinions (based on knowing someone who works there)

Elon's management style and ethics leaves something to be desired. He's paranoid of information leaks so emails and maybe phone lines are monitored. I don't think it is a happy place to work. He also cheated on his wife and left her for a newer model after having 6 kids with her.

Getting one Model S running is very different from manufacturing thousands of cars. It took a couple years to go from one working prototype Roadster to first customer delivery.

I'd buy a Model S. The Roadster was too small for my needs although it would be fine for commuting. I would trade speed for price and more seats and I might even put down a deposit if it was less than $10K.