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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:49 PM
Original message
Obama will use spring summit to bring Cuba in from the cold
Source: The Observer

President Barack Obama is poised to offer an olive branch to Cuba in an effort to repair the US's tattered reputation in Latin America.

The White House has moved to ease some travel and trade restrictions as a cautious first step towards better ties with Havana, raising hopes of an eventual lifting of the four-decade-old economic embargo. Several Bush-era controls are expected to be relaxed in the run-up to next month's Summit of the Americas in Trinidad and Tobago to gild the president's regional debut and signal a new era of "Yankee" cooperation.

The administration has moved to ease draconian travel controls and lift limits on cash remittances that Cuban-Americans can send to the island, a lifeline for hundreds of thousands of families.

"The effect on ordinary Cubans will be fairly significant. It will improve things and be very welcome," said a western diplomat in Havana. The changes would reverse hardline Bush policies but not fundamentally alter relations between the superpower and the island, he added. "It just takes us back to the 1990s."



Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/08/cuba-obama-...
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. There has never been any good reason for an embargo.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 08:54 PM by Rabrrrrrr
Yeah, Fidel's an evil, narcissistic, dictator tyrant shitpot of a human being, but that's no reason to not allow travel and the back and forth of goods.

Hell, we trade with China and Saudi Arabia and all those central American countries that seem to spring up a new, corrupt, military junta every few years.

Why not Cuba?

In the realm of evil despot-led countries, at least the people in Cuba have healthcare, education, and a safe place to live.

And the cigars!! For the sake of humanity, people, the cigars!!
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andyrowe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not quite true.
I'm all about lifting the idiotic embargo, but Cuba letting the Russians set up live nuclear (not nucular!) launch sites almost within sight of our shores sort of set the tone for our relationship with them for many decades.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Well, yeah, that was kind of dumb. But if we hadn't had the embargo,
would they have done that?

I don't think they would have.

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Hulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Right...and the chimp wanted to do the very same to Russia last year...
...by setting up missile sites along the Polish border. I know he had some bull shit smoke screen excuse that we could protect ourselves or somebody from Iran....but please.

Granted...I don't want any nukes pointed our way from 80 miles off shore, but I really don't feel all the great knowing there are others pointed our way from further out either.

Enough is enough. Kruschev is long dead and gone. Those days of the cold war are history. Thanks to the chimp, we almost started the whole episode all over again.

Take down the embargo. The good people of Cuba have suffered enough for one mistake.....45 years is enough!
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. Seconded!
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. It is not
"nucular" ... it is "newkyular" damnit!
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Yeah and that had nothing to do with our attempt to overthow their government..
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 12:24 AM by whoneedstickets
..in the failed Bay of Pigs invasion? Evidence suggest that Castro wasn't immediately hostile to the US if the latter had been willing to accept social democracy in Cuba (as it had in Europe), but Ike would have none of it and snubbed Fidel. The turn to the Russians didn't happen until Castro was convinced the US was planning to assassinate, overthrow or invade.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Why are some staggering fools unable to realize that missile crisis came AFTER the invasion of Cuba
by forces from the U.S., and that, as a condition of the withdrawal of the missiles Russia put in there was an agreement by the U.S. to NEVER invade Cuba again?

How hard should that be to remember?
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. It's like the Bay of Pigs never happened
For some reason people just don't connect the two events in their mind.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Chicken and egg. It's hard to say who started the hostilities.
But it's time to end them.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. A tiny island which could be vaporized in the blink of an eye, or an ENORMOUS
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 12:42 AM by Judi Lynn
country with a ferocious war history? Hmmmm. That's a puzzler.

Cuba spends less in ONE YEAR on defense than this country spends in 12 hours.

On edit:

No invasions, no plans for invasions, no acquisition of US land, no history of wars against this country going back to the 1800's, too bad we can't say the same regarding Cuba.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
64. While what you say is true, it speaks to the reason the Cubans went along with Krushchev's deal
with the missiles pointed right at us 90 miles from Florida.

A couple of years ago I read the definitive book on the missile crisis andit was one helluva ride, let me tellyou, and I LIVED through the crisis. What I took away from the book was how much JFK sought counsel from experts in a wide variety of professions, from military to diplomatic to historians to economists etc. It was fascinating to see how much he wanted to hear all points of view. Bobby was his coordinator. It was an extraordinary effort. No film has ever caught the drama that that book did. It was titled "The Missile Crisis" and it was by Elie Abel, published around 1966. It's not long. If you can find it, read it!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. Not exactly. Our government punished Castro for not handing over Cuba
in exchange for their support. He came here and asked for help and they held him up instead. That's how this whole thing started.



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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. We did the same damn thing in Turkey before the Soviets setup missiles in Cuba
How come Turkish-Soviet relations never had the problems that Cuban-American did?
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
65. By the time of the Cuban missile crisis, the Turkish missiles were obsolete.
JFK had wanted to get rid of them but once the Cuban crisis began he felt it would be viewed as the US being "soft." They were taken down as part of the ultimate agreement between the US and Kruschev on Cuba.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. Right after the Bay of Pigs
A US invasion of Cuba - brought to you by Corporate America and the mob.
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Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. CIA and Cuba
Cuban CIA Rodriguez of Iran-Contra & Bay of Pigs is BushSR's buddy ...Cuban CIA Rodriguez of Iran-Contra & Bay of Pigs is BushSR's buddy. ... Officially, Rodriguez didn't join the CIA until 1967, after the CIA invasion of Cuba ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=vi... - Similar pages


Democratic Underground - Rafael del Pino was CIA, former head of ...Apr 6, 2008 ... Rafael del Pino was CIA, former head of Cuba's Air Force. ... Cuba has had to live with 50 years of terrorism, bombings, kidnappings, ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=sh... - Similar pages



Ex-CIA Agent Philip Agee Dead in Cuba - Democratic UndergroundHAVANA (AP) Philip Agee, a former CIA agent who became an outspoken critic of Washington's Cuba policy, has died in a Havana hospital following ulcer ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=vi... - Similar pages

Democratic Underground - Nixon, Mobsters, the CIA, Cuba and ...Nixon, Hunt, and many CIA and Cuban exile leaders pinned almost complete blame for the military catastrophe on Kennedy for not providing adequate air cover. ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=sh... - Similar pages
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espiral Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. re: Rabrrrrrr
"Fidel's an evil, narcissistic, dictator tyrant shitpot of a human being"

Apparently, the US propaganda has gotten to you, too. Sad to see such hatred for a good man at a place like this. After everything he has achieved for his people, after a lifetime of struggle, the US still won't give him one ounce of faith or mercy, not even the US left. Disgraceful.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Most Americans have no idea how evil Bautista was.
Memories are short.


Welcome to DU! :hi:
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espiral Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. re: Critters2
Thanks! Nice to meet you :D
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. Batista is irrelevant - replacing evil with evil lite, while an improvement,
does not exonerate the evil lite and make it moral perfection.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. your model assumes all men shall become angels in a revolution
George Washington was "evil lite" in the eyes of the King George. But for all the good of the 1776 US revolution, it never liberated the African-American slaves or women in general, it only liberated the narrow segment of the male upperclass landowners of the 13 colonies.

Revolutions don't happen so that men can become angels.

However, in defense of Cuba, I would say that the firing squads immediately after the 1959 Cuban Revolution were no different that what was done to the Nazis who were guilty of war crimes after 1945. They received a similar kind of punishment that was appropriate for their willing complicity in the deaths of many innocent Cuban civilians under the Batista regime.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. My model assumes nothing about replacements. I merely point out the truth.
The next leader after a revolution is neither ipso facto good or ipso facto evil.

The next leader is to be judged on the merits of that person.

Fidel created a tyranny of one-man leadership and one-party rule, in which people are/were not allowed to dissent, were not allowed freedom of dissenting views and political self-determination, and not allowed freedom of movement not only beyond their border, but within. In my eyes, even if dictatorial oppression comes with health care and education, it's still evil.

People have a right to fundamental human freedoms.

Castro denies those rights.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I'd say the Cuban people have already done the judging for you
and they have developed a robust democratic system second to none in Latin America, or anywhere else in the world.

I encourage you to read (or re-read) Arnold August's important work, "Democracy in Cuba". I can also supply links for RealAudio interview of same.

To be sure, Fidel Castro deserves a lot of the credit for making the initial steps toward the Cuban Revolution, but without the mass support of the majority of the Cuban people, he would have not seen their Revolution go as far as it has today.

Socialism has not been perfected in Cuba, but the future looks bright indeed!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Don't indulge in disinformation. Cubans used to come and go to the U.S. themselves,
visiting relatives, going on trips around the country, and people in South Florida were very aware of this. I heard it from Floridians posting on message boards as far back as 2000, and it's a well known fact there, since it has happened frequently. I've even read in papers, accounts of their (Florida hosts) visitors going as far as New York on their trips.

One old gusana hag, Marianao, (her vile personality, not my ageism, or sexism) who still holds forth on the Miami Herald message boards, if she hasn't yet been decent enough to die, wrote on yet another message board in a discussion with a younger Cuban American about the fact her sister, visiting from Cuba, had just returned, yet the two of them clawed and spit at ordinary Americans over their beef with Cuba on a daily basis.

As for movement, this was written by former New York Times, Ann Louise Bardach, written before George W. Bush nailed the door shut completely on travel to Cuba, but it does describe movement between Cuba and the U.S. very adequately:
In Cuba, one used to be either a revolucionario or a contrarevolucionario, while those who decided to leave were gusanos (worms) or escoria (scum). In Miami, the rhetoric has also been harsh. Exiles who do not endorse a confrontational policy with Cuba, seeking instead a negotiated settlement, have often been excoriated as traidores (traitors) and sometimes espas (spies). Cubans, notably cultural stars, who visit Miami but choose to return to their homeland have been routinely denounced. One either defects or is repudiated.

But there has been a slow but steady shift in the last decade-a nod to the clear majority of Cubans en exilio and on the island who crave family reunification. Since 1978, more than one million airline tickets have been sold for flights from Miami to Havana. Faced with the brisk and continuous traffic between Miami and Havana, hard-liners on both sides have opted to deny the new reality. Anomalies such as the phenomenon of reverse balseros, Cubans who, unable to adapt to the pressures and bustle of entrepreneurial Miami, return to the island, or gusaeros, expatriots who send a portion of their earnings home in exchange for unfettered travel back and forth to Cuba (the term is a curious Cuban hybrid of gusano and compaero, or comrade), are unacknowledged by both sides, as are those who live in semi-exilio, returning home to Cuba for long holidays.


Page XVIII
Preface
Cuba Confidential
Love and Vengeance
In Miami and Havana

Copyright 2002 by
Ann Louise Bardach
I would trust her findings, since she went back and forth to Cuba time after time during the process of writing this book, and other assignments.
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espiral Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. re: Rabrrrrrr
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 05:36 PM by espiral
What sort of tyranny do you call living in a state with one of the finest medical and educational systems, even despite the crushing effects of the embargo? Even wealthy Argentina was inspired by the educational reforms of the Revolution. Everyone is assigned a rigorously-trained doctor who makes rounds to every household. Nobody is left out; and if someone wants to leave, they are typically not detained. And yet the exiles complain endlessly that "el tirano" would not let them take their wealth with them when they deserted. Unbelievable.

You speak of "liberty" as if US-style constitutional democracy is some sort of unassailable gospel, an automatic correct prescription for every country. Could it be that that corrupted system, with its outdated articles of government and its endless two-party gridlock nonsense, just might not be the answer for another nation?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Perhaps a cage is to your liking.
I, however, no matter how beautifully gilded and no matter how wonderful the staff, prefer not to live in a cage.

And I speak of liberty the way the UN speaks of liberty - that people have an inherent right to movement within their own state and outside their state.

I also believe that people have the right to choose their political leaders. That choice has not been offered the Cuban people in generations.

I admitted up above that Cuba has great healthcare, and good education. If that's all you want from a government, and don't care about freedom of movement, self-determination, representational government, or the right to assemble, petition the government, and even have a chance of being part of that government, that's fine. Go live in that kind of place.

I guess I just like a hell of a lot of broader standard of freedom than you are willing to settle for.

I'm not the type to slide willingly into the "beneficent tyrant" form of 'leadership'. Give me polis, and give me a government and a society in which I have choices, and don't have some Big Daddy type making decisions for me to help "alleviate the chaos of wondering what I should do".

But I suppose I'm just a hopeless idealistic romantic born of the enlightenment. Forgive me being so fucking dumb that I think all people are created equal, have an inherent right to self-determination, and have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

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espiral Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. re: Rabrrrrrr
As far as I am concerned, I would take the cage, if it were
kept clean by a good birdkeeper who always made sure that I
had plenty of seeds and checkups by the veterinarian.

Cubans do have the right to move about the island or travel;
they are not confining anyone, or harming them for leaving.
The exiles chose to desert their homes; that was the decision
they made. It was the USA that sent back some of the Mariel
immigrants, and the USA who forbids travel between the two
places.

Your definition of liberty as synonymous with individualism
is not something I find palatable. But, no matter, I do not
mean to insult your beliefs; I merely do not support them.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. It's great reading your cooments, espiral. It clearly sounds as if you're aware of life in Cuba.
Welcome to D.U. :hi:
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espiral Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. re: Judi Lynn
Thank you! Your kind words are an honor. :)
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #43
62. "give me a government and a society in which I have choices"
I'm surprised you can tolerate the US. But maybe you don't want to use marijuana, care how many of your tax dollars are spent killing people the world over, care about sex and race discrimination in both private and public enterprise, or the many other ways we are "free".

Show me the perfect country or political system, the US may be "better" than Cuba in many respects but in some it may be much worse. A couple things I think I have right, we should not interfere with Cuba as long as they are peaceful and the embargo is unfair to Americans.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. These same experts never acknowledge Batista and his death squads tortured
and ultimately KILLED 20,000 Cubans, even bombing them from airplanes during the revolution.

Here's an article written by New York Times reporter, Herbert Matthews, on what happened at Santiago de Cuba, surrounding one occassion of the murder of several Cuban young men. When the state crime was discovered, the mothers in the city marched down through the center of town to beg intervention from the U.S. ambassador, to ask him to speak with their US-supported bloody puppet dictator, Fulgencio Batista, and persuade him to back away from his radical violence against Cubans:
New York Times
June 10, 1957.pp. 1, 10.

Populace in Revolt in Santiago de Cuba
By Herbert L. Matthews

Special to The New York Times

SANTIAGO DE CUBA, June 9 This is a city in open revolt against President Fulgencio Batista.No other description could fit the fact that virtually every man, woman, and child in Santiago de Cuba, except police and army authorities, are struggling at all costs to themselves to overthrow the military dictatorship in Havana.

What applies to Santiago de Cuba can be applied with much the same terms to the whole province of Oriente, at least the eastern end of the island.It is the most heavily populated and fertile region of Cuba, and is traditionally the home of the struggle for Cuban liberty.If Havana had anything like the civic resistance movement of Santiago de Cuba, the Batista regime might have ended a long time ago.

It is one of the most extraordinary atmospheres ever encountered by this correspondent in many countries and during many periods of stress and war.The tension is almost palpable and is certainly very dangerous for the regime.Santiago de Cuba is a city living in a state of fear and exaltation, and it is the exaltation that dominates.

The fear is injected by what leading citizens of the city recently branded as a reign of terror imposed by the tough chief of police, Lieut. Col. Jos Maria Salas Caizares, whom General Batista sent here two weeks ago to try to crush the rebellious spirit of the citizens.

For many months there have been waves of violence and of counter-terrorism by the authorities, but the last two weeks this correspondent was assured, have been the worst.The police chief, according to reliable witnesses, began his lesson to the inhabitants by having his men drive around the city to beat men and women haphazardly.In this way, Colonel Salas Caizares let it be known that the people had better stay home in the evenings.

They are doing so, as far as could be seen, for Santiago de Cuba is almost a dead city after 9 or 10 oclock at night, whereas it is normally gay and thronged with men and women at this hot time of the year.

Four Youths Slain
The worst act of terror, which the Santiagueros universally attribute to the police, occurred the night of May 27.The morning after, the bodies of four youths were found hanging from trees, two on one side of the city and two on an other.They had been tortured, stabbed and shot before they were strung up.

This caused such a sense of horror and revulsion that a large group of women of the city prepared last Sunday for a demonstration of protest, gathering first for a mass in the cathedral.A number of policemen, armed with submachine guns, were sent into the church to walk around and intimidate the women.The maneuver failed, but when the women tried to form a parade, it was roughly broken up, witnesses said.

Two mothers of the slain youths arranged to see this correspondent secretly late one night, along with some parents and relatives of other youths slain, as the relatives believe, by the police.At the last minute the relatives sent word that the police had threatened them with dire consequences if they talked too much.

However, many other persons have come forth, either openly or secretly, to tell of incidents.The risk was considerable for all such persons, for the police had been trying to keep the closest watch on this correspondent from the moment of his arrival three days ago.
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuban-rebels/NYT-6-...









The mothers, as they run up to speak to the U.S. ambassador



The mothers as the police turn fire hoses on them
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Thanks for the info. Many of the atrocities attributed to the Revolution were actually..
Many of the atrocities attributed to the Revolution and the revolutionaries were actually Batista's goons murdering people and then framing the revolutionaries.

When asked, many of the Castrophobic Cuban exiles who left Cuba at a young age can't really remember the time frame of the firing squads, but when pressed hard it seems that much of the firing squad/death squad activities perpetrated by Batisano dead enders and Batista's blood soaked henchmen are falsely attributed to Castro and Che - much of that activity was in 1957,58, & 59.

The elders in Cuba remember this well. That's why they supported, and still support the Revolution that kicked the US blood thirsty oligarchy out.

:hi:


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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. Now that's very interesting. I recall hearing of their torture of their prisoners in the
fortress in Havana, connected to the anti-communist operation B.R.A.C. U.S. former CIA agent Phillip Agee has indicated the CIA was very heavily entrenched in Cuba, working with Batista well before the revolution, and they were in and out of that white building where the torture was conducted, having helped Batista set it all up.

Here's something I just saw which the Miami Herald published regarding a Batista creep a few years ago:
Faget's father was a brutal Batista official
February 19, 2000 - Miami Herald - Don Bohning

The arrest of immigration official Mariano Faget recalls another controversial period of the Cold War: the final years of Fulgencio Batista's regime in Cuba when the Bureau for the Repression of Communist Activities gained a reputation for brutality in its fight against pro-Castro rebels.

The bureau, known as BRAC, was headed by Faget's father, also Mariano. The elder Faget had first gained fame as a Nazi hunter during Batista's first turn at power, 1940 to 1944, when he was chief of Cuba's Office of Investigation of Enemy Activities (OIEA), a counter-espionage unit that targeted Nazi and Fascist agents.

When Batista returned to power in 1952, Faget was promoted to colonel. He was placed in charge of the BRAC when it was created in 1954. After Fidel Castro took power in 1959, Bohemia magazine published the identities -- obtained from the bureau's files -- of CIA agents working in Havana.

British author Hugh Thomas, in his exhaustive book Cuba Or the Pursuit of Freedom, writes that U.S. Ambassador Arthur Gardner regarded himself as "the father of the BRAC." Thomas also says that Allen Dulles, CIA chief at the time, told him that in its later stages "most of the money" meant for BRAC "never reached the proper destination."

Jay Mallin, an American journalist working in Cuba at the time, Friday described the BRAC essentially as window-dressing for the Americans and "Batista's effort to show that he was anti-Communist."

FBI CONGRATULATIONS

The late FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover was impressed enough with Faget's work to send his congratulations for his investigation of communist activities.

But the elder Faget's most notable achievement came earlier, during his Nazi hunting days of the 1940s when he was credited with tracking down Heinz August Luning, a German spy in Havana reporting on ship movements. His reports were blamed for the sinking of several U.S. and Cuban ships by German submarines. Luning was arrested and executed by firing squad.

The BRAC was apparently less successful and more controversial.

Marcelo Fernandez, a Cuban-born political analyst, educator and historian living in Washington, D.C., said Friday that Faget had had to flee Cuba ahead of Castro's troops on Jan. 1, 1959.

"He (Faget) was one of the first to leave Cuba," said Fernandez. "He knew that he was a marked man."

His successor at BRAC, a Lt. Castano, was captured and executed, said Fernandez, who said he saw Faget in 1961 at Opa-locka airport, then being utilized by U.S. agencies questioning arriving Cuban refugees. He said Faget was working for the INS.
http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2000/021900b.htm

Apparently they are willing to discuss some aspects of the brutality in Miami, among themselves, but not that hot to admit any of it to the rest of the country, right? It reflects poorly on the society which controlled the people of Cuba back then, and the ones who immediately fled from the new government with the fear of retribution lapping at their heels.

~~~~~~~~~~

Just found an interesting observation by Philip Agee:
egime Response

Back to Regime Response
Terrorism and Civil Society as Instruments of U.S. Policy in Cuba

~snip~
Warren Hinkle and William Turner, in The Fish is Red, easily the best book on the CIAs war against Cuba during the first 20 years of the revolution, tell the story of the CIAs efforts to save the life of one of their Batista Cubans. It was March 1959, less than three months after the revolutionary movement triumphed. The Deputy Chief of the CIAs main Batista secret police force had been captured, tried and condemned to a firing squad. The Agency had set up the unit in 1956 and called it the Bureau for the Repression of Communist Activities or BRAC for its initials in Spanish. With CIA training, equipment and money it became arguably the worst of Batistas torture and murder organizations, spreading its terror across the whole of the political opposition, not just the communists.

The Deputy Chief of BRAC, one Jos Castao Quevedo, had been trained in the United States and was the BRAC liaison man with the CIA Station in the U.S. Embassy. On learning of his sentence, the Agency Chief of Station sent a journalist collaborator named Andrew St. George to Che Guevara, then in charge of the revolutionary tribunals, to plead for Castaos life. After hearing out St. George for much of a day, Che told him to tell the CIA chief that Castao was going to die, if not because he was an executioner of Batista, then because he was an agent of the CIA. St. George headed from Ches headquarters in the Cabaa fortress to the seaside U.S. Embassy on the Malecn to deliver the message. On hearing Ches words the CIA Chief responded solemnly, "This is a declaration of war." Indeed, the CIA lost many more of its Cuban agents during those early days and in the unconventional war years that followed.

Today when I drive on 31st Avenue on the way to the airport, just before turning left at the Marianao military hospital, I pass on the left a large, multi-story white police station that occupies an entire city block. The style looks like 1920s fake castle, resulting in a kind of giant White Castle hamburger joint. High walls surround the building on the side streets, and on top of the walls at the corners are guard posts, now unoccupied, like those overlooking workout yards in prisons. Next door, separated from the castle by 110th street, is a fairly large two-story green house with barred windows and other security protection. I dont know its use today, but before it was the dreaded BRAC Headquarters, one of the CIAs more infamous legacies in Cuba.

The same month as the BRAC Deputy was executed, on March 10, 1959, President Eisenhower presided over a meeting of his National Security Council at which they discussed how to replace the government in Cuba. It was the beginning of a continuous policy of regime change that every administration since Eisenhower has continued.

As I read of the arrests of the 75 dissidents, 44 years to the month after the BRAC Deputys execution, and saw the U.S. governments outrage over their trials and sentences, one phrase from Washington came to mind that united American reactions in 1959 with events in 2003: "Hey! Those are OUR GUYS the bastards are screwing!"
http://www.ruleoflawandcuba.fsu.edu/regime-9.cfm
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. LIFT THE EMBARGO!
it's time, mr. president!
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cruise lines are salivating over this.
This is what has fueled the incredible roll out of new ships.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. I wouldn't be too sure of that
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 09:37 AM by ngant17
For example, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd, the world's second largest cruise line, had to pay a multi-million dollar fine for dumping oily bilge waste into the ocean and lying about it about 20 years ago. And this was a verdict from a US court. It was one the largest pollution fines ever assessed against a cruise company, for dumping oil into Caribbean and Atlantic waters.

Cuba is very sensitive to environmental protection in its waters, it is written into its constitution, and I would seriously doubt it if Royal Caribbean would ever be allowed near Cuba without some serious cost-prohibiting expenses and "taxes" levied by the Cuban government.

Also I don't think Cuba will appreciate being a party to the exploitation of 3rd world labor which routinely happens in the cruise ship industry.

The US-based cruise ship industry will have to make some major ($$$) restructuring of its capitalist business model before they can ever be allowed into Cuba waters.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
56. Actually the cruise industry lobbies hard against lifting the sanctions on Cuba.
Why would one waste time on a schlep thru Miami to get to a stinkin' cruise ship (and risk the Norwalk virus) just to go to Cuba when a direct flight will get one to a tropical paradise climate in less time than it takes to fight the traffic from MIA to the ship terminals.

Most all of the other Caribbean island tourism boards and US based tourism industries lobby hard against lifting the US's Cuba travel sanctions - they know that Cuba would be of such interest for decades of US Caribbean vacation seekers that it would mean a downturn in their businesses.


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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. But, Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D?-FL) and her Miami Republican pals don't approve.
In fact, this little clique are actively fighting Obama on it.


Debbie Wasserman Schultz and buddy Lincoln Diaz-Balart oppose lifting travel ban to Cuba.

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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. The US govt needs to stop catering to the Cuban exiles.
And they need to accept the fact that the wealth they accumulated under Bautista and lost in the revolution is gone.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. The older generation were going to their reward and Miami
was getting more purple until new wingers from Venezuela started landing there. Maybe from other Latin American countries, too, that have been democratizing while the Pentagon was busy in the Middle East. Miami is again as virulent as it was forty years ago.
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Eryemil Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. These fossils are dropping life flies
Most Cubans and Cubans Americans these days support the end of the embargo as well as closer ties with the island.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Right. But new wingers have come in from Venezuela
and likely, from Ecuador and Bolivia, too. Next, they'll come from El Salvador because democracy is on the rise there. I feel for our DU Miami progressives that the most retrograde ideologues from Latin America seem to gravitate there. :(
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Eryemil Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Well, I don't live there anymore so I only know what my mother tells me
But I doubt these people will care much about the Cuba situation. At least as much as the exiles do.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. The oligarchs that came from Venezuela are every bit as virulent.
And, for example, I notice the Miami Herald is pimping them just as they used to pimp the right wing exiles.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. They are as thick as thieves now. Their great bonding seemed to start early in Bush's reign.
Here's a photo taken of Carlos Fernandez, President of Venezuela's Chamber of Commerce, and Carlos Ortega, union boss who was receiving N.E.D. funds, the two men most active in the enormous oil workers lockout (a strike AGAINST the workers, keeping them from earning their incomes) which brought the oil industry to a screeching halt, and nearly wrecked the economy briefly, as the Miami Cubans threw an anti-Chavez parade on the very same Saturday the entire rest of the world was in the streets protesting the upcoming invasion it appeared Bush was going to inflict on the people of Iraq. It was March, 2004, I think.

Both these men fled from Venezuela after they screwed the economy so badly (does this remind you of Richard M. Nixon's remarks to his CIA guy, Richard Helms who noted it for posterity, that he wanted to "make the economy scream" in Chile in order to destabilize the Presidency of Salvador Allende?) and they found asylum elsewhere. Ortega fled to Costa Rica. Fernandez simply went on the run for a while, don't remember where he lives now.

It really shows you how totally out of step with the human race right-wing South Florida is, doesn't it?



Former opposition leaders Carlos Fernandez, at center with raised
thumb, and Carlos Ortega, in a white Venezuela T-shirt, move to
the front of the protest march as it heads east on Calle Ocho, Miami.
The two men helped lead a national strike in their homeland.
South Florida Sun-Sentinel

You may remember seeing this photo of the Fedecamaras President, Carlos Fernandez, as he flew to the front of the room to fling his big manly arms around the violently installed coup President for one day, Pedro Carmona!



The Miami Herald
Tue, Apr. 05, 2005

Wanted Chvez foes flee to South Florida

South Florida is quietly emerging as a sanctuary for foes of Venezuelan President Hugo Chvez. U.S. officials said their presence hasn't become a policy issue -- yet.

BY GERARDO REYES AND ALFONSO CHARDY

Johan Pea and Pedro Lander, former Venezuelan security officers, arrived in Miami in early December, only days after investigators in Caracas accused them of killing a prominent federal prosecutor.

Carlos Fernndez, former leader of a key Venezuelan opposition business group, arrived in 2003 -- soon after fleeing house arrest, punishment for his role in efforts to overthrow elected President Hugo Chvez.

Daniel Romero, a Caracas lawyer who publicly read a decree suspending the National Assembly and other democratic institutions during a brief 2002 coup, also fled to Miami and asked for asylum.

Immigration court figures show a steady increase in the number of asylum requests by Venezuelans -- from 47 in 2000 to 659 in 2003. Some of the recent arrivals are either wanted for crimes in Venezuela or under investigation for allegedly trying to undermine the Chvez government. Some insist that they face persecution back home in retaliation for their peaceful opposition to Chvez.

~snip~
Fernndez, former leader of Venezuela's largest business organization, Fedecamaras, arrived in April 2003. He has applied for asylum and recently earned his real estate license in South Florida.

More:
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/venezuela/flee.htm
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Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. Caribbean Finance Center
Caribseek Trinidad and Tobago News | TTIFC Will Boost Economy ... Apr 3, 2008 ... PORT OF SPAIN - The establishment of an International Financial Centre (TTIFC) in Port of Spain will boost economic activity and increase ...
news.caribseek.com/Trinidad_and_Tobago/article_63978.shtml - 50k - Cached - Similar pages


Reserve-Bank.com - Banking Forum :: View topic - Trinidad Tobago ... 1 post - 1 author - Last post: Apr 30, 2008
Nunez-Tesheria said the benefits of establishing the TTIFC could be ... "We envisage that the TTIFC will be a designated hub that will ...
forum.reserve-bank.com/viewtopic.php?p=647&sid=a66cb08ee2f75906990eddb2684fcbc1 - 28k - Cached - Similar pages
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. In the meantime, disobey.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
20. This is good a start
getting rid of travel restirction is a good olive branch, but we should demand human rights reforms before completely lifting the embargo.
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rollingrock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. The embargo itself is a human rights abuse


and has been repeatedly condemned by the the UN and international community
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blackbart99 Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
26. Its time to bring them in from the cold......war.
The cold war has been over for a long time now. The olive branch should be extended
to all countries everywhere. In these uncertain times we need all the good will
we can get. By extending the hand of friendship we will have the good will of most of the
world. Not to mention it is setting a great example for other world leaders to follow.
Imagine......does pay it forward mean anything to you???
:think: :hug:
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
29. Let's all start planning our next vacations--to Cuba!
I've been wanting to go on a bicycle tour of the island that the Canadian company www.gap.ca organizes, but it was so awkward to get to the island by flying to another island nation first. If they truly lift this embargo I can finally enjoy a vacation there without spending so much money on airfare.
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Theory5 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. finally
FINALLY. Jeez you would think we would fix our mistakes much faster.
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Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. Con muchas gracias
I really appreciate this thread.I have always been flummoxed as to the origins of animosity between Cuba and U.S.

The Bay of Pigs and Cuban missile crisis were a bit before my time.

It seemed incongruous to me that Castro was portrayed as pure evil-so were other dictators around the world who had at one time been allies of US.
Saddam Hussein comes to mind.

If being Communist was the reason,well duh,what's the rationale for being in hock to China? Is their Communism more acceptable?

What I find particularly interesting is the public's indifference to giving back the Panama Canal.That certainly provides a handy little conduit for warships and advancing armies of hostile nations-not to mention drug trade and arms smuggling.
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Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Cold War is "Hot" again?
Russian navy ship to cross Panama Canal
By Vladimir Isachenkov - The Associated Press
Posted : Wednesday Dec 3, 2008 16:16:57 EST

MOSCOW A Russian warship will sail through the Panama Canal this week for the first time since World War II, the navy announced Wednesday, pushing ahead with a symbolic projection of Moscows power in a traditional U.S. zone of influence.

The destroyer Admiral Chabanenko will arrive Friday at a former U.S. naval base in Panamas Pacific port of Balboa for a six-day visit after carrying out joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan navy in the Caribbean Sea, navy spokesman Capt. Igor Dygalo said in a telephone interview.

The Panama Canal has long been a symbol of U.S. clout in Latin America, and Dygalo said no Soviet or Russian military ship has sailed through it since World War II. The wartime alliance between the U.S. and the Soviet Union swiftly gave way to the mistrust, military buildups and proxy conflicts of the Cold War.

In a throwback to those times, the Russian navy statement announcing the plans referred to the base the Admiral Chabanenko will visit as Rodman naval base its name when it was a U.S. base many years ago.

Rodman was the hub for all U.S. naval activities in South America and supported fleet units transiting the 50-mile canal. But control of the facility shifted to Panama a decade ago, and it is now called the Balboa naval base.


Rest of article at: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/12/ap_russianavypana...
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
36. It's a start--maybe.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
48. democratic nonsense
You speak of "liberty" as if US-style constitutional democracy is some sort of unassailable gospel, an automatic correct prescription for every country. Could it be that that corrupted system, with its outdated articles of government and its endless two-party gridlock nonsense, just might not be the answer for another nation?


Yeah, who needs democratic gridlock all that pesky voting business when you can have mandated one party rule . And political dissent who would want that? That the US has used a double standard with Cuba compared to other countries who have similar human rights records doesn't mean we should be like you and condone oppression
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Ure Kismet Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. re democratic nonsense
Here we go another spruiker for empire who imagines the rest of the world actaully falls for the pretend democracy espoused by the amerikan empire.
The only candidates allowed to run in amerika without spending bucketloads on lawyers in each state for dispensation to get on the ballot, are those nominated by one of two parties whose range of views is narrow and largely irrelevant. eg Stem cell research or gay marriage divide the voters, matters which are far better decided at a community level, but that of course protects the major parties from having to espouse truly divergent opinions on the real issues.
Like what right amerika has to send it's military into over a hundred sovereign nations, that is how many countries which have been blackmailed, bullied, or bribed into having amerikan intelligence and or military bases, many of which store thermo nuclear devices aimed at people the citizens of the host nation have no dispute with.
Despite the new regime's pretence of stopping extra-ordinary renditions, citizens of foreign nations many of whom have never set foot in amerika, are still being abducted and transferred to secret prisons around the world without trial. That is normal run of the mill 'allowable rendition'.
The Pathan people or as amerikans prefer to call them 'pashtuns' still can't get married with traditional ceremony lest an unmanned drone piloted by some fat assed no hoper just back from the Taco Belle on Creech Air Force base in Nevada decides to loose a few missiles in the general direction of the wedding party.
Nothing has changed with the change of administration in amerika. Sure the fans, supporters of the donkeys are jubilant and the elephant lovers are sulking but that is no different to what happens at any sports match. The results of the game will have about as much influence on the numbers of humans about the world killed by amerikan bombs, guns, and missiles as the result of any other sporting contest would.
The continuation of empire is never up for debate by either party. Both democrats and republicans accept amerika's role as judge jury and executioner without question.
The secretary of defense remains unchanged so as to ensure policies continue on the ground just as they did before.
Obama's 16 month Iraq withdrawal that isn't a withdrawal since 50,000 troops will remain in Iraq after that date was changed to 19 months because one of his generals told him that it needed to be that long even for a pretend withdrawal. Otherwise amerikan troops will not be able to properly supervise the elections in Iraq and if that happened Iraqis might elect someone they wanted rather than someone amerika wants - that is someone who will invoke the section of the SOFA that allows the Iraqis to request the amerikan troops stay longer.

Surely the smart thing for amerika to do for it's own citizens in this time of economic meltdown would be to stop wasting billions on killing other humans and spend the dough on health education and housing? That isn't up for discussion in this 'democracy'. A bit of tinkering around the edges perhaps, but no substantive move away from empire. That would be treason and could get you locked up in the land that claims freedom of speech.

Meanwhile the republicans howl and pretend to oppose the democrats for giving trillions to already fat banksters, safe in the knowledge that the crowd likes that call, but equally sure they would pull a similar rip-off of taxpayers if they were in power. Citizens are still losing their homes, workers are still losing their jobs, long after the first tranche, a mere $750 billion has been devoured by the same Wall St greedies that bankrolled Obama's campaign.

After having studied both the Soviet Communist Party of the 80's and the republican and democrat parties of amerika in the noughties it is safe to say that the USSR communist party had elected members who expressed a much wider range of opinions about the big important issues than all the democrat and republican members of congress in amerika currently do.
The domocracy which amerika pretends to espouse is no different from the highly restricted options of other nations which amerika's leaders criticise for not being democratic.
I say pretend to support democracy because when citizens in other places vote for someone that amerika doesn't like the amerikan government at best ignores the result at worst tries to subvert it. See Haiti, Venezuela and the Hamas victory in the last Palestinian election. Apparently Hamas wasn't kosher because of their charter not accepting the right of Israel to exist, nothing is ever said about the Likud charter which doesn't accept the right of Palestinians to have their own state. Likud has been in government several times yet amerikan 'peace brokers' didn't see a problem with their charter.
And don't say that was shrub - Obama is different - because this adminsitration is still refusing to deal with Hamas who are the elected government even though Israel spitefully imprisoned most of the Hamas MP's. amerika under Obama claims that Abbas, a man elected president just once and whose term expired long ago, (can't have another election cause Abbas would lose for sure) who was ever only the head of state and not the government, is the whole government of Palestine.

Hypocrisy, lies, murder, and theft all reign supreme in washington no matter which party is in power. These travesties are kept in place precisely because whatever system amerika may started off with has been corrupted beyond salvation long ago.

Power politics dictates that the Cuban system of government in place for a mere 50 years will be far more responsive to the needs of it's people than the amerikan system of government is for its citizens, just because the Cuban structure is much newer and therefore less entrenched to suit the wishes of it's political elite.
The amerikan system has become far too corrupt to to anything other than serve it's masters, no matter which team they are on. Check out the farce of Karl Rove's summons to congress, for a classic example of the public role playing both parties use to hoodwink voters while they work together to steal from everyone.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Outstanding post.

Thanks for the reality check, sorely needed around here.

Welcome to DU.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Tremendous first post, Ure Kismet! Great truth-based comments.
Welcome to D.U. :hi:
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
53. Kick
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
57. Great news. This article hints at bigger changes in the works for US-Cuba relations
ABOUT TIME!

I hope that Obama risks dropping the travel restrictions for ALL Americans. Not just Cubans living in the USA and their families.
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
60. Defense ministers of 12 Latam nations meeting in Santiago

The defense ministers of five countries, Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile and Uruguay told the United States that it is time to lift the economic blockade of Cuba if the Obama administration wants to improve relations with Latin America.

Brazilian Defense Minister Nelson Jobim, said it was "important that (the United States) change its policy with Cuba."

"The five ministers agreed that with the end of the Cold War, there are no reasons to see Cuba as a threat and therefore there is a need to incorporate it into (the hemisphere's) multilateral organizations."

(Semana article adds that the atmosphere at the conference is heated because of Colombia's stance on pre-emptive strikes against FARC and ELN guerrillas outside of its territory, i.e. Ecuador and Venezuela.)

(Spanish)
http://www.semana.com/noticias-america-latina/cinco-pai ...



"Hoje (Cuba) no representa nenhum problema de segurana aos EUA e a poltica dos EUA em relao a Cuba est mais determinada pelo lobby de presso interna cubana norte-americano, que por anlises puras", afirmou o ministro de Defesa uruguaio, Jos Bayardi.

"Cuba today does not represent any problem to the security of the United States and the U.S. policy in relation to Cuba is determined more by the internal Cuban-American lobby's pressure than by pure analysis," said Uruguayan Defense Minister Jose Bayardi.

(Portuguese)
http://www.estadao.com.br/internacional/not_int336495,0...





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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
61. What a load
of pseudo intellectual BS. Quite frankly, I find I entirely un-democratic that anyone could defend a country that suppresses representative government then again I'm not an 'amerika' hating commie lover like a few here. I know our government isn't perfect, far from it, but I don't believe that we are "beyond salvation". Given the alternatives I'd rather live in a pretend democracy than a place that doesn't even hide it contempt for even an inking of dissent That would promptly throw someone like you in jail without the slightest thought if you were to make such statements about them. Somehow I think you would find an appreciation of our pretend democracy
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. The right-wing lunatics are lucky to have people who, like Bush, are easily duped
by the crudest, most primitive loads of lies.

Do you even take the time to think, at any point, how absurd this saber rattling is?

You need to buckle down and start educating yourself on the subject you claim you know so much about.

There are tons of people here who've come and gone to Cuba for many years, who DO have some insight, who have friends and family on the island, who have a REAL understanding of the situation, who have a grasp of historical perspective.

Don't come here bellowing about what a load of "commie lovers" we are, Mr. Sophisticate. That kind of thinking works for drooling idiots like Joe McCarthy, who died of alcoholism after a lifetime of assholery.

Treat your reputation to a little respect by doing some simple homework. READ the history of US-Cuba relations. READ Cuban history. This won't get you the instant gratification you may require, it will involve a little self-discipline.

The lies are easy to learn, there's nothing to them. The truth takes longer. As Mark Twain said, "The truth is still putting on its boots while a lie is halfway around the world."
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