EX-UN PROSECUTOR: BUSH MAY BE NEXT UP AT THE HAGUE

[MiaCulpa]

Source: Raw Story

An ex-UN prosecutor has said that following the issuance of an arrest warrant for the president of Sudan, former US President George W. Bush could -- and should -- be next on the International Criminal Court's list.

The former prosecutor's assessment was echoed in some respect by United Nations General Assembly chief Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann, of Nicaragua, who said America's military occupation of Iraq has caused over a million deaths and should be probed by the United Nations.


Read more: http://rawstory.com/news/2008/ExUN_prosecutor_Bush_may_...

---

I dunno...pigs could fly, and monkeys might fly out my ass...a girl can hope, though.

Full story at the link.

-Diane

[polichick]

1. Yep - he could, and most definitely should!

[HowHasItComeToThis]

90. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

AW, LET ME REC IT AGAIN

[Pavulon]

2. Right after jesus comes back...

will ANY American president be in front of a gaggle of foreign nationals for anything other than to hand out US AID dollars.

[bjobotts]

93. It would take a foreign court to prosecute for war crimes as the US is compromised on Justice

[TheEuclideanOne]

96. Yes, exactly. How embarrassing!

It is pretty embarrassing that we can not police our own and need the international community to do it for us.

[lsewpershad]

128. What is really, really embarrassing

is how we are so quick to judge and condemn others.

[TheEuclideanOne]

134. in what way are we being quick to judge?

Are you saying that after 8 years we are rushing to haste? What would you recommend, 50 years?

[Pavulon]

115. That would require the constitution be ammended

to remove pesky items like due process, trial by jury of peers, all kinds of stuff people really like.

Again right after the rapture.

[merh]

125. to save the man's life the US should prosecute

He should be afforded a trial under our jury system and all rights afforded by the constitution. A US jury would be less likely to condemn him to death if convicted.

He would face the death penalty and fewer due process protections if prosecuted by the Hague.

He should think about it.

[David_NSU]

137. Georgy Boy isn't going to court

I firmly believe that George Bush will not be convicted to death and will not appear before any international court regarding the accussation of war crimes. Its just not going to happen...ever. He held the highest office in the free world and if you think there aren't friends, family, colleagues, and influential GOP members making sure this is nothing more than a headline I think you would be sadly mistaken.

[TAGGLINES]

143. BINGO...FUCK HIM ANYWAY!

[merh]

145. Are you here to defend him?

If so, you picked the wrong forum, took a left when you should have taken a right.

Notice I used the term "should" - he should seek the be tried here, the Hague can take years - they will wait and will try him when all of his influence and family are without the power to interfere -

[David_NSU]

147. Not defending...just reality

I'm not defending George Bush I just know that this will never happen. Not to say that it shouldn't happen but in reality we both know that it will not.

[Bigmack]

3. Hope Springs Eternal

[Gregorian]

7. True. I am so close to being cynical about this.

However, the pending case is more than likely going to continue to conviction. Then it's just a matter of time before they apprehend him.

Bush, et at. I just dearly hope for sanity and justice.

[Taverner]

4. Why do you think he got that land in Paraguay?

Paraguay does not extradite

[polichick]

5. And I'll bet Cheney has a place in Dubai - near the other Halliburton criminals.

[IntravenousDemilo]

8. Let's freeze and then seize Halliburton's assets and channel them into universal health care.

The assets of all current and past members of the Halliburton board of directors should also be seized, retroactive to three years before the invasion began. People have to be taught a painful lesson, that if they foment war, they will not receive even a penny in profit.

In fact, Congress should pass a law stating that it is illegal for any American citizen, or American company, or any foreign company staffed by and/or run by Americans, to profit in any way from war, but most particularly those connected in any way to anyone who holds any public office. And the next step will be to officially consider mercenary outfits such as Blackwater as terrorist organizations, and prohibit Americans from belonging to them, under penalty of severe fines and jail time.

The only way to eliminate war is to eliminate the profit.

[polichick]

11. True, but even Feinstein's husband is a war profiteer.

[IntravenousDemilo]

12. Then he should go to jail as a pauper. n/m

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IntravenousDemilo]

18. That would be fine, too. They can make beautiful licence plates together. n/m

[disndat]

57. make that billions, not millions.

I thought profiteering from war is considered high treason once. Di-Fi is well-known in S.F. for making big bucks in her various elected offices and husbands.

[CoffeeCat]

81. The very sad truth is...

...that every single politician who voted for the war in Iraq--knew damn well that it was a corrupt, lie-based
PNAC-hatched plan to make loads of money for investors; and also to begin their grand scheme to take over the Middle
East's resources.

Every damn single one of them knew.

It's sad to realize that they're all corrupt, but it's true. If they voted for it, they're no better than Bush.

It's possible that some were blackmailed into voting for it. I'm open to the possibility that many on our side have
been controlled by blackmail.

Doesn't make the result any better--but it does explain why some of our Democrats were such lily-livered lemmings during
BushCo's both terms.

[Webster Green]

97. She is part of the problem..

I can't wait to vote against her again.

DiFi sucks!

[Taverner]

20. She is a DINO

Trust me, as a Californian, she is no Democrat

She just had to run that way to win in this state

[polichick]

21. I hope she is voted out asap.

[disndat]

62. Most likely her last term

She's in her late 70s, and I think she has 4 more years to go. She can retire to her great big baronial mansion which she built in the S.F. hills, a couple of years ago, obscene display of her illegal wealth.

[Diclotican]

49. IntravenousDemilo

IntravenousDemilo

If Congress ever was to pass a law, stating that it was illegal for american citizien, or an american company, or forreigng company staffed by or run by american, it wil be the end of america as we know it.. How many companies earn ALOT of money when it came to US war abroad?.. I would say most companes, small, medium and big one earn their share of war for profit when it came to war... To this day, no american company have NOT be involved to war.

And I agree totally that current and past members of Halliburton and the spinnoffs should be penalited with a hefty price.. Becsoue it is no doubt that they have given their fair share of whatever came out of Iraq. And if some learn a painfull leasson then I am all for itt.. But I doubt that this type of persons learn anything, if you try to learn them with sign language... This type of pepole just dosen't care about how other humans have it.. As long as they can plunder, steal and do what they want, they are happy... They are far worse than the old Vikings of yesterday, or the old Pirates...

And by the way, most vikings was never in war, they traded for the most part.. But if they COULD get some for free, off course they was doing a little plunder... But just for the stuff the familiy needed..

Diclotican

[IntravenousDemilo]

70. I don't think it would be the end of America as we know it.

Rather, I believe it would lead to the end of war as we know it, and whatever benefits those companies might lose as a result are still a very small price to pay for that.

[Diclotican]

72. IntravenousDemilo

IntravenousDemilo

Maybe, but it Will be very painfully, on the time between when the US companies have to leave the trade of war, and to make things that we more need than guns and canons.. And just think, if the weapons manufactures was stop made weapon, just thing what RNA and Co would say.. They would be scared to their death if they do not have their "right" to have a new weapon every time a democratic president was elected (As an european I just can't understand why most american are in so love with a tool that kill so many of you every year)

But, if they was making tools to peace instead of tools to war, then not just US, but also the world as an large would be far better off... In the long time

Diclotican

[IntravenousDemilo]

73. Sure it'll be painful, but medicine is often unpleasant.

There is the old expression, "short-term pain for long-term gain". I'm not suggesting that weapons manufacturers have to stop making weapons; they just shouldn't be able to sell them at a profit.

Plus, it's better to yank the band-aid off quickly rather than drag out the process.

[Diclotican]

99. IntravenousDemilo

IntravenousDemilo

True, medicine is often unpleasant, but for the most part the painfully medicine works perfect.. And give you a better health after the illness.. And if weapons manufactures could be able to sell them at a profit I would guess that war tend to dwindling down to nothing... Because profit are in the books have always been...

I agree, better to end it soon, than to drag out the process.. But which member of your congress would dear to make such idea in the public forum?.. If the US was to stand up, and say they want to stop weapons manufactures it would be very difficult to everyone else to not stop it in their country too.. US still have some leverage in the world, even after 8 year with mr Bush.

Diclotican

[deaniac21]

110. Who is going to risk capital to not make a profit? You are in

dream territory.

[IntravenousDemilo]

126. Nobody, I hope, and that would be the point of the law. Warmongers must be deterred.

Appeals to reason, justice, mercy, brotherhood, and the better angels of our nature seem to fall on deaf ears, so they must be hit hard in the pocketbook. We have to start a "War on War", or we are all doomed.

[deaniac21]

136. Whoever has the weapons, wins.

[Diclotican]

139. deaniac21

deaniac21

But, if it is nothing to win after the war, then what? Nobody want to rule over ashes..?

Diclotican

[deaniac21]

148. I agree but it is still true.

[Jambalaya]

78. Bush covers his best buddies' behinds

Excerpted-

Bush Makes Sure US Companies Go Unchallenged

by Pratap Chatterjee and Oula Al Farawati, CorpWatch
August 8th, 2003

But legally there is not much that the Iraqis or Russians can do to contest this in the United States because of an executive order signed by president George Bush in late May. Executive order number 13303 states “any attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process is prohibited, and shall be deemed null and void”, with respect to “all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein.”

With this, Bush granted Iraqi oil a lifetime exemption provided US companies are involved in the oil’s production, transport, or distribution. This order applies to Iraqi oil products that are “in the United States, hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons.” (Under US law, corporations are “persons.")

“In other words, if ExxonMobil or ChevronTexaco touch Iraqi oil, anything they or anyone else does with it is immune from legal proceedings in the US,” explained Jim Vallette, an analyst with the Sustainable Energy & Economy Network of the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington DC.

“Anything that has happened before with oil companies around the world—a massive tanker accident; an explosion at an oil refinery; the employment of slave labor to build a pipeline; murder of locals by corporate security; the release of billions of tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere; or lawsuits by Iraq’s current creditors or the next true Iraqi government demanding compensation—anything at all, is immune from judicial accountability,” he says.

“Effectively Bush has unilaterally declared Iraqi oil to be the unassailable province of US oil corporations,” Vallette added.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=7989

[byeya]

15. Paraguay does not extridite, true, but the Colorado Party is

out and a more progressive alignment is in. It's possible for this law to be changed and we can hope for it.

[Taverner]

19. Yes - but I don't think the Colorado party was in power when Bush made the purchase

It would be kind of funny if they moved there, and they changed the law and extradited him from Paraguay...

IN fact, I would if that happened

[Ticonderoga]

135. See Link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extr...

[northernlights]

31. seriously? Paraguay = potable water

Bush is stooopid...but a clever thug.

He and his kind know the days of oil wealth and power are numbered. He started the Iraq war to get control of their oil and keep it in the ground, to force prices up so his oil buddies could make out while the getting is good.

In the meantime, potable water is expected to be the oil of the 21st century, per population growth versus climate change. Some areas will be increasingly deluged, but others will be overrun by desert.

Paraguay is sitting on one of the world's largest -- if not the largest -- pure water aquifers in the world. And his 10,000 acres are sitting right smack on top of the aquifer. Bought, most likely, to keep his little princesses at the top of the heap. Jenna actually closed the deal for him -- found the land, handled the details.

So what I'm really praying for is that Paraguay siezes the land -- or at least the water beneqath it -- by their version of eminent domain.

And decides not to tolerate mass murderers.

Win-win situation, in my book!

[liberation]

35. Unlike oil, we live surrounded by oceans...

you know... full of water and all.

[JackRiddler]

102. Water, water everywhere - and not a drop to drink

UNESCO's "Encyclopedia of Desalination and Water Resources," DESWARE, on:


http://www.desware.net/desa4.aspx

Table 1. Energy requirements of four industrial desalination processes.

(Follow link for chart)


Source: International Atomic Energy Agency 1992.

There are no major technical obstacles to desalination as a means of providing an unlimited supply of fresh water, but the high energy requirements of this process pose a major challenge. Theoretically, about 0.86 kWh of energy is needed to desalinate 1 m3 of salt water (34 500 ppm). This is equivalent to 3 kJ kg-1. The present day desalination plants use 5 to 26 times as much as this theoretical minimum depending on the type of process used. Clearly, it is necessary to make desalination processes as energy-efficient as possible through improvements in technology and economies of scale.

Desalination as currently practiced is driven almost entirely by the combustion of fossil fuels. These fuels are in finite supply; they also pollute the air and contribute to global climate change. The whole character of human society in the 20th century in terms of its history, economics and politics has been shaped by energy obtained mostly from oil. Almost all oil produced to date is what is called conventional oil, which can be made to flow freely from wells (i.e. excluding oil from tar sands and shale). Of this vast resource, about 1600 billion barrels have so far been discovered, and just over 800 billion barrels had been used by the end of 1997. It is estimated that there may be a further 400 billion barrels of conventional oil yet to be found. With current annual global consumption of oil being approximately 25 billion barrels, and rising at 2 per cent per annum, the "business as usual" scenario would suggest that the remaining oil will be exhausted by 2050.

((These numbers indicate that peak oil, at least for conventional oil, has happened or will happen soon -- indicataing a plateau in maximum oil extraction, and increasing energy requirements of extraction or net energy/EROEI which means "energy return on energy investment."))

The supply of oil will undoubtedly be boosted by an increase of supplies from unconventional sources, notably the tar sands and shale of Canada and the "Orinoco sludge" of Venezuela. This oil can only be extracted using high energy inputs, and at very high environmental costs. There will be strong political and international pressure against development of these resources, but, when world oil prices are high enough, production will inevitably increase. In theory, unconventional oil could stretch the world's oil supply by another 30 years. In practice, of course, the rate of consumption of oil will be heavily influenced by economic and many other factors, so that prediction in this area is very difficult. The political situation of two of the world's largest potential producers, Iran and Iraq, could be highly relevant to supplies as well as to the global political economy. It is clear, however, that one of the most important of the influencing factors will be the relative cost of renewable energy and how quickly the world can switch to sustainable technologies. There is nothing to gain by deferring investment in this area, and everything to lose by postponing it any longer.

---

Encyclopedia of Desalination and Water Resources - Contents

History, Development and Management
Physical, Chemical and Biological Properties of Water
The Desalination Site and Civil Works
Water Treatment
Common Fundamentals and Unit Operations in Thermal Desalination
Thermal Desalination Processes
Membrane Processes
Renewable Energy Systems and Desalination
Ancillary Equipment
Process Instrumentation, Control and Automation
Material Selection and Corrosion
Plant Operation, Maintenance and Management
Environmental Aspects
Thermal Power Plants and Co-generation Planning
Water Sciences and Technology Resources

DESWARE is a subset of the Encyclopedia of Water Sciences, Engineering and Technology Resources, which is part of the UNESCO Encyclopedia of Life Support Systems (EOLSS)
If you are interested in the broad area of Water Sciences, Engineering and Technology, please visit http://www.eolss.net

[shanti]

17. my first thought as well

[bvar22]

22. The OLD Paraguay did not extridite.

The Paraguayan people overthrew the old Right Wing Oligarchs in 2008, and elected a center-Left president.

The center-right Colorado Party has dominated Paraguayan politics since it took power in 1947, and it backed Gen. Alfredo Stroessner's brutal 35-year dictatorship until helping to oust him in 1989.

http://www.blnz.com/news/2008/04/20/Ex-bishop_wins_Para...

It would not be unrealistic to expect Paraguay to join the rest of the World in not tolerating War Criminals and mass murderers.

For Certain, this is a HUGE setback for the Bush family who have bought a huge tract of Paraguay for a family compound if things got too hot for them in the civilized World.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

38. Paraguay is a State Party to ICC

http://www2.icc-cpi.int/Menus/ASP/states+parties/Latin+...


Paraguay signed the Rome Statute on 7 October 1998.

[Pastiche423]

24. Paraquay did not extradite UNTIL

A leftist bishop became president in August 2008. Now it does.

[Patchuli]

68. Paraguay may not be such a refuge after all

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/lindorff/094

[madamesilverspurs]

69. Paraguay DOES have extradition treaty with US.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[hack89]

74. Internet myth I thought.

I looked this up when the story first appeared and hard facts to back this up are hard to find.

[Ticonderoga]

133. That used to be the case

But things have changed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extr...

[appleannie1]

6. Be great if 'should' and 'could' turned into 'does'.

[Botany]

9. "pigs could fly, and monkeys might fly out my ass..."

[City Lights]

10. Nothing would please me more.

I'll keep my fingers crossed, but won't hold my breath.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. I must be a flying pig monkey

I SO want this to happen.

I doubt it will.

[AndyTiedye]

16. Send Bush and Cheney to the Hague!

[pitchforksandtorches]

71. Barbara should be in that last photo as well.

[nichomachus]

23. If Sudan had nukes or money -- that guy wouldn't be there either

[aquart]

25. Seems reasonable to me.

[struggle4progress]

26. Support international law!

[jordi_fanclub]

27. Only Bush?... I can imagine a picture like this:

[Jefferson23]

41. OMG, that is a fabulous pic, lol.

[stillcool]

58. that's a thing of beauty...

[clixtox]

152. Where is Nancy Pelosi?

There are quite a few Democrats who are culpable legally for their collaboration, complacency, compliancy, complicity and ultimately their capitulation. Refusing to use/utilize every available option to stop the carnage makes those politicians as responsible, as potentially guilty for their omissions, as those who where more active in promoting and perpetrating all of the myriad war crimes.

Done in our names, you and me.

Good, peace loving Americans who opposed this Iraqi debacle from before it was started.

[HopeHoops]

28. GUILTY!

[mrs_p]

29. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

[AntiFascist]

30. K&R, best news all year! n/t

[buckrogers1965]

32. What is it they have been repeatedly telling us the last few years?

If you have nothing to hide, then you should welcome being investigated.

[MissDeeds]

33. IF there is a God in heaven

And if justice still lives anywhere in the world, Bush will be next up at the Hague.

And BTW, MiaCulpa, with sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Let's hope.

K&R

[indepat]

34. Jesus, how sweet it would be, but would it not indicate major nonfeasance on part of Madame

Speaker and we would not wish she be embarrassed, eh?

[stillcool]

59. they have cover...

everything they were told by the Administration was classified.

[WyldRogue]

36. Just another....

... flight of fancy opinion and article. Shrub and company will never be prosecuted as the current Dem leadership in all 3 houses with be sure that prosecutions never sees the light of day. They have the, 'we should not look back but forward', 'we don't want to look like we're out for revenge/conducting a witch-hunt', and the ever favorite 'we need bi-partisanship' mentality.

C'est la vie in America, politics and business as usual as they have us all foot the bills yet won't do what's right...

[rambler_american]

52. The International Criminal Court

cares nothing for the current Dem leadership and does not need their support to prosecute war criminals. Serving an arrest warrant and actually taking bush and company into custody may be a little problematic, though. But nothing would make me happier.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stillcool]

61. A couple of hundred (thousand?) detainee's...

will be heard. The only justice they will ever see is from outside the U.S. If the U.S. loses influence in the world, due to our bankrupt government, they will have a shot. We'll see how the world community responds.

[Joey Liberal]

37. Bush & Cheney belong in jail! nt

[pipi_k]

39. those two tricky words...

"could" and "should"

To hell with that.


I want to hear two completely different words...

WILL BE



Until I hear those words, I'm not going to waste my time and energy getting all excited.

Sorry... I don't mean to be a downer about it all...but we've been living on "could" and "should" for a long time now.

Now we want real action.

[Jefferson23]

40. This would be a dream come true, the trial of George W. Bush for

crimes against humanity.

[goforit]

42. NOW that would be justice the world has been looking for. Economies would rise!!

[Sultana]

43. Oh, plz let it happen

It would be the best day ever.

[Tab]

44. Works for me.

Unfortunately I see a sudden trip to Paraguay in his future.

[bvar22]

45. Our "government" will NEVER do this.....That is why...

.....I support a private effort by Citizens of the World.
It is clear that the Democratic Party and the US Justice Department will do NOTHING to hold the criminals accountable.
A private organization representing Citizens of the World would have better results.

I will donate $500 to ANY organization that will place a Bounty on Bush/Cheney to be paid to anyone who provides evidence or sworn testimony that leads to the issuing of an International Arrest Warrant..

A small, transparent trust could be set up by a handful of lawyers, and located in a neutral country like Switzerland. If the BOUNTY is promoted internationally, it would quickly grow to Mega-Millions.

The fund would also be tasked with running full page "Wanted For War Crimes" ads in major Global newspapers every 3 months until the Bounty is awarded or depleted.

Wanted
for
WAR CRIMES

A $500 Million Dollar Reward will be paid to any individual, organization, or country that provides evidence or sworn testimony that leads to the arrest, or the issuance of an International Arrest Warrant for War Crimes committed by George Bush, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, or Donald Rumsfeld.

I have neither the resources or skills to institute such a fund, but I am willing to donate $500. I also believe that there are at least a million more worldwide (extreme minimum) who would also be willing to donate....that adds up to some serious money.

Even if Bush/Cheney are never arrested, a Mega-Million Dollar International Bounty would certainly keep them looking over their shoulders and curtail retirement travel plans.

It would also put a nice ribbon around the Bush Legacy, AND serve as a warning to future "Unitary Executives".

[Dinger]

47. Kick & Rec X Infinity!

I agree with you 100%!

[rambler_american]

54. Brattleboro, VT

could certainly use the money.

Two Vermont towns approve Bush-Cheney indictment articles
Email|Print| Text size – + By John Curran
Associated Press Writer / March 4, 2008

BRATTLEBORO, Vt.—Voters in two southern Vermont towns passed articles Tuesday calling for the indictment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney for violating the Constitution.
more stories like this

More symbolic than substantive, the items sought to have police arrest Bush and Cheney if they ever visit Brattleboro or nearby Marlboro or to extradite them for prosecution elsewhere -- if they're not impeached first.

In Brattleboro, the vote was 2,012 for and 1,795 against. In Marlboro, it was 43 to 25, with three abstentions.

"I hope the one thing that people take from this is `Hey, it can be done,'" said Kurt Daims, 54, who organized the petition drive that led to the Brattleboro vote.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2008/...

[Amonester]

76. I bet there would be a million (at the very least) US citizens who would

be willing to donate $500 to that end too (provided that their donation would be properly deposited and not spent until any of these war criminals will be put under arrest).

I would (and will, if it becomes real).

[Peace Patriot]

46. Well, one thing is clear--it ain't gonna happen here.

These guys are immunized. I don't know exactly who was involved or why. I suspect that Leon Panetta and Daddy Bush were part of it (the Iraq Study Group?), and others, and that it was very high stakes (perhaps involving nuking Iran and martial law here--circa late 2006; "impeachment is off the table"). Obama just copped out on American citizens being declared "enemy combatants" and held in indefinite detention--today at the Supreme Court. I don't think he can take any action that will jeopardize Jr's freedom in particular.

However immunity was arranged, and why, we may never know, but I think it's over. They're all gonna walk.

So, on to the Hague!

[CoffeeCat]

84. Are you saying that Obama...

...continued the Bush legacy--which allows American citizens to be declared enemy combatants and
also allows the government to detain them indefinitely???

Obama did something to ensure that those horrible Bushisms would live on???

[Peace Patriot]

101. Yes, Obama's DoJ insured that the President retains the power of "enemy combatant"

status and indefinite detention for American citizens, by asking the Supreme Court not to rule on it, yesterday, in a case involving an American. They should have advocated for the Supreme Court to rule. They did not. And the Supreme Court cowards/colluders deferred to the White House and failed to rule. This means that Obama either, a) wants to retain those powers, or b) does not want Bush actions definitively described as unconstitutional (presumably for the reasons I outlined--it would put Bush & fellow war criminals in more jeopardy, and if Obama agreed to "The Deal" for their immunity, in order to be permitted into the White House, he is constrained to take these actions to protect them).

The latter is speculation on my part, but it is becoming more and more obvious that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and perhaps others (Rove?) somehow have immunity in this country from prosecution for any of their many, many crimes, and, further, that the rule of law has not been restored--we merely have a more lawful and certainly better administration, but our Constitution is gone. Our Constitution has been shaky ever since the CIA assassinated JFK and RFK.* The "secret government" has ruled ever since--that is, vetted our candidates mainly for their adherence to big military budgets and use of our military to further corporate geo-political interests--but this naked Bush/Cheney assault on Americans' Constitutional rights, and asserting presidential powers to write their own laws and to maintain massive secrecy, are new. Possibly Obama--a Constitutional scholar--wants to restore the rule of law, but my theory is that he is constrained by "the Deal." "The Deal" was made to prevent armageddon in the ME (and the planet?)--the nuking of Iran--and to get Cheney/Rumsfeld to leave without a struggle. Those who made "the Deal" may have done so for what they thought were compelling reasons, but it nevertheless leaves us without a Constitution. And that puts us in great peril, especially considering that we have also lost all transparency in voting counting (it has been privatized, and is controlled by rightwing corporations with 'TRADE SECRET' code--which can be used strategically, whenever necessary, for rightwing/corpo-fascist purposes, and we are helpless--have no recourse--against further stolen elections).

[ProgressIn2008]

141. Excellent post. I'd add "c) Obama doesn't want to face future prosecution himself" or

"d)a mix of all of the above)".

Not warm 'n' fuzzy for the Gobama! crowd, but it's time they grew up.

[Peace Patriot]

150. *I meant to recommend this book: "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters,"

by James Douglass, in my post above - to provide further material on why our Constitution has been shaky since the JFK assassination. Douglass makes a compelling case that it was our own CIA on behalf of the "military-industrial complex," because JFK had an plan to END the 'Cold War' - to disarm, to make peace with Soviet Russia, and end all the proxy wars. Two days after JFK was killed, LBJ said, "Now they can have their war." He was talking about Vietnam.

Ever since then, we have had the CIA vetting our presidential candidates. If they are good soldiers, and support big military budgets, and go along with wars and other rotten actions that serve our Corporate Rulers, the CIA gives a "thumbs up" to the media and other powers, and if the candidate threatens the war establishment (like Howard Dean did, and earlier, George McGovern), they get "thumbs down" and that candidate is destroyed. And now they 'TRADE SECRET' code voting machines, run by corporations, to enforce rightwing rule. So, do we have a democracy? Only in so far as this secret government permits it. And, although our secret government turned against Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, they are not at all against their wars--but B,C and R went too far--with the plan to nuke Iran, the torture and outing CIA agents, etc.

Anyway, when you go back and study that assassination--and Douglass' book covers it all completely and extremely well--you can see it very clearly. You can see how we got here--why our democracy is so damaged, and how a Bush Junta could happen.

[CoffeeCat]

85. My guess...

All of what we saw during the Bush Administration was the handiwork of the PNAC (neocon) higher ups.

George was just the little lap dog who could jump through hoops, look cute and get elected.

No way in hell the top dogs in this cabal would let the facade take the judicial hit for THEIR crimes. In fact,
George was never involved in PNAC. He was never a signatory on any of their documents. Jeb was, and so was
Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Kristol, Feith and the rest of the get-along-gang.

There's an echelon of really corrupt bastards running the show.

I'll never forget George Bush talking about when he first "decided" to run for President. I don't think he
realized how much info he gave away. He described a meeting between himself and George Shultz. It sounded like
the boy wonder meeting the scary don, who would dictate George Bush's role. Shultz is referred to as "the father of
the Bush Doctrine" because he has strongly advocated for preventative war and made this clear as a policy advisor
to George Bush during his 2000 presidential campaign.

In 1999 and 2000--the Republicans were scrambling to find a face for their Republican party. Jeb Bush was
probably supposed to be their saving grace, but he had some scandals that extinguished that hope. George
was their "Hail Mary pass."

It's all....so revolting.

[Peace Patriot]

104. I totally agree that Bush was a puppet. It's intersting, too, that George Schultz also met with

Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ken Lay in a Los Angeles hotel in mid-May 2001, to arrange for Schwarzenegger to be Diebolded into the CA governor's office--in the weird recall election in 2003 (with 125 candidates on the ballot, and Time mag and Larry King giving famous actor Schwarzenegger millions of dollars in free, extra publicity), in order to protect Enron's theft of $10 billion from CA--CA's entire budget surplus (built up by Dem Gov Gray Davis). Greg Palast reported on this meeting. Of course the corpo/fascist press never mentioned it. That Recall election was the first all-Diebold election in CA, with absolutely no audit/recount controls (hardly anyone understood the technology at that point*). CA was a pre-cursor, and state level version, of what the Neo-Con, Puke fuckwads were about to do the U.S. of A.--bankrupt the country. Steal everything not nailed down. And steal all future monies unto the 7th generation. They did it to CA first.

----

*(At least now we have a paper trail. Long story to that. Schultz & cabal also went after the good Dem CA SoS who was elected in 2002. The previous Puke SoS had Diebolded the state, then went to work for one of the e-voting corps. But the good SoS, Kevin Shelley, had barely had time to put his name on the door, when the Recall was sprung on us. He later became suspicious, and sued Diebold and demanded to see their source code, six months prior to the 2004 election. He also tried to get us a paper ballot backup, for '04. They drove Shelley from office--on entirely bogus corruption charges--just after the 2004 election, probably to protect the '03 Recall, and the '04 election, from any investigation, and to retain the ability to fix CA elections. Kerry won CA but by not as much as he should have, and I believe a big chunk of stolen votes went to pad Bush/Cheney's national popular (phony) majority. Also, a bunch of Pukes got 'elected' in CA. After they got rid of Shelley, Schwarz appointed a Diebold shill as SoS. We recently managed to elect a better SoS, but she is merely patching up our broken election system--for instance, enforcing a paper ballot backup rule--not fundamentally challenging it. It is still very riggable, just slightly less so than about half the systems in the country, which have no paper trail whatsoever.)

[Jack Rabbit]

48. If the US is unwilling or unable to prosecute, then this is the way to fly

We should all hope.

I won't lift a finger to assist Mr. Bush or his lieutenants in resisting arrest. If necessary, I would offer my services in assisting in the arrest.

[Titonwan]

50. Sounds good to me!

If Obama isn't going to do this, well let's push the U.N. to.

[Theory5]

51. If there is justice in the world.................

Bush is the worst president in the history of the US. No exception.
I do however recall someone mentioning that bush put a clause in some bill saying he cant be tried for war crimes? Could someone say something different or confirm this?

[rambler_american]

53. Even it that were so

it would not prevent the ICC from prosecuting him. Still, I'm not holding my breath waiting for the arrest.

[Jefferson23]

56. The Military Commissions Act 2006, it is a vile piece of trash

that 35 Democrats helped pass just before that years election. Obama voted against it and only part of it was struck down in June 2008. What was included in the MCA that you are asking about:

"In 2005, a provision of the Detainee Treatment Act (section 1004(a)) had created a new defense as well as a provision to providing counsel for agents involved in the detention and interrogation of individuals “believed to be engaged in or associated with international terrorist activity”. The 2006 MCA amended section 1004(a) of the Detainee Treatment Act to guarantee free counsel in the event of civil or criminal prosecution and applied the above mentioned legal defense to prosecutions for conduct that occurred during the period September 11, 2001 to December 30, 2005. Although the provision recognizes the possibility of civil and or criminal proceedings, the Center for Constitutional Rights has criticized this claiming that "The MCA retroactively immunizes some U.S. officials who have engaged in illegal actions which have been authorized by the Executive." <34>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act_o...

[mod mom]

63. MCA of '06 will forever be a stain on this nation. Seems weird now, but

It scared the shit out of me. I worked not only on anti war efforts but also in exposing the election theft in Ohio. I was scared enough to have a talk with my young children explaining to them how good people doing what is right can be arrested. I really thought that was what might happen. Those who voted for it threw away the right to habeas corpus at the time there was an unelected, sadistic tyrant running the country.

[Jefferson23]

127. I agree, forever a stain is right.

[ejbr]

55. Well, if this should happen,

will you film the monkeys coming out of your ass?

[sellitman]

60. Error: You've already recommended that thread 345874 times.

[glinda]

64. This should be the rational for Obama/Dems getting going on investigations.

If they do not, couldn't they be implicated also?

[pam4water]

65. Sweet!

[Akoto]

66. Call me a cynic, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Furthermore, I think Cheney should be there as much as I do Bush (if not more so).

[NewJeffCT]

67. I'd love to see it, but

I doubt it will happen... and, if it does, it will never make the news here and will be ignored by 99% of society. Bush will stay safely on his gated home in Dallas till the end of his days.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

75. that would be fun to see

[MADem]

77. Could is one thing, should is another, but would? It's unlikely in the extreme.

Obama would not agree to extradite him.

They're in the same "club," now. There aren't that many US Presidents in the world. He's in an exclusive confraternity.

He'll protect Bush for the sake of the office, if not for the person.

[meuniermr]

80. I don't expect them to be taken into custody

However I think we will see them left restricted to their own country like Henry the K.

[valerief]

82. Well, as long as they don't tip him off with their plans! nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

120. .

Kinda like that impeachment is off the table tip off, eh?


I'm sure lil' george is simply terrified.

[femrap]

83. That would be so cool...!

I didn't think I'd see Capitalism dissolve in front of my eyes so getting W drunk and on an airplane headed to The Hague is not out of the question.

[Time for change]

86. That's the best news I've heard in a while

[liberalsince1968]

87. How far would Obama go to cover Bush's criminal ass?

[windoe]

88. Bush&Co are world criminals

so it is fitting a world court tries them. I think they are too big for the US to handle, it seems.

Flying pigs and little dirty monkeys all over the place when that happens.

[burning rain]

89. Some of our bolder European friends...

such as Belgium or Spain (cf. the Pinochet affair) could help get the ball rolling by indicting one or another neocon who travels abroad. I'm all for prosecuting these creeps, but help is more than welcome wherever we can find it.

[colsohlibgal]

91. Time To Face The Music!

I really hope this happens - they (Bush and Cheney) need to be tried for all the bloodshed and ruined lives on their hands. I almost get physically ill when I think about all the human suffering, not to mention what will be trillions of dollars wasted, that these two sociopaths caused - while they and their cronies looted tons of cash

Of course a large part of the blame has to go to the 40 million or so brain dead and/or filthy rich americans who voted for this obvious nutcase thereby making the 2000 and 2004 elections stealable. Complicit as well is the corporate media - due to their role of totally abandoning thoir job, for cheerleading when they should have been asking tough questions. Edward R Murrow had to be turning over in his grave.

[HEyHEY]

92. Sadly, it won't happen

If this came from a guy sitting now or something I'd put more stock into it. However, we must face facts that this is just some guy who was a former prosecutor. Pretty weak story really.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Optical.Catalyst]

95. Bush could -- and should -- be next on the International Criminal Court's list

I couldn't agree more

[Wizard777]

98. Bring it on! Lets roll!

[Christa]

100. K & R

Until we get rid of the rot of the past, we cannot move forward.

[mwb970]

103. bush and cheney belong in prison.

Any move to put them there has my support.

[Rebel Scum]

105. I bet Vincent Bugliosi would be happy to head the prosecution team...

Seeing he already has his case laid out in his book!

[Earth_First]

106. Wont.Fucking.Happen.

Excuse the cynicism, but it's been a long 8 years.

[jeff30997]

107. This would be great but...

Cheney would LHAO while Chimpy gets the slammer.

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

108. one can always hope, but not gonna hold my breath

[olegramps]

109. Personally, I would be happy with an indictment.

With an arrest warrant from the Hague. This would make him fair game for arrest if he left the country. I don't look for the Justice Department to have the balls to charge him and that fat asshole Cheney and little prick Rumsfeld.

[pacalo]

111. I do believe this could happen.

(1) The horror of what happened is not going to go away;

(2) There is nothing more horrific than the "president" of the most respected (until he took office) country in the world lying to the rest of the world in order to invade another country, particularly after the boy king previously said publically, "He tried to kill my dad."

The Hague is the most appropriate venue to try him, imo. The world despises him & will not forget any more than we will.

[USA_1]

112. Let's All Shout ''Guillotine!''

[TankLV]

130. THAT's what I've been shouting here for YEARS...

Nothing less will do.

And I'm utterly SERIOUS.

I used to think that the "excesses" of the French and Russian Revolutions were just that - but I have come to fully and unequivocally support the actions of those revolutionary governing bodies and their executions.

It seems to me the only REASONABLE way to rid us all of these CRIMINALS in every facet of our society.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ezdidit]

114. Bush Arrest in Canada unLkely on March 17...

He's a hot potato over here, but the Canadians could easily lend a hand and render him to The Hague for us.

[Pavulon]

116. Umm no.

You do understand this would lead to a gunfight. The SS protects the president and would not turn him over. Unless they should all be killed.

This is a pipe dream.

[FailureToCommunicate]

146. "... there would be a gun fight with the Secret Service" ?!? What have you been smoking?

"Pipe dream' indeed...
So in your take on the Constitution and international law (which I know we're not signatories to) not only the President but the Secret Service are above the rule of law?

The Hague should have hinted about this long before now. Like before the 2004 elections would have been a good time!!

[Lorien]

117. Please, please please let it be so. nt

[Jamastiene]

118. The Hague is a joke.

Old man Poppy Bush has been on their arrest list for about 20 years now. They've never actually done anything about it though. They never do. It would be nice if they ever actually followed through on anything.

[redqueen]

119. He's right, bush is long overdue actually. (nt)

[TankLV]

121. Good, POSITIVE news...but like many here - I won't hold my breath...;

but - on the other hand - these things take time, and their WAR CRIMES are serious and cannot be lessened or sugar coated and more and more EVIDENCE is coming out every day - maybe soon there will be just too much to ignore...

[liberal N proud]

122. Then the nation and the world can begin to heal

[oedura]

123. I'll believe it when I see it...

...and not a second before.

And even if it does happen, I'll be amazed if he's convicted of anything.

They should hang the bastard in a gibbet out in front of the Capitol Building and leave him there until the gulls from the Potomac pick his bones clean as a warning to all of his little Republican buddies.

[AyanEva]

124. This would be lovely

But I expect I'll see one of the horsemen of the apocalypse knocking on my door and asking to use my bathroom before I see this happen.

[Chisox08]

129. K and R

It's good to hear that Bush's war crimes won't go unpuinished. Only if the US Government would have done it first.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

131. Excellent!!!! Let's hope for this.

"The arc of the Universe...bends towards justice" MLK

[L. Coyote]

132. Truth and Justice will rise from the ashes of recent centuries, we hope to liberate the world.

History is not a sweet delusion, rather a cruel reality we must confront.

[bitchkitty]

138. There's a Church within walking distance.

I'm going to go say a fucking novena - I urge all those with religious beliefs to join me in prayer.

Or just BELIEVE that we will see justice.

Then come back to reality and have a martini...but I can dream!

[47of74]

142. I think tonight I will do just that

If I go to church this evening I think I will do just that, pray for justice to be served.

[47of74]

151. Ok, I did that this evening.

This evening when I was at church I knelt in front of the tabernacle and asked God to see that justice is served.

[ProgressIn2008]

140. Pretty words. While rich & powerful war criminals walk free. Enough. nt

[chknltl]

144. International Criminal Tribunal For Afghanistan in '04

This document may be relevent to the discussion. It has been posted here in the DU every now and again over the years.: http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Afghanistan-Crimin...


"THE PEOPLE

Versus

GEORGE WALKER BUSH
President of the United States of America

The Prosecution has presented a formidable Indictment against the Defendant, George Walker Bush, President of the United States and Commander -in-Chief of US military forces for serious crimes ; waging a war of aggression on Afghanistan, war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Afghan people, against prisoners of war ; and the use of radioactive depleted uranium weapons of mass destruction , against the people of Afghanistan ; with serious fall out effects on the military personnel of the United States ,UK and other forces deployed ; and on countries, in and around the region . "

View the document in it's entirety:
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Afghanistan-Crimin...

[garybeck]

149. Obama says blogs are misleading, but I guess I'll kick this anyway.

[yurbud]

153. kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick,