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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 09:41 PM
Original message
Italian coma woman’s death ends Berlusconi’s bid to keep her alive
Source: The Independent (UK)

Italian coma woman’s death ends Berlusconi’s bid to keep her alive

Senators thwarted in bid to fast-track law to replace force-feeding tubes

By Peter Popham in Rome

Tuesday, 10 February 2009

Eluana Englaro, the 38-year-old Italian woman who spent 17 years in a permanent vegetative state, died shortly after 8pm last night in a clinic in the city of Udine, frustrating the efforts of Silvio Berlusconi to pass a law that would have kept her alive.


Eluana suffered disastrous brain damage in a car crash in 1992. Her father, Beppino, fought a bitterbattle to have what he said were his daughter’s wishes, not to endure a living death, respected. His voice wracked with emotion, he said last night: “I’ve done everything alone, I’ve brought it to this level alone, and I want to finish alone. I don’t want to talk to anyone. The only thing I ask ofmy true friends is not to come looking for me.” The news exploded in the Senate in Rome, which was in the process of debating a hurriedly cobbled-together law that would have made the termination of Eluana’s force-feeding illegal.

Senators stood for a minute’s silence in her memory, but the pious mood was shattered when a member of the ruling People of Liberty party, Gaetano Quagliariello, shouted: “Eluana is not dead, she’s been murdered!”

The session was suspended amid noisy protests. When senators returned, the Senate leader of the centre- left Democratic Party, Anna Finocchiaro, declared angrily, “The umpteenth act of political outrage on the body of Eluana is under way.”

The Englaro family’s long agony – Beppino’s wife is gravely ill with cancer – appeared to be at an end last November when Italy’s highest court approved the removal of the feeding tubes that have kept Eluana alive all these years.

But those who hoped the torment would soon be over reckoned without the determination of the Vatican’s ultra-conservative hierarchy and their political allies to prevent Italy taking what they regarded as the first step in the direction of legalised euthanasia.


Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/italian-coma-womanrsquos-death-ends-berlusconirsquos-bid-to-keep-her-alive-1605508.html



RIP Eluana. FRAK you Berlusconi and the Vatican!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. You mean to keep her UTERUS alive
Obviously that's the only part Silvio thinks is worth anything.
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. We should be grateful nobody sneaked a bunch of Snowflake Fetii in there......
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rollingrock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Bunch of old pervert priests
probably want to molest it.
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4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. The way the hardcore religious consider "be fruitful and multiply", birth control, and a woman's
right to choose, it's obvious that many of them think a woman is little more than a walking uterus.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why give up, now, Berlusconi?
Quitter!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Did you catch that cardinal charging murder?
Cardinal Javier Lozano Barrigan, the Vatican’s minister of health, said: “May God forgive those who have done this.”

Isn't the Vatican the only male-only country in the world, and if so, why is the Vatican interfering in Italian affairs? Shouldn't Italy reclaim the lands stolen from her by the Vatican?
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. The Vatican has a population that is about 21% female, and has had women for centuries.
Today it looks like 21% of the people in the Vatican are female:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0701216.htm

Now the Courts and Diplomatic corps are still all males but the third highest position in the Vatican (after the Pope and the Secretary of State) is Salesian Sister Enrica Rosanna who was named the undersecretary of the Vatican congregation, which is the #3 position in the Vatican Hierarchy.

http://ncronline.org/mainpage/specialdocuments/rosanna.htm

Story of the first four Nuns named to a position of power in the Vatican in 1967(Previously had only support roles):
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/f0000363.shtml
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Wait for it, he will try and have her declared a saint. nt
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Whew! Something that nuts could never happen in America
Bad craziness.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. While the Vatican has taken a position against withdrawing food and water
Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 11:15 PM by happyslug
The Rule forbidding the withdraw of Food and Water is a GENERAL RULE, not tied in with this case. If you want to read why John Paul II made the rule see his letter in regard in such matters:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2004/march/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20040320_congress-fiamc_en.html

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070801_nota-commento_en.html

His biggest problem with withholding food and water was this was a deliberate act by medical providers to kill a still living person (His opinion does NOT address the issue if someone is "brain dead" but still breathing and if artificial breathing devices would be withdrawn the person will die, in such cases older position papers would still be valid).

Please note the position of Pope Pius XII (Quoted in the above "Commentary" regarding people in Permanent Vegetative StateS:

On the one hand, natural reason and Christian morality teach that, in the case of a grave illness, the patient and those caring for him or her have the right and the duty to provide the care necessary to preserve health and life. On the other hand, this duty in general includes only the use of those means which, considering all the circumstances, are ordinary, that is to say, which do not impose an extraordinary burden on the patient or on others. A more severe obligation would be too burdensome for the majority of persons and would make it too difficult to attain more important goods. Life, health and all temporal activities are subordinate to spiritual ends. Naturally, one is not forbidden to do more than is strictly obligatory to preserve life and health, on condition that one does not neglect more important duties.

Some other cites:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdlife/documents/rc_pont-acd_life_doc_20040320_joint-statement-veget-state_en.html

http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/may/caringforpersons.htm

If you read the above papers the key word is "Ordinary care", which the Vatican defines as including food and water. The papers go on that they are restricted to circumstances where someone is unconscious, but able to survive WITHOUT medical care except for being feed and supplied water. This goes to the issue of WHERE do you draw the line. The Vatican draws the line in an area where you will have people in a comatose state, but otherwise surviving. No extra medical care except for a feeding and water tube.

The opposition to the Vatican position is it should be up to family members to make that decision. The Vatican's problem with that is what controls are you imposing? We all agree we do not want hospital administrators to be able to say "It has been X years, lets pull the feeding tube and free up a bed". We also do NOT want such administrators to pressure families to "free up a bed" (as in the case in Texas a few years ago, the Hospital wanted to pull the plug, while the family did not want to, if I remember right the Hospital won under a Law passed when Bush was Governor).

More on the Texas case I cited:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2005/05/03/texas/
http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/fb812f57-3447-4b4f-bdd0-48f624e42132

Thus the question is who decides and when. The Vatican has drawn a line and staying with it. Many people do NOT like that line, but it is defend able (The Pope calls for assistance to families who has a member in a Permanent Vegetative State in addition to keep feeding the person in the Coma, but then he grow up in a State with National Health Service (Poland) and most of the people in the Vatican has also lived in such countries (Western Europe including Italy).

One last comment, only the Independent newspaper claim this was Vatican inspired, every one else just blamed the Prime Mister of Italy (And his attempt to use to the get support). The Vatican is conspicuous by its absence in this matter (The Vatican Secretary of Heath made a statement, which states his personal position as to the death of this woman, but that is all, a simple statement when questioned, no official statement). It may reflect how the Vatican looks at this situation, it may not. I always like quoting an old observation of the Common Law, "Hard Cases make Bad Law". The rationale for that statement is when you have a hard case, like should this woman continue to live, the result is never good. Which way to you want to err? Err on the side that she MAY recover? Or err that she will not? Tough decision and I am glad I am not making it.

As to the Bishop who made that statement Javier Cardinal Lozano Barragán in April of 2006 stated that a previous report that he had issued a paper calling Condemns a lesser evil in regards to AIDS was in error, he did NOT have the Authority in the Vatican Hierarchy to issue such a paper (The alleged paper apparently was for internal discussion only, it was made and then used in some sort of internal discussion, which probably has not worked it way through the Vatican Hierarchy yet). Thus the Bishop's comments are clearly his own NOT the Vatican nor Catholic doctrine.

For more on Javier Cardinal Lozano Barragán
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Lozano_Barrag%C3%A1n
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Betty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. think of the babies that won't be born now
apparently that's all that fucktard burlusconi cared about.
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the_chinuk Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. Sorry to be irreverent here, but I love that headline ...
"Italian coma woman’s death ends Berlusconi’s bid to keep her alive"

Well, it would kind of make Berlusconi's bid to keep her alive, wouldn't it?

Anybody know if they had a Senator make a diagnosis via tape from the Italian Senate floor?
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Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. Good.
She died many years ago and now her family will have some closure.

What the Church and government did to that family and to her is cruel.

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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. RIP Eluana, you are definitely in a better place now, far away from that Berlusconi creep
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