Former USS Cole commander slams Obama on Guantanamo

[kpete]

Source: McClatchy

Former USS Cole commander slams Obama on Guantanamo

By Carol Rosenberg | Miami Herald

The former commander of the USS Cole, the American war ship that was struck by a suicide boat in Yemeni waters more than eight years ago, on Thursday slammed President Barack Obama's orders to close the Guantanamo detention center and reassess the prisoners being held there.

''We shouldn't make policy decisions based on human rights and legal advocacy groups,'' retired U.S. Navy Cmdr. Kurt Lippold said in a telephone interview. "We should consider what is best for the American people, which is not to jeopardize those who are fighting the war on terror — or even more adversely impact the families who have already suffered loses as a result of the war."

Lippold was responding to the decision by a U.S. military judge in Guantanamo to reject a request by Pentagon lawyers to delay next week's scheduled arraignment of Abd el Rahim al Nashiri, a Saudi Arabian who's charged with helping orchestrate the October 2000 suicide bombing of the Cole. The bombing killed 17 U.S. sailors.

In his ruling, the judge, Army Col. James Pohl, said a delay in Nashiri's arraignment would deny the public's interest in a speedy trial. He also said nothing that took place at the arraignment would prevent the Obama administration from deciding to deal with Nashiri in a forum other than the military commission now set to hear his case.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/61061.html

[bluestateguy]

1. Criticism of the Commander in Chief provides direct aid and comfort to the enemy

At least that's what we were told for the last 8 years.

[melm00se]

25. he is no longer

a member of the USN, so that does not apply here

[Endangered Specie]

41. no but Republicans say that retires US Military members

who criticized the Bush admin were "aiding and comforting the enemy"

Now that one is criticizing Obama, its all good.

I think the author's goal was to point that out

[YOY]

2. Sorry Comander Lippold...but obeying human rights is what's best for

the American people.

[ohio2007]

57. American people wanted trials. Keeping these people locked up without is the crime against humanity

The checks and balances in place will see that the trials are constitutional imo

proceed with the proceedings unless this is a test of how far the executive branch will test the judiciary


...what *co started.......

[blueclown]

3. Arrest him for treason.

[struggle4progress]

52. Aw, give the guy a break. He's wrong, but his ship got blown up; our last

president botched diplomacy with Yemen, and so Yemen let most of the suspects go free; there's a Guatanamo military commission hearing underway for one of the suspects; and now Obama is saying that process needs to be revisited. He's probably upset that there's no justice yet, and he's probably worried there will be no justice. What he's saying is not in any way treasonous: misguided is more accurate

[cobalt1999]

4. It's a free country, he can have his opinion.

However, I doubt Obama considers his opinion anymore than he considers what my dog thinks.

[pasto76]

9. as an officer, he's only able to say this because he's retired.

otherwise it would, in fact, be treason under UCMJ.

[Howardx]

5. does letting his ship be bombed

make him a terrorism expert?

[atreides1]

6. That's why he retired as a Commander

It's nice to know that the commander has little regard for human rights or justice.

And he thinks that it's in the best interest of the American people to piss on the Constitution, a document he swore to defend.


"Lippold's own pronouncements in the case were ironic. A Navy inquiry questioned whether Lippold had taken appropriate measures to prevent an attack on the vessel. No one was in the ship's command center when the suicide boat rammed into the Cole's side and no planning had been undertaken for such an eventuality. But Lippold was not disciplined."

Maybe those 17 families are just as disappointed that Lippold wasn't disciplined under the UCMJ, but he was disciplined.

Edited for spelling.:)

[pasto76]

10. I knew a navy squid back then

he once declared that "our navy is untouchable". I repsonded "like the Cole?" Perhaps this was the pervasive attitude in the navy back then.

[sailor65]

24. You should know better

Lippold was not disciplined for obvious reasons; the rules of engagement at the time forbade his crew from opening fire on the approaching boat, which is why standing rules were reviewed and altered as a result. 17 good sailors died because we didn't (And often still don't) allow our warship to act as a warship.

I expect the usual from the usual civilian idiots, but you should know better.

[lapfog_1]

36. You should perhaps adjust your attitude...

"civilian idiots" are the people that pay the taxes that pay (or paid) your salary and purchased your ship.

You serve (or served) them. The policies established are those of our elected officials, who represent us, those "civilian idiots" you decry. Since this has been a volunteer force for nearly as long as most serving members of our military have been in the service, you and every other member of the military had a choice.

Never forget who is the boss.

Those 17 sailors died because for a lot of reasons, but not because "civilian idiots didn't allow our warship to act as a warship". Running around the world and shooting at every potential threat is not how we win friends and influence people. As I recall, we were NOT at war with Yemen at the time. Or do you think the policy of "shoot first" should apply only when our warships are anchored in Islamic ports of call?

[Carolina]

48. touche!

excellent response :hi:

[tabasco]

47. Bullshit. Lippold fucked up.

There's never been a prohibition on self-defense.

Lippold got lazy and failed to protect his ship.

"The rules of engagement aboard a U.S. warship are set by its
captain following Navy guidelines. Pentagon officials have
declined to discuss publicly the specific rules in effect aboard
the Cole, but senior officers said in congressional testimony
that the ship had filed a detailed security plan, which they
believe was followed."

http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg54740.html

I've been a military commander and I'm quite sure Lippold had no orders telling him he could not shoot first.

If those are the orders he gave his crew, he fucked up.

The bullshit about the ROE was an attempt to smear Clinton. But the "don't shoot first" order came from Lippold.

As a result of the DOD Cole investigation, which was completed after Bush was President, the Pentagon guidance on ROE was not changed.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/cole20010109.html

[fasttense]

60. You tell them tabasco!

Lippold sounded more like a politician than a Navy Officer to me.

I bet his tune would change if he had been tortured by the enemy.

[The Second Stone]

66. I'm surprised that this disgrace shows his face in public

He let his sailors down and got them killed and let the country down. I'm surprised at how often the Navy does this. The Orion incident in 2001, the USS Iowa investigation, the USS Pueblo, the Liberty. Frankly, the Navy brass has disgraced the country quite a bit. And we just give them medals.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

54. Hey now,

they could have put a few across the bow, so to speak. Could have laid down fire in the path of the raft. Didn't have to shoot at the people. In the long run, getting forgiveness is easier than getting permission.
Rules or othewise, that should never have happened and it did. On his watch.

[midnight]

7. This kind of thinking is precisely why we don't need the

military telling the govt. how to set policy.

[Royal Sloan 09]

8. Court-martial

Can a Officer be charged with dissent or some other charges against following a lawful given orders from his CiC? Under the last resident of the white House it would have happened, so Obama can choose to play with the embedded military obstructionist or take them out of the service for their dissension.

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. Charged with dissent?

Anyway, the guy's retired.

[Psephos]

46. Last I checked around here, dissent is patriotic

let's keep it that way

btw, I completely disagree with the statement attributed to the commander

[slackmaster]

68. He's retired and therefore no longer subject to the UCMJ

:hi:

[Piewhacket]

11. More JTP crap. This guy isn't "news". Carol Rosenberg is a hack tool.

[bemildred]

12. Ah, the "Blown-up boat veterans for truth". nt

[Vickers]

63. Bwahahaha!

:thumbsup:

[gratuitous]

14. Oh yes, Commander Dumbass

Let us by no means let our policy be guided by such penny-ante and picayune considerations like the Constitution and our treaty obligations. Any problem that can't be blasted or tortured away just isn't worth the commander in chief's time, and should best be left to the unassailable judgment of our military officers.

Yeah, and let's talk about a "speedy" trial for a crime committed more than eight years ago. "Speed" doesn't seem to have been a real preoccupation of these extra-legal kangaroo tribunals to this point. At least, not until the accused have been properly beaten down and broken by indefinite detention and torture.

I wonder where the military hires all those snappy-looking folks to star in their endless commercials?

[Solly Mack]

15. a speedy trial has never been about the publics interest

it's about the accused... the right to a speedy trial for the accused...not the public...the accused.

And any judge at GTMO has a lot of nerve talking about speedy trials...considering how long the people there have been detained without charges and without rights.

Suddenly....wanting to have a speedy trial? Snort.

As for Lippold......who has been quiet for how long now? And now he's got something to say?

Snort

[Karenina]

17. FIRE HIM IMMEDIATELY.

[Solly Mack]

21. As President, Obama has the say in how MC's go (or don't go)

Now, Congress has to grant that framework - and right now there is a military commissions act (of 2006) - bullshit act though it is....which gives Obama the final say...so Obama could replace the judge... and as CinC he can strip the man of his commission. In fact, if the retired officer hasn't resigned his commission when he retired (and an officer doesn't have to), Obama can resign that commission for him.

[Karenina]

45. Frankly, I think he should do so IMMEDIATELY.

This *dweeb is just waving his *dick around! OFF WITH ITS HEAD!!! :evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

69. He can't be fired

He's retired.

[EFerrari]

20. Exactly. Where has he been for the last 8 years? n/t

[Solly Mack]

22. Cheering torture would be my guess

Considering his contempt for human rights

[FarCenter]

31. Sailing a desk at the Pentagon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Lippold

He's probably more than a little bitter.

[EFerrari]

37. He's been stiffed all these years, that I can understand.

But Guantanamo has been a disaster for our national security and he knows that, so that part is just dishonest.

[UTUSN]

16. Did this a-hole have enough Watches posted to avoid his crew's loss of lives?!1 n/t

[Hobarticus]

65. Nope. Matter of fact, he's lucky he kept his commission...n/t

[SteelPenguin]

18. I mean why not

Why the hell would we decide what to do based on things as ludicrous as human rights, and the law? We should be able to arrest anyone, anywhere in the world, and hold them indefinitely without trial. How could that POSSIBLY endanger the american people.

:sarcasm:

[Enthusiast]

19. Cmdr. Lippold is just plain wrong!

I'm so glad he is not in charge. We had enough of this bullshit for eight years. It is counterproductive.

[GinaMaria]

23. ''We shouldn't make policy decisions based on human rights ...

this from someone who fights to protect our freedom? Yikes

[FiveGoodMen]

38. "this from someone who fights to protect our freedom?"

I think they just fight to be king of the hill.

Doesn't seem like any of it is really meant to help us.

[Joey Liberal]

26. Fuck Cmdr. Lippold nt

[No Elephants]

27. Whoever asked for Lippold's opinion was a total jerk. He is not an expert in policy or in

foreign relations. If that was Carol Rosenberg, she should have to explain why she is making it appear that his ramblings deserve bandwidth.

Lippold is also a total jerk:


We should consider what is best for the American people, which is not to jeopardize those who are fighting the war on terror — or even more adversely impact the families who have already suffered loses as a result of the war."

Nothing about obeying international law and treaties jeopardizes those who are fighting any war, nor the families. To the contrary, violating treaties and international law endangers our troops and lowers our standing in the world. McCain and others are of the same view.

"I don't think we should close Guantanamo Bay until we have some process in place, until we understand the impact of closing it, until there is a much more robust review by the international community on how to deal with these detainees," he said. "To bring them to the U.S. and give them the same constitutional rights that we as American citizens have earned is an affront to the decency of these families and should absolutely not be allowed."

Obama is not closing GTMO precipitously. He is doing it very thoughtfully. On the other than, the families of those on the Cole probably have this burned into their brains and hearts:

"Lippold's own pronouncements in the case are ironic. A Navy inquiry questioned whether Lippold had taken appropriate measures to prevent an attack on the vessel. No one was in the ship's command center when the suicide boat rammed into the Cole's side, there were no lookouts on deck, and no planning had been undertaken for such an eventuality. Lippold, however, was not disciplined and was allowed to keep his command."

[MilesColtrane]

28. Sorry Mr. Lippold, but the Constitution is back in effect in this country.

You remember...that thing you swore to protect against all enemies?

If you don't like it, you can always move somewhere where you feel safer.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

50. I'm glad the Constitution is safe, including the 2nd Amendment.

[madrchsod]

29. as commander of the cole it was his responsibility for it`s safety.

he is directly responsible for not putting in place security measures to avoid the attack and the death of his sailors.

to bad he did`t keep his criticisms of our legal system that he once defended to himself. he exposed his failure

[bowens43]

30. wow,what a mindless idiot.

jackasses like this should have no place in our military.

[Bette Noir]

32. Nobody says suspected terrorists are going to be released onto the streets.

The point is to treat everyone fairly and justly, in accordance with our laws and traditions.

This means proven terrorists stay locked up, and innocent people turned in for bounties go home.

But it'll take honest trials, not presided over by kangaroos, to tell which is which.

[struggle4progress]

51. Actually, the Bush approach really p!$$3d off Yemen, so Yemen let most of the Cole suspects go

Three page WaPo story from last year:

Probe of USS Cole bombing unravels
U.S. efforts frustrated as plotters are freed in Yemen
By Craig Whitlock
updated 11:22 a.m. ET, Sun., May. 4, 2008
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24449741/

[asksam]

33. He's a fascist Rethug...

... who cares what he thinks.

[zbdent]

34. shouldn't he be bit*hing about why the mastermind of that attack

was left free by the Bush administration, and, in fact, ObL's henchmen were left alone by the FBI because the FBI was pulled to investigate missing "W" keys, Xeroxed copies of gluteus muscles, and Chandra Levy?

and why the head of the organization which pulled off the biggest terrorist attack in the US history was left to walk around a free man for over 7 years?

[mamameow]

35. why

why should these soldiers, from the top brass to the lower grunts, think they are safe where ever they go? this government put them there and to think they would not be targets, is ridiculous. waiving the american flag in a foreign country invites trouble and that is just the way it is. to not close gitmo makes us even bigger targets. there will always be terrorists willing to take down an american, we just need to be smarter and less belligerent.

[treestar]

39. We can't go outside the Constitution

when deciding what is "best for the American people." Just what was this guy fighting for? It wasn't our country.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

49. Absolutely, including the 2nd Amendment of course.

[frylock]

40. this fucking idiot allowed a zodiac loaded with explosives blow a hole in his ship..

who gives two fucking shits what he thinks?

[buckrogers1965]

42. Well, then as a former Army officer I guess my opinion counts as much as his.

And I say that the first two things we need to consider on any policy is human rights and legality. Human rights and the law should be the most important consideration for any policy.

Ignoring these makes us inhumane perpetrators of international war crimes.

How can being hated world wide make us safer?

[IndianaGreen]

43. Well, Captain Kurt of the Imperial German Navy has spoken!

Let's have us a Fuhrer with absolute power so that we are all safe!

What a fascist moron, a captain derelict in his duty to take the necessary precautions to protect his crew while in Yemen.

[daleo]

44. Yes, what do the American people need with human rights

Or legal rights. I mean, what is this, 1776?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

53. To the Commander I say;

how the hell did those guys get close enough to your ship to begin with? You were negligent in YOUR duty sir. Please don't presume to tell the President how to conduct the affairs of the nation. You are not qualified.

[ohio2007]

56. What would you say to the Cdr of the USS Stark and USS Vincennes

Damned if you do
damned if you don't ?


http://www.economicexpert.com/a/USS:Vincennes:CG:49.htm




http://www.usswaddell.com/History/stark/uss_stark.htm



Why wouldn't you expect an attack on the USS Cole taking on fuel in this place ?

[ohio2007]

55. No to Gitmo trials and now "all stop" on this case that has been sitting since Bill Clinton was CiC

Lippold was responding to the decision by a U.S. military judge in Guantanamo to reject a request by Pentagon lawyers to delay next week's scheduled arraignment of Abd el Rahim al Nashiri, a Saudi Arabian who's charged with helping orchestrate the October 2000 suicide bombing of the Cole. The bombing killed 17 U.S. sailors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing

what kind of sensitive talks are going on in Saudi Arabia with links so close to this trial ? When do the statute of limitations run out on this eight year old investigation ?

[SKKY]

58. He's retired. HE CAN SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS! EVEN IF HE'S WRONG!

We can't applaud generals who came out against the Bush administration and then blast guys who come out against the Obama administration. It's hypocritical folks. We're better than this!

[Zavulon]

64. It's not hypocritical if

we're on the right side of the issue. By your logic, we can't criticize statements made by the party who doesn't control the White House, either, because we didn't do it when Bush was fucking up the country.

Sorry, no sale.

[Blue_Tires]

59. that bolded quote speaks for itself

the reporter should have read it back to him and asked him to (literally) dig deeper

[tuckessee]

61. Why is the Cole bombing even considered a "terrorist" act?

Seems to me it was a fair precision strike against a legimate military target. It may have been an act of war but it wasn't terrorism.

[ohio2007]

62. You think B.Clinton should have declared war on Yemen instead of going through legal channels ?

You could say it happened inside the 12 mile limit of a soverign nation but some may argue differently


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884893.html

"they" need to put these characters on trial based on the faulty evidence or throw it out of the courts
imo
I'm sure lack of evidence will let them go free.


http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=3.0.2722129767
You can't judge them by their words even though the threats seem rather idle
:sarcasm:

[Angleae]

67. Precision strike by what nation/military?

It was done by people not affiliated with any nation's government, therefore "terrorists".

[and-justice-for-all]

70. ''We shouldn't make policy decisions based on human rights and legal advocacy groups,'' Oh reallly?!

in that case he can go fuck himself!!...CLOSE GITMO NOW!!