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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:42 PM
Original message
Nazi angel of death Josef Mengele 'created twin town in Brazil'
Source: Telegraph

Nazi angel of death Josef Mengele 'created twin town in Brazil'
The Nazi doctor Josef Mengele is responsible for the astonishing number of twins in a small Brazilian town, an Argentine historian has claimed.

By Nick Evans in Buenos Aires
Last Updated: 8:20PM GMT 21 Jan 2009



One in five pregnancies in the small Brazilian town have resulted in
twins - most of them blond haired and blue eyed

The steely hearted "Angel of Death", whose mission was to create a master race fit for the Third Reich, was the resident medic at Auschwitz from May 1943 until his flight in the face of the Red Army advance in January 1945.

His task was to carry out experiments to discover by what method of genetic quirk twins were produced and then to artificially increase the Aryan birthrate for his master, Adolf Hitler.

Now, a historian claims, Mengele's notorious experiments may have borne fruit.

For years scientists have failed to discover why as many as one in five pregnancies in a small Brazilian town have resulted in twins most of them blond haired and blue eyed.

But residents of Candido Godoi now claim that Mengele made repeated visits there in the early 1960s, posing at first as a vet but then offering medical treatment to the women of the town.



Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/...
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mengele is a demonstration of what happens when genuis is unrestrained by ethics.
The man was a greater monster than Hitler in many respects. Hitler just came up with ideas and told others to carry them out. Mengele was a bit more hands on.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. In Brazil, he may have had more than his hands on.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. I have no idea why people choose to describe him as genius.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. It's not necessarily flattery - if his IQ is/was over 140, he
would be considered a genius.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. What a wonderfully ironic comment.
Given Nazis, and their preponderance for IQ tests and eugenics.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. I don't know anything about that...
Just that if you score 140 or better on an IQ test, you can get into Mensa.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. What is it about Mengele that strikes you as intelligent?
What work or experiment that he did makes you think "oh, that was clever."
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Don't even try that with me.
I did not say that Mengele was clever or that I followed his experiments.

I stated what I know as fact - that most people who care about this sort of thing put a genius IQ at 140. Some put it at 170.

How you get that I support Nazis out of that, I don't know. But if you still think so, kiss my mixed-race ass and get out of my face, there's no helping you.
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The Second Stone Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. And I always thought I was just a bit short
of genius level at 150, but no more. I am The Second Stone. Genius. No. The Second Stone, Super Genius.
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Genius is never evil...
Evil is just evil and Mengele was/is evil. Some have disputed his death and believe he may still be alive. He moved to Brazil in 1960.

Interesting about the twins. Which raises questions about what other experiments he may have conducted. The book by Ira Levin about the Boys from Brazil was fictional but also based on beliefs by some that he intended to "resurrect" Hitler by cloning him.

Little is known about his life in Brazil except "stories" told by those he supposedly lived with. Living on a farm here. Managing a farm there. It may have been a ruse. He was using the identity of an Austrian who was still alive when he supposedly died. That may not have been his only identity. So he may still be alive.


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Wabbajack_ Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. DNA confirms he is/was dead
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. That Sounds Like An Apologia
For unethical researchers who only care about where the next grant is coming from.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Mengle is a criminal mind.
Like Bush and chainy.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Mengele in Paraguay/Bush to Paraguay . . .
Mengele did Hitler's evil bidding --

To think that those yesterday or today who want to dominate others are not

concerned with labor and falling populations would be naive.

Infertility treatments are creating a "twin" population in America -- unless

I'm seeing double/?????

And, infertility treatments seem headed towards making MULTIPLE births normal.

Anyone seen "Jon & Kate" . .. ?

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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. If it makes anyone feel better, here's a newscast confirming his death
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 05:24 PM by hadrons
I youtubed it a couple of months ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m46WUDwxxpA

Mengele was obessed with dwarfs too
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nickyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. I cringe just seeing his name - a few years back, I read a book on
the concentration camps. On the first page was a quote, all by itself. It said, "They were ALL doctors" - Holocaust survivor.

One of the scariest single quotes I've ever read -

Thanks for posting this Judy Lynn -

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Cronopio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Check out "The Nazi Doctors" by Robert Jay Lifton.
It describes in detail the layers of rationalizations used by the doctors in the concentration camps to get them through the workday.

There are some disturbing similarities between their culture and the "profit at any cost" corporate culture today.
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I have that book... it's very creepy.
My boyfriend likes to tell people about my "light bedtime reading material".

The "treatments" described in the book are unspeakably horrific.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. I also detest the name. Repulsive monster. n/t
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. 'Boys from Brazil' as reality?
:scared:
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Where have you been for the past eight years?
His greatest achievement was George W Bush. Who do you think taught the young George how to stick firecrackers in the mouths of frogs and then light the firecrackers and toss the frogs in the air and watch them explode? And he didn't die. He came here and took a new name. Dick Cheney. Why no one could ever find him.

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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. I knew it!
Evil bastards never die...
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demoborn47 Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. WHAT THE WHAT???
That is just too freakin creepy to get my head around.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bizarre. But, it makes sense. Gregory Peck chills my bones in "The Boys From Brazil"
What an actor. What a bizarre story you posted. Recommended.

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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. Looks like the Farkle family
with their "friend and trusted neighbor" Joe Mengele
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Wait, wait, wait. Hold up. I love tales of supernatural Nazi experiments as much as the next guy...
..but usually they're confined to HellBoy. I read both the snippet and the whole article and I still don't know what the fuck is going on- what's being asserted. So more people have twins in this town than anywhere else, and the twins are blonde-haired and blue-eyed and there is suspicion that Mengele somehow had a....ahem...a "hand" in it?

 Mengele is looooooong dead so how are these (presumably Paraguayan) parents giving birth to children with Northern European features? Or are they? Because there are lots of parts of South America where the people are just as "white" and as blue-eyed as you'd find in any Scandanavian festival in America.

 But, I mean, the big puzzler of this story would seem to be that the parents are having children who don't look like them. Otherwise, what's the big fucking whoop except for the higher incidence of twins?

 Was Mengele rubbing special Nazi Twin Oil on coochies and tweeters down there which are now cooching and tweeting out little blonde-haired blue-eyed kids from otherwise brown coochies and tweeters?

 CAN YOU EVEN MAKE COOCHIES AND TWEETERS DO THIS SORT OF THING?

 Yet more proof that Mengele was obviously a disturbed yet brilliant.

 Brilliant: He's got his hands down everyone's pants. Ok, that's debatable but you'll debate me if it is.

 Disturbed: The best thing he can think of while tweeter-cooch handling is to try to twist (metaphorically, of course) these coochies and tweeters to diabolic ends?

 Is there no justice in the universe?

 Will coochies and tweeters ever regain trust for their handlers, both foreign and domestic?

 Why isn't a Cooch Tweeter the name of a musical instrument by now?

 Is this elevator going up or down? Feels like down...

Dizzily yours,

PB
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. dizzy here too
I tried, but couldn't figure out how to say/ask what you did. So I gave up. :)

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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
39. It says in the article there was a community of ex-pat Germans
living in this town.

I would assume that the twins are children of that community or else ex-Nazi men married to local women.

Several of my friends in China were white men married to Chinese women who had blonde haired, blue eyed kids whose coloring got darker as they got older. If you look in the picture, the parents and grandparents have dark hair and only the pre-schoolers are blonde. So maybe they'll have darker hair when they grow up.
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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. I know from a reliable source . . .
that potential wives of members of the SS had undergo certain scientific scrutiny before the marriage was allowed.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. The article said it was a predominantly German community. Thus, perhaps, the blue-eyed blondes.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. yes, he did not create the blue-eyed blondes from the "Brazilian" population
throughout latin america there are communities of Germans, Amish, Mennonites and the other insular type groups.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-09 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
51. Don't worry. I took something...
I can see things no one else can see.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. Creepy.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
19. isn't argentina pretty heavily populated by europeans from all over?
now i don't know about the high rate of twins -- but blond and blue eyed wouldn't be odd in a country that has french, german, irish, english immigrants in the kinds of numbers that argentina has.
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Sultana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Yes
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. though the town in the story is in Brazil, and in Southern Brazil
the people are more european looking including the blonds. didn't see too many natural blondes in Argentina but yes there are, probably in particular regions more than others.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ummm..... how did he do that, exactly? /nt
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. Medically, I can't see it
Unless he put some long-lasting hormones in the water supply that makes women super-ovulate. What would be a whole lot more likely would be a "founder's effect", if some European immigrant with tendency to conceive twins settled there. Since that tendency alone would make her descendants more numerous, it wouldn't take long for much of the population to carry it.

Only reason why most of us don't have it is that twin pregnancies are much risker for the moms and babies, though with modern medical care those risks are greatly reduced.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. A "founder's effect" does sound like the most likely explanation.
Twins do occur with greater frequency in other populations too.
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The abyss Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
28. Judi Lynn
What is your take on this story? What is the local take on this?

Thanks!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I'll look around for something on this when I get some decent time to do it. Here's some information
on a sect in Chile, one of two operated by a former Nazi, Paul Schaeffer. Mengele was connected to this one, Colonia Dignidad, as well. It was learned much later that they were useful to Nixon-installed monster puppet Augusto Pinochet, after they destabilized then destroyed the democratically elected President of Chile, Salvador Allende, by torturing, even killing leftists for him.

Here's a quick google grab:
Villa Baviera

Villa Baviera (Spanish: Bavaria Village), formerly known as Colonia Dignidad (Spanish: Dignidad Colony) is a Chilean hamlet in Parral Commune, Linares Province, Maule Region. It is located in an isolated area of central Chile, 35 km southeast of the city of Parral, on the north bank of the Perquilauqun River. It was founded by a group of German immigrants led by ex-Nazi Paul Schfer in 1961 (Infield, p.206). The full name of the colony was Sociedad Benefactora y Educacional Dignidad (English: Dignidad Charitable and Educational Society), like its precursor, which the immigrants started in the mid-1950s. The population of the place was 198 in the census of 2002.

At its greatest extent, Villa Baviera was home to some three hundred German and Chilean residents and covered 137 square kilometers (53 square miles). The main economic activity of the colony was agriculture, but it also contained a school, a free hospital, two airstrips, a restaurant, and even a power station. The colony was secretive, surrounded by barbed wire fences, searchlights, and a watchtower, and contained secret weapon caches (including a tank). It was described alternately as a cult, or as a group of 'harmless eccentrics'. In recent years, however, some facts have emerged about the disturbing history of the colony. With Villa Grimaldi, it is considered as one of the most important detention and torture centers of Augusto Pinochet's era, and with links to the Chilean Secret Police DINA (Infield pp.205).

Nazi ties
Both the CIA and Simon Wiesenthal stated evidence of the presence of Nazi Concentration Camp doctor Josef Mengele, known as the "Angel of Death" for his cruel experiments on human subjects, at the colony (Infield p.207).


Accusations of abuse
Some defectors from the colony have portrayed it as a cult in which leader Paul Schfer held ultimate power. They claim that the residents were never allowed to leave the colony, and that they were strictly segregated by gender. Television, telephones and calenders were banned. Residents worked wearing Bavarian peasant garb and sang German folk songs. Sex was banned, with some residents forced to take drugs to reduce their desires. Drugs were also administered as a form of sedation, mostly to young girls, but to males as well. Severe discipline in the forms of beatings and torture was commonplace: Schfer insisted that discipline was spiritually enriching.


Child molestation
Paul Schfer, a former Luftwaffe paramedic, was the founder and first leader ("Permanent Uncle") of Colonia Dignidad. He had left Germany in 1961, after being accused of sexually abusing two boys. On May 20, 1997, he fled Chile, pursued by authorities investigating charges that he had molested 26 children of the colony. In March, 2005, he was arrested in Argentina and extradited to Chile. (Schfer is also wanted for questioning about the disappearance in 1985 of Boris Weisfeiler, an American Jewish mathematics professor of Russian birth.)

Twenty-two other members of Colonia Dignidad, including Dr. Hartmut Hopp, the second-in-command, have been found guilty of aiding the child molestation.


Torture
Investigations by Amnesty International and the Chilean National Commission for Truth and Reconciliation have verified that Colonia Dignidad was used by DINA, the Chilean secret police, as a concentration camp for the detention of political prisoners during Augusto Pinochet's dictatorial rule of Chile. Most accounts date this use of the colony the period between 1973 and 1977, but precise dates are not known.

The son of DINA head Manuel Contreras claims that his father and Pinochet visited Colonia Dignidad in 1974 and that his father and Schfer were good friends. The current leader of Villa Baviera admits that torture took place within the old colony but alleges that Villa Baviera is a new entity today.

In March 2005, former DINA and CIA agent Michael Townley acknowledged the link between Colonia Dignidad and DINA as well as a relationship between Colonia Dignidad and the Bacteriological War Army Laboratory. He spoke of biological experiments imposed on detainees there with the help of the Laboratory and another lab that was situated on Va Naranja de Lo Curro hill <1>.

In 2005, German-born Gisela Seewald, who had arrived in Colonia Dignidad in 1963, confessed before Judge Jorge Zepeda that she had given psychiatric treatment to children because Schfer assured her they were "mentally ill".
More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Dignidad

I have heard about another German colony in Paraguay, which also housed some American missionaries, if I recall it correctly. I'll take a look around for more on that, as well. Paraguay's genocidal Nazi-supporting 35 year long dictator, Alfredo Stroessner who laid waste to many native Paraguayan people himself gave have to Mengele in his own country, and hosted others, as well, including, I believe, Klaus Barbi, who, himself was all over South America, and even worked in the Bolivian government for some time. Barbi was well connected to the U.S. CIA, unfortunately for people who believe in and respect clean, non-malignant government.

I'll look for more info. and post it when I find it, in short bursts of time when they become available.

I really want to know far more about this, myself, after being lucky enough to hear from one well-traveled American his real experience of having walked into a small coffee house in Paraguay or Uruguay, I believe, finding himself face to face with Klaus Barbi.

Also, speaking of torture, don't forget American former police chief from Indiana, Daniel Mitrione, who was hired originally by the Eisenhower administration's State Department, worked in Brazil, then Uruguay later, working hard at his craft and life's calling torture, was murdered (although was never tortured) and Nixon threw him a huge funeral, sending his press secretary, and his nephew, David Eisenhower to attend. Jerry Lewis and Frank Sinatra held a benefit for the wife and Mitrione's NINE children so they wouldn't be destitute, and forced to live on only a torturer's social security.

Will add more later.
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The abyss Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Judi, thank you!
I am looking for the story behind the story

Im not questioning the idea or concept. All concepts that have been posted here are possible.

This, tells like a repeat of Fargagos Aftermath

What is being implied here? Are we, the reading masses, supposed to find justification for a newly devised hunt to clean out SA of ancient Nazis from the early portion of the last century?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
31. Boys from Brazil
They were Hitler clones.

Who knows what this evil man was up to, but he was protected by many people over the years. Too bad Israel didn't get to him like it did Eichman.
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The abyss Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. IIRC Eichman was working in a Volkswagen plant as a worker bee.
Mengele appeared to have wondered around unscathed and with the ability to cross borders unannounced.

Judis link has got me digging back into the old Farago material. Wasnt Farago burned as an asset in the early 70s shortly after Aftermath was published? Or perhaps he burned himself? I cant recall the details.

There is no doubt that there is an agenda here
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. Mengele's Wiki says the subject of twins was his pet project. Who knew?
Human experimentation
Mengele used Auschwitz as an opportunity to continue his research on heredity, using inmates for human experimentation. He was particularly interested in identical twins; they would be selected and placed in special barracks. He also recruited Berthold Epstein, a Jewish pediatrician. As a doctor, Epstein proposed to Mengele a study into treatments of the disease called Noma that was noted for particularly affecting children from the camp.<6>

While the exact cause of Noma remains uncertain, it is now known that it has a higher occurrence in children suffering from malnutrition and a lower immune system response. Many develop the disease shortly after contracting another illness such as measles or tuberculosis. Mengele tried to prove that Noma was caused by racial inferiority.<7>

Mengele took an interest in physical abnormalities discovered among the arrivals at the concentration camp. These included dwarfs, notably the Ovitz family - the children of a Romanian artist, of whom seven of the 10 members were dwarfs. Prior to their deportation they toured in Eastern Europe as the Lilliput Troupe. He often called them "my dwarf family"; to him they seemed to be the perfect expression of "the abnorm".

"Mengele occupied his time with other numerous acts of the most base cruelty, including the vivisection of infants; the castration of boys and men without the use of an anesthetic; and the administering of high-voltage electric shocks to women inmates under the auspices of testing their endurance. On one occasion Mengele even sterilized a group of Polish nuns with an X-ray machine, leaving the women horribly burned."<8>

Mengele's experiments also included attempts to change eye color by injecting chemicals into children's eyes, various amputations of limbs and other brutal surgeries. Rena Gelissen's account of her time in Auschwitz details certain experiments performed on female prisoners around October 1943. Mengele would experiment on the chosen girls, performing sterilization and shock treatments. Most of the victims died, either due to the experiments or later infections. Once, Mengele's assistant rounded up 14 pairs of Roma twins during the night. Mengele placed them on his polished marble dissection table and put them to sleep. He then proceeded to inject chloroform into their hearts, killing them instantly. Mengele then began dissecting and meticulously noting each and every piece of the twins' bodies.<1>

At Auschwitz, Mengele did a number of twin studies. After the experiment was over, these twins were usually murdered and their bodies dissected. He supervised an operation by which two Gypsy children were sewn together to create conjoined twins; the hands of the children became badly infected where the veins had been resected, this also caused Gangrene. <1>

The subjects of Mengele's research were better fed and housed than ordinary prisoners and were, for the time being, safe from the gas chambers.<9>When visiting his child subjects, he introduced himself as "Uncle Mengele" and offered them sweets. Some survivors remember that despite his grim acts, he was also called "Mengele the protector".<10> On several occasions he killed subjects simply to be able to dissect them afterwards.<11> Mengele was almost fanatical about drawing blood from twins, mostly identical twins. He is reported to have bled some to death this way.<1>

The book Children of the Flames, by Lucette Matalon Lagnado and Shiela Cohn Dekel, chronicles Mengele's medical experimental activities on approximately 3,000 twins who passed through the Auschwitz death camp during World War II until its liberation at the end of the war. Only a few of the twins survived; 60 years later, they came forward about the special privileges they were given in Auschwitz owing to Mengele's interest in twins, and how as a result they have suffered, as the children who survived his medical experiments and injections.<1>

Auschwitz prisoner Alex Dekel has said: "I have never accepted the fact that Mengele himself believed he was doing serious work not from the slipshod way he went about it. He was only exercising his power. Mengele ran a butcher shop major surgeries were performed without anesthesia. Once, I witnessed a stomach operation Mengele was removing pieces from the stomach, but without any anesthetic. Another time, it was a heart that was removed, again, without anesthesia. It was horrifying. Mengele was a doctor who became mad because of the power he was given. Nobody ever questioned him why did this one die? Why did that one perish? The patients did not count. He professed to do what he did in the name of science, but it was a madness on his part".<12>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
35. mengele: born 1911.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
37. The accounts of Mengele's experiments don't really suggest that his methods were likely
to produce real insights, of the sort that might produce a medical treatment leading to an increased rate of identical twin births

The fellow was basically a sadist, who indulged his perversion under the guise of "medical experiments" in the context of the extermination camps
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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. agreed. his "research" didn't even look productive, much less "genius"
Edited on Thu Jan-22-09 01:52 PM by enki23
more likely, it's a fairly inbred village. the propensity to have twins varies between different populations. this may be a more-or-less genetically isolated, small population which happens to have a large, heritable tendency to give birth to twins. interesting, yes. jumping to "it was mengele!!!11"? no. may as well say aliens did it.
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steaa Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Your post just reminded me..
of the Unit 731 in Harbin, China during WW2.
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The abyss Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. I apologize
I did not see your comment regarding the Japanese research unit prior to my last post about Shiro. Yes, excellent research material here!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
47. JanuC.I.A. Said to Rebuff Congress on Nazi Files
January 30, 2005
C.I.A. Said to Rebuff Congress on Nazi Files
By DOUGLAS JEHL

ASHINGTON, Jan. 29 - The Central Intelligence Agency is refusing to provide hundreds of thousands of pages of documents sought by a government working group under a 1998 law that requires full disclosure of classified records related to Nazi war criminals, say Congressional officials from both parties.

Under the law, the C.I.A. has already provided more than 1.2 million pages of documents, the vast majority of them from the archives of its World War II predecessor, the Office of Strategic Services. Many documents have been declassified, and some made public last year showed a closer relationship between the United States government and Nazi war criminals than had previously been understood, including the C.I.A.'s recruitment of war criminal suspects or Nazi collaborators.

For nearly three years, the C.I.A. has interpreted the 1998 law narrowly and rebuffed requests for additional records, say Congressional officials and some members of the working group, who also contend that that stance seems to violate the law.

These officials say the agency has sometimes agreed to provide information about former Nazis, but not about the extent of the agency's dealings with them after World War II. In other cases, it has refused to provide information about individuals and their conduct during the war unless the working group can first provide evidence that they were complicit in war crimes.

The agency's stance poses a sharp test between the C.I.A.'s deep institutional reluctance to make public details about any intelligence operations and the broad mandate set forth in the law to lift the veil about relationships between the United States government and Nazi war criminals.

The dispute has not previously been made public. Critics of the C.I.A.'s stance, including all three private citizens who are members of the working group, said they were disclosing the dispute now in hopes of resolving the impasse by March, when the working group's mandate is to expire.

"I think that the C.I.A. has defied the law, and in so doing has also trivialized the Holocaust, thumbed its nose at the survivors of the Holocaust and also at Americans who gave their lives in the effort to defeat the Nazis in World War II," said Elizabeth Holtzman, a former congresswoman from New York and a member of the group. "We have bent over backward; we have given them every opportunity to comply."

More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/30/international/europe/...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Network of top scientists helped 'Angel of Death' Mengele
Krysia Diver in Stuttgart guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 22 March 2005 09.57 GMT

The "Angel of Death" Josef Mengele, who was long thought to have been the black sheep of Germany's scientists under the Nazi regime, was in fact supported by a network of elite researchers, new research has revealed.
Mengele founded a kindergarten and played the violin to children in a concentration camp, but also injected the hearts of children with chloroform, infected them with typhus and destroyed women's fallopian tubes with acid.

His catalogue of horror stories also included injecting children's eyes with ink, experimenting on people with cleft palates and poisoning 900 sets of twins.

Although his deeds are well documented, assumptions that he was one of a few who pushed back the boundaries of science for his own pleasure have been shattered. Six years of research led by a political scientist, Dr Susanne Heim, has revealed that the Angel of Death was not alone.

Archives have previously revealed that Mengele had assistants such as the Hungarian pathologist and prisoner of war Miklos Nyiszli, who said: "I would bathe the corpses of cripples and dwarves in calcium chloride and cook them in large pots so that their skeletons could be preserved in the Museum of the Third Reich."

But records have been unearthed that Mengele's work was supported by elite researchers attached to the Kaiser-Wilhelm Institute, whose scientists have been awarded more than 20 Nobel prizes.

Although their personal goal was not essentially to create a super-race for Adolf Hitler, they did not object to the scientific freedom that the dictator bestowed on them. Indeed, Mengele's supervisor for his PhD was the internationally acclaimed scientist Otmar von Verschuer, who was renowned for his research into twins.

The Max-Planck Institute - formerly the Kaiser-Wilhelm Institute - decided in 1997 to fund research into its murky past. A spokesman for the institute said: "No goal in research can justify crossing ethical boundaries.

"We wanted to discover how and why the limits of science were crossed and why there was such a blur between animal and human trials. We appointed a group of independent historians to get to the bottom of a mystery that has lain dormant for a long time."

The director of research for the Berlin-based project was Dr Heim. She told The Guardian last night: "It was formerly believed that scientists in Germany were oppressed by the Nazi regime, that there were only a few guilty people. But in truth, these doctors were in paradise.

"The distinction between politics and science was hazy and doctors had the freedom to do as they liked, so long as they could prove that their goal was to breed a super-race of strong soldiers for the advancement of warfare."

More:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/mar/22/research.ge...



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The abyss Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Great Stuff Judi!
I would have to guess coincidence has to be the right answer ;-)

Did not some of the medical personnel on trail at Nuremberg site an American study conducted in the 30s where by people were infected with Malaria (unbeknownst) as an excuse for their conduct and experiments?

Another name people should get familiar with is Dr. Ishii Shiro. He headed up the Japanese unit 731. I believe the U.S. government offered him a deal go to work for us, or stand up against that concrete wall over there.

At one time I had a bunch of stuff regarding Shiro, cant find any of it right now.

P.S. Thanks for the follow up post!
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
52. Mengele traveled to Switzerland in 1960 to visit his son, Rolf,
and Rolf openly traveled to Brazil to visit with his father.

(snip)

WATCHING Rolf Mengele talk about his father in ''The Search for Mengele,'' a one-hour documentary film on Home Box Office at 8 tonight, the viewer hangs on to every word - spoken and unspoken - to find out what the son, who is a lawyer in Germany, really thinks about the Auschwitz doctor whose victims knew him as the ''angel of death.''

Choosing his words carefully, Dr. Josef Mengele's son says at the opening of the film, ''If they really wanted to get him, they could have, but there were long periods in his life when they did not want to get him.'' The ''they'' refers to the several governments, led by West Germany, that had an obligation to prosecute Mengele for his war crimes. In the middle of the documentary, without a trace of emotion, he says, ''I would have preferred another father.''

In 1960, Rolf discovered that the man he had once met in Zurich in the postwar years, and was told by an aunt was his ''Uncle Fritz,'' actually was his father. In 1977, Rolf openly went to visit his father in his hiding place in Brazil. (A viewer is led to wonder: why didn't the authorities follow his trail?) Mengele lived on a protected farm, surrounded by watchdogs. ''He looked old, small and a little bit broken,'' Rolf says.

At first, they avoided talking about Auschwitz and Mengele's personal role in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jews in the concentration camp. Under the guise of conducting medical research, first on living humans, including children, then on their corpses, Mengele received encouragement and approval from the German medical establishment. When the subject was raised by Rolf, his father ''exploded.'' Mengele turned on his son and said, ''How can you imagine that I could do such things - it's a lie, propaganda!'' Unrepentant, Mengele claimed that as a doctor he had actually ''helped'' to save many lives in the death camp.

more
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980CE0D9...
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
53. The author doesn't mention whether the twins are identical or fraternal.
An increased chance of having fraternal twins has a known genetic component, whereas identical twins are thought to be a random event.

If many of these twins are fraternal, then this phenomenon could be easily explained by members of the original population being women with a genetic predisposition for having twins (which was then passed down and expanded in this seemingly isolated population).

However, if this population has an increased probability of having identical twins, then that is really interesting. Perhaps there really is a genetic component of identical twinning, after all. This would be an ideal population in which to study that possibility.
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