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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:39 AM
Original message
Some troops unhappy about Obama pledge on gays
Source: Reuters

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Many U.S. troops in Iraq were overjoyed to see President Barack Obama take his oath, but some were unhappy about one thing the Democrat has promised to do: permit gay and lesbian soldiers to serve openly.

Obama said during his campaign he opposed a 1993 law stating that homosexuals are not eligible to work in the U.S. military, widely referred to as the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule.

...

Specialist Joseph Watson, from Texas, was "pretty excited" to see America's first black president sworn in, he said, after watching Obama's inauguration on a big TV screen at the dining hall of Forward Operating Base Prosperity, in Baghdad.

But the 30-year-old was a lot less excited about Obama's inclination to repeal the ban on gay men and women serving.

"Ah, I think that might cause a lot of problems," he said. "It's a big moral issue. It's giving the OK, saying that being gay is alright. Personally, I don't think being gay is OK."

Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUKTRE50K2KC2...
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. Personally
I don't think Spec. Watson is OK.
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norepubsin08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. watson is a fucking ignorant homophobic bigot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
59. And they don't keep you out of the military for that.
He should feel lucky...
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. Ask him about the women
Go look up the statistics on sexual harrassment of women in the military and then come back and tell me it's the gays that are the problem.

Course, Watson probably doesn't like them in the military either.
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. Good call !
:thumbsup:
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. I bet Watson likes porn
Especially the woman on woman scenes. But that is just a guess as to what Mr. Watson likes.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh?
"It's a big moral issue. It's giving the OK, saying that being gay is alright."

Well, son, being an armed invader in another country is the big moral issue. Being gay doesn't even compare.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. "It's a big moral issue."
How? How can this possibly be a moral issue?
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apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. No Shit. The Commander-in-Chief will give the soliers an order. Disobey and well... you know...
Stupid.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. Batshit crazy fundie madness also exists in the military, unfortunately.
Which tells me we're way overdue. Time for a change. Time for all of it to stop.

ENOUGH! NOW!
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. It appears to be pretty extensive, actually. nt
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
38. yeah
I am deeply disturbed by the spread of "christian" values in the service. While the military provides religious support and services to address the faith requirements of individuals serving, applying religious beliefs to military policy or doctrine is not appropriate, and I beleive may be illegal?

I dont care what you beleive. In my squad are you committed? Can I trust you? Are you concerned with my (and by extension "our") well being?

Jesus never cleaned my weapon, took any OP shift, maintained the trucks, or helped my young troops finally get a phone call in to their parents.

SGT PASTO
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
70. Welcome to DU Pasto!!
You nailed it....!!

Many major countries in the world have no problems with their gay and lesbian soldiars.

This argument that is noted is no different than we military tried to keep women and minorities from serving in combat postions.
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marasinghe Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
73. you tell 'em sarge.
these fundie warrior a*h*s should go back in time -
and, go tell the spartans.
or king david;
or alexander;
or julius caesar;
or the japanese samurai.

yeah - that's the ticket.
the super secret fabulous formula of the great warrior code is: gays can't fight.
sheesh.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. The Commander in Chief has spoken.
All citizens have a right to serve.
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Supply Side Jesus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. Get over it bigots
I'm sure you'll do just fine.
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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. Fuck 'em. Oh, wait...that's what they're afraid of.
Pity.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. God forbid men feel physically vulnerable. nt
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
71. Ohhhh....
Just had to go there. :evilgrin:

I'm still somewhat of the opinion that most homophobes are latent bisexuals.
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. The RW had no problem with the Brits fighting side by side
and they have no prohibition on gays serving openly.

The guy's insecure.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
62. The British had Lawrence of Arabia
they know that being gay and being a great soldier/ military leader are certainly NOT mutually exclusive ideas.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. Frankly, I don't care what the troops think about this issue. nt
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. And I don't think killing innocent civilians is OK
So, maybe we're even
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. Duh...
you'd think people in the military were different from the country the rest of us inhabit.
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Castleman Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well now, Joseph Watson
haven't you figured out by the overwhelming asskicking your kind of mindset took on Election Day that NOBODY GIVES A RAT'S ASS WHAT YOU THINK? Unless I'm very much mistaken, it's the United States Army, not the United States of Small Minded Bigots' Army, our army will be a true cross section of America, and THAT includes GAYS. Deal with it, and jeez, you might just come up with some snazzier uniforms.*

*Not intended as a slur against the GLBT community, merely a joke about the broad stereotype of the "typical" gay person.... :-)
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. Pssst Spec Watson, wake up and smell the MREs
You're already serving with gays and no one gives a rat's ass what you think.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. wow. what a douche bag.
i wonder how his forced-closet gay brothers and sisters in arms that cover his 6 feel about him now.

asshole.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
16. "It's giving the OK, saying that being gay is alright."
uh yeah - that is exactly what it is saying Watson, deal with it.

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
18. Is this the same "some people" that Faux News uses as a way to disseminate...
rumors, smears, and innuendo?
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
20. The army is about moral issues now. eh?
That "thou shall not kill" thing is really going to get in the way of bidness...
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
21. Note to Joseph Watson:
Gay people did not CHOOSE to be gay. They were created that way. The same way some people have brown eyes, some have blue. The same way some people are male, some female, some have red hair, others have brown. It's just the way it is.

However, you CHOSE to be a bigoted, judgemental prick about it. It was a conscious choice that you made.

In my book, YOU are the one with the problem, not the gays. Get over it.

Is it possible the temptation might be too much for you if the need for secrecy is removed? Perhaps there's a cute little number that you see every day that you wonder about, and if he were able to come out it would eliminate all doubt, removing yet another layer keeping you from doing what you really want to do. Could that be it? :shrug:

It often seems those who have the biggest problem with others being gay are also the ones with the biggest doubts about their own sexuality.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
22. Prepare to take orders from a new Commander in Chief, assholes.
What you personally think about gays has nothing to do with it. So fuck off.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
23. Even the conservative military folks I know don't have an issue with gays in the military. nt
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
25. Key word: some
There will always be "some" who don't agree with what Obama does. But there will also be a lot who do agree. It's a spin that makes it look like the military is against allowing openly gay men and women to serve. My guess is there are a lot of soldiers who don't have a problem with it.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
26. Too bad. You will salute your commander in chief, and obey his orders.
Or perhaps a court martial will help you change you mind.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
40. Well put
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
27. Isn't it interesting...
That those who vehemently opposed Clinton's "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy of 16 years ago are now the ones who are now clamoring to retain that policy?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
28. So? They'll learn an important life lesson.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
29. Like the racists in the military when it was integrated, he'll have to suck it up and deal.
:nopity:
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faulknercindy Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
31. Let me tell you what the real problem is in the military
all those buy strong guys don't want to have their asses stared at by gay folk. They do not want to be hit on or sexually harassed like they have done to women in the service for years. Having been in the army for ten years before I had the sense to escape that crap, they don't want to have to go through the stuff they put women through. Just my opinion.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
65. Of course, gay men and women have this thing called "restraint".
NT!

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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
34. Boo-fucking-hoo!
:nuke:
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
35. OK, so check it out
This is where leadership comes into play. As an NCO, and a squad leader, I would not have allowed such a mindset in my squad. Our battalion had lesbians, and Im quite sure gay males, while we served overseas. I never heard of a shortcomings remotely related to that. As far as I know, they served with as much distinction and integrity as I did.

If leadership was concerned about unit building, and morale, then they should commit to just that. They should not be concerned with peer acceptance, or the social hierarchy that is the bane of my military exisitence. Guess that means they arent really leaders, huh. That would be correct, but promoted nonetheless.

Since Bush came around, a full division of troops have been discharged because they were gay. Good idea right, because my army certainly doesnt need every able body possible.

The correct response to SPC Watson's "I dont think its OK" is "skip it sol, you're job is not to decide what's OK and what is not. Is this clear?" When you get a flustered, stuttering response, the soldier should be immediately ordered to produce his weapon for inspection, followed by every piece of gear he has been issued. A good NCO will find a dozen insufficiencies which can be addressed to illustrate that while he is pontificating about the lifestyle of another person, his combat effectiveness is less than optimal, which places the lives of everyone in his squad at risk. I loved that job.

I welcome _every and anyone_, especially in this time of operational tempo, to serve with distinction in my Army.

Word.

SGT PASTO
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Libertyfirst Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. You, Sir, should be a General. n/t
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
66. No offense, but I for one am glad we have less soldiers to kill innocent Iraqis.
Just pointing to the elephant in the room -- the illegal invasion and occupation of a country that never attacked us.

That said, I do admire your attitude.

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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
36. Some troops unhappy about Truman pledge on blacks
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 11:48 AM by davepc
SEOUL (Reuters) - Many U.S. troops in Korea were overjoyed to see President Harry Truman take his oath, but some were unhappy about one thing the Democrat has promised to do: permit black soldiers to serve along side whites.

Truman said during his campaign he opposed a 1863 law stating that blacks are not eligible to work in the U.S. military alongside their white counterparts, widely referred to as the "segregation" rule.

...

Specialist Joseph Watson, from Texas, was "pretty excited" to see America's newest president sworn in, he said, after listening to Trumans inauguration on a big radio at the dining hall of Forward Operating Base Prosperity, in Seoul.

But the 30-year-old was a lot less excited about Truman's inclination to repeal the ban on blacks serving alongside whites.

"Ah, I think that might cause a lot of problems," he said. "It's a big moral issue. It's giving the OK, saying that being integrated is alright. Personally, I don't think being integrated is OK."
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
37. and some troops are glad
very glad
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
39. I'm sure having blacks in the military was a big problem once
and you all got over that one extremely well, Mr. Watson. I'm sure you'll do the right thing again.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
42. tough shit. he should get over himself. not everyone wants to fuck him. n/t
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Stryguy Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
43. Shouldn't you be more concerned with..
If the guy next to you does his job correctly.. Whether it's loading a bomb on a plane or sitting in a foxhole keeping watch.

I'd be more concerned that the job is done correctly by an intelligent and able minded person than what gets them off.

As for Mr. Watson, It is a big moral issue isn't it. There are a lot of moral issues. The wonderful thing about America is that our morals don't have to be the same.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #43
67. Um, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, it's not a moral issue at all.
There is NOTHING WRONG with being gay.

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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
44. If you don't think being gay is OK
then don't be gay. Unless you ARE gay, of course.

:crazy:
rocknation
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
45. gay folk are already in the services --
if it happens -- you'll deal or get out.
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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. Agree and they are often the best of the best.
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buckrogers1965 Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. Only closet gays care about other people being gay.
The only people who care if someone else is gay are those with strong homosexual urges themselves. They aren't afraid of someone else's sexuality, they are afraid of their own.

Unfortunately there are going to be some brutal incidents as this policy is implemented, of these closet gays brutal beating their own gay brethren, in reaction to this policy.

The command staff need to prepare with training ahead of time to ease the transition and to enforce a no tolerance policy against any intolerance. Any violence should result in an immediate trial and long imprisonment at hard labor.

Anyone worried about being sexual harassed by gays... There are already long standing policies and training in place against sexual harassment. If you get propositioned, all you have to do is say, "No thanks," and if they keep it up, then goto your chain of command and it will be dealt with.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. If your pastor tells you every other Sunday that being gay disgusting to God, you
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 01:26 PM by No Elephants
might have an issue, even if you are not "confused" about your own orientation.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
47. When they reinstitute the draft it won't matter what these yahoos think!
We won't be beholden to an all volunteer military that we have to kow tow to in order to keep ourselves safe. They'll be in there for their tour of duty and they can like it or lump it!
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MotorCityMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
48. Don't think being gay is OK? Great! Don't be gay!
I refuse to act like I give a shit about what you think.

I've been OK with being gay since I was 12. AND after going through 18 years of Catholic upbringing.

I've said it before, I'll say it again; there are a hell of a lot easier ways to pick up guys than joining the military. I do believe Mr. Watson's heterosexual virtue will remain intact.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. "There are a hell of a lot easier way to pick up guys than joining the military."
Sing it, brother.

I got so tried of hearing, "The only reason you wimins join the service is to get men." Yeah right schmuck. I'm going to give up a fair share of my human rights and a lot of my civil ones to get to the likes of you all. Ego much, jerk?

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
49. How can Watson have moral issues about being gay, but no moral issues about
requiring gay people to lie while putting their lives, limbs and sanity on the line for you and me and the Watson family?
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
51. Oh, I have a solution for that.
Just invite all the homophobes to join the Straight Division, an infantry combat command which will be assigned to be the first unit committed to any fight, and the last to leave.

What, you pussies, you're men aren't you? What better way to prove that than by subjecting yourselves to combat and patrol duty for the rest of your service, or until you go insane or are maimed or killed.
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. I liek the idea
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
52. Personally, I don't think being Josph Watson "is alright"
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
54. Too f'in bad. Man up, soldier. -eom
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
55. If they are told to integrate with gay and lesbian soldiers, they may not say no.
We all appreciate what they do for us, but their commander in chief has final say in these matters.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
56. And I agree with others, that 'being gay' is only a moral issue if you believe 'straightness' hinges
upon repressing, controlling and denying pre-existing homosexual desires.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
57. Yeah, well a lot will be upset if he reneges on it too
So i'd much rather piss off the fundies than the gays who are willing to die for me.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
60. three fourths of this country disagrees with Specialist (T)Watson
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
63. IF you truly don't like someone being gay, wouldn't you rather know who they are?
This argument always amazes me. If you are a homophobe, wouldn't you rather have people be open about their sexual orientation so you didn't have to fear everyone?

Next argument, if you "don't think being gay is OK", then just don't "be gay". I wish some people would see that it is not all about continually having sex, sexual orientation I mean. Maybe if sexual orientation were open, and some of these sorts realized that their buddies were whatever, maybe they might see that it is not so scary of a thing.

I'd like a pony also, but truly wish that sexual orientation were not an issue.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
64. Fuck off, bigots. You lose.
NT!

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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
68. Hey! you just can't please every one, however 80%+ Americans support the man...
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
69. Gay's lose blood and life as do straights, the the fu*k over it...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
72. Only the fundies are unhappy
and we can do without them, and their evangelizing chaplains!
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
74. Hey Joey!! You don't have to be straight to fight for your country, just shoot straight.
GOP Senator Barry Goldwater said that.
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sam kane Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
75. Let's get the homophobes out of the military
There would be a lot fewer war crimes, I would put money on it!
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
76. Of course. Some troops are ignorant bigots.
Others are not.
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