Obama Pressed to Investigate Bush Era

[sabra]

Source: ABC News

ABC News’ Rick Klein Reports: President-elect Barack Obama has said he’s looking forward, not backwards.

But he’s facing intensifying pressure to check the rear-view mirror when it comes to alleged wrongdoing by the Bush administration.

New York Times columnist Paul Krugman writes Friday that if Obama doesn’t seek justice for possible crimes by the Bush administration, “this means that those who hold power are indeed above the law because they don’t face any consequences if they abuse their power.”

...

Also weighing in Friday is Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich. -- whom, it should be noted, has subpoena power in investigations of his own, as chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.

He touts a report he and his staff prepared, “Reining in the Imperial Presidency,” and which, at nearly 500 pages, is itself hard to rein in.

...

He said he understands the impulse to look only forward -- but thinks it’s the wrong course. He wants Congress and the Obama administration to launch major queries of the Bush years -- including an “independent criminal probe into whether any laws were broken in connection with these activities.”

Read more: http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/01/obama-pressed-...

[AzDar]

1. Hells, YES!

[lonestarnot]

55. Call and raise you one fucking!

Hells fucking yes!

[Hawkeye-X]

2. Remember, Chimp can still be impeached after he leaves office.

He can lose his status, pension, SS protection, and be arrested and sent to the Hague for war crimes. Deadeye too.

[kay1864]

18. Constitutionally, maybe. Realistically, never.

Pelosi is not about to entertain the idea.

Indictment (not impeachment) by a state Attorney General or Federal prosecutor is a more likely possibility.

[FailureToCommunicate]

21. The Hague -and the rest of the world is watching. This is not just Pelosi's

fish to fry anymore! She has chosen to ignore her oath of office and given him (them) a pass. History will not be so forgiving.

[kay1864]

30. Agreed

But only the US House can impeach.

Unfortunately, arrest and trial of a former US President is extremely unlikely. No foreign power would attempt it.

Indictment in the US is the only possibility, and it's one I hope some Attorney General has the balls (or ovaries) to implement.

[FailureToCommunicate]

84. Look at Pinochet. He got snared in Spain and sent to answer for his crimes

[truedelphi]

31. Is there a penalty to impose on Pelosi, Reid and others for ignoring

Their sworn duty to uphold their office??

We need to start frying the small fish so that we can work our way up to the big fish.

[kenfrequed]

42. Yes

It's called an election.

But seriously, I don't think there is a mechanism in place that would expedite this process. There is nothing compelling her to pursue articles of impeachment. Unfortunately. Congress' failure to impeache WILL inevitably come back to haunt us when the religious reich ressurects itself again. Of course the triangulators and third -way folk will sell us out lightning fast (as indicated by their browbeating us for challenging the president during a time of 'war').

[Harry Monroe]

49. There is also a mechanism in place called impeachment

Reid, Pelosi, et al, can also be impeached for failure to do the jobs they were elected to do. But it would take some courageous Democrats in the House and Senate to impeach them and put them on Senate trials. Courage is severely in short supply in Congress

[kenfrequed]

54. This impeachment

Would be even harder than impeaching Herr Bush and even less likely.

[Jackpine Radical]

50. The Constitution specifies circumstances under which Congress MAY

impeach. It says nothing to the effect that there are circumstances in which Congress MUST impeach. However, Congresscritters who choose not to impeach when the public thinks they should are subject to the will of the voters.

[elocs]

29. DU is not exactly a bastion or realism. n/t

[Independent_Liberal]

41. Yes, we're all out of touch with reality because we want justice and the rule of law restored.

Well, some great achievements in history weren't necessarily achieved through being "realistic."

The fight for women's rights took a while as did the fight to end slavery and the fight for voting rights for African Americans.

Can you imagine what things would be like today if people all said, "Reality is a harsh mistress, ladies. Let's accept that we'll never get those rights," or "Ending slavery is unrealistic folks. We'll just have to deal with things the way they are," or "We'll never get our right to vote, so it's not something worth pouring all the time and energy into."

I'm sorry to say it, and hope you don't take it personally, but that's what your attitude appears to be: Don't even try at all, because it's a lose-lose situation no matter what.

Exactly the same attitude the "Good Germans" had. Well, maybe you need to look back at their experience.

Anybody who's truly in touch with reality knows that impeachment, prosecution, etc. is the way we can go about truly restoring our reputation and ensuring that these abuses don't happen again.

[Zhade]

110. Fuck ANYONE who's willing to let criminals walk.

NT!

[Zhade]

109. No, we're just right.

NT!

[Vincardog]

45. How ever it comes justice must be done, MAybe Dim Son and his traveling band of sycophants can spend...

their twilight years traveling from state to state being tried for their treasonous actions.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

63. Pelosi should be investigated along with Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rummy and so on and so on.

We can't just "look to the future", when I hear talk like that, it makes me sick.

[Webster Green]

87. It's absurd!

What?...They can only do one thing at a time?

Bullshit! They're just a bunch of wussies. They're scared shitless of repukes.

[Moochy]

90. Or More Likey Scared of

Self-Incrimination

[bdamomma]

24. God, I hope all of them are rounded up.

or they will be back. I do not trust any of them.

[vanboggie]

65. Yes they're already cheerleading for Jebbie

The sad part is that it will only take one more stolen election to pull that off and put them back at the helm.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

71. My biggest fear is that Bushco and the media they own, sabotages the Obama presidency

to fail and then they bring in Jebster.

They have gotten away with so much, with no one looking to hold them accountable. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeb "wins" in '12.

[sorefeet]

97. elect not

Put the criminals in jail and Jeb won't want to run he'd be scared they all would if they knew there are consequents

[pleah]

3. K&R Keep the pressure on!

Arrest, prosecute, convict, incarcerate!

[Imagevision]

4. How else do you solve the problem of where your at without knowing how you got there?

Bushco I believe is the most corrupt gang Washington has ever had, last week Bush stated he just wanted to fade away - the faster the better - what more can be said of that Statement?

[nichomachus]

6. I don't know how many times I've heard

Just in the last 18 hours how the NTSB has to do a thorough analysis of the Hudson River crash to learn how to prevent it in the future.

[FailureToCommunicate]

10. Yes! That's it! Have the NTSB look into wrongdoing by the Bush WH and THEY

WILL get to the heart of it. NTSB goes over every shred of evidence...

[nichomachus]

13. You've got that right

If we got them on the case, we'd have to build 50 new prisons to hold all the criminals.

[FailureToCommunicate]

20. Building prisons for all the Bush felons will create JOBS and boost the local

economies. Its a win - win situation.

[puebloknot]

40. Well, let's not call them prisons. Let's call them compulsory re-education centers ...

... where Bush, et al. can learn to read. It's so much more humane.

[jmowreader]

79. I know the book they need to start him on

United States Signals Intelligence DIrective 18--the book that says You Will NOT Use the United States SIGINT System to Spy On Americans, Dammit!

[LiberalLovinLug]

51. And its a silver lining win for Cheney

As he rots in a prison that he and Halliburton built, he's making money at the same time on his investment!

[AlbertCat]

26. Or we could just release all the Tommy Chongs to make room.

[truedelphi]

60. Except that these crooks and liar and thieves will not fade away

But go more deeply behind the scenes as they continue the work they began.

The shadow government responds to them.

ANother 9/11 is likely - many of us are certain that they were behind the first attack.

And look for further corruption of the American way of life. The middle class lifestyle that most of us took for granted is on the auction bank.

The very banks that claim their coffers are empty will be bidding on the local utilities. With cities and states strapped for cash, don't be surprised when you open your water bill sometime soon and read "Halliburton Water Utility" and then you notice your rates have been quadrupled.

Cheney and Bush won't really go away, they will simply be more underground than ever. With the effects of their vast and evil works mushrooming beyond anything we can conceive of or realize in our most depressing nightmares.

[Jefferson23]

5. The longer the pressure is on the better.

[tavalon]

9. Actually, it needs to be fast and hard

It needs to be a movement before the DLC figures out what hit them.

[NorthCarolina]

73. I agree n/t

[fasttense]

7. If Bush Senior had been prosecuted for the S&L scandal

and his involvement in the Iran-Contra affair, we would never have had bush jr to deal with.

Failing to prosecute has consequences for the next generation.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

47. That's what laws are all about.

[machI]

74. That's right, prosecute Bush the lesser or else we may have to deal with JEB running for President.

The third time could be the charm, Jeb would get us all killed.

[Maineman]

102. Excellent point !

[tavalon]

8. I hope you do it willingly, for we will force you to

This is not vengeance, it is necessary for our constitution and the continuation of our country. We must be the country of rules and laws that we claim to be. And the violations were also international, so we must stand aside as the international community does their work (think Nerumberg trials). Be our leader, Obama and do these things and allow them to happen. We will force the issue but you'll look much better standing at the front of the masses rather than being pulled along.

[4dsc]

11. It will be up to Congress and the AG office to prosecute

Lets face it folks, it will be up to Congress and the AG office to investigate and prosecute the crimes of the Bush administration.. Not Obama..

[Baby Snooks]

85. Not after he leaves office...

Once he leaves office Congress will have no basis to investigate him and that of course is the basis any investigation by the Department of Justice will be blocked. Congress should have investigated "the matter" while he was in office and if Congress had felt "criminal acts" had been committed, Congress should have at least filed for impeachment. It wouldn't have mattered whether Congress actually impeached and then convicted or acquitted him. The impeachment would have served as a basis for further action. But, alas, the Empress didn't want to upset the Emperor. Eric Holder could potentially appoint a special prosecutor. I suspect the special prosecutor would hit that brick wall of "Why didn't Congress set impeachment in motion?" very quickly.

As for those who keep hoping there will be charges brought by the International Court of Justice, the United States is not a signatory and so the International Court of Justice has no authority.

The Nazis, you see, learned well from Nuremberg and wanted to make sure there would never be another Nuremberg.

The United Nations might attempt to circumvent the matter but of course pressure could be put on another country, to save face, to veto the matter in the Security Council.

Bottom line is they will not be held accountable. Only history will judge the Bushes. And the Clintons. And the Pelosis.

[Solly Mack]

12. No one is above the law...

the proof is in the prosecution...(or lack thereof)

[Baby Snooks]

86. The Bushes are..

You need to read up on Prescott Bush.

[Solly Mack]

95. LMAO. That's funny. Telling me I need to read up on Prescott Bush.

[PuppyBismark]

14. Let's wait until Bush loses his veto pen to discuss this.

I believe that what Barack Obama is doing is just the right thing for this time before Shrub leaves office. If Obama were to come out very strongly in favor of doing something specific, Shrub would be signing the pardons now. There is still a great chance that Shrub will sign pardons for his whole gang. So, let's withhold judgment until BO gets in office.

[beltanefauve]

33. And today is Friday

*ush can still pull something off between now and Inauguration Day. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Dangerously Amused]

15. Please please please...

[graywarrior]

16. YES!

Do it, man.

[Auggie]

17. And I know just the guy to do it: Vincent Bugliosi

[bdamomma]

27. oh, I hope he continues with his plan to investigate Bush.

[robertpaulsen]

48. I met him last weekend. Here's a website that shows how to help make this happen.

http://www.prosecutegeorgebush.com /

[totodeinhere]

19. I wish we could stop talking about this until after January 22nd.

shrub only has a few days left. We can wait. If we talk about it too much now that just gives him more incentive to throw a monkey wrench in the proceedings while he still has a chance. He can still pardon anyone including himself so let's not give him any motivation to do so. Then after Obama takes office, go after them with a vengeance, but let's keep our council until then.

[FailureToCommunicate]

22. Okay, since you asked so politely... But on Jan 23 'It's A New Day' -will.i.am

[tnlurker]

23. I am hoping that Obama

Is just playing this close to the vest in order to not let the Bush Administration know ahead of time that there will ber prosecutions. If he lets that cat out before Jan 20th then there may be a lot of preemptive pardons talking place.

[AlbertCat]

25. Helping Obama

I understand the wishy-washy stance Obama is making publicly about the Bush crimes. It makes sense politically for him to at least appear reluctant. So it is important for us to paint Obama in a corner, so to speak. If there is a huge outcry from citizens and civil servants alike, this will create a situation where Barack can say "It's out of my hands really. The American People have spoken" and appoint someone to investigate and let it go where it will.

I'm hoping that is what will happen.

So make sure there is a huge outcry!!!!

[Riverman]

35. OUTCRY! OUTSRY! OUTCRY! OUTCRY! OUTCRY! OUTCRY!

If Obama wants to be a leader of his hero Abe Lincoln's stature, then he must display the courage to order investigations, and where crime's can be documented seek indictments, fight for convictions and allow the Rule of Law determine the sentences for any participant in the Bush crime family activities of the last eight years. THAT IS THE CHANGE I VOTED FOR, among many other things! Obama cannot hide behind this obsession he has of building a big tent politically. He must have the balls to go after the people who have brought my country down on so many fronts. Even in South Africa, they conviened Truth and Reconciliation Boards to allow those who engaged in human rights vialations, murders of black people and those that opposed the horrific appartied system to come forward to self-confess their sins and crimes and ask for forgiveness. Bush last night showed no capacity or interest in even a mild "sorry." He is a sociopath that the neocons used to foment war, and all its ugliness of profiteering and violations of basic human rights and degradation of the rights guaranteed in our hard fought Constitution. These people cannot be allowed to walk out the door without being made to take responsibility for their crimes, PERIOD.

Obama - you must not roll-over as the Pelosi and Reid and the rest of the spineless democrats have done these last eight years, and their collusion with these crimes.

[humbled_opinion]

36. OK Now I am confused.

If Conyers has uncovered actual crime in his investigation that has been ongoing for 4 years now, as well as investigations that Dennis Kucinich has performed, why then didn't we have an impeachment trial in the House? If there are crimes then our own leadership is complicit.

That is actually why I am convinced, Bush made terrible choices and yes he most likely did authorize criminal acts, but at the time of ordering those acts they were not defined as crimes. It is part and parcel his position based on these end of term interviews, his position was I did what I thought was necessary under the guidelines of the law as it was when I made those decisions. The law international or U.S. was never explicit regarding waterboarding, On Jan 20th that will change and it will be explicit that waterboarding is torture. If Mukasy had said as much in his confirmation hearing then it would be now.

In any event, even with a ground swell of support the distractions that this would cause in the Obama Administration I am just not sure its smart politics.

[tclambert]

68. Here ya go . . .

OUTCRY

[Shardik]

28. If we do "look back" and hold the parties responible to the law,

it will generate global good will toward our Country again.

[onehandle]

32. Lotsa Luck. nt

[okiru109]

34. it's gonna be hard to ignore an informed populace armed with the www

[kpominville]

37. The Misinformation Superhighway

If cons have learned anything over the last decade, it is how to muddy the waters using rumor-mongering and the internet.

It has literally gotten to the point that the truth does not matter to Republicans. They "make their own reality".

We need to learn to simplify and clarify our messages to "catapult the propaganda" from the right.

[okiru109]

43. cuts both ways - and i'd say currently we are winning ;)

the next revolution will be the critical BROADCAST/TV space. when the www converges with the TV, checkmate.

and that is the next stop after the handheld revolution (easier to use www)

[INdemo]

38. Who can guess what the corporate media and the Republicans will come

back with if this would go forward and there were actual investigations and charges filed..lets see for starters,"its nothing but partisan political witch hunting" "we need to move forward,more important issues"..etc..And the one I see screaming the loudest is McConnell..
Lets stop dreaming folks..This ain't gonna happen..

[Independent_Liberal]

39. You can say we're just dreamers and it ain't gonna happen, but...

...the more pressure is applied, the louder the cries get, and the longer we talk, it can go from being just a pipedream to being inevitable.

[scytherius]

44. I fully expect he will, but just won't talk much about it

and will tend to downplay it even if it is a thorough investigation. Something like that would overshadow everything and that isn't good for the country. And I just mean if it dominates the news it isn't good. The actually doing it is just what this country needs.

[HEyHEY]

46. If he gives a fuck about justice he will.

And if he cares about the country he will. Wrongdoings are a crime against the people of the country. And he has to show such actions won't be tolerated by the United States. It will give the countyr a heap of integrity back. As well, it'll ensure the right is kept down that much longer.

[florida08]

52. 1100 signing statements alone

should warrant investigations.

http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/marjorie... /

watch Marjorie Chohn president of the National Lawyers Guild. She spells out 6 ways Bush and his crew violated
the law. Congress is culpable as well.

[Politicalboi]

53. Keep on Pushin Baby

The more they say "If Obama doesn't investigate he owns it" is gonna get to him.

[disndat]

107. This is any body's guess,

but if I were Obama, I would go ahead and let Holder do his thing.
After refusing, on a lie, to let Obama use Blair House to help start his kids in school, which to me had a racial component, Obama should stand aside and let Bush twist in the wind.

[davefromqueens]

56. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Quiet

Say nothing.

Tomorrow and sunday and Monday - say nothing.

Tuesday 12:01 - say a lot.

OH and how about no more mail service in Washington until Tuesday 12:01.

[Jackpine Radical]

70. Pwecisely.

Shhhhhhhhhhh--Don't scawe da wabbit!

[Wizard777]

57. So we shouldn't have held the Nuremberg trials. Just created the UN to move forward?

Many of the high ranking Nazi Officials committed suicide before being brought to trial. If Bush and all the high ranking official complicit to the crimes commit suicide. I guess we'll just have to let bygones be bygones. But until then we have trial's to hold. Lets start with the Yamashita Standard.

[mdmc]

58. Either look back or commit the same crimes

The GOP will take you down for doing what Bush did.
And when we are back in the minority party again (and all it will take is the corporations to back the GOP, which they will eventually do again) the next neo-con will work just like Bush did to destroy hope, democracy, civility, and peace.







She's got everything she needs
she's an artist
she don't look back....
she take the dark out of the nighttime
and paints the daybreak black...

[Political_Junkie]

59. Here's hoping he'll do what's right.

n/t

[Dinger]

61. Amen!

That is all. Krugman tells it like it is.

[JohnWxy]

62. actually, he has an obligation to investigate any suspected (or documented) cases of abuse of power

such as using the Dept. of Justice for political ends (firing of 9 U.S. Attorney's for not pursuing political persecutions/prosecutions for example). The commission of political prosecutions must be investigated too. the former Attorney General has to accept responsibility as well as the former president.

Agencies producing and distributing of propaganda pieces made to look like news reports.

are just a couple examples.

The government has an obligation to look into these matters. It's not like he has the option to look into possible wrong-doing.

[GinaMaria]

64. The * administration is the regurgitation of the Nixon entourage.

If this mess isn't cleaned up, imagine what it would be like to have the regurgitation of the * admin in 10 years. We can't afford these criminals any more. And we don't need Jeb, Jenna or any next generation * any where near the WH! We cannot withstand the assault of another resurrected soulless neo-con in our future.

[AlbertCat]

67. the regurgitation of the Nixon entourage

This is an interesting and vital fact that I have been privately mulling over for a while. I'm so glad you came out and said it.

These sociopath fools like Cheney have been trying to get "revenge" since their man Nixon was humiliated. They have completely ignored policy and actions that have worked, regardless of who introduced them, Dem or Repug, and have been "creating their own reality" in their small privileged world for 30 years now. It's all about "I'll show you!" even when it's obvious their notions are not good for the country or have been decisively shown to not work.

Obama can make and deliver a good speech and it's been a long time since that has been available....all the more to make his speeches more effective since the GOP has literally been talking nonsense and gibberish for decades now. I hope we get a string of Obama speeches recounting (in a moving but diplomatic way) the failures of the whole GOP philosophy, and connecting the dots from Nixon to Bush. This could blow the GOP memes of "greed is good" and "War is the way" and of course "Government is the problem" and the anti-americanism of an overly powerful Executive Branch.... should blow them out of the water. Everything is in place to show these memes to be of no value. Go for it, Obama! Start singing.

[Zorra]

66. "Look forward, nothing to see here."

When individuals become so wealthy and powerful that they can use positions of leadership to not only break the law but also make themselves immune from effective, lawful prosecution, they effectively become despots. It is the duty and responsibility of other elected and appointed officals, particularly those officials that are specifically charged with upholding and enforcing our laws, to do everything in their power to bring these criminal despots to justice. If those whose sworn responsibility it is to uphold and enforce our laws find it too inconvenient to enforce our laws, and subsequently refuse to do so, what are we supposed to do about it? Golly gee, maybe we could write some stern, strongly worded letters.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security —....

If Dems, with their huge majorities everywhere, do not make a sincere, effective effort at bring Bu*h and his fellow criminals to justice, they are going to lose a lot of respect, and subsequently, a substantial number of supporters, and may well become an ineffective minority groveling at the stinking fungus infested feet of republicans once again in 2010.

[MissDeeds]

69. Full investigations must take place

...followed by full punitive measures. If the crimes of the Bush Administration go unchecked, with no one held accountable for all that has come to pass on OUR watch, we have indeed ceased to be a democracy. If Obama can let this slide, and write it off as being in the past, proclaiming that "we must look forward", he is giving tacit approval to all that has transpired.

[mwb970]

72. I agree!

bush and cheney belong in prison, but who's going to put them there if not Barack?

[jeff30997]

75. You do the crime...

then you do the fucking time.They should be brought to justice for what they did.All of them! Not only a few scapegoats.

[AsahinaKimi]

76. He simply must...

There is no looking away this time.

[1776Forever]

77. H.R. 104 - Conyers National Commission on Presidential War Powers and Civil Liberties

Sleeper Bill of the Month: Our Own Truth & Reconciliation Commission
By Elana Schor - January 9, 2009, 3:00PM

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01...

It happens more often than you might think on Capitol Hill: a new bill is announced by a congressional office, with little fanfare and fewer co-sponsors than it deserves but a purpose so abundantly sensible that the plan cries out for more attention.

Such is the case with H.R. 104, a bill introduced on Tuesday by House judiciary committee chairman John Conyers (D-MI) and nine other lawmakers. The measure would set up a National Commission on Presidential War Powers and Civil Liberties, with subpoena power and a reported budget of around $3 million, to investigate issues ranging from detainee treatment to waterboarding to extraordinary rendition. The panel's members would hail from outside the government and be appointed by the president and congressional leaders of both parties.

Sounds like a great idea. In fact, it sounds a lot like Senate armed services committee chairman Carl Levin's (D-MI) proposed interrogation-policy commission that has been kicking around since 2005. So why does such a good bill only have 10 co-sponsors?

The answer is complicated -- and neither House Speaker Nancy Pelosi nor Majority Leader Steny Hoyer have returned my calls to talk about it. But I'd wager that it has a lot to do with the Democratic majority's desire to turn the page on the Bush years and begin pressing on with an Obama agenda designed to showcase its ability to govern. Nothing wrong with that.

[Jefferson23]

78. This is an excerpt from Philippe Sands, "The Green Light"

The article is 8 pages and a great read, but it is on the last page that you find an interesting legal case indicating precedent for even the lawyers, like Yoo, who do not have immunity outside the US even as we speak. Ironically, it is the United States that brought this case to justice.

snip* A Tap on the Shoulder

The table in the conference room held five stacks of files and papers, neatly arranged and yellow and crisp with age. Behind them sat an elderly gentleman named Ludwig Altstötter, rosy-cheeked and cherubic. Ludwig is the son of Josef Altstötter, the lead defendant in the 1947 case United States of America v. Josef Altstoetter et al., which was tried in Germany before a U.S. military tribunal. The case is famous because it appears to be the only one in which lawyers have ever been charged and convicted for committing international crimes through the performance of their legal functions. It served as the inspiration for the Oscar-winning 1961 movie Judgment at Nuremberg, whose themes are alluded to in Marcel Ophuls’s classic 1976 film on wartime atrocities, The Memory of Justice, which should be required viewing but has been lost to a broader audience. Nuremberg was, in fact, where Ludwig and I were meeting.

The Altstötter case had been prosecuted by the Allies to establish the principle that lawyers and judges in the Nazi regime bore a particular responsibility for the regime’s crimes. Sixteen lawyers appeared as defendants. The scale of the Nazi atrocities makes any factual comparison with Guantánamo absurd, a point made to me by Douglas Feith, and with which I agree. But I wasn’t interested in drawing a facile comparison between historical episodes. I wanted to know more about the underlying principle.

snip* Those responsible for the interrogation of Detainee 063 face a real risk of investigation if they set foot outside the United States. Article 4 of the torture convention criminalizes “complicity” or “participation” in torture, and the same principle governs violations of Common Article 3.

Article in full here: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/gua...

[Somawas]

80. I'm also looking forward.

Forward to seeing Bush, Cheney and the lot of them in prison.

[Fovea]

81. Konrad Adenuer

Wanted to move forward too, but there was the matter of Israel, and how Germany had 'dealt' with the Jewish community.

It is an infantile fantasy to wish one's higher power to make it not have happened.
Even the tortured language of the request reveals its impossibility, and we cannot wish away the evil of the Bush years.
To do so is to risk all that moving forward might gain us.

[onehandle]

82. Dream on. And if Bush gets sniffed at... Obama will pardon him.

Guaranteed.

[napoleon_in_rags]

92. The problem is *personal* dimension to all this stuff.

Some big investigation into the person GWB will be a political waste of time, it will be perceived as a circus. All Obama needs to do is proceed with his transparent government stuff, and get a lot of good info on how things are working and what's screwing up, and what happened. At the end of the day what needs to be destroyed is bad policies...The key issue is that stuff happened which must never happen again. You don't want all that stuff repeated when Joe the plumber runs for president in 2012 and have it accepted as okay, just because he isn't GWB. You want the ideas challenged. Whatever happens with the people behind the ideas comes secondary to that primary mission.

[Zhade]

111. Yeah, just let criminals walk. That'll teach people that crime doesn't pay.

Such unbelievable fucking cowardice.

[pmorlan1]

83. We all need to add to that pressure

I hope Obama supporters also chime in to let him know he must follow the Constitution and not allow Bush war crimes to go unpunished. I'd hate to see Obama follow in Bush's footsteps by ignoring the rule of law. He's better than that and needs to hear from all of us so that the beltway insiders don't lead him in the wrong direction. We owe him that much.

[ProgressIn2008]

88. He just called Bush a good guy. He has said he doesn't think Bushco's crimes are impeachable.

I don't think Obama thinks Bush did anything worth investigating, to be honest. The rich and powerful stick together.

[lebkuchen]

96. Obama will figure it out when his donations dry up

I won't donate to him again unless I see accountability.

[Zhade]

112. Oh, then fuck him.

NT!

[MasonJar]

89. We, the people, must keep the pressure on Obama and the Congress.

Otherwise nothing will happen; the Obama administration will not take this on. A special prosecutor is called for!

[Norrin Radd]

91. kr

[Canuckistanian]

93. Obama knows damned well that laws have been broken

And this time it's a much more serious crime than Nixon or Bush I ever did.

The Nixon crimes should have been investigated more thoroughly. And GHW Bush's ties to Iran-Contra and BCCI should have had a hard, cold light shone on them.

Both investigations were halted under Democratic presidents.

This has to stop. Right here, right now.

Or it will happen again under a much worse Republican administration, as hard as that is to believe.

[defendandprotect]

94. In looking forward, we have to realize that these criminals will return . . .

to complete the hacking of the Constitution and whatever

steals they've missed this time around - though it can't be much!

[bobd0]

98. If the Obama administration fails to investigate the Bush administration his legacy will be

forever tainted by the crimes of the Bush administration that his failure tacitly condones.

[Lorien]

100. Amen. nt

[ProgressIn2008]

113. I agree. It will be complicity in Bushco's war crimes. nt

[Lorien]

99. There is still a huge percentage of DUers who will squeal "HE'S SOOO SMART'!

no matter what Obama does. He called Bush a "good guy" who made "the best decisions that he could at times under some very difficult circumstances." and a significant number of DUers swooned and gushed about forgiveness and gentlemanly behavior. WTF? All of a sudden we're all going to jump on the pro Bush bandwagon because Obama has??

Bring BushCo to justice. It's the only way to preserve America's standing in the world and our democracy!

[Waiting For Everyman]

101. Yep, wreckage on this scale can't go unaddressed.

It wouldn't even be practical to try ignoring it.

I'm expecting a lot of inquiry by Congressional committees first. That's usually how it goes.

[Lint Head]

103. I smell White Wash. Too many people connected to the Bush

crime family are still in Washington and have their tentacles laced through politics there. These subversive pricks can change the outcome of an investigation simply by hiring the right lawyers. Lawyers that care nothing about the ethics and morals but everything about the money.

[Fluffdaddy]

104. will never happen

[bobd0]

105. I sincerely hope you're wrong.

If not, please see #98.

[lynnertic]

106. It occurs to me that every crime investigation is by def. "looking back"

[Zhade]

108. I can't believe Conyers says IF laws were broken.

We already fucking know, and have proved, dozens of such breaches.

STOP COWERING AND HOLD THESE FUCKING CRIMINALS ACCOUNTABLE.