Bush, 30 Officials, To Be Named In Complaint On Torture To Go To Obama Administration

[UpInArms]

Source: Australia.to 24.7 News

President Bush and his aides repeatedly ignored warnings that their torture plans were illegal from high State Department officials as well as the nation’s top uniformed legal officers, the Judge Advocates General of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, a new published report states.

“These warnings of illegality and immorality given by knowledgeable and experienced (government) persons were ignored by the small group of high Executive officers who were determined that America would torture and abuse its prisoners and who had the decision-making power to secretly require this to be done,” said Lawrence Velvel, chairman of the “Steering Committee of the Justice Robert H. Jackson Conference On Planning For The Prosecution of High Level American War Criminals.” The Steering Committee’s Report was drafted for the entire committee by Chair Velvel, a noted legal education reformer.

The Report anticipates a more extensive, full scale complaint, currently being drafted, that will be presented to the Executive Branch after January 20th, urging prosecution of President Bush and those who aided him.

“Far from American officials and lawyers authorizing or engaging in torture because it was lawful, they authorized and engaged in it because they wanted to (and) kept their actions secret from interested officials for as long as they could lest there be strong opposition to the torture and abuse they were perpetrating,” Velvel said. “They deliberately ignored repeated warnings that the torture and abuse were illegal and could lead to prosecutions, and they ignored these warnings even when they came from high level civilian and military officers.”

A preliminary Report by the Steering Committee seeking Federal prosecution of American officials “who ordered, authorized, approved or committed war crimes,” released January 9th, 2009, says they are guilty of “wholesale” violations of statutes that include Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, the Federal War Crimes Act, the Convention Against Torture, plus numerous other violations of U.S. and international laws.

Read more: verflow" target="_blank">http://www.australia.to/index.php?option=com_content&vi...

---

Mods, I am not extremely familiar with this news site, but it came in an google email news alert regarding news about the Bush admin and torture.

Do as you will and thanks for all you do. UIA

[Mnemosyne]

1. Pleased to send this to the greatest! KnR! n/t

[Lugnut]

2. K&R n/t

[KoKo]

3. Kick!

[UpInArms]

5. hey there, KoKo!

it's always a pleasure to see you



Here's to hoping that this is the year that justice will prevail.

[KoKo]

58. The same to you...

Always a pleasure to see you posting. We have to pray that the worst of it is over...

[Ishoutandscream2]

4. Damn criminals. The whole lot of them!!

My God, what our leaders have approved. Fucking criminals!!

[bobd0]

6. If there is any justice left in America

these people will be held accountable for their actions and suffer the full consequences. This is the only way our nation can recover from the damage caused and stigma of their actions.

K&R to save America.

[proud progressive]

13. don't hold your breath. prosecution of a past admin. would take courage. that leaves the dems out!

now who?

[surfinshell]

52. Sadly, I have to agree

this administration's "flippant" attitude toward their illegal actions has to be dealt with. If we don't another country will and it's us, the American people who will suffer for what the Bush admin has done.

If the neo-cons want Armageddon ... they'll get it ... just give us a chance to ignore war crimes.

[tabatha]

7. I would SO like to see them humiliated to the extent they have done to others.

[Old Codger]

8. Nothing

Would go farther toward mending our nation than to try and convict bush, cheney, rumsfeld and the rest of them, would tickle the shit out of me to see that happen. Imagine the TV ratings to watch that one ....

edited for spelling

[JDPriestly]

30. Convicting these powerful men would send a message to the

world, to all dictators and all who gain power over others through cruelty and the threat of cruelty, that the United States will, whenever possible, not just condemn such acts but hold those who commit them responsible. It is essential that we stand against torture and try those in our country who commit, order or condone it. If we don't we will be viewed as hypocritical when we wish to punish those who torture our citizens.

We are a powerful nation, and what we do sets an example for the rest of the world. When low-life hustlers in Beirut or Pakistan kidnap and torture journalists and diplomats and missionaries and others, we condemn it. We have every right to search for those who commit those cruel acts and to bring them to justice -- provided that we condemn those who commit those same acts in our name.

[99th_Monkey]

39. now there's some "change i can believe in" ... Gee, let's not torture people anymore, what a concept

sorry, no text ... and no room left on the header to tell you same.

[Stevepol]

9. Hope this is true, and I wish it God's speed.

[Swede Atlanta]

10. Obama will do nothing....but the international community should and will

My prediction is Obama is going to stay far away from this. I believe his administration's record on human rights will be significantly better than W's but i don't think O is going to take this on.

He still needs, at a minimum, moderate Republican support in the Senate. Passage of bills should be generally safe given the Democratic majority but procedural matters often require more votes than the Democrats have such as cloture.

These allegations, if 5% true, are enough that I would like to see all of those charged locked up for the rest of their natural lives. This is truly shameful and as we all know torture is in fact counter productive. Darth Cheney was on television a few weeks ago saying we got lots of actionable intelligence from the torture of one prisoner, Sheik something. His assertions were completely deflated during a subsequent interview with an intelligence officer that is familiar with the case.

I fear Obama is going to let this one slip because it diverts time and attention from the other major pressing issues of the nation such as the economy, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the global climate crisis, etc. I am torn on this one because as much as I would like the U.S. to get its own house in order on matters of human rights I believe addressing these other issues will give greater benefit to more Americans and people around the world than pursuing these prosecutions.

That said, I think the world community should raise the issue of war crimes. Let's see any of those charged land somewhere in the "civilized" world such as Europe, Japan, etc. and be arrested upon arrival. I wonder what the Secret Service would do if W or Darth Cheney were to be arrested on foreign soil. Their charge is to protect these creeps from bodily harm but would they have orders to protect them from arrest? That would be an interesting situation indeed.

I say let the international community deal with these thugs. We should do it and if we weren't in such a dire situation on all these other fronts, I would adamantly demand action by the Obama administration. I fear, however, that he has his hands full as it is.

[tan guera]

19. I disagree, lawdem

Nothing is more important than prosecuting, unless you think that Obama can't walk and chew gum at the same time. To not prosecute makes us a nation that condones torture and terrorism.
No excuses, Obama!

[DissedByBush]

28. He might be right

It is not about walking and chewing gum. Obama only has a certain amount of "political capital." Granted, given his success he probably has quite a bit.

But he might have to spend it all on the other things he wants to get done to move this country forward. I can understand if he doesn't want to spend it on the past.

That is if he desires to spend it at all.

[whopis01]

51. If you think Obama is going to try to have Bush prosecuted you are out of your mind. n/t

[DissedByBush]

27. Precedent favors you

Ford clears Nixon. Bush clears Reagan. Probably more that I don't know of.

[AlbertCat]

69. Ford clears Nixon. Bush clears Reagan.

And how did that work out for the pardoners? Can you say "one term"?

If there is enough outcry (looks like a lot now!) Obama can say it's out of his hands, the people demand it and so he must appoint someone to look into it....

Kind of a lame scenario, but believable.

[DissedByBush]

74. "the people demand it and so he must"

Haha, you are funny. He would do it if the corporations and party elite demanded it. We little people who got him elected? Not so much.

[JDPriestly]

32. No, lawdem. We allowed Bush et al to do this. We have to try and punish them.

It's our responsibility, not our choice.

[orleans]

43. jonathan turley was talking to rachel i think, about this

saying nothing could be more humiliating than us not taking care of this issue to the point where the international community steps in to prosecute.

if obama doesn't have the spine to deal with this what does that say about this country? that we are above the world laws.

however, that said, i wish the world community would have stepped in a year or two ago!

[TheEuclideanOne]

44. I think that you hit the nail on the head

If the world community were to step in, they would have done so already.

Besides, what would the world community do anyway if we, ourselves, are not willing to prosecute? I would think that the world community would be saying "How, or why, should we hold them accountable if your own country is not? It is not a priority for you? You are too busy with other issues?". You can't make the argument that it is not possible to do because we hold leaders from other countries accountable. The analogy that comes to mind is Iraq. Imagine if Hussein was not re-elected and Iraq decided not to hold him accountable because they were "too concerned about their economy". Woulld we step in, or would we conclude that they are not interested in holding him accountable? Can you imagine how we could make a case for that? It would have to be something like "We know that they are completely capable and it is easily within their powers, but it is jut not a priority for them so we are going to capture and convict Hussein. We know that he convicted atrocities against his own people and even though his own people are focusing on fixing their own economy and don't care to do anything about it, we think that we should."

[orleans]

82. i disagree about the idea that the world community would have already

stepped in.

i think they are waiting, willing to give us the chance.

if obama doesn't step up to the plate then someone else will. and obama won't be looking too moral if it has to get to that degree.

i think it's gonna come down to this:
either we do the right thing or someone is gonna do it for us. and if we don't we're gonna look like major big fucking assholes--and obama is gonna look pretty much the same as business as usual if he doesn't take this lead.

on edit: i just found this on ralps mandatory malloy thread in gd:

His body language and his non-answers were clear indications that he knows neither he nor his corrupt administration will be held accountable for the catastrophic damage they have done to this country. Already, those speaking for Barack Obama have made it clear there will be no investigations, no indictments, no prosecutions for any of the long list of crimes this administration has committed. One estimate says that list includes 269 laws, domestic and international, broken by the Bush thugs, starting with illegal wiretapping and surveillance, the firing of US Attorneys, the corruption of the Department of Justice, the invasion of Iraq, state-sanctioned torture, so-called “rendition” which is, in fact, kidnapping . . . on and on and on.

Dahlia Lithwick - in an op-ed piece in today's New York Times - writes: Those who say that there should be no investigation or prosecution of senior officials who authorized torture and warrant-less surveillance rarely even bother offering legal justifications. They argue that the Obama administration has more urgent problems to contend with. They insist that any such process would devolve into partisan backbiting from which this country could never recover. And they insist, as did Attorney General Michael Mukasey in early December, that there is no basis on which to prosecute the architects of torture and wiretapping policies because each was acting to "protect the security in the country and in the belief that he or she was doing something lawful."

So are we to be left no accountability for the crimes committed repeatedly, relentlessly, arrogantly over an eight-year period? Will there not even be a "truth commission" of some sort modeled perhaps on that used by South Africa following the end of apartheid? Is the fear that such a commission might be forced, after taking testimony and hearing witnesses, to recommend legal action by the Obama Justice Department?
The conclusion to which the power elite seems be finalizing is that we will see business as usual in the Obama administration, even though the political and financial futures of the US are shaky at best, near-collapse at worst.

Will the decision not to investigate and prosecute be one the American people are willing to accept?

- MDM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[JDPriestly]

63. It occurred to me this morning that the international pressure on

Obama to try these men for war crimes may be so great that he is forced to try them. The Europeans may be willing to shut there eyes and continue on as if nothing happened. But Obama will be viewed as just another paid politician, just another phony in the eyes of a lot of developing countries if he does not prosecute. And its their trust and esteem that he will need the most in the next years.

[customerserviceguy]

11. I hate to be the turd in the punch bowl here

but anybody thinking that President Obama is going to use up any of his political capital on this is going to be seriously disappointed. The best you can hope for is some international body making a big deal out of it, but don't expect the Obama Administration to frog-march Bushco over to the Hague if it ever gets that far.

History will be the only judge of this situation. Barack Obama knows he has this country's economy to rescue from the excesses of the last eight years. If he demonstrates justice and fairness in his dealings with the rest of the world, America's reputation will be restored in due time.

[defendandprotect]

16. No peson, no nation, can "move on" without doing justice ....

that's delusional . . .

And, the JFK assassination and political violence by the right-wing since then

is evidence of that--!!

An impossibility -- guaranteed.

[customerserviceguy]

18. When did we see that sort of justice

after Vietnam? And what exactly did the JFK assassination have to do with the right wing? Or is there some version of the Kennedy assassination conspiracies have I not kept up with?

After the coming deprivations of this depression, the world will forget Bushco as much as they forgot what Germany did during World War I. It's Barack Obama's job to minimize the effect of that depression on the American people, and turning Bush and Cheney over to an international tribunal will do nothing to help that.

Like I said, don't be too surprised if his administration pays zero attention to this, the same with the Democratic Congress. It just doesn't win votes with the folks back home, who are looking more for where their next paycheck is coming from rather than taking satisfaction from Bush and Cheney sitting in a jail cell.

[defendandprotect]

31. Start with "War Is A Racket!" and ....

Brig. Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler --
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
It's a short book -- free to read.
-----------------------------------

There was no "justice" after Vietnam . . . that's what I'm talking about!!!
That's how we managed to "overcome the VN syndrome" and march on Panama and Grenada --
Iraq Part I ...

And what exactly did the JFK assassination have to do with the right wing? Or is there some version of the Kennedy assassination conspiracies have I not kept up with?

The history of assassinations/coups points to elites/establishment ---capitalists/corporations.
See: Brig. Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler re FDR assassination plan
See: "War Is A Racket!" for a further education by same man. Text is on internet.

Re JFK -- See: YouTube - LBJ's Mistress Madelaine Brown --
And: The Men Who Killed Kennedy
If you Want a book -- start with "High Treason I" by Livingstone --
probably at your library

After the coming deprivations of this depression, the world will forget Bushco as much as they forgot what Germany did during World War I. It's Barack Obama's job to minimize the effect of that depression on the American people, and turning Bush and Cheney over to an international tribunal will do nothing to help that.

Has the world forgotten Hitler? Or torture? Spying on US citizens?
This predicted "depression" was created purposefully -- and could have
been stopped. Gov. Elliot Spitzer for one was organizing Governors to
intervene. Bush stopped them. Like the first Depression this is man-made!

There is an inherent responsibility to prosecute crimes -- to uphold the Constitution.
You cannot compromise with evil and then expect it to die out.

[customerserviceguy]

81. Agreed, there was no justice after Vietnam

and that was my point. There will be none after this war, either. The Democratic Party had the opportunity to administer it during Jimmy Carter's Presidency, we even had Nixon as the perfect poster-child for an American Nuremburg, but if we wouldn't go there during the 1970's when the baby boom generation still had its idealism (seeing "Milk" a couple of weeks ago powerfully reminded me of the spirit of the times), I can guarantee you we won't go there now.

As for JFK, if anybody besides Lee Harvey Oswald was involved, they got away with it completely by this point, and chances are, they didn't feel compelled to make any deathbed confessions. There are so very many conspiracy theories out there, it's just impossible to sort them out. Sorry if that makes me look intellectually lazy, but it's pretty much the same logic I offer to my various religious friends when I decline to join up with any of their fairy-tale belief systems.

The world has not forgotten Hitler, but in the end, he cheated the world of justice by taking his own life. Unless, of course, you believe the various South America conspiracy theories. And Bush did not set Eliot Spitzer up with a sex worker, the Governor found her all on his own. It really wasn't his doing this that bugged me as much as it was his hypocracy. He went after every sex worker he could find in NY, and prosecuted them like they were terrorists.

As for President Obama's duties under the Constitution, you may be right, but not everything that is desireable is gonna happen. I expect some Congressional hearings, and some sideshows, but I expect that Obama is going to stay "above" it, unless something truly shocking is undisputably uncovered, such as audio/video tapes a la Watergate. As long as it's groups of white men saying, "No, I didn't," and "Yes, he did," back and forth, there's not going to be anything compelling to the general public.

[defendandprotect]

84. How long after American "slavery" will African-Americans get a meaningful

apology . . . ?

That doesn't mean that you stop seeking justice--!!!

Will we ever forget that this land belonged to the native American? No.

We know it and we know the injustice of it --!!

The Democratic Party had the opportunity to administer it during Jimmy Carter's Presidency, we even had Nixon as the perfect poster-child for an American Nuremburg, but if we wouldn't go there during the 1970's when the baby boom generation still had its idealism (seeing "Milk" a couple of weeks ago powerfully reminded me of the spirit of the times), I can guarantee you we won't go there now.

Once you were past the coup on JFK and "people's government" . . . you were into stolen

elections and the "buying of government."

Presume you've read this -- ??

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Election steals didn't begin in 2000 -- but 40 years or more before that.

Again, there is a difference between "will go there" and "should go there."

Haven't seen MILK yet -- looks like fantastic movie -- although the documentary done for TV

was also really worthwhile.

The Social Revolution of the '60's almost brought down patriarchy and organized patriarchal

religion, but they're now dying a slow death. When they started killing these young people

it was reigned in. Violence always wins!

On the other hand, the fascism is much closer to us now -- more real. People are under

greater threat to their lives and freedom every day. Capitalism has collapsed once again

and they're getting bailed out and the few are walking off with the spoils -- again!

This is all what the '60's revolution was about -- natural childbirth ... now reversed into

outrageous numbers of Cesareans, for the convenience of doctors and sold as convenience for

families/females! And so forth! All these decades later, women are paying more attention

to breast feeding.

As for JFK, if anybody besides Lee Harvey Oswald was involved, they got away with it completely by this point, and chances are, they didn't feel compelled to make any deathbed confessions. There are so very many conspiracy theories out there, it's just impossible to sort them out. Sorry if that makes me look intellectually lazy, but it's pretty much the same logic I offer to my various religious friends when I decline to join up with any of their fairy-tale belief systems.

Well, Oswald was CIA . . . "Oswald was employed by the CIA working on high level assignments

and probably also for the FBI." That's the Tunnheim Panel conclusion/1992 JFK Classified

Records Act. Same is told in a memo by CIA to Secret Service Agents immediately after the coup.

Madeline Brown, LBJ's Mistress has also revealed LBJ's role in the coup and the role of many

others -- See You Tube. In fact, the night of the assassination, many in DC KNEW who had done

it -- the coverup was very powerful and the myth lingers. The coup on JFK was actually a coup

on the "people's government" -- on democracy. And, it presaged the coming of fascism.


The world has not forgotten Hitler, but in the end, he cheated the world of justice by taking his own life. Unless, of course, you believe the various South America conspiracy theories.

The amazing thing was how many people weren't mystified over our NOT chasing down Nazis...

Supposedly, Nelson Rockefeller made that deal -- Jews could have Israel, but at the price of not

rounding up Nazis. They also went thru the Vatican "rat holes" as the gold did!

Meanwhile, Allen Dulles was bringing in NAZIS to head up NASA, to work founding our CIA,

and in our FBI--!! That's "Project Paperclip."

[TheEuclideanOne]

45. I hate to be the other turd in the punch bowl, but

We still have the same leadership that took impeachment off the table. They did nothing during the time that they could have made a difference and they didn't. Even if Obama suggests that we should hold the Bush crime family accountable, he will see pushback or no action because the same people that could actually hold him accountable also participated in these crimes. Unless Obama makes it the highest priority, and I have seen almost no talk of that, these criminals will never have to take responsibility for their actions.

[defendandprotect]

85. Sadly, our government is bought, our legislators are bought . . .

and we may be too deeply in fascistic times now to expect that WE could bring

these people to justice. It's a job for FREE people. Let's hope there are still

some out there--!!

[Fire1]

70. As much as I would love to see Bush & cohorts indicted and

prosecuted, I'm inclined to agree with you.

[rucognizant]

46. And don't forget............

Obama was bumped from Blair House in favor of one of the world leaders complicit with the bush admin's criminal acts John Howard!
Message there!

[ooglymoogly]

56. Sh!tting in the punchbowl is a felony punishable by logic. nt

[AngryOldDem]

61. Obama said as much on "This Week"

And it's a realistic assessment. That is not to say that the Bush Administration must not be held accountable. But the past cannot be allowed to entirely consume the present -- or future. Give the past eight years its due attention, in other words, but Obama cannot let it become the focus of his administration early on. There are too many other, immediate issues that need to be addressed.

And before this post draws fire, let me say that I DO NOT agree with the analogy of Gerald Ford's pardon of Nixon. Ford pardoned Nixon to move the country on: No questions asked, the pardon put paid to the whole sorry mess of Watergate, purely an internal affair, if you compare it to Bushco. I think that the actions of the past eight years DO deserve investigation, and those ultimately held as being accountable must "do the time." But I want it in its proper place and perspective. And that, ultimately, may well be on the world stage rather than on our own.

[JDPriestly]

64. AngrOldDem, How can Obama justify sending additional troops to Afghanistan

to punish the extremists there for the crime of 9/11 (the ostensible reason we are there) if he can't punish the extremists in our own government for their crimes? Why would he send troops to Afghanistan to fight terrorists if he can't fight war criminals here at home in our courts?

How credible will he be in the world if he sends thousands of troops to fight terrorists, i.e., war criminals in Afghanistan and lets the war criminals over whom his government has legal jurisdiction run about without so much as having to answer charges?

[defendandprotect]

86. Wow . . .

Again, it is impossible to move on honestly without ending the corruption.

Gates -- who was a primary player in the "October Surprise" is now active in this

administration-! And, basically, that's why we have a DOJ . . .

It's not like we expect Obama to personally run the investigations!


Ford was an active player in the assassination in that he was complicit in the post-coup

cover-up. Ford tried to have the wound in JFK's right shoulder moved UP.

The wound in JFK's neck/front had no exit. The wound in JFK's right shoulder/rear had NO EXIT.

It was probed a number of times at the autopsy -- NO EXIT.

Yet, we still have the myth of a "Magic Bullet" --!!

Also the wound in JFK's shoulder/rear was at a 45 degree DOWNWARD ANGLE!!!

So -- it's a 1000% impossibility.

Again -- that was Gerald Ford's work -- the handpicked successor to Nixon--!!

As guilty as any of them directly involed in the coup on JFK.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

12. Rec #30

To just move on and set our country's sights to the future is a grave injustice to all those who have been killed, tortured and displaced as a result of the Bush years depravity. What must have been going through the minds of the 4 presidents (including Poppy Bush) at their power lunch the other day? This Bush crowd has made the world a much scarier, more miserable place, and they must be held accountable.

[Trillo]

14. One more turd in the punchbowl.

It is very telling of the state of our so-called democratic republic that only now, only near the transfer to another administration, is there serious talk of crimes by the soon-to-be-leaving administration. Of course, the mental programming is done, the i's are supposedly dotted, and t's crossed, "See, we're doing our best to enforce the law!"

The real message is our Executive Branch is above the law.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. There has been serious talk of these crimes since before Iraq was invaded

Where have you been?

[Trillo]

35. balance of powers is seriously out of whack, and has been for many decades.

Sure there's been talk of crimes in alternative media for years, some in congress have sounded alarms but where is MSM to communicate that to all of us simultaneously and without excessive bias or celebrity distraction.

The balance of powers between the branches is what I was addressing in my prior post, and if that extreme is not brought back under some kind of effective check and balance, it seems these types of "war" (and related) problems are sure to recur.

Wash, rinse, repeat?

I'm sure if you re-read my prior post again, you probably can see that somewhere between the lines.

[defendandprotect]

87. Every day we have lost more power to bring justice . . .

and "the myth of a free press died with the assassination of Pres. Kennedy."

We now have less DOJ lawyers showing up to prosecute corporations than the

corporations have!!!

Nothing like "small government" -- it works well for corporate criminals!!!

[bstender]

66. turds, i should be such a fortunate addition to the punchbowl

but this 'committee' and the whole press release sounds pretty much like a feel-good pronouncement banged out over a bottle of wine with a few friends. it aint going anywhere but around and around the left blogosphere.

[edc]

15. Cui bono

It is essential that these psychopaths be prosecuted. Just as important is shinning a very bright light on those who bankrolled them into power and benefited from their being there.

[bonito]

17. Let US not be manipulated ever again n/t

[Shardik]

20. Another K&R... If these people are not prosecuted

I will lose a lot of respect for my country even with Obama in office.

The disdain for the constitution, treaties and rule of law that the Bush administration showed is truly criminal and if we allow the executive branch to be devoid of legal ramifications, we no longer deserve to exist as a Nation.

[terisan]

24. Bush and Cheney don't seem worried one bit. I think at the Presidents meeting

it was made clear there would be some rumbles as a sop to activists but the big guys all agree that "mistakes were made but intentions were good."

I think Obam and Bush get along just fine.

[terisan]

26. Obama feels a lot closer to GW Bush than to any rank and file supporter. They will socialize

gether and in time Obama will add words of praise for his fellow president. (Yes it is only my prediction-but note that Bush is not at all dismayed by Obama's win).

They worked together beautifully on the October surprise and no Dem in leadership has really seriously denounced Bush on that. Ironically some Republicans have.

I believe that we are closer to a dictatorship than at any point before this. I think Obama will do some positive things but I believe he is owned by Wall Street and the rich are in line to profit greatly.

It has been a long time since a president left the White House not much richer than when he went in.

Right now we have a ruling class; Obama has been admitted to that class and we have not. Whether the people will wise up and rise up remains to be seen.

[defendandprotect]

88. "I believe that we are closer to a dictatorship than at any point before this."

Sadly, AGREE ---

[trickyguy]

21. K&R. What the hell. Maybe they will be prosecuted before I die.

[goforit]

76. LOL!!! How old are ya ..16?

[ejbr]

22. Seeing is believing n/t

[pnorman]

25. Here's a US source that seems to contain some more detail

http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=78251

Here's the Full Report: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/38811

pnorman
PS: All I did was Google, after you provided the initial info. I had no idea until I saw this on DU. THANKS!

[Maureen1322]

37. Kick

[ProgressIn2008]

29. No justice for war criminals is complicity. Bushco must be prosecuted. nt

[machI]

41. Bush and Cheney need to be jailed first, then put on trial

With as much money as they have siphoned off from their illegal war, they could live high on the hog in many foreign countries and never be brought to justice.

[calimary]

33. I think, and I certainly hope, that we're going to start seeing a whole shitload of these

types of things, just adding and adding and adding and adding to the pile-on of people who just really seriously object to torture conducted in our name, with our money, against our Constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

Hopefully there'll be so much of this from so many different quarters around the country and the rest of the world that our government will be forced, or maybe even shamed, into taking action. John Dean was talking about that a few days ago on "Countdown with Keith Olbermann." He said the Europeans may start taking steps on their own if they come to believe we won't, and it will be MOST embarrassing to the U.S. If we're trying to salvage our country's reputation and whatever can be recovered of our moral leadership after it's been this badly decimated, and we're truly to rejoin the community of nations instead of continuing to be viewed as a rogue nation and a pariah, then we HAVE to deal with this. How would it feel to be told by France or Germany or Belgium or Norway or some other nation that - America, war crimes have been committed by YOUR former leaders, and you, America, have a responsibiity to pursue justice and hold the perpetrators fully accountable - and if you refuse, WE WILL TAKE THE LEAD AND HANDLE IT INSTEAD. How frickin' embarrassing would THAT be?

I'm hoping that the roar for this becomes just too loud and insistent and unavoidable for Obama and Congress and the media to ignore or try to sidestep. If we as a nation are to be able to look ANYBODY, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, in the face again with any semblance of self-respect, our reluctant leaders are gonna have to bite the bullet and Just Do It.

We civilians should do EVERYTHING we can to add to the pressure. Because NOT to seek justice and drag these bastards in to face full accountability is just absolutely unacceptable.

[mbperrin]

48. Well said! Thank you!

I'm tired of feeling apologetic for being a US citizen.

[stubtoe]

53. I rec YOUR post, Calimary. Nicely done. n/t

[duhneece]

75. I agree we should do everything we can

I posted the original post on my local newspaper comments section...just to keep the hope alive.

[dglow]

78. Accountability for Bush, Cheney and Gang

While I am hopeful that pressure will win the day and a thorough investigation and prosectuion will take place, Obama told George Stepanopoulos on This Week that he wants to "look to the future." In other words NO WAY IN HELL!

[calimary]

83. Welcome to DU! If we're REALLY to "look to the future," as so many of 'em say:

"...moving forward..." we need to look to a future when we can stand tall once again, and look the rest of the world straight in the eye with our self-respect restored, not flinching and smirking in shame and making all manner of excuses for the atrocities of our leaders. You have to understand where you've been to know where you're going.

[mirrera]

34. Imagine all those accused out of government and jailed for good, thats change I can believe in!

[democrank]

36. President-Elect Obama has to decide

if he wants his "change" to be liked or if he wants it to be just.

[disndat]

57. Obama put Panetta as head

of the C.I.A. This must be the important big step toward discovery. When total documented evidence that the Bush administration have kept secret comes out then there should be a huge public clamor and support for prosecutions. It is not possible for abuse of the Constitution this huge could be easily swept under the rug.

[truthisfreedom]

38. cheney is to thank for the greatest possibility that these freaks will hang.

Seriously. He took total responsibility for being a freak, and he's going to take down all of the freaks with him.

[BR_Parkway]

40. Is the timing of this not simply an encouragement for Bush to pardon

everyone?

Don't get me wrong - I am 110% behind throwing everyone of these bastards in prison for the rest of their lives for their war crimes - but with 10 days, 6 hours and 35 minutes left in this (mis)Administration - why give them any reason to think that they aren't going to get away with it?

[No Elephants]

42. Blanket, pre-emptive pardon from Bush. Even if not, don't bank on Obama or Congress to

do anything anyway. They could have moved in 2006 and saved us two more years, but it was not politically expedient. If they refused to do that, why would they do anything now that Bushco's entire two terms are over?

[dcindian]

47. This will be my number one issue come 2012

It already is for 2010. These are crimes against humanity and must be treated as such if those in power refuse to do such then they will not get my vote, because they are just as guilty for letting this go on.

[cstanleytech]

49. But will anything be done really?

I am kinda leaning towards the cynical view that nothing will be done, not because the democrats are weak or anything but because when you consider our nations history and other countries as well, more often then not those who abuse their power tend to get away with it sadly.

[annm4peace]

50. Don't start at the very top (Cheney, Rumsfield)

Start with the lawyer writers of the memo John Yoo and Delahunty.

Then work your way up.. the lower fish will squeal on the higher ups..

Look for Anti-Torture groups in your area or closest cities with Universities or Peace groups.

and through them lobby your Congress people.. they need to hear from you, to feel the pressure to try these people for war crimes.

We have several groups in MN who have consistantly spoke out, educated themselves and others, had rallies and marches in support of those captured, illegally held and tortured.
Involved WAMM (Woman Against Military Madness) Vets for Peace chapter 27, and hundreds of social justice and peace activists, and religious centers who signed up as an Anti-Torture supportor

One of the memo writers Prof Delahunty was constantly protested and letters written for him to be fired and held accountable.

Local ret.fBI agent Coleen Rowley has consistantly spoke on how torture only leads to false info and doesn't work.

Call your congress people and be another voice.

[Kindigger]

54. yippee

I hope

[Phred42]

55. Don't hold your breath - Obama: ‘We Need To Look Forward’

Obama On Appointing Special Prosecutor To Investigate Bush’s Crimes: ‘We Need To Look Forward’
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/11/obama-special-prose... /

The top question on Change.gov’s “Open for Questions” feature last week asked whether President-elect Obama will appoint a special prosecutor to “independently investigate” the “greatest crimes” committed under Bush. The inquiry, submitted by Bob Fertik of Democrats.com, has received over 22,000 votes. Today, ABC’s George Stephanopoulos asked Fertik’s question to Obama:

Q: The most popular question on your own website is related to this. On change.gov it comes from Bob Ferdick of New York City and he asks, ‘Will you appoint a special prosecutor ideally Patrick Fitzgerald to independently investigate the greatest crimes of the Bush administration, including torture and warrantless wiretapping.’

OBAMA:We’re still evaluating how we’re going to approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions, and so forth. And obviously we’re going to be looking at past practices and I don’t believe that anybody is above the law. On the other hand, I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards. … My orientation is going to be moving foward.

[disndat]

60. You left out the important last

sentence(paraphrased), "I don't believe that anyone is above the law."

[Phred42]

62. We'll see.

[Jefferson23]

59. First things first, that vile piece of trash, the MCA 2006 has to be found unconstitutional, that

will scare the hell out of Bush/Cheney. 35 Democrats helped pass that treasonous piece of shit. One of the best books covering Bush's crimes is, "Takeover" written by Charlie Savage.

[bstender]

65. who the hell is Steering Committee of the Justice Robert H. Jackson Conference On Planning For...?

it appears to be a toothless PR stunt. sadly, real justice is never coming in our lifetimes

[grahamhgreen]

67. We are looking forward - TO WAR CRIMES TRIALS!!! YEAH!

[Broadslidin]

68. "Immoral"? But, but our leader is a self proclaimed "born again christain"......

Or

Lusting for Imperial Empire + Organized Religion =

[tclambert]

71. Perhaps Christians are pro-torture?

After all, their savior was tortured. Mel Gibson made a movie about it. If the Lord Jesus was opposed to it, surely He would have said something like, "Hey, you guys! Stop it! You want Me to zot you with some lightning bolts or something? Well then, knock it off!"

But He didn't say that, ergo Jesus Christ was OK with torture.

(I actually heard this line of logic proposed by a Bush Republican.)

[man4allcats]

72. K&R

[Independent_Liberal]

73. K&R!

[goforit]

77. Just keep Fitzpatricks hands off it. They will all be let off the hook.

[KoKo]

80. I'm thinking "Fitz" is not the right person to deal with this, also...

inspite of how many DU'ers seem to love the guy.... He doesn't seem all that reliable to me...

[KoKo]

79. K&R....and it's an important read.......