Effort pushes ‘Medicare for all' system

[John Q. Citizen]

Source: The Missoulian (Lee Newspaper Chain, Montana)

Effort pushes ‘Medicare for all' system
By MIKE DENNISON Missoulian State Bureau


HELENA - As part of a grass-roots effort to reform health care, Montanans are sending ideas to President-elect Barack Obama - and, so far, many are saying that a national, “Medicare for all” system is the way to go.

“The consensus of (our group) was that we did not see a lot of change coming unless we went to a single-payer, universal health system,” said Deborah Hanson of Miles City, who organized a meeting of local citizens at the behest of Obama's transition team. “That was sort of a general consensus - knowing, of course, that may not happen.”

The Miles City meeting, held Dec. 21 at Hanson's home, was one of several in Montana and thousands held across the nation during the last two weeks of December.
*
Obama's nominated secretary of Health and Human Services, former U.S. Sen. Tom Daschle of South Dakota, asked that Obama supporters hold local health care community discussions nationwide to gauge the problems people see with America's health care system and how they'd like to reform it.

Read more: http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2009/01/08/news/loca...

---

A great article, in depth about how people all over the state of Montana are showing up at Obama inspired health care forums, meetings, and discussions, and how the people overwhelmingly want single payer.

This is really important because Baucus has already dismissed single payer on ideological grounds, and this irrefutably undermines the primary "it isn't politically feasible" argument that Democratic single payer - opponents are using against single payer.

[aquart]

1. Go Montana!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Medicare for all--but open up Medicare, please

so that it pays for all proven forms of therapy and treatment. Right now it doesn't.

[CountAllVotes]

3. Medicare should pay for an annual physical exam

because it doesn't many people do not go to the doctor being they must pay for this along with the premium.

It is stupid that they do not pay for an annual exam. Many very treatable illnesses could be prevented and would actually SAVE a lot of money and a lot of unnecessary suffering and sickness.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. Agreed

And it should pay for more than one lipid test a year if there is indications that lipids need to be monitored. Right now the patient has to be diagnosed with hyperlipidemia before they will pay--and we have Medicare patients that come to our clinic who are holding off on needed tests like this because their Medicare won't pay for it and they must pay out of pocket.

[CountAllVotes]

15. and hence they do not return

the sick get sicker with this system which has many flaws that could easily be corrected and would benefit everyone, even the doctors!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

36. especially doctors

who really care about their patients and practice healing people and helping them to stay healthy.

[John Q. Citizen]

4. Of course. And it negotiates drug prices, equipment purchases, fees for service, etc.

Global budgeting.

An income tax based system so everyone pays something in when they make income.

And everyone is covered for comprehensive medical dental and vision no deductibles and no co=pays.

In home, nursing home, ect.

Rehab, full coverage.


We are already paying for it, so we might as well get it.

[eridani]

5. Yes-- a switch to evidence-based medicine is necessary as well

Many "alternative" therapies do well by this standard. And of course others don't.

[Hugin]

6. If one of the major objectives of restructuring is to put treatment decisions back in the hands of..

Patients with the advice of their Doctor. Instead of the current system where some automated bean-counter somewhere makes treatment decisions based on some Corporate Insurance Industry created HMO inspired actuarial table.

I heartily agree with you and I hope this is where any reform of Medicare is heading.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. While i feel there are tons and tons of philosophies and ways to help people be healty

I'm of the mind that the most important first step is to make sure that whatever we do is

Accessible to all

Affordable to all

Covers what ails you whoever and where ever you may be.


After that point there are lots of smart ways to improve and protect public health.

[amyrose2712]

27. Yes please, I work in a Pulmonologist's office...

and every day we are getting calls from patients telling us that either Medicare will no longer cover their medications, most of which are life time, very necessary meds. Or that their local mom and pop pharmacies won't dispense pulmonary medications because they don't make enough money off them, because Medicare doesn't pay. WTF? I mean breathing is sort of important, no? Not only that but, at the end of the year many of the sicker patients fall into the Medicare "donut hole". http://tinyurl.com/8mkx5p (wiki) It really hurts them, which then benefits the drug companies because patients pay out of pocket or they have to switch to something the office has a sample of, which is usually a newly patented med, with no generic. I assume they are really just waiting for them to die. It truly is sickening.

[Donnachaidh]

8. I'd like the program the Senate and Congress has much better

I've dealt with Medicare. As it is it's not great.

Give us the same deal as Darth Cheney had -- full coverage for anything needed.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. you miss the point. The point is a tax funded single payer insurance pool with out

the rip off of a company whose fiduciary responsibility to their stock holders is to absorb as much money as possible and pay out as little money as possible.

We can form a pool that covers all necessary medical dental vision, nursing home, etc. and also has no co-pays or deductibles.

What Cheney has is publicly funded private insurance, but you forget he owns the insurance company. It's an impossible dream. It's too expensive to cover everyone and make the BCF rich beyond their wildest dreams.

[ejpoeta]

9. I am hoping that as more people see how easy it is to lose their health care

they will be seeing the light about a single payer system. Think of how much the health insurance issue effects every aspect of our econonomic well being. from businesses that can't afford to offer it to their employees, to the rising cost that causes people (like me) to have to get a high deductible insurance which will ensure i will not be going to the doctor unless absolutely necessary) to people that lose everything because the insurance they thought they had didn't cover that illness they got. it won't happen until enough of us demand it from our government. surely it couldn't cost more than we are ALREADY paying!! and hey, if i can pay for the insurance for the blowhards on capital hill who make way more than me to work 90 days a year..... why isn't it good enough for the rest of us??

[Delphinus]

21. All these people

who are losing their jobs, are also (if they were lucky enough to have it) losing their employer-based insurance. When unemployed, COBRA is simply not an option.

[Cleita]

11. Single payer is off the table????

Well, it looks like we are already being told to shut up and be good little peons. So much for change.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. We need to hold Max and Barack to thier "No ideology" pledge and force a fair

hearing for a progressive income tax based single payer fee for service system.

And now is the time to push for what we want.

[BanzaiBonnie]

37. That's what I was told...

I called my congressman and was told by his legislative assistant (in charge of health care) that single payer was not going to happen. I told her we'd just have to get more people to sign on and she let me know that the good congressman (Democrat) was not there to follow what the people want, he's there to make the decisions.

I finished that conversation totally pissed off.

[Cleita]

38. Wow! I can't believe how blatant they are about dismissing the will

of the people once they are elected.

[John Q. Citizen]

43. oh, Max Baucus has already gone ideological on single payer and declared it toxic to

his corporate masters.

But i don't think he gets it yet. When we turn out hundreds of people repeatedly demanding a fair hearing for single payer fee for service he's going to have to get pragmatic and quit prejudging plans for the Ameri9can people based on his partisan peculiarities.

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Please call them back and ask;

1. Obama says that pragmatism trumps ideology. We need a fair hearing for single payer so Americans know why a multi payer patchwork system that subsidizes private insurance with tax dollars is more pragmatic and better for Americans than a single payer fee for service system is.

2. Is the congressperson against single payer because of ideology, or for a pragmatic reason? Many many people thought America would never elect a black man president this year? They said it wasn't going to happen. Why can't single payer get a fair hearing right alongside whatever other ideas people have so we can chose what's best for Americans?

Better yet, write this snail mail to your rep, send it to the editor of a few local papers, and call and ask the same thing of their office.

Here's the deal; We may not get a single payer system passed this time, but if we don't get a fair hearing then we don't deserve health care. We suck!

But I know we can do it.

[Trillo]

13. Lots of us like the concepts of HR676

(hope I remembered the number correctly)

Myself, I just don't have faith that our existing Most Expensive Medical Care System in the whole world that fails to insure all wouldn't become the most Expensive Single Payer and non-Universal "Universal" Medical Care System in the whole world, were something like HR676 to pass. After all, in practice, the corporatii need their cut of profits no matter the system template on display, and they have always had their operatives insure loopholes are inserted in the final bills that are either passed, or they are simply not seriously considered.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. We can do it if we want to. HR676 is as bare bones aws you can get and call a bill.

We need some more detailed and serious single payer fee for service proposals that get into the nitty gritty a lot more.

In fact, it would be great to have a few to look at and discuss and think about.

We should put up a single payer alternative to whatever multi-payer patchwork Baucus ends up with anbd then we should demand an impartial hearing and compare what we are getting for our money.

[Delphinus]

22. HR 676

needs a full hearing. I don't think it will ever pass as it is, but it's a start. Medicare for All.

[pattmarty]

17. The Republicans (at least the currently elected ones) won't..........

.........stand for single payer. They will refer to it as socialized medicine and that will be the end of discussion for single payer. It is unfortunate that in the 21st century the US still can't get it passed, but that's where we are at. The ONLY way I see it has any kind of a chance JUST TO BE DISCUSSED is for Obama to get his "magic internet army" en force in a coordinated push for single payer, and even with that I doubt it would make it. I hate to be so down about it, but all the opponents (and don't fool yourselves, there will be a LOT of Dems against)have to do is yell "Socialism" and it's all fucking over.

[sutz12]

18. The dirty little secret that the Republicans don't want anybody to know....

is that when you get to the bottom line, the cheapest program is to cover everybody for everything.

Everybody gets an annual physical.
Everybody gets two trips to the dentist (minimum) per year.
Everybody gets an eye exam every year (would dramatically improve early detection of things like diabetes, while improving safety in untold ways).
Everybody has major medical and long term care.

Paid with a payroll tax similar to SS. Perhaps pay modest co-pays, adjusted for income. Everybody pays in.

Doctors are independent contractors. Insurers have very limited say in anything. Most hospitals are independent contractors and publicaly subsidized.

If we want to do it, we can. We just have to overcome the objections of the small, but politically powerful group that profits from the current disastrous (from a public health stand point) system.

[saracat]

19. Universal healthcare is the only answer!

[Delphinus]

20. I found the same thing,

Medicare for All or a single-payer system.

[leftstreet]

23. K&R

[Better Believe It]

24. K & R

[Joe Chi Minh]

25. Are you less deserving of free health care than European citizens?

Perhaps you should stay with your exploitative insurance companies. The French insurance companies "tried it on", but the government had to drop down on them from a great height. The criminals in that sector, unlike our crooks, knew the game's up; not to even think of trying it on again. Introducing such insurance in the UK or US would be wildly, wildly impractical, because our unconscionably criminal business ethos is now all-pervasive, indeed bred in the bone. Socially, we're pretty low on the evolutionary scale.

Our leaders in the UK would dearly love to get rid of our National Health Service, and have indeed been whittling away at it, but you see, we are a "slave" nation, and have been since 1066 - with a brief remission for good behaviour after WWII.

We pretended to forget that our leaders had been enthusiastic supporters of the fascist regimes in Europe, since we were busy building a welfare state. But the damage was done. We'd already been corrupted by the materialistic values of our monied classes, so adapting to atheistic Socialism was the obvious road to take; and without Christian underpinning, it was only a matter of time before the actual socialism degraded and disappeared. What we have left is the law of the jungle, anarchy and anomie, all produced and promoted by our successive right-wing governments. And not just our British government, but the European one too, which is quite as recidivistic as our own and as hostile to the welfare of the people as our own. Though they have a tough time with France, Germany and Italy, for a start. There the leaders fear their people, not the other way round.

[eagertolearn]

26. why can't we follow systems that are already in place?

We have friends in Germany, Canada and Norway and they love their health care system. they even have a lot of prevention built into their care. We are so backwards here. Everyone has been sold the idea that "socialized medicine" is so bad but even my husband who is a doctor sees the light and realizes we have to get these insurance companies out of the loop. Single payer system is the only way to go

[offog]

28. Great thread!

I've enjoyed the discussion here.

I'm Canadian, and I would very much like to see Americans get universal healthcare. What's my interest in this? It has to do with my favorite political motto: "What we desire for ourselves, we wish for all." This quotation comes from J.S. Woodsworth, who was a Member of Parliament during the 1930s. He was one of those, you know, evil Canadian socialists.

I sincerely hope that Americans can get over that fear of "socialized medicine". It's not that bad, honest! It means less bureaucracy, not more, and also more freedom. I remember watching TV coverage of the Republican National Convention. One speaker said that universal Medicare would mean a government bureaucrat standing between you and your doctor. That's totally bogus.

Here's an example of how it really works. Back in late 1991, I found a lump in my breast. I went to my GP to get examined and he sent me to a specialist. The specialist also examined me. He said that the lump was probably benign, but I'd better get a biopsy just to be sure. I had surgery to have the lump removed, and a clean bill of health, a couple of weeks later.

At no point did anyone have to contact any government or insurance bureaucrat for permission to examine me or do the biopsy. No bean-counters getting in the way, no 27-page forms to fill out. I just had to show my health card, and away we went.

Americans are the most savvy consumers in the world. They won't put up with crappy products or service from retail stores, car dealerships or auto-repair shops. I can't believe you folks put up with all that crap from private health insurance companies. Come on, everybody!

I really like that Internet Army idea. People should also do in-person networking, talking up the issue on the coffee and beer circuits. Keep up the fight, and good luck!

[sutz12]

47. You were doing fine until you said this.

"Americans are the most savvy consumers in the world. They won't put up with crappy products or service from retail stores, car dealerships or auto-repair shops. I can't believe you folks put up with all that crap from private health insurance companies. Come on, everybody!"



Just kidding, but you do know we are the home base of Wal-Mart, right? We invented putting up with crappy products and services. Our health care delivery system is just the prime example of that.

Nice post, overall, though. We get lot's of "horror" stories about Canadian health care from our RW opponents, most of which has no basis in reality. I'm hoping we get some progress on this soon, like before I die.

I do have a daughter that deserves better than what I had for most of my life.

[bread_and_roses]

29. This NY'er sent Obama the same message. And "medicare for all" is shorthand

for universal coverage - it does not have to mean the current, Junta/Neocon/Free-Marketeer distorted version of Medicare - it does not, for instance, have to keep the insane, Free-Marketeer imposed ban on bargaining with Big Pharma for drug rates. It can cover routine preventive care. The phrase "medicare for all" really came out of the reality that even WITH its' current flaws, Medicare is one of the most supported programs by the general public. People don't want to get rid of it, as they are always so tempted to do with "welfare."

I would bet that thousands from every State are sending Obama the very same message.

[northernlights]

30. my local health care discussion

There was one in Maine just a couple weeks ago. I missed it due to short notice. So I wrote in my ideas, from the perspective of both a patient and a health care student.

As a patient, I described my experience when I had HMO insurance and became severely ill. The doctor refused to perform *any* tests on me, even though I was obviously sick (lost 20% of my body weight very quickly among other symptoms), because they were rewarded for not spending $$. A simple $10 (at the time) CBC would have shown that I had a raging infection. I was forced to go outside the system and pay cash to save my life.

Conservatives will say that "Americans don't want a government bureaucrat telling them what treatment they can have." Well I, for one, don't want some insurance bureaucrat rewarded to cut costs denying me treatment. I want single payer healthcare.

Wealthy people fear universal healthcare will force rationing due to the shortage of health care delivery professionals. I suggested that we increase the number of professors in existing training programs. There are waiting lists for nursing school, lab tech, med school. So increase the size of the programs and lose the waiting lists.

Healthcare is a *community service.* Delivery professionals need extensive training. They work ungodly hours in all weather conditions. Every day they are breathed on, coughed on, sneezed on, vomited on and bled on by virulent, antibiotic-resistant pathogens. They should not have to take on student loans the size of a hefty mortgage, whether they are young people just starting out or mid-life and starting over.

The community needs healthcare delivery professionals. So the community should fully fund training. The students should be required to maintain the grades, of course, and work in their field.

Invest in training, lose the insurance bureaucracy, and healthcare availability will rise *and* costs will fall.

[eagertolearn]

31. In Germany and Norway with their "education for all" practice

the doctors or lawyers don't come out of school with years of loans to pay off. This is why they are okay with getting paid less because they don't have these huge loans to pay off. One of our exchange students is in medical school right now. Many people who want to be nurses or doctors in our country can't because of school expenses. There is so much we could improve on to make this work! I agree with everything you said. Can someone send thrie thread to Obama? This is saying it all. Single payer system and get those insurance companies out!

[pinto]

32. Kick.

[sarcasmo]

33. Kick and Rec should be all fifty states, but way to go Montana.

[Politicub]

34. That would be great!

k&r

:KICK:

[Mark D.]

35. ENOUGH!

Those debating against this are corporate owned. The answer is already out there. Beyond expanding Medicare, full of gaps and still often expensive to those on it. It's also administered in part by AENTA. It's not the answer. We already were given the answer. We pay almost 2.5 trillion a year for Health Care. That is exactly what the plan Dennis Kucinich has presented and perfected for years, would cost. No additional taxes needed. It would cover everyone 100%. All medical, dental, vision, chiropractic, and proven effective alternative medicine treatments, and prescriptions. No copays, no premiums, no deductibles.

If it does cost the average tax payer a few hundred a year in new taxes, well, that will save 90% or more of those who have insurance considerably money vs. what they have now anyway. The answer is there, we should use it. Let Tom Daschle run the whole system, but have him work with a particular congressman, Dennis Kucinich, on implementing this plan. One Republican vote in favor and it could pass the Senate, or it should. End this nonsense, and NO Mitt Romney plan which merely forces those who don't get it now who can't afford it (and don't qualify for assistance) to buy it.

That plan is bullshit here in Mass and would be nationally. Why? Oh, we help those who can't afford it pay for it. Bullshit. Those who can't afford health care qualify for Medicaid anyway. If they make too much to qualify for Medicaid, most of them make to much to qualify for assistance on that plan either. Obama's not forcing folks on it (besides children) is fine and dandy, and it will reduce the uninsured, but still won't cover everyone. Get the profit out of the system 100%, cover everything, end this madness. No country who ever implemented true universal care we pine for here EVER turned back by popular demand to a profit-based plan, or ever yearned for one.

They like what they have. There is worry quality will drop, not if we run it right. We're the most powerful nation on Earth, we are supposed to be patriotic saying we can do 'anything'. Why can't we run a plan better than any other. Eliminate the top source of bankruptcy, you want an economic stimulus? Imagine what folks will do with thousands a year they don't dump into plans that often deny coverage anyway. Also include long term care. Why would it cost less? Less people getting catastrophically sick due to massive prevention efforts. They would have to prevent, it would save them money, vs. the plan now, to just deny benefits to make profits! Enough!

[area51]

39. Kick.

Every year, 100,000 people die in the U.S. due to lack of healthcare.

Single-payer NOW.

[sarcasmo]

40. Kick back to the top.

[defendandprotect]

41. Medicare for ALL --- let's go Democrats . . . !!!

[slipslidingaway]

44. I wonder if the HC proposal will more closely follow this plan?

Rahm Emanuel’s Brother Joins White House Team

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/12/18/rahm-emanuels-... /

"Zeke Emanuel will work closely with Department of Health and Human Services secretary-nominee Tom Daschle to formulate a national health insurance program and to try to curb the swelling cost of health insurance without adversely impacting health care."


Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel on Universal Health Care

http://www.pbs.org/now/news/315.html

"Promises of universal health care roll off the tongues of several presidential candidates but how do they plan to achieve it? Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, Director of the Clinical Bioethics Department at the U.S. National Institutes of Health, says he's got the solution, in the form of an innovative and crowd-pleasing voucher plan.

"I think the universal part appeals to the Democrats. The voucher part appeals to Republicans. And I think it should make us one big happy family," Dr. Emanuel tells David Brancaccio in a web-exclusive interview..."

[John Q. Citizen]

45. It's time' We The People' tell the Dems and the Repos what we want.

[slipslidingaway]

46. That is a great idea and I think people need to learn more about

single-payer HC.

On the other hand it is not a bad idea to educate ourselves on the system that could be proposed by the new administration.

I posted a thread in GD if anyone wants to comment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[John Q. Citizen]

48. a few weeks ago I met in a group with Max Baucus' aide who came

to our meeting on health care reform.

His outline for his bill is right here.
http://finance.senate.gov/healthreform2009/finalwhitepa...

It's a hodge podge multi-payer public and private approach that uses our tax dollars for private insurance and is similar to the failed and discredited plan that Romney passed in MA.

The best parts of a bad bill are the\

1. Community rating
2. A pubic pool component that people can buy instead of buying private insurance
3. Mandatory minimum levels of coverage


The problem is that the cost will skyrocket and people won't be able to afford health care.

See MA for a real life map to the future.