Climate scientists: it's time for 'Plan B'

[IndianaGreen]

Source: The Independent (UK)

Climate scientists: it's time for 'Plan B'

Poll of international experts by The Independent reveals consensus that CO2 cuts have failed – and their growing support for technological intervention

By Steve Connor, Science Editor and Chris Green
Friday, 2 January 2009

An emergency "Plan B" using the latest technology is needed to save the world from dangerous climate change, according to a poll of leading scientists carried out by The Independent. The collective international failure to curb the growing emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere has meant that an alternative to merely curbing emissions may become necessary.

The plan would involve highly controversial proposals to lower global temperatures artificially through daringly ambitious schemes that either reduce sunlight levels by man-made means or take CO2 out of the air. This "geoengineering" approach – including schemes such as fertilising the oceans with iron to stimulate algal blooms – would have been dismissed as a distraction a few years ago but is now being seen by the majority of scientists we surveyed as a viable emergency backup plan that could save the planet from the worst effects of climate change, at least until deep cuts are made in CO2 emissions.

What has worried many of the experts, who include recognised authorities from the world's leading universities and research institutes, as well as a Nobel Laureate, is the failure to curb global greenhouse gas emissions through international agreements, namely the Kyoto Treaty, and recent studies indicating that the Earth's natural carbon "sinks" are becoming less efficient at absorbing man-made CO2 from the atmosphere.

Levels of CO2 have continued to increase during the past decade since the treaty was agreed and they are now rising faster than even the worst-case scenarios from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a United Nations body. In the meantime the natural absorption of CO2 by the world's forests and oceans has decreased significantly. Most of the scientists we polled agreed that the failure to curb emissions of CO2, which are increasing at a rate of 1 per cent a year, has created the need for an emergency "plan B" involving research, development and possible implementation of a worldwide geoengineering strategy.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change...

---

The time to act is already past!

[.... callchet ....]

1. Well

there willbe enough people out of work world wide to make up for any increases of CO2

[caseymoz]

38. Ironic isn't it? De-regulated capitalism might accomplish what it thwarted.

A lowering of CO2 emissions, and by ruining the world economy in exactly the way it accused in environmentalists of doing.

[ElboRuum]

2. Yeah, but...

...being a science geek, I've seen some of the proposed geoengineering items currently on the table. They have all the makings of a "what could possibly go wrong... oh, THAT" scenario. Some are borderline frightening in their (IMHO) hubris.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. As Rumsfeld might have said, it's the unknown unknowns that are the scariest.

There are no massive interventions that come without unintended consequences.

[ElboRuum]

40. I guess what I'm saying...

...is that other than the already massive "intervention" of industry, pollution, etc... all having some deleterious effect culminating in what we see now, we've never actually intentionally tried anything even closely resembling what is being proposed. This "geoengineering" is nothing if not as exotic as rudimentary terraforming.

[Lifetimedem]

53. and that is the point IMO

[azul]

6. Then what about methane?

It is a large contributor to the earth cooking recipe, has a shorter life span in the air, and the source can be quickly cut down by reducing human animal farming.

(And who knows, it may have the serendipitous effect of losing our taste for killing each other coincident with losing the taste and craving for blood.)

[cliffordu]

11. Well...Yeah.

[hatrack]

20. You mean this methane?

EDIT

"Five years ago, I was not sure it's very serious, but now I'm sure something is going on and we should warn people," says Igor Semiletov from the University of Alaska in Fairbanks, chief scientist of the International Siberian Shelf Study, an oceanographic expedition that surveyed the entire Siberian coastline this summer. The study found methane bubbling up from the seafloor over hundreds of square kilometres in the Laptev and East Siberian Seas, according to Semiletov (see Fears surface over methane leaks).

Water measurements indicate that methane concentrations were up to 200 times higher than the background levels, he says. In earlier, less extensive studies in the 1990s, Semiletov did not find such significant releases of methane. "Based on the newly obtained data, we suggest an increase of methane releases from the East Siberian Arctic Shelf," he says.

Methane is a potent greenhouse gas, and scientists estimate that the Arctic permafrost — both on land and underwater — could hold trillions of tons of methane stored mostly in the form of frozen gas hydrates, says Semiletov. The submerged permafrost is on the threshold of melting, and air temperatures in the East Siberian Arctic Shelf have increased by as much as five degrees Celsius over the last decade, he says. "We didn't know that this huge carbon pool is extremely vulnerable."

The impact of such methane releases remains unknown, however. At this point, researchers lack enough data to say whether enough methane is escaping from the Siberian continental shelf to affect the globe, says Edward Brook of Oregon State University in Corvallis, who says he has not seen the new data that Semiletov presented. In a report also released on 16 December by the US Climate Change Science Program, Brook and his colleagues concluded that a catastrophic release of methane is very unlikely this century, although they project that climate change will speed up methane emissions from hydrates and other sources. The report calls for more monitoring of atmospheric methane to determine if any abrupt changes are developing.

EDIT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081217/full/news.2008.1...

[bemildred]

23. Yep, that's the methane.

We can all live at 8000 feet, or higher, real soon now.

[caseymoz]

37. There are huge methane pockets beneath the ocean floors.

Right next the the continental shelfs, in fact. If there's a quake, and one of those actually burped, it could be a extreme natural disaster, and after that, it might effect the climate for a long time.

[Barrett808]

9. Unfortunately, these ideas don't help ocean acidification + a geo-engineered world is a drier world

These two facts rule out many of the geo-engineering options, like space optics and sulfate injection. The Cquestrate plan (http://www.cquestrate.com/the-idea ) is the only one I'm aware of that might achieve gigaton-scale drawdown while also increasing ocean pH.

[Ghost Dog]

46. Cquestrate employs an interesting 'open source' approach

to the required R&D. I'll be following closely.

Australia's Nullabor Plain is mentioned as a candidate location (limestone + abundant isolated solar energy); Morocco's Atlas Mountains ( and pre-Atlas) limestone + the Sahara's abundant isolated solar energy could provide a similar combination, perhaps.

Clearly, the energy cost of limestone mining needs to be added into the equations.

And, the problem of potentially poisoning marine life must be carefully addressed...

[caseymoz]

34. If we get desperate enough for solutions . . .

There's enough things that could always go wrong, and usually the first trial with an untried technology is probably going to fail.

[caseymoz]

35. delete please, wrong place.

nt

[Window]

52. Sounds quite frightening. K/R for importance.

[azul]

4. Do you ever feel like a locust that looks around at the swarm and

says, oh shit.

But Nature seems to muddle through these mass extinctions somehow, and come up with interesting and brave new species when things stabilize, in good time.

Humans, fortunately, have deciphered the genetic code and may be able to adapt somehow.


1983... (A Merman I Should Turn To Be)

I guess Jimi would've used 1985 if he could find a rhyme, as in after 1984.

[MasonJar]

5. America and its lifestyle are mainly to blame; in addition, our refusal to elect

government officials who will do anything but protect the wealthy makes us doubly culpable. The USA is a very dangerous country and society.

[azul]

7. I would argue that it's not mainly the people, but the souless

and indifferent-to-suffering corporate personhoods that have hijacked our government that are sinking this country in shame and ruin.

Amend the 14 amendment to make clear that businesses are not legal persons, and see what happens.

[silverojo]

8. China and India aren't exactly blameless

A lot more people there than here, and our emissions guidelines are far stricter than that of China.

Not saying the U.S. hasn't played a big role, just saying that if we don't get those two very populous countries to do something, it's not going to help much.

[ElboRuum]

41. This is a primary issue...

Without the cooperation of Asia, very little of what we do will matter much considering their pollutionary output.

[Still Sensible]

71. Agreed...

and the fact that China lucked out during the Olympics so the world didn't see what their day-to-day dirty air really looks like was too bad.

[defendandprotect]

12. "Refusal..." ---

Rather, it looks like we've had stolen elections over the past 40 or so years . . .

First by shaving the wheels of the mechanical vote counters ---

Then by bringing in the large computers used by MSM to report election results ---

and finally, by rigging of every kind including the electronic voting machines.

The right-wing only comes to power thru political violence and theft --

We've known about Global Warming for more than 50 years ---

and only the oil industry took steps: Heavy propaganda to disinform the public.

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[Lorien]

15. Eight years of Bush may have sealed the planet's fate

eight years of Al Gore could have saved us all.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Time was already running out by 2000

Bush made matters worse.

[caseymoz]

39. But, it's the only country we have,

and we can't collectively divorce it, so we have to improve it.

[.... callchet ....]

10. There is

not a clue as to what some of those incredible schemes will do in the long run. The trillion mirrors could doom the earth for generations. The blooms in the ocean could cause a thermal inversion that could trigger tidal waves. Its too bad that what has happened has happened. The only logical action would be to convert the co2, and in the meantime we have a worldwide economic depression. So maybe some public works projects could be activated to convert the co2 . Obama must look to the end game and act now.

"People First"

[StarryNite]

13. Chemtrails?

~snip~

Injecting the air with particles to reflect sunlight

Volcanic eruptions release huge amounts of sulphate particles into the upper atmosphere, where they reflect sunlight. After Mount Pinatubo erupted in 1991, sulphates reflected enough sunlight to cool the Earth by 0.5C for a year or two. The Nobel Laureate Paul Crutzen suggested in 2006 that it may be possible to inject artificial sulphate particles into the upper atmosphere – the stratosphere. However, the idea does not address ocean acidification caused by rising CO2 levels. There may be side-effects such as acid rain and adverse effects on agriculture.

[dbt]

51. Yep!

Little by little, the scientific community is admitting that it wishes to engage in--or has been engaging in for some time now, IMO--the manufacture of cloud cover by jet aircraft, just as Teh Crazies have been saying all along.

[jwirr]

14. Anything to keep from changing our lifestyles.

[ElboRuum]

42. I think the point that they are making is...

...that we may have already passed the point of no return with that.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DRoseDARs]

25. Wholly uncalled for post. n/t

[.... callchet ....]

17. A very

easy first step would be to paint all parking lots, highways and roof tops white. i painted the roof on my house here in Florida white. I save about $900 a year on my power bill. I'll bet that is the single largest reduction of a personal carbon foot print. In addition my house was the only house in the neighborhood that didn't have to have the roof replaced after hurricane Ivan. Saving more asphalt shingles. How about helping me to get the world to paint roofs, parking lots and highways white.

" People First "

[FlaGranny]

48. You know, that

is a very simple and very useful suggestion for hot climates, but not so useful for cold climates. They'd probable do better with black roofs.

[.... callchet ....]

58. Global warming

Reason first

[.... callchet ....]

60. Global Warming

Painting all exposed surfaces. All highways, parking lots. driveways, sidewalks and other non power consuming surfaces would be painted white. Surfaces that affected power usage would either be black, white or gray. Lines of latitude would be drawn. Starting from the North and going south the first line would end black roofs, the next line would end gray roofs. Sunshine hours per year affecting power being used for either heating or cooling would determine the lines. The sides of houses would be involved in much the same manner. For instance in Florida, everything would be white.
I painted the roof of my house white before Hurricane Ivan. The paint strengthened my roof to the point that I was the only house in my area that did not have to have the shingles replaced. This alone would have been a monumental insurance saving. In addition my power bill is reduced about $900 a year. This is probably the largest contribution an individual can do to reduce his carbon foot print. Please help spread this plan.
Note: I have read various references to this idea over time.


This not only saves electricity, but the amount of light reflected and not changed into heat would be astronomical. Please help spread this plan.

" People First "

" People First "

P. S. Compliance would be very obvious

[SKKY]

57. Some may see this as silly, but it's actually a very, very good idea...

And, not withstanding the sudden run on white paint, could make a dramatic change in less than 1 year.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Related story: Climate change policies failing, Nasa scientist warns Obama

Climate change policies failing, Nasa scientist warns Obama

Award-winning researcher James Hansen says new president's rhetoric must be backed by action
James Randerson, science correspondent
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 1 January 2009 15.23 GMT

Current approaches to deal with climate change are ineffectual, one of the world's top climate scientists said today in a personal new year appeal to Barack Obama and his wife Michelle on the urgent need to tackle global warming.

With less than three weeks to go until Obama's inauguration, Prof James Hansen, head of Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, asked the recently appointed White House science adviser Prof John Holdren to pass the missive directly to the president-elect.

Obama spoke repeatedly during his campaign about the need to tackle climate change, and environmentalists fervently hope he will live up to his promises to pursue green policies.

The letter, from Hansen and his wife Anniek, is a personal plea to the first couple. It begins: "We write to you as fellow parents concerned about the Earth that will be inherited by our children, grandchildren, and those yet to be born … Jim has advised governments previously through regular channels. But urgency now dictates a personal appeal."

In a covering letter to Holdren, Hansen explains that he wrote the letter a few weeks ago while in London. His wife had suffered a heart attack ("fortunately we were near a very good hospital") and while they waited for doctors to give the go-ahead to fly back to the US he decided to compose his petition to the new first family.

Hansen has been one of the most prominent advocates of action to tackle climate change since he first spoke on the issue at congressional hearings in the 1980s. His testimony to the senate featured in Al Gore's film An Inconvenient Truth and he has received numerous honours for his work on the issue, including the WWF's top conservation award.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jan/01/scent...

[spag68]

21. Climate change

Am I the only one that has thought about this recession we are in helping slow the changes. Demand for fuels is dropping drastically, and that should slow all kinds of emissions. IMHO the article is right, we may need extraordinary things to solve this, but the upside is the knowledge we gain.

[.... callchet ....]

59. No you

are not the only one, but for public relations most people don't want to associate a program with human misery. Just like jumping for joy when gas reached $5 a gallon.

[shadowknows69]

22. What was plan A?

Believing really hard that industry creating green house gases was just going to voluntarily make a sea change in their policies, and thus, profit margains?

[Phoonzang]

24. It was inevitable that we'd have to do something artificial to stop climate change.

When you think about it, the idea of getting all the industrialized countries in the world to sacrifice and cut back on emissions was ridiculous.

I don't expect we'll try a technological solution for a while though. There'll be too much controversy. We'll wait until a decade or two when things have gotten really, really bad then do something.

[XemaSab]

26. Bold schemes to change the climate

scare me more than the risks of climate change.

What if chemtrails kill all the frogs? What if iron kills all the coral?

Stuff like this scares me.

[DUlover2909]

27. If temperatures rise will not the evaporation rate also rise?

More evaporation means more clouds and hence more cloud cover and of course, more rain. Wouldn't more clouds reverse the heating until there is an equilibrium?

[GliderGuider]

28. Well, Venus is pretty cloudy...

Water vapor is a very potent GHG in its own right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas#Role_of_wat...

[Barrett808]

30. Water vapor can, in principle, cause a "runaway greenhouse effect"

Which is what we think happened to Venus.

Fortunately, Earth seems to be far enough away from the sun that we're below the threshold insolation required to trigger the runaway.

[sutz12]

29. More evaporation does not automatically mean more clouds..

Higher air temperatures allow more water vapor absorption and fewer cloud formations. Clouds come as a result of air cooling, allowing moisture to condense into droplets. Warm air allows more invisible water vapor, which still blocks heat radiation to space.

[DUlover2909]

32. Thanks for the explanation. I understand the problem better now.

Thanks to others providing the Venus analogy.

[tinrobot]

31. Plan B will only push back the inevitable

We have too many people with too much stuff on too small a planet.

We can't make the planet bigger, so unless we slow the population and use fewer resources, we're still screwed.

[NBachers]

33. Eight years of global treason by Bush and his henchmen

I pray for infinite suffering in the bowels of Hell for these people.

Real, Hieronymous Bosch-type stuff. Insane punishment with gloating, leering, bounding demons. These are the forces the Bush administration embraces. Please, Let It Be So.

[azul]

43. Explore Venus to understand Earth's climate?

I sometimes wonder if we haven't taken a wrong direction to Mars expeditions at the expense of a more mysterious Venus.

Like what if there is like some note left on Venus by some vanished race saying, "Don't let the ice caps melt and release the methane stored under the oceans. The runaway greenhouse effect cooked us all dead. WArning to Earthlings."

Or some such scientific climate trail to follow?

[Barrett808]

66. The evolution of Venus's climate is pretty well understood, and fortunately...

...Earth won't face anything similar for another billion years or so, when the sun's brightness puts it into a Venus-like situation.

[SlicerDicer-]

36. I cannot believe this article even got printed....

WTF??!?!

We fuck shit up (or think we did) and then we thing we can fuck it up worse to make it better? Those people just need to fuck off and die proposing that.. Thats horrible solutions it would be better just to leave it alone at this point. If indeed it is true we had our time and thats that. Full Stop.

Although myself I do not subscribe to Anthropogenic Global Warming so that makes it even worse for me to contemplate this garbage.

[niceypoo]

45. Yeah....

What would climatologists know about climate anyways....

[Dumak]

44. Time to throw up our hands and plead for alien intervention n/t

[tclambert]

54. Did you see the new version of "The Day the Earth Stood Still?"

Alien intervention might come in the form of "If the Earth dies, you die. If you die, the Earth survives. Gort, activate the Illudium PU-38 Space Modulator."

[riverdeep]

47. Sorry, we're too busy killing each other over strips of land

in the middle east, destroying the last of the mountain gorillas in the Congo civil war, decimating the rainforest in South America, etc. etc. for us to even take notice.

We're just like ants going about our little concerns right before the floodwaters come rushing in.

Plan C: most of humanity (along with many other animals) will perish.

[FlaGranny]

50. Plan C would cause the planet

to eventually heal itself, probably.

[RandomThoughts]

49. It is so simple.

Shareholder profits will not increase by slowing, and eventually stopping global warming. (Although green sector will try to do this, with government help)

So every CEO, that says their first duty is to make profit, will do everything they can to kill every plant, animal, and person on the planet. And if you posed the question this way to them, they would tell you they would. And say it is their job to do so.

Two options, either make it a profit motive, by mass population intervention by people not buying things that are bad, which requires telling people what is bad(which goes against corporate media profit motive), and hoping people will have the collective will to go without, until a alternative is forced onto market by demand rules.

Or use the government. Which is why government exist, because profit motive does not always work to help society!

This is not rocket science.

If TV stops people from using the government by spouting false information, then TV is actively advocating the death of every single plant, animal, and person on the planet. And maybe they should be regulated.

[machI]

56. Left to its own devices, the free market will never solve the problem of global climate change

We have the opportunity to start down the road of common sense business practices with the economic bailouts that are so much in the news.

If the automobile manufactures want Government cash, they have to produce and sell vehicles under the supervision of the Government.

The first thing is to limit the sale of SUVs to only those people who really need such a vehicle. Everyone else should have basic transportation.

Nobody should have a car as a status symbol that is a rolling armored car with more luxury than Arnold Schwarzenegger's living room. It is not that they can't spend their money as they please because these luxury cars are stealing future environment from our descendants, which the rich show-offs of today are not paying for.

[tclambert]

55. Terraforming has been a common topic in science fiction for generations

But it was always Mars or some other planet we wanted to make like the Earth. Now it seems we may have to start by retro-terraforming the Earth. It kind of makes sense because we have been un-terraforming this planet for 250 years.

Another common topic in science fiction has been aliens xeno-forming Earth, turning this planet into a place more favorable for their plants and animals. The Tom Cruise "War of the Worlds" has a little of that going on. Oh, and humans were used for fertilizer. I'm not suggesting our industrial overlords are lizard people. (Just watch close when they blink.)

My fear about trying to retro-terraform the planet is not that scientists will get the science wrong. They might, but they will try hard to get it right. My fear is that politicians will corrupt the scientific efforts. And they won't care if they get the science right, just if they make their campaign donors happy.

[Odin2005]

61. They aren't lizard people, but they are slimy snakes! n/t

[Odin2005]

62. Oops. responded to the wrong post... n/t

[Odin2005]

63. Sad that it has come to this, having to terraform out own planet

This is like doing experimental surgery in the emergency room because it's the only thing we can think to do to stabilize the patient...

[IndianaGreen]

72. Putting too much faith in technology is as silly as putting faith in a deity

Humankind will have to make drastic changes in personal behaviour and in lifestyle if we are to save the planet for our species.

[Odin2005]

78. Well if we don't start churning out electric cars and China doesn't start caring about it's...

...emissions soon faith in technology is all that's left.

[tinrobot]

74. We've already terraformed our planet.

We broke it, now we have to fix it.

[Odin2005]

77. Yup.

[PATRICK]

64. From inability to

get any rational action at all to what really amounts to rather unscientific panic chicken mode. Do something to do anything! Because these people are smart enough not to move governments or opinion but to understand the horrors ahead will affect them too.

Next it will be competition to offer the best lifeboats so long as you take the scientist aboard.

This is indicative of larger disasters well visible. Namely that nothing really is being done. That climate change is constantly and irrevocably undersold and underestimated. That hope is becoming more a fool's commodity. Any one of the remedies being proposed might just create more harm or tragically waste resources, like a cadaverous heroin addict using some loot to buy vitamins.

Note in the short time that Gore won a Nobel Prize for restating the optimistic side of the obvious things have deteriorated to these kinds of admissions and solutions. Lost in this is the grim estimate of more realistic scientists who think we can only partly move in the direction of saving what we can. This is the decadence of cockeyed optimism in a "Titanic" scenario and all you will get from the media outside of the human interest story of never connected catastrophes- which in fact are minor symptoms of climate change itself.

[Madison knows]

65. Earth to the "experts,"

relax and take a deep breath.

First, in 2008, the global temperature was cooler than we have seen in the past few years.

Second, with the slowdown of the world's economy, CO2 emissions will decrease proportionally.

Finally, the last thing we need is a bunch a mad scientists implementing risky and "daringly ambitious schemes...such as fertilising the oceans with iron to stimulate algal blooms."

Besides that, there is no money to pay for employing unproven theories like this.

[Amonester]

67. The only one scheme I have no fear of is

the one that pumps the CO2 directly out of the air.

Then cut off the C particles, bury 'em deep (or whatever), and "free" the O2 (for more Oxigen in the air).

[Madison knows]

79. Well, that is no doubt the safe way.

But wouldn't be nice if they could recycle the C absolutely?

[Odin2005]

69. If you thing Global warming is an "unproven theory" I have a nice spot under a bridge I'd...

...like to sell ya.

[Madison knows]

80. Huh...?

[tinrobot]

73. Wrong, wrong, wrong...

First, in 2008, the global temperature was cooler than we have seen in the past few years.

Wrong. Cooler than the past few years, but still warmer than past few decades. Also, if you haven't noticed, the ice caps melted at record rates last year. I would imagine that flush of arctic meltwater into the oceans might have something to do with our current cold snap.

Second, with the slowdown of the world's economy, CO2 emissions will decrease proportionally.

Wrong. If you haven't noticed, the price of oil has dropped and people are buying SUVs again. Carbon is cheap, so people are not going to spend extra for hybrids or electric cars.

Finally, the last thing we need is a bunch a mad scientists implementing risky and "daringly ambitious schemes...such as fertilising the oceans with iron to stimulate algal blooms."

I think letting our planet burn up would also be classified as dangerous. But on this point, you're somewhat right, because a bunch of scientists implementing a risky plan will be the last thing we need - but only because it's the last thing we can do.

[Madison knows]

81. It's cooler that it was since 2000--I'll take it.

Yes, the price of oil has dropped, but don't worry about SUV's. Because they will soon be getting 25-30 MPG. And in the future, who knows...?

Finally, although we seem to agree on the final point, I want to make it clear that scientists are not gods and they should not try to be.

[Muttocracy]

76. let me guess, you'd rather have money-mad oil executives in charge

and you need to do some research on iron nutrient limitation in the ocean. Your ignorance is showing.

[Madison knows]

82. Well, why don't you tell me all about iron nutrient limitation in the ocean?

You are an expert on the subject right?

Or are you God?

[Dover]

68. They already employ 'cloud-making' for both rain and as a solar shield.

And who knows what else they're doing without our knowledge...scientists playing God is
a very dangerous occupation when we have so little understanding of whole systems.

I don't think the climate change studies focused on terraforming Mars and other planets is
only intended for use beyond our planet.

[Odin2005]

70. Desperate times calls for desperate meseaures.

If societies continue to refuse to do anything to control CO2 I don't see any other choice other then climate manipulation. That time is fast approaching.

[debbierlus]

75. Now I know why Gore didn't run for the Presidency & focused on this -

Oh man.

Oh. man.
Oh man