Israeli air strikes target Gaza

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

Palestinians say Israeli F-16 bombers have launched a series of air strikes against key targets in the Gaza Strip, killing and injuring dozens of people.

Missiles hit security compounds run by the militant group Hamas in the centre of Gaza City, killing at least 40 people, Hamas officials said.

The strikes, the most intense Israeli attacks on Gaza in recent times, come after the expiry of a truce with Hamas.

Israel has threatened an offensive to stop the firing of rockets from Gaza.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7800985.st...

---

Death toll rising fast. Now updated to 120.

[Selatius]

1. This stupidity will never end in my lifetime, I fear. nt

[Parmenion]

2. Game over

Hamas is now going to respond with the better missiles in their arsenal; Israel will bomb even more, and we will soon slip into a cycle of violence taking us through the gates of hell.

[Ghost Dog]

3. It is time to impose strict international sanctions on Israel. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

6. For responding to a week of bombing (200 missiles)?

When was the last time an Iraqi or Afghan missile landed in the US? the UK? Canada?

Maybe it is time for some people to wake up and realize Hamas no more wants a Palestinian homeland that isn't all of Israel, any more than Warren wants gays in his church.

[shadowknows69]

15. But you think that Iraq and Afghanistan should be able to attack us right?

After all, we shot first in those particular fights.

[RJ Connors]

68. Your right they do not want a Palestinian homeland

They want their fucking country back that was stolen from them by force. Easy enough to understand.

But I suppose in the state where you live if an Indian tribe made a claim on your state, based on their religious text, and back by the full power of the U.S. military, you would probably go, "Oh sure, just let me gather up my stuff here and I'll move right out of the state."

[Behind the Aegis]

128. Wow, that's some serious crap.

You obviously don't know jack shit about the situation but rather spew far-leftist bullshit propaganda. Why not come out and say it....you think Israel should cease to exist! Go ahead, it is in the Hamas charter.

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tesha]

98. It's funny how the frame here is always "Israel responding to Palestinian attacks"

rather than "Palestine responding to Israeli attacks".

In fact, they each respond to each other's attacks, over and over
again, tracing back endlessly, or at least into the 1940s.

BTW, how many did the Palestinians kill in their most-recent round
of attacks? How many did the Israelis kill?

Tesha

[Pavulon]

100. At least two of theor own

by firing an unguided weapon, let me repeat, something that kills and has no guidance system, into a house with a toddler and 13 year old. Except these dead people were Palestinians not Israeli.

Hamas chooses to attack blindly. Speaks volumes.

[Tesha]

107. I note that you did not address, let alone refute, my point. (NT)

[Pavulon]

108. A dozen or so random people

by unguided rockets. What it looks like in reuters. This is not stats class. If mexico was randomly killing texans with unguided weapons we would not respond in the same manner.

Looks like the targets today were not random but people who carry guns for hamas.

[Tesha]

114. Such as legally-constituted police forces?

And you still haven't responded to my point about "the frame".

Tesha

[The Stranger]

133. For murdering Palestinian civilians.

And the Warren reference -- is that some kind of joke? Israel prevents Palestinians from coming back to their ancestral homes, yet lets Jews from anywhere in the world (but Palestine) settle in those very homes. And it is based on their ethnicity.

You REALLY don't want to follow the Warren reference to its logical conclusion. Trust me, you really don't want to do it. You might want to think about South Africa when it comes to parallels with Israel.

[booyahjohnson]

152. Your arguments are futile.

Anyone at this point who supports the actions of hamas and rejects Israel's right to defend itself will not be persuaded by logic or facts.

They simply do not want Israel to succeed or are unable to understand the concepts of war. The best thing is for the entire world to condemn Israel, thus freeing her up to finally do whatever is necessary to fix the problem.

But this will never be the case. The world dangles just enough carrot in front of Israel to ensure it can neither win nor lose.

[DetlefK]

30. Israel opened the border, and Hamas nevertheless kept on bombing. What should Israel have done?

Death toll now at 155.

[JeanGrey]

87. Please don't talk any sense when it comes to Israel.

You might upset somebody.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pavulon]

137. Hamas should change its charter

or expect rockets to be met with rockets. The fact they use shit weapons does not mean they have no intent to kill. They randomly kill women and kids. They could shoot aimed rifle fire at israeli soldiers. That would make them soldiers. Shooting unguided weapons makes them fair game.

[Thothmes]

111. What about the dumb bastards firing 3" rockets

in to Isreal.

[Ghost Dog]

4. Report: At least 120 dead in Israeli airstrikes on Gaza City

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[backwoodsbob]

14. maybe...just maybe

Hamas will figure out launching hundreds of rockets and mortars into Israel is a bad idea?

That region needs someone to set both sides in a timeout

[shadowknows69]

17. Yeah, they'll suddenly come to that conclusion out of the blue after all this time

An eye for an eye causes nothing but blindness.

[JeanGrey]

88. They will never figure it out.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoesTo11]

5. Maybe the ceasefire wasn't such a bad thing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/19/2451630.h...



Rockets fired in Gaza Strip after Hamas ends ceasefire

Posted Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:02pm AEDT

Palestinian militants have fired two rockets from the Gaza Strip into southern Israel following the announcement of the end of the ceasefire by Hamas.

[Countdown_3_2_1]

7. Hamas commited acts of war

by deliberately firing hundreds of rockets and mortars into Israeli civilian areas.

Israel doesn't need sanctions: Hamas does. Hamas is the villain here.

If Mexican drug cartels started firing rockets into US towns and cities, would President Obama just sit there and take it? No. He would bomb their ass.

I find it truly amazing that some people are BLIND to the atrocities Hamas commits, but scream like little girls every time Israel defends herself.
Some of you guys need to grow up.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[subsuelo]

72. Fighting terrorism with terrorism will always be opposed by me

Sorry you have such a problem with that.

[JeanGrey]

89. I have a problem with self defense called terrorism.

[Truth2Tell]

124. Most of the targets of Israeli terrorism

are not the perpetrators of the terrorism against Israel. They are innocents.

The biggest difference for me is that my tax dollars aren't paying for the Palestinian terrorism, just the Israeli terrorism.

[booyahjohnson]

151. Your tax dollars are going to Hamas..

Whether you like it or not, your tax dollars indirectly fund Hamas. Most direct example is that humanitarian aid for palestinians in the Gaza strip displaces funding requirements so that money is available for guns.

You should be more concerned that your gas money funds Hamas terrorism. But I'm willing to bet you don't believe that Hamas are terrorists, now do you?

[Truth2Tell]

164. "the most direct example"

you can come up with is that humanitarian aid "displaces" funds? Really? By that measure just about every humanitarian expenditure on earth funds terrorism. Nice try.

And I do believe Hamas engages in terrorism. So do the US and most other Western nations. And while I don't excuse any of it, I can understand it a bit more coming from desperate people like the Palestinians than I can from Imperial aggressors like the US and Israel.

[JeanGrey]

169. Bullshit. Like Hamas targets innocents.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laststeamtrain]

9. Could an election be on the way?

Elections for the eighteenth Knesset were due to be held in Israel in 2010. However, following the resignation of Ehud Olmert as Kadima leader, and the failure of his successor, Tzipi Livni, to form a coalition government, they will be held on 10 February 2009...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_legislative_electi...

That usually means dead people:

Bodies of Palestinians are seen at Shifa hospital in Gaza City December 27, 2008. Israel's air force fired about 30 missiles at targets in the Gaza Strip on Saturday, destroying several Hamas police compounds and killing more than 140 people, medical officials and witnesses said. REUTERS/Suhaib Salem (GAZA)

[harun]

81. I wonder if it is also because a new prez is taking office in the U.S. as well

One that won't be as pro-oppression as the last one.

[shadowknows69]

10. Thank Gods only members of Hamas were killed

Do I need the sarcasm thingy? Someone explain to me again why Israel is better than anyone else?

[Behind the Aegis]

11. "Someone explain to me again why Israel is better than anyone else?"

It will be explained as soon as you provide proof that such a claim has been made.

[shadowknows69]

12. Gee, I don't know, our national policy toward them seems to say that.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bahrbearian]

61. "Israel never attacked its Neighbors."

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Abq_Sarah]

49. Better?

That's an odd thing to say.

In terms of restraint, Israel is certainly "better" than Hamas. They've taken over 200 mortar and rocket attacks from Hamas in the last week. 3000 this year and this is the first major response.

[Hannah Bell]

75. right. it's why their kill rate is so low. not.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.as...

[shadowknows69]

83. 4800 Palestinian dead to less than 500 Israeli

Yeah, those were measured responses. Only the U.S. is better at doling out horrible revenge.

[Posteritatis]

84. Therefore Israelis are approximately 9.60 times more evil than Palestinian!

Numbers games on things like this are ridiculous.

[Thothmes]

112. Would you prefer a one to one kill ration?

[Countdown_3_2_1]

16. IAF strike 100 targets.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=123011171496...
Its a good read, worth clicking the link.

[subsuelo]

19. both sides recklessly attack civilians

How brave and courageous

[GoesTo11]

27. Doesn't seem like Israel was aiming for civilians.

Hamas's Interior Ministry said that all security compounds in Gaza were destroyed.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=123011171496...

The first wave of air strikes was launched by a 60 warplanes which hit a total of 50 targets in one fell swoop. The IAF deployed approximately 100 bombs, with an estimated 95 percent of the ordnance reaching its intended target. Most of the casualties were Hamas operatives.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050359.html



Lucky shot?

[subsuelo]

59. Oh, yes, they would never ever hurt a Palestinian civilian

it's just an odd coincidence that the vast majority of killed civilians in the conflict are Palestinian.

[GoesTo11]

65. Hamas operates from civilian locations

If Israel feels the need to attack Hamas, it's not really possible to do it without involving civilians. Not an odd coincidence, just the way it is. And Israel has made a decision to attack Hamas in spite of the fact that some civilians will inevitably be hit.

I understand that you might oppose Israel's attacking Hamas, but they're not out to get civilians. If Israel was out to get civilians, they would bomb as many civilians as they could. Sort of like what Palestinians usually do when they single out civilian targets like buses and restaurants for attack.

If you want to argue that Israel should leave Hamas alone, let's hear your case. If you want to argue that Israel should tolerate attacks on its civilians from Hamas because countering them would cause too much harm to Palestinian civilians, make your case. But it's just illogical to imply that Israel is trying to kill civilians.

[subsuelo]

71. Should Hamas tolerate periodic massacres?

[GoesTo11]

79. Not by targeting civilians.

That has nothing to do with what I said - if you want, you can argue that Hamas was smart to reject the ceasefire. But be factual - Hamas intentionally targets civilians. Israeli Military - targets Hamas. So let's hear your argument that Hamas should target civilians. If you want to argue that Hamas has been the best thing for the Palestinian people since olives, go ahead and argue that too.

[Pavulon]

80. They kill their own

unguided weapon they were trying to fire into israel (no target) killed a toddler and 13 year old. Hamas is scum that intentionally kills with no discrimination.

[Hayduke Lives]

125. That logic is so tired

The Pentagon killed more Afghan civilians in the first 3 months of the Afghan war than were killed on 9/11 (those are the Pentagon's own figures). Nobody called it terrorism. Why? Because the Pentagon is well funded. If you drop bombs from expensive aircraft, it's not terrorism. See how this works?

Israel has the moral high ground, because their missiles were designed by well-groomed Lockheed engineers in Bethesda Maryland. The Katusha rockets were built by seedy little men with mustaches.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I know - in my hear of hearts - that Israel is of no strategic importance to me. None. I know they have nice beaches and make some mediocre wine, but I rarely drink it. We have sacrificed way too much for this little patch of desert. I am done thinking about it. It means nothing to me. I have little in common with the Palestinians except my humanity. I root for them only because they're getting jerked around by a bunch of violent arrogant thugs. But in the end, I don't even care much about them. I want out of the Middle East. While my tax money goes to support one group of religious nutbags, I wish a pox on both their houses...and the petty little god they all worship. He's nothing but a cheesy little real-estate agent anyway, to hear the religious types talk about him.

Stop talking about the middle east! Ignore it...it doesn't matter. It's a barren wasteland! Our oil comes mostly from Canada and Venezuela. Let's focus our foreign policy on the Canucks. That "Holy Land" label was just so much marketing shtick by the old Byzantium Chamber of Commerce. Besides, I know for a fact that the real Holy Land is actually near Toulamne Meadows in Yosemite National Park. I've seen it with my own eyes.

[Ghost Dog]

165. Nice one about the Yosemite Holy Land.

Actually, I think you'll find that it is this planet itself, and especially its BIOSPHERE (including 'deserts'), that is Holy.

[SlowDownFast]

168. Good post. n/t

[Posteritatis]

85. It might help if they stopped trying to earn periodic massacres (nt)

[Tesha]

101. Hamas is the legitimately-elected government of Palestine.

Therefore, they operate from everywhere in their territory-that-ought-
to-be-a-country.

Tesha

[Pavulon]

104. Bush was elected here...

elections have far reaching impacts. Look at your 401k to see. This is not a bush election thread. It is a clear pointer to the impact of morons running things.

They made a bad choice, hamas is sworn to destroy israel. So now they are doing their job, lets see how that works out for them.

[shadowknows69]

130. And we and Israel have sworn to destroy groups like Hamas

Kind of a vicious circle isn't it?

[Pavulon]

132. But not their wives and kids, they make no distinction

hamas is not capable of killing everyone in Israel to a man. Israel is able to inflict massive death on the citizens of gaza, but does not.

[shadowknows69]

143. I'd say it was pretty massive to about 155 people

[Pavulon]

146. Guys in black uniforms

are not civilians. We killed pletny of thousands in a few hours in GW1, they were wearing uniforms.

Military targets and collateral. That is the cost of war. Hamas refused a cease fire.

[shadowknows69]

148. Doesn't matter how many times you say it

Fighting monsters by becoming a monster gives you no moral high ground at all.

[Pavulon]

150. War is fought by killing people

hamas does it, israel does it. There is no high ground. Hamas has sworn to destroy a state, is using violence, and was all over NPR talking about how ready and happy they were to die.

Now they are being killed. Seems rational to me. Israel should just take kassams up the ass until when?

[Thothmes]

113. As a legitimately-elected government of Palestine

they have committed an act of War against Isreal by firing katushas into Israelie territory. They reap what the sow.

[Tesha]

116. And Israel responded with war crimes by attacks that killed many, many non-combatants.

NB: Whether or not the Palestinian acts are *ALSO* war crimes is
immaterial to determining whether the Israeli acts are themselves
war crimes.

Tesha

[Pavulon]

117. Hamas fucked up

shooting rockets and expecting them to do nothing. So they blew up hamas facilities. Hamas is sworn to destroy israel. Guess they are doing their job.

They both need to stand down and accept a solution.

[The Stranger]

136. Israel has blockaded Gaza for months now. Wake up, my friend.

Israel is sworn to destroy Hamas and isn't threatening to take their land -- Israeli settlers are settling it (taking it) every day.

And the Israeli government once SUPPORTED HAMAS TO TRY TO OVERTHROW ARAFAT.

Wake up, my friend.

[Pavulon]

141. Hamas is sworn to destroy israel

and shoots unguided weapons to kill civilians. Surprised when they refuse a truce and die? The were on NPR all last week saying how ready they were to die, well looks some progress was made.

When they start fighting like men using rifles and weapons to attack Israeli militarily they then have a position.

[Thothmes]

123. Were those people the intended targets of Israels attack

If they were not the target, the war crime argument is without substance. FDR killed hundreds of thousands of Germans and Japanese civilians during WWII. They were not the intended targets. HST killed thousands of Koreans civilians during the Korean war, they were not the intended targets. LBJ killed hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese, they were not the intended targets. Are these people war criminals also. It is easy to say that so and so is a war criminal because civilians that were never the intended targets got killed. Did the Israelis target these people specifically. The leaders of Israel and Hamas need to be held accountable for their actions. It is not a one way street. Dare say, if Hamas had not been firing into Israel, they in turn would not have been attacked.

[JeanGrey]

170. And as they have proven again and again, stupider than Bush.

[The Stranger]

135. They can't be that bad of a shot -- hundreds of civilians murdered?

And it was all an accident? Come on.

[Pavulon]

142. Those uniforms

the dead guys were wearing makes them not civilians. Hamas is sworn to kill Israelis and does so. Now they get killed, cant be all that surprised.

When they fight among civilians they are responsible for killing those people. They could pick up a rifle and fight at checkpoints. They choose not to.

[shadowknows69]

145. Oh for fuck's sake

There probably isn't enough left of most of the victims to determine their "uniforms". And how is a Police graduation ceremony an imminent missle threat exactly. Sounds more like a preemptive strike to me.

[Pavulon]

147. Reuters pictures and getty

shows dead guys in black uniforms. Hamas standard, when they wear them.

[EconomicLiberal]

20. More dead civilians at the hands of Isreal's bombs.

They must be so proud of themselves.

[oberliner]

21. Do you have information about dead civilians?

The article indicates that the targets were militant bases and security compounds.

The article does not identify any civilian casualties, but cites fears that there may have been some.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oberliner]

33. That was a Hamas police officer graduation ceremony

Among the dead was the Gaza police chief, Maj. Gen. Tawfiq Jaber, witnesses told reporters. He was in a police compound in Gaza City that had been hosting a graduation ceremony for new personnel when it was attacked.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3904680,00.html

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftchick]

46. do dead Palestinian Policemen count?

Bodies of Palestinian Policemen killed in the Israeli airstrike (Photo of Al-Jazeera TV)

or refugees?



Residents carry a body out of the Bureij refugee camp

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/20...

<snip>

Mustafa Barghouthi, the former Palestinian information minister, said: "This is not an attack on the Hamas. It is an attack on the whole population and the free will of the people of Gaza."

He accused Israel of committing "war crimes" and demanded that Abbas and his government stop all relations with Israel.



Smoke billowed into the air above the Gaza Strip

oh but they are indeed 'smart' bombs right?

[The Stranger]

138. Gaza doesn't have a military, oberliner. Police are not military.

And the term "militants" doesn't really say anything at all -- activists are often described as "militant."

If the article doesn't report of the scores of civilians murdered at the hands of Israel, perhaps that is part of the problem right there.

[Pavulon]

149. A guy standing over a kassam

is a military target. And should expect a 20mm round up his ass. The guys that put him there, command and control, are targets and should expect a guided weapon in their living room.

That is how it works.

[RCinBrooklyn]

22. Israel is a war state. Always has been, always will be. It's their consistent policy.

[Pavulon]

26. Seems that three wars

where killing everyone in your borders may make you that way.

[The Stranger]

139. Usually when you occupy your neighbors and settle their land, they aren't going to like you much.

Usually.

[Pavulon]

144. See africa

for a real conflict and catastrophic loss. This is a scuffle over land. That's it.

Loose wars, loose land.

[GoesTo11]

29. Typo.

Israel is a state and always will be.

[graywarrior]

23. Macho fucking bullshit

[inanna]

24. recommended

[ohio2007]

25. ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[harun]

31. U.S. tax dollars at work.

[Pavulon]

34. Egypt too.

just not a big lifestyle to protest the Egyptians. Main Battle Tank M1 Abrams. Operate US aircraft. 2 billion a year in us dollars to Egypt.

Nobody protesting that.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pavulon]

35. Hamas is itching for a fight.

now they have one. Pretty simple. They have been shit talking and shooting rockets all week.

[ohio2007]

44. impossible

Dover
Israel opens Gaza crossings, easing tensions
Advertisements Source: Reuters

GAZA, Dec 26 (Reuters) - Israel reopened border crossings with the Gaza Strip on Friday, easing tensions a day after Prime Minister Ehud Olmert issued a "last-minute" warning to Hamas militants to stop firing rockets or pay a heavy price.

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak said he ordered the crossings opened for "essential humanitarian" supplies, in response to numerous requests from the international community.

Palestinian workers at the crossings said fuel had arrived for Gaza's main power plant and trucks loaded with grain had crossed into the impoverished enclave, which has been under a tight Israeli blockade since Hamas took control in 2007.

Raed Fattouh, coordinator of supplies, said about 90 trucks loaded with grain, humanitarian aid and goods for the private sector were due to come in to Gaza during the day.

The deliveries may ease tensions that Israeli media said would inevitably end in significant military action to end rocket attacks. ...>

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LQ423343.htm

1. "stop firing rockets or pay a heavy price" ?

interesting threat but but when it's all said and done,do they really care what Olmert says ?




Palestinian rocket misfires, kills 2 girls in Gaza

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – A crude rocket fired by Palestinian militants fell short of its target in Israel on Friday, striking a house in the northern Gaza Strip and killing two schoolgirls.

The attack came as Israel sent mixed signals over its plans to respond to continuing Palestinian rocket fire.

snip

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081226/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_i ...


They still don't even recognize Israel.

Things should get interesting in two weeks ;

Report: Iran preps humanitarian aid ship to Gaza Strip
snip
"Despite the Zionist regime's opposition ... this consignment will leave Bandar Abbas for Palestine on Saturday and will arrive in 12 days," a provincial Red Crescent director, Ahmad Navvab, was quoted as telling the French news agency AFP.
snip
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050377.html



That is IF they can get safe passage past pirate infested waters


http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnJOE4BJ060.html

2. Maybe the EU will talk sense into them
Israel attacks Gaza, more than 155 reported killed

snip

European Union Foreign Policy Chief Javier Solana called for an immediate ceasefire. "We are very concerned at the events in Gaza. We call for an immediate ceasefire and urge everybody to exert maximum restraint," his spokesman said.

.....

At the main Gaza City graduation ceremony, uniformed bodies lay in a pile and the wounded writhed in pain, television pictures showed. Rescuers carried those showing signs of life to cars and ambulances, while others tried to revive the unconscious.

Hamas armed wing spokesman Abu Ubaida said the Islamist group would "teach the enemy a lesson they will never forget," and brushed aside Israeli threats to target its leaders.

Witnesses reported heavy Israeli bombing along Gaza's border with Egypt. Palestinians use hundreds of tunnels under the border to bring in everything from goods to weapons, making them prime Israeli targets.

Olmert had warned Hamas, which seized control of the coastal enclave in June 2007, to stop firing rockets.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081227/wl_nm/us_palestinia ...

Wonder if any video of the graduation ceremony will get leaked out to the internet.


in the meantime, president elect Obama seems to be in the dark

Several radio stations broadcast emergency information.

Gov. Linda Lingle said Hawaiian Electric Co. was taking an emergency generator to the compound on the east side of the island where Obama has been staying. Lingle said she had asked the utility to notify her when it had been delivered.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hawaii_power

Last time he was in Hawaii..... Georgia provoked Russia, this time ?

coincidence ?

Going to be an interesting new year comming in with a bang


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02b_1230343165

eom

over and out

[Posteritatis]

36. Wonder if we'll see a return to the whole "every Jew in the world is a valid target" talking points

Those were depressingly common on DU during the war in Lebanon a couple of years ago. ;P

[pixeldynasty]

38. Rocket kills 2 children after Gaza border reopens

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/26/israel.gaza.b...

"A rocket fired by Palestinian militants fell on a Gaza home and killed two children, Palestinian sources said Friday, the same day Israel opened three Gaza border crossings for the first time in 10 days."

"A third child was in critical condition. The children, all girls, were cousins -- the two who died were 7 and 12, and the injured child is 5, Hamas security and Palestinian medical sources said."

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Countdown_3_2_1]

37. Update 190 Dead. JPost Headlines

Barak: We'll deepen and widen operation as much as needed
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=123011171861...

Analysis: The policy of restraint is over
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=123011171827...

Hamas: All police HQs in Gaza destroyed
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=123011171496...

Bottom Line: The Hamas rocket attacks MUST cease.

[sellitman]

39. Israel shouldn't be allowed to defend itself.

They should let Hamas continue to fire bombs at their civilians.

How dare the Israelis protect their population.


What unmitigated Chutzpah!

[ohio2007]

41. one wall = no trouble = life's good

[laststeamtrain]

42. BBC: Eyewitness: Chaos in Gaza

Eyewitness: Chaos in Gaza

The BBC's Rushdi Aboualouf in the Gaza Strip described the chaos as Israeli warplanes fired missiles at Hamas targets, killing at least 155 Palestinians.

Israeli planes are still flying over Gaza and they have just targeted another Hamas compound in the middle of the Gaza Strip, in a place called Khan Younis.

We can see from our office here in Gaza, in the middle of Gaza City, ambulances are still evacuating the injured from buildings and school kids are trying to find secure places.

People who were going to their work were turned back and went home, and most of the residents in Gaza have been ordered by the Ministry of Health to stay indoors.

The mosques in Gaza are calling the people here to go to the hospitals and to donate blood. There is no room in the hospitals as far as we've heard from Hamas sources to treat the people...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801292.stm

[bluesmail]

43. Death toll now 205. n/t

[leftchick]

45. make that 205 Dead including women children and policeman

targets all...

Death toll in Gaza Strip mounts to 205
author Saturday December 27, 2008 19:12author by IMEMC Source Report this post to the editors

Palestinian medical sources reported that the number of Palestinians killed in the Israeli airstrike against the Gaza Strip Saturday afternoon stands at 205, including, policemen, women and children. Over 400 werre reportedly wounded in the airstrike.

http://www.imemc.org/article/58164

they really do want to wipe them all out.

[totodeinhere]

62. Why no mention of the many rockets fired by Hamas at innocent Israeli civilians?

There has been violence on both sides and I fear it will continue.

[subsuelo]

70. I'm against the terrorism both sides commit

But the fact remains - Israel's terrorist rampages are far worse than those of Hamas.

[totodeinhere]

76. Terrorist rampages? Israel was acting in self defense to take out...

rockets that Hamas was firing at Israeli civilians. Israel had warned Hamas on several occasions that this would happen if they didn't stop the rocket attacks. Hamas had ample opportunities to avoid the carnage, so I place the blame for this violence squarely at the doorstep of Hamas.

[leftchick]

78. I agree about the violence

It is the level of violence that Israel is capable of doing that is jus horrifying. Remember Lebanon in 2006? Israel has a great capacity to attack with impunity people that they hate with no repercussions. There are many more people in Israel that detest the governments methods than do. Much like our Neocon run government here.

[JCMach1]

86. Just how many were killed by those rocket attacks....?

As usual both sides are playing games. Hamas will get to play martyr (legitimately or not) and the Israelis will continue their right-wing business as usual oppression.

What's not to like!? Oh yeah, they usually explain it away by calling it collateral damage.

[JerseygirlCT]

90. Too often, that side of things goes unmentioned here

in the rush to decry any and all things Israel does.

As you say, the violence is horrifying - but it is not one-sided.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[totodeinhere]

156. The poster that I was responding to could have also mentioned that along...

with the bombing, but apparently decided not to. In my case, I was trying to add some balance to the discussion by pointing out that violence was also being perpetrated by the other side, and it's Israel's position that their bombing is a defensive measure and would stop as soon as the rockets stop.

[GoesTo11]

64. They really do want to wipe them all out???

What do you think would really happen if Israel did try to "wipe them all out"? Hint. They'd all be wiped out.

I haven't seen a precise breakdown of casualty figures. According to what I have read "most" of the casualties were Hamas (including Hamas policemen). Some civilians were also killed, but a small number for an action of this size. It's one thing to object to the action, but to look at the situation and say they want to wipe them all out is nonsense.

[rockymountaindem]

93. If Israel wanted to "wipe them all out"

they would have all been wiped out decades ago. Goodness knows Israel has the capability to kill way more Palestinians than they do. If the goal was mass civilian casualties, the toll would be well into the thousands.

[laststeamtrain]

47. "the operation is ongoing and will continue for as long as is necessary".

Israeli ari attacks on Gaza continue after dark
27 Dec 2008 15:52:42 GMT
Source: Reuters
GAZA, Dec 27 (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes kept up attacks on targets in Hamas-ruled Gaza on Saturday after darkness fell, striking at a metal foundry and other sites in the south of the coastal strip, Hamas officials and witnesses said.

The Israeli army issued a statement saying "the operation is ongoing and will continue for as long as is necessary". ...http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LR299473.htm

[dipsydoodle]

48. They also have not excluded going in by land.

[leftchick]

51. Egypt slams Israeli 'murder' in Gaza, summons ambassador

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gISj...

5 hours ago

CAIRO (AFP) — Egypt condemned Israel's Saturday air raids on Gaza that killed at least 195 Palestinians as "murder" and opened its Rafah border crossing with the territory to allow the wounded through for treatment.

"We call for an immediate end to Israeli military operations. We cannot allow these attacks to continue. We cannot permit the murder of Palestinians," Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit said on state television.

Egypt -- one of only two Arab states to have signed a peace deal with Israel -- summoned ambassador Shalom Cohen to call for an end to the bombardment by dozens of Israeli aircraft that has left more than 350 wounded, many seriously.

"We summoned the Israeli ambassador and we said we refuse this aggression and we demanded an immediate end to it," foreign ministry spokesman Hossam Zaki told AFP.

President Hosni Mubarak earlier condemned "the Israeli military aggression on the Gaza Strip and blames Israel, as an occupying force, for the victims and the wounded."

[sellitman]

57. F. Egypt.

Didn't see much bitching and moaning here when they closed their portion of the border to Gaza shutting out the Palestinians to food and humanitarian aid.

Where was your outrage then?

[totodeinhere]

63. Egypt and it's fascist government don't have the moral authority to criticize Israel. n/t

[leftchick]

52. No safe places

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801292.stm

It's a very bad situation... There were Israeli aeroplanes everywhere, hitting everywhere. You could see smoke from north to south, from west to east. The people are really in a panic. The main object for the people now is to find a secure place to secure their family.

It's hard to find a secure place in Gaza. Gaza has no shelters, it has no safe places. The Hamas security compounds are in the middle of the city - it's not the kind of place where you see compounds outside the cities.

I have witnessed one of the compounds - which is 20m away from my house - I was standing on the balcony and I have seen the Israeli airplanes hitting the place.

Some of my balcony was damaged and my kid was injured and it's a very, very serious situation here in Gaza, the people can't do anything except stay indoors.

[leftchick]

53. 205 people were killed, about a third of them civilians

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-gaz...



A Palestinian man shouts as he and others try to find their dead relatives among bodies laid out on the ground outside a hospital in Gaza City, Gaza.


A Palestinian official says at least 205 people were killed, about a third of them civilians. Israeli forces bombarded military targets across Hamas-ruled Gaza, retaliating against recent attacks.


By Richard Boudreaux and Rushdi Abu-Alouf
9:33 AM PST, December 27, 2008

Reporting from Gaza City and Jerusalem -- Israeli warplanes and helicopters bombarded military targets across the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip today, retaliating for rocket fire into Israel but also inflicting a heavy loss of civilian life in the densely populated Palestinian enclave.

The midday waves of airstrikes killed at least 205 people, according to a Palestinian Health Ministry official in Gaza, making it the deadliest Israeli assault on Palestinian territory in years. Health Ministry officer Moaiya Hassanain estimated that one-third of the dead were civilian noncombatants and that an additional 350 Palestinians were wounded.

[sellitman]

55. Hamas was warned repeatedly

Stop the rocketfire or else. They shot over 200 rockets toward civilian targets. If they succeeded the Israeli casualties would have been all civilians and even more dead.

This is their own doing.

[leftchick]

56. yeah right

[sellitman]

58. Not for lack of trying.

Why not show this graph to the citizens that have been living under fear of Hamas rockets and see if this helps them return to a normal existance.

[SOS]

60. More from the New York Times:

"There was a shocking quality to Saturday’s attacks, in broad daylight on about 100 sites, as police cadets were graduating, women were shopping at the outdoor market and children were emerging from school.
The center of Gaza City instantly became a scene of chaotic horror, with rubble everywhere, sirens wailing, and women shrieking as dozens of mutilated bodies were laid out on the pavement and in the lobby of Shifa Hospital so that family members could identify them. The vast majority of those killed were Hamas police officers and security men, including two senior commanders, but the dead included several construction workers and at least two children in school uniforms...Anti-Israel demonstrations broke out across the region."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/world/middleeast/28mi...

[bahrbearian]

66. They waited till they found out that they were not going to get the F-22

Then they said "So get-er done",

[underpants]

67. Because the attacks last year on Lebanon were SO successful

[Kurska]

73. This seems to be so far

Israel caught hamas completely by surprise and have utterly devastated their military infrastructure. I've been saying for awhile that anyone looking for a repeat of 2006 is going to be sorely disappointed. Southern lebanon with it's rocky hills and sparse settlements is not gaza city.

[underpants]

74. Good. I'm glad that's settled.

Yes it was 2006 wasn't it?

[Kurska]

77. This is what you were talking about right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_confli...

It's even called the 2006 Lebanon-Israeli war

[underpants]

96. Yes

If I were Hamas I would try to get my money back for those missiles. How do you miss an entire country?

[Kurska]

155. They usally end up hitting flat ground or open spaces

Southern israel is mostly rural, Imagine someone randomly dropping missiles into fly over country. It doesn't help that these rockets s are basically the equilivent of giant bottle rocket and just fly off in the general direction of where they are pointed.

[rollin74]

82. Hamas brought this upon itself

don't fire rockets if you can't deal with the response. What did they expect would happen?

[JerseygirlCT]

91. Exactly what's happening, I suspect

Hamas doesn't give a damn for the Palestinians, either. The Palestinian citizens are simply fodder for their "cause". More "martyrs" only serves them.

And until the Palestinians are willing to toss out the terrorists and look for grown-ups willing to work toward peace, the Palestinian people will likely continue to suffer.

[LWolf]

92. So...

are all the dead and wounded Hamas?

Did the innocent who just got bombed "bring this on themselves?"

Punishing Hamas is not acceptable justification for the collateral damage.

[Pavulon]

99. Dogs are punished

with a newspaper. this was intended to kill people. Just like rockets fired into israel. To destroy human life.