Bush withdraws 1 of 19 pardons he issued Tuesday

[Robbien]

Source: AP

. . .

Bush pardoned 19 people on Tuesday, including Isaac Robert Toussie of Brooklyn, N.Y., who had been convicted of making false statements to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development and of mail fraud. On Wednesday, the White House issued an extraordinary statement saying the president was reversing his decision in Toussie's case.

. . .


The Daily News story on Wednesday, and another in Newsday and on blogs, shed light on Toussie's record. He pleaded guilty for lying to HUD and mail fraud, admitting that he falsified finances of prospective homebuyers seeking HUD mortgages. He was sentenced to five months in prison and five months' house arrest, a $10,000 fine and no restitution, the Daily News reported.

In another case, Toussie pleaded guilty to having a friend send his local county a letter that falsely inflated property values.

The Daily News also located a lawyer representing hundreds of ex-customers who have sued Toussie in federal court, accusing him of luring poor, minority homebuyers into buying overpriced homes with mortgages that had hidden costs.

. . .

Federal Election Commission records show a number of donations to Republicans this year by Robert Toussie and by a Laura Toussie who lists the same address. Between them, they gave $4,600 to Minnesota GOP Sen. Norm Coleman and another $4,600 to Oregon Republican Sen. Gordon Smith, all on Oct. 15. Coleman is locked in a still-undecided race against Democrat Al Franken, and Smith lost in November to Democrat Jeff Merkley.

On Oct. 30, Robert Toussie also gave $2,300 to GOP Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia.

His contribution to the Republican National Committee came as part of a fundraiser in March for GOP presidential candidate John McCain. Out of a total donation of $30,800 by Toussie, $2,300 went to McCain's campaign and $28,500 went to the RNC.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gNbZJ...

---

The guy was convicted for doing what hundreds of other were doing at the time, corrupting the system by by preying on the poor/minorities thus inflating the housing/credit bubble.

And as such will do, the guy thought that handing about forty grand to politicos would get him off the hook.

It worked, for a few hours.

[Wickerman]

1. Figures he tried to buy Norm Coleman

He has 4 Sale tattooed on his forehead.

[cstanleytech]

2. Now thats interesting,

I was reading the thread over here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... where someone mentioned it but they didnt provide a link.
Thanks

[Robbien]

3. The guy ruined hundreds of lives and all the punishment he got was five months jail time

AND the guy still thought he was entitled to purchase a pardon.

Sign of the times in which we are living.
:shakeshead:


and you are welcome.

[meow2u3]

4. If Bush hadn't rescinded the pardon of this scumbag

Congress definitely would have had a slam-dunk impeachment case against him, on the grounds of bribery, before he leaves office on his own 1/20/09. He wanted to keep his Secret Service detail--that's the real reason he retracted the pardon.

[On the Road]

9. Hmmm, That Would Make Sense

Thank you for pointing out that possibility. The Blagojevich investigation must have spooked him.

[Demeter]

40. So Near, and Yet, So Far

But not escaping justice forever.

[pipoman]

41. Funny that..

every presidential pardon issued in the last how many? administrations included contributions to the pardoning presidents party. If the whole bribery angle nonsense were true every former president would have a problem. Do you know of any exceptions to this?

[Donnachaidh]

5. I certainly hope that some intrepid reporter is checking ALL the other pardons

to see just how much money the GOP has received from *any* of them.

[smiley]

6. Bush is such a saint...

[BrklynLiberal]

7. Does that mean Bush has to give the money back?

[Baby Snooks]

15. Of course not

And not to be a "grinch" but did Clinton give the money back? The whole pardon system, even in the states, stinks of corruption and reeks of the money, on and under the table, that feeds the corruption.

The reality is he still pardoned him and actually made it worse by "unpardoning" him. He probably set this up to begin with so he would look "ethical" when he pardons everyone in his admnistration. "Just because" as Bill Clinton would put it. "Just because I can."

He is, as Nancy Reagan called him in 2000, the Village Idiot. Although at this point to be honest he is just one of many in the village.

[BrklynLiberal]

8. Toussie is the one on the right. If you look up oily salesman, this is the picture you see

The guy on the left doesn't exactly look on the up and up either.

[caseymoz]

12. Oh, shit! It's Agent Smith . . .!

[w4rma]

10. Is that legal? Presidents have the ability to pardon, not recend pardons. (nt)

[Usrename]

16. I wouldn't think it's possible to unpardon someone.

Unless the pardon was conditional to begin with ant the conditions were not met.

[unblock]

18. my guess is that the paperwork hadn't been finalized

so he hadn't actually formally pardoned the guy yet.

had he actually formally pardoned the guy and completed all the paperwork and everything, then i agree, revoking a pardon is a power the president doesn't have. it amounts to a new trial where the president is instant judge and jury.

[Jim Lane]

19. That raises a VERY interesting question re Cheney et al.

Here's the commentary from the December 25 edition of http://www.electoral-vote.com (run by a Democrat):

On Dec. 23 President Bush pardoned Isaac Toussie, who had defrauded low-income home buyers, then on Dec. 24 he revoked the pardon. It is a bit early to tell how this will play out, but suppose Toussie goes to federal court to claimed "once a pardonee, always a pardonee" and loses. In other words, supposes the courts rule that if President's have to power to pardon, they also have the power to revoke a pardon. That could have implications if President Bush pardons members of his administration on his last day in office and then incoming President Barack Obama revokes the pardons. This is definitely uncharted territory.

Mr. Toussie could conceivably end up playing an unanticipated role in American constitutional history.

[curiousdemo]

11. Can this clown do anything right!!!

A walking buffoon....He's so jinkie.

[caseymoz]

13. Leave it to Bush to actually mess up one of his real unlimited Constitutional powers!

And Republicans gave him so many more dangerous powers! This guy could unbrush his teeth.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

14. I can't control my laughing

...Bush got busted bigtime, so bad that he's desperately trying to pretend nothing happened by undoing the pardon. But the damage has been done, at least from his perspective.

[HopeHoops]

17. Weird - Bush actually did the ethical thing for once. Go figure.

[DogPoundPup]

20. Sorry Humiliated Bush revokes pardon

Source: The Independent UK

One of George Bush's final acts as President fell apart in less than 24 hours, when he took the unprecedented step of revoking a pardon granted to a New York property developer who defrauded hundreds of low-income homeowners.

Isaac Robert Toussie, who is at the centre of a long-running real-estate fraud case, was one of 19 people Mr Bush pardoned on Tuesday, striking a sentence for mail fraud and lying to a government department from the record. But on Christmas Eve, the President was forced to reverse the decision, as newspapers revealed that his father had recently donated almost $30,000 to the Republican Party.

Dana Perino, a White House press secretary, told a news conference that the decision to revoke the pardon, which is unheard of in modern history, was "based on information that has subsequently come to light".

She admitted that the pardon had not met Justice Department guidelines, and said neither the White House counsel's office nor the President had been aware of a political contribution by Mr Toussie's father that: "might create an appearance of impropriety".

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sorry-...

[oldnslo]

21. Allow me to correct your statement.....

Georgie is neither sorry for a goddamned thing, nor is he able to be humiliated by anything. His personality disorders protect him from all human feelings.

[latebloomer]

22. He is,however

A sorry excuse for a human being
A sorry sack of shit
etc.

[KeepItReal]

23. Yeah I don't hear any contrition coming from Bush & Co.

More like "so we messed up...so what?"

[BrklynLiberal]

30. Exactly my first thought when I saw the subject line..

[proud progressive]

24. BREAKING NEWS: 'Monkey Brains' strikes again (sorry, all monkeys).

[Atman]

25. K&R this one, people!

Further underscores to the lurking freepers just how corrupt they are to the very core. Of course, they'll simply respond with some drivel about Obama being a Muslim with contacts to Blagojevich and Chigaco mobs and Hawaiian luau girls and...and...and he plays basketball and eats fried chicken. But it's still okay to rub their noses in the feces of their making.

.

[Chulanowa]

36. I thought you said Chicago Cubs

And here I was all set to really be upset!

[47of74]

26. Something stinks to high heaven...

...of cheap booze and hog manure here.

[Fiendish Thingy]

27. Does the Constitution allow the President to revoke pardons?

If so, then couldn't Obama revoke Bush's pardons once he's sworn in? I don't believe the Constitution says anything about this, one way or another...

[stlsaxman]

28. Rec #5- off to the greatest page! n/t

[sofa king]

29. Whaaaa? A President can reverse a pardon?

Um, just sorta wondering here... can a President reverse a different President's pardon?

[starroute]

32. No such luck

I saw some discussion of this earlier today -- maybe at Talking Points Memo. The precedents are a bit fuzzy, but the crucial point seems to be that the pardon had been announced but not yet actually issued. Once the pardonee gets the formal documents, it's a done deal.

[sofa king]

34. I didn't think so.

I have a feeling there are many thousand pardons to come in the next few weeks, too.

[depakid]

37. Looks like once it's signed- the matter is res judicata

It doesn't have to be signed delivered- but there's really not much in the way of controlling precedent.

[dysfunctional press]

43. actually, there is precedent-

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/25/more-on-pard... /

Ulysses S. Grant's first clemency decision, on his third day in office, was to revoke two pardons granted by Andrew Johnson. Both men challenged Grant's power to do so, and lost their case in federal court.

(snip)

Grant also revoked the pardon of James F. Martin, but the New York Times, reported that the official order from the State Department reached the U.S. Marshal in Massachusetts "too late." That is to say, Martin had accepted his pardon and had exited the premises. No effort was made to put him back.

Finally Grant revoked the pardon of Richard C. Enright, who was sentenced to 18 months in prison and fined $2,500 for conspiracy to defraud the government. Johnson granted a full pardon 12 months into the sentence but, before the pardon could reach Enright's hands, Grant revoked it. Enright had to cool his heels another 8 months.

[depakid]

46. The reasoning in that case looks like it may have been superceded

by Biddle v. Perovich.

At least, I found this argumment in the Congressional Record to be persuasuve:

...once the pardon warrant is signed, that is the public act that accomplishes the clemency action. I believe that Supreme Court case law has made it pretty clear that a pardon is a public act, and so all that business about the deeds and delivery, I think, has pretty much has been overtaken by the Biddle case; that it is a public act and once a warrant is signed--I mean, know from my own experience that we did not deliver pardon warrants, individual pardon warrants, to the recipients sometimes for weeks.

I am embarrassed to say, because we just did not--I am sure, frankly, if you look, I suspect that a number of the 176 have not gotten theirs yet, either, and that is a warrant that is signed by Roger Adams, who is the current Pardon Attorney. Roger Adams does not have any authority to do anything other than simply deliver what the President did, and this is a document that somebody can frame and hang on their kitchen wall or something. But it is nothing more than a symbol, a sign of what the President did in signing a document with 140 names on it.

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju71180...

[dysfunctional press]

47. plus- it's not like toussie is depending on the pardon to get out of jail...

at this point, it's just a paper matter-
although, since it's something i'm not familiar with...i'm assuming that a presidential pardon on the criminal side would not protect him from civil proceedings and lawsuits- but i'm not sure how it might impact those court cases, if at all.

[depakid]

48. "would not protect him from civil proceedings and lawsuits"

Sitting back and thinking about it- it's a very interesting distinction.

Pardon power extends to offenses committed against the state, whereas torts or contract rights would inure to (and among) indivuals or private entities.

If the executive- or the legislative branch were to provide for retroactive immunity of some vested right- or right of action, then if the state were to "take" those rights from individuals who've been harmed or suffered damages- presumably, just compensation would be due.

That's consistent with a favored bit of reasoning in the expansive line of takings cases over the past 20+ years or so.

So- assuming Congress can grant the telecoms retroactive immunity for tortious spying, invasions of privacy or for breach of contract rights- and the cases that had been filed or are at issue have to be dismissed- an argument might still be made that plaintiffs should be allowed to prove up damages, and submit the bill to their senators and representatives!

[grahamhgreen]

39. If they can reverse habeus corps, we can reverse a pardon...

[dysfunctional press]

44. yes they can, and yes it has been done.

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/25/more-on-pard... /

Ulysses S. Grant's first clemency decision, on his third day in office, was to revoke two pardons granted by Andrew Johnson. Both men challenged Grant's power to do so, and lost their case in federal court.

[sofa king]

49. Fascinating!

I don't think anything will come of it, but it's interesting to see that such a thing has been done.

[JaneQPublic]

31. Too bad he didn't revoke the Iraq War the same way...

...once it was likewise determined to be based on false information.

[Psephos]

33. Now if we could only get Bill to reverse Marc Rich's pardon n/t

[Baby Snooks]

35. Why?

He had settled the matter with the Justice Department which the Justice Department admitted - it was Rudy Guiliani who insisted the criminal matter be pursued. Fuck Guiliani. Had Marc Rich returned, the Justice Department would have formally refused to prosecute. But Guiliani would have had the US Attorney in Manhattan arrest Marc Rich and held without bond anyway. That is how much power Guiliani had until it came out that Guiliani was tied to the Mafia. Giuliani rose to power conducting political vendettas against high profile victims like the Helmsleys and wasn't above lying to grand juries to get indictments. The Helmsleys were the first victims. Marc Rich was the last. Bill Clinton should have pardoned Leona Helmsley as well. Fuck Guiliani. And fuck you. You want to be a Guiliani apologist go to a Republican forum.

[Psephos]

45. lol poor Mr. Rich

he must be thankful that people like you are dedicated to protecting victims of injustice...especially those who, like Mr. Rich, so "richly" exemplify everything progressives stand for

and thankful that his wife knew all she had to do was cough up a half-million "donation" to get the ball rolling...some say she "donated" some other goods as well

anyway, thanks for the laugh of the day >8-D

[grahamhgreen]

38. 30 grand? guy didn't pay enough....

[lonestarnot]

42. Asshat can't wipe his own ass correctly.