Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

[inanna]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON (AP) -- It's something any bank would demand to know before handing out a loan: Where's the money going? But after receiving billions in aid from U.S. taxpayers, the nation's largest banks say they can't track exactly how they're spending the money or they simply refuse to discuss it.

"We've lent some of it. We've not lent some of it. We've not given any accounting of, 'Here's how we're doing it,'" said Thomas Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, which received $25 billion in emergency bailout money. "We have not disclosed that to the public. We're declining to."

The Associated Press contacted 21 banks that received at least $1 billion in government money and asked four questions: How much has been spent? What was it spent on? How much is being held in savings, and what's the plan for the rest?

None of the banks provided specific answers.


Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MELTDOWN_SECRETS...

[ixion]

1. The next time I go to the bank for a loan, I'll simply "decline" to tell them what it's for

I'm sure they won't mind.

[unblock]

7. actually usually they don't care.

they're far more interested in your ability to repay.

other than things like mortgages and car loans that have specific collateral attached, loan proceeds are yours to do with what you wish.

you can use a personal loan or a credit card or a cash advance for whatever you want.

in fact, if you already own your house free and clear (lucky you!) you can take out a mortgage on it and use the cash for whatever you want. you just have to give the bank a lien on your house.

[ixion]

13. did we get a lien on the bank for our loan?

It would seem appropriate.

Yeah, I understand that unsecured loans don't require a reason (although usually it comes up at some point). However, you pay a much higher interest rate for such a loan. Are we charging unsecured rates? I seriously doubt it.

[unblock]

25. sometimes yes and sometimes no. and THAT's the real problem with this bailout

sometimes they're just taking essentially unsecured risk, sometimes they're getting equity in exchange, sometimes they don't even bother rescuing a failing institution, etc.

they'd get SO much more bang for the buck if they were just a bit more consistent! the whole point is to restore mutual trust and consistency is IMPERATIVE for that. the fed/treaasury has left banks still scratching their heads as to which failing institution will get rescued and which will be left to fail, so they don't have much more confidence than without any bailout plan.

the fed/treasury needed to throw LOTS of money at the problem, and in the end it will work out better than doing nothing (think hoover) but they certainly could have giving it just a LITTLE more thought....

[tclambert]

15. For a business loan, they will often make you write up a detailed business plan.

And if you're an auto company, you have to carpool to Washington (no corporate jets) and endure a grilling from hostile Southern Senators who hate Yankees and anything with the word "Union" in it. And then you have to agree to Congressional oversight of your spending because Congress is the very model of fiscal responsibility.

[unblock]

27. depends on how established the company is

and in any event they don't always prevent you from using it for a different purpose. if i go to the bank and say i want to use it to buy a widget-maker and shortly after getting the loan congress bans the manufacture of widgets, then in all likelihood i'm free to pursue some other money-making alternative.

[mascarax]

20. Another letter to Congresspeople

is now in order.

Can you imagine answering the bank's questions the same way? And them just giving you money?!

"Oh, I couldn't possibly answer that...I manage my capital in its aggregate."
"I choose not to disclose that."
"We're declining to disclose that...we'll spend some, we'll save some...we're not going to give an accounting of 'here's what we're doing'...you know how it is."

And King Henry wants more, more, more. And he's going to twist the auto deal as a big reason why.

[liberal N proud]

2. I still believe that history will prove the bailout to be the largest heist ever

[polichick]

5. That's exactly what it was - and voters predicted it. Congress was part of this heist.

[ixion]

14. yep, that's what it was, IMO

a heist, pure and simple.

[iamahaingttta]

18. It's a heist and we shouldn't pay for it.

We should all simply refuse to pay for this ripoff by not paying federal taxes.

I'll go first...

[Pachamama]

50. Actually, this was the final act in the largest heist in history: The largest heist has actually

been the whole last 8 years and this was the final act. They have robbed the US Treasury and the resources of this Nation. Whether it be the money made off of illegal war, the tax cuts for the Rich and Corporations, all the money that was moved off shore, the special deals cut without bids to friends and contributors, the give away and special trade benefits to various Nations, the moving of Jobs overseas, the destruction of our manufacturing sector, the Billions of $$$'s "missing" in Iraq (oops?), the increasing of the heroin trade through the opium production in Afghanistan, the Real Estate Loan "boom" and no-money down loans and interest-only loans and inflated values of homes by the Bank industry, and now finally the destruction of the 401K's and retirement pensions and funds, with the final cherry on top the Billions to the Banking and Investment and Insurance companies (along with unknown Billions to be made from the Credit Default Swaps).

And what are Americans left with when this criminal cabal of the last 8 years and its complicit Republicans and Democrats in Congress and their Corporate Masters are done with us? Nothing but debt, scavenged resources, destroyed manufacturing and trade, a crumbling infrastructure across our nation, huge trade deficits and budget deficits and a depressed economy and destroyed greenback. We are in serious deep sh*t folks and the vast majority of the American people (and especially those who supported these criminals) have yet to feel the impact, to feel the suffering and to acknowledge just how bad it has been.

The greatest and largest heist ever in the history of the world. And the price and suffering for the consequences of this heist are yet be felt. Will the robbers and criminals ever be punished, the riches stolen ever returned? Probably not. Not based on how things have gone and based on history.

[Revolution aka Ohio]

3. This whole thing is disgusting.....

....the American people...because of their unwillingness to take more drastic measures...fully and completely deserve to be swindled into the ground.....

Obama now coming in.....seems to be just more of the same.....granted I'll give him 6 months....but I won't hold my breath.

[midnight]

4. Unbelievable is what comes to my mind.

[SpiralHawk]

6. Republicons are totally into OCCULTISM

Everything the sneaky, corrupt, perverse republicons do is secret.

Why do republicons HATE America and its tradition of democracy ?

Why are republicons so hell-bent on occultism, fascism, and FAIL? What is wrong with them?

America wants to know?

[Le Taz Hot]

21. Republican?

It was the hard-line Republicans and the few left-wing Democrats left that OPPOSED the bail out, remember? President Change, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton, Schumer were FOR the bailout and they very pointedly told us the oversight will come later. Right. It's about time you guys started holding your OWN accountable. Americans want to know where the HELL the DEMOCRATS are in all this? They were complicit.

[boomerbust]

22. GW AWOL BUSH

REPUBLICAN

[Le Taz Hot]

32. I'm trusting your follow-up post

will encompass skills learned in your next lesson which, hopefully, will include small-case letters, punctuation and coherent sentences.

[boomerbust]

33. Fuck you!

How is that for proper puncuation?

[Le Taz Hot]

37. Excellent!

A-Plus.

Now, let's work on that vocabulary expansion, shall we?

[SpiralHawk]

24. This was the demented brainchild of the republicons

I agree the Dems were just a bunch of republisymps with the whole deal, but please refrain from calling the dems 'my guys,' or I get the feeling that the republicons are 'your guys.'

I am -- and always have been -- as independent as a hog on ice. And I still blame the republicons and their corrupt republiconomics for the HUGE STINKING ECONOMIC MESS, as well as a thousand other slings and arrows against America.

[Le Taz Hot]

28. I am neither Democrat nor Republican.

Just for the record, I believe political parties are the bane of Democracy but that's another post. When I say "you guys" I'm referring to the party faithful. If you don't hold your elected officials accountable how are you better than your opponents?

[tanyev]

8. Hey, that's just like what happened to all the money we poured into Iraq.

What a "coincidence".

[live love laugh]

9. I don't see why this is a shock--it was known that the distribution would be secret beforehand. nt

[boomerbust]

10. TINFOIL ALERT!!!!!!

Bush and Cheney will have a billion or two of bailout money waiting for them.

[acmavm]

11. Sheesh, sounds like somebody needs a spanking. A big one.

They need to learn how to play nice and not cheat.

We wouldn't let our kids pull this shit. We couldn't pull this shit.

Let's see what Obama does. Or doesn't (which I believe is much more likely).

[tclambert]

12. "What did we do with the money? Why, we invested it

with Bernie Madoff."

[Odin2005]

16. Thieving Bastards!!!

[bdamomma]

17. well it's not in our pockets!!

[gratuitous]

19. Ocean's 11, 12, 13, The Sting, and Kelly's Heroes

Those pikers had nothing on American bankers when it comes to appropriating other people's money.

[Fumesucker]

29. You forgot The Italian Job and The Great Train Robbery :) n/t

[OwnedByFerrets]

23. Where is the outrage in Congress??

[Fumesucker]

30. I think Kookinich is outraged...

And maybe a couple of others on "teh extreme left".

[lonestarnot]

40. You do not sound like a very nice person today.

[Fumesucker]

41. I'm pissed about this..

And my use of Kookinich was sardonic humor aimed at those who supported the bailout/giveaway because that's how they think of Kucinich.

[lonestarnot]

43. Ok, now I understand!

[Fumesucker]

45. Time after time, issue after issue, Kucinich and "the far left" have been proven correct

While the right and the pragmatic centrists have been proven catastrophically wrong.

And yet Kucinich is still thought of as being Kooky, even by a lot of Dems.

back atcha'

[OwnedByFerrets]

52. I knew whatcha meant and I agree 100%.

[lonestarnot]

58. Marginialization of the spot on is part of their game. But when you are correct,

marginalization doesn't work well.

[Strathos]

26. Maybe we should decline to pay our taxes until we know where they are going

The IRS can't put us all in jail. Can they?

[corpseratemedia]

31. that bailout money, our taxes, which was for our infrastructure

our health-care,etc.

was STOLEN from us. If you're a petty thief, you get arrested and get jail time.
If you're a banker and steal billions for your own wallet, you get to steal more and never be held accountable for being a criminal.

Only a few in Congress represent us. The rest fenced/laundered our money, therefore they should be held accountable.

[MadrasT]

34. But "Thank God it passed"...

"The last act of those in power in a collapsing empire is to loot the treasury. "

~ Often quoted, source unknown.

[TheWatcher]

35. And what's even more amazing is that the "Thank God It Passed" Shills on this board STILL remain

blind apologists for it.

And they just can't understand why we don't want to feel good and accept being robbed as happily and contented as they have.

[wellst0nev0ter]

38. Yeah, The Silence Sure Is Deafening

Hope those apologists keep it that way. The last thing I need this morning is another one of their pathetic interludes for "doing the responsible thing" or "trust our Congressional leaders."

[MisterP]

56. it seems that being truckling is now a virtue

praise Gerald Ford's pardoning of a serial criminal--who, as those of us not living off Regnery fantasies have seen, had corrupted politics for over three decades? you're not a flatterer, but a noble hero whose courage will resound through the ages while the hissing, ugly Greek chorus of negativity and grave-trampling is consigned to the dustbin of history!
defend arch-conservative flunkies who try to purge the Party of anti-war candidates, or defend neoliberals? you're not a shill for those shills of big business, you're the only barricade to Maoists and Naderites slitting our throats in a barbarian orgy!
feh

[Romulox]

59. You kidding? The "Thank God it Passed!" chorus dares not even post on these threads...

Where are they?

[NoodleyAppendage]

36. Climax of "Fight Club" vision swims in my head.

Maybe its time for a populist revolution and a deconstruction of corporate power...by any means necessary.

J

[tomm2thumbs]

39. i wonder how many investigations are going on right now

behind the scenes that we don't know about yet

[chomper68]

42. Zero

[StudsT]

44. i can NOT wait for the new sheriff and his posse to get in town - N/T

StudsT

[Cassius23]

46. Well, when he gets into town, hopefully he'll have a petition waiting....

After reading this I think that we, as Americans, deserve and need to know the truth, no matter how bad it is. The only thing this secrecy is doing is making people suspect wrongdoing or that things are so bad that it will make the Great Depression look like a mild speed bump.

So I'm going to be seeing how many signatures I can get to send to Obama and Congress demanding that they find out what is being done with our money.

[DeepModem Mom]

47. K&R

[Festivito]

48. Bought National City that did not need to be bought, nor wanted.

My bet is that the money is in places where they can buy stuff or it remains in the Fed where in either case it stays out of the money supply in order to CAUSE deflation so they can buy more properties before they end their time in office.

It's not working well enough, so they need to drop another 350 billion out of the money supply.

[sarcasmo]

54. It's definitely not being lent out like it was supposed to be.

[Deny and Shred]

49. Bush Admin. added a phrase so banks could avoid restrictions

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6165162.html

[Pachamama]

51. The largest heist in history:

Actually, the "Trillion $$$ Bailout" was the final act in the largest heist in history.

The largest heist has actuallybeen the whole last 8 years and this was the final act. They have robbed the US Treasury and the resources of this Nation. Whether it be the money made off of illegal war, the tax cuts for the Rich and Corporations, all the money that was moved off shore, the special deals cut without bids to friends and contributors, the give away and special trade benefits to various Nations, the moving of Jobs overseas, the destruction of our manufacturing sector, the Billions of $$$'s "missing" in Iraq (oops?), the increasing of the heroin trade through the opium production in Afghanistan, the Real Estate Loan "boom" and no-money down loans and interest-only loans and inflated values of homes by the Bank industry, and now finally the destruction of the 401K's and retirement pensions and funds, with the final cherry on top the Billions to the Banking and Investment and Insurance companies (along with unknown Billions to be made from the Credit Default Swaps).

And what are Americans left with when this criminal cabal of the last 8 years and its complicit Republicans and Democrats in Congress and their Corporate Masters are done with us? Nothing but debt, scavenged resources, destroyed manufacturing and trade, a crumbling infrastructure across our nation, huge trade deficits and budget deficits and a depressed economy and destroyed greenback. We are in serious deep sh*t folks and the vast majority of the American people (and especially those who supported these criminals) have yet to feel the impact, to feel the suffering and to acknowledge just how bad it has been.

The greatest and largest heist ever in the history of the world. And the price and suffering for the consequences of this heist are yet be felt. Will the robbers and criminals ever be punished, the riches stolen ever returned? Probably not. Not based on how things have gone and based on history.

[sarcasmo]

53. Crooks!

[SOS]

55. A private business, receiving $25 billion in tax money,

is "declining" to disclose how that money is being used?

Congress needs to act and order these crooks to explain how our money is being used.
If they "decline", cut off the money, purchase every single outstanding share with tax money, take it over and fire them all.

[Zhade]

57. "Thank God It Passed!"

The rallying cry of the arrogantly misinformed.

[Romulox]

60. It's against the rules for me to call out the 4 or 5 DU Bailout Shills

but their cowardice in avoiding these threads is quite telling.

[toopers]

61. Is anyone really surprised by our governments actions?

Remember when there was a move to build a database to keep track of all the governments spending and our leaders killed it! Hiding our tax dollars is nothing new.