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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:55 PM
Original message
Military Jet Crash in San Diego Kills 2 on Ground
Source: ABC News

A military fighter jet preparing to land at a Marine base crashed in a densely populated San Diego neighborhood Monday, killing two people on the ground and destroying three houses.

The pilot of the F/A-18D Hornet jet ejected safely, according to a statement from Marine Corps Air Station Miramar.

Mayor Jerry Sanders said two people on the ground were killed. Fire officials said the deaths were at a home where two children, a mother and a grandmother were believed to be inside. Officials did not immediately know who died.

Three homes were destroyed, Fire Department spokesman Maurice Luque said. Firefighters were hosing down a pile of rubble 3 1/2 hours after the crash with smoke still rising from it.



Video available at the link.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=6418962
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. More photos






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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Terrible. I wonder if the pilot could have managed to stay in the plane long enough
to get it to crash into the ocean.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. He was on his way from the USS Abraham Lincoln to Miramar
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 06:27 PM by slackmaster
From what I have heard he started having trouble about when he reached the coast. At that point he probably lacked the maneuverability to turn around. He was headed pretty much straight for the runway at Miramar, and probably was trying to ditch in an unpopulated area just east of I-805 when he bailed.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I don't know the area well...
...but from what I do know, that sounds about right.
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margotb822 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I have to believe that it was an absolutely dire situation
He was literally seconds from Miramar and definitely knew it was a populated area, so I'm sure he didn't make the decision lightly. I can't wait to hear what the technical cause was.

I'm in the Navy and work in San Diego, and I haven't heard anything more.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thanks for the reply
My brother is a Naval officer too.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thanks for the info...
...I am so sad over what happened.
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. There are canyon just a block over, and about four blocks down from where he hit
San Diego topography is littered with house-covered mesas and steep fingerling canyons filled with brush. If he could have kept it gliding or airborne another second, he would have dropped the plane into a canyon and missed the houses - that's what he was probably hoping for. Four/five more seconds, and he would have hit the 805 freeway or might have managed cross it and hit the freeway easement next to the base.

But, like the 1978 PSA crash that leveled a city block just a quarter mile from where I now live in North Park, the laws of physics were against him and that poor family in their house. :cry:

Haele
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I live about a half mile from the PSA 182 crash site
I was a student at UCSD at the time.

That one resulted in a re-routing of incoming flights to over I-94 rather than over my present neighborhood.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I read some of the articles and what they said was...
...that the plane was "spirling" towards the ground. So, I doubt if he could have gotten it out to sea.

Really sad to see this happen ~~ especially right before Christmas.

:cry:
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. If he could have, he would have, I think.
I've never known a pilot who wasn't very aware of the fact that he was strapped to a 10-ton bomb that would kill anything he crashed into. Very sad story.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Wasn't this precisely the argument against closing El Toro? NT
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. from what I understand of military pilots
they really do everything they can
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. In other words, a plane designed to kill people kills people.
No offense to the innocent people in this accident, but the sole purpose of all warplanes is to either kill people or assist in killing people. The plane was kind of doing it's job, just not on purpose.

I guess I'm saying this because I find it rather sad that when the same plane kills two people in a foreign country, it's not even reported.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. I was there; the smell of toxins burning was terrible.
This is where San Diego wants to build a new airport to replace Lindberg field, but today's tragedy goes to show why airports should not be in the heart of dense urban areas.

CNN now reports 3 deaths, believed to be a grandmother and her grandchildren.

I covered the story today for a local publication. Military bases and airports ought to be in more isolated areas; this is hardly the first crash near Miramar but in the past, these areas were open fields.
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Sub Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. But the airport is already in a dense urban area.
Pt. Loma and OB are at one end, downtown/bankers hill are on the other.

I think if a commercial jet crashed coming in to Lindberg, the devastation would be much, much worse than if it crashed into a residential neighborhood near Miramar.

:cheers:
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. otay would've made more sense, though it's getting built up too.
Of course with Lindberg, a plane in trouble could crash land in the ocean, perhaps.
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bdab1973 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Here's an idea...
Instead of developers buying up land all around a military airfield and then residents complaining about noise and safety issues and demanding the airfield be closed/moved, how about making the areas around these airfields commercial use only?

I fly for the military, and it honestly upsets me to hear the number of people who complain about this after buying a house nearby. When I was in San Antonio, there were people that would complain and post diatribes about the "noise pollution" from nearby Kelly AFB, saying the government had no right to base aircraft near their home. Unfortunately, Kelly AFB has been there since the first World War. Poor situational awareness when buying a home shouldn't be rewarded. In Abilene, Texas, I saw a small group protesting the noise of the bombers there, despite the fact that the base, when built, was well outside the city. Today, the residential areas abutt the airfield in some areas. I don't understand how people can buy a home and NOT hear the afterburners of the departing B-1 bombers there...they launch all the time, so it's not a big secret or a big surprise. Yet those houses sell like hotcakes, and then people complain about the noise.

Same goes for Miramar...I've already viewed a few internet blogs complaining about the base, and that the military shouldn't put a base like that so close to homes...great argument, except that the base was built in the 1940s, and operated continuously since then. Judging from the photos, the homes affected by this latest accident weren't built prior to the 1940s.

People need to realize that the military isn't building any new bases. Nearly every base the military operates has been around since at least the 1950s. The "newest" base I have been assigned to was built in the 1950s (Dyess AFB), and truth be told, it was actually built on the remains of a former World War II airfield (Tye Army Airfield), so at least in the previous 10 years there had been a military presence there. All the other bases I've been on were built up in the 1950s or earlier. It makes no sense to have the military spend tons of money building facilities only to have residential areas crop up around it and then people demanding they go elsewhere. There are better, smarter ways to develop land.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Luke AFB in Glendale, AZ -- supporters are buying up land to keep it OUT
of developers' hands.

some cities around Luke have zoning restrictions to keep developers out of flight path. No homes = no complaints about noise.

Or at least that's what they were doing a few years ago.



TG
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. That's intelligent planning, an oxymoron here in SD where developers own elected officials.
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Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
17. I was stationed at Miramar in the 70's when it was still a Navy
base. I was just looking at a map and saw to my surprise the pilot appeared to be approaching from the west. I was in a fighter squadron and worked at Hangar One right there by the flight line and I'll be honest...out of hundreds and hundreds of landings I can't remember even one time seeing an approach from the west. They always circled and landed from the east over what was (at least then-dunno about now. Lots can change in 30 years) a lot of empty ground. They took off over University City. I wonder if this was some kind of noise abatement change, because fighters in full afterburner at takeoff are a whole lot louder than when landing.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
19. As an aside ...
MCAB Miramar has an EXCELLENT Golf Course. Nice and flat - great way to lower your handicap if you're just getting into the game.

On topic: Why not keep the Golf Course but relocate the Base? :shrug: ;)
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Wow...
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 08:08 AM by hlthe2b
A little off-topic, indeed....
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