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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:32 AM
Original message
Pakistan’s Spies Aided Group Tied to Mumbai Siege
Source: New York Times

WASHINGTON — Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistan-based militant group suspected of conducting the Mumbai attacks, has quietly gained strength in recent years with the help of Pakistan’s main spy service, assistance that has allowed the group to train and raise money while other militants have been under siege, American intelligence and counterterrorism officials say.

American officials say there is no hard evidence to link the spy service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, to the Mumbai attacks. But the ISI has shared intelligence with Lashkar and provided protection for it, the officials said, and investigators are focusing on one Lashkar leader they believe is a main liaison with the spy service and a mastermind of the attacks.

As a result of the assault on Mumbai, India’s financial hub, American counterterrorism and military officials say they are reassessing their view of Lashkar and believe it to be more capable and a greater threat than they had previously recognized.

“People are having to go back and relook at all the connections,” said one American counterterrorism official, who was among several officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was still progressing.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/08/world/asia/08terror.h...
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Veritas_et_Aequitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's probably all the evidence India will need to declare war.
I hope I'm wrong.
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. This is a good time to do that actually.
Pakistani economy is in the toilet and they cannot afford any war. This would be a good time to disarm the terrorists and let the peace-loving, decent and moderate Pakistanis take control from the ISI-military axis by annihilating the latter.
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Veritas_et_Aequitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. You're right, but it's all a matter of execution.
If India goes after terrorist groups with a series of precision strikes, it probably wouldn't make things much worse and could lead to the reforms you're speaking of. What I'm afraid of is India outright invades Pakistan. Whenever nuclear powers engage in open conflict, I get a little more nervous.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. But it has been reported that this group was banned and
that their funding from ISI was terminated the last time they attacked -- I think it was an embassy and maybe in Kabul. So, which is it? Is NYTs saying, ISI used to support them and now they are gaining in strength despite being cut off? Or, not?
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It comes as no surprise to anyone from India.
Pakistan is a terrorist country and terrorism is its official, albeit undeclared policy.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm talking about the facts of the case, not your opinion of Pakistan. n/t
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. "Facts" as in opinions told by some pundit/reporter you like.
Correct?

Here we go again hahahaha.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. No, facts. n/t
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. So you are privy to internal deliberations and decisions at ISI
wherein you are able to state as "fact" that the ISI stopped supporting Lashkar-e-Tayyaba? :rofl:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. This is a news forum. I'm looking for news. You apparently have none.
But, thanks anyway.
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. No
This is a forum for commenting on the news and give one's opinion, feedback and enhancements with additional data.

Neither of us is making news.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. one picture is worth a thousand news stories
If you understand what your looking at



hello Ahkmed,
can you hear me now ?

867-5309
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Making news? I'm sorry I don't follow you.
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varun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. LeT is operating under various other names
Pakistan banned LeT under US pressure after 9/11

But it kept functioning. It just changed names.

Its the hydra headed monster - cut one off - many others appear.
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Pakistan just bans the name. Then suggests a new name
and a new address so it is business as usual.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. The cut in funding and the distancing was very recent, though.
It was this year, iirc. This report doesn't mention it at all. Hmmm.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. I'd heard the same thing...
I'd heard the same thing (Lehrer News Hour late last week), which leads me to believe one of two things are happening...

1. ISI is working off its own accord and on its own agenda. That being the case, I would imagine that whatever its agenda and methods, it must have some pretty serious support within the Pakistani government (shadow) and community (popular).

or 2. Pakistan has re-allowed the ISI back into the governmental fold (albeit without much fanfare or advertising), and thus either directed the action or turned a blind eye to.

Regardless of which one turns out to be the case (or in the case of my own prognostications, it will be something entirely different), the unreleased tensions between the two countries have me worried more than any other current geo-political mess...
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jaksavage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. Tin foil hat time

ISI and CIA work very closely together.
They have for decades.
ISI chief was revealed to have sent M Atta $100,000 just before 9/11.
This general, head of ISI, was meeting with intellegence officials in USA on 9/11.
Who bebefits most from Mumbai attacks...neocons.
Who bebefited from 9/11? neocons, war machine, al queda, or all of the above?
GWB was a CIA agent for 20 years
His father virtually started the agency.
His father also traded with Hitler and planned to overthrow H Truman.
GWB was an agent when he ran for congress!!! is that legal?
The first time he ran on the Eugenics ticket.Racist.
Pakistan, Turkey and Isreal are the main recipients of US aid.
They are all out of control.
The Golden Mosque demo was also a US action.
How many other CIA agents do we have in our govt? or other govts?

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
truth is stranger than fiction

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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. truthers are stranger then fiction
"ISI chief was revealed to have sent M Atta $100,000 just before 9/11."

and if shit hits the fan in Cairo,

it'll be the muslim brotherhood/CIA link revealed ?

lol
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. Here's the same story from a different outlet:
Pakistan Raids Terror Camps Believed Tied to Mumbai Attacks
By Amanda Ruggeri
Posted December 8, 2008

The U.S. investigation into the Mumbai terrorist attacks has reportedly found links between Pakistan's main intelligence agency and the attacks' perpetrators, news that came even as Pakistan was raiding a militant camp, where it seized men suspected in the assault.

Although U.S. officials haven't found hard evidence directly linking Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence to Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistan-based group thought to be responsible for the attacks, U.S. intelligence suggests that the ISI has aided Lashkar in the past. In particular, officials say, the ISI provided it with intelligence and protection.

Officials say there isn't any evidence of a direct link between the Mumbai rampage and the ISI. As one U.S. counterterrorism official warned in an interview with the New York Times, "It's one thing to say the ISI is tied to Lashkar and quite another to say the ISI was behind the Mumbai attacks."

With or without the ISI's knowledge, however, some of the training for the operation seemed to have come from Lashkar-run camps on Pakistani territory—camps that Pakistan cracked down on in its first known response to India's demands that Pakistan punish the attacks' perpetrators.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/12/08/pa...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
16. This article has some details on the identities of the gunman and on
the raid in Kashmir:

Official silence as Pakistan nabs Mumbai plot suspect
One of the suspected planners of last month's attack by gunmen in Mumbai was arrested by Pakistani security forces in a raid on a militant camp near Muzaffarabad, sources in the capital of Pakistani Kashmir said on Monday.

The Pakistani government has so far been silent over Sunday's raid at the camp used by Lashkar-e-Taiba fighters in the hills outside Muzaffarabad, but a spokesman for the jihadi group confirmed it had been targeted.

"Pakistani forces have attacked our camps in Muzaraffabad under pressure from the U.S. and India. We repeat that Laskhar-e-Taiba has nothing to do with the Mumbai attacks, Abdullah Ghaznavi, a spokesman for Lashkar, told Reuters in a satellite telephonecall.

India and the United States have pressed Pakistan to act against militants suspected of being behind the attacks, which killed at least 171 people, or risk an escalation in tensions between the nuclear-armed neighbors.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asia/india/2008/12/09/18675...

While Pakistan is not willing to surrender these people to India, they have offered to do a joint investigation and share information. There seems to have been a meeting last night. Looking for that report.

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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Sounds like another "Wrath of Kahn" internal investigation probe to be undertaken
and will be done in the name of appeasement.

a cold winter followed by a slow thaw
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Pakistan should surrender these people to India
instead of protecting them.

The noose is tightening around Pakistan and pretty soon, everyone will be out to destroy that illegitimate terrorist nation.

It cannot withstand a war and economic crisis to save itself from being balkanized.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
17. This BBC report goes into the history & changing relationship between
ISI and this group:

Pakistan's surprise raid on Lashkar

By Syed Shoaib Hasan
BBC News, Karachi

Pakistan's decision to move against Lashkar-e-Taiba has come as a surprise to analysts in the country.

It also suggests a possible shift in policy by Islamabad towards the militant organisation.

Pressure has come from India, which blames the militant group for the Mumbai (Bombay) attacks last month.

Pakistan's neighbour and long-time bitter rival has demanded that action be taken against Lashkar.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7771360.stm
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. Nobody could have predicted this.
Least of all me, who predicted this the day it happened. Obviously, both I and this article are somehow incorrect.
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varun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I predicted that LeT was possibly involved
and I predict that all that Pakistan is doing ("raiding" LeT hideouts) is "Window dressing" - nothing concrete.

Pakistan has been fooling the world since 911.

I do not foresee any major change in its policies.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. 1st paragraph = states "ISI links" , 2nd paragraph states" No ISI links" ?
....has quietly gained strength in recent years with the help of Pakistan’s main spy service, ......

American officials say there is no hard evidence to link the spy service...



these unreliable papers are not going out of buisness fast enough .
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. The second paragraph
only means "no concrete evidence yet" of ISI links.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. The first paragraph
only states there is an ISI connection.


Pakistan has to back stab a few mid management ISI agent types and hope for the best.

I think the UN may be ready to issue a "tough worded" statement soon.

scarey I know
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