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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:10 AM
Original message
Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking
Source: Washington Post

Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking

By Cheryl W. Thompson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 5, 2008; Page A10

States with lax gun laws had higher rates of handgun killings, fatal shootings of police officers, and sales of weapons that were used in crimes in other states, according to a study underwritten by a group of more than 300 U.S. mayors.

The report, which was obtained by The Washington Post, found that 10 states, including Virginia, supplied 57 percent of the guns that were recovered in crimes in other states in 2007. The 38-page report is based on an analysis of annual crime-gun data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The analysis tracks guns used in crimes back to the retailers that first sold them.

Virginia ranked sixth last year as a supplier of out-of-state crime guns per 100,000 inhabitants. West Virginia topped the list, according to the study by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a bipartisan coalition headed by New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg (I) and Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino (D). Maryland ranked Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking

"It's only a small group of states responsible for interstate gun trafficking," said John Feinblatt, criminal justice coordinator for New York City. "Not only do their guns victimize people from out of state, they have higher gun-violence rates themselves.



Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. ...
:popcorn:
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. So?
This is not news to the anti-gun lobby, and not relevant to the pro-gun lobby.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It does however put a dammper on the "more guns will keep us safe" meme.
If only those little Amish girls had carried guns to school!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. kick
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. No it doesn't.
That's the problem. The gun nuts go straight from this to "see how the libmedia (Wapo?) likes to blow this thing into the anti-gun eye?" and "The next thing you know these libs will be using this to take all our guns away." After that they stockpile guns against what they see as inevitable: the removal of their 2nd amendment rights. They aren't going to listen to the logic of evidence.

The more irrational the nuts are made to become, the harder control is to institute. I wish we would stop hearing studies like this because we already know what the problem is and it seems as though we could deal with it if it were dealt with quietly instead of blowing what appears to the nuts as a trumpet prefatory to an invasion of rights.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. That is a non sequitur
The Amish, as a matter of fact, like their guns very much. (Most of them are farmers.)
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. as the advocate of the devil
I argue that these states are more violent, so they let their citizens have easier access to handguns in an effort to help the people defend themselves.
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. The headline is bullshit...
The headline states that law gun laws are linked to "rates of slayings." But what the study really found is quoted in the article:

"The 10 states with the highest crime-gun export rates had nearly 60 percent more gun homicides than the 10 states with the lowest rates. The high-export states also had nearly three times as many fatal shootings of police officers."

They're not comparing states with "loose gun laws" to states with stricter gun laws in terms of murders and police shootings, they're comparing states based on the rate at which they "export" firearms to places with strict regulations. According to the study, the 10 states with the lowest "export" rates have significantly lower firearm murder stats than the top 10. I wonder which states those are? Most likely, the states with the lowest export rates are rural states not in close proximity to states with strict regulations. The Dakotas, Montana, Alaska, etc.

If the study was a straight comparison of murder and violence rates between states with strict gun laws and states with permissive gun laws, they'd find that states and localities that restrict RKBA have much more violence than places that don't. I can't think of any non-restrictive regions with higher homicide rates than places like DC, NYC, Chicago, Boston, Baltimore, south central LA, etc.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. recommend
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. Where do criminals get their guns?
The report examined how guns travel from the legal market to the black market and into criminals' hands, as well as the relationship between a state's gun laws and the probability that it will be a source of guns recovered in out-of-state crimes.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Selling a gun to a person who is prohibited from owning one is a crime
So is making a straw purchase, i.e. buying a gun for someone else - That is illegal for both parties regardless of the eligibility of either to own a gun.

If you sell a gun to a person who is prohibited from owning one and the transaction comes to the attention of law enforcement, BOTH of you go to prison.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. It appears that Virginia has declared war on the rest of the country
But as long as some influential crooks are making money, it's all good, and what's a little bloodshed, mayhem and assorted violence when there's money to be made?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. This is a no brainer.
the more easily available guns are, the more gun related crimes there will be.

This is why we need much STRONGER regulation across the board.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. Guns don't kill. Unregulated gun laws kill.
Strengthen and unify the laws.

Track the owner of every gun and every transfer of gun.


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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. It is kind of a duh study
Criminals will get their guns from the easiest place to get them. law abiding gun owners jump thru hoops to get theirs legally.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. Tempest in a teapot
States aren't responsible for gun trafficking. Gun runners are.
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
17. One would think
That this is a no-brainer - plain old commonsense would tell you this. But the propaganda is high.
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Lex1775 Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. I guess Virginia's "One Gun a Month Law" isn't working. n/t
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'll wait for the report.
The devil's in the details, if anywhere.

For instance, some things are quirky. DC is going to skew things, because just about any gun used in a crime will have to be imported. The two states nearest are MD and VA, with "lax" gun laws. That will skew the figures.

"States requiring gun owners to report their weapons lost or stolen to law enforcement authorities export crime guns at less than one-third the rate of states that do not mandate reporting. Seven states have such a requirement; Maryland and Virginia do not." Seven out of 50 isn't an impressive percentage; having established that MD and VA are already high-exporting states might well account for nearly all of the difference. But we can't tell.

While, MD and VA are IDed as high-exporting states, we have, nonetheless, a net import for MD: "In Virginia, 2,261 guns were sold that were used in crimes in other states in 2007, while 1,100 crime guns were identified as having been brought into the state. Maryland exported 445 crime guns that year, and 1,943 were identified as having been imported." That import, with DC's, might account for nearly all of VA's exports. Can't tell. If so, we have a small megalopolis accounting for a lot of the problem, with the report spreading the pain over many other states that aren't esp. a problem. Can't tell.

There's also the basic question of reporting: Do all states have the same success in IDing where guns used in crimes originate? It's not a trivial question; perhaps I should know the answer, but don't.

There are other questions that arise that need answered before I take the report at face value. Why? Because mayors are typically not anti-gun control. They have a problem with crime, the easy political solution is to restrict gun sales. Many are already ideologically disposed towards that solution anyway. With medical research, there's often a bias in interpretation of the data in the direction of the viewpoint desired by the funding source. Not always, but often. And it should be ruled out when reading medical journal articles, and, well, any research.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
20. one person's "fatal shootings of police officers"
is another person's "defense against jack-booted government thugs", guaranteed by the second amendment. Remember, the second amendment was designed to protect people against oppressive governments. Blowing away a police officer who is oppressing you is YOUR RIGHT.

Real men don't need police anyway - it you always carried a gun, you would just heroically confront the criminal and stop them dead in their tracks. Just like in the movies.

It's not a "handgun killing", it's "another martyr dying for the second amendment". Besides, if everyone were armed, only bad guys would die. Obviously the victims have bought into liberal rhetoric about gun control.

"It's only a small group of states responsible for interstate gun trafficking," really means those states are helping citizens throughout this country to evade oppressive anti-second amendment laws and exercising their right to defend themselves. Sort of like free states helping slaves to escape, really.

and I'm afraid I have to add that yes, I'm mocking the gun nut population here. I wish I could come up with something so ridiculous even they could see how absurd it is, but I really doubt it. They caricature themselves. I'd almost accuse them of being trolls, but I think they actually would believe everything I said above.

What should I expect from folks who believe I'm endangering my dogs (two pit bulls) because I'm not at home protecting them with a gun during the day? Seriously, I've gotten that reply here on DU.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Nice
I support reasonable second amendment ownership. I have an advanced degree and fit none of that crap you spewed.

Give me a call when you gun ban folks win the war on drugs. They are banned, but somehow criminals still sell crack.

How can that happen?

Once that ban works, try a gun ban. I'll be waiting.
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. So if you make it nearly impossible
to buy guns in your area criminals will simply find some other way to obtain them, rather than giving up a life of crime and starting a co-op? This is shocking!
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