Israeli rabbi held hostage by Mumbai gunmen

[oberliner]

Source: The Independent

An Israeli rabbi is being held hostage by gunmen in a Mumbai apartment building after a series of attacks in the city that have killed at least 101 people, police said today.

Indian commando Amit Tiwari told Reuters a woman and a child had been released, and one of the gunmen had been killed, but at least four armed men remained in the building.

The Israeli rescue service Zaka, an ultra-Orthodox organization, identified the hostage as Rabbi Gabriel Holtzberg.

He and his wife, Rivka, operate a cafeteria and synagogue for the Chabad Lubavitch religious group, it said, adding that she and a two-year-old child had been released.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/israeli-rabbi-held-hostage-by-mumbai-gunmen-1037390.html

[Ian David]

1. The Lubavitch are about as far-right as you can get. n/t

[Dorian Gray]

14. So?

That means he should be held hostage by the gunmen?

[Ian David]

18. I did not say that. n/t

[Dorian Gray]

19. I've since read further down the thread

and see I've jumped the gun in my assumptions about what you meant upthread. I am sorry.

[Ian David]

No problem.

The Lubavitcher shouldn't be taken hostage.

They should be shot on sight.






I'm kidding!



Actually, I do hate the Lubavitcher movement with the passion of a thousand white hot burning suns... but this was not the time to be bringing that up.

[LeftishBrit]

32. I feel similarly to you about the movement; but as you point out, disagreeing is one thing...

brutal violence, especially towards a civilian, is another.

[IndianaGreen]

40. The Lubavitch I know are not that bad as people

Sure, they have a homophobic and misogynistic view of the world, but they are not as hateful as RCC and LDS.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

56. No apology. You're full of shit. The Lubavitcher are rabidly anti-gay pieces of shit.

But I wasn't going to bring that up HERE and NOW.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. In order to keep posting here you are required to support Democrats

Calling them the party of hatred won't insure a long stay :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. In order to keep posting here you are required to support Democrats

Calling them the party of hatred won't insure a long stay :hi:

[Ian David]

2. Rabbi Gabriel Holtzberg

Israelis Invade India
By: Dikla Kadosh
May 17, 2006 10:05 PM | Permalink

<snip>

Fernandes discussed his research on Israelis with several visiting students from the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism at a reception in Mumbai. Driving a hard bargain at the bazaar, he said, is the least of Israelis’ offenses in India. According to him, the perception Indians have of Israelis is that they are only interested in drugs and parties. The post-army twenty-somethings alternate between being lazy idlers, he said, and violent aggressors.

Gavriel Holtzberg runs a Chabad House in Mumbai that caters mainly to Israelis on their way to party hotspots such as Goa and Rajasthan. Three flights a week bring hundreds of them from Israel to Mumbai and Holtzberg recognizes the nature of their needs.

“They need relief,” said the young rabbi who grew up in Brooklyn, from the army, from work, from real life. “They come here to do everything the army didn’t allow them to do. Their shoes had to be polished and tied – here they wear sandals. They had to cut their hair – here they grow their hair long.”

Holtzberg is not excusing their behaviour. He just understands the reasons behind it better than the Indians that come into contact with the hordes of escapists.

Itzick Sabag, a 23-year-old Israeli who came to the United States after completing his army service and now lives in New York, is not surprised that Israelis have such a negative reputation in India. The type of person who goes there, he said, has no ambition or direction and is mainly interested in doing nothing. India is the perfect place to do just that.


A silver menorah marks the location of the Chabad House in Mumbai (Dikla Kadosh)

More:
http://web.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/religion/2006/religions/index.htm



Chabad Opens New Center in Bangalore

BANGALORE, KARNATAKA -- (July 17, 2008)
Staff Writer

<snip>

After years of serving Bangalore’s Jewish community through frequent visits and summer and holiday stints by rabbinical students, Rabbi Gabriel Holtzberg, Chabad representative to Bombay, determined that Karnataka’s capital city is due its own Chabad center.

<snip>

The rented facility in the city’s hotel district now serves as a synagogue, a center for Jewish educational classes, and kosher meals. Plans include a mikvah as well.

“The new Chabad Center is the result of the groundwork laid over many holidays and summers during which we developed strong relationships and evaluated the needs of the city’s Jewish population,” says Rabbi Holtzberg.

Other Chabad centers in India are in Mumbai, Manali, and Goa.

More:
http://lubavitch.com/news/article/2023402/Chabad-Opens-New-Center-in-Bangalore.html


Mikvah
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mikvah (or mikveh) (Hebrew: מִקְוָה, Standard Miqva Tiberian Miqwāh; plural: mikva'ot or mikves) is a ritual bath designed for the purpose of ritual immersion in Judaism. The word "mikvah", as used in the Hebrew Bible, literally means a "collection" - generally, a collection of water.<1>

Several biblical regulations specify that full immersion in water is required to regain ritual purity after ritually impure incidents have occurred. Most forms of impurity can be nullified through immersion in any natural collection of water. Some, such as a Zav, however require "living water,"<2> such as springs or groundwater wells. Living water has the further advantage of being able to purify even while flowing as opposed to rainwater which must be stationary in order to purify. The mikvah is designed to simplify this requirement, by providing a bathing facility that remains in ritual contact with a natural source of water.

Its main uses nowadays are:

* by Jewish women to achieve ritual purity after menstruation or childbirth
* by Jewish men to achieve ritual purity (see details below)
* as part of a traditional procedure for conversion to Judaism
* for utensils used for food

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikvah

[oberliner]

3. What are the hostage-takers demanding?

Any idea? I haven't seen much info on that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. Those in one of the hotels demanded the release of 'mujahideen' from prison

One of those (or the only one?) holding the rabbi had a rather confused conversation with Indian TV. Make of it what you can:

http://www.businesswireindia.com/PressRelease.asp?b2mid=17627

[ohio2007]

71. media attention

to rally and offer support to all corners of "the worldwide jihad" movement ?

India: Al-Qaeda websites rejoice over Mumbai attacks

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=3.0.2756280942

The "glorious two" will be cult hero's soon
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/brit-hate-preacher-glorifies-mumbai-terrorists_100124642.html

No ?
why not ?

We killed too many, say Bali bombers

Three Islamic radicals behind the bombings in which 202 people died talk in prison to our writer about faith, mass murder and their impending execution by firing squad

snip
Did he deny the charges? “People called me the mastermind of the Bali bombing,” he said. “Maybe right, maybe wrong. My only mission was to help the Muslims.” And then he said something extraordinary. He claimed the bombers had never meant to kill so many people. What happened at Paddy’s Bar and the Sari Club was “unacceptable”, he said. Had he made the bomb? “No, no, no!” he said, shaking his head. “I didn’t help to make it, and who made the bomb and when I don’t know.”

The second explosion was much bigger than they had expected, he said.

The only explanation, he suggested, was that “the CIA or KGB or Mossad” - those familiar bogeymen of the conspiracy theorist – had somehow tampered with the bomb. “It is very possible,” he claimed.


snip
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3466833.ece

People here talked at great length about "the bogemen".

I wonder wht his screen name was ?

[oberliner]

58. Rabbi Holtzberg and his wife have been pronounced dead

Breaking on CNN:

Rabbi, wife among dead in Mumbai Jewish center

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

5. We know his name because it was printed in an Israeli newspaper.

Give it a fucking rest already.

Is there something wrong with you we should know about?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

8. You keep typing, but all I hear is "Blah, blah blah I hate Jews." n/t

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurska]

9. There is a innocent man being HELD HOSTAGE you partisan lunatic

HE COULD BE KILLED
Can't you anti-zionists shut your trap for 5 minutes?

[Ian David]

11. Calling him "anti-Zionist" is being charitable. n/t

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ohio2007]

24. pssst. this Mumbai scenario is about freedom for Kashmire from Indian opression

get the facts from the jihadi websites straight before you confuse the two 'struggles':eyes:

[Gadzooks1]

29. Yes, you are right, of course.

[LeftishBrit]

30. Exactly

This mainly involves a quite different I/P conflict: the India/Pakistan conflict.

[ohio2007]

44. Mumbai: Terrorist Demand For All Mujahideens To Be Released

MUMBAI, Nov 27 (Bernama)-- A militant, along with his six attackers who are holding hostages inside Mumbai's Trident Hotel demanded for all Mujahideens held in India to be released, China's Xinhua news agency reported Thursday.

The militant identified as Sahadullah said the hostages will only be released from the luxury hotel if India meet with their demand.

Mujahideens are Muslims involved in a jihad, who is fighting in a war or involved in any other struggle.
"Release all the Mujahideens, and Muslims living in India should not be troubled," he told reporters.

snip

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsworld.php?id=374709

A bold statement calling for all freedom fighters to be released.
and why are they being held in the first place ?

:sarcasm:

[LeftishBrit]

28. And this somehow excuses xenophobic terrorist attacks on Western civilians?

Sorry, this sounds like a mirror-image of the right-wing justifications for attacking Iraq because they're all Muslims so they must somehow be linked to 9-11!

Collective punishment, xenophobic violence, guilt by association, and 'blaming the victim' are always morally and intellectually wrong - and politically far-Right. Whoever is doing it.

[sellitman]

6. Hate much?

Go crawl back under your rock.

[oberliner]

13. Foreign Ministry: Israeli hostages in Mumbai may be dead

Senior officials at Israel's Foreign Ministry said Thursday that the hostages held by terrorists at the Chabad headquarters in Mumbai may be dead, as the gunmen holed up at the center urged the Indian government to negotiate with them over the hostages' release.

The remarks came as ongoing terror attacks at ten different locations across Mumbai left at least 125 people dead and hundreds wounded.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041535.html

[ohio2007]

16. they can still trade hundreds of prisoners for his body.nt

[Kurska]

22. There needs to be a response

This just can't stand

[Gadzooks1]

26. Yes, a response. Perhaps we should

invade Venezuela.

[Gadzooks1]

15. OK, got it...they hate us for our freedom.

[ohio2007]

20. they hate us cuz we are not ultra right fundies of their preferred flavor

religion of fear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3_qelW5qp4#
deja vu II due

Will this will be the six month test Biden mentioned ?

Better wait and see

[Kurska]

21. There is no defense for purposely targeting innocent civilians in terror acts

You just don't seem to get that

[Gadzooks1]

23. By............? And, I do not recall

justifying anything. Pointing out that there are probably reasons.

[Kurska]

25. There is no "probable reason" for killing jewish rabbis for being a jewish rabbi

It's called killing a innocent man for no fucking reason, nothing justifies or explains that. It is a heinous act and I can't believe you're here trying to force your partisan little view into a thread about a tragedy not only for the jewish people, but for that man's friends and family.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

38. Sure, and there were probably reasons for murdering Danny Pearl

So what? A "reason" doesn't justify murder.

[LeftishBrit]

31. I hope he will be OK!

This whole thing is a nightmare.

[Gadzooks1]

33. I hope they will all be OK.

[LeftishBrit]

35. So do we all.

[dennis4868]

34. who is saying that the rabbi...

is Israeli? Not that it matters but I am interested to know this....

[oberliner]

36. The Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz indicates that he is Israeli

Chabad spokesman Moni Ender in Israel said there were eight Israelis inside the house, including Rabbi Holtzberg and his wife.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041569.html

[dennis4868]

37. I know the Rabbi's wife is...

Israeli but I did not know that the Rabbi was also an Israeli....anyway, it does not matter...he is an innocent person being held against his will...does not matter where he is from!

[rainbow4321]

60. More on the family

The baby and the nanny were released.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/11/27/2008-11-27_friends_and_family_worry_over_rabbi_and_-1.html

For a second excruciating night, the Brooklyn family of a Crown Heights rabbi and his wife held hostage in Mumbai waited to learn their fate.

Photos showed little Moshe Holtzberg, the couple's 2-year-old son, being carried to freedom from a besieged Jewish community center in India's financial capital.

Since Moshe's rescue, there has been no news of his parents, who were born in Israel and raised in Brooklyn

(snip)

Rabbi Holtzberg has both Israeli and American citizenship. CNN reported Israel was sending its own security team to help resolve the crisis.


On edit: An upthread post just announced that the parents have been pronounced dead :-(

[IndianaGreen]

39. Chabad Lubavitch Centre (BBC)

CHABAD LUBAVITCH CENTRE

Chabad House is a Jewish outreach centre situated in the Nariman business and residential complex.

Police have surrounded the house which gunmen seized overnight.

The centre acts as a centre for prayer and study, attracting many Jewish and Israeli visitors every year.

Reports says that four gunmen remain in the building and a rabbi, his wife and a number of others are thought to have been taken hostage. There have been reports of gunfire.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7751876.stm#chabad

[ohio2007]

41. "'Jews and Hindus attacked Mumbai' " finally makes sense now

bloggers on scene are starting to make sense of it all

time to move this thread ;)

Mumbai and India Under Attack

It is 4AM in India right now. I am in Mumbai reporting from the ground. I have not slept a wink. Mumbai is under attack.
...
snip
Our worst fears have come true. It is clear that Mossad is involved in the whole affair. An entire city has been attacked by Mossad and probably units of mercenaries. It is not possible for one single organization to plan and execute such a sophisticated operation. It is clear that this operation was backed by communal forces from within the Indian State.
snip

A photograph published in Urdu Times, Mumbai, clearly shows that Mossad and ex-Mossad men came to India and met Sadhus and other pro-Hindutva elements recently. A conspiracy was clearly hatched.

snip

This is a moment of reckoning especially for Hindus of India. The killers of Gandhi have struck again. If we are true Sanatanis and true Hindus and true nationalists and true patriots we have to see this act as a clear attack by anti-national deshdrohi forces. Praggya Singh, Advani and the entire brand is anti-national. They ought to be shot. Any Hindu siding with them is hereafter warned of serious consequences.

This is a question of nationalism. If no one else, the Indian army will not take this lying down. Communal, anti-national forces have attacked the very foundation of the Indian constitution and the nation. We will fight a civil war if need be against the pro-Hindutva, communal forces and their Israeli backers.
http://ikhwanweb.com/Article.asp?ID=18774&SectionID=100

Wonder who's paying them ?

[Behind the Aegis]

42. Makes you wonder what his/her sceen name is here.

;)

[Dorian Gray]

47. It's funny

because it's true.

[Guaranteed]

43. That reads like "cut the tall trees."

Somehow I'm betting whatever is happening is more complicated than the blogger would like to think.

[ohio2007]

46. that blogger is "hammering" a truth to keep denial flowing through Egypt

pitty no coment section
;)
lol
denial,
maybe hats why there isn't a comment section

[Guaranteed]

45. Reading that again- I'm shocked that you would post that on DU. nt

[ohio2007]

48. maybe you should read it for a third time ? and go to the links of previous posts

to this "muslim brotherhood " screed monger.


lol
isn't it obvious ?

[Zynx]

68. Oh for God's sake. Not this shit again.

[Gadzooks1]

51. Good scrub. Happy Thanksgiving.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. Commandos storm Mumbai Jewish centre

At least seven commandos on Friday abseiled from a helicopter into the Jewish centre in Mumbai taken by Islamic militants, and explosions were heard, an AFP witness said.

The centre was one of several targets in the city attacked by Islamist gunmen. Officials said hostages, including Israelis, were believed to be held in the building.

It was not clear if the commmandos involved in the assault were Indian or Israeli.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j_ycmmczOnyhEMp0pU02lGpXt9Ow

[IndianaGreen]

53. BBC: 7 hostages rescued at Jewish Centre

On BBC's crawler.

[oberliner]

54. Blast heard at Chabad center

The Foreign Ministry issued a statement late Thursday evening negating media reports that several Israeli hostages were released from the Chabad center in Mumbai. The ministry also said it was currently appealing Indian defense officials for information on the explosion heard from inside the building a short while ago.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3629969,00.html

Seems to be conflicting info coming in.

[IndianaGreen]

55. at least four bodies inside Nariman House (Haaretz)

Jerusalem officials Thursday evening expressed serious concern for the lives of the Israelis being held hostage at the Chabad Nariman House. According to information transmitted to the Israeli authorities, there were at least four bodies inside Nariman House, but it was not known whether they were of Israelis. Indian media reported that about 10 of the hostages being held at the Chabad house were freed by security services, but their identities were not known.

Israeli security officials refused to speculate on whether an attack on Mumbai's Chabad center was specifically aimed at Jews.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041834.html

[oberliner]

57. Indian commandos blow hole in wall of Mumbai Chabad center; 4 Israelis freed from Oberio hotel

Indian commandos blew a hole in the side of the besieged Chabad headquarters in Mumbai as dusk fell Friday, hours after an operation to free the hostages believed trapped inside got underway.

Indian snipers were dropped by helicopter on the roof of the building early Friday morning, and heavy gunfire and explosions were heard at the site several hours later. Reports indicate that at least one terrorist was killed.

Israel's Ambassador to India said on Friday he believed six or more Israeli nationals were still being held hostage by gunmen at the Chabad center.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041834.html

[IndianaGreen]

59. Livni: "the targets...were Jewish, Israeli targets and targets identified with the West"

'Five hostages killed at Mumbai Chabad House'

By Anshel Pfeffer, Barak Ravid, Amos Harel and Yair Ettinger, Haaretz Correspondents, and News Agencies

Livni did not confirm ZAKA's numbers at a news conference about the attack. But she said she could not be optimistic about the hostages' survival.

She said members of Israel's diplomatic mission to India had not entered the Chabad House building in Mumbai because explosives continued to go off after the siege was thought to be over.

"There is no doubt, we know, that the targets the terrorists singled out were Jewish, Israeli targets and targets identified with the West, Americans and Britons," Livni said.

"Our world is under attack, it doesn't matter whether it happens in India or somewhere else," she added. "There are Islamic extremists who don't accept our existence or Western values."

Israeli diplomat Haim Choshen told Israeli television by telephone from the scene that the bodies of five hostages were found Friday after Indian security forces stormed the besieged Chabad center in Mumbai.

"Five bodies of hostages have been found inside the Chabad House," Choshen told Channel 2. "We still don't know whose bodies."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041834.html

[Danmel]

62. Wh So Many Deleted Messages in a thread like this?

Oh yeah- I forgot- a dead Jew a source of joy and celebrations for too many here. I swear sometimes I realy have to wonder what Democratic and Progressive mean? Two little boys are orphans. Four parents are mourning the horrific deaths of their children. What is wrong with some of you.

[Gadzooks1]

63. Actually, no...

some bigot noted that there were over a hundred victims. And that the loss of every one of those lives was equally tragic.

[Dorian Gray]

66. That's revisionist history

of the deleted posts. (Mostly your posts.)

[ohio2007]

69. LOL

the board is heavily biased as I've noticed threads being moved for no reason

other then it goes against the perceptions of "somebodies world view"

snip
Fears that the terrorists - numbering at least 10, nine of whom have been killed - might have had a bigger gameplan while staking out in the five-star hotel only heightened after police recovered two live bombs, each weighing eight kilograms, from the dead terrorists.

snip
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3622768

[marshall]

67. Americans should just stay home, out of harm's way

It's not worth the sacrifice to try and help people.

[ohio2007]

70. Yes. and people will stop hating us for some reason

and start hating us for no reason