Report: Michael Vick threw untrained family pets into dogfighting ring

[RamboLiberal]

Source: NY Daily News

Michael Vick sits in a Virginia jail cell under protective custody and awaits a Tuesday hearing when he will plead guilty to two state charges related to dogfighting. But lurid new details have emerged in the dogfighting case that led to the former Atlanta Falcons quarterback's conviction last year and effectively ended his promising NFL career at age 27.

Vick - who was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison last Dec.10 for his role in bankrolling a dogfighting operation called "Bad Newz Kennels" on his Surry County (Va.) property and for killing some of the underperforming dogs - placed family pet dogs in the fighting ring as trained pit bulls and "caused major injuries" to the pets, according to a 17-page Department of Agriculture report released Friday.

The Aug. 28, 2008 report describes how Vick and two associates, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips, "thought it was funny to watch the pit bull dogs belonging to Bad Newz Kennels injure or kill the other dogs." The report also states that in mid-April of last year, Vick, Peace and Phillips executed approximately six dogs by hanging and drowning. The hanging deaths occurred "by placing a nylon cord over a 2x4 that was nailed to two trees located next to the big shed." The men drowned the others "by putting the dogs' heads in a five-gallon bucket of water."

The USDA originally conducted a search of Vick's Moonlight Road property in June 2007 on suspicion of drugs. But authorities uncovered a grisly dogfighting operation that ultimately resulted in one of the NFL's most electrifying stars becoming its most reviled player.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2008/11/22/2008-11-22_report_michael_vick_threw_untrained_fami.html

---

Vick is SCUM! I wish the NFL would put a lifetime ban on this Scumbag!

[MrSlayer]

1. I wouldn't be opposed to sticking his head into a bucket of water.

This sort of behavior is flat out psychotic. His sentence was far too light.

[saigon68]

96. Not to Worry he'll be back in Thuglanta soon wowing the masses

with his athletic prowess you know

[ryanmuegge]

2. Some of the details in this story nearly make me physically ill.

[hisownpetard]

32. Me, too. I had to stop reading.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

62. Psychologists say that it's 1 tiny step from torturing animals to torturing human beings

It was a matter of time before this sh*thead killed someone. Sociopaths are like that. One day it's a defenseless animal, the next it's you. Belongs in prison, period.

[Hansel]

89. I worked at the Oregon Humane Society

They were discussing with law enforcement the idea of putting together a national database of animal abuse cases so that law enforcement could use it in their work of tracking down violent offenders. I'm not sure what happened with this but I know both parties were very interested.

About a year after I left OHS I began hearing warnings on the radio to people in the Springfield area to keep their cats indoors. They were finding mutilated pet cats on the order of several a month. I feared for the cats, but also was afraid that this would escalate into violent crimes against humans.

This was just before Kip Kinkle killed his parents and then walked into his high school in Springfield and gunned down some of his classmates. They stopped finding mutilated cats after that.

I believe that Vick is a dangerous man. He has no concern for the suffering of others (least of all the most innocent and helpless among us), is strong, and is into power and control. Not a good combination. It's hard to rehabilitate someone like this.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

93. Very interesting, thank you!

I agree with you this one is a dangerous man.

I think animal torturers get something, a good feeling, joy, pleasure, whatever, from torturing helpless creatures and that a database of that sort is probably something that will be useful, if not VITAL, in the future. It terrifies me when I hear of people that do this. I think the torture of animals is a clear and undisputed sign of socio and psychopathological problems.

I agree it's hard to do rehab with people like these. Same with pedophiles.

[hisownpetard]

131. Yes. Reminds me of Bush, making frogs explode. Proves the theory, too.

[saigon68]

136. Ah yea the Killer Chimpanzee

[jhrobbins]

87. Don't get me started about animal rights-I am WAY too extreme

about the penalties for this. My partner and I rescue neglected and abused animals and it has really changed the way I look at almost everything.

[bluestateguy]

3. Waterboarding is an acceptable punishment, as long as due process has been followed

nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

63. Yo have obviously not been reading my posts

I think our current Chimp-in-Chief belongs in prison, but to use that to justify what this @$$hole did, oh please you've GOT to be kidding me, right? If other savages have not gone to prison (mainly Bush), that makes it okay for this @$$hole to not go? Oy vey

[DUlover2909]

4. Dunk Vick's head under water while dogs tear his body apart in a cage.

[themonster]

5. sad

Vick is a complete piece of garbage. I will never understand the mentality of someone like that.

[DUlover2909]

6. Evil is self hatred. Lack of respect for life mirrors a hatred of life in general.

People perform acts of cruelty like this because of their own inner conflicts and loathing. So I say do them (and us) a favor and remove their loathing by removing them.

I am only in favor of the death penalty in rare cases. This would be one of them. His actions were premeditated, he committed numerous offenses, he only faces punishment because he was caught by outsiders, he admitted his crimes and there is overwhelming evidence of his abuses, he received adequate legal representation and he received a fair trial.

I am doubly horrified by acts of senseless cruelty against innocent animals. The animals do not understand what is happening to them. They can not plead for mercy verbally. They can not report an act of abuse, like an adult or even a child can do.

There are many things that distinguish humans from all other life forms. Among them are that animals act without sympathy. For the same reason they also do not act out of cruelty. That's a human thing. It makes me sad that some people take pleasure in cruelty.

[pokercat999]

16. Just a question, not an accusation, are you a vegetarian? If not

please consider changing your eating habits.

[anniebelle]

39. Agreed. I've been a vegan all my life (64 years) and could never indulge in wholesale slaughter.

Everyone needs to see their meat processed from the birth of that animal to their table. I teach my grandchildren the joys of gardening and raising my own vegetables in my modest backyard space and expect them to learn where everything that goes into their bodies comes from. I'm not a religious person but was raised Seventh Day Adventist so was not exposed to the horrors of flesh eating, but have known lots of people who consume flesh on a daily basis. Most are consumed with their belly fat, cholesterol problems, hardening of the arteries, etc. We, as humans, should be able to control what goes in our bodies and our minds.

[TommyO]

42. Oh please, what does this have to do with veganism?

The "horrors of flesh eating?"

Tell you what, you live your life the way you want to, and keep your judgmental self-righteousness to yourself and let other people live their lives the way they want to.

[anniebelle]

79. It has everything to do with respect for "all living creatures".

Not just fuckwads such as yourself.

[jhrobbins]

91. Yeah annie, just STFU-I guess you think this is an opinion forum

where you can say what you feel. :sarcasm:


I do have a question though. There are several laboratories in the world that are working on artificial meat - not soy meat or the current other meat substitutes, but real meat grown in labs. If they perfect it and are able to grow it in a wholesale fashion, what would you think about it then?

[bean fidhleir]

119. "what would you think about artificial meat"

I'm not Anniebelle, but I bet my answer's the same: if what's on your plate was never a sentient creature to begin with, then there's no problem.

The horror is when, for no other reason but enjoyment of the taste, we kill a sentient creature for food, a high-order creature that thinks and feels, forms relationships, takes care of its young, etc. A creature very little different from ourselves.

Robert Louis Stevenson said something that impressed me greatly by its insight: "We feed on babies, though not our own."

[Codeine]

132. I'm not anniebelle,

but I've been a vegan for just a month or so shy of two decades - my whole adult life - and I would be totally willing to eat "vat-grown" meat.

[TommyO]

122. I'm not the arrogant ass telling other people how to eat

Like I said, you eat what you want, I'll eat what I want, that doesn't make me a fuckwad, though your calling me a fuckwad proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are judgmental and self-righteous.

[RattusRattus]

153. Vegan Spokesperson!

Such language definitely helps people to understand your viewpoints. I mean, who doesn't want to listen to someone who's judging them? Frankly, what better way to get people to stop eating meat than getting up on a soapbox declaring being a vegan is the only moral way to live? I'm only a semi-vegetarian (I'll eat meat, I just don't have it for every meal), and I think there are a lot of good reasons for not eating meat all the time, among them being the way the animals are handled, as well as the amount of energy used to raise them as opposed to raising vegetables. You're never going to make people understand your viewpoint by being self-righteous. Additionally, people who have been raised eating meat at every meal, are probably not going to stop eating meat. Why not focus on attainable goals, like getting them to buy meat raised and slaughtered in a humane manner, or having meat only a couple of times a week? If they can be respectful of your beliefs, why can't you be respectful of their's? Has anyone pointed out to you, that it's actually very cruel not to milk dairy cows? Even the ones not pumped up on hormones have been genetically engineered the old fashioned way--selective breeding--to produce more milk. If they don't get milked, they're in pain. Nor do I think eating honey constitutes an act of cruelty. Bees are very important to flora, why is it bad to give them homes, and eat their honey? Obviously the bees survive this.

[life long demo]

52. What does one have to do with the other

A person doesn't have to be a vegetarian to feel disgust about Vick or any other animal abuser. What Vick and his "partners" did and what any other abuser does is morally, ethically and legally wrong. Whether it's a group like dog fighters or a pet owner who abuses his pet. IT IS WRONG!. The same goes for child abusers. You don't have to have children to be disgusted by child abusers. You just have to have a heart, a conscience, and a sense of right and wrong.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

64. Torture of innocent creatures is the issue here. nt

[Bette Noir]

31. "Animals act without sympathy"?

Then why did my lab stay at my side, licking my face, when I tore my hamstring?

Okay, a TV dog would have called 911, but she did what she could.

[frogcycle]

72. bingo

far too many people make these blanket statements about "animals" - lack of intelligence, lack of empathy, etc. because they are hung up on the fictitious distinction between "humans" and "animals."

The only distinctions are matters of degree. The levels of "intelligence" and "emotion" including the ability to comprehend past and future, consequences of actions, mourning a loss, etc. is much, much greater in many creatures than most people, including scientists, are willing to admit.

There is even a pejorative word especially defined to ridicule those who actually get it - anthropomorphism

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anthropomorphism

Scientist would accuse you of naively anthropomorphizing your lab's behavior because he/she really was "just trying to get you to get up and provide food."

silly you! :sarcasm:

[DUlover2909]

140. I can recall the video of Coco the Gorilla crying when her handler signed to her that her kitten

had died. I thought of that after I posted. Oh well.

[DUlover2909]

139. I thought about dogs after I posted. I thought about some others that show sympathy.

Gorillas, elephants, cats (sorta), maybe some do show sympathy. I was thinking of the predator-prey relationship in the wild originally.

You make a good point! :hi:

[frogcycle]

77. evil is fucking evil

don't overanalyze. I don't care if there is "self-hatred" or he's just a sociopath, or just a fucking scumbag.

There are people, as you rightly opine, for whom the death penalty makes sense. People like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, arguably some members of the current administration, with absolutely no compunctions about doing whatever it is that pleasures them, at the expense of any and all other living things and the planet itself. They need to be eliminated. Darwin says so! I don't really care if they are executed or locked up and fed until they die, but there needs to be NO opportunity for society to change its mind later.

[bahrbearian]

7. Vick ,waiting for a Chimpy Pardon,

[Sarah Ibarruri]

66. I think they're both the same person nt

[progdonkey]

8. I think he should star...

...in a real life reenactment of that scene from Hannibal where the disfigured guy in the wheelchair gets eaten by his own wild giant forest hogs.

While his nuts are tied to electrodes so he knows what it's like to be electrocuted, of course, like he did to some of the dogs.

[pecwae]

13. Of all the other suggestions

yours is the one I would really like to see come true for this bastard.

[truthisfreedom]

9. I'm disturbed by vilification of any sort.

I'd prefer to have multiple witnesses and written, signed statements online where I could read them.

You'll never find me supporting the inhumane treatment of animals. But the NY Daily News is not my god-given source of the unquestionable truth.

[4lbs]

10. I'll trust the federal government's case and evidence presented as "proof".

The federal government rarely brings a case to light unless it has rock-solid, slam-bang, nearly irrefutable evidence and witnesses.

They "dot their I's and cross their T's" in high detail. That's why they have a 95% conviction rate. "Conviction rate" includes defendants taking a plea when confronted with the often overwhelming amount of evidence the Feds have amassed against them.

The federal indictment of Vick brought last year said almost the exact same things as this one the state of Virginia details.

[pipoman]

12. This sounds like either someone who

has had no direct experience with federal criminal law or is a federal prosecutor/leo/prison guard.

They "dot their I's and cross their T's" in high detail. That's why they have a 95% conviction rate. "Conviction rate" includes defendants taking a plea when confronted with the often overwhelming amount of evidence the Feds have amassed against them.

They have a 95% conviction rate not because of the overwhelming evidence but because of the blackmail which occurs in plea offers. The punishment in the federal system doesn't allow for parole and the time sentenced is actually close to the time served (unlike state prison which releases people to parole programs after a fraction of their time is served). The threat of conviction even with often flimsy evidence provokes a lot of innocent people to accept pleas who would likely be acquitted at trial with a decent lawyer. Put yourself in that position. You are indicted on a charge you didn't do which faces a term of 10 years in federal prison (likely maximum security for at least part of that term regardless of the charge) or you can take 18 months in a minimum security prison, what do you do? Are you a high stakes gambler? Are you able to afford good representation? Are you stuck with an overwhelmed substandard appointed defender (this describes most I have known)? Then once in the federal prison the SIS does everything in their power to set you up or otherwise increase your sentence, its their job.

Beware of prosecutors (or systems) which brag of a 95% conviction rate. Either they are blackmailing many people or they are not prosecuting enough cases.

[4lbs]

95. Your argument fails in one area: Vick had a huge amount of money to pay for a really good lawyer.

He still took a plea deal. Using your logic, because he had a $1000-an-hour type of lawyer, if he was truly innocent he should have just fought it in court instead of taking the plea deal.

What's that say about the veracity of the evidence against him?

[pipoman]

128. Not arguing Vick's innocence

I agree he is guilty as hell, nor am I saying that all federal charges brought are without merit, indeed most are good cases. I am disputing your statement:

"The federal government rarely brings a case to light unless it has rock-solid, slam-bang, nearly irrefutable evidence and witnesses.

They "dot their I's and cross their T's" in high detail. That's why they have a 95% conviction rate. "Conviction rate" includes defendants taking a plea when confronted with the often overwhelming amount of evidence the Feds have amassed against them."

I couldn't disagree more.

[pecwae]

14. Yes, poor Michael Vick

A victim of vilification.

FUCK Michael Vick! And FUCK anyone making excuses for his cruelty!

[Mike Daniels]

108. Only on DU will you find people who will continue to look for excuses for Vick's behavior

or find a way to vilify the system instead of Vick.

Maybe these people can hire Vick to take care of their pets after he gets out jail. Lord knows, he'll need the jobs.

[Zynx]

27. In totality, there is no doubt to Vick's guilt.

[TBF]

34. Sounds to me like you're excusing his behavior with that statement of disbelief.

Here are some links for you:

http://www.animallaw.info/pleadings/pbusfdvick.htm

http://news.lp.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/sports/usvick82407plea.html

http://news.lp.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/sports/usvick82407sof.html


Now we'll see if legal documents themselves are enough for you, or if you will continue to find excuses for this scumbag.

[RamboLiberal]

144. NY Daily News is good source - AP make you happy?

Witness: Vick put family pets in with pit bulls
By HANK KURZ Jr. – 1 day ago

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Michael Vick put family pets in rings with pit bulls and thought it was funny watching the trained killers injure or kill the helpless dogs, a witness told federal investigators during the dogfighting investigation that brought Vick down.

In a 17-page report filed Aug. 28, 2008, by case agent James Knorr of the U.S. Department of Agriculture and released Friday under the Freedom of Information Act, a person identified as confidential witness No. 1 said Vick placed pets in the ring against pit bulls owned by "Bad Newz Kennels" at least twice and watched as the pit bulls "caused major injuries."

The witness said Vick and co-defendants Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips "thought it was funny to watch the pit bull dogs belonging to Bad Newz Kennels injure or kill the other dogs."

Vick was sentenced to 23 months in prison in Dec. 2007, and is due to be released from the federal prison at Leavenworth, Kan., on July 20, 2009. He returned to Virginia on Thursday and is being held in Hopewell pending his appearance in Surry County Circuit Court on Tuesday, where he is expected to plead guilty to two felony charges but receive a suspended sentence.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jRTbrNuO65z9nbnlv2DD6WLWGe3AD94JPQI80

[FreeStateDemocrat]

11. Forget he’s a sociopath, more importantly the NFL needs him in uniform as a role model.

If the NFL can make money off of his playing and they can get away with foisting it off on the public, he will be making millions again as early as next season. Only in America.

[undeterred]

123. They need him in a prison uniform

so that kids will understand that being in the NFL does not make you above the law or make you a good role model.

[pokercat999]

15. Michael Vick has spent his entire life in Americas most

violent game, can we expect less from him?

The NFL is filled with trained thugs applauded for their vicious brutality. They try their best to cover this up with their charitable work and lots of advertising and propaganda but in the harsh unfiltered light of day it comes down to Americans love their modern day gladiators. That one should step out side the arena with his hatred and violence is not to be unexpected and the reaction from the NFL will be because of that, the publicity not the behavior.

[cali]

18. yes of course, all football players are nothing but violent thugs.

your claim that "The NFL is filled with trained thugs.." is bullshit. And if you think football is the most violent game, you've never watched professional hockey.

Michael Vick is a heartless asshole- but not because he played professional football.

[INDIA]

24. Yes, like FSU's Myron Rolle. He was awarded the Rhodes Scholarship last night.

He then boarded a plane to DC, where he arrived late and helped his team defeat Maryland. Amazing story.

In other news, Pokercat999, wasn't awarded the Rhodes Scholarship last night. Shocker.

[High Plains]

68. Oh, give me a fucking break.

This is a really insane thread.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

70. Excuse me, but please name other athletes that engage in a little secret torturing of innocent

animals who aren't even trained to attack or anything at all. They're just little animals who love their owners and lick them and walk with them. Oh please give me a break okay?

[frogcycle]

bullshit n/t

[DS1]

102. absolutely pathetic attempt at trolling for this board

you failed so fucking much

[BlueManDude]

17. Frankly I'm tired of the villification of Michael Vick.

[sellitman]

19. He vilified himself.

Are you equally as upset at the vilification of George W Bush too?

[EV_Ares]

20. Frankly I am tired of those that try to defend Vick. How can you vilify a Villon? He brought this

on himself.

[BlueManDude]

29. He was just the Black Villain Athlete du jour - there's always another 'round the corner

move on.

[KittyWampus]

30. Sorry, I don't give a fuck WHAT color that asshole's skin is. I want him to be the posterboy

for ridding society of people who mistreat animals.

His star-status yielded a large amount of money in the past.

His star-status can yield a large amount of attention to animal cruelty.

[hisownpetard]

33. Right on.

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. !!

:applause:

[rasputin1952]

35. I don't think it has anything to do w/his being black...

he is a sociopath, the same as any other individual thjat would do this type of thing, regardless of color, religion, gender or anything else. The man is a a sadistical digusting element of society. I think his sentence was light, he should spend 20 years behind bars. Many others have gotten far longer sentences for non-violent crimes, (think having pot or stealing a loaf of bread when starving). Vick actually got off easy because of his "celebrity" status.

People who would harm animals this way, would have little reason to stop there, humans may have fallen into this web eventually, (most likely females). These people are miscreants, they are to be vilified wherever they are found. Vick used his "status" and money to bring cruelty upon a much weaker element of the animal kingdom, I cannot find any empathy for such a miserable creature.

[EV_Ares]

37. What he did has nothing to do with race; nor does it matter another one is around the corner, the

one(s) around the corner need to be punished as well.

So you think just because he is black, just because another one is around the corner it is OK. That is pure BS.

[natrat]

46. are you serious? black white whatever-the guy is fucked up and s/b locked up for a long time

[awoke_in_2003]

54. the fact that he is a pro athlete

got him the minimum sentence. You or I would have gotten longer

[Sarah Ibarruri]

67. Oh yeah? Do you see any other black athletes doing this shit? I don't think so....

so please stop throwing all black athletes into a dumpster by comparing them with this @$$hole. Much appreciated.

[BlueManDude]

83. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of white America's love-hate relationship

with black athletes - not claiming all black athletes are in the "thug life."

Think before you post.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

85. Well let me tell you, if this were a white athlete, I'd want him raked through the coals....

the fact that it's accidental that he's black is not going to stop me from calling this Vicks asshole an asshole. He's an asshole and deserves to be punished for torturing innocent pets. I have a dog. I can't even imagine it. You must have no pets or something.

[pecwae]

117. Take your own posting advice, hmmmm.

Trying the 'just pointing out hypocrisy' excuse after getting toasted for an idiotic post doesn't cut it.

[Hosnon]

90. That's ridiculous. nt.

[LanternWaste]

100. Post Hoc Ergo Prompter Hoc...

Post Hoc Ergo Prompter Hoc... :eyes:

[XemaSab]

135. So it's about racism?

People of every color fight dogs.

I have found DEAD dogs dumped in vacant lots and canals. Dog fighting is NOT OK.

[TankLV]

55. You've got to be fucking kidding me!

That piece of GARBAGE will NEVER be "villified" enough.

you are fucking amazing - in a BAD way...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

69. He did a sickening, revolting thing. Evidently you must know people who do this and you're ok w/it

I don't know could possibly be going through your head that you seem to think this is just fine and dandy.

[Mike Daniels]

109. Because it's all someone else's fault that Vick threw away his life ...

and showed himself to be a sadistic asshole.

Correct?

[GCP]

124. You've got to be fucking kidding me

The guy is a psychopath, deal with it.

[cosmicone]

154. This is not about race.

I don't care what color, gender, race, ethnicity, religion or political beliefs Vick has .... his actions are abhorrent in any culture.

I feel sad when people make this about race. Do the dogs care if their owners are white or black or red or yellow or brown? The dogs love the owners with extreme loyalty regardless. Why can't we be as good as the dogs?

[Dr.Phool]

21. Maybe he can get an endorsement deal for Chinese dog food.

[Wizard777]

22. Kill 1.2 million PEOPLE and it's not a problem. But kill a couple of dogs and you must go to jail.

:eyes: Ooooooh yeah we have our priorities in order.

[Zynx]

26. So, should every murderer who only kills one person go free? How about rapists?

[TBF]

38. Why are the two mutually exclusive? Both are horrible. n/t

[summer borealis]

41. I never say this to anyone, but ...

...

[Faygo Kid]

45. You should not have edited it.

Let me respond, then: You, Wizard 777, are an asshole.

[Wizard777]

116. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

If you think animal rights are superior to human rights. You're too sick in the head to be allowed outside of a padded cell. Why don't you try shooting a hunter in defense of a deer. Let us know how the human right to life vs. animal right life aspects work out in court. :eyes:

[Faygo Kid]

121. Mom's gone.

Who said anything about animal rights being superior to human rights? You approve of animal abuse, apparently. A padded cell awaits you. Except for the padding.

[Wizard777]

129. Thats what you were eluding too in your response. Why would you think I approve of animal abuse?

Apparently you don't do well with dynamic statements. So let me explain. You have two guys killing 1.2 million people and a guy killing a few dogs. A cop seeing both killings runs right past the guys killing 1.2 million people to arrest the guy killing a few dogs. He won't even seriously consider arresting the guys killing 1.2 million people. Does this officer have his priorities in order? That's all I was tersely saying.

I'm sorry to hear about your Mom. But I don't think she would approve of you calling a 76 year old man an asshole. But in your defense I have to say, your not the first and I don't think you'll be the last. ;-)

[natrat]

49. wizzard -complex thought is tough for you, huh?

[GOPNotForMe]

50. False dichotomy and you know it. nt

[LanternWaste]

78. That irrelevancy aside...

"Kill 1.2 million PEOPLE and it's not a problem"
I think it's a problem. Most posters on DU think it's a problem. Most people I know think it's a problem. That little irrelevancy of yours aside aside...

How one reacts to the one is certainly not predicated on how one reacts to the other.

[Kajsa]

82. NO, they are both problems.

But it sounds like animals don't count
as far as you're concerned.


I hope I'm wrong.

[Wizard777]

110. You are wrong. As is everyone else. I OWN TWO PIT BULLS.

But with many here at DU willing to quickly jump to conclusions and assume the worst about a fellow democrat. What the hell do we need Freepers for? I merely resent the appearance that we value animal rights above human rights in the contrast of certain cases. As much as I love my two dogs, Sweet & Heart, Human rights will always be above animal rights. No amount of grousing from the DU piss whine, moan, groan, and complain society will change that view. Human rights are supreme. I do not condone what Vick has done as some seem to think. It is more of a comment on what Bush & Cheney has done. Let try to restate this. If we can lock up Vick for killing a few dogs. Jailing Bush & Cheney for killing 1.2 million PEOPLE is a real no brainer.

Btw, thank you for at least considering that a fellow Democrat might have some human decency.

[Kajsa]

118. You're welcome.

I'm against cruelty to any living creature,
human or animal.

Humans are animals, btw.
We are part of the animal kingdom and I advocate
for human/animal rights.

[Wizard777]

126. I also support animal rights that are within reason as I support human rights that are reasonable.

I also understand the Manimal all too well. I can even justify Human rights being superior to animal right. If only because that's how it is nature. The lion is King of the jungle until man sets foot in that jungle. Then the lion is immediately dethroned. The shark is the top predator in the ocean until man enters the Oceans. Then man becomes the top predator. I'm against cruelty to animals and humans. I'm also against the denaturing of animals and humans. There is one part of human nature that sets us apart from the animals.
We have the ability to provide animals with rights they cannot comprehend, assert, or waive. But I can't see any means by which animals could provide for human right. Well, outside of Disney movies any way. I guess that's why God made us King and animals our subjects. We have a greater ability to care for them than they have to care for us.

I really enjoy the conversations and sharing of ideas here on DU much more than the drive by snipings.

[Hosnon]

92. Um...are you suggesting that until all guilty people are tried and convicted

no guilty person should be punished?

Amazingly, we can do more than one thing at a time. :eyes:

[Wizard777]

113. No not at all. But our Constitution demands equal protection of law for PEOPLE.

Selective enforcement of the law will not provide for this. In fact it's contrary to it. So if we are going to prosecute Vick for killing animals. Then we must also prosecute Bush & Cheney for their mass murders. If we do not. Then we begin to form precedenses by which mass murders may not be tried for their crimes. But equal protection of law is very black and white. We either prosecute all offenses against our laws or we prosecute no offenses against our laws. Either way will provide an equal protection of law.

[Hosnon]

120. I agree that all other similar animal killers need to prosecuted along with Mr. Vick

to ensure equal protection.

I don't, however, think that the prosecution of Mr. Vick requires all other laws must be prosecuted to ensure equal protection. As horrible as war crimes are, if no one is being prosecuted for them, then Bush and Cheney not being prosecuted for them is not a violation of equal protection.

[Wizard777]

127. That's an interesting point. I've never though of it in those terms.

Is it too late to drop charges against the Nazi's we tried for war crimes? How about some of our troops in Iraq we have charged with war crimes? Lindsay Englands newborn son will be 11 years old when she gets out of prison for her war crimes at Abu Ghraib. "Just following orders" was the only defense they tried to offer. I guess we do prosecute people for war crimes.

The constitution provides for equal protect of law. Not laws. That's an all inclusive statement. Which is why I say we enforce all the laws or none of the laws. We cannot cherry pick which laws to enforce or not enforce. Like they were Iraq WMD's intelligence. ;-)

[mondo joe]

146. And which body do you suggest arrest and charge Bush?

?

[Wizard777]

147. Executive branch.

[mondo joe]

148. The current executive branch, or the next?

If you say the next, are you suggesting no one be charged with any crime until then?

[Wizard777]

155. No, they should be charged now, But that's not likely.

Congress is too afraid of political repercussions. Republicans trying to induce retaliatory gridlocks. As in If you are going to use this government to prosecute us for our crimes. We'll shut this government down. To that I say, go right ahead and further shred yourself. I have no problem with the minor inconveniences of the republican party dooming themselves to extinction. Resisting prosecution will hurt them far more than it hurts us. Refusing to prosecute will hurt us far more than it will hurt them. Both the democrats and republican have their hand on the sword. We have to be ever mindful of which way the sharped point of the sword is facing. They can turn it on us just as easily as we can turn it on them.

[donco6]

130. So, unless Bush goes to jail, Vick should go free? n/t

[kdmorris]

23. What a horrible way to die

It's so sad to imagine the last few hours of those dogs.

I watch a Dogtown special on National Geographic once about 6 of the dogs that came from that compound. I cried through most of it.

[Baby Snooks]

25. True justice..

True justice would be for Vick, Peace and Phillips to be thrown into a cage with pit bulls they abused and allow the pit bulls to tear them to shreds.

The race card was played in this in the beginning. The African-American community really needs to do some soul-searching with regard to OJ Simpson and Michael Vick.

[dzjc]

28. Vick Will Be Back....Unfortunately

He should be banned for life from any and all professional sporting organizations (NFL, Arena Football, et. al.) and be forced to a 9-5 job like 99% of most Americans. He's lived a privileged life with no accountability (and this 18-month sentence doesn't fit the crime) for too long.

Unfortunately, I believe there will be at least one NFL team willing to bring him back, and I think it will be the Raiders or the Cowboys. Al Davis and Jerry Jones provide halfway-houses for the thugs in the NFL.

Dale

[rasputin1952]

40. Welcome to DU dzjc!

:hi:

As far as Vick making a comeback...people would be outraged. Sure, some would not care, but those are the one's who would have gone to his "kennel" anyway, another bunch of sadistic slobs.

Vick is done for, I think he would become a "target" for defensive players, and if he set foot on the field during a game, he'd be beaten to a pulp under a constant barrage of linemen and linebackers. Almost everyone despises things like this, and he will be vilified for the rest of his life. I wouldn't have him in my residence as a doorstop.

[Frisbee]

53. And in addition to those Defensive players...

hopefully at least one person on his own offensive line would feel the same way and let say a Rodney Harrison type through. IF he's ever signed by another team (a big risk to ticket sales and merchandising for sure), I would sure hope that he receives a career ending injury in his first game back, though he'd still have millions in signing bonuses by then more than likely. While I won't go so far as to say he should have been executed (though I wouldn't have protested had he), I think a 10-20 year sentence would have been much more appropriate and would have sent a message to those other assholes who get their kicks hurting animals. And to those assholes on this list who defend him or say he's being vilified, go fuck yourselves. Every bad thing done or said about or to him was brought on by his own acts of evil, so take your holier that thou act and shove it were the sun don't shine. And anyone who says this was about race, is probably a person who tries to say anything bad that happens to a person of color is about race. It's NOT always about race. Most people I know were outraged by this story and would have been equally so had it been a white person. This story more than most has told me a lot about a number of people.

[awoke_in_2003]

57. need to start a letter writing campaign now...

let the NFL know how we feel. Personally, I don't think Goodell will let him back

[Sarah Ibarruri]

71. He'd better the hell not let him back in. nt

[dolphinsong285]

88. Agreed! Also, no mention of this on CNN as yet.

This link may or may not be Goodell's current email, but worth a try.
http://www.neutersickvick.com/nfl.html

[awoke_in_2003]

98. welcome to DU...

thanks for the link

[JeanGrey]

149. I doubt that VERY seriously. Vick had better find another

line of work. If any NFL team dared to even consider him the outcry would finish them. Talk about bad publicity, oh my god.

[TBF]

36. Legal documents re this matter -

For the "fans" amongst us who continue to "disbelieve" here are some of the legal documents that have been assembled on this case:

http://www.animallaw.info/pleadings/pbusfdvick.htm

Frankly I found the fine laughable and think they should have executed the asshole, but that's just me.

[MindPilot]

43. "Yes, your Honor, I chewed up Michael Vick's jockstap;

and I deeply regret that he was wearing it at the time."

Said with a smile by a pitbull in a birthday card.

[Faygo Kid]

44. Lousy piece of shit, horrible "human being"

The whole Vick family sucks. Sorry, but that's the truth. Awful bunch of cretins; the world would have been better off if none of them had been born.

[Triana]

48. I suggest that Vick be executed by hanging or drowning.

This man is a male Sarah Palin - a psychopath.

[TankLV]

51. They better not let this human piece of GARBAGE back into the NFL...!

That piece of GARBAGE should have to spend the rest of his LIFE doing charity community work.

That piece of GARBAGE is lucky he gets to go back to his gang banging lifestyle and spend the rest of his worthless life complaining about "how unfair he's been treated"...

[Frisbee]

56. Spending the rest of his life...

making minimum wage cleaning kennels at animal shelters, knowing that if he ever hurts another animal, it is life without parole from then on. That would be my condition for his release. :-)

[judesedit]

58. Sounds like Palin's kind of guy

[Sarah Ibarruri]

74. That's exactly it. If she weren't busy trying to get her surgically-altered face on TV all the time

She'd probably be running a dog-torturing ring like this @$$hole.

[JeanGrey]

150. Surgically altered? ROTFLMAO So now she's had

plastic surgery?

[scytherius]

59. I SO wanted to give him a chance but can't after reading this.

This is horrific and cruel. I rarely get sick seeing or reading anything but this made me ill. I just hope he vanishes and never makes a return to the NFL. I will certainly never watch a game he is in.

Again, this is unbelievable. This is horrible. To fucking hell with Michael Vick.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

75. He's a walking anus nt

[Strathos]

60. Throw him in a pit of crocodiles

I wouldn't lose any sleep.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

61. Vick, Peace and Phillips executed approximately six dogs by hanging and drowning.

What the @#$% is wrong with this @$$hole???? The @$$hole is making $13,000,000.00 a year and it's not enough for him? He has to also get his kicks torturing innocent creatures? Somebody needs to beat the @#$% out of him! My GOD!

[Myrina]

65. My Preferred Punishment for Vick:

... 50 yard line, halftime of the Super Bowl ... shoot him in the knees, douse him with water, electrocute him a lil, then hoist him up and sic about 10 of his dogs on his carcass.

On live international television - just in case any "Vick Wanna Be's" are watching.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

73. My preferred punishment for this @$$hole: Never play a sport again, have him do

community service for 10 years, make him pay millions to the Humane Society, and make sure his name is circulated at the top of a list of all torturers of innocent animals.

[Donnachaidh]

I'd be willing to see this on pay per view

If the proceeds went to the Humane Society. :evilgrin:

[Myrina]

111. Excellent idea!

:hi:

[AllyCat]

76. What a sad, sick, fearful man.

I have to wonder when someone who would do something this horrible would cross the line to hurting other people. What is his level of regard for life?

[Paladin]

80. Any Of You FEMA haters......

....still want to play the hypocrisy card of Sarah Palin's turkey-killing photo op, versus the actions of this psychotic sub-human? Yeah, I didn't think so.....

[Kalifornia.Kid]

81. I hope PRISON JUSTICE prevails -

May Vick get it slow... hard ... repeatedly ... and over and over again every day.

[PfcHammer]

84. Prolly, if Vick could have done the same to people and

gotten away with it, he would have.
Animals were the next best thing.
Luckily, he got caught. :puke:

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

114. His family created him? Regarding judging, pot-kettle.

[comrade snarky]

115. Hell yes I will judge him

He killed dogs through torture. For Fun.
Fuck you. I will judge that and you if you dare defend it, you twisted little piece of shit.

"MAYBE he can learn from his mistakes and become a better man"

Gosh yes, maybe he'll learn and grow so let's all be sure to be gentle with the multi millionaire animal torturer. You sanctimonious twit.

So how many Vick jerseys do you have fanboy?

[proud progressive]

133. NOW LISTEN-UP, DUMB-FUCK

I WAS NOT JUSTIFYING WHAT HE DID. IT WAS HORRIBLE! BUT THEN YOU ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO UNDERSTAND. SO, TELL ME, ALMIGHTY ONE, WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO? FEED HIM TO THE KKK? OH WAIT, YOU PROBABLY ARE THE KKK.
OH, BY THE WAY, COMRADE, NOT A SANCTIMONIOUS BONE IN MY BODY. NO, I JUST HAVE LEARNED THAT WE ALL FUCK-UP - EXCEPT FOR YOU, OF COURSE.

[comrade snarky]

138. Hit a nerve did I fanboy?

Quite the little keyboard warrior aren't you? I love when cowardly little pieces of crap like you say shit you never would have the balls to say to another person face to face. Fucking cowards.

Tell me again how humble you are dickhead. How you are sooooooo fucking perfect and I'm a terrible person for judging a man for TORTURING animals.

I've never fucked up by torturing a dozen animals have you? Maybe you have. Do you kill dogs for fun you pathetic fuck? Is that why you think we should forgive and forget?

And KKK!? Is that the best you can do you ridiculous little man? I'm not even going to alert on your pathetic ass and I hope no one else does either so your stupidity can stand as example to others.

On Edit:
Just saw your post below and I guess I'll just say goodbye now dickhead. I doubt you'll last long around here.

[comrade snarky]

141. Too late to edit now that I've cooled down.

Sorry Mods, I know I bent a couple of rules there. Feel free to delete if you think it's best.

I leave it up to your superior wisdom. :evilgrin:

[proud progressive]

137. alright, enough of my ranting. no more cussing

i am a life-long animal-owner and animal-lover. what vick did was unforgivable and he should be and is being punished. my reaction was, at first, just like everyone else here. but he is still a human being who, maybe, can learn. further destroying him will accomplish nothing except to satisfy your need for vengeance.
i'll leave it at that cause there is still a ton of hate out there.

[flvegan]

94. Part of me wouldn't mind seeing him play in the NFL again.

As a QB and the most hated man in football, he'd have an awfully BIG bullseye on him. I'm pretty certain that there are some very strong, large men on the defensive lines of the game that love dogs and would like nothing more than to crush him. Michael Vick with a permanent limp wouldn't bother me.

Problem is, he'd be back in the money, which is all he cares about. I don't want to see him have any success.

[backscatter712]

105. I can see some of the ref calls.

Late hit, unnecessary roughness, clipping, grabbing the facemask, using the helmet as a weapon, 70 yard penalty, disqualification, automatic first down, HIGH FIVE!!! :evilgrin:

[Odin2005]

97. What a sick, sick person.

And to think I used to like him back in his college football days... :puke:

[tomreedtoon]

99. He was a FOOTBALL player. Why are you surprised?

I wouldn't be surprised if half the players in the NFL weren't doing the same to dogs, or women or gay males for that reason. You pay to watch brutality, you shouldn't be surprised when your professional brutes do it in their spare time.

I think people are nicer to NBA players because they use handguns, not their bare hands, to do their killing.

[Odin2005]

101. WTF? Football is a SPORT. It's purpose is to channel agression into nondestructive activities

[tomreedtoon]

143. Sure worked for Mr. Vick, didn't it?

The "channelling aggression" theory was the biggest excuse used to defend these things. Try walking the streets of a city that won an NFL championship and try to avoid getting hit by a lit road flare or pummelled by some drunk fan. And try channelling THAT.

[DS1]

103. I wish some of you fucks would learn what you're talking about before

you spout your armchair psychologist horseshit in public


pathetic

[uppityperson]

104. Way.

Thank you for posting so succinctly what I would have posted less politely. Seriously. Thank you.

[LanternWaste]

106. Much like video games and movies, yes...?

"You pay to watch brutality, you shouldn't be surprised..."

Much like novels, video games, and movies which contain violence, yes...?

And, along that same line, one would imagine that a person who plays GTA VVI, watched Star Wars, or reads mystery novels would also turn out to be "brutes"...

[GCP]

125. Thank you for your deep thoughts on this matter

The way you've managed to generalize two whole groups of people into murderous animal-killing thugs - if there was a smiley for doing the kissing the fingers thing that chefs do - well - you're really earned it today.

If you didn't get the sarcasm there - you're even thicker than I originally thought.

[tomreedtoon]

142. Aw, you just don't know enough about life yet.

I can forgive you your naivete, even if the real world won't.

[mondo joe]

145. If it were the norm for football players to torture animals I wouldn't be surprised.

But it's not.

[JeanGrey]

151. OH please could we knock off this "all football players are

animals" shit? It is really stupid.

[Mike Daniels]

107. Even as more and more evidence piles up some DU'ers continue to feel Vick got a raw deal

Thank God those people are a minority of the general populace.

[smiley]

112. If this guy goes back to playing football

then they sure as hell better let Pete Rose back into baseball

[wordpix]

134. this guy is worse than any animal. What a sick, sick criminal he is

[4_TN_TITANS]

152. Major male dominance issues..

I say give him the same treatment he gave the animals.

[Dorian Gray]

156. All those poor poor dogs

The trained pit bulls whose entire life was filled with anger and hatred! And the poor untrained pets thrown into this mess. What an evil and vile man Vick is, and the same goes for his associates. I hope they rot in prison.