Judge rules Ohio homeless voters may list park benches as addresses

[SoCalNative]

Source: Columbus Dispatch

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A federal judge in Ohio has ruled that counties must allow homeless voters to list park benches and other locations that aren't buildings as their addresses.

U.S. District Judge Edmund Sargus also ruled that provisional ballots can't be invalidated because of poll worker errors.

Monday's ruling resolved the final two pieces of a settlement between the Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless and Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner.



Read more: http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/200...

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Of course the FReepers are going ballistic over this. One's request? :

"can we go back to the days when only property owners could vote? Or at the very least have some sort of an income threshold."

[Jansen]

1. Good idea...

How many people are really property "owners" in this country I wonder. If you are paying a mortgage then really, the bank is the land owner right?

[LisaLynne]

12. Excellent point.

And they are trying to call us "elitist". They never cease to amaze me with their small-minded hypocrisy.

[AlbertCat]

45. They never cease to amaze me with their small-minded hypocrisy.

Or their utter lack of knowledge about their own country's history or laws. Some patriots!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

67. A colleague of mine once explained to me...

that her steel-mill hometown in Ohio was ruined back in the early 1980s because of the union.

"All those uneducated people making waaay too much money!" was her complaint.

Now I remember a few of those steel mill towns; and I remember seeing the way the people who worked there lived. They had modest homes, vacation time, decent pensions, and the opportunity to save money for their children to attend college. I don't understand what is so wrong with "uneducated" people who work damned hard being able to live that way. I always thought that was what America was about.

[RamboLiberal]

98. Hear it all the time in Pittsburgh area which of course was strong union

and steel mills. Amazing how many people buy in to this crap. All we have is RW radio and the hosts spew this non-stop.

My dad, my grandfather, and most of my uncles and male cousins worked in the mills. All had modest homes, usually drove a used car, perhaps sent their kids to state colleges, and had a small vacation cottege or hunting camp.

Yeah, we sure lived large on those big hourly wage. Most of his life my dad worked 3 shifts changing to a new shift each week. Only great perk he got besides good health insurance and a pension IMHO was 3 then 4 weeks vacation, and twice he got 13 weeks vacation union negotiated. I still don't know how he worked 16 hour days many times for the extra money, and most holidays he worked as well for the same reason.

[amdezurik]

51. pssst....

what they really want is the male ONLY part...

[ACTION BASTARD]

78. Psst...psst

Male and white ONLY you mean.

[amdezurik]

85. yup, that's their agenda

[cemaphonic]

55. Not really (on the mortgage question - the idea in the OP is a good one)

People make jokes to this effect, but if you have a mortgage, you own the house and the land - the bank has a lien that says they can take it back from you if you stop paying the mortgage. If the banks truly owned the equity on the mortgage, they would be entitled to a proportional share of any profits on the sale for one thing.

[Shoelace]

2. wow, I know that's good news for voters, but bad news about homelessness

in this country because now I believe that the numbers of homelessness has grown substantially over the past 8 years. Darned if I can find any real, recent numbers though.
Heh, and you are probably spot on about Freepers going ballistic over that ruling.

[dissemination]

8. yes, good news for the homeless

[hamsterjill]

29. I'm sure they are going ballistic

By the homeless listing an address such as a park bench, that leaves yet another paper trail to show how very many people are homeless in this country.

The Freepers don't want to admit homelessness is a problem.

The fact that anyone in this country has to live on a park bench is a disgusting commentary, especially a commentary on the last eight, horrible years.

Things will improve under an Obama presidency because at least he won't spend his term refusing to admit that homelessness exists - which Bush has done.

[Vidar]

59. I've taken in six homeless people over the last year--five of them "middle

class." I live in a town with a year-round population of 40,000 in Northern Michigan. The Catholic Church, which does a fairly good job of housing & feeding them, calculates our homeless population at between 1400 & 1800.

[heliarc]

3. Right on!

Homeless people deserve to vote too... and now more than ever since we've had 300,000 foreclosures in a month.

[peace13]

4. Thanks for that. n/t

[Solly Mack]

5. K&R

[Orrex]

6. Ive known a shitload of Conservatives..

who've been all in favor of poll taxes and literacy tests. I'm sure that's a great idea, and I'm sure that it wouldn't be universally abused by Right-minded citizens to disenfranchise minorities or Liberals.

"How many suds in a bar of soap?"

[SoCalNative]

9. Why do conservatives hate the Constitution?

are they not aware that the 24th amendment specifically forbids voter disqualification on the basis of poll taxes?

[Orrex]

16. They love the 24th because, to them, a "voter" is a white male Christian landowner

[Politicalboi]

15. Well they should have

Literacy test but only for the one on top of the ticket. Bush never could have passed. Same as MaGoo he couldn't pass one either.

[Chulanowa]

33. I'm equally sure htye couldn't afford the taxes or pass the tests

Conservatives generally only think they're smart and well-off. Usually they're dumb and poor.

[kestrel91316]

7. Of course they only want property owners to vote. Heck, a lot of them

quite openly advocate a return to "one family, one vote". It's Dominionist doctrine.

[stillcool]

11. and they don't mean mortgage holders..

this is my favorite voting law...

1890 Mississippi adopts a literacy test to keep African Americans from voting. Numerous other states—not just in the south—also establish literacy tests. However, the tests also exclude many whites from voting. To get around this, states add grandfather clauses that allow those who could vote before 1870, or their descendants, to vote regardless of literacy or tax qualifications.

[yardwork]

23. Things went to hell when women got the right to vote, according to freepers.

[zelta gaisma]

69. only WHITE MALE PROTESTANT PROPERTY OWNERS can vote in the republican world dontcha know :P

[Xipe Totec]

10. So the Bench rules in favor of the bench

Justice can be poetic sometimes.

[Kolesar]

28. Very clever. And we are all very happy

[last1standing]

13. Freepers have a very limited view on personhood.

If you don't make enough money, you're not a person.

If you don't own property, you're not a person.

If you don't live in the "right" area, you're not a person.

If you don't have the right parents, you're not a person.

If you don't share the same views, you're not a person.

To these hateful, inbred bigots, anyone or anything they disagree with is not a person and therefore subject to humiliation, incarceration, mutilation and death. I wish it was as easy as educating these ignorant bastards but it's not. They have serious societal flaws and will never be fit for mingling with the general populace.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. if you dont fuck the right gender you are not a person

[last1standing]

86. Don't I know it.

I've been fucking the wrong people all my life according to them.

[Roy]

38. Sad part is their standards leaves out more of them than others n/t

[Auggie]

14. Ballistic is an understatement

[BrklynLiberal]

17. I would like to see those FReepers put into a situation like the movie

"Trading Places". I wonder how their view of the world would change...

I know it is fantasy, but it would be so satisfying. They are such arrogant, hypocritical assholes.

[ann_american2004]

53. UNFORTUNATELY most of them, after suffering something like that,

would just say "Thank God that's over." and promptly tell the next homeless person they see to "Get a job". They really do not care about other people. Really.

[kickysnana]

18. What? He left out animals. They should have rights too!

[Joe Chi Minh]

22. Dead right. But, unfortunately, they wouldn't understand the issues.

[Hydra]

30. The animals would understand the issues better than the Freepers

My dog understands environmental concerns, property rights and freedom of association far better than that voting block.

[Joe Chi Minh]

34. You have some very telling points there.

[trashcanistanista]

20. Wow!!!!! This is what happens

when Democrats are in charge. I am so impressed with Ohio and their judges right now. Show them how it's done, Judge Sargus1!!!!

[Joe Chi Minh]

21. Every now and then you come across a person who is special, even to our limited vision.

When it's a judge that is concerned, he is very special. Edmund Sargus is a name to remember.

[Waiting For Everyman]

24. That's just doggone cool!

I'm liking Ohio judges. I've read about several others who have thrown out foreclosres on grounds of unconscionability and being unable to produce the underlying notes. They're showing other judges paths in the right direction. (Along with that sheriff in Chicago who refused to carry out foreclosure evictions on renters.)

[Kalifornia.Kid]

25. Wow - a Howard Zinn moment

"One percent of the nation owns a third of the wealth. The rest of the wealth is distributed in such a way as to turn those in the 99 percent against one another: small property owners against the propertyless, black against white, native-born against foreign-born, intellectuals and professionals against the uneducated and the unskilled. These groups have resented one another and warred against one another with such vehemence and violence as to obscure their common position as sharers of leftovers in a very wealthy country."

[Kolesar]

27. Zinn overstates--I am not at war with anybody with "vehemence and violence" eom

[eagertolearn]

26. This is one of the things my dear homeless brother was always fighting

for in Santa Barbara before he died from alcoholism at age 44 while living on the streets. He spent his life fighting for the rights of the homeless until he hit the downward fall of alcoholism. He would have loved this ruling. I think one time he got his photo in the paper while climbing a pole protesting the homeless rights to vote while Regan was visiting the area.

[Hydra]

31. He probably smiles from above

And hopefully, he got a good home up there.

It's good to remember the heroes.

[bobbolink]

74. If you don't mind my asking... What was your brother's name?

I'd like to remember him.

There should be a memorial to people like him.



Thank you for telling his story!

[goforit]

32. Wow!! This is what voting is all about!!!

[jennied]

35. That's awesome!!!!

[JimDandy]

36. I thought this issue was already resolved in favor of the homeless a few years back

in another case in federal court.

[Posteritatis]

40. I'm assuming conservatives and "libertarians" relentlessly challenge this sort of thing (nt)

[creeksneakers2]

66. I heard of it before too

From outraged wingnuts years ago.

[truthisfreedom]

37. Amen. Democracy 1, rethugs 0.

I love it.

[defendandprotect]

39. We have to rent addresses for the homeless, somehow . . .

[Lady-Damai]

41. Wow.......n/t

[Hekate]

42. When I did voter reg in '04 my instructions for homeless addresses were "crossroads"...

That seemed to be the standard in Santa Barbara County--Post Office boxes were not okay, but if a person had no dwelling they were still citizens and giving the closest intersection where they slept was okay. That seemed fine to me then, and does now.

Hekate

[madmom]

43. Ok how about a certain level of intelligence? That would leave all of them out!

[struggle4progress]

77. I've met at least three homeless people with PhDs. I also met a homeless

high school kid who had (on his own iniative!) decided he wanted to become a researcher and arranged to spend his summer vacation working in a university lab

The homeless are a cross-section of this country: some are very bright people brought low by mental illness or physical mishap; some are ordinary people whose lives collapsed after bad relationships; some are misplaced by natural disasters. Generalizations have limited value

[madmom]

94. I was not talking about the homeless,I was talking about the republicans!

[dolo amber]

44. Well...yay, but also

I was unaware park benches had addresses.

[bluesmail]

46. Way cool.

[whistle]

47. This is a positive trend because now we'll know just who is homeless

...and who is not. Any guesses as to how many homeless people there really are in the U.S.?

I'll say 3% or 10,000,000 which ever is the larger number. This can be verified in the next census.

[SoxFan]

48. Good for the court

In the city where I live, the homeless are registered at 199 Manchester St., which is the address of the local soup kitchen and shelter. Everybody, D and R, seems ok with the practice.

[pipi_k]

49. "Income threshold"?????

How about an IQ threshold instead?


That should invalidate about 2/3 of THEM.


goddamned fools

[liberal N proud]

50. I actually had a fundie try to tell me that homeless shouldn't vote

She said they should not be allowed to vote. I tore into her like nothing.

Glad to hear this ruling

[Danieljay]

52. I live in a country where the homeless can vote. Thank you, God. n/t

[mcollier]

54. YES! YES WE CAN AMERICA!

I feel the melting pot boiling FINALLY!

I Love IT!

[goletian]

56. how about an iq requirement, then conservatives would be left out forever. - nt

[spelldmilk]

57. Holy Cow! Yeeeeeeee! n/t

[TBF]

58. Next perhaps we'll actually think about homelessness and poverty

as political issues. If we feel very brave maybe we'll even look at causes of homelessness and poverty (besides people being stupid and lazy... ), and figure out a way that they can live on something other than a park bench. Baby steps I guess...

[Forkboy]

60. I've been waiting for that for 30 years.

Thankfully I wasn't holding my breath, and I wont this time either.

This is still good news though, and I'll take it.

[bobbolink]

80. There's only one problem...

How many deaths in a "baby step"?

No asparagas to you, but I get so very tired of that damned phrase when applied to poverty!

It sure didn't fly during the Civil Rights movement, or the women's movement and shouldn't apply now with poverty!

[TBF]

99. I have to use that phrase here in Texas a lot in order to keep my sanity.

Some would say I've failed anyway

You are correct of course.

[RedCloud]

61. Let those who have suffered most vote.

Only a monster with no heart can deny such a person.

[bobbolink]

81. Thank you! Could you please run for office on that platform??!

[Window]

62. Wow! n/t

[myrna minx]

63. K&R n/t

[dana_b]

64. now this is what we really work for

wow... I hope this holds up.

[bobbolink]

84. It's a good ruling, but I hope that what we really work for is HOMES FOR ALL!

Wouldn't that solve the issue in a much better way?

[Ms. Toad]

65. It may be a hollow victory

Voters must present identification to vote - either government identification (regardless of address) or a current utility bill or bank statement (with your current address). I suspect very few homeless individuals are likely to have such identification - certainly not the alternative identification that matches a park bench address.

[bobbolink]

82. You're absolutely right, and I'd like to know how the judge would handle that.

The real answer, of course, is for EVERYONE to have a home!

In the richest country in the world, that shouldn't be a big deal, now, should it?

[Occulus]

100. Untrue n/t

[Ms. Toad]

102. A bit more explanation, please?

If you're talking about Voter ID requirements:

See: http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/voterInformati...

Election Day Voting

* A current and valid photo identification(i.e. Ohio driver’s license, state ID card, government ID). Photo identification must show name and address (does not need to be current address for driver’s license or state id card); or
* A military identification that shows the voter’s name. (Does not need to show address); or
* A copy of a current utility bill (including cell phone bill), bank statement, paycheck, government check, or other government document that shows the voter’s name and current address (including from a public college or university).

Voting ID requirements are different from registration requirements. Just because the judge ruled that the registration form may list a park bench or other non-building address does not mean the requirement state voter ID law is waived on election day - unfortunately voter ID requirements (even some very restrictive ones) have been upheld - and Ohio's is not particularly restrictive.

Those voters registered with a park bench as their address may not be able to vote on election day, unless they have some form of valid photo identification (which may be an out of date address for government issued photo IDs) or a military ID even if it doesn't have an address or a photo. It is unlikely that voters without some form of photo or government ID will be able to provide a current address match required for ID in the third category - since most of those entities wouldn't accept - and the USMail wouldn't deliver to a park bench address.

If that's not it, you'll have to be a bit more explicit as to what you believe I said that is untrue.

[ZeitGuy]

68. If you are homeless, you are no less an American

My God, if we cannot empower the least powerful among us at least this much -- to ensure their right to vote -- then America is nothing but a mere memory of once-sacred higher ideals.

[ProudLittleLiberal]

70. a fair ruling

it's high time everyone in this country counted

[The Doctor.]

71. That freeper has a great idea.

Only people that make as much or more than 'Joe the Plumber' at $250,000/year can vote.

Then they can all stay home.

[TheDebbieDee]

72. Those DAMNED activist judges have struck yet again!

Good going, your honor!

[lonestarnot]

73. Woohoo! Democracy! I love it!

[bobbolink]

75. Thank you, judge.

When it's all you have, it's all you have, and there's nothing more you can do.

The real issue is that housing is a right... but this is an important step.

Thank you, judge.

[femrap]

76. What a smart judge!!!

And so glad to have Jennifer Brunner as our SoS.

[Matilda]

79. A very enlightened judge.

I checked to find out what the laws are in Australia, and found that homeless people can vote, but
more than half the people in a 2004 survey of the homeless didn't bother, for various reasons:

"Some impediments that prevent them from engaging include: a too narrow understanding of what constitutes a ‘current address’ under the Act, a lack of understanding of itinerant voting and silent enrolment provisions, lack of transportation to, or location of, polling stations, a lack of awareness that it is permissible, in certain circumstances, for third parties to assist in the process of enrolment and voting, fear of becoming visible to government agencies (other than the AEC) on publicised lists, complexity of enrolment process and forms, overall lack of faith in the political system, fear of fines for failing to enrol or vote when eligible, etc."

http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/Strategy_R...

I also found that prisoners who are serving sentences of less than three years can vote - personally,
I think any adult of sound mind should be able to vote. Prisoners, the homeless, and others on the
margins of society have just as much right as anyone else for a say in who governs them, and how.

Voting is our right, not a privilege to be granted or withheld on the whim of any other person or
entity.

[bobbolink]

83. Are there many homeless people in Australia?

I would have hoped that a more enlightened country like Australia wouldn't have homelessness.

[Matilda]

90. Unfortunately, yes.

The 2006 Census figures showed 105,000 people were homeless, with about 16,000 sleeping in the
streets. Given our total population of about 21.5 million, I guess it's not extraordinary, but
Australia isn't a poor country, and there's no excuse. Most of the burden of care falls on
charities, with very little input from governments, state or federal.

[bobbolink]

97. That is very distressing!

And we know that "charity" doesn't provide housing.

Is there any strong movement to rectify this inexcusable mess?

[Matilda]

103. There are movements working for change.

Just lately, a group has called for governments to provide housing as a first step to helping the
homeless - I believe it's copying an initiative that began in New York, and has proved successful.
The group says that providing housing is actually much cheaper than the ongoing costs of police
and medical intervention often needed for those living on the streets, and has proved to be a
valuable first step in helping at least some of the homeless get a little order into their lives.

The initiative began following the death of a well-known itinerant on the streets of Kings Cross
in Sydney - the group estimated that ongoing care for this man over the years had cost the state
$2,000,000, and in the end did nothing to prevent his early death, whereas supplying shelter would
have cost less and probably been more beneficial.

The group has managed to get a lot of publicity - when you start talking dollars, people understand.

[dugaresa]

87. no one should be denied their right to vote

as for the freepers, they might deny themselves the right to vote by putting forth an income threshold

[superconnected]

88. This makes my day!

only a republican would have a problem with this.

[Incitatus]

89. WTF? Another damn liberal judge

protecting people's Constitutional rights.

What's their problem?

[harun]

91. I can hear freepers exploding over this, and I love it (n/t)

[clyrc]

92. Good!

I like this decision!

[sohndrsmith]

93. I don't care where he is or who he is. but I LOVE this judge...

the reality - right in front of our faces - is that Obama IS American, McCain/Palin... are not. America is diverse. America is varied. America is not homogeneous, monolithic, unilateral or supercilious. America is BETTER than what the GOP has tried to sell us. Obama is the essence of what this country is and what it's greatness stands for.

I have never been so disgusted with the ideology of a political party in my life as I am now with the GOP. They have sold their souls to big business, big profit, big connections, and (the worst) big pretense...

[whathehell]

95. How about an I.Q. test?...

That should lower the Repuke vote..LOL.

[Zuiderelle]

96. Or the days when only white male property owners could vote. That would please some people.

This is a great decision. I applaud the judge.

[ohio2007]

101. "feeling alone, the armies of the road.....

Aqualung - Jethro Tull


"Sitting on a park bench"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sng284pXeZo