US faces the F-16s it supplied Pakistan

[cosmicone]

Source: Times of India

WASHINGTON: The United States is suddenly faced with the uncomfortable scenario of confronting the very same weapons and military hardware, including F-16 fighter jets, it has armed Pakistan with for decades.

The unsavoury prospect of having to take a crack at the its one-time ally has surfaced most starkly in the skies over the Afghan-Pakistan border this weekend after the Pakistan Air Force deployed its US-supplied F-16s to challenge the violation of its airspace by US drones, and in one case, an airborne assault that landed US Navy Seals inside Pakistani territory.

The turnaround of Pakistan from an ally to a potential enemy has alarmed lawmakers, some of whom are now questioning the continued supply of arms to Islamabad. On Tuesday, a Democrat-controlled House Foreign Relations panel has scheduled a hearing whose snarky title -- ''Defeating al-Qaida's Air Force: Pakistan's F-16 Program in the Fight Against Terrorism'' == betrays the unease over the Bush Administration’s relentless arming of Pakistan. Al-Qaida has no known air force.

Some lawmakers and analysts have long questioned the need for Washington to arm Pakistan with sophisticated fighter jets to counter Al-Qaida’s and Taliban’s diffused militants, many of whom are in Pakistan’s towns and cities and are patronised by Islamabad’s intelligence agencies. ''The panel will look at how the F-16 program fits into the broader US strategy in the fight against terrorism as well as into the overall US relationship with Pakistan,'' a notification from the sub-committee read.

Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US_faces_the_F-16s_it_supplied_Pakistan/articleshow/3482718.cms

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Another set of chickens coming home to roost.

No way, no how, no more aid to Pakistan.

[Aviation Pro]

1. Not concerned....

...I've seen how the Pak and Indian AF operates (India flies Sukhois), trust me, those F-16s would be slag in the first five minutes of an air war.

[samsingh]

13. i beg to differ on India

their airforce has pros that are effective and welltrained.

they have won wargames against US and Russian pilots.

[Aviation Pro]

14. I just got back from India....

...trust me, no contest.

[depakid]

18. The Cope India exercises indicated otherwise

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000976.html

[Psephos]

19. not so hard to do with a 3 to 1 advantage

from the article:

"Now, granted, the Indians had the Americans outnumbered: usually 10 or 12 to 4, during the Cope India air combat exercise held last February around the Gwalior Air Force Station."

[depakid]

21. Which is why America built a few F-22's

and bans exports even to its closest allies- even to those posing the remotest of threats, like Australia.

F-22's can survive outnumbered and complete most missions. Older, 4th generation aircraft cannot.

It would have been wise to have built more of them- but then, when has the Bush administration done anything wise?

They can't even manage to get a new tanker built!

[Psephos]

22. I hear you on that tanker debacle

and as an aviation buff I hear you on those F22s, too.

[depakid]

23. Curiously, some of these arguments go way back to guys like Billy Mitchell

who was court marshalled for his advocacy of airpower.

[-..__...]

2. I wonder if the contractors put an encrypted back door in...

so that the fighters can be shut down/rendered useless with the flip of a switch by us?

IIRC, the French did that during the first Gulf war with Mirage fighters that they had sold to Iraq .

[Trajan]

9. I have always assumed fighter jets sold to other countries ...

Have the hidden kill switch ....

Hopefully, they do ....

[pattmarty]

3. I have been wondering for years when and where........

....this might take place. It's just going to get worse not better as we supply arms to half the world or more.

[nightrain]

6. truly. The US reaps what it sows... greed triumphs intelligent actions.

[bluesmail]

4. Greed must block intellect.

[High Plains]

5. The US aggression inside Pakistan is not very smart.

Why am I not surprised?

[dipsydoodle]

7. How to screw yourself - Lesson two.

Lesson one of course was suppyling Agfhanistan with weapons to use a against the Russians.

Never mind - the defence industry contractors have made their money. No sarcasm implied or intended.

[DS1]

8. Why do you think the F-22 was so important?

It would fuck up large numbers of F16s quite handily, especially the dumbed down versions we ship overseas.

[ohio2007]

10. Pakistan Airforce vs drones ? maybe but no air to air

I doubt F-16's will be sent in to shoot down the drones.
imo,
I doubt the Pakistan airforce will not target, tangle or even paint anything comming out of Afghanistan without dealing with the ultimate embarrasment. NATO jets use pakistan airfields as it is and it isn't the biggest issue in Pakitsan by far.


http://www.france24.com/en/20080913-islamic-militants-briefly-seize-govt-building-nw-pakistan

It isn't even the biggest issue facing the Pak Airforce

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cd7_1218543233

[boomerbust]

11. Makes sense

We are still fighting against weapons supplied by Trickle Down to his Little Freedom Fighter in Afghanistan

[Democrats_win]

12. Well, when they say country first, did anyone bother to ask which country?

[AlphaCentauri]

15. "Al-Qaida has no known air force"

Don't you get it the objective is not Alkaida

[libodem]

16. Is there anyone with whom we won't be at war?

Let's see if we take on the Soviets and Pakistan and Iran those 27 permanent bases we built in Iraq will come in handy. Most of Iraq's war torn cities don't have running water, sewage systems, or reliable electricity, but their government has millions in oil revenue and we have our permanent military bases and a big fat embassy. We have a spot from which to launch WW111. Oh, goodie.

[Kolesar]

17. This reads like "Indian propaganda" ... eom

[Posteritatis]

25. Pakistan explicitly announced it would retaliate against border violations the other day (nt)

[Kolesar]

27. SO?

[The Stranger]

20. No way, no how, no more aid to NEOCONS.

The Neocons are going to recycle allies as enemies (case in point: Iraq, Iran, Russia). Demonizing Pakistan now is only doing the Neocons' dirty work for them.

[MagickMuffin]

24. Well I've only been stating the obvious for decades

Someday we will be at war with the countries we've been supplying arms to, just a matter of time.

Pakistan, Columbia, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia. The list goes on and on.

The people in power are idiots. And the Military Industrial Complex plays them like the fools they are.

[bdab1973]

26. This is not a big deal, and here's why

The Pakistani Air Force have about 50 dumbed-down F-16A and B-model fighters. They are nowhere near as sophisticated as the F-16C Block 50 fighters the USAF uses, and we've got over 1,000 of them. Not to mention several hundred F-15Cs and the F-22. That's just our Air Force...the Navy's got the F/A-18C and the next generation Super Hornet F/A-18E and F-models. Their aircraft would likely get shot down before they even knew the US was there. And in the unlikely event a US and Paki fighter get entangled in a close-range knife fight, I'm guessing the US pilot will win, considering they fly about 3-4 times as many hours than the Paki pilots.

THEN, there's a matter of doctrine and tactics. The Pakistani Air Force likely operates like many other air forces in the region...basically using unsophisticated tactics, and without the benefit of coordinated operations with other squadrons and units. Sure, the US sells arms to other nations, but unless that nation is considered a close ally, they aren't going to get the same product the US forces would get. It might look like an F-16, but it's just not quite the same as far as capabilities. We're running into issues with that in Iraq...the Iraqis want to buy some US-made systems, but we can't release all of that stuff for sale until it's deemed "exportable".