Protesters march for immigrant rights

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: Denver Post

A group calling itself "World Can't Wait" is leading a march protesting harsh measures taken against illegal immigrants, with about 300-400 marchers involved and more expected.

The march began shortly after 9 a.m. at Rude Park, 2855 W. Howard Place, and will go to Lincoln Park, West 12th Avenue and Mariposa Street, according to march oganizers.

"This is Germany in the 1930's all over again!" according to a news release. "The past seven years of the Bush regime have seen a dramatic escalation of attacks on immigrants on many fronts."

But marchers say they don't believe there would be significant changes under a Barack Obama or John McCain administration.



Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_10325314

[thunder rising]

1. Perhaps under Obama, South America can heal itself. Maybe if we quit driving them up

here with death squads in the south, they would stay home.

[David__77]

2. This is a crucial struggle.

I agree with World Can't Wait.

[Lance_Boyle]

3. bad headline - immigrants have rights not afforded to illegal aliens

Denver Post would do well to check its terminology.

[LanternWaste]

4. As would we...

"Denver Post would do well to check its terminology."

As would we, as I believe 'Undocumented Worker' is the correct term.

[Lex1775]

5. Not according to the Federal Government

U.S Citizenship and Immigration Service
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb9...

U.S State Department
http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/glossary/glossary_136...

And from everyone's favorite resource site, Wikipedia:
"The term illegal alien commonly refers to a foreign national who resides in another country unlawfully, either by entering that country at a place other than a designated port-of-entry or as result of the expiration of a non-immigrant visa."

[pegleg]

6. Undocumented illegal alien.

[LanternWaste]

7. It then begs the question

It then begs the question-- what is the precise and relevant difference between Undocumented Worker and Illegal Alien?


Ahhh, yes-- Wikipedia. My favorite quote about the site:
"Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information."

[Odin2005]

9. "undocumented worker" is a BS ephemism.

It's purpose is to conceal the fact that those individuals are not here legally.

[LanternWaste]

10. Then get ready for a lot of BS ephemisms(?) from me

Then get ready for a lot of "BS ephemisms(?)" from me, as that's the term I use and will continue to do so...

[joeglow3]

14. Why is that term more accurate?

simple question.

[AlphaCentauri]

18. Because when an individual commits a traffic violation, he doesn't become an illegal citizen

committing an illegal act does not make you an illegal human

[Odin2005]

23. Irrelevant semantics.

Calling someone an illegal immigrant simply means the person is a non-citizen who is here illegally, it's not calling them an "illegal human." That is why I don't like the PC euphemism "undocumented worker," it covers up that fact that they are not here legally.

[AlphaCentauri]

27. Implying that immigrants are not humans, makes no sense at all

[vincent_vega_lives]

30. Straw man argument

Illegal immigrant does not equal illegal human, and no one AFAIK is making that augment.

The immigration laws in this country suck, but that does not excuse the chaos of of having thousands of undocumented people crossing the border daily.

[AlphaCentauri]

32. "Illegal immigrant does not equal illegal human" why not?

is Illegal Citizen the correct term for someone that commit an illegal act?

[vincent_vega_lives]

33. There is no such thing

as an illegal citizen. You either are or aren't one.

An alien is a non-citizen of the nation they are in. You are either a legal alien or illegal alien.

If you are an alien and are in a country with out permission, you are there illegally and subject to deportation. This is the case with EVERY soverign nation.

[AlphaCentauri]

35. If you commit an illegal act you are an illegal

if you are an alien an commit an illegal act you are call illegal then if you are a citizen and commit an illegal act you should be call illegal.

Illegal humans do not exist.

[Odin2005]

36. Your linguistic contortions are ridiculous.

You should join FOX Snooze, they would appreciate your spinning ability!

[AlphaCentauri]

40. That's a good option, I would present to them your cultural background

See Post #31

[Synicus Maximus]

58. If you commit an illegal act you are a criminal

Not an illegal citizen. Therefore an non citizen who commits an illegal act such as entering the country illegally would be a criminal alien.

[Odin2005]

38. The term does not imply that they are "illegal humans."

The term means they are IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE NOT HERE LEGALLY! How hard is that for you to understand?

[AlphaCentauri]

39. OK , immigrants are humans can you agree on that?

[Odin2005]

41. Yes. n/t.

[The Croquist]

43. Perhaps we should be politically correct and call them...

Alleged Illegal Immigrants.

[joeglow3]

13. Undocumented Worked is a loaded term

It implies that EVERY illegal immigrant is here to work hard. While a large percentage ARE, not all are. All undocumented workers are illegal immigrants. Not all illegal immigrants are undocumented workers.

[LanternWaste]

24. Odd thing about the term 'illegals..."

Odd thing about the term 'illegals..."


If I walk into my office and say that I saw hundreds of illegals on the highway on the way to work, everyone would automatically assume I was referring to the immigration issue, when I could just as easily be referring to the hundreds of speeders I saw on the highway.

Odd that people would jump to that conclusion. No-- not really that odd. It's been co-opted as pejorative term we've used to dehumanize people because they were born on the "wrong" side of some imaginary red and black lines.


Talk about loaded terms.

[vincent_vega_lives]

34. Not quite

Speeders is a poor analogy, as the act of speeding does not make one an illegal driver.

Driving without a license or with a suspended license would be more appropriate as "illegal drivers".

[LanternWaste]

37. All justifications aside

All justifications aside, nn illegal act is an illegal act. If one individual gets called an illegal for an illegal act, it seems only just that all individuals get called an illegal due to an illegal act.

I'm afraid that if I saw a hundred illegal speeders on my way to work and told my co-workers that I had just seen a hundred illegals, we all know what the inference would be.

[Dr. Strange]

47. Speeding is different from being an alien.

The term "illegal alien" distinguishes them from "legal alien." We don't use a term like "illegal speeder" because there are no "legal speeders." Instead, you would tell your co-worker that you had just seen a hundred speeders.

[silverojo]

16. The ones on welfare don't work

So that term doesn't really apply to them, now, does it?

[High Plains]

45. Which ones on welfare?

Got any stats on the number of illegal aliens getting welfare? I didn't think so.

[Odin2005]

8. "This is Germany in the 1930's all over again!" Bullshit!!!

Wanting the immigration laws enforced makes one a Nazi now? The rule of law is fascist, now? Last I knew there are still fascists in the White House flouting the rule of law.

[NorthernSpy]

11. Yeah. Apparently, just wanting the entry and employment laws enforced makes us Hitler...

I'm so sick of that BS.

[Odin2005]

12. It's the kneejerk "the US is evil" meme common among our fellow left-wingers.

The "immigrant rights" people turned me off permanently when they had that enormous protest some time ago and there were big Mexican flags. Yeah, nice way of showing how much you like your adopted country.

[silverojo]

17. And don't forget Mayfield, California

Where the illegals took down the U.S. flag at the post office, and replaced it with a Mexican one.

Yeah, they really love our country. NOT!

[RebelOne]

26. That flag incident really ticked me off.

What gave them the right to do that?

[LanternWaste]

28. Love of one flag precludes...

Love of one flag precludes and denies love of another flag?

[High Plains]

46. Remember Mayfield!!!!

The new battle cry of the American xenophobe.

By the way, your screen name looks suspiciously Spanish-influenced.

[AlphaCentauri]

19. Did you guy missed the Obama Berlin speech?

I was terrified by all those beautiful US flags waving in German soil, did any German cry for it?

[Odin2005]

22. Different context.

Those people weren't Americans that emigrated to Germany.

[AlphaCentauri]

31. really?

U.S. CITIZENS REQUEST A "CHANGE" IN THE OBAMA EVENT AT THE VICTORY COLUMN IN BERLIN
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/35001

LONDON - Barack Obama's campaign has received roughly 10 times more money from declared U.S. donors living in Germany, France and Britain than his Republican rival, reflecting his popularity in Europe as he makes his first tour of the continent as the presumed Democratic nominee.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25844777 /

U.S. Citizens Abroad Aid U.S. Soldiers in Europe and Iraq to Apply for Release from U.S. Military On Grounds of Conscience
http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0222-15.htm

[WriteDown]

52. Ever seen Germany's current immigration laws or enforcement..

in action. A little ironic. To say it is strict is a major understatement.

[AlphaCentauri]

20. just add the numbers, 1 million death Iraqis, FISA, raids, wars....

brown shirts and then you'll have it Germany 1930

[treestar]

56. It's because it is the idea of a group of people not entitled to

justice. Immigration laws are only immigration laws. If violating them means you have no rights, then you've created a group of people with no rights. And allowing the government to have that power over any group of people is dangerous, as the founders knew, unlimited power is corrupting. Next they'll want it against others.

And shameful as it is, this is not a fault solely of the republicans. Clinton signed into law the immigration law of 1996, giving the Executive branch unlimited powers over aliens in some circumstances. Saying that there was to be no judicial review over certain decisions of the Executive. It is that unlimited power over other human beings that is dangerous.

Like those in Gitmo, though they may be "terrorists," they are human, and if accused, should have some semblance of a chance to speak up for themselves. If we don't give them that, we are no better than the nazis. They were the ones who craeted the idea there was a certain group of people who had no rights under the law. That's what we are emulating by claiming there is any human being anywhere accused of anything who has no rights under the law.

Immigrants are a reality; those who are illegal are only so because of our laws, which are arbitrary and not self enforcing. If we can't enforce them, we should change them to something we can reasonably enforce.

[silverojo]

15. "Harsh measures" against illegals?

What, like letting them flood in here by the thousands, pandering to them by putting up signs in Spanish, and giving them welfare for reproducing indiscriminately? The "harshest" thing we do to them is send them back to where they came from...but they just come right back here anyway, so what's the big deal?

If they want harsh, try being black during the days of segregation. Or try being a Democrat protester around a group of policemen. Now THAT'S something that will get your face smashed into the ground.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

21. Original Illegal/Undocumented Sea Pirates.

1492. As children we were taught to memorize this year with pride and joy as the year people began living full and imaginative lives on the continent of North America. Actually, people had been living full and imaginative lives on the continent of North America for hundreds of years before that. 1492 was simply the year sea pirates began to rob, cheat, and kill them.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions

[Odin2005]

25. Yawn, there that "US is Evil" meme again...

What relevance does the brutal history of the European settlement of the Americas have to do with illegal immigration?

[asteroid2003QQ47]

42. That you protesteth a bit too much...

suggests that the irony is NOT lost on you!

----------------------------------------------------

YES WE CAN!!!
(Mantra of the Sea Pirates)

[EFerrari]

44. Do you really not know or is that a rhetorical question? n/t

[asteroid2003QQ47]

49. It would seem we have our answer.

"The right word might be effective, but no word was ever as effective as a rightly timed pause."
--Mark Twain

[treestar]

57. It points out that the US is made of immigrants

And always will be. Making scapegoats of immigrants is low for this country.

Immigration and emigration and natural and have always occurred. It should be worked with, rather than the way we have made arbitrary laws we can't enforce and then get all offended that some pay no attention to them.

No one pays attention to unenforced laws. This includes US citizens and legal aliens.

Would you even pay your taxes if you knew that the government was unlikely to discover you?

I never see Lou Dobbs or the rest going on about US citizens who work under the table, so as not to pay taxes. yet they are just as guilty of a simliar thing.

[vincent_vega_lives]

29. North and South America

You think they spoke Spanish there prior to 1492? Also Canada, Australia, New Zealand and every Caribbean Nation too.

[UndertheOcean]

53. Bingo !

[Zavulon]

48. Misleading reporting of non-existent "rights."

These "immigrants" do not have the right to have enforcement of immigration law ignored just for their convenience. I hope ICE swings by and deports any of the marchers who aren't here legally.

Oh, and the Germany of the 1930's is absolute bullshit. Actually, IMO, the Bush regime isn't doing nearly enough about illegals, largely because the idiot Bush picked the equally stupid Chertoff for the job.

I want more raids, not less. Who the fuck are these people to come here illegally and demand the so-called "right" of not being arrested?

Fuck them. ICE, go get 'em.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

50. If I thought you were serious, Light One,...

I'd ask on what date did the "Zavulon" family first arrive in "America?"

----------------------------------------
Vampire, Kostya's father: Why did you bring him?
Kostya: He became like us.
Vampire, Kostya's father: No, Kostya. He's a Light one. And Light ones only drink blood in one situation... when they're hunting those like us.

[Zavulon]

51. Actually,

my parents arrived legally and spent no time whatsoever prancing around demanding non-existent "rights," they came back when there were no government freebies for immigrants (even the legal ones), and I am quite serious. Nice to meet someone who's seen the movie, though.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

55. That "my parents arrived legally" bespeaks volumes, Zavulon.

On the immigration timeline they arrived well after the plunderers had established the
"legal system" that you hold dear. Evidently, out of that "legal" system grew your strong literal belief in "Might Is Right" with total disregard of moral "right." How well that philosophy works out for you in the long run remains to be seen but it would not hurt to keep in mind that all who dance must one day pay the fiddler.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in a society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
--Fredric Bastiat, "The Law"-1846

[JonQ]

54. Exactly

"immigrant rights" is a misnomer. We're talking about illegal immigrants, the whole "undocumented" thing is BS.

Kind of like referring to drug dealers as undocumented entrepreneurs.

And nazi germany? Come on. There's a big difference between saying it would be nice if maybe people would come to this country legally, and saying that everyone who doesn't belong to the "correct" race must die.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

59. Can't complain much about Godwin hyperbole when you compare illegal immigration to drug dealing. -nt