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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:11 AM
Original message
US warships to dock in Georgia's flashpoint port
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 06:44 AM by inanna
Source: Reuters

TBILISI, Aug 26 (Reuters) - Two U.S. warships will deliver humanitarian supplies on Wednesday to the Georgian Black Sea port of Poti where Russian troops have been mounting patrols, the U.S. embassy in Tbilisi said on Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LQ130468.htm



Russians are reporting "extraordinary" activity by NATO in Black Sea:

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=1300887...

Will add more to above link as soon it updates.



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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't believe it's out-of-line to suggest the possibility of a false-flag operation
I put nothing past the neocons, who are determined to keep conflicts raging - all in the quest for oil & empire. They're largely responsible for this particular conflict, which has more to do with access to Caspian Sea oil than any nationalistic concerns.

I hope the skippers of these US vessels remain vigilant for neocon skulduggery.
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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm extremely anxious about this situation
It's getting hard to keep up with all the latest news -- it's coming fast and furious.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. We already know that Darth loves Flase-Flag operations
at any cost.


Here - this will add to your concern -and rightly so

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. yeah but . . . The Russians are there!
The spec.com:

"Russia said today its troops would patrol Georgia's main Black Sea port, defying Western demands for a complete pullback to positions held before this month's outbreak of fighting over a Georgian rebel region."

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/424019

That was three days ago, I'm assuming they're still there. For about two weeks now they've been busy looting everything that's nailed down, including the nails, and blowing up Georgian shipping, so this begs a few questions. . .

No.1: Is it even safe to be going into to a port with wreckage under the water?
No.2: Where is the McFaul going to dock?
NO.3: Will there be any Georgians in Poti to recieve our aid?
No.4: What of the Russians say "Nyet" to our arrival?
No.5: Didn't the McFaul just deliver 55 pallets of goods to Batumi two days ago? They got back to Greece, reloaded, and got back that quick?

None of this makes any sense, unless the US is trying to get the Russians to do something stupid.

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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Remember the Maine
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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. More from Washington Post:
TBILISI, Georgia -- In a direct challenge to Russia, the United States announced Tuesday it intends to deliver humanitarian aid to the beleaguered Georgian port city of Poti, which Russian troops still control through checkpoints on the city's outskirts.

The aid will be delivered Wednesday by ship, a U.S. embassy spokesman said.

While Western nations have called the Russian military presence in Poti a clear violation of an EU-brokered cease-fire, a top Russian general countered Tuesday that using warships to deliver aid was "devilish."

<snip>

Embassy spokesman Stephen Guice did not give details on which ship would aim to enter Poti, but it appeared likely the smaller Coast Guard ship would aim to dock, with the McFaul possibly remaining on guard at sea.

More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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sourmilk Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. This could get strange very quickly.
If US ships get within 24 nautical miles of Russian contiguous territory, would they not then be subject to Russian interdiction and searches?

Sochi is going to be a very busy place for the next little while, I guess...
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. McFaul "on guard" at sea huh?
See, I knew there was something up with the whole McFaul thing. No way they have any "humanitarian" aid still onboard. They're there to show the flag.

The BBC:

"Some Russian troops also continue to operate near the Black Sea port of Poti, south of Abkhazia, where Russia says it will carry out regular inspections of cargo.

The US said on Tuesday that its warships would deliver aid to Georgia's port of Poti, which is under Russian control. The move could mean US and Russian forces coming face-to-face."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7582181.stm

No potential for disaster here.


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biggerfishsmallpond Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ukraine wants to kick the Russian Black Sea fleet out of Sevastopol
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 07:48 AM by biggerfishsmallpond
Hmm... I wonder if the Russians are looking for a back up location?

ahh geopolitical chess

and we all get caught in the cross fire
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. The Russians have no intention of leaving Sevastopol.
From a previous post:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bushmeister0/...

"Both Russia and Ukraine call for full and undeviating observance of the 1997 agreements, but attach different meanings of this phrase in some major respects. Crucially, Ukraine cites the 20-year time limit on the lease, calling for the Russian Fleets complete removal from Sevastopol and handover of the base to Ukraine by 2017. Russia, however, hopes to take advantage of a clause that permits the prolongation of that term by mutual consent. . .

The Russian side, however, avoids discussing that issue, biding its time and almost certainly hoping to pressure or cajole a future Ukrainian government into prolongation by mutual consent."

http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?a ...

By "mutual consent" read put puppet government in place or "cajole" through the use of arms?

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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Interesting history about that port
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
9. Russian troops still in Poti. Haven't withdrawn to the "buffer zones" there.
"Russian troops are also still in the Georgian port city of Poti, which is well outside the buffer zone and serves as the country's main link to the Black Sea."

Russia says its troops are allowed to stay in the buffer zone around South Ossetia under the terms of a ceasefire brokered by French president Nicolas Sarkozy.

The ships will be carrying humanitarian supplies but Russia says their mission is 'highly dubious'.

Several other warships from the NATO military alliance are also now in the Black Sea for war games planned before fighting flared between Georgia and Russia."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/24/2344712.h...
--------------------
Another report indicated that Russia was conducting "missile tests" in the Black Sea - also, "planned before the fighting" undoubtedly.

Russia has withdrawn into its agreed to buffer zone in all of Georgia except for the port city of Poti. Interestingly, Poti is also the terminus of the oil/gas pipeline through Georgia to the Black Sea.
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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. BINGO
"Interestingly, Poti is also the terminus of the oil/gas pipeline through Georgia to the Black Sea."

And there it is...

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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Moskva back on patrol.
Reuters:

"Russia's flagship cruiser re-entered the Black Sea on Monday for weapons tests hours after the Russian military complained about the presence of U.S. and other NATO naval ships near the Georgian coast. . .

The presence of so many ships from NATO countries earlier drew the ire of a Russian military spokesman during a daily media briefing on the conflict.

'The fact that there are nine Western warships in the Black Sea cannot but be a cause for concern. They include two U.S. warships, one each from Spain and Poland, and four from Turkey,' Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of the Russian military's General Staff said.

'"Moskva" has today departed toward the Black Sea Fleet's naval training range to check its radio-controlled weapons and onboard communications systems,' Captain Igor Dygalo was quoted as saying by Interfax.

On Sunday, the U.S. guided missile destroyer USS McFaul arrived with aid including camp beds, bedding, tents and mobile kitchen units, the U.S Defense Department spokesman Bryan. Whitman said.

Separately, the U.S. Coast Guard cutter Dallas has been dispatched with aid, while a third vessel, the Navy command ship USS Mount Whitney, is being loaded in Italy with humanitarian supplies for Georgia, he said." (Itlay, huh? Isn't Darth going to Italy next week?)

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSLP44212620...

BBC reports:

"Some Russian troops also continue to operate near the Black Sea port of Poti, south of Abkhazia, where Russia says it will carry out regular inspections of cargo.

The US said on Tuesday that its warships would deliver aid to Georgia's port of Poti, which is under Russian control. The move could mean US and Russian forces coming face-to-face.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7582181.stm
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Where did you get that Poti is "the terminus of the oil/gas pipeline" to the Black Sea?
Apparently, most of the oil is being shipped from Batumi and Supsa:

"Some 200,000 barrels per day of oil and refined oil products has been going from and via Azerbaijan to Europe via Batumi and 100,000 bpd to Poti, according to industry sources.

In addition, since the BTC explosion industry sources have said that BP has been sending some 45,000 bpd to Supsa on the Georgian Black Sea coast with an aim to raise it to 150,000 bpd.

...

Kazakh state energy firm KazMunaiGas became the sole owner of the oil terminal in Batumi's port in February 2008 by buying stakes from its partners.

The port shipped 518,500 tons of crude oil and refined products from different suppliers in July."

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/finance/9635270.asp

Map of oil pipelines in Georgia:



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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Poti is not the pipeline terminus.
But it is/was the Georgian Govt's main naval base.
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. WAG. THE. DOG.
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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. US no longer confirms navy ships headed for Poti
TBILISI - The US embassy in Tbilisi on Tuesday retracted a statement saying a US destroyer and another ship were headed for the Georgian port city of Poti, where Russian forces are deployed.

"We cannot now confirm that US ships will be travelling to Poti," embassy spokesman Stephen Guice said.

Guice had earlier said the USS McFaul, a destroyer, and another US ship, the Dallas coast guard cutter, were to arrive Wednesday in the strategic Black Sea port.

More: http://georgiandaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&t...

What the hell is going on...?
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Hmm . . . looks like someone blinked.
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 08:26 AM by bushmeister0
Maybe the reappearance of the Moskva in the Black Sea for "missile firing tests" is making them think twice?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Navy itself put the nix on this whole idea.

Obviously, the OVP is gung ho about showing the flag, but there must be some responsibe naval types doing the math and thinking perhaps the McFaul and a Coast Guard cutter are no match for the Moskva.
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Ships are just mere toys to play with on the water.
Submarines on the other hand... No US sub fears the Moskva!
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
16. So they just HAVE to fuck with the Russians
they can't help themselves... they HAVE to fuck with the Russians.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. It's the only way to get InSane McCain's number up in the Polls
and get them close enough so they can steal another one
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bongbong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. ASDF
These are the opening moves of the republics' October Surprise.

Expect a Caucasus mega-mess by October 29.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. Russia: NATO warships in Black Sea are "worrying"
MOSCOW, Aug 26 (Reuters) - Russia's top military brass said on Tuesday it doubted that NATO ships were delivering only humanitarian aid to Georgia and said Moscow was worried about a build up of alliance warships in the Black Sea.

Moscow, already angry at NATO expansion close to its borders, has been dismayed by the West's support for Georgia after Tbilisi tried to retake a pro-Russian breakaway region, sparking a massive Russian counter-attack.

The United States said that two warships would dock at the Georgian port of Poti on Wednesday to deliver humanitarian aid.

"The extraordinary level of activity by NATO navies is perplexing for us," said Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy head of Russia's general staff.

more:http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LQ325371.htm
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. Picking a fight we don't want...again n/t
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks for posting.
I read the 2nd link, and there's a photo of a very powerful-looking ship moving in. The article says that "there are NATO ships moving in".

What NATO ships? Is there any country besides the US which has destroyers?

It looks suspiciously like the US and no one else.

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oldhippie Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Is there any country besides the US which has destroyers?
I count at least seven countries in this article. I know there are more.

Also, "As the expense of heavier surface combatants has generally removed them from the fleet, destroyer tonnage has grown (a modern Arleigh Burke-class destroyer has the same tonnage as a World War II light cruiser). Arleigh Burke is billed by her builders as ton-for-ton the most powerful warship in history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. This exercise has been scheduled for some time.
NATO would have looked like a sissy if it scheduled an exercise because of *problems* in the area.

My recollection is that NATO Black Sea exercises have been going on for some time--Turkey has a long Black Sea coast and is a long-time NATO member. Romania and Bulgaria are newbies in NATO and have ports in the SW Black Sea.

I just hope that each and every ship captain sailing around this large bathtub keeps his or her head firmly screwed on.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. Can you say "incongruous"?
Two U.S. warships will deliver humanitarian supplies
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