One shot at Arkansas Democratic Party headquarters (assassination attempt)

[EarlG]

Source: CNN

One person was shot Wednesday at the Little Rock, Arkansas, headquarters of the state Democratic Party, police said.

The Arkansas Democratic Party said the chairman, Bill Gwatney, was hospitalized after the shooting, CNN affiliate KTHV reported. Little Rock police would not confirm or deny whether Gwatney was shot.

Little Rock police Lt. Terry Hastings said that the victim was in critical condition at the hospital.

The suspect, who fled the scene after the shooting in a pickup truck, led police on a chase into Grant County before being shot, Hastings said.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/13/arkansas.shootin...

[maddezmom]

1. Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ (in Arkansas)

Source: KATV

Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ
Shots fired within office at Democratic Party HQ, victim is a white male who police say is in a serious condition. Witnesses say suspect asked to see the chairman, was taken into the building and then 3 gunshots were heard. Suspect is currently being chased by police in Grant County.

Read more: http://www.katv.com /

[maddezmom]

8. Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ - Suspect Believed Dead

A shooting occured Tuesday at the Arkansas Democractic Party Headquarters leaving one victim - a white male - in serious condition.

Witnesses say the suspect asked to see the Party chairman, entered the building and some time later three gunshots were heard.

The suspect fled by vehicle, was chased by police and is now believed dead.



http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0808/543890.html

[Pale Blue Dot]

24. The AP story says that the suspect is in custody.

I guess we'll know the truth soon enough.

[Ex Lurker]

420. This may yet turn out to be

political, but it's sounding more like a guy who just snapped. He was fired from his job earlier in the day after behaving erratically, and after the shooting went down the street to the Arkansas Baptist offices, where a quick thinking employee ushered him out before he could do any harm. Pending more information, this guy's target list seems non-ideological.

[norepubsin08]

327. Yahoo is saying that

The State Democratic Chair has died....it's time to prosecute Rush, Hannity, Coulter et al as co defendants in this!!!

[caseymoz]

368. I don't know what you could charge them with.

They can maybe be sued for criminal incitement, but the success of that is in doubt, and the last thing our party needs right now is to make right-wing hosts into martyrs when its our people who are getting murdered.

Moreover, those scumbags never said people should shoot Democrats, and they don't lead an organization that does it. I doubt very seriously that they want Liberals and Democrats murdered (except Ann Coulter has said we should be tried for treason, which is punishable by death).

First, let's hear more about the perp.

[bjobotts]

422. Free speech does not include inciting people to commit hate crimes

[bjobotts]

423. Just like it doesn't give you the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre

[caseymoz]

548. Except in this case, the theater would always be crowded. (eom)

[norepubsin08]

518. How about

conspiracy in an assassination, aiding and abetting, accessory to murder, incitement of violence, voter suppression, criminal intimidation, illegal use of FCC airwaves, civil right violations, hate crimes, treason for undermining the political process! Usually a good prosecutor could find SOMETHING to charge and make it stick!!!

[caseymoz]

549. I wouldn't be too careless about opening up the arsenal of charges to suppress speech.

You should be afraid of where it would be used next, especially after the B-Administration killed every other right. Say the wrong thing and you might disappear.

[Solly Mack]

2. K&R

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Sadly Inevitable.

There will be more. That said, it is a sad commentary that such brutal events may serve to break up the complacency and magical thinking in our own ranks.

I repeat: There will be more of these horrible events between now and November and if we win, after as well.

[Supersedeas]

162. certainly feels like a nation divided; even Mukasey DoJ can't prosecute partisan law breakers

[bjobotts]

424. It's not a nation divided, it's a nation wher dissent is called treason

[bjobotts]

425. Not a nation divided, a nation held hostage by a few who cheated to gain power.

[TomClash]

166. Spot on

I think this is totally accurate. But no one seems to take these threats seriously.

[bluestateguy]

4. These talk radio hosts need to be stopped.

They are pushing fragile people over the edge with their hateful bile.

[wvbygod]

15. Oh please

You got the facts? Let's share them if so. Could be another jealous ex with a deathwish.

Some radio hosts suck badly but I'll be damn if I will use them as a scapegoat for
some sick fuck out to harm others. I'd start by blaming the shooter and go from there.

[tridim]

26. RW hate radio has been telling their listeners to take out Dems for years.

You really don't think that has an effect?

[CrazyDude]

72. Name one specific instance of a talk radio host advocating violence against Democrats n/t

[AllieB]

78. Michael Savage on a daily basis.

[Carolina]

102. thank you

the 'pro-lifers' effectively took out some clinics by killing the doctors; and they were often exhorted to do so by the talking haters on TV, radio and the internet.

Those who think that the blame/hate sewage on the airwaves has no effect or consequence are delusional.

Fragile psyches, easy guns and hate speech ...

[movonne]

235. It looks like all the FP came over to stick up for this kind of action..even

if he was due to some other kind of lover revenge...the RW talk and the media encourage this hate talk..

[AllieB]

258. Yes, it's the same response as when the Knoxville UU Church Shooting occurred

This one seems more like a workplace issue-the shooter was laid off. We know for a fact that the Knoxville shooting was motivated by hate talk.

[Peregrine Took]

313. I was wondering where these aliens came from!! n/t

[calimary]

383. limbaugh on a daily basis.

Overtly AND covertly.

It stems from the general, ongoing demonizing and demeaning and belittling Dems and liberals, calling us names, sneering at us, making us out to be ungodly, subhuman, traitors, terrorist-lovers, America-haters, baby-killers, feminazis (ever heard THAT one?), commies, socialists, fill-in-the-blank-heres. That starts to get to people - it gets into their minds and predisposes them toward hating and wishing to persecute or sequester or otherwise rid themselves of liberals, "a national blight." And it's okay to think so because limbaugh said so, and limbaugh's big and rich and famous so he must be doing something "right", 'eh?

Most of his listeners and followers merely listen to be amused or to feel validation (like the weenie on the playground who befriends the big behemoth). Relatively speaking, they're harmless.

But there's that small segment. There's a small segment in virtually every population - the teeny head or tail end of the snake - that isn't harmless. Sometimes they take as gospel what these assholes are saying. And if they're fired up on the proverbial hate-radio steroids, who knows what they might do?

And remember, limbaugh's already exhorted his dittoheads to create mayhem and mischief in Denver when the Dems are in convention. References to riots and overturned cars - people do tend to get hurt in those things.

[Divine Discontent]

107. why, because you're so damn lazy to look it up on google yourself, CrazyDude

1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."

2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."

3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him."

4. John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."

5. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."

6. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

7. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."


That's just SOME of the spewed filth of the hundreds of incidents where they've advocated violence towards liberals, Gays, Democrats, and these are just SOME of the better known repubs doing it - there's hundreds smaller swine of the GOP who've said the same.

You, CrazyDude, are lazy.

[fascisthunter]

110. no because he's full of shit

anyone on the internet has the capability and ease to know what we already know...

[Divine Discontent]

389. the capability and ease to know what we already know

good point.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[av8rdave]

199. Look at the post count. He may well be a troll.

[Truth2Tell]

229. may well be?

There are two piling on here. Both have been glaringly obvious for some time. Now rushing to the defense of their Rush.

I hope the pizzas are in the oven.

Edit to add: turns out it's a flying monkey attack. A whole swarm, not just two. My bad. Evidently all ya gotta do is besmirch their heroes and they can't help but out themselves.

[av8rdave]

380. I sorta figured....was trying to stay "opn minded" How ironic! LOL

[AllieB]

513. looks like that pizza's been cooked.

[raincity_calling]

222. RW hosts and their hatred always reminds me

of a scene from the movie "Hotel Rwanda." The Hutu militia radio broadcasts, calling the Tutsi people cockroaches and that the cockroaches must be killed. It was chilling. And the hate coming forth from Ann Coulter, Savage, et al is no different, and it has the same effect - generates hatred and ultimately violence.

[gratefultobelib]

410. I am so damned naive. I sincerely didn't know this kind of hate talk was going on. Of course,

it's because I never listen to or read these people. Thank you for the timely research. I'm going to be using this.

[Lost4words]

113. Are you kidding with that question?

8643

[tridim]

114. Michael Savage Wiener..

"You will not have a nation unless you awaken to the reality that America has become pacified; America has become feminized; and America is being compromised from without and within," Savage warns. "You cannot let them get away with this. Can America be saved? Is it too late? I believe that with God's will and with your determination to confront the mental disorder of liberalism whenever and wherever it is found, America can both survive and thrive."

In so many words, that statement is advocating violence against Liberals and gays.

Of course they never quite say "Kill the Liberals", well Coulter does, but Limbaugh and others have been giving listeners the "wink-wink" for years.

[defendandprotect]

544. So . . . you can't show a woman's breast on TV, but you can get on the radio and

advocate murder of liberals . . .

Where in the hell are the Democrats --- ????

[desktop]

118. Are you kidding or are you in the wrong website

"I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo — every
filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress."
— Sean Hannity

"To fight only the al-Qaeda scum is to miss the terrorist network
operating within our own borders... Who are these traitors? Every
rotten radical left-winger in this country, that's who."
— Michael Savage

"Liberalism is the greatest threat this country faces."
— Rush Limbaugh

"It is not a stretch to say that MoveOn is the new Klan."
— Bill O’Reilly

"I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I
could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it.
No, I think I could."
— Glenn Beck

"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically
intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed,
too."
— Ann Coulter

"The Islamofascists are actually campaigning for the election of
Democrats. Islamofascists from Ahmadinejad to al-Zawahiri, Oba --
Osama bin Laden, whoever, are constantly issuing Democrat talking
points."
— Rush Limbaugh

"There are things in life worth fighting and dying for and one of ‘em
is making sure Nancy Pelosi doesn’t become the speaker."
— Sean Hannity


"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough around so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for."

Rush Limbaugh

[ForeignSpectator]

243. OMG, how can an entire country put up with such filth?! Just take glenn beck, he is on cnn, right?

Such utter stupidity, absurdity and hatred in all these statements and NO consequences whatsoever?!?

[johan helge]

304. Thanks, desktop. Scary

Where did you find these quotes?

[desktop]

312. answer

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.inves...

[proud2BlibKansan]

124. Rush Limbaugh

"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."

[Blue_Tires]

126. Liddy and plenty others during the Clinton/Reno years

of course, they never say "go out and kill dems" directly, but there is a phone book's worth of loaded codewords, subtext, and calls for action that can only be interpreted one way

[DailyGrind51]

139. Ann Coulter, with her "baseball bat" quote

Ann Coulter on tour: "I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days" to talk to liberals.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410070004

[ekwhite]

398. Fine Ann

You bring your baseball bat - I'll bring my Ruger .357 magnum.

[notadmblnd]

178. Ever right winger's favorite son Rush Limpballs

“Riots in Denver, the Democrat Convention would see to it that we don’t elect Democrats,” Limbaugh said during Wednesday’s radio broadcast. He then went on to say that’s the best thing that could happen to the country…

…Limbaugh said with massive riots in Denver, which he called “Operation Chaos,” the people on the far left would look bad.

“We do, hopefully, the right thing for the sake of this country. We’re the only one in charge of our affairs. We don’t farm out our defense if we elect Democrats … and riots in Denver, at the Democratic Convention will see to it we don’t elect Democrats. And that’s the best damn thing that can happen to this country, as far as I can think,” Limbaugh said…Rush

[hasssan1]

205. Somone should Arrest This motherfucker

For advocating Riot , violence , threat against public safety and so many other criminal charges.

[DutchLiberal]

254. Let me tell you: ALL of them would be arrested if they said THOSE things on Dutch airwaves...

We have laws saying you can't "spread hatred against" or "intentionally and gravely insult" specific groups of people. If you would be a Dutch host and you would tell your listeners to 'take out' liberals on a daily basis, you would be thrown of the airwaves and into jail.

[Seeking Serenity]

268. I thank God that we have freedom of speech embedded in our Constitution.

[DutchLiberal]

297. I thank God the Dutch understand yelling 'kill the liberals!' is NOT freedom of speech.

Really, what IS the difference between Limbaugh and Savage (et al.) repeating over and over again liberals are evil and should be 'taken out'/'destroyed'... and the Rwanda radio stations which said the same about the Tutsis?

[fascisthunter]

333. I Love How the Right Wing Tries to Hide Behind Rights

[DutchLiberal]

552. Yeah, just when you thought the Constitution was only "a goddamned piece of paper"...

I'm a fan of irony, but those guys are carrying it a little too far...

[zeemike]

That is because the Dutch clearly remember

The last time hate speech was used to slaughter millions of people.
we seem to have forgotten all of that.

[helderheid]

329. Goed zo!

[DutchLiberal]

331. LOL! Dank je!

Are you Dutch? Or do you or your family come from Holland?

[helderheid]

396. I married a man from there and lived there with him for a couple years. Our son was born in Utrecht.

[DutchLiberal]

551. Utrecht? That's were I live!

Only now I see your username is also Dutch.

[mwb970]

348. Stop making me envious of the Netherlands!

My 14-year-old niece keeps asking me "Why are people so much smarter in Europe?" What am I supposed to answer?

[DutchLiberal]

553. I don't think we are. If we were, we wouldn't keep electing politicians who keep screwing us...

It's a universal thing, I guess.

[Bluebear]

223. You're still here?? Wow.

[wicket]

248. Go fuck yourself

[Mnemosyne]

255. Thursday, Jan. 26, 2006

"We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee," Coulter said.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/01/27/coult...

Lose your bridge to foreclosure yet?

[Froward69]

283. rush, orieley, coulter, dobson

they all do. from time to time.

[tblue37]

292. Michael Reagan offered to pay for the bullets for those who would

take out liberals.

[ngant17]

319. Wow, are you on another planet or what?

They've been doing this on a regular basis since at least JFK was in office.

It's even worse since the rightwing dominates the talk show air waves these days. Since 9/11, America has been poisoned on a regular basis by the violence embedded into right-wing language on the airwaves.

Often we hear of nuts who are fans of these right wing talk show hosts, and they end up being messed up so much from listening to the right wing garbage-baiting against Democrats, liberals, ect., they eventually go on killing sprees. It almost always turns out that the guy is a big fan of one or more of these fascist nutballs on the air, like Rush, Savage, O'Reilly, Hannity, et. al.

Keith Olbermann receives envelopes at his home containing white powder (anthrax scare). These were sent by someone who admitted to being an "acolyte" of Michele Malkin and Ann Coulter.

Here's another typical and recent example:

On Sunday, 27 Jul 2008, 58-year-old Jim Adkisson entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church during a children’s performance of the musical “Annie Jr.” In a guitar case, he carried a shotgun and 76 rounds. Adkisson killed two church members, Greg McKendry (60) and Linda Kraeger (61), and wounded six more before he was wrestled to the ground as he tried to reload. What was Adkisson’s motive? A report from the local Knoxville news details the findings from Adkisson's home, along with key statements from a document written by Adkisson related to an apparent motive behind the violent attack that rocked the suburban community:

"Adkisson targeted the church, 'because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets.'

I would even have to include right Rev. Pat Robertson's call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez.

See also Daily Kos more instances of rightwing talkshow violence against Democrats:

"When Ann Coulter can talk about poisoning a Supreme Court Justice who isn’t sufficiently right wing bat shit insane, when Bill O’Reilly can talk about al Qaeda coming to bomb San Francisco and that being just peachy with him, when Michele Malkin can incite unhinged followers to target an 11 year old boy and his family over health insurance, when Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and whoever else rails against how Bill and Hillary Clinton are socialist communist pigs that are the root of all evil in this world, when Glenn Beck asks a sitting Congressman to "prove he isn’t a terrorist" just because he is Muslim, when the Washington friggin Post spreads lies about Barack Obama based on xenophobia, this type of hatred becomes mainstream."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/1/11117/4376

[sunnystarr]

522. I saved this quote from a Knoxville newspaper

According to the News-Sentinel, Knoxville police department investigator Steve Still wrote in the search warrant that Jim David Adkisson, the man who was arrested in the rampage, went to the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets."

Adkisson, who had served in the military, said "that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement he would then target those that had voted them in office," the search warrant states. Among the items seized from Adkisson's house were three books: "The O'Reilly Factor," by television commentator Bill O'Reilly; "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder," by radio personality Michael Savage; and "Let Freedom Ring," by political pundit Sean Hannity.

[helderheid]

325. WOW. Your name says it all.

[geckosfeet]

339. Does advocating the bombing of San Fransisco count?

Dumb ass mutha effer.

[rasputin1952]

341. Rush Limbaugh, calling for riots in Denver...

Michael Savage...(nee Weiner), calling for the beheading of gays.

Limbaugh again, calling for the death of several less than prominant D's after Vince Foster's suicide.


The RW lives on fear, they are always calling for the death of someone, albeit usually in some kind of "code".

[TN al]

359. Rush Limbaugh offered to pay for the first two stitches of any Democrat beaten by a repub.

Chuck Baker wound up Francisco Duran to take shots at the white house. And Jim Adkisson, who shot up a knoxville church, thought that all liberals should be killed because they are ruining America. They found books by Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly at his home and he was a listener to both O'Reilly and Hannity. The list is pretty long.

[Wednesdays]

361. Name one specific instance of a talk radio host condemning violence against Democrats n/t

[Faryn Balyncd]

369. Michael Savage has repeatedly called for Sen. Durbin to be "drug out of the Senate in chains" for...

....what Savage calls "sedition" (quoting an American officer's description of American actions in an official Army report, while debating a bill on the Senate floor).

[Maestro]

407. You, my friend, are either hard of hearing

or ignorant! Check out the posts below for your instances. RW hate radio is horrible. It lowers one's IQ just listening to it.

[chknltl]

415. From the drugster limbaugh's lips to your ears:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjwE-kJpyts

[eridani]

418. Did we ever settle that question about whether or not Limpballs

--was a pedophile junkie? I saw something about that on those Internets tubes.

[chknltl]

541. Unaware of this, sorry...

If his pedophile issue is limited only to looking at stuff online and what he does is all legal-(well we already knew that the man is a sicko)-then I'll not be too down on him all things considered. It is his constant non-stop hate that he spews daily that I take my most serious issue with. However if he were to be busted for being a criminal pedophile then I would like to see him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[Rockholm]

428. Follow the Link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Taverner]

519. O'Reilly on a daily basis

[Scriptor Ignotus]

99. no

I don't.

If you're crazy enough to kill someone because Rush or Ann said to, you are crazy enough to do it all on your own.

[maxrandb]

174. BS!!!

Right-wing hate gives the guy a match, a can of gasoline, and for 24/7/365 a year tells him "that building over there is the root of all evil"

Then, when the guy burns the building to the ground, they say; "I have no idea why a person would do such a thing".

Remember, some of the first folks dealt with at Nuremberg were the propagandist.

[Mnemosyne]

272. Maybe we need to start reminding the Corpse M$M of this fact,

often and loudly.

They are complete cowards, besides being traitors, every one of them would roll in a minute if they thought "enhanced interrogation", otherwise known as TORTURE, and prison waited for them.

Execution for treason these days, I wonder?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

411. right-wing hate-speak hits my ears too

(and yours) and yet we have burned no buildings to the ground. I read Townhall.com, FreeRepublic and Drudge and yet I have no killed no liberals.

ERGO,

the fault lies with the arsonist, in your analogy, not with the gasbags on the right.

[DailyGrind51]

236. Ever see "Hotel Rwanda"?

The Hutus were told to "Kill the Tutsi cockroaches!", and they did. Jozef Goebbels and Julius Streicher dehumanized Jews, comparing them to rats and other vermin, so that the German population would be receptive to having them carted off and packed into cattle cars.

[Seeking Serenity]

247. What does all of this have to do with today's events?

Based on the information we have, nothing.

Chill, people. Y'all look silly with all of this.

[mwb970]

350. I envy your complacency.

To hear what's going on with right-wing radio and to say "Chill, people. Y'all look silly." Wow. That takes some kind of willful blindness! Y'all must be pretty dang laid back.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

414. can we not compare everything bad that happens in the world

to the Holocaust?

That was um, kind of an extreme situation. Same with Rwanada. We are a far, far, far, far, far cry from those types of events in this country, in respect to Republicans killing Democrats.

It's ok to be vigilant about hate-speech, but damn people. This is getting out of hand.

[The Hope Mobile]

416. This is an exteme situation.

Fascism is fascism. The goals and results are the same.

[Wednesdays]

366. So, if someone on the radio called for everyone to torch YOUR house

You'd be all right with that.

[mistertrickster]

144. Agreed. Before you can have hateful acts, you have to have hateful speech. nt

[dbonds]

35. Right Wing Terrorist in the US have been showing their ugly heads lately.

Just need eyes to see it.

[Geek_Girl]

371. Lately?

They've been doing it since before I was born. Before 911, the worst acts of terrorism in this country have been done by RWingers.

[Occulus]

36. Isn't that exactly how it started in Rwanda, though?

Hate radio?

And didn't that guy that shot up the church recently have books by these people in his car?

Yeah, I'd say it is time, and past time, to hold the hatemongers on talk radio accountable.

[AllieB]

91. Yes, and they are being sought/tried for war crimes.

Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII. We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country.

[Stewie]

93. Calling for the execution of conservatives?

Who's the hatemonger now?

[notadmblnd]

105. Can you point out to me which poster called for the execution on conservatives?

because I'm not seeing it here.

[Stewie]

112. Read the comment above me

"Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII. We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country."

[AllieB]

125. I don't believe in the death penalty

but I DO believe in holding propagandists accountable.

[notadmblnd]

135. I did and he advocated no such thing.

the poster explained how one person was held accountable in the past. I did not see where he said execute the current hatemongers. Saying someone needs to be held accountable in this country is quite a leap from saying someone should be executed.

[maxrandb]

That's not calling for the "execution" of conservatives

That's calling for justice!

You forgot to bold the "tried" part of the sentence. It appears just before the "and executed" part you bolded.

Big difference.

You're not saying we should have just let the Nazi Propagandist go, are you?

You're not using the "Julius Streicher was just an entertainer defense, are you?

[kestrel91316]

353. Well, WTF are you whining about? YOUR BUDDIES on the right

are the ones creaming their shorts in their excitement over their beloved death penalty.......

[Wednesdays]

370. You competely skipped over the "tried" part of that sentence

I wonder if today's shooter and the one who shot up the church held a "trial" first, before opening fire.

[AllieB]

122. Did you forget the sarcasm icon?

Because I'm pointing to a historical basis that ties hatemongering propaganda to crimes like genocide and murder. If you think there's no connection, then you have no grasp of history.

[Stewie]

138. And history has a lot of people like you

People who use every excuse at hand to arrest and imprison political opponents.

YOU are a threat to freedom.

Why not let the FBI arrest every environmentalist author every time an SUV dealership burns?

[AllieB]

146. Now you're overreacting.

I'm talking about terrorism here-and fascism. It's a real stretch to indict me as a person who 'use every excuse at hand to arrest and imprison political opponents.' Give me a break.

What about the 'pro-lifers' who target clinics with bombs and kill the doctors? they were often exhorted to do so by the talking haters on TV, radio and the internet. What should happen to them?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

373. What about PETA?

A scientists house was firebombed a couple of weeks ago with the scientist, his wife and young child inside. Animal rights activists took credit for the firebombing. The Unabomber had Al Gore's book in his possession when he was arrested.

David

[AllieB]

400. Then they should be prosecuted. However, so called 'pro-lifers' have taken many more innocent lives

with their terrorism than PETA. I think PETA are whacked.

It's very interesting how all you guys show up on the same threads to defend your buddies. Subtle as a sledgehammer...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

402. I don't disagree with you.

Just giving some examples. Arson, for any reason, affects me and people I know and care about. Sorry that's not subtle.

David

[AllieB]

405. My dad was a firefighter, so I totally agree with you.

The point that many were making in the thread, however, is the influence of RW propaganda. History has implicated propaganda in genocide and murder (Rwanda, Serbia, Nazi Germany, etc). Propagandists have been convicted as war criminals. The Knoxville shooter who shot up a liberal Unitarian church was a fan of Savage, Coulter, and Rush. They are accessories in these kind of heinous acts.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

409. They seem to have been influential.

As Al Gore seemed to be to the Unabomber. Accessory is a strong word, too strong in my opinion. The Knoxville shooter's wife began attending that church before she divorced the shooter, clearly there were many stressors that caused him to develop that kind of hatred and target that church. A good friend was one of the 4 men that tackled the shooter. I have spoken with him extensively, a little informal "Critical Incident Stress Management" of sorts.

David

[sunnystarr]

524. So you're disagreeing with this..?

According to the News-Sentinel, Knoxville police department investigator Steve Still wrote in the search warrant that Jim David Adkisson, the man who was arrested in the rampage, went to the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets."

Adkisson, who had served in the military, said "that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement he would then target those that had voted them in office," the search warrant states. Among the items seized from Adkisson's house were three books: "The O'Reilly Factor," by television commentator Bill O'Reilly; "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder," by radio personality Michael Savage; and "Let Freedom Ring," by political pundit Sean Hannity.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

530. How on earth could you possibly come to that conclusion?

[YOY]

511. You will find most people here think PETA are loons.

Granted they are our loons but I'd rather have them then psycho rednecks.

[Indenturedebtor]

157. Theres a big difference between advocating an opposite view - like

"We need to cut back on green house gasses or we're all buggered." and advocating a course of action that results in an SUV dealership being burned. The hatemonger facists are directly advocating murder, and selling it as a patriotic duty.

Um, how is that different again from the nazi and rwanda propaganda? Please do tell. Looks about the same to me.

[magellan]

221. So if someone on the radio or TV told listeners "Stewie is a threat to America"

..."The best way to deal with Stewie and his/her beliefs is a baseball bat", etc and so on, day in and day out, you wouldn't feel the least bit motivated to have that person stopped?

And please don't give me "They don't know who I am" or other weak responses. It comes down to this: do you or don't you believe everyone in this country has the right to their opinion without having to fear becoming a target of violence?

[Name removed]

230. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jazzgirl]

269. My, my...you guys really are out in a group today.

n/t

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

311. what makes you think they don't?

[CitizenPatriot]

347. too late, the DoJ is already doing this

They investigate and come after democrats and liberals, esp prior to election season. Admitted, investigated, and found guilty thereof is our Dept of "Justice". So, our govt is already doing what you suggest it should not do in order to protect freedom of speech/belief.

And no one said anything about hurting conservatives, unless you equate every hate mongering propagandist as necessarily being conservative?

it was simply suggested that hate speech sold as propaganda which incites people to hurt a group of people based only on their identification with that group is a crime. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with the right to life and believe what you choose without being prosecuted for it.

it is an incorrect assumption that freedom of speech supersedes all other rights.

For a right to life group, it's exceptionally arrogant and hypocritical that they believe their right to speak (hate and propaganda) overrides another person's right to life. So, now it is OK to call for the death of people who believe something they don't? And when in fact some "crazy", who conveniently got shot and now can't speak for himself, acts on their words, they feel no guilt? wow. arrogance and insanity personified.

that's the profile of a sociopath or a psychopath.

[YOY]

512. Freedom (tm)

What exactly is Freedom? Define it.

[kestrel91316]

355. Sadly, the only "history" these christian homeschooler wackos

learn is the Old Testament....

[zonmoy]

152. Differences with the democrats is that the democrats call for giving the republicans fair trials

before executing them. republicans call for assasinating democrats and everybody else the dont like. If they give a trial they create a kangaroo court to try them and make sure they get convicted.

[Crunchy Frog]

173. Wow, this thread is really bringing out the freepers.

[Occulus]

323. AMAZING how they get all defensive of their own when shit like this happens, isn't it? n/t

[fascisthunter]

338. I Guess They Think They are Slick

then again, dumb people are like children who pretend mommy can't see them when they cover their own eyes with their own hands.

[Name removed]

197. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occulus]

322. No, but a trial and conviction for incitement of violence would be nice. n/t

[pagandem4justice]

337. Translation, for the reading comprehension impaired.

"Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII." <-- Separate sentence, historical example.

Sentence #2, current situation, not in direct reference to said Nazi:
"We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country." <-- Note that because these ideas are joined by a conjunction (which I think should actually be a semicolon, but whatever), the pronoun "it" refers to the action taken in the first part of the sentence...i.e., "holding hatemongers accountable." Not execution.

Now, if you were to ask the next logical question, "hold them accountable how?" then you refer back to the previously-cited historical example, which involves trial, followed by execution...execution being the result of the trial.

In plain English, the poster did not "call for the execution of conservatives." She/he called for an accountability on the part of the hatemongers on par with the trial of a Nazi propagandist (the result of which was execution).


Gosh, I think this freeper has a higher post count than me, and I've been here since '04...Guess I need to talk more.

[fascisthunter]

340. yes... please do

this place is crawling with them....

[LanternWaste]

43. Propaganda works... n/t

Propaganda works...

[Wetzelbill]

55. the guy who shot up that church

Had Michael Weiner's book "Liberalism is a Mental Disease" plus Hannity's and I think O'Reilly's. He was an avid listener to RW radio and killed people because their liberal views. This case might be different but it is an attack on a political party's headquarters, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a hate crime. These radio hosts are always trying to amass their people for riots, like Limbaugh wanted to do at the Dem convention, etc. Some mentally ill guy could think it natural to go a step further. With a black man poised to be president, don't expect it to get any better.

[KittyWampus]

111. Do television ads make people buy crap they don't need or that is even detrimental to their own well

being?

[Lost4words]

155. Thats a great big YES Dude!!!

[Hissyspit]

120. Here - examples of right-wing calls for violence against liberals:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Occulus]

326. Isn't their lack of response to examples just incredible?

Erm. Sorry. Incredibly predictable is what I meant to say.

[stanwyck]

121. You got any facts?

I guess you're as adept with "the google" as McCain.
Wake up and realize what a disease hate-radio is in this country.
Your defense of those calling for murder is...indefensable.
You need to ramp up your skills to post here.

[zeemike]

276. Have you already forgotten when that lady on Fox news

Said that she hoped that Obama and Osama were both killed?
And that is no low powered radio station, abut a major player in the MSM

[Ian David]

316. Tell that to the people of Rwanda. n/t

[kestrel91316]

349. Didn't you study what led to the RWANDAN GENOCIDE

a while back in your christian homeschool???????

Betcha you think the Abu Ghraib torturers were 100% responsible and their superiors were pure as the driven snow, huh?

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[atreides1]

82. "Only if we ban all mosques"???

Are you saying that all mosques preach hate? Any evidence that can prove this you should be provided.

And while we're at it let's ban all Christian churches based on the Westboro Baptist church and the Phelps family.

[99th_Monkey]

95. actually we DO know ..

the guy who shot up that church had Michael Weiner's book "Liberalism is a Mental Disease" plus Hannity's and I think O'Reilly's. He was an avid listener to RW radio and killed people because their liberal views. This case might be different but it is an attack on a political party's headquarters, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a hate crime. These radio hosts are always trying to amass their people for riots, like Limbaugh wanted to do at the Dem convention, etc. Some mentally ill guy could think it natural to go a step further. With a black man poised to be president, don't expect it to get any better.

[Daphne08]

187. I think you're on the wrong website. n/t

[HEyHEY]

225. I don't think he is - he's making a good point - wait, maybe he IS on the wrong site

[Hugabear]

266. Get lost, you fucking asshole

I sense a pizza coming your way in the near future...

[Jazzgirl]

271. Mmmm....pizza is yummy. I like the one with all the fixins'.

Do you like pepperoni or sausage or just cheese?

You most certainly are in the wrong place.

[HEyHEY]

84. Rush limbaugh did this?

[keroro gunsou]

189. i don't think so

he's too busy being a pill-popping, little boy toucher... or so i've heard...

[Dreamer Tatum]

88. Got anything resembling a fact that applies to this case?

At this point we don't know what the score is.

[Rhiannon12866]

517. I think you're right.

I was once in the car and ran across a really hateful show on the radio. The host gave a lawyer's name and home address because he was advocating his listeners to hunt her down. Turned out it was Michael Weiner Savage, who MoveOn got removed from MSNBC, but he's still on the radio...

[B2G]

5. Breaking News: Shooting At State Democratic Party Headquarters

Source: Todayshv

Little Rock police are on the scene of a shooting on West Capitol Street at the state Democratic party headquarters. The Arkansas Democratic Party says the chairman, Bill Gwatney, is hospitalized after incident. At least three shots were fired after a man walked into the building during the noon hour.
The 1300 block West Capitol was shut down after the shooting, just blocks from the state capitol in downtown Little Rock.

Witnesses said one person was apparently seriously wounded and taken from the scene by ambulance.

Officers said they were pursuing a white man in his 40's that fled the scene in a truck. Little Rock police say officers are pursuing a suspect into Saline County off I-530, south of Little Rock.

Stay with Today's THV and todaysthv.com for more on this developing story.




Read more: http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=...

[LiberalEsto]

7. White man in 40s, truck

Reminds me of the guy that shot up the Unitarian Church in Knoxville a few weeks ago.

Is this a conspiracy?

[Dreamer Tatum]

68. A white man in a truck? That's enough for me.

Time to indict Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and the rest of them.

[Truth2Tell]

240. Long past time actually freeep. nt

[fascisthunter]

358. You Better Catch their Last Shows Then...

how will you ever get your talking points....

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

213. Well, possibly.

Google "Phineas Priests".

[SoxFan]

531. OMG! A white man in a truck in Arkansas!

You just described my entire church softball team from 1999 and 2000.

[HillbillyBob]

58. I am afraid there will be more

Not to be harsh, but as an out gay man in the south Alabama, Fla now NC. I know first hand what kind of hate is out there. When I lived in Fla I had occasion to hear rash limpd k spew about how nasty gay people are and libruls etc. I thought even way back then that it has to have some effect on the unstable righties and sooner or later this kind of stuff would be happening.

[Kire]

6. Stay strong, people.

nt

[Maine-ah]

9. omfg.

[librechik]

10. Heres' the AP link

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEMOCRATIC_PARTY...

[Kire]

11. Chairman of State Dems is hospitalized in critical condition

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Kire]

23. Bill Gwatney

Here he is on August 2nd, talking about opening an Obama campaign HQ in Little Rock:
http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2008/08/02/news/08030...

[nc4bo]

44. Disturbing. I wonder if there's a connection between the nutjob and this...

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2008/08/02/news/08030...

some of the comments there in your lnk are just crazy and racist as hell.

[Nite Owl]

12. OMG!

Homegrown terrorists...

Hope they are all ok.

[Iggo]

137. Terra? What the..?

We ain't got no terra-ists here. Only crim-nuls.

Terra-ists is them brown furriners!

[librechik]

13. ...haven't we all been expecting this since the church shooting?

or, since Limbaugh decided to tell his people to kill us?

DAMN!

[wvbygod]

20. No, but it's a good way ignore personal responsibility

Any voices convincing someone to harm another are in the attackers head only.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. You seem awfully anxious to defend RW hate radio.

I suppose Goebbels was scapegoated too.

[WriteDown]

I can sympathize with the previous poster though...

I don't want anybody censored regardless of political affiliation.

[Occulus]

61. If they're doing the equivalent of crying "fire" in a crowded theater,

they need to be removed from the broadcast spectrum immediately.

[WriteDown]

67. Personally....

I've never heard of someone calling for violence on another, but I don't listen to much AM radio. I can see any efforts to censor getting out of control though in the interest of "security."

[TrogL]

117. then you need to start listening to AM radio

God knows why, one of the local stations up here carries Rush Limbaugh in all his glory. Somebody in my workplace had it on all day until I filed a sexual harassment complaint (cause of all the homophobic crap) and had it shut down. In the meantime I had to listen to Rush babble away. In his "joking" way, he often recommends violence against all sorts of people, especially liberals and members of the Democratic party.

[rinsd]

132. What no scurrilous speculation as to why the chairman brought this upon himself?

But we do have a defense of rw hate media so way to keep your bonafides going.

Here's a short list of violent threats against liberals and Democrats

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

You can then remove your head from the sand and put it back to it customary position.

[Iggo]

141. Nerer heard? Or never heard of?

Big difference.

If you've never heard of it, you haven't been paying attention.

[Daphne08]

210. Then tune into Michael Savage one day. I did and it made

me ill.

[kestrel91316]

362. You need to get out of your little cave more often.

RW hate radio hosts have been openly advocating violence against and even murder of liberals in general and some specific individuals for YEARS.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

417. especially when they monopolize our airwaves to do it

I don't even get Air America in my town, and it is one of the larger in my state.

But we sure do get our fill of Rush Limbaugh. My little ole neighbor
listens to his every word. And she is supposed to be a Christian.

[Stewie]

77. Exactly

If right wing radio hosts are responsible for this, then Keanu Reeves needs to be arrested for Columbine.

I wonder about the mental stability of people who look to use every tragedy to arrest their political opponents.

[Occulus]

320. Go do a quick study on the genocide in Rwanda

and THEN post your tripe.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Then again, maybe you know exactly what you're doing on this board.

Things that make you go, "HHHhhhmmm."

[Name removed]

363. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wednesdays]

379. Keanu Reeves had a grudge against the kids of Columbine?

[me b zola]

106. Who is talking about censoring? --answer: only you & your cohorts

There is a huge difference between people promoting conservative issues and those promoting hate and violence. When we speak of hate radio we mean hate speech, the kind that is not protected by law but is being given a blind eye to by those who are occupying the Dept of Justice.

[Dogtown]

241. A tag-team match

wvbygod distracts them, while you tie their shoelaces.

Do either of you fratboys have a genuine contribution?

[kestrel91316]

360. You probably wouldn't have had any objection at all to the

anti-jewish propaganda spewed by the Nazis, or the murderous threats and instigation by the Rwandan hate radio, either.

[wvbygod]

86. I blame the shooter period.

There is no excuse. RW hate radio has no influence of or notice by me.

And yes, I alway get anxious when someone defends a shooter who has only intent to harm another.
I live with it every day.

[John Kerry VonErich]

150. Sounds like people are jumping to conclusions

We have yet to know the motive or who the shooter is.

[Seeking Serenity]

182. Jumping to conclusions before all of the facts are in is DU's favourite pastime.

Speaking as someone in Little Rock, the word I'm getting is that he was a disgruntled former employee, not a Rush-bot just following orders by assassinating Democrats..

[Binka]

159. You Can Figure Out Why CF

It is pretty obvious.

[AllieB]

169. wvbygod doesn't understand history obviously.

Julius Streicher was tried and executed for war crimes after WWII. He was a major propagandist. The influence of propaganda is well-documented throughout history as a step toward genocide, fascism, and murder. The propagandists should be held accountable for their actions.

[Crunchy Frog]

180. He was a poor, innocent scapegoat.

[wvbygod]

215. Show how that history relates to this shooting please

Obviously you can't or you would not be making wrong assumptions about me.

I truly do enjoy the prattle of those that project their weakness upon me.

[AllieB]

219. ...

1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."

2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."

3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him."

4. John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."

5. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."

6. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

7. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."

[wvbygod]

232. Thanks and all good information but......

I refuse to jump to any conclusion in this case without more evidence. I hope you are
not a DA or other law enforcement type tho....

[AllieB]

245. No, and now that it seems that this was a workplace shooting

I'll withold my judgement until more details come out. We know for a fact, however, that the Knoxville church shooting was motivated by propaganda.

[bear425]

34. Exactly what kind of personal responsibility should the victim have taken here?

what personal responsibility are you talking about?

[Kire]

65. I think...

...they're referring to the fact that the shooter should be taking personal responsibility and not trying to get out of jail with the excuse that he was listening to too much talk radio.

[wvbygod]

92. The shooter and HIS personal responsibility

Who the fuck did you think I meant? The victim? Get real.

[bear425]

104. I think your answer is out of line and disrespectful.

You could have ended it with the first part.

[wvbygod]

216. Yes, I could and should have

It's just that when someone projects ill intent upon me I get excited. Survival instinct.

[bear425]

270. I'm assuming you're not implying I was projecting ill intent upon you.

I may have misunderstood your earlier post regarding personal responsibility, however, there was no ill intent in my post to you. If you feel that way about my post, well, that's for you to sort out.

[wvbygod]

318. Thanks. No, not any ill intent here.

Just some others that tried to imply I was defending the RW gasbags. I may despise the RW
(and other) attempts to stir crap up with borderline people but after being locked up
by lying and other false charges, I despise jumping to conclusions with no facts at all.

[miles 2 go]

41. Wrong! Those right wingnut radio hosts are always

encouraging their off balanced wingnut listeners to do violence. It's enough to make them think that they are doing whats best for them and the country because of the bullshit the host is spewing. If it was a liberal station doing the same, it would suddenly be illegal.

Of course we don't yet know what happened in this case, but we have seen this kind of thing again and again and it comes back as retaliation for abortion, gay, anti gun blah blah blah. THat's why so many people automatically jump to the conclusion that it was a fucktard wingnut at the trigger.

He asked to see the chairman rather than ask for someone by name after all.

The republicans are assholes that think killing is ok. If you happen to know of any real close by...tell them I said so.

[Occulus]

42. So you're defending hate radio AND advocating "personal responsibility"?

Things that make you go, "HHhhhmmmmm."

[wvbygod]

101. Grow up

[fascisthunter]

108. that person is on ignore for a reason

[LanternWaste]

48. There are no voices...

There are no voices on the A.M. radio shows attempting to convince people to harm others?

Denial of that may only be in person's head, though...

[Kire]

123. Examples?

links?

[LanternWaste]

136. "physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/20/lop...


Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for."

Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too," and "I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days,"


need more examples? There's plenty more to see if one open his eyes...

[Doctor_J]

234. Here you go

this is a SMALL sampling

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Kire]

384. thanks

I saved that page on StumbleUpon and Delicious.

I heard it could be added to Digg, too, but I haven't decided to get into that yet. Maybe later, thanks.

[Wednesdays]

378. Personal responsibility

So, then if a radio jock calls for YOUR ass to be targeted, that'd be okay with you. After all, that wouldn't increase the likelihood someone would try to kill you one iota, right?

[peace13]

49. I think about it every Tuesday when I stand at the peace vigil.

When people bring little children to stand with us I am always on the lookout. If one of Rush's nut cases comes a calling I want to be able to shield the little guys. Only in america can entertainers encourage carnage and get paid for it.

[starroute]

131. I see it less as incitement than as validation

There are certain actions we all know are wrong -- but if someone we respect tells us they're okay, or makes them seem glamorous, we're more likely to do them. This ranges from trivial stuff like littering, through abuse of drugs and alcohol and tobacco, and up to hate crimes and murder.

It isn't clear how far to take the question of responsibility. Does John Hinckley's obsession with Taxi Driver mean that Martin Scorsese is responsible for Hinckley's attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan? Presumably not -- though I think it's playing with fire to create any powerful work of art which deals sympathetically with mass murder.

However, in the case of Limbaugh and his brethren, I believe they are very definitely responsible for creating a climate in which hatred of liberals and thoughts of violence against them are socially acceptable. It is that sort of breakdown of social norms that makes possible the situation you had in Nazi Germany -- where private violence against Jews long preceded official genocide. And if we do not act in some way now to make it clear that those things are *not* tolerated, we will all feel the consequences in the future.

[librechik]

238. good thinking--and remember RWANDA

http://www.idrc.ca/rwandagenocide/ev-108178-201-1-DO_TO...

[nc4bo]

14. What the bloody hell is going on there? Heard the short breaking news blurb but

everything's sketchy.

[Janice325]

16. Thanks for letting us know, EarlG.

So sad.

[alfredo]

17. The shooter is dead and the victim in serious condition

[Gold Metal Flake]

18. Dead how? Cops?

[B2G]

Shooter is dead?

Link? I heard he was in custody with non-lifethreatening injuries.

[Pale Blue Dot]

27. The AP story says that the suspect is in custody. nt

[napi21]

40. CNN just reported that they are working on air lifting suspect to a

local hospital. IF that's true, he's obviously not dead! Sometimes this rush to get the news out first is just plain aggrivating! You can never be sure what's really going on!

[alfredo]

59. They said lately that they were trying to resuscitate him.

A reporter said a man fitting his description ran into a Baptist church and complained about losing his job. He then ran out the back and got into a blue truck.

[napi21]

28. I wonder if we'll ever find out why he did this? n/t

[Dr.Phool]

134. A post in the comments section of the TV station,

Not very credible source, but they say it was rumored that the shooter was recently laid off at Gwatney Chevrolet. Gwatney owns 3 car dealerships.

Just a rumor so far.

[eridani]

419. The layoff probably wasn't personal then--car sales are sucking these days--

--except for very fuel efficient cars.

[gblady]

30. too bad...

the shooter is dead...
could be we'll never know the why of it...

[Alexander]

19. Absolutely horrific.

[InNeedOfUserName]

21. The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was hospitalized in critical condition....

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was hospitalized in critical condition today, a party executive said. A television station reported that three shots were fired at party headquarters.

“There has been an incident at the party and chairman (Bill) Gwatney has been taken to the hospital,” said Bruce Sinclair, the director of the state Democratic Party.

Police said they apprehended a suspect....
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articlei...

[Bozita]

22. We need to know the shooter's sources of news/information

[harun]

239. Is that a rhetorical question?

Because I think everyone on this site knows the answer to that already.

[bertman]

25. My advice: all Dems go out and buy a hunting license. Then go buy a nice automatic 12 gauge shotgun

and a semi-automatic hunting rifle capable of bagging a deer or bear at a 100 yards. Then buy a .357 magnum pistol for shooting varmints. Buy plenty of ammo too because you're gonna need it if you want to learn to be an accurate shooter.

Learn gun safety, teach your kids gun safety and how to shoot. Keep your guns well maintained, locked up, but easily accessible.

We're all Americans here. We have a right to own firearms. There's a reason for this.

You never know when you might be so poor you might need to bag a doe to feed your family.

Just sayin'.

[tridim]

31. So your solution is to buy bigger, better guns?

No thanks, that's what BushCo does.

[CrazyDude]

74. I believe all political figures should be armed, hell I believe everybody should be armed n/t

[Alexander]

85. Everyone? Are you sure about that?

Felons?

Drunks?

People with severe mental problems?

Do you think Dick Cheney should have a gun?

[fascisthunter]

342. anyone believing everyone should be carrying IS Mentally Ill

or all of the above.

[slackmaster]

554. Or maybe just a troll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[sharp_stick]

190. Ooooh big surprise there n/t

[nomaco-10]

296. If this poster is not from....

"that other website", then maybe they should be.

If the shoe fits...or in this case, the username and post content....

Worth watching, that's all.

[kwolf68]

45. What the hell does a hunting license have to do with this?

You can have a gun to protect yourself without foraging through the woods looking for unsuspecting/unarmed victims. The real quarry for me is the assholes who want to shoot me for being a Democrat.

Look at me, I don't hunt, but I own guns and can use em too. Yeppers.

[benEzra]

201. Another gun-owning nonhunter here. Only ~1 in 5 gun owners hunts.

And a deer rifle is really too powerful for defensive purposes. Small-caliber carbines (particularly .223) and shotguns are a better choice, IMO, though handguns are certainly more portable.

[leftynyc]

231. Yours is one of the reasons I'm currently

looking into getting a shotgun. If they're going to take me down, I'm going fighting.

[Dr.Phool]

46. You'll want to be able to nail a deer at at least 250 yards.

That's only half the distance on a decent par four golf hole.

[LanternWaste]

53. The day I give in to fear...

No thanks. The day I give in to fear is the day the terrorists, the extremists and the nuts have won. That day is not here.

"Just sayin'..."

[WriteDown]

54. Where are you going to get an automatic shotgun?

[Xithras]

83. I assume he meant semi-automatic or "autoloader"

The term "autoloader" is widely used by the manufacturers themselves to describe semi-automatic shotguns, and a lot of people switch "autoloader" with "automatic".

E.g. "Pull the trigger and it shoots, without any of that stupid pumping stuff to slow you down". I have a Mossberg 930 with a Choate 8 shell extension (nine shots if you keep one chambered). In a pinch, I can put nine slugs into a target in just under four seconds. My shoulder will need medical attention afterwards though.

[Codeine]

They do make them,

but they presumably illegal for civilian ownership. The AA-12 is a low-recoil, full-auto 12-gauge with both standard and drum magazines available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zlWplfLQ2E

[WriteDown]

149. Well aware and would love to have one...

but getting my class III license isn't likely.

[Codeine]

153. I can't think of a single good reson to have one,

but I still want one!

[benEzra]

546. You'd have to be an SOT; mere peons can't own one even with a Form 4...

as they are post-'86s and therefore police/military/government use only.

[bertman]

330. My granddaddy bought me a 12ga. double barrel when I was 12 (in '59). My dad had a 12 ga. automatic.

It was a bird and rabbit gun. We called them automatics back then (even though they were really semi-automatics), and that's what my hunter friends call them to this day.

As Xithras explains a few posts down, it simply means you don't have to pump or re-cock a hammer to fire the next round. I have never even heard the term "autoloader", but then I gave up hunting a lot of years back.

As far as a deer rifle goes, around here a 100-yard shot is a LONG shot. This ain't the Great Plains so you don't need a scope even, unless you want to be a show off--, or you don't know how to apply "Kentucky windage", or your eyesight is failing.

"Get a hunting license" was my weak attempt at humor, but taking a gun safety course and exercising due diligence for storing and controlling weapons was meant as a serious suggestion for anyone who is not already properly trained about guns.

I have some friends who are Democrats who own guns, but not that many own them. And I have a lot of friends who are Democrats. I must say that most of my friends who are Republicans own guns, whether or not they are hunters.

[leftynyc]

76. Do you need the hunting license in

order to get the shotgun? My understanding of that was that you didn't. But I love that you brought up gun safety. I'm one of those evil liberals who has no hatred of guns.

[benEzra]

204. No. Most gun owners don't obtain hunting licenses because they don't hunt.

You do have to pass a Federal point-of-sale background check, fill out Federal paperwork on the transaction, and your state may have additional requirements. (Gun-owning nonhunter here, FWIW.)

Do you live in NYC, though? If so, you pretty much have to have a lawyer to walk you through the process, or have LOTS of time, money, and patience. Outside of NYC, the state of NY's purchase requirements are not particularly onerous, although there are some silly rules on rifle stock shape and such, IIRC.

[leftynyc]

226. I realized that handgun owners don't

necessarily hunt but hadn't heard about a hunting license for a shotgun. I do not live in the city (about 15 miles north) and have already looked into getting a shotgun (for various reasons). I appreciate your reply.

[notadmblnd]

127. Funny you mention that. My son who wasn't particularly keen on it

is taking the class in Hunter's Saftey at the Sportsman's club as I type; for just that very reason. I told my son you never know how bad things can get and he might have to know how to feed himself. Damn bunch of republicans don't have a clue they're passing knowledge onto a staunch future Dem.

[Jackpine Radical]

130. What makes you think we're all unarmed?

I have 2 pickup trucks, a hunting dog & 3 tractors too, if you want to complete the stereotype.

[leftynyc]

237. Shhhhh

Let em think that we're all unarmed. It only helps us.

[HeeBGBz]

251. Like we aren't armed already?

[madrchsod]

32. the right wing radio heads are the most dangerous

people in america today. after listening to that levin guy out of new york it`s pretty clear people like him are going to start pushing people over the edge.

i hope this is`t the case in this shooting

[wvbygod]

37. Killers as victims of radio host trash talk?

Would you accept that as a defense of someone that harmed another?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

51. Not a defense, but an explanation.

[Occulus]

57. Rwanda.

http://www.idrc.ca/rwandagenocide/ev-108178-201-1-DO_TO...

Way too much information for me to decide what's important to quote, but if you give the link even a cursory reading, you'll get the point quite clearly.

[miles 2 go]

62. No one is saying it as a defense. Asshole telling asshole to do

something and asshole does it, does not excuse asshole.

[Kire]

66. Rush Limbaugh is live talking about John Edwards right now.

I guess nobody has written any talking points yet.

EDIT: Georgia and a big jail being built in Denver are apparently more important than a possible political assassination attempt in Arkansas right now.

[Kire]

525. Was Rush deliberately trying to change the subject away from the shooting yesterday?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

You decide.

[Virginia Dare]

33. Thanks to hate radio, mission accomplished!...

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wetzelbill]

39. Honestly, hate crimes occur if you demonize a group of people all the time

as the Right does with Democrats. Like the guy in the church, he was practically brainwashed to hate liberals. Obviously others have touched on this in this thread as well, I agree.

[nc4bo]

52. and yet another church (Baptist church this time) visit by a nutjob.

CNN not saying if the Dem shooting is connected to it or not.

[Cooley Hurd]

60. The Baptist church gun guy stated he lost his job before leaving...

...They're saying the description of the Baptist church guy and his vehicle matches the Dem HQ shooter.

[AzDar]

Makes one wonder : exactly WHICH part of ' Thou Shalt Not Kill ' do these loonies NOT GET?

[CrazyDude]

79. Agreed, but I don't think the motive here has been shown

Nor do I believe hateful speech that merely provides motivation to commit hate crimes, like Lou Dobbs, but does not actually incite violence should be banned. If we go down that road, the 1st Amendment has gone to shit.

[Wetzelbill]

right, I'm just saying if this was one it wouldn't surprise me

[leftynyc]

80. I was on vacation when that happened and

don't know any details. Could you give me a short synopsis if you have a second. Thanks.

[Dr. Strange]

279. I have a suspicion...

that if what's being discussed down thread turns out to be true, your demonizing argument is going to be used to hammer the left. (And maybe DU in particular.)



By the way...

" I can't wait to get on the ice this year; I want to be the Mick Foley of Alberta Curling"- enigmatic

[Wetzelbill]

Yes, but understand I am not saying they advocate or ordered

anybody to shoot a Dem or anything. I'm just saying if you constantly demonize a group of people there will be mentally ill people who buy into it enough to do something bad. Same with people who are GLBT or of a different race. Xenophobia will lead to sick people committing awful acts.

[FrenchieCat]

47. Bill Gwatney

[SleeplessinSoCal]

50. Somebody please lay this at the feet of Coulter, Savage, Limbaugh et al.

[nc4bo]

56. Send them the blood soaked clothing and lay it on their desks.

This is crazy NOW and think we've still got a long ways to go.

[alfredo]

63. They've tried to lay the blame for the job loss at the feet of the Dems.

[Dr.Phool]

142. I read a rumor in the comments section of the TV station there.

They said the rumor was, the shooter was recently laid off at Gwatney Chevrolet. I guess Bill Gwatney owns 3 car dealerships.

Just a rumor so far.

[alfredo]

176. That makes sense because he stated that he'd lost his job.

[wvbygod]

69. Yes, by all means blame anyone other than the shooter

Just like the brothers and sister of the jealous ex husband that died trying to kill
his ex-wife, family and her fiance blame her. Yeah, all these victims that go off trying
to kill people because "someone made them do it".

Is that anything like blaming the scantily clad rape victim?

[Occulus]

75. No, it's not

I urge you to learn about what went down in Rwanda. What happened there is exactly what you're saying shouldn't be blamed.

It could happen here as easily.

[rfranklin]

89. You are a very confused person...

Rush, Hannity and Coulter were not raped in this story.

[miles 2 go]

90. You don't comprehend what you read very well do you?

Maybe if you just go listen to Rush.....

[wvbygod]

116. Have you stopped beating your dog?

I'll wait for the facts before spouting off and blaming anyone other than the shooter.

As for comprehending things...any text, machine, theory, science, survival etc I will
be happy to compete against anyone who attacks me with a "You don't...do you?" cop out.

[miles 2 go]

143. Stopped beating my dog? Damn. I haven't even started yet and boy

does he deserve it. You should see the trash that he got into. He humps the other dog and is getting old enough that he thinks peeing on the carpet is ok now. Stop beating him? Ha!

[atreides1]

94. There is a difference

Between making someone do something and influencing someone to do something. People can be influenced by others, it's been going on for centuries, the church was great at it especially during the Crusades.

[asksam]

246. How about Michelle Malkin?

She admitted it on her blog that she's the shooter.

"I shot the Arkansas Democrat Party Chairman" she said.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/13/i-shot-the-arkansa... /

[Dollface]

539. She's just trying to gain acceptance by the reich-wing. Doesn't she realize she isn't white

enough for them to ever really accept her as one of their own? Poor deluded girl. Selling her soul for a one-night stand.

[carlyhippy]

64. this election year, I have a bad feeling

I hope this isn't going to be some kind of trend. I don't know why people have to be stupid and do stuff like this, it's sickening. The human race is quickly turning back to animal status.

[WriteDown]

71. Turning back?

I wasn't aware we'd left. Seriously.

[carlyhippy]

73. good point..

I insulted the poor animal kingdom by comparing humans to them.

[hamsterjill]

172. Bad feeling seconded

I have bad feelings, too. It brings back memories of John, Martin & Bobby. And I hope that Obama has thought about this and has the best security possible - plus some extra. I hope he takes every precaution possible. Frankly it scares me when I see him in such close proximity to the humongous crowds.

There are sickos out there who would try to kill him for their own reasons, and there are also sickos out there who would try to kill him to have the world believe the Clintons were behind it.

We live in a world gone crazy.

[Seeking Serenity]

188. Step away from the computer, people, and breathe.

There is no evidence that this has anything to do with politics.

[Sheets of Easter]

253. THANK YOU!!!!!

It's sad that of the 200+ posts in this thread, only a few people have addressed this fact. It's just too soon to tell. All this speculation looks foolish.

[hamsterjill]

290. Just expressing a concern.

And I'm breathing just fine, thank you.

Are you breathing okay there?

[ailsagirl]

81. Oh Good God... but why? WHY?

Sounds pretty bad...

[HEyHEY]

87. Time we start shooting back!

[Dr.Phool]

145. Only after you rub that bears belly.

[notadmblnd]

96. A nut job who took Limpball's advice?

[fascisthunter]

97. Right Wing Terrorism: Hate Radio and Fox News are the Fuel

they are cracking because they know their hay-day is just about to come to an end.

[flvegan]

98. Sounds like they're becoming very fearful of a November D victory.

Horrible way to deal with it. I wish Mr. Gwatney a speedy recovery.

[fascisthunter]

100. yes indeed

[wicket]

103. My god they are going to kill us all

[leftynyc]

244. Don't cry about it

Do something to protect yourself if you're really afraid. No reason not to go down fighting or actually even win.

[wicket]

252. It's a pretty famous line from the JFK assassination (Connally said it)

And I have a gun, kthanks.

[leftynyc]

259. Sorry - unaware of the reference

And frankly, I prefer the wingers actually believing we're all unarmed.

[wicket]

277. No worries

And re-reading my response, I didn't mean it to come off snarky like that, so my apologies as well. Good point about them thinking we are unarmed though

[redqueen]

109. My God...

can you imagine what this country would be like if liberals took up arms and just started shooting people when we get outraged? Especially considering the direction we've been headed over the past 30 years?

*sigh*

[HerbieHeadhunter]

115. I am hearing terrible news...

from people speaking to employees of the state party that Bill Gwatney passed away. I pray that the news is incorrect, but I fear that it is not.

[ailsagirl]

119. Oh no

[Seeking Serenity]

206. Not confirmed. 51-year-old shooter is dead.

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=...

[HerbieHeadhunter]

294. Unfortunately, it is confirmed...

it happened earlier, they were waiting to inform his family before announcing that he had passed.

Just terrible...

[jberryhill]

128. And if the shooter was a PUMA inspired Hillbot, then what? /nt

[Bluzmann57]

133. Then he was a criminal

No more, no less. No matter what set the shooter off, he is a criminal. Or was a criminal if he is indeed dead.

[jberryhill]

165. Yes, I understand that

The point was about banning speech because of the entirely fact-free assumption this had something to do with nutjob radio.

[MadrasT]

129. Wonder what this means?

Found this comment:

"Praying for all involved. Mr. Gwatney just did a good deed for us and Pray it has nothing to do with this kicking this candidate out of the upcoming election."

Here: http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=...

[B2G]

140. Rumor also had it that he lost his job

from one of Gwatney's dealerships. But hey, let's continue to speculate that is was a rabid rightwing talk radio junkie.

This sort of speculation and emotional vomiting just makes us look like idiots.

[TrogL]

147. then why not shoot him at the dealership?

[B2G]

154. Uh, because he wasn't *there*?

[Regret My New Name]

387. Why wasn't he there?

Exactly. Point made.

[theboss]

388. Because he was elsewhere?

I had this conversation in college once.

[Regret My New Name]

394. But where was elsewhere and why wasn't elsewhere there instead of elsewhere?

*edit... I just realized what an asshole I am and how inappropriate this probably is.

[Ellipsis]

148. It also says Bill Gwatney didn't make it... he's dead.

[MaineDem]

250. What???

Please provide proof of this statement.

[ailsagirl]

301. here

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/13/arkansas.shooting/i...

[WriteDown]

156. Mob mentality is a scary thing....

Regardless of who are what its directed toward.

edited for one letter.

[nc4bo]

158. well lots of people lose their jobs and it is a devastating situation to be in

but they don't go shooting up churches and political party offices because of it.

Why a Democratic Party Office anyway??

Using the broad brush here: Since when did the Dem Party become known as the party that looses jobs?

I hope the police find out why he did this. I just don't understand this at all.

God help us.

[B2G]

161. Gwatney is also a businessman

He owns 3 Chevy dealerships in the area. Chances are the shooter's rage was directed at the businessman rather than the party chariman.

But it's all speculation just now.

[nc4bo]

164. k, thanks - it's making some sense now. nt

[Doctor_J]

256. It became known as the party that loese jobs since

EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THE HATE RADIO STARS decided to feed it to every one of their moronic listeners.

[LanternWaste]

163. part and parcel of why message boards exist.

"This sort of speculation" is part and parcel of why message boards exist.

I'm sure you've never speculated on anything prior to having complete, full, and absolute knowledge of the How's, When's, Why's, Who's, and What's, but the rest of us are merely mortal...

[B2G]

167. Oh I've speculated

Just not to the point of calling for people's heads prior to knowing fact one about a given situation.

[LanternWaste]

170. rather inconsequential as it carries no legal authority...

"Calling for people's heads" is rather inconsequential as it carries no legal authority...

[B2G]

175. I never said it did

What I said was it makes us look collectively stupid if it comes out that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the shooter's politics. Which is looking very likely at this point.

[notadmblnd]

184. Really? Then why wasn't his employer the target?

[B2G]

186. I answered your qestion down there n/t

[snooper2]

193. Nah, just everyone above post 133

look collectively stupid

[B2G]

207. Thank god I'm below the line

[LanternWaste]

267. Mere speculation...

Mere speculation does not make a person or people look stupid-- regarldess of how this turns out. Idle speculation is part and parcel of a message board. Jesus...

[MadrasT]

151. Answered my own question, I think

"Candidate barred over scandal" http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/231825/

[Stewie]

168. It wouldn't be Dobbins

Dobbins is black. Gunman is white.