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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:39 PM
Original message
One shot at Arkansas Democratic Party headquarters (assassination attempt)
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:11 PM by EarlG
Source: CNN

One person was shot Wednesday at the Little Rock, Arkansas, headquarters of the state Democratic Party, police said.

The Arkansas Democratic Party said the chairman, Bill Gwatney, was hospitalized after the shooting, CNN affiliate KTHV reported. Little Rock police would not confirm or deny whether Gwatney was shot.

Little Rock police Lt. Terry Hastings said that the victim was in critical condition at the hospital.

The suspect, who fled the scene after the shooting in a pickup truck, led police on a chase into Grant County before being shot, Hastings said.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/13/arkansas.shootin...
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   Replies to this thread
  - Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ (in Arkansas)  maddezmom   Aug-13-08 12:40 PM   #1 
  - Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ - Suspect Believed Dead  maddezmom   Aug-13-08 12:45 PM   #8 
  - The AP story says that the suspect is in custody.  Finnfan   Aug-13-08 12:59 PM   #24 
  - This may yet turn out to be  Ex Lurker   Aug-14-08 01:45 AM   #420 
  - Yahoo is saying that  norepubsin08   Aug-13-08 05:05 PM   #327 
     - I don't know what you could charge them with.  caseymoz   Aug-13-08 06:09 PM   #368 
        - Free speech does not include inciting people to commit hate crimes  bjobotts   Aug-14-08 01:54 AM   #422 
        - Just like it doesn't give you the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre  bjobotts   Aug-14-08 01:54 AM   #423 
           - Except in this case, the theater would always be crowded. (eom)  caseymoz   Aug-14-08 11:03 PM   #548 
        - How about  norepubsin08   Aug-14-08 09:27 AM   #518 
           - I wouldn't be too careless about opening up the arsenal of charges to suppress speech.  caseymoz   Aug-14-08 11:08 PM   #549 
  - K&R  Solly Mack   Aug-13-08 12:40 PM   #2 
  - Sadly Inevitable.  Tandalayo_Scheisskopf   Aug-13-08 12:41 PM   #3 
  - certainly feels like a nation divided; even Mukasey DoJ can't prosecute partisan law breakers  Supersedeas   Aug-13-08 02:10 PM   #162 
  - It's not a nation divided, it's a nation wher dissent is called treason  bjobotts   Aug-14-08 01:56 AM   #424 
     - Not a nation divided, a nation held hostage by a few who cheated to gain power.  bjobotts   Aug-14-08 01:58 AM   #425 
  - Spot on  TomClash   Aug-13-08 02:11 PM   #166 
  - These talk radio hosts need to be stopped.  bluestateguy   Aug-13-08 12:41 PM   #4 
  - Oh please  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 12:50 PM   #15 
  - RW hate radio has been telling their listeners to take out Dems for years.  tridim   Aug-13-08 12:59 PM   #26 
  - Name one specific instance of a talk radio host advocating violence against Democrats n/t  CrazyDude   Aug-13-08 01:24 PM   #72 
  - Michael Savage on a daily basis.  AllieB   Aug-13-08 01:28 PM   #78 
  - thank you  Carolina   Aug-13-08 01:35 PM   #102 
  - It looks like all the FP came over to stick up for this kind of action..even  movonne   Aug-13-08 03:24 PM   #235 
  - Yes, it's the same response as when the Knoxville UU Church Shooting occurred  AllieB   Aug-13-08 03:41 PM   #258 
  - I was wondering where these aliens came from!! n/t  Peregrine Took   Aug-13-08 04:43 PM   #313 
  - limbaugh on a daily basis.  calimary   Aug-13-08 06:44 PM   #383 
  - why, because you're so damn lazy to look it up on google yourself, CrazyDude  themartyred   Aug-13-08 01:37 PM   #107 
  - no because he's full of shit  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 01:39 PM   #110 
  - the capability and ease to know what we already know  themartyred   Aug-13-08 07:26 PM   #389 
  - Look at the post count. He may well be a troll.  av8rdave   Aug-13-08 02:39 PM   #199 
  - may well be?  Truth2Tell   Aug-13-08 03:19 PM   #229 
     - I sorta figured....was trying to stay "opn minded" How ironic! LOL  av8rdave   Aug-13-08 06:24 PM   #380 
     - looks like that pizza's been cooked.  AllieB   Aug-14-08 08:42 AM   #513 
  - RW hosts and their hatred always reminds me  raincity_calling   Aug-13-08 03:04 PM   #222 
  - I am so damned naive. I sincerely didn't know this kind of hate talk was going on. Of course,  gratefultobelib   Aug-13-08 09:29 PM   #410 
  - Are you kidding with that question?  8643   Aug-13-08 01:40 PM   #113 
  - Michael Savage Wiener..  tridim   Aug-13-08 01:42 PM   #114 
  - So . . . you can't show a woman's breast on TV, but you can get on the radio and  defendandprotect   Aug-14-08 08:04 PM   #544 
  - Are you kidding or are you in the wrong website  desktop   Aug-13-08 01:43 PM   #118 
  - OMG, how can an entire country put up with such filth?! Just take glenn beck, he is on cnn, right?  ForeignSpectator   Aug-13-08 03:27 PM   #243 
  - Thanks, desktop. Scary  johan helge   Aug-13-08 04:30 PM   #304 
     - answer  desktop   Aug-13-08 04:43 PM   #312 
  - Rush Limbaugh  proud2Blib   Aug-13-08 01:47 PM   #124 
  - Liddy and plenty others during the Clinton/Reno years  Blue_Tires   Aug-13-08 01:49 PM   #126 
  - Ann Coulter, with her "baseball bat" quote  DailyGrind51   Aug-13-08 01:56 PM   #139 
  - Fine Ann  ekwhite   Aug-13-08 08:07 PM   #398 
  - Ever right winger's favorite son Rush Limpballs  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 02:26 PM   #178 
  - Somone should Arrest This motherfucker  hasssan1   Aug-13-08 02:44 PM   #205 
     - Let me tell you: ALL of them would be arrested if they said THOSE things on Dutch airwaves...  DutchLiberal   Aug-13-08 03:39 PM   #254 
        - I thank God that we have freedom of speech embedded in our Constitution.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 03:46 PM   #268 
        - I thank God the Dutch understand yelling 'kill the liberals!' is NOT freedom of speech.  DutchLiberal   Aug-13-08 04:22 PM   #297 
        - I Love How the Right Wing Tries to Hide Behind Rights  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 05:19 PM   #333 
           - Yeah, just when you thought the Constitution was only "a goddamned piece of paper"...  DutchLiberal   Aug-15-08 12:29 PM   #552 
        - That is because the Dutch clearly remember  zeemike   Aug-13-08 04:13 PM   # 
        - Goed zo!  helderheid   Aug-13-08 05:08 PM   #329 
        - LOL! Dank je!  DutchLiberal   Aug-13-08 05:16 PM   #331 
           - I married a man from there and lived there with him for a couple years. Our son was born in Utrecht.  helderheid   Aug-13-08 08:00 PM   #396 
              - Utrecht? That's were I live!  DutchLiberal   Aug-15-08 12:28 PM   #551 
        - Stop making me envious of the Netherlands!  mwb970   Aug-13-08 05:36 PM   #348 
           - I don't think we are. If we were, we wouldn't keep electing politicians who keep screwing us...  DutchLiberal   Aug-15-08 12:32 PM   #553 
  - You're still here?? Wow.  Bluebear   Aug-13-08 03:15 PM   #223 
  - Go fuck yourself  wicket   Aug-13-08 03:32 PM   #248 
  - Thursday, Jan. 26, 2006  vickiss   Aug-13-08 03:39 PM   #255 
  - rush, orieley, coulter, dobson  Froward69   Aug-13-08 04:05 PM   #283 
  - Michael Reagan offered to pay for the bullets for those who would  tblue37   Aug-13-08 04:13 PM   #292 
  - Wow, are you on another planet or what?  ngant17   Aug-13-08 04:54 PM   #319 
  - I saved this quote from a Knoxville newspaper  sunnystarr   Aug-14-08 10:04 AM   #522 
  - WOW. Your name says it all.  helderheid   Aug-13-08 05:05 PM   #325 
  - Does advocating the bombing of San Fransisco count?  geckosfeet   Aug-13-08 05:23 PM   #339 
  - Rush Limbaugh, calling for riots in Denver...  rasputin1952   Aug-13-08 05:24 PM   #341 
  - Rush Limbaugh offered to pay for the first two stitches of any Democrat beaten by a repub.  TN al   Aug-13-08 05:57 PM   #359 
  - Name one specific instance of a talk radio host condemning violence against Democrats n/t  Wednesdays   Aug-13-08 05:59 PM   #361 
  - Michael Savage has repeatedly called for Sen. Durbin to be "drug out of the Senate in chains" for...  charles t   Aug-13-08 06:09 PM   #369 
  - You, my friend, are either hard of hearing  Maestro   Aug-13-08 08:56 PM   #407 
  - From the drugster limbaugh's lips to your ears:  chknltl   Aug-13-08 09:55 PM   #415 
  - Did we ever settle that question about whether or not Limpballs  eridani   Aug-14-08 12:49 AM   #418 
     - Unaware of this, sorry...  chknltl   Aug-14-08 07:38 PM   #541 
  - Follow the Link.  Rockholm   Aug-14-08 07:08 AM   #428 
  - O'Reilly on a daily basis  Taverner   Aug-14-08 09:40 AM   #519 
  - no  Scriptor Ignotus   Aug-13-08 01:34 PM   #99 
  - BS!!!  maxrandb   Aug-13-08 02:24 PM   #174 
  - Maybe we need to start reminding the Corpse M$M of this fact,  vickiss   Aug-13-08 03:51 PM   #272 
  - right-wing hate-speak hits my ears too  Scriptor Ignotus   Aug-13-08 09:38 PM   #411 
  - Ever see "Hotel Rwanda"?  DailyGrind51   Aug-13-08 03:24 PM   #236 
  - What does all of this have to do with today's events?  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 03:30 PM   #247 
  - I envy your complacency.  mwb970   Aug-13-08 05:40 PM   #350 
  - can we not compare everything bad that happens in the world  Scriptor Ignotus   Aug-13-08 09:44 PM   #414 
     - This is an exteme situation.  NoMoreLurking   Aug-13-08 10:10 PM   #416 
  - So, if someone on the radio called for everyone to torch YOUR house  Wednesdays   Aug-13-08 06:06 PM   #366 
  - Agreed. Before you can have hateful acts, you have to have hateful speech. nt  mistertrickster   Aug-13-08 02:00 PM   #144 
  - Right Wing Terrorist in the US have been showing their ugly heads lately.  dbonds   Aug-13-08 01:06 PM   #35 
  - Lately?  Geek_Girl   Aug-13-08 06:09 PM   #371 
  - Isn't that exactly how it started in Rwanda, though?  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 01:07 PM   #36 
  - Yes, and they are being sought/tried for war crimes.  AllieB   Aug-13-08 01:31 PM   #91 
     - Calling for the execution of conservatives?  Stewie   Aug-13-08 01:32 PM   #93 
        - Can you point out to me which poster called for the execution on conservatives?  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 01:36 PM   #105 
        - Read the comment above me  Stewie   Aug-13-08 01:40 PM   #112 
           - I don't believe in the death penalty  AllieB   Aug-13-08 01:48 PM   #125 
           - I did and he advocated no such thing.  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 01:53 PM   #135 
           - That's not calling for the "execution" of conservatives  maxrandb   Aug-13-08 02:34 PM   # 
           - Well, WTF are you whining about? YOUR BUDDIES on the right  kestrel91316   Aug-13-08 05:51 PM   #353 
           - You competely skipped over the "tried" part of that sentence  Wednesdays   Aug-13-08 06:09 PM   #370 
        - Did you forget the sarcasm icon?  AllieB   Aug-13-08 01:46 PM   #122 
        - And history has a lot of people like you  Stewie   Aug-13-08 01:56 PM   #138 
        - Now you're overreacting.  AllieB   Aug-13-08 02:00 PM   #146 
        - What about PETA?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Aug-13-08 06:12 PM   #373 
           - Then they should be prosecuted. However, so called 'pro-lifers' have taken many more innocent lives  AllieB   Aug-13-08 08:18 PM   #400 
           - I don't disagree with you.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Aug-13-08 08:32 PM   #402 
              - My dad was a firefighter, so I totally agree with you.  AllieB   Aug-13-08 08:43 PM   #405 
                 - They seem to have been influential.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Aug-13-08 09:22 PM   #409 
                    - So you're disagreeing with this..?  sunnystarr   Aug-14-08 10:12 AM   #524 
                       - How on earth could you possibly come to that conclusion?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Aug-14-08 11:10 AM   #530 
           - You will find most people here think PETA are loons.  YOY   Aug-14-08 08:33 AM   #511 
        - Theres a big difference between advocating an opposite view - like  Indenturedebtor   Aug-13-08 02:04 PM   #157 
        - So if someone on the radio or TV told listeners "Stewie is a threat to America"  magellan   Aug-13-08 02:57 PM   #221 
        - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Aug-13-08 03:19 PM   #230 
        - My, my...you guys really are out in a group today.  Jazzgirl   Aug-13-08 03:47 PM   #269 
        - what makes you think they don't?  brandnewlaptop   Aug-13-08 04:43 PM   #311 
        - too late, the DoJ is already doing this  CitizenPatriot   Aug-13-08 05:36 PM   #347 
        - Freedom (tm)  YOY   Aug-14-08 08:34 AM   #512 
        - Sadly, the only "history" these christian homeschooler wackos  kestrel91316   Aug-13-08 05:52 PM   #355 
        - Differences with the democrats is that the democrats call for giving the republicans fair trials  zonmoy   Aug-13-08 02:02 PM   #152 
        - Wow, this thread is really bringing out the freepers.  Crunchy Frog   Aug-13-08 02:23 PM   #173 
        - AMAZING how they get all defensive of their own when shit like this happens, isn't it? n/t  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 05:01 PM   #323 
        - I Guess They Think They are Slick  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 05:21 PM   #338 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-13-08 02:39 PM   #197 
        - No, but a trial and conviction for incitement of violence would be nice. n/t  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 05:01 PM   #322 
        - Translation, for the reading comprehension impaired.  pagandem4justice   Aug-13-08 05:20 PM   #337 
           - yes... please do  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 05:23 PM   #340 
  - Propaganda works... n/t  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 01:09 PM   #43 
  - the guy who shot up that church  Wetzelbill   Aug-13-08 01:14 PM   #55 
  - Do television ads make people buy crap they don't need or that is even detrimental to their own well  cryingshame   Aug-13-08 01:40 PM   #111 
  - Thats a great big YES Dude!!!  8643   Aug-13-08 02:03 PM   #155 
  - Here - examples of right-wing calls for violence against liberals:  Hissyspit   Aug-13-08 01:45 PM   #120 
  - Isn't their lack of response to examples just incredible?  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 05:05 PM   #326 
  - You got any facts?  stanwyck   Aug-13-08 01:45 PM   #121 
  - Have you already forgotten when that lady on Fox news  zeemike   Aug-13-08 03:56 PM   #276 
  - Tell that to the people of Rwanda. n/t  IanDB1   Aug-13-08 04:49 PM   #316 
  - Didn't you study what led to the RWANDAN GENOCIDE  kestrel91316   Aug-13-08 05:38 PM   #349 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-13-08 01:22 PM   #70 
  - "Only if we ban all mosques"???  atreides1   Aug-13-08 01:29 PM   #82 
  - actually we DO know ..  Impeachment_Monkey   Aug-13-08 01:33 PM   #95 
  - I think you're on the wrong website. n/t  Daphne08   Aug-13-08 02:35 PM   #187 
  - I don't think he is - he's making a good point - wait, maybe he IS on the wrong site  HEyHEY   Aug-13-08 03:17 PM   #225 
  - Get lost, you fucking asshole  Paint It Black   Aug-13-08 03:46 PM   #266 
  - Mmmm....pizza is yummy. I like the one with all the fixins'.  Jazzgirl   Aug-13-08 03:49 PM   #271 
  - Rush limbaugh did this?  HEyHEY   Aug-13-08 01:29 PM   #84 
  - i don't think so  pc1971   Aug-13-08 02:36 PM   #189 
  - Got anything resembling a fact that applies to this case?  Dreamer Tatum   Aug-13-08 01:30 PM   #88 
  - I think you're right.  Rhiannon12866   Aug-14-08 09:24 AM   #517 
  - Breaking News: Shooting At State Democratic Party Headquarters  B2G   Aug-13-08 12:42 PM   #5 
  - White man in 40s, truck  LiberalEsto   Aug-13-08 12:43 PM   #7 
  - A white man in a truck? That's enough for me.  Dreamer Tatum   Aug-13-08 01:20 PM   #68 
  - Long past time actually freeep. nt  Truth2Tell   Aug-13-08 03:24 PM   #240 
  - You Better Catch their Last Shows Then...  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 05:57 PM   #358 
  - Well, possibly.  Tandalayo_Scheisskopf   Aug-13-08 02:50 PM   #213 
  - OMG! A white man in a truck in Arkansas!  BlueDogDemocratNH   Aug-14-08 11:21 AM   #531 
  - I am afraid there will be more  HillbillyBob   Aug-13-08 01:16 PM   #58 
  - Stay strong, people.  Kire   Aug-13-08 12:42 PM   #6 
  - omfg.  Maine-ah   Aug-13-08 12:46 PM   #9 
  - Heres' the AP link  librechik   Aug-13-08 12:46 PM   #10 
  - Chairman of State Dems is hospitalized in critical condition  Kire   Aug-13-08 12:46 PM   #11 
  - Bill Gwatney  Kire   Aug-13-08 12:58 PM   #23 
     - Disturbing. I wonder if there's a connection between the nutjob and this...  nc4bo   Aug-13-08 01:10 PM   #44 
  - OMG!  Nite Owl   Aug-13-08 12:47 PM   #12 
  - Terra? What the..?  Iggo   Aug-13-08 01:55 PM   #137 
  - ...haven't we all been expecting this since the church shooting?  librechik   Aug-13-08 12:48 PM   #13 
  - No, but it's a good way ignore personal responsibility  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 12:56 PM   #20 
  - You seem awfully anxious to defend RW hate radio.  Crunchy Frog   Aug-13-08 01:03 PM   #29 
  - I can sympathize with the previous poster though...  WriteDown   Aug-13-08 01:12 PM   # 
  - If they're doing the equivalent of crying "fire" in a crowded theater,  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 01:17 PM   #61 
  - Personally....  WriteDown   Aug-13-08 01:20 PM   #67 
  - then you need to start listening to AM radio  TrogL   Aug-13-08 01:43 PM   #117 
  - What no scurrilous speculation as to why the chairman brought this upon himself?  rinsd   Aug-13-08 01:52 PM   #132 
  - Nerer heard? Or never heard of?  Iggo   Aug-13-08 01:57 PM   #141 
  - Then tune into Michael Savage one day. I did and it made  Daphne08   Aug-13-08 02:47 PM   #210 
  - You need to get out of your little cave more often.  kestrel91316   Aug-13-08 06:00 PM   #362 
  - especially when they monopolize our airwaves to do it  WillYourVoteBCounted   Aug-13-08 10:14 PM   #417 
  - Exactly  Stewie   Aug-13-08 01:26 PM   #77 
  - Go do a quick study on the genocide in Rwanda  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 05:00 PM   #320 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-13-08 06:01 PM   #363 
  - Keanu Reeves had a grudge against the kids of Columbine?  Wednesdays   Aug-13-08 06:24 PM   #379 
  - Who is talking about censoring? --answer: only you & your cohorts  me b zola   Aug-13-08 01:37 PM   #106 
  - A tag-team match  Dogtown   Aug-13-08 03:25 PM   #241 
  - You probably wouldn't have had any objection at all to the  kestrel91316   Aug-13-08 05:58 PM   #360 
  - I blame the shooter period.  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 01:30 PM   #86 
  - Sounds like people are jumping to conclusions  John Kerry VonErich   Aug-13-08 02:02 PM   #150 
  - Jumping to conclusions before all of the facts are in is DU's favourite pastime.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 02:32 PM   #182 
  - You Can Figure Out Why CF  Binka   Aug-13-08 02:06 PM   #159 
  - wvbygod doesn't understand history obviously.  AllieB   Aug-13-08 02:18 PM   #169 
     - He was a poor, innocent scapegoat.  Crunchy Frog   Aug-13-08 02:30 PM   #180 
     - Show how that history relates to this shooting please  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 02:51 PM   #215 
        - ...  AllieB   Aug-13-08 02:55 PM   #219 
           - Thanks and all good information but......  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 03:21 PM   #232 
              - No, and now that it seems that this was a workplace shooting  AllieB   Aug-13-08 03:30 PM   #245 
  - Exactly what kind of personal responsibility should the victim have taken here?  bear425   Aug-13-08 01:06 PM   #34 
  - I think...  Kire   Aug-13-08 01:19 PM   #65 
  - The shooter and HIS personal responsibility  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 01:32 PM   #92 
     - I think your answer is out of line and disrespectful.  bear425   Aug-13-08 01:36 PM   #104 
        - Yes, I could and should have  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 02:52 PM   #216 
           - I'm assuming you're not implying I was projecting ill intent upon you.  bear425   Aug-13-08 03:48 PM   #270 
              - Thanks. No, not any ill intent here.  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 04:54 PM   #318 
  - Wrong! Those right wingnut radio hosts are always  miles 2 go   Aug-13-08 01:09 PM   #41 
  - So you're defending hate radio AND advocating "personal responsibility"?  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 01:09 PM   #42 
  - Grow up  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 01:35 PM   #101 
  - that person is on ignore for a reason  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 01:38 PM   #108 
  - There are no voices...  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 01:12 PM   #48 
  - Examples?  Kire   Aug-13-08 01:47 PM   #123 
     - "physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too"  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 01:55 PM   #136 
     - Here you go  TOJ   Aug-13-08 03:23 PM   #234 
        - thanks  Kire   Aug-13-08 07:05 PM   #384 
  - Personal responsibility  Wednesdays   Aug-13-08 06:21 PM   #378 
  - I think about it every Tuesday when I stand at the peace vigil.  peace13   Aug-13-08 01:12 PM   #49 
  - I see it less as incitement than as validation  starroute   Aug-13-08 01:51 PM   #131 
     - good thinking--and remember RWANDA  librechik   Aug-13-08 03:24 PM   #238 
  - What the bloody hell is going on there? Heard the short breaking news blurb but  nc4bo   Aug-13-08 12:48 PM   #14 
  - Thanks for letting us know, EarlG.  Janice325   Aug-13-08 12:51 PM   #16 
  - The shooter is dead and the victim in serious condition  alfredo   Aug-13-08 12:51 PM   #17 
  - Dead how? Cops?  Opposite Reaction   Aug-13-08 12:54 PM   #18 
  - Shooter is dead?  B2G   Aug-13-08 12:56 PM   # 
  - The AP story says that the suspect is in custody. nt  Finnfan   Aug-13-08 12:59 PM   #27 
  - CNN just reported that they are working on air lifting suspect to a  napi21   Aug-13-08 01:09 PM   #40 
     - They said lately that they were trying to resuscitate him.  alfredo   Aug-13-08 01:16 PM   #59 
  - I wonder if we'll ever find out why he did this? n/t  napi21   Aug-13-08 01:01 PM   #28 
  - A post in the comments section of the TV station,  Dr.Phool   Aug-13-08 01:52 PM   #134 
     - The layoff probably wasn't personal then--car sales are sucking these days--  eridani   Aug-14-08 01:10 AM   #419 
  - too bad...  gblady   Aug-13-08 01:03 PM   #30 
  - Absolutely horrific.  Alexander   Aug-13-08 12:54 PM   #19 
  - The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was hospitalized in critical condition....  InNeedOfUserName   Aug-13-08 12:56 PM   #21 
  - We need to know the shooter's sources of news/information  Bozita   Aug-13-08 12:57 PM   #22 
  - Is that a rhetorical question?  harun   Aug-13-08 03:24 PM   #239 
  - My advice: all Dems go out and buy a hunting license. Then go buy a nice automatic 12 gauge shotgun  bertman   Aug-13-08 12:59 PM   #25 
  - So your solution is to buy bigger, better guns?  tridim   Aug-13-08 01:04 PM   #31 
  - I believe all political figures should be armed, hell I believe everybody should be armed n/t  CrazyDude   Aug-13-08 01:25 PM   #74 
     - Everyone? Are you sure about that?  Alexander   Aug-13-08 01:30 PM   #85 
     - anyone believing everyone should be carrying IS Mentally Ill  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 05:27 PM   #342 
        - Or maybe just a troll  slackmaster   Aug-15-08 01:38 PM   #554 
     - Ooooh big surprise there n/t  simskl   Aug-13-08 02:36 PM   #190 
        - If this poster is not from....  nomaco-10   Aug-13-08 04:21 PM   #296 
  - What the hell does a hunting license have to do with this?  kwolf68   Aug-13-08 01:10 PM   #45 
  - Another gun-owning nonhunter here. Only ~1 in 5 gun owners hunts.  benEzra   Aug-13-08 02:40 PM   #201 
  - Yours is one of the reasons I'm currently  leftynyc   Aug-13-08 03:19 PM   #231 
  - You'll want to be able to nail a deer at at least 250 yards.  Dr.Phool   Aug-13-08 01:10 PM   #46 
  - The day I give in to fear...  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 01:14 PM   #53 
  - Where are you going to get an automatic shotgun?  WriteDown   Aug-13-08 01:14 PM   #54 
  - I assume he meant semi-automatic or "autoloader"  Xithras   Aug-13-08 01:29 PM   #83 
  - They do make them,  Codeine   Aug-13-08 02:01 PM   # 
  - Well aware and would love to have one...  WriteDown   Aug-13-08 02:02 PM   #149 
     - I can't think of a single good reson to have one,  Codeine   Aug-13-08 02:03 PM   #153 
     - You'd have to be an SOT; mere peons can't own one even with a Form 4...  benEzra   Aug-14-08 10:28 PM   #546 
  - My granddaddy bought me a 12ga. double barrel when I was 12 (in '59). My dad had a 12 ga. automatic.  bertman   Aug-13-08 05:13 PM   #330 
  - Do you need the hunting license in  leftynyc   Aug-13-08 01:26 PM   #76 
  - No. Most gun owners don't obtain hunting licenses because they don't hunt.  benEzra   Aug-13-08 02:44 PM   #204 
     - I realized that handgun owners don't  leftynyc   Aug-13-08 03:17 PM   #226 
  - Funny you mention that. My son who wasn't particularly keen on it  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 01:49 PM   #127 
  - What makes you think we're all unarmed?  Jackpine Radical   Aug-13-08 01:50 PM   #130 
  - Shhhhh  leftynyc   Aug-13-08 03:24 PM   #237 
  - Like we aren't armed already?  HeeBGBz   Aug-13-08 03:32 PM   #251 
  - the right wing radio heads are the most dangerous  madrchsod   Aug-13-08 01:04 PM   #32 
  - Killers as victims of radio host trash talk?  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 01:08 PM   #37 
  - Not a defense, but an explanation.  SleeplessinSoCal   Aug-13-08 01:14 PM   #51 
  - Rwanda.  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 01:16 PM   #57 
  - No one is saying it as a defense. Asshole telling asshole to do  miles 2 go   Aug-13-08 01:18 PM   #62 
  - Rush Limbaugh is live talking about John Edwards right now.  Kire   Aug-13-08 01:20 PM   #66 
     - Was Rush deliberately trying to change the subject away from the shooting yesterday?  Kire   Aug-14-08 10:24 AM   #525 
  - Thanks to hate radio, mission accomplished!...  Virginia Dare   Aug-13-08 01:05 PM   #33 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Aug-13-08 01:08 PM   #38 
  - Honestly, hate crimes occur if you demonize a group of people all the time  Wetzelbill   Aug-13-08 01:09 PM   #39 
  - and yet another church (Baptist church this time) visit by a nutjob.  nc4bo   Aug-13-08 01:14 PM   #52 
  - The Baptist church gun guy stated he lost his job before leaving...  Cooley Hurd   Aug-13-08 01:17 PM   #60 
  - Makes one wonder : exactly WHICH part of ' Thou Shalt Not Kill ' do these loonies NOT GET?  AzDar   Aug-13-08 01:26 PM   # 
  - Agreed, but I don't think the motive here has been shown  CrazyDude   Aug-13-08 01:28 PM   #79 
  - right, I'm just saying if this was one it wouldn't surprise me  Wetzelbill   Aug-13-08 02:10 PM   # 
  - I was on vacation when that happened and  leftynyc   Aug-13-08 01:28 PM   #80 
  - I have a suspicion...  DuStrange   Aug-13-08 03:58 PM   #279 
     - Yes, but understand I am not saying they advocate or ordered  Wetzelbill   Aug-13-08 05:28 PM   # 
  - Bill Gwatney  FrenchieCat   Aug-13-08 01:11 PM   #47 
  - Somebody please lay this at the feet of Coulter, Savage, Limbaugh et al.  SleeplessinSoCal   Aug-13-08 01:12 PM   #50 
  - Send them the blood soaked clothing and lay it on their desks.  nc4bo   Aug-13-08 01:15 PM   #56 
  - They've tried to lay the blame for the job loss at the feet of the Dems.  alfredo   Aug-13-08 01:18 PM   #63 
  - I read a rumor in the comments section of the TV station there.  Dr.Phool   Aug-13-08 01:58 PM   #142 
     - That makes sense because he stated that he'd lost his job.  alfredo   Aug-13-08 02:25 PM   #176 
  - Yes, by all means blame anyone other than the shooter  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 01:22 PM   #69 
  - No, it's not  kgfnally   Aug-13-08 01:26 PM   #75 
  - You are a very confused person...  rfranklin   Aug-13-08 01:30 PM   #89 
  - You don't comprehend what you read very well do you?  miles 2 go   Aug-13-08 01:30 PM   #90 
  - Have you stopped beating your dog?  wvbygod   Aug-13-08 01:42 PM   #116 
     - Stopped beating my dog? Damn. I haven't even started yet and boy  miles 2 go   Aug-13-08 01:59 PM   #143 
  - There is a difference  atreides1   Aug-13-08 01:33 PM   #94 
  - How about Michelle Malkin?  asksam   Aug-13-08 03:30 PM   #246 
     - She's just trying to gain acceptance by the reich-wing. Doesn't she realize she isn't white  Dollface   Aug-14-08 05:46 PM   #539 
  - this election year, I have a bad feeling  carlyhippy   Aug-13-08 01:19 PM   #64 
  - Turning back?  WriteDown   Aug-13-08 01:22 PM   #71 
  - good point..  carlyhippy   Aug-13-08 01:25 PM   #73 
  - Bad feeling seconded  hamsterjill   Aug-13-08 02:23 PM   #172 
     - Step away from the computer, people, and breathe.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 02:35 PM   #188 
        - THANK YOU!!!!!  King Sandbox   Aug-13-08 03:38 PM   #253 
        - Just expressing a concern.  hamsterjill   Aug-13-08 04:12 PM   #290 
  - Oh Good God... but why? WHY?  ailsagirl   Aug-13-08 01:28 PM   #81 
  - Time we start shooting back!  HEyHEY   Aug-13-08 01:30 PM   #87 
  - Only after you rub that bears belly.  Dr.Phool   Aug-13-08 02:00 PM   #145 
  - A nut job who took Limpball's advice?  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 01:33 PM   #96 
  - Right Wing Terrorism: Hate Radio and Fox News are the Fuel  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 01:33 PM   #97 
  - Sounds like they're becoming very fearful of a November D victory.  flvegan   Aug-13-08 01:33 PM   #98 
  - yes indeed  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 01:35 PM   #100 
  - My god they are going to kill us all  wicket   Aug-13-08 01:35 PM   #103 
  - Don't cry about it  leftynyc   Aug-13-08 03:27 PM   #244 
     - It's a pretty famous line from the JFK assassination (Connally said it)  wicket   Aug-13-08 03:36 PM   #252 
        - Sorry - unaware of the reference  leftynyc   Aug-13-08 03:41 PM   #259 
           - No worries  wicket   Aug-13-08 03:56 PM   #277 
  - My God...  redqueen   Aug-13-08 01:38 PM   #109 
  - I am hearing terrible news...  HerbieHeadhunter   Aug-13-08 01:42 PM   #115 
  - Oh no  ailsagirl   Aug-13-08 01:45 PM   #119 
  - Not confirmed. 51-year-old shooter is dead.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 02:45 PM   #206 
     - Unfortunately, it is confirmed...  HerbieHeadhunter   Aug-13-08 04:16 PM   #294 
  - And if the shooter was a PUMA inspired Hillbot, then what? /nt  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 01:50 PM   #128 
  - Then he was a criminal  Bluzmann57   Aug-13-08 01:52 PM   #133 
     - Yes, I understand that  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 02:11 PM   #165 
  - Wonder what this means?  MadrasT   Aug-13-08 01:50 PM   #129 
  - Rumor also had it that he lost his job  B2G   Aug-13-08 01:56 PM   #140 
  - then why not shoot him at the dealership?  TrogL   Aug-13-08 02:01 PM   #147 
  - Uh, because he wasn't *there*?  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:03 PM   #154 
     - Why wasn't he there?  Zevon fan   Aug-13-08 07:16 PM   #387 
        - Because he was elsewhere?  theboss   Aug-13-08 07:23 PM   #388 
           - But where was elsewhere and why wasn't elsewhere there instead of elsewhere?  Zevon fan   Aug-13-08 07:47 PM   #394 
  - It also says Bill Gwatney didn't make it... he's dead.  btmlndfrmr   Aug-13-08 02:01 PM   #148 
  - What???  MaineDem   Aug-13-08 03:32 PM   #250 
     - here  ailsagirl   Aug-13-08 04:26 PM   #301 
  - Mob mentality is a scary thing....  WriteDown   Aug-13-08 02:04 PM   #156 
  - well lots of people lose their jobs and it is a devastating situation to be in  nc4bo   Aug-13-08 02:06 PM   #158 
  - Gwatney is also a businessman  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:09 PM   #161 
  - k, thanks - it's making some sense now. nt  nc4bo   Aug-13-08 02:11 PM   #164 
  - It became known as the party that loese jobs since  TOJ   Aug-13-08 03:40 PM   #256 
  - part and parcel of why message boards exist.  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 02:10 PM   #163 
     - Oh I've speculated  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:14 PM   #167 
        - rather inconsequential as it carries no legal authority...  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 02:19 PM   #170 
           - I never said it did  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:24 PM   #175 
              - Really? Then why wasn't his employer the target?  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 02:34 PM   #184 
              - I answered your qestion down there n/t  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:35 PM   #186 
              - Nah, just everyone above post 133  snooper2   Aug-13-08 02:37 PM   #193 
              - Thank god I'm below the line  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:45 PM   #207 
              - Mere speculation...  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 03:46 PM   #267 
  - Answered my own question, I think  MadrasT   Aug-13-08 02:02 PM   #151 
  - It wouldn't be Dobbins  Stewie   Aug-13-08 02:14 PM   #168 
     - Thx  MadrasT   Aug-13-08 02:30 PM   #181 
  - A disciple of Sean Hannity & Rush Limbaugh  David Zephyr   Aug-13-08 02:08 PM   #160 
  - you have evidence to back that up?  onenote   Aug-13-08 02:20 PM   #171 
     - Evidence?  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:25 PM   #177 
     - Thank you  Stewie   Aug-13-08 02:26 PM   #179 
        - So tell me, if he didn't think democrats were responsible for his job loss  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 02:32 PM   #183 
        - One more time  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:34 PM   #185 
        - Police have confirmed, he was not employed by Gwatney  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 05:20 PM   #336 
        - Did you actually read any of the posts in this thread?  onenote   Aug-13-08 02:39 PM   #198 
        - I stopped after awhile, then came back and was reading backward  notadmblnd   Aug-13-08 02:48 PM   #212 
        - If it's true  Stewie   Aug-13-08 02:40 PM   #203 
        - too bad right wingers and conservatives have such a bad track record  fascisthunter   Aug-14-08 07:50 PM   #542 
  - FUCKING REPUBLICANS AND RW , THEY ARE NAZI PARTY  hasssan1   Aug-13-08 02:36 PM   #191 
  - we have no idea yet who this guy is. Lets reserve judgement until we get the facts. n/t  Danieljay   Aug-13-08 02:38 PM   #194 
  - Is this another terrorist attack from the conservative right?  Wizard777   Aug-13-08 02:37 PM   #192 
  - Read the thread...  snooper2   Aug-13-08 02:39 PM   #196 
  - I have and found nothing but supposition. Anything more concrete yet?  Wizard777   Aug-13-08 02:48 PM   #211 
  - If so, why would he have threatened employees at the Arkansas State Baptist Convention?  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 02:57 PM   #220 
     - Maybe he's a Neocon. The old conservatives are the new liberals to them.  Wizard777   Aug-13-08 03:22 PM   #233 
        - Or a Freemason  slackmaster   Aug-13-08 04:06 PM   #284 
  - Let's wait for more details.  seawolf   Aug-13-08 02:38 PM   #195 
  - CNN just reported the suspect has died...  angstlessk   Aug-13-08 02:40 PM   #200 
  - Damn it! n/t  MaineDem   Aug-13-08 02:45 PM   #208 
  - CNN now reporting shooter is dead n/t  B2G   Aug-13-08 02:40 PM   #202 
  - Presser scheduled for 3p CDT.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 02:47 PM   #209 
  - Police now say Gwatney SHOOTER has died.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 02:50 PM   #214 
  - Suspect has died  Stewie   Aug-13-08 02:53 PM   #217 
  - So now we will never know why  Marrah_G   Aug-13-08 03:16 PM   # 
     - Maybe he left a note or told someone, or something  slackmaster   Aug-13-08 03:26 PM   #242 
        - Maybe he's got Hannity & Coulter books in his pickup.  mwb970   Aug-13-08 05:33 PM   #345 
           - Nothing would surprise me at this point  slackmaster   Aug-13-08 06:07 PM   #367 
  - Here's hoping he can make a recovery.  King Sandbox   Aug-13-08 02:54 PM   #218 
  - 3p presser didn't reveal much more than what we already know.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 03:16 PM   #224 
  - You mean the cops were Dems, too?  Dreamer Tatum   Aug-13-08 03:18 PM   #228 
  - Just the start  penndragon69   Aug-13-08 03:18 PM   #227 
  - Unfortunately, it will continue...  jimlup   Aug-13-08 03:32 PM   #249 
  - There's no evidence that this had anything to do with politics. (n/t)  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 03:44 PM   #263 
  - As of 4:40 PM EST, there is no evidence that this shooting was motivated by politics.  King Sandbox   Aug-13-08 03:40 PM   #257 
  - That happens on most any of these types of threads- and it's not just about politics  depakid   Aug-13-08 03:43 PM   #261 
  - The fact that it was in a political office leads one to think it may be political  MaineDem   Aug-13-08 03:43 PM   #262 
  - That's about it. It could be political,  King Sandbox   Aug-13-08 03:45 PM   #265 
     - If it was a stranger who had a random snap, then politics would likely play a factor  brentspeak   Aug-13-08 04:32 PM   #306 
  - After the UU shooting last week  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 03:51 PM   #273 
  - It's just lame, for a lack of a better term.  King Sandbox   Aug-13-08 03:54 PM   #274 
  - I imagine...  LanternWaste   Aug-13-08 03:55 PM   #275 
  - I understand that some people come here, safely anonymous, and post  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 04:04 PM   #282 
     - I think the target demographics are completely different  LanternWaste   Aug-14-08 07:24 AM   #429 
  - Well, by the very nature of going into a political office  stanwyck   Aug-13-08 04:06 PM   #285 
  - Not necessarily. Maybe at first blush, but the analysis doesn't stop there.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 04:12 PM   #291 
  - The LRPD confirmed that the shooter didn't know Gwatney beforehand...  Cooley Hurd   Aug-13-08 05:00 PM   #321 
  - People get sicker everyday, it seems. n/t  vickiss   Aug-13-08 03:41 PM   #260 
  - Bummer. I hope Mr. Gwatney makes a prompt and complete recovery.  slackmaster   Aug-13-08 03:44 PM   #264 
  - Suspect is probably on FR  AnnieBW   Aug-13-08 03:58 PM   #278 
  - Did you just now come out of a coma, or can you not read?  Dreamer Tatum   Aug-13-08 04:04 PM   #280 
  - Prayers and light to him. What a terrible , terrible thing.! I hope he recovers quickly and  saracat   Aug-13-08 04:04 PM   #281 
  - Looks like he has died  maddezmom   Aug-13-08 04:11 PM   #289 
  - Scared level= 0  RUMMYisFROSTED   Aug-13-08 04:10 PM   #286 
  - He's dead  high density   Aug-13-08 04:10 PM   #287 
  - Crap  slackmaster   Aug-13-08 04:11 PM   #288 
  - Wounded suspect in Arkansas shooting dies after chase  maddezmom   Aug-13-08 04:14 PM   #293 
  - I guess the country thieves are saving the anthrax for bigger fish. nt  valerief   Aug-13-08 04:18 PM   #295 
  - The Clintons confirm he has died  Hyper_Eye   Aug-13-08 04:23 PM   #298 
  - Sadly ... He has died  DogPoundPup   Aug-13-08 04:24 PM   #299 
  - More about state Sen. Gwatney  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 04:24 PM   #300 
  - Not a former Gwatney employee  MadrasT   Aug-13-08 04:26 PM   #302 
  - LRPD just announced that shooter was NOT a former Gwatney Chevrolet employee.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 04:27 PM   #303 
  - He died, just announced on MSNBC  DainBramaged   Aug-13-08 04:32 PM   #305 
  - Another outlet's version.  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 04:33 PM   #307 
  - I wish they'd name the scuzzball who murdered Gwatney already  magellan   Aug-13-08 04:45 PM   #314 
  - Ain't it strange how...  vinylsolution   Aug-13-08 04:34 PM   #308 
  - Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but  muddleofpudd   Aug-13-08 04:40 PM   #310 
     - My condolences to you and to all Arkansas DUers...  Cooley Hurd   Aug-13-08 05:03 PM   #324 
  - The Manchurian Candidate. Psy-Ops killers will go after Super Delegates  valerief   Aug-13-08 04:39 PM   #309 
  - OBVIOULSLY, ONE OF THOSE PERSONS WHO IS MORALLY SUPERIOR TO SECULAR  JohnWxy   Aug-13-08 04:46 PM   #315 
  - Someone leaving the scene in a pick-up in Arkansas, how original  syberlion   Aug-13-08 04:50 PM   #317 
  - The Republicans have declared war on us n/t  Joey Liberal   Aug-13-08 05:08 PM   #328 
  - No, the ruling class has. Again. nt  valerief   Aug-13-08 05:19 PM   #332 
     - The Ruling Class Uses Rush and Friends to Brainwash Idiot Right Wingers  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 05:33 PM   #346 
        - The ruling class has Faux News and........  Joey Liberal   Aug-13-08 08:36 PM   #403 
           - Tellin' the truth there.  knixphan   Aug-14-08 01:45 PM   #536 
  - He didn't make it.  yellerpup   Aug-13-08 05:19 PM   #334 
  - I'm horrified.  Iris   Aug-13-08 05:28 PM   #343 
  - Me, too.  yellerpup   Aug-13-08 07:39 PM   #392 
     - maybe we could start by not attacking each other  Iris   Aug-15-08 04:18 PM   #555 
  - Damn it  mikeargo   Aug-13-08 06:15 PM   #375 
  - Heartbreaking.  yellerpup   Aug-13-08 07:40 PM   #393 
  - oh wow  helderheid   Aug-13-08 08:01 PM   #397 
     - ...  yellerpup   Aug-13-08 09:44 PM   #413 
  - My disgust with the right wing grows DAILY...  NM Independent   Aug-13-08 05:20 PM   #335 
  - A terrible day.  SalmonChantedEvening   Aug-13-08 05:28 PM   #344 
  - Right Wing HATERS like hannity and o'reilly have started...  nomaco-10   Aug-13-08 05:46 PM   #351 
  - I find the whole story odd.  WIllo   Aug-13-08 05:50 PM   #352 
  - so sad  CitizenPatriot   Aug-13-08 05:51 PM   #354 
  - From Little Rock - more details  LonelyLRLiberal   Aug-13-08 05:53 PM   #356 
  - I know his name. Mr. Blackwater. nt  valerief   Aug-13-08 05:55 PM   #357 
  - Suspect killed when police shot him in standoff  ohio2007   Aug-13-08 06:05 PM   #364 
  - At least one repug already  frogmarch   Aug-13-08 06:06 PM   #365 
  - self-delete  fascisthunter   Aug-13-08 06:10 PM   #372 
  - I would have done it too...  jmowreader   Aug-13-08 06:12 PM   #374 
  - Like the guy that took out those Unitarians in Tennessee  Ken Burch   Aug-13-08 06:16 PM   #377 
  - She did the right thing IMHO  Geek_Girl   Aug-13-08 06:16 PM   #376 
     - I agree.  LonelyLRLiberal   Aug-13-08 06:32 PM   #381 
  - He said he lost his job  ohio2007   Aug-13-08 06:43 PM   #382 
  - Johnson fired from Target this morning..  chat_noir   Aug-13-08 09:22 PM   #408 
  - Shoot before you know -  rayofreason   Aug-13-08 07:07 PM   #385 
  - The headline was "Gwatney Killing NOT Politically Motivated " but police say that's inaccurate  Kire   Aug-13-08 07:11 PM   #386 
     - Shoot before you know...  rayofreason   Aug-13-08 07:31 PM   #391 
     - Gwatney also was a superdelegate to the Democratic National Convention  ohio2007   Aug-13-08 07:47 PM   #395 
  - So weird...so this guy was just randomly walking into businesses and pointing guns?  theboss   Aug-13-08 07:27 PM   #390 
  - Here's an interesting choice of words  ChoralScholar   Aug-13-08 09:41 PM   #412 
     - VERY interesting indeed. "The chairman" isn't how you'd refer to him  benEzra   Aug-14-08 10:32 PM   #547 
  - Is it me or most American psychos are Republicans?  jeff30997   Aug-13-08 08:07 PM   #399 
  - One must be nuts to be a republican n/t  Joey Liberal   Aug-13-08 08:37 PM   #404 
  - Eric Rudoplh  LiberalEsto   Aug-14-08 07:58 AM   #510 
     - Another one!  jeff30997   Aug-14-08 10:56 AM   #528 
  - AP - Bill Gwatney, Ark. Dem. chairman, shot dead at 48  Dover   Aug-13-08 08:27 PM   #401 
  - excellent obituary  Kire   Aug-13-08 08:50 PM   #406 
  - They have both been pronounced dead, shooter and victim.. Get hate radio and tv off the air  bjobotts   Aug-14-08 01:51 AM   #421 
  - DNC Statement on Passing of Arkansas Democratic Party Chair Bill Gwatney  MaineDem   Aug-14-08 05:49 AM   #426 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-14-08 06:28 AM   #427 
  - Clintons: Arkansas Democratic leader killed  sinkingfeeling   Aug-14-08 07:52 AM   #430 
  - WTF?????????????  Feeney2   Aug-14-08 07:52 AM   #431 
  - He was assassinated.  geomon666   Aug-14-08 07:52 AM   #432 
  - I expect  Staph   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #434 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - assassinator  youngharry   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #479 
     - Strange assassinations and suicides  youngharry   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #481 
        - So, young harry  JoFerret   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #485 
  - You have the righties here telling us that he worked for him  notadmblnd   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #435 
  - they are convincing anyone but themselves  fascisthunter   Aug-14-08 07:52 PM   #543 
  - Bingo  malaise   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Actually he was an employee of a car dealership the party head owned  proud2Blib   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - police are saying suspect wasn't a former employee  maddezmom   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #474 
  - Wrong... The AR papers are reporting he was fired from Target  hlthe2b   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #507 
  - Agreed. This is right-wing terrorism, pure and simple. nt  mistertrickster   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #484 
  - terrible news. Rest in Peace. n/t  bear425   Aug-14-08 07:52 AM   #433 
  - Police have confirmed that the shooter didn't know Gwatney beforehand...  Cooley Hurd   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #436 
  - You think he was on Free Republic, Stormfront, Little Green Footballs, or all of the above? n/t  IanDB1   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
     - My guess is his trailer's littered with Coulter, Hannity & Savage books...  Cooley Hurd   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
        - If it is  AnnieBW   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #486 
        - Democrats live in trailers (my mother included) as well, you know.  MrsGrumpy   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #491 
           - Hi Mrs G. I'm sorry, no offense intended...  Cooley Hurd   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #499 
  - I wonder if the gunman was another fundy freakazoid...  GoddessOfGuinness   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #437 
  - that's terrible news confernce on here now  cal04   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #438 
  - something wrong with the link...  ailsagirl   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #442 
  - sorry ailsagirl, fixed  cal04   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #451 
     - Thank you  ailsagirl   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Is the Clinton family the head of the Democratic Party  goclark   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #489 
     - Dear God, even this is an excuse to snidely insult the Clintons.  aquart   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #495 
        - Well, at least it took 59 posts  mitchtv   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #498 
        - noticed that too, huh?  TankLV   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #503 
        - It never ends  leftynyc   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #508 
  - Can we score another kill for the RW pundits who screech and preach:  indepat   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #439 
  - Bill Gwatney was a Democrat, but he was no liberal (as understood here)  muddleofpudd   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #444 
  - You have to understand the mind (if we can call it that) of a rightie.  geomon666   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #447 
  - Exactly! To the RW mind, the man was a socialist  treestar   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #496 
  - My mistake thinking a liberal is anyone left of far, no extreme right,  indepat   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #452 
  - The the Freepers and Conservatards anyone to the left of Hitler is a Liberal.  IanDB1   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
     - ...and THEN the righties start in with the "Hitler was a socialist" bullshit  Ken Burch   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #478 
  - Michelle Malkin did it... she admitted it on her blog.  asksam   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #497 
  - Maybe FISA is a good idea. Democrats can use it to spy on RW nutjob terrorists  Zorra   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #440 
  - I'm just numb...  ailsagirl   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #441 
  - Very sad  mvd   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #443 
  - The Arkansas Democrats website:  Judi Lynn   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #445 
  - crazy sadness -- right wing nutjobs are everywhere now  CitizenPatriot   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #446 
  - It's another reason why I won't go for a total gun ban  mvd   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #450 
  - I'm sorry, sinkingfeeling.  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #448 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #449 
  - They haven't been in Arkansas for 20 years? Nonsense.  Bluebear   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #454 
  - They knew his father, Harold Gwatney. Big-time businessman and Democratic contributor  muddleofpudd   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Not everything the Clintons do is a cheap political ploy.  IanDB1   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Gee maybe they knew him and he supported her bid?  chimpsrsmarter   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Oh no that can't be it.  ronnykmarshall   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #473 
  - The Clinton's know this man very well.  cat_girl25   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Maybe because he was a FUCKING FRIEND!!!!!  ronnykmarshall   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Unreal, awful  48percenter   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #453 
  - More information from an Arkansas blog. The victim was a former state senator.  Judi Lynn   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - condolences to his family  fascisthunter   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #476 
  - May he rest in peace (the victim).  Maat   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Thanks for all you do, Maat. Please be careful. n/t  Doremus   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #492 
     - And, thank YOU for the kind words (n/t)!  Maat   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #502 
  - Dupe  Truth2Tell   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - They mean "assassinated", don't they?  kestrel91316   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - He was a strong Clinton supporter  wvbygod   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   # 
  - Do you *really* want to go there?  CakeGrrl   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #475 
  - You're number one in my book  XRubicon   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #487 
  - kick-- who cares if mccain's wife is in the hospital? this is far more  ailsagirl   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #477 
  - I had JUST got done reading the thread linked inside, then saw this one:  Triana   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #480 
  - kick  ailsagirl   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #482 
  - So tragic. RIP  emilyg   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #483 
  - I am appalled beyond words.  bitchkitty   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #488 
  - The Hate Talk Express strikes again!  BRLIB   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #490 
  - I just took a look at TV-- the only mention was a banner at the  ailsagirl   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #493 
  - No time for stupidity here. A committed Dem was killed by a deranged person. Not political.  faygokid   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #494 
  - Well, he asked to see the victim by name apperently,  realpolitik   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #500 
  - The shooter had been fired from his job a Target  blogslut   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #501 
  - I've always wondered why nobody has ever shot up the signery at a Target store  slackmaster   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #504 
  - Arkansas? Nothing sub rosa here, move along.  judasdisney   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #505 
  - No, there isn't -- Jeebus  LostinVA   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #509 
  - Kick. This could be another Unitarian Church  Ian_rd   Aug-14-08 07:54 AM   #506 
  - Man fired from job kills Ark. Democratic chairman  BR_Parkway   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #455 
  - The guy probably believed the "Democrats make you lose your job" bullshit.  Smith_3   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #456 
  - "is losing"? That ship sailed a long time ago.  Somawas   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #457 
  - Just like the guy shooting up the church the other week. I'm all about some free  BR_Parkway   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #458 
     - why is it that Republicans believe that $$$ is free speech?  zbdent   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #466 
        - Because Republicans put a price on Everything  atreides1   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #468 
  - Sounds like the graffiti got cleaned up right quick  Cal Carpenter   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #459 
  - I suspect this shooting is similar in motive to the church shooting in Knoxville TN.  fasttense   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #460 
  - I'm no lawyer, but....  PaulHo   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #467 
  - Would be interesting to know what it was - enough to call the police  muriel_volestrangler   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #461 
  - So, what was the graffiti?  CanonRay   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #462 
  - Probably some right wing nonsense.  Sentinel Chicken   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #463 
  - Just found this - Day of Rage Subsequent to the Gwatney's shooting, Johnson had reportedly told a  BR_Parkway   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #464 
  - OK, that's...peculiar.  tanyev   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #472 
  - Not sure. But I bet the Manchurian sorority is involved.  Dollface   Aug-14-08 12:09 PM   #533 
  - That information is 100% bizarre  slackmaster   Aug-14-08 10:38 AM   #526 
  - LA Times did a little investigating  Kire   Aug-14-08 11:38 PM   #550 
  - Let try not to jump to conclusions  whrab   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #465 
  - It is difficult to know what he was thinking  gratuitous   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #470 
  - Sounds like he was in a very abnormal mental state  LeftishBrit   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #469 
  - True.....  WriteDown   Aug-14-08 09:12 AM   #514 
  - what is with these assholes blaming Democrats/liberals for losing jobs  JI7   Aug-14-08 07:53 AM   #471 
  - Arkansas Democratic Party chairman is gunned down  apnu   Aug-14-08 09:23 AM   #515 
  - graffiti at Target?  Bozita   Aug-14-08 09:23 AM   #516 
  - "This hallway to too god-damn narrow" and "sorority b------s"  annabanana   Aug-14-08 10:07 AM   #523 
     - There was definitely something very wrong with that man  slackmaster   Aug-14-08 12:26 PM   #534 
  - I wonder what the graffiti said  Dollface   Aug-14-08 09:45 AM   #520 
     - I'm glad I'm not the only one here who is eccentric enough to wonder about that  slackmaster   Aug-14-08 09:57 AM   #521 
        - "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"  jeff30997   Aug-14-08 11:24 AM   #532 
  - I have to step in and have my say since I have been targeted before.  demgurl   Aug-14-08 10:40 AM   #527 
  - "if I did not like this country I should move to another."  jeff30997   Aug-14-08 11:05 AM   #529 
  - Police Find Note Bearing Gwatney's Name, Phone Number in Gunman's Home  muddleofpudd   Aug-14-08 01:40 PM   #535 
  - Interesting article.  senseandsensibility   Aug-14-08 02:13 PM   #537 
     - "I suppose the keys are from vehicles he bought from the victim?"  muddleofpudd   Aug-14-08 02:20 PM   #538 
        - They should count the pills to see if he stopped taking them...  Cooley Hurd   Aug-14-08 07:03 PM   #540 
  - Why is there all this evidence of right-wing advocation of violence --- and nothing being done????  defendandprotect   Aug-14-08 08:11 PM   #545 
  - very good question... maybe it's time we demanded something be done  fascisthunter   Aug-15-08 05:11 PM   #556 
  - Google "Morris Dees" for exemplary civil suits bankrupting the hate mongers.  L. Coyote   Aug-16-08 12:59 PM   #559 
  - Well we now know the M$M is owned by the repugs as there is/was no coverage of  Franc_Lee   Aug-15-08 05:25 PM   #557 
  - the deafening silence of the media on this story makes me think that  brandnewlaptop   Aug-16-08 12:55 PM   #558 
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ (in Arkansas)
Source: KATV

Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ
Shots fired within office at Democratic Party HQ, victim is a white male who police say is in a serious condition. Witnesses say suspect asked to see the chairman, was taken into the building and then 3 gunshots were heard. Suspect is currently being chased by police in Grant County.

Read more: http://www.katv.com /
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ - Suspect Believed Dead
A shooting occured Tuesday at the Arkansas Democractic Party Headquarters leaving one victim - a white male - in serious condition.

Witnesses say the suspect asked to see the Party chairman, entered the building and some time later three gunshots were heard.

The suspect fled by vehicle, was chased by police and is now believed dead.



http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0808/543890.html
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. The AP story says that the suspect is in custody.
I guess we'll know the truth soon enough.
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
420. This may yet turn out to be
political, but it's sounding more like a guy who just snapped. He was fired from his job earlier in the day after behaving erratically, and after the shooting went down the street to the Arkansas Baptist offices, where a quick thinking employee ushered him out before he could do any harm. Pending more information, this guy's target list seems non-ideological.
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norepubsin08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
327. Yahoo is saying that
The State Democratic Chair has died....it's time to prosecute Rush, Hannity, Coulter et al as co defendants in this!!!
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #327
368. I don't know what you could charge them with.

They can maybe be sued for criminal incitement, but the success of that is in doubt, and the last thing our party needs right now is to make right-wing hosts into martyrs when its our people who are getting murdered.

Moreover, those scumbags never said people should shoot Democrats, and they don't lead an organization that does it. I doubt very seriously that they want Liberals and Democrats murdered (except Ann Coulter has said we should be tried for treason, which is punishable by death).

First, let's hear more about the perp.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #368
422. Free speech does not include inciting people to commit hate crimes
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #422
423. Just like it doesn't give you the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #423
548. Except in this case, the theater would always be crowded. (eom)
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norepubsin08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #368
518. How about
conspiracy in an assassination, aiding and abetting, accessory to murder, incitement of violence, voter suppression, criminal intimidation, illegal use of FCC airwaves, civil right violations, hate crimes, treason for undermining the political process! Usually a good prosecutor could find SOMETHING to charge and make it stick!!!
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #518
549. I wouldn't be too careless about opening up the arsenal of charges to suppress speech.

You should be afraid of where it would be used next, especially after the B-Administration killed every other right. Say the wrong thing and you might disappear.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sadly Inevitable.
There will be more. That said, it is a sad commentary that such brutal events may serve to break up the complacency and magical thinking in our own ranks.

I repeat: There will be more of these horrible events between now and November and if we win, after as well.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
162. certainly feels like a nation divided; even Mukasey DoJ can't prosecute partisan law breakers
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #162
424. It's not a nation divided, it's a nation wher dissent is called treason
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #424
425. Not a nation divided, a nation held hostage by a few who cheated to gain power.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
166. Spot on
I think this is totally accurate. But no one seems to take these threats seriously.

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. These talk radio hosts need to be stopped.
They are pushing fragile people over the edge with their hateful bile.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Oh please
You got the facts? Let's share them if so. Could be another jealous ex with a deathwish.

Some radio hosts suck badly but I'll be damn if I will use them as a scapegoat for
some sick fuck out to harm others. I'd start by blaming the shooter and go from there.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. RW hate radio has been telling their listeners to take out Dems for years.
You really don't think that has an effect?
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CrazyDude Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
72. Name one specific instance of a talk radio host advocating violence against Democrats n/t
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. Michael Savage on a daily basis.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #78
102. thank you
the 'pro-lifers' effectively took out some clinics by killing the doctors; and they were often exhorted to do so by the talking haters on TV, radio and the internet.

Those who think that the blame/hate sewage on the airwaves has no effect or consequence are delusional.

Fragile psyches, easy guns and hate speech ...
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #78
235. It looks like all the FP came over to stick up for this kind of action..even
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:25 PM by movonne
if he was due to some other kind of lover revenge...the RW talk and the media encourage this hate talk..
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #235
258. Yes, it's the same response as when the Knoxville UU Church Shooting occurred
This one seems more like a workplace issue-the shooter was laid off. We know for a fact that the Knoxville shooting was motivated by hate talk.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #235
313. I was wondering where these aliens came from!! n/t
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
383. limbaugh on a daily basis.
Overtly AND covertly.

It stems from the general, ongoing demonizing and demeaning and belittling Dems and liberals, calling us names, sneering at us, making us out to be ungodly, subhuman, traitors, terrorist-lovers, America-haters, baby-killers, feminazis (ever heard THAT one?), commies, socialists, fill-in-the-blank-heres. That starts to get to people - it gets into their minds and predisposes them toward hating and wishing to persecute or sequester or otherwise rid themselves of liberals, "a national blight." And it's okay to think so because limbaugh said so, and limbaugh's big and rich and famous so he must be doing something "right", 'eh?

Most of his listeners and followers merely listen to be amused or to feel validation (like the weenie on the playground who befriends the big behemoth). Relatively speaking, they're harmless.

But there's that small segment. There's a small segment in virtually every population - the teeny head or tail end of the snake - that isn't harmless. Sometimes they take as gospel what these assholes are saying. And if they're fired up on the proverbial hate-radio steroids, who knows what they might do?

And remember, limbaugh's already exhorted his dittoheads to create mayhem and mischief in Denver when the Dems are in convention. References to riots and overturned cars - people do tend to get hurt in those things.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #72
107. why, because you're so damn lazy to look it up on google yourself, CrazyDude
1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus living fossils so we will never forget what these people stood for."

2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."

3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him."

4. John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."

5. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."

6. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

7. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."


That's just SOME of the spewed filth of the hundreds of incidents where they've advocated violence towards liberals, Gays, Democrats, and these are just SOME of the better known repubs doing it - there's hundreds smaller swine of the GOP who've said the same.

You, CrazyDude, are lazy.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. no because he's full of shit
anyone on the internet has the capability and ease to know what we already know...
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #110
389. the capability and ease to know what we already know
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #107
199. Look at the post count. He may well be a troll.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #199
229. may well be?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM by Truth2Tell
There are two piling on here. Both have been glaringly obvious for some time. Now rushing to the defense of their Rush.

I hope the pizzas are in the oven.

Edit to add: turns out it's a flying monkey attack. A whole swarm, not just two. My bad. Evidently all ya gotta do is besmirch their heroes and they can't help but out themselves.
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #229
380. I sorta figured....was trying to stay "opn minded" How ironic! LOL
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #229
513. looks like that pizza's been cooked.
;-)
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raincity_calling Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #107
222. RW hosts and their hatred always reminds me
of a scene from the movie "Hotel Rwanda." The Hutu militia radio broadcasts, calling the Tutsi people cockroaches and that the cockroaches must be killed. It was chilling. And the hate coming forth from Ann Coulter, Savage, et al is no different, and it has the same effect - generates hatred and ultimately violence.
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gratefultobelib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #107
410. I am so damned naive. I sincerely didn't know this kind of hate talk was going on. Of course,
it's because I never listen to or read these people. Thank you for the timely research. I'm going to be using this.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #72
113. Are you kidding with that question?
8643
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #72
114. Michael Savage Wiener..
"You will not have a nation unless you awaken to the reality that America has become pacified; America has become feminized; and America is being compromised from without and within," Savage warns. "You cannot let them get away with this. Can America be saved? Is it too late? I believe that with God's will and with your determination to confront the mental disorder of liberalism whenever and wherever it is found, America can both survive and thrive."

In so many words, that statement is advocating violence against Liberals and gays.

Of course they never quite say "Kill the Liberals", well Coulter does, but Limbaugh and others have been giving listeners the "wink-wink" for years.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #114
544. So . . . you can't show a woman's breast on TV, but you can get on the radio and
advocate murder of liberals . . .

Where in the hell are the Democrats --- ????
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desktop Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #72
118. Are you kidding or are you in the wrong website
"Ill tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo every
filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress."
Sean Hannity

"To fight only the al-Qaeda scum is to miss the terrorist network
operating within our own borders... Who are these traitors? Every
rotten radical left-winger in this country, that's who."
Michael Savage

"Liberalism is the greatest threat this country faces."
Rush Limbaugh

"It is not a stretch to say that MoveOn is the new Klan."
Bill OReilly

"I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I
could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it.
No, I think I could."
Glenn Beck

"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically
intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed,
too."
Ann Coulter

"The Islamofascists are actually campaigning for the election of
Democrats. Islamofascists from Ahmadinejad to al-Zawahiri, Oba --
Osama bin Laden, whoever, are constantly issuing Democrat talking
points."
Rush Limbaugh

"There are things in life worth fighting and dying for and one of em
is making sure Nancy Pelosi doesnt become the speaker."
Sean Hannity


"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough around so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for."

Rush Limbaugh

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ForeignSpectator Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #118
243. OMG, how can an entire country put up with such filth?! Just take glenn beck, he is on cnn, right?
Such utter stupidity, absurdity and hatred in all these statements and NO consequences whatsoever?!?
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #118
304. Thanks, desktop. Scary
Where did you find these quotes?
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desktop Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #304
312. answer
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #72
124. Rush Limbaugh
"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus living fossils so we will never forget what these people stood for."
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #72
126. Liddy and plenty others during the Clinton/Reno years
of course, they never say "go out and kill dems" directly, but there is a phone book's worth of loaded codewords, subtext, and calls for action that can only be interpreted one way
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
139. Ann Coulter, with her "baseball bat" quote
Ann Coulter on tour: "I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days" to talk to liberals.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410070004
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #139
398. Fine Ann
You bring your baseball bat - I'll bring my Ruger .357 magnum.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #72
178. Ever right winger's favorite son Rush Limpballs
Riots in Denver, the Democrat Convention would see to it that we dont elect Democrats, Limbaugh said during Wednesdays radio broadcast. He then went on to say thats the best thing that could happen to the country

Limbaugh said with massive riots in Denver, which he called Operation Chaos, the people on the far left would look bad.

We do, hopefully, the right thing for the sake of this country. Were the only one in charge of our affairs. We dont farm out our defense if we elect Democrats and riots in Denver, at the Democratic Convention will see to it we dont elect Democrats. And thats the best damn thing that can happen to this country, as far as I can think, Limbaugh saidRush
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hasssan1 Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #178
205. Somone should Arrest This motherfucker
For advocating Riot , violence , threat against public safety and so many other criminal charges.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #205
254. Let me tell you: ALL of them would be arrested if they said THOSE things on Dutch airwaves...
We have laws saying you can't "spread hatred against" or "intentionally and gravely insult" specific groups of people. If you would be a Dutch host and you would tell your listeners to 'take out' liberals on a daily basis, you would be thrown of the airwaves and into jail.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #254
268. I thank God that we have freedom of speech embedded in our Constitution.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #268
297. I thank God the Dutch understand yelling 'kill the liberals!' is NOT freedom of speech.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:24 PM by DutchLiberal
Really, what IS the difference between Limbaugh and Savage (et al.) repeating over and over again liberals are evil and should be 'taken out'/'destroyed'... and the Rwanda radio stations which said the same about the Tutsis?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #268
333. I Love How the Right Wing Tries to Hide Behind Rights
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #333
552. Yeah, just when you thought the Constitution was only "a goddamned piece of paper"...
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 12:30 PM by DutchLiberal
I'm a fan of irony, but those guys are carrying it a little too far...
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:13 PM
Original message
That is because the Dutch clearly remember
The last time hate speech was used to slaughter millions of people.
we seem to have forgotten all of that.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #254
329. Goed zo!
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #329
331. LOL! Dank je!
Are you Dutch? Or do you or your family come from Holland?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #331
396. I married a man from there and lived there with him for a couple years. Our son was born in Utrecht.
:hi:
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #396
551. Utrecht? That's were I live!
Only now I see your username is also Dutch. :blush:
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #254
348. Stop making me envious of the Netherlands!
My 14-year-old niece keeps asking me "Why are people so much smarter in Europe?" What am I supposed to answer?
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #348
553. I don't think we are. If we were, we wouldn't keep electing politicians who keep screwing us...
It's a universal thing, I guess. :shrug:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #72
223. You're still here?? Wow.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #72
248. Go fuck yourself
:hi:
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #72
255. Thursday, Jan. 26, 2006
"We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee," Coulter said.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/01/27/coult...

Lose your bridge to foreclosure yet?
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
283. rush, orieley, coulter, dobson
they all do. from time to time.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #72
292. Michael Reagan offered to pay for the bullets for those who would
take out liberals.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #72
319. Wow, are you on another planet or what?
They've been doing this on a regular basis since at least JFK was in office.

It's even worse since the rightwing dominates the talk show air waves these days. Since 9/11, America has been poisoned on a regular basis by the violence embedded into right-wing language on the airwaves.

Often we hear of nuts who are fans of these right wing talk show hosts, and they end up being messed up so much from listening to the right wing garbage-baiting against Democrats, liberals, ect., they eventually go on killing sprees. It almost always turns out that the guy is a big fan of one or more of these fascist nutballs on the air, like Rush, Savage, O'Reilly, Hannity, et. al.

Keith Olbermann receives envelopes at his home containing white powder (anthrax scare). These were sent by someone who admitted to being an "acolyte" of Michele Malkin and Ann Coulter.

Here's another typical and recent example:

On Sunday, 27 Jul 2008, 58-year-old Jim Adkisson entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church during a childrens performance of the musical Annie Jr. In a guitar case, he carried a shotgun and 76 rounds. Adkisson killed two church members, Greg McKendry (60) and Linda Kraeger (61), and wounded six more before he was wrestled to the ground as he tried to reload. What was Adkissons motive? A report from the local Knoxville news details the findings from Adkisson's home, along with key statements from a document written by Adkisson related to an apparent motive behind the violent attack that rocked the suburban community:

"Adkisson targeted the church, 'because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets.'

I would even have to include right Rev. Pat Robertson's call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez.

See also Daily Kos more instances of rightwing talkshow violence against Democrats:

"When Ann Coulter can talk about poisoning a Supreme Court Justice who isnt sufficiently right wing bat shit insane, when Bill OReilly can talk about al Qaeda coming to bomb San Francisco and that being just peachy with him, when Michele Malkin can incite unhinged followers to target an 11 year old boy and his family over health insurance, when Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and whoever else rails against how Bill and Hillary Clinton are socialist communist pigs that are the root of all evil in this world, when Glenn Beck asks a sitting Congressman to "prove he isnt a terrorist" just because he is Muslim, when the Washington friggin Post spreads lies about Barack Obama based on xenophobia, this type of hatred becomes mainstream."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/1/11117/4376
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #319
522. I saved this quote from a Knoxville newspaper

According to the News-Sentinel, Knoxville police department investigator Steve Still wrote in the search warrant that Jim David Adkisson, the man who was arrested in the rampage, went to the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets."

Adkisson, who had served in the military, said "that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement he would then target those that had voted them in office," the search warrant states. Among the items seized from Adkisson's house were three books: "The O'Reilly Factor," by television commentator Bill O'Reilly; "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder," by radio personality Michael Savage; and "Let Freedom Ring," by political pundit Sean Hannity.

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
325. WOW. Your name says it all.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #72
339. Does advocating the bombing of San Fransisco count?
Dumb ass mutha effer.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #72
341. Rush Limbaugh, calling for riots in Denver...
Michael Savage...(nee Weiner), calling for the beheading of gays.

Limbaugh again, calling for the death of several less than prominant D's after Vince Foster's suicide.


The RW lives on fear, they are always calling for the death of someone, albeit usually in some kind of "code".
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TN al Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #72
359. Rush Limbaugh offered to pay for the first two stitches of any Democrat beaten by a repub.
Chuck Baker wound up Francisco Duran to take shots at the white house. And Jim Adkisson, who shot up a knoxville church, thought that all liberals should be killed because they are ruining America. They found books by Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly at his home and he was a listener to both O'Reilly and Hannity. The list is pretty long.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
361. Name one specific instance of a talk radio host condemning violence against Democrats n/t
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
369. Michael Savage has repeatedly called for Sen. Durbin to be "drug out of the Senate in chains" for...


....what Savage calls "sedition" (quoting an American officer's description of American actions in an official Army report, while debating a bill on the Senate floor).



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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
407. You, my friend, are either hard of hearing
or ignorant! Check out the posts below for your instances. RW hate radio is horrible. It lowers one's IQ just listening to it.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
415. From the drugster limbaugh's lips to your ears:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #415
418. Did we ever settle that question about whether or not Limpballs
--was a pedophile junkie? I saw something about that on those Internets tubes.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #418
541. Unaware of this, sorry...
If his pedophile issue is limited only to looking at stuff online and what he does is all legal-(well we already knew that the man is a sicko)-then I'll not be too down on him all things considered. It is his constant non-stop hate that he spews daily that I take my most serious issue with. However if he were to be busted for being a criminal pedophile then I would like to see him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #72
428. Follow the Link.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #72
519. O'Reilly on a daily basis
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
99. no
I don't.

If you're crazy enough to kill someone because Rush or Ann said to, you are crazy enough to do it all on your own.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
174. BS!!!
Right-wing hate gives the guy a match, a can of gasoline, and for 24/7/365 a year tells him "that building over there is the root of all evil"

Then, when the guy burns the building to the ground, they say; "I have no idea why a person would do such a thing".

Remember, some of the first folks dealt with at Nuremberg were the propagandist.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #174
272. Maybe we need to start reminding the Corpse M$M of this fact,
often and loudly.

They are complete cowards, besides being traitors, every one of them would roll in a minute if they thought "enhanced interrogation", otherwise known as TORTURE, and prison waited for them.

Execution for treason these days, I wonder?
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #174
411. right-wing hate-speak hits my ears too
(and yours) and yet we have burned no buildings to the ground. I read Townhall.com, FreeRepublic and Drudge and yet I have no killed no liberals.

ERGO,

the fault lies with the arsonist, in your analogy, not with the gasbags on the right.

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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
236. Ever see "Hotel Rwanda"?
The Hutus were told to "Kill the Tutsi cockroaches!", and they did. Jozef Goebbels and Julius Streicher dehumanized Jews, comparing them to rats and other vermin, so that the German population would be receptive to having them carted off and packed into cattle cars.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #236
247. What does all of this have to do with today's events?
Based on the information we have, nothing.

Chill, people. Y'all look silly with all of this.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #247
350. I envy your complacency.
To hear what's going on with right-wing radio and to say "Chill, people. Y'all look silly." Wow. That takes some kind of willful blindness! Y'all must be pretty dang laid back.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #236
414. can we not compare everything bad that happens in the world
to the Holocaust?

That was um, kind of an extreme situation. Same with Rwanada. We are a far, far, far, far, far cry from those types of events in this country, in respect to Republicans killing Democrats.

It's ok to be vigilant about hate-speech, but damn people. This is getting out of hand.
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The Hope Mobile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #414
416. This is an exteme situation.
Fascism is fascism. The goals and results are the same.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #99
366. So, if someone on the radio called for everyone to torch YOUR house
You'd be all right with that.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
144. Agreed. Before you can have hateful acts, you have to have hateful speech. nt
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. Right Wing Terrorist in the US have been showing their ugly heads lately.
Just need eyes to see it.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
371. Lately?
They've been doing it since before I was born. Before 911, the worst acts of terrorism in this country have been done by RWingers.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. Isn't that exactly how it started in Rwanda, though?
Hate radio?

And didn't that guy that shot up the church recently have books by these people in his car?

Yeah, I'd say it is time, and past time, to hold the hatemongers on talk radio accountable.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
91. Yes, and they are being sought/tried for war crimes.
Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII. We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Calling for the execution of conservatives?
Who's the hatemonger now?
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #93
105. Can you point out to me which poster called for the execution on conservatives?
because I'm not seeing it here.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #105
112. Read the comment above me
"Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII. We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country."
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #112
125. I don't believe in the death penalty
but I DO believe in holding propagandists accountable.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #112
135. I did and he advocated no such thing.
the poster explained how one person was held accountable in the past. I did not see where he said execute the current hatemongers. Saying someone needs to be held accountable in this country is quite a leap from saying someone should be executed.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:34 PM
Original message
That's not calling for the "execution" of conservatives
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:40 PM by maxrandb
That's calling for justice!

You forgot to bold the "tried" part of the sentence. It appears just before the "and executed" part you bolded.

Big difference.

You're not saying we should have just let the Nazi Propagandist go, are you?

You're not using the "Julius Streicher was just an entertainer defense, are you?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #112
353. Well, WTF are you whining about? YOUR BUDDIES on the right
are the ones creaming their shorts in their excitement over their beloved death penalty.......
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #112
370. You competely skipped over the "tried" part of that sentence
I wonder if today's shooter and the one who shot up the church held a "trial" first, before opening fire.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #93
122. Did you forget the sarcasm icon?
Because I'm pointing to a historical basis that ties hatemongering propaganda to crimes like genocide and murder. If you think there's no connection, then you have no grasp of history.

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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #122
138. And history has a lot of people like you
People who use every excuse at hand to arrest and imprison political opponents.

YOU are a threat to freedom.

Why not let the FBI arrest every environmentalist author every time an SUV dealership burns?
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #138
146. Now you're overreacting.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:04 PM by AllieB
I'm talking about terrorism here-and fascism. It's a real stretch to indict me as a person who 'use every excuse at hand to arrest and imprison political opponents.' Give me a break. :eyes:

What about the 'pro-lifers' who target clinics with bombs and kill the doctors? they were often exhorted to do so by the talking haters on TV, radio and the internet. What should happen to them?

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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #146
373. What about PETA?
A scientists house was firebombed a couple of weeks ago with the scientist, his wife and young child inside. Animal rights activists took credit for the firebombing. The Unabomber had Al Gore's book in his possession when he was arrested.

David
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #373
400. Then they should be prosecuted. However, so called 'pro-lifers' have taken many more innocent lives
with their terrorism than PETA. I think PETA are whacked.

It's very interesting how all you guys show up on the same threads to defend your buddies. Subtle as a sledgehammer...
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #400
402. I don't disagree with you.
Just giving some examples. Arson, for any reason, affects me and people I know and care about. Sorry that's not subtle.

David
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #402
405. My dad was a firefighter, so I totally agree with you.
:-)

The point that many were making in the thread, however, is the influence of RW propaganda. History has implicated propaganda in genocide and murder (Rwanda, Serbia, Nazi Germany, etc). Propagandists have been convicted as war criminals. The Knoxville shooter who shot up a liberal Unitarian church was a fan of Savage, Coulter, and Rush. They are accessories in these kind of heinous acts.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #405
409. They seem to have been influential.
As Al Gore seemed to be to the Unabomber. Accessory is a strong word, too strong in my opinion. The Knoxville shooter's wife began attending that church before she divorced the shooter, clearly there were many stressors that caused him to develop that kind of hatred and target that church. A good friend was one of the 4 men that tackled the shooter. I have spoken with him extensively, a little informal "Critical Incident Stress Management" of sorts.

David
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #409
524. So you're disagreeing with this..?

According to the News-Sentinel, Knoxville police department investigator Steve Still wrote in the search warrant that Jim David Adkisson, the man who was arrested in the rampage, went to the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets."

Adkisson, who had served in the military, said "that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement he would then target those that had voted them in office," the search warrant states. Among the items seized from Adkisson's house were three books: "The O'Reilly Factor," by television commentator Bill O'Reilly; "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder," by radio personality Michael Savage; and "Let Freedom Ring," by political pundit Sean Hannity.

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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #524
530. How on earth could you possibly come to that conclusion?
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #373
511. You will find most people here think PETA are loons.
Granted they are our loons but I'd rather have them then psycho rednecks.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #138
157. Theres a big difference between advocating an opposite view - like
"We need to cut back on green house gasses or we're all buggered." and advocating a course of action that results in an SUV dealership being burned. The hatemonger facists are directly advocating murder, and selling it as a patriotic duty.

Um, how is that different again from the nazi and rwanda propaganda? Please do tell. Looks about the same to me.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #138
221. So if someone on the radio or TV told listeners "Stewie is a threat to America"
..."The best way to deal with Stewie and his/her beliefs is a baseball bat", etc and so on, day in and day out, you wouldn't feel the least bit motivated to have that person stopped?

And please don't give me "They don't know who I am" or other weak responses. It comes down to this: do you or don't you believe everyone in this country has the right to their opinion without having to fear becoming a target of violence?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #221
230. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #138
269. My, my...you guys really are out in a group today.
n/t
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lifesbeautifulmagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #138
311. what makes you think they don't?
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #138
347. too late, the DoJ is already doing this
They investigate and come after democrats and liberals, esp prior to election season. Admitted, investigated, and found guilty thereof is our Dept of "Justice". So, our govt is already doing what you suggest it should not do in order to protect freedom of speech/belief.

And no one said anything about hurting conservatives, unless you equate every hate mongering propagandist as necessarily being conservative?

it was simply suggested that hate speech sold as propaganda which incites people to hurt a group of people based only on their identification with that group is a crime. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with the right to life and believe what you choose without being prosecuted for it.

it is an incorrect assumption that freedom of speech supersedes all other rights.

For a right to life group, it's exceptionally arrogant and hypocritical that they believe their right to speak (hate and propaganda) overrides another person's right to life. So, now it is OK to call for the death of people who believe something they don't? And when in fact some "crazy", who conveniently got shot and now can't speak for himself, acts on their words, they feel no guilt? wow. arrogance and insanity personified.

that's the profile of a sociopath or a psychopath.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #138
512. Freedom (tm)
What exactly is Freedom? Define it.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #122
355. Sadly, the only "history" these christian homeschooler wackos
learn is the Old Testament....
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #93
152. Differences with the democrats is that the democrats call for giving the republicans fair trials
before executing them. republicans call for assasinating democrats and everybody else the dont like. If they give a trial they create a kangaroo court to try them and make sure they get convicted.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #93
173. Wow, this thread is really bringing out the freepers.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #173
323. AMAZING how they get all defensive of their own when shit like this happens, isn't it? n/t
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #173
338. I Guess They Think They are Slick
then again, dumb people are like children who pretend mommy can't see them when they cover their own eyes with their own hands.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #93
197. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #93
322. No, but a trial and conviction for incitement of violence would be nice. n/t
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pagandem4justice Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #93
337. Translation, for the reading comprehension impaired.
"Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII." <-- Separate sentence, historical example.

Sentence #2, current situation, not in direct reference to said Nazi:
"We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country." <-- Note that because these ideas are joined by a conjunction (which I think should actually be a semicolon, but whatever), the pronoun "it" refers to the action taken in the first part of the sentence...i.e., "holding hatemongers accountable." Not execution.

Now, if you were to ask the next logical question, "hold them accountable how?" then you refer back to the previously-cited historical example, which involves trial, followed by execution...execution being the result of the trial.

In plain English, the poster did not "call for the execution of conservatives." She/he called for an accountability on the part of the hatemongers on par with the trial of a Nazi propagandist (the result of which was execution).


Gosh, I think this freeper has a higher post count than me, and I've been here since '04...Guess I need to talk more. :shrug:

:hi:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #337
340. yes... please do
this place is crawling with them....


;-)
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
43. Propaganda works... n/t
Propaganda works...
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
55. the guy who shot up that church
Had Michael Weiner's book "Liberalism is a Mental Disease" plus Hannity's and I think O'Reilly's. He was an avid listener to RW radio and killed people because their liberal views. This case might be different but it is an attack on a political party's headquarters, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a hate crime. These radio hosts are always trying to amass their people for riots, like Limbaugh wanted to do at the Dem convention, etc. Some mentally ill guy could think it natural to go a step further. With a black man poised to be president, don't expect it to get any better.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
111. Do television ads make people buy crap they don't need or that is even detrimental to their own well
being?
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #111
155. Thats a great big YES Dude!!!
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
120. Here - examples of right-wing calls for violence against liberals:
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:01 PM by Hissyspit
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #120
326. Isn't their lack of response to examples just incredible?
Erm. Sorry. Incredibly predictable is what I meant to say.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
121. You got any facts?
I guess you're as adept with "the google" as McCain.
Wake up and realize what a disease hate-radio is in this country.
Your defense of those calling for murder is...indefensable.
You need to ramp up your skills to post here.

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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
276. Have you already forgotten when that lady on Fox news
Said that she hoped that Obama and Osama were both killed?
And that is no low powered radio station, abut a major player in the MSM
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
316. Tell that to the people of Rwanda. n/t
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
349. Didn't you study what led to the RWANDAN GENOCIDE
a while back in your christian homeschool???????

Betcha you think the Abu Ghraib torturers were 100% responsible and their superiors were pure as the driven snow, huh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #70
82. "Only if we ban all mosques"???
Are you saying that all mosques preach hate? Any evidence that can prove this you should be provided.

And while we're at it let's ban all Christian churches based on the Westboro Baptist church and the Phelps family.
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
95. actually we DO know ..
the guy who shot up that church had Michael Weiner's book "Liberalism is a Mental Disease" plus Hannity's and I think O'Reilly's. He was an avid listener to RW radio and killed people because their liberal views. This case might be different but it is an attack on a political party's headquarters, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a hate crime. These radio hosts are always trying to amass their people for riots, like Limbaugh wanted to do at the Dem convention, etc. Some mentally ill guy could think it natural to go a step further. With a black man poised to be president, don't expect it to get any better.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #70
187. I think you're on the wrong website. n/t
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #187
225. I don't think he is - he's making a good point - wait, maybe he IS on the wrong site
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
266. Get lost, you fucking asshole
I sense a pizza coming your way in the near future...
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Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #70
271. Mmmm....pizza is yummy. I like the one with all the fixins'.
Do you like pepperoni or sausage or just cheese?

You most certainly are in the wrong place.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
84. Rush limbaugh did this?
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keroro gunsou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #84
189. i don't think so
he's too busy being a pill-popping, little boy toucher... or so i've heard...
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
88. Got anything resembling a fact that applies to this case?
At this point we don't know what the score is.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
517. I think you're right.
I was once in the car and ran across a really hateful show on the radio. The host gave a lawyer's name and home address because he was advocating his listeners to hunt her down. Turned out it was Michael Weiner Savage, who MoveOn got removed from MSNBC, but he's still on the radio...
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Breaking News: Shooting At State Democratic Party Headquarters
Source: Todayshv

Little Rock police are on the scene of a shooting on West Capitol Street at the state Democratic party headquarters. The Arkansas Democratic Party says the chairman, Bill Gwatney, is hospitalized after incident. At least three shots were fired after a man walked into the building during the noon hour.
The 1300 block West Capitol was shut down after the shooting, just blocks from the state capitol in downtown Little Rock.

Witnesses said one person was apparently seriously wounded and taken from the scene by ambulance.

Officers said they were pursuing a white man in his 40's that fled the scene in a truck. Little Rock police say officers are pursuing a suspect into Saline County off I-530, south of Little Rock.

Stay with Today's THV and todaysthv.com for more on this developing story.




Read more: http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=...
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. White man in 40s, truck
Reminds me of the guy that shot up the Unitarian Church in Knoxville a few weeks ago.

Is this a conspiracy?
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
68. A white man in a truck? That's enough for me.
Time to indict Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and the rest of them.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #68
240. Long past time actually freeep. nt
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #68
358. You Better Catch their Last Shows Then...
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 05:57 PM by fascisthunter
how will you ever get your talking points....
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
213. Well, possibly.
Google "Phineas Priests".
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
531. OMG! A white man in a truck in Arkansas!
You just described my entire church softball team from 1999 and 2000.

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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
58. I am afraid there will be more
Not to be harsh, but as an out gay man in the south Alabama, Fla now NC. I know first hand what kind of hate is out there. When I lived in Fla I had occasion to hear rash limpd k spew about how nasty gay people are and libruls etc. I thought even way back then that it has to have some effect on the unstable righties and sooner or later this kind of stuff would be happening.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Stay strong, people.
nt
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. omfg.
:wtf:
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Heres' the AP link
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. Chairman of State Dems is hospitalized in critical condition
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Bill Gwatney
Here he is on August 2nd, talking about opening an Obama campaign HQ in Little Rock:
http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2008/08/02/news/08030...
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. Disturbing. I wonder if there's a connection between the nutjob and this...
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:11 PM by nc4bo
http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2008/08/02/news/08030...

some of the comments there in your lnk are just crazy and racist as hell.



:scared: :scared: :scared:
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. OMG!
Homegrown terrorists...

Hope they are all ok.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
137. Terra? What the..?
We ain't got no terra-ists here. Only crim-nuls.

Terra-ists is them brown furriners!
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. ...haven't we all been expecting this since the church shooting?
or, since Limbaugh decided to tell his people to kill us?

DAMN!
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. No, but it's a good way ignore personal responsibility
Any voices convincing someone to harm another are in the attackers head only.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. You seem awfully anxious to defend RW hate radio.
I suppose Goebbels was scapegoated too. :shrug:
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM
Original message
I can sympathize with the previous poster though...
I don't want anybody censored regardless of political affiliation.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
61. If they're doing the equivalent of crying "fire" in a crowded theater,
they need to be removed from the broadcast spectrum immediately.

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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. Personally....
I've never heard of someone calling for violence on another, but I don't listen to much AM radio. I can see any efforts to censor getting out of control though in the interest of "security."
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #67
117. then you need to start listening to AM radio
God knows why, one of the local stations up here carries Rush Limbaugh in all his glory. Somebody in my workplace had it on all day until I filed a sexual harassment complaint (cause of all the homophobic crap) and had it shut down. In the meantime I had to listen to Rush babble away. In his "joking" way, he often recommends violence against all sorts of people, especially liberals and members of the Democratic party.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #67
132. What no scurrilous speculation as to why the chairman brought this upon himself?
But we do have a defense of rw hate media so way to keep your bonafides going.

Here's a short list of violent threats against liberals and Democrats

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

You can then remove your head from the sand and put it back to it customary position.

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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #67
141. Nerer heard? Or never heard of?
Big difference.

If you've never heard of it, you haven't been paying attention.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #67
210. Then tune into Michael Savage one day. I did and it made
me ill.

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #67
362. You need to get out of your little cave more often.
RW hate radio hosts have been openly advocating violence against and even murder of liberals in general and some specific individuals for YEARS.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
417. especially when they monopolize our airwaves to do it
I don't even get Air America in my town, and it is one of the larger in my state.

But we sure do get our fill of Rush Limbaugh. My little ole neighbor
listens to his every word. And she is supposed to be a Christian.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
77. Exactly
If right wing radio hosts are responsible for this, then Keanu Reeves needs to be arrested for Columbine.

I wonder about the mental stability of people who look to use every tragedy to arrest their political opponents.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #77
320. Go do a quick study on the genocide in Rwanda
and THEN post your tripe.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Then again, maybe you know exactly what you're doing on this board.

Things that make you go, "HHHhhhmmm."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #77
363. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #77
379. Keanu Reeves had a grudge against the kids of Columbine?
:shrug:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
106. Who is talking about censoring? --answer: only you & your cohorts
There is a huge difference between people promoting conservative issues and those promoting hate and violence. When we speak of hate radio we mean hate speech, the kind that is not protected by law but is being given a blind eye to by those who are occupying the Dept of Justice.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
241. A tag-team match
wvbygod distracts them, while you tie their shoelaces.

Do either of you fratboys have a genuine contribution?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
360. You probably wouldn't have had any objection at all to the
anti-jewish propaganda spewed by the Nazis, or the murderous threats and instigation by the Rwandan hate radio, either.

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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
86. I blame the shooter period.
There is no excuse. RW hate radio has no influence of or notice by me.

And yes, I alway get anxious when someone defends a shooter who has only intent to harm another.
I live with it every day.
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John Kerry VonErich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
150. Sounds like people are jumping to conclusions
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM by John Kerry VonErich
We have yet to know the motive or who the shooter is.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #150
182. Jumping to conclusions before all of the facts are in is DU's favourite pastime.
Speaking as someone in Little Rock, the word I'm getting is that he was a disgruntled former employee, not a Rush-bot just following orders by assassinating Democrats..
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
159. You Can Figure Out Why CF
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:08 PM by Binka
It is pretty obvious.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
169. wvbygod doesn't understand history obviously.
Julius Streicher was tried and executed for war crimes after WWII. He was a major propagandist. The influence of propaganda is well-documented throughout history as a step toward genocide, fascism, and murder. The propagandists should be held accountable for their actions.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #169
180. He was a poor, innocent scapegoat.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #169
215. Show how that history relates to this shooting please
Obviously you can't or you would not be making wrong assumptions about me.

I truly do enjoy the prattle of those that project their weakness upon me.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #215
219. ...
1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus living fossils so we will never forget what these people stood for."

2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."

3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him."

4. John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."

5. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."

6. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

7. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."


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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #219
232. Thanks and all good information but......
I refuse to jump to any conclusion in this case without more evidence. I hope you are
not a DA or other law enforcement type tho....
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #232
245. No, and now that it seems that this was a workplace shooting
I'll withold my judgement until more details come out. We know for a fact, however, that the Knoxville church shooting was motivated by propaganda.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Exactly what kind of personal responsibility should the victim have taken here?
what personal responsibility are you talking about?
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
65. I think...
...they're referring to the fact that the shooter should be taking personal responsibility and not trying to get out of jail with the excuse that he was listening to too much talk radio.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
92. The shooter and HIS personal responsibility
Who the fuck did you think I meant? The victim? Get real.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #92
104. I think your answer is out of line and disrespectful.
You could have ended it with the first part.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #104
216. Yes, I could and should have
It's just that when someone projects ill intent upon me I get excited. Survival instinct.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #216
270. I'm assuming you're not implying I was projecting ill intent upon you.
I may have misunderstood your earlier post regarding personal responsibility, however, there was no ill intent in my post to you. If you feel that way about my post, well, that's for you to sort out.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #270
318. Thanks. No, not any ill intent here.
Just some others that tried to imply I was defending the RW gasbags. I may despise the RW
(and other) attempts to stir crap up with borderline people but after being locked up
by lying and other false charges, I despise jumping to conclusions with no facts at all.
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miles 2 go Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Wrong! Those right wingnut radio hosts are always
encouraging their off balanced wingnut listeners to do violence. It's enough to make them think that they are doing whats best for them and the country because of the bullshit the host is spewing. If it was a liberal station doing the same, it would suddenly be illegal.

Of course we don't yet know what happened in this case, but we have seen this kind of thing again and again and it comes back as retaliation for abortion, gay, anti gun blah blah blah. THat's why so many people automatically jump to the conclusion that it was a fucktard wingnut at the trigger.

He asked to see the chairman rather than ask for someone by name after all.

The republicans are assholes that think killing is ok. If you happen to know of any real close by...tell them I said so.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
42. So you're defending hate radio AND advocating "personal responsibility"?
Things that make you go, "HHhhhmmmmm."
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #42
101. Grow up
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
108. that person is on ignore for a reason
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. There are no voices...
There are no voices on the A.M. radio shows attempting to convince people to harm others? :shrug:

Denial of that may only be in person's head, though...
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
123. Examples?
links?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #123
136. "physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/20/lop...


Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people dont kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for."

Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too," and "I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days,"


need more examples? There's plenty more to see if one open his eyes...
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #123
234. Here you go
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #234
384. thanks
I saved that page on StumbleUpon and Delicious.

I heard it could be added to Digg, too, but I haven't decided to get into that yet. Maybe later, thanks.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
378. Personal responsibility
So, then if a radio jock calls for YOUR ass to be targeted, that'd be okay with you. After all, that wouldn't increase the likelihood someone would try to kill you one iota, right?
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. I think about it every Tuesday when I stand at the peace vigil.
When people bring little children to stand with us I am always on the lookout. If one of Rush's nut cases comes a calling I want to be able to shield the little guys. Only in america can entertainers encourage carnage and get paid for it.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
131. I see it less as incitement than as validation
There are certain actions we all know are wrong -- but if someone we respect tells us they're okay, or makes them seem glamorous, we're more likely to do them. This ranges from trivial stuff like littering, through abuse of drugs and alcohol and tobacco, and up to hate crimes and murder.

It isn't clear how far to take the question of responsibility. Does John Hinckley's obsession with Taxi Driver mean that Martin Scorsese is responsible for Hinckley's attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan? Presumably not -- though I think it's playing with fire to create any powerful work of art which deals sympathetically with mass murder.

However, in the case of Limbaugh and his brethren, I believe they are very definitely responsible for creating a climate in which hatred of liberals and thoughts of violence against them are socially acceptable. It is that sort of breakdown of social norms that makes possible the situation you had in Nazi Germany -- where private violence against Jews long preceded official genocide. And if we do not act in some way now to make it clear that those things are *not* tolerated, we will all feel the consequences in the future.

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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #131
238. good thinking--and remember RWANDA
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM by librechik
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. What the bloody hell is going on there? Heard the short breaking news blurb but
everything's sketchy.

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Janice325 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks for letting us know, EarlG.
So sad. :cry:
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. The shooter is dead and the victim in serious condition
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Dead how? Cops?
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:56 PM
Original message
Shooter is dead?
Link? I heard he was in custody with non-lifethreatening injuries.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. The AP story says that the suspect is in custody. nt
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. CNN just reported that they are working on air lifting suspect to a
local hospital. IF that's true, he's obviously not dead! Sometimes this rush to get the news out first is just plain aggrivating! You can never be sure what's really going on!
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
59. They said lately that they were trying to resuscitate him.
A reporter said a man fitting his description ran into a Baptist church and complained about losing his job. He then ran out the back and got into a blue truck.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. I wonder if we'll ever find out why he did this? n/t
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
134. A post in the comments section of the TV station,
Not very credible source, but they say it was rumored that the shooter was recently laid off at Gwatney Chevrolet. Gwatney owns 3 car dealerships.

Just a rumor so far.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #134
419. The layoff probably wasn't personal then--car sales are sucking these days--
--except for very fuel efficient cars.
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gblady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. too bad...
the shooter is dead...
could be we'll never know the why of it...
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Absolutely horrific.
:cry:
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InNeedOfUserName Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was hospitalized in critical condition....
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was hospitalized in critical condition today, a party executive said. A television station reported that three shots were fired at party headquarters.

There has been an incident at the party and chairman (Bill) Gwatney has been taken to the hospital, said Bruce Sinclair, the director of the state Democratic Party.

Police said they apprehended a suspect....
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articlei...

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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. We need to know the shooter's sources of news/information
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
239. Is that a rhetorical question?
Because I think everyone on this site knows the answer to that already.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. My advice: all Dems go out and buy a hunting license. Then go buy a nice automatic 12 gauge shotgun
and a semi-automatic hunting rifle capable of bagging a deer or bear at a 100 yards. Then buy a .357 magnum pistol for shooting varmints. Buy plenty of ammo too because you're gonna need it if you want to learn to be an accurate shooter.

Learn gun safety, teach your kids gun safety and how to shoot. Keep your guns well maintained, locked up, but easily accessible.

We're all Americans here. We have a right to own firearms. There's a reason for this.

You never know when you might be so poor you might need to bag a doe to feed your family.

Just sayin'.



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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. So your solution is to buy bigger, better guns?
No thanks, that's what BushCo does.

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CrazyDude Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
74. I believe all political figures should be armed, hell I believe everybody should be armed n/t
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. Everyone? Are you sure about that?
Felons?

Drunks?

People with severe mental problems?

Do you think Dick Cheney should have a gun?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #85
342. anyone believing everyone should be carrying IS Mentally Ill
or all of the above.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #342
554. Or maybe just a troll
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #74
190. Ooooh big surprise there n/t
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #190
296. If this poster is not from....
"that other website", then maybe they should be.

If the shoe fits...or in this case, the username and post content....

Worth watching, that's all.



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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
45. What the hell does a hunting license have to do with this?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM by kwolf68
You can have a gun to protect yourself without foraging through the woods looking for unsuspecting/unarmed victims. The real quarry for me is the assholes who want to shoot me for being a Democrat.

Look at me, I don't hunt, but I own guns and can use em too. Yeppers.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
201. Another gun-owning nonhunter here. Only ~1 in 5 gun owners hunts.
And a deer rifle is really too powerful for defensive purposes. Small-caliber carbines (particularly .223) and shotguns are a better choice, IMO, though handguns are certainly more portable.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
231. Yours is one of the reasons I'm currently
looking into getting a shotgun. If they're going to take me down, I'm going fighting.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. You'll want to be able to nail a deer at at least 250 yards.
That's only half the distance on a decent par four golf hole.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. The day I give in to fear...
No thanks. The day I give in to fear is the day the terrorists, the extremists and the nuts have won. That day is not here.

"Just sayin'..."
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. Where are you going to get an automatic shotgun?
:shrug:
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
83. I assume he meant semi-automatic or "autoloader"
The term "autoloader" is widely used by the manufacturers themselves to describe semi-automatic shotguns, and a lot of people switch "autoloader" with "automatic".

E.g. "Pull the trigger and it shoots, without any of that stupid pumping stuff to slow you down". I have a Mossberg 930 with a Choate 8 shell extension (nine shots if you keep one chambered). In a pinch, I can put nine slugs into a target in just under four seconds. My shoulder will need medical attention afterwards though.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:01 PM
Original message
They do make them,
but they presumably illegal for civilian ownership. The AA-12 is a low-recoil, full-auto 12-gauge with both standard and drum magazines available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zlWplfLQ2E
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
149. Well aware and would love to have one...
but getting my class III license isn't likely.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #149
153. I can't think of a single good reson to have one,
but I still want one! :evilgrin:
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #149
546. You'd have to be an SOT; mere peons can't own one even with a Form 4...
as they are post-'86s and therefore police/military/government use only.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
330. My granddaddy bought me a 12ga. double barrel when I was 12 (in '59). My dad had a 12 ga. automatic.
It was a bird and rabbit gun. We called them automatics back then (even though they were really semi-automatics), and that's what my hunter friends call them to this day.

As Xithras explains a few posts down, it simply means you don't have to pump or re-cock a hammer to fire the next round. I have never even heard the term "autoloader", but then I gave up hunting a lot of years back.

As far as a deer rifle goes, around here a 100-yard shot is a LONG shot. This ain't the Great Plains so you don't need a scope even, unless you want to be a show off--, or you don't know how to apply "Kentucky windage", or your eyesight is failing.

"Get a hunting license" was my weak attempt at humor, but taking a gun safety course and exercising due diligence for storing and controlling weapons was meant as a serious suggestion for anyone who is not already properly trained about guns.

I have some friends who are Democrats who own guns, but not that many own them. And I have a lot of friends who are Democrats. I must say that most of my friends who are Republicans own guns, whether or not they are hunters.




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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
76. Do you need the hunting license in
order to get the shotgun? My understanding of that was that you didn't. But I love that you brought up gun safety. I'm one of those evil liberals who has no hatred of guns.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #76
204. No. Most gun owners don't obtain hunting licenses because they don't hunt.
You do have to pass a Federal point-of-sale background check, fill out Federal paperwork on the transaction, and your state may have additional requirements. (Gun-owning nonhunter here, FWIW.)

Do you live in NYC, though? If so, you pretty much have to have a lawyer to walk you through the process, or have LOTS of time, money, and patience. Outside of NYC, the state of NY's purchase requirements are not particularly onerous, although there are some silly rules on rifle stock shape and such, IIRC.

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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #204
226. I realized that handgun owners don't
necessarily hunt but hadn't heard about a hunting license for a shotgun. I do not live in the city (about 15 miles north) and have already looked into getting a shotgun (for various reasons). I appreciate your reply.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
127. Funny you mention that. My son who wasn't particularly keen on it
is taking the class in Hunter's Saftey at the Sportsman's club as I type; for just that very reason. I told my son you never know how bad things can get and he might have to know how to feed himself. Damn bunch of republicans don't have a clue they're passing knowledge onto a staunch future Dem.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
130. What makes you think we're all unarmed?
I have 2 pickup trucks, a hunting dog & 3 tractors too, if you want to complete the stereotype.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #130
237. Shhhhh
Let em think that we're all unarmed. It only helps us.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
251. Like we aren't armed already?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. the right wing radio heads are the most dangerous
people in america today. after listening to that levin guy out of new york it`s pretty clear people like him are going to start pushing people over the edge.

i hope this is`t the case in this shooting
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Killers as victims of radio host trash talk?
Would you accept that as a defense of someone that harmed another?
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. Not a defense, but an explanation.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. Rwanda.
http://www.idrc.ca/rwandagenocide/ev-108178-201-1-DO_TO...

Way too much information for me to decide what's important to quote, but if you give the link even a cursory reading, you'll get the point quite clearly.
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miles 2 go Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
62. No one is saying it as a defense. Asshole telling asshole to do
something and asshole does it, does not excuse asshole.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
66. Rush Limbaugh is live talking about John Edwards right now.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:38 PM by Kire
I guess nobody has written any talking points yet.

EDIT: Georgia and a big jail being built in Denver are apparently more important than a possible political assassination attempt in Arkansas right now.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #66
525. Was Rush deliberately trying to change the subject away from the shooting yesterday?
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. Thanks to hate radio, mission accomplished!...
:sarcasm:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
38. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
39. Honestly, hate crimes occur if you demonize a group of people all the time
as the Right does with Democrats. Like the guy in the church, he was practically brainwashed to hate liberals. Obviously others have touched on this in this thread as well, I agree.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. and yet another church (Baptist church this time) visit by a nutjob.
CNN not saying if the Dem shooting is connected to it or not.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. The Baptist church gun guy stated he lost his job before leaving...
...They're saying the description of the Baptist church guy and his vehicle matches the Dem HQ shooter. :shrug:
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:26 PM
Original message
Makes one wonder : exactly WHICH part of ' Thou Shalt Not Kill ' do these loonies NOT GET?
:mad:
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CrazyDude Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
79. Agreed, but I don't think the motive here has been shown
Nor do I believe hateful speech that merely provides motivation to commit hate crimes, like Lou Dobbs, but does not actually incite violence should be banned. If we go down that road, the 1st Amendment has gone to shit.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:10 PM
Original message
right, I'm just saying if this was one it wouldn't surprise me
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
80. I was on vacation when that happened and
don't know any details. Could you give me a short synopsis if you have a second. Thanks.
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
279. I have a suspicion...
that if what's being discussed down thread turns out to be true, your demonizing argument is going to be used to hammer the left. (And maybe DU in particular.)



By the way...
" I can't wait to get on the ice this year; I want to be the Mick Foley of Alberta Curling"- enigmatic

:rofl:
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:28 PM
Original message
Yes, but understand I am not saying they advocate or ordered
anybody to shoot a Dem or anything. I'm just saying if you constantly demonize a group of people there will be mentally ill people who buy into it enough to do something bad. Same with people who are GLBT or of a different race. Xenophobia will lead to sick people committing awful acts.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
47.  Bill Gwatney
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
50. Somebody please lay this at the feet of Coulter, Savage, Limbaugh et al.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Send them the blood soaked clothing and lay it on their desks.
This is crazy NOW and think we've still got a long ways to go.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. They've tried to lay the blame for the job loss at the feet of the Dems.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #63
142. I read a rumor in the comments section of the TV station there.
They said the rumor was, the shooter was recently laid off at Gwatney Chevrolet. I guess Bill Gwatney owns 3 car dealerships.

Just a rumor so far.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #142
176. That makes sense because he stated that he'd lost his job.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
69. Yes, by all means blame anyone other than the shooter
Just like the brothers and sister of the jealous ex husband that died trying to kill
his ex-wife, family and her fiance blame her. Yeah, all these victims that go off trying
to kill people because "someone made them do it".

Is that anything like blaming the scantily clad rape victim?

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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. No, it's not
I urge you to learn about what went down in Rwanda. What happened there is exactly what you're saying shouldn't be blamed.

It could happen here as easily.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #69
89. You are a very confused person...
Rush, Hannity and Coulter were not raped in this story.
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miles 2 go Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #69
90. You don't comprehend what you read very well do you?
Maybe if you just go listen to Rush.....
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #90
116. Have you stopped beating your dog?
I'll wait for the facts before spouting off and blaming anyone other than the shooter.

As for comprehending things...any text, machine, theory, science, survival etc I will
be happy to compete against anyone who attacks me with a "You don't...do you?" cop out.
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miles 2 go Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #116
143. Stopped beating my dog? Damn. I haven't even started yet and boy
does he deserve it. You should see the trash that he got into. He humps the other dog and is getting old enough that he thinks peeing on the carpet is ok now. Stop beating him? Ha!
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #69
94. There is a difference
Between making someone do something and influencing someone to do something. People can be influenced by others, it's been going on for centuries, the church was great at it especially during the Crusades.
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asksam Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #50
246. How about Michelle Malkin?
She admitted it on her blog that she's the shooter.

"I shot the Arkansas Democrat Party Chairman" she said.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/13/i-shot-the-arkansa... /

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Dollface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #246
539. She's just trying to gain acceptance by the reich-wing. Doesn't she realize she isn't white
enough for them to ever really accept her as one of their own? Poor deluded girl. Selling her soul for a one-night stand.
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
64. this election year, I have a bad feeling
I hope this isn't going to be some kind of trend. I don't know why people have to be stupid and do stuff like this, it's sickening. The human race is quickly turning back to animal status.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. Turning back?
I wasn't aware we'd left. Seriously.
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. good point..
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:27 PM by carlyhippy
I insulted the poor animal kingdom by comparing humans to them.
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hamsterjill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
172. Bad feeling seconded
I have bad feelings, too. It brings back memories of John, Martin & Bobby. And I hope that Obama has thought about this and has the best security possible - plus some extra. I hope he takes every precaution possible. Frankly it scares me when I see him in such close proximity to the humongous crowds.

There are sickos out there who would try to kill him for their own reasons, and there are also sickos out there who would try to kill him to have the world believe the Clintons were behind it.

We live in a world gone crazy.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #172
188. Step away from the computer, people, and breathe.
There is no evidence that this has anything to do with politics.

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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #188
253. THANK YOU!!!!!

:applause:

It's sad that of the 200+ posts in this thread, only a few people have addressed this fact. It's just too soon to tell. All this speculation looks foolish.

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hamsterjill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #188
290. Just expressing a concern.
And I'm breathing just fine, thank you.

Are you breathing okay there?
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
81. Oh Good God... but why? WHY?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM by ailsagirl
:mad: :cry:

Sounds pretty bad...
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
87. Time we start shooting back!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #87
145. Only after you rub that bears belly.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
96. A nut job who took Limpball's advice?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
97. Right Wing Terrorism: Hate Radio and Fox News are the Fuel
they are cracking because they know their hay-day is just about to come to an end.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
98. Sounds like they're becoming very fearful of a November D victory.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:34 PM by flvegan
Horrible way to deal with it. I wish Mr. Gwatney a speedy recovery.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. yes indeed
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
103. My god they are going to kill us all
:cry:
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #103
244. Don't cry about it
Do something to protect yourself if you're really afraid. No reason not to go down fighting or actually even win.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #244
252. It's a pretty famous line from the JFK assassination (Connally said it)
And I have a gun, kthanks.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #252
259. Sorry - unaware of the reference
And frankly, I prefer the wingers actually believing we're all unarmed.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #259
277. No worries
And re-reading my response, I didn't mean it to come off snarky like that, so my apologies as well. Good point about them thinking we are unarmed though :D
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
109. My God...
can you imagine what this country would be like if liberals took up arms and just started shooting people when we get outraged? Especially considering the direction we've been headed over the past 30 years?

*sigh*

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HerbieHeadhunter Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
115. I am hearing terrible news...
from people speaking to employees of the state party that Bill Gwatney passed away. I pray that the news is incorrect, but I fear that it is not.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #115
119. Oh no
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #115
206. Not confirmed. 51-year-old shooter is dead.
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HerbieHeadhunter Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #206
294. Unfortunately, it is confirmed...
it happened earlier, they were waiting to inform his family before announcing that he had passed.

Just terrible...
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
128. And if the shooter was a PUMA inspired Hillbot, then what? /nt
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. Then he was a criminal
No more, no less. No matter what set the shooter off, he is a criminal. Or was a criminal if he is indeed dead.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #133
165. Yes, I understand that

The point was about banning speech because of the entirely fact-free assumption this had something to do with nutjob radio.
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
129. Wonder what this means?
Found this comment:

"Praying for all involved. Mr. Gwatney just did a good deed for us and Pray it has nothing to do with this kicking this candidate out of the upcoming election."

Here: http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=...

:wtf:
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #129
140. Rumor also had it that he lost his job
from one of Gwatney's dealerships. But hey, let's continue to speculate that is was a rabid rightwing talk radio junkie.

This sort of speculation and emotional vomiting just makes us look like idiots.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #140
147. then why not shoot him at the dealership?
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #147
154. Uh, because he wasn't *there*?
:eyes:
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #154
387. Why wasn't he there?
Exactly. Point made.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #387
388. Because he was elsewhere?
I had this conversation in college once.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #388
394. But where was elsewhere and why wasn't elsewhere there instead of elsewhere?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 07:48 PM by Zevon fan
*edit... I just realized what an asshole I am and how inappropriate this probably is.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #140
148. It also says Bill Gwatney didn't make it... he's dead.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:03 PM by btmlndfrmr
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #148
250. What???
Please provide proof of this statement.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #250
301. here
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #140
156. Mob mentality is a scary thing....
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:34 PM by WriteDown
Regardless of who are what its directed toward.

edited for one letter.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #140
158. well lots of people lose their jobs and it is a devastating situation to be in
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:07 PM by nc4bo
but they don't go shooting up churches and political party offices because of it.

Why a Democratic Party Office anyway??

Using the broad brush here: Since when did the Dem Party become known as the party that looses jobs?

I hope the police find out why he did this. I just don't understand this at all.

God help us.

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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #158
161. Gwatney is also a businessman
He owns 3 Chevy dealerships in the area. Chances are the shooter's rage was directed at the businessman rather than the party chariman.

But it's all speculation just now.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #161
164. k, thanks - it's making some sense now. nt
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #158
256. It became known as the party that loese jobs since
EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THE HATE RADIO STARS decided to feed it to every one of their moronic listeners.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #140
163. part and parcel of why message boards exist.
"This sort of speculation" is part and parcel of why message boards exist.

I'm sure you've never speculated on anything prior to having complete, full, and absolute knowledge of the How's, When's, Why's, Who's, and What's, but the rest of us are merely mortal...
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #163
167. Oh I've speculated
Just not to the point of calling for people's heads prior to knowing fact one about a given situation.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #167
170. rather inconsequential as it carries no legal authority...
"Calling for people's heads" is rather inconsequential as it carries no legal authority...
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #170
175. I never said it did
What I said was it makes us look collectively stupid if it comes out that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the shooter's politics. Which is looking very likely at this point.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #175
184. Really? Then why wasn't his employer the target?
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #184
186. I answered your qestion down there n/t
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #175
193. Nah, just everyone above post 133
look collectively stupid :rofl:

:evilgrin:
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #193
207. Thank god I'm below the line
:toast:
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #175
267. Mere speculation...
Mere speculation does not make a person or people look stupid-- regarldess of how this turns out. Idle speculation is part and parcel of a message board. Jesus... :eyes:
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #129
151. Answered my own question, I think
"Candidate barred over scandal" http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/231825/
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #129
168. It wouldn't be Dobbins
Dobbins is black. Gunman is white.