US, Russia Trade Accusations at Security Council Over Georgia

[Purveyor]

Source: VOA News

At the rare Sunday session of the council, called jointly by the United States and Georgia, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad questioned Russia's motives in sending some 10,000 troops into South Ossetia in recent days to prevent Georgia from reasserting control over the Russian-backed breakaway region.

"Russia has claimed that its military operations were intended to protect its peacekeepers and the civilian population in South Ossetia," said Zalmay Khalilzad. "Yet, its reaction goes far beyond any reasonable measures required to do so. Indeed, its escalation of the conflict has been the immediate cause of increased loss of innocent life and humanitarian suffering."

---
Russia's ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, responded to the U.S. accusations, calling charges that Russia is targeting civilians and conducting a "campaign of terror" against the Georgian population, "unacceptable" and "propaganda" that had no place in the council. He said Moscow is not obstructing the withdrawal of Georgian troops from the conflict zone.

---
Khalilzad seized on that and said the two top envoys' latest telephone conversation "raised serious concerns about Russia's objectives" in Georgia.

"In that conversation, Foreign Minister Lavrov told U.S. Secretary of State Rice that a democratically elected president of Georgia - and I quote - 'must go.' I quote again: 'Saakashvili must go.' This is completely unacceptable and crosses the line," he said. "I want to ask Ambassador Churkin, is your government's objective regime change in Georgia? The overthrow of the democratically elected government of Georgia?"

---
Ambassador Churkin's response was swift.

"Your interesting reference to the diplomatic telephone call - this confidential call between our minister and your secretary of state," said Vitaly Churkin. "I would like to say straight away, that regime change is an American expression. We do not use such an expression. I'm encouraged by the fact that you have referred to this publicly - I suggest that this means this is an interesting idea and that you are ready to bring this forward to the public platform."

MORE...

Read more: http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-08-10-voa31.cfm

[maddezmom]

1. UN Security Council Meets Again On Georgia Crisis

UN Security Council Meets Again On Georgia Crisis
Monday, 11 August 2008, 10:46 am
Press Release: United Nations



Security Council holds another meeting on crisis in Georgia
10 August 2008 - The Security Council met today for the fourth time in less than three days to discuss the crisis engulfing Georgia, where large numbers of casualties have been reported as a result of fierce fighting between Georgian and Russian forces and thousands of civilians have been displaced from their homes.

The meeting took place after Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement last night calling for an immediate end to the violence, voicing fears that the conflict was spreading beyond the South Ossetia region and the humanitarian toll was rising and urging all sides to seek a peaceful resolution.

B. Lynn Pascoe, the Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs, briefed Council members on the latest developments inside South Ossetia, where the fighting first erupted on Thursday night, and in other parts of Georgia.

more:http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0808/S00162.htm

[maddezmom]

30. Security Council holds third emergency meeting as South Ossetia conflict intensifies, expands to oth

Security Council holds third emergency meeting as South Ossetia conflict intensifies, expands to other parts of Georgia
SC/9419

Security Council
5953rd Meeting (AM)

The Security Council today held a third emergency meeting on the situation in South Ossetia, where the conflict was expanding in intensity and geographical scope, hearing briefings by senior United Nations officials and the views of members in an effort to coalesce around a unified position.

Explaining that his Government had requested today's meeting in view of 'the dramatic and dangerous developments of the past 24 hours in and around Georgia', the representative of the United States highlighted intensive Russian military activity in the South Ossetia region and a sharp escalation of military operations against Georgian forces in the conflict zone.

He said the conflict had widened with the launch of a Russian-backed offensive in Georgia's Abkhaz region, preceded by a demand by Abkhazia for the withdrawal of the peacekeeping presence in the Upper Kodori Valley. That area had since been bombed in a direct challenge to a Security Council-mandated Mission, and some Abkhaz officials had stated their intention to drive Georgian officials out of the Valley.

more: http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/KLMT-7HE4K...

[Selatius]

2. From the Russian perspective, the US engineered "regime change" in Georgia.

When Georgia's current president came to power, the Russians accused the US of sending money and aid to political groups aligned with the west, basically of interfering with Georgia's elections. Not that the previous regime was very democratic to begin with, but with the Russians, democracy is not a pre-requisite for regime change as the US often would claim in its own definition.

[DogPoundPup]

3. U.S. suggests Russia wants "regime change" in Georgia

Source: Reuters

UNITED NATIONS, Aug 10 (Reuters) - The United States suggested on Sunday that Russia was interested in "regime change" in Georgia after Moscow rejected Tbilisi's offer of a cease-fire in the separatist enclave of South Ossetia.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the president of Georgia Mikheil Saakashvili "must go," the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad, told the Security Council.

Khalilzad then looked straight at Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin and asked if Moscow was looking for "regime change."

"Is the goal of the Russian Federation to change the leadership of Georgia?" he said.

Churkin did not directly address the question but said there are leaders who "become an obstacle."

"Sometimes those leaders need to contemplate how useful they have become to their people," he told reporters later.

"Regime change is purely an American invention," he said. "We're all for democracy in Georgia."

Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN1027297820080...

---

More hypocrisy from the U.S. 'officials' from article ...

Khalilzad told reporters the telephone call between Rice and Lavrov was "disturbing," adding that the days of overthrowing European governments by force were over.

Churkin insisted Russia was not out to take over South Ossetia. "Let's state clearly that we are ready to put an end to the war, that we will withdraw from South Ossetia, that we will sign an agreement on non-use of force," he said.

The U.S. envoy said he would introduce a U.N. resolution condemning Moscow, even though Russia is a permanent council member with the power to veto it. He was meeting later with British, French diplomats and other allies on the council.

The council has been unable to take any action in four emergency meetings on the crisis in as many days due, though the heated exchanges have been reminiscent of the Cold War.
................................................................................................
AND ...
................................................................................................
'CAMPAIGN OF TERROR'

Georgian envoy Irakli Alasania told the Security Council that Churkin's comments were all "Soviet propaganda" and said Russia intended to repeat what it did in Chechnya.

Moscow plans to "erase Georgian statehood and exterminate the Georgian people," he said. Churkin in turn accused the Georgians of "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing".

Khalilzad said Russia was waging "terror" in Georgia.

"We must condemn Russia's military assault on the sovereign state of Georgia ... including the targeting of civilians and the campaign of terror against the Georgian population," he said.

Khalilzad also accused Russia of preventing the withdrawal of Georgian forces from South Ossetia to prolong the conflict and prevent Georgia from laying down its arms.

"Since Russia is impeding Georgian forces from withdrawing, rejecting a cease-fire and continuing to carry out military attacks against civilian centers, its claims of a humanitarian purpose clearly are not credible," Khalilzad said.

Churkin was furious that Khalilzad used the word "terror".

[panader0]

4. Did Putin learn that phrase from bush?

[bemildred]

5. Oh heck, do you really think Russia would go that far?

Seriously, heck yes they want regime change. The question is why did our idiot stooge there offer them such a fine opportunity to bring that about?

[MrModerate]

6. Russia wants to gobble Georgia up. They'll get away with it, too.

Certainly the utterly discredited US government can't do anything. Rice is useless and Bush is . . . well . . . Bush. Putin wants to restore the borders of the former Soviet Union (plus-plus) and will probably get his way.

By doing it now, he hands a fait accompli to the next US president, who'll have no leverage to do much about the situation. It's not like there's a viable military option, even if the US had a viable military any more.

[thepurpose]

7. The Russian UN ambassdor could barely keep a straight face

On CNNI, I heard the American UN ambassador telling the Russian UN ambassador that the time for regime change by military force in Europe is at an end. The Russian ambassador could barely contain his laughter.

[frankieT]

9. Laughing is a good reaction when you hear such barefaced lies !

Especially coming from a cynical scumbag like Khalilzad

[frankieT]

8. MrModerate your comments seem a little immoderate to me :)

Russia cannot gobble up Georgia, they barely managed to "control" Chechnya. They have no interest in Georgia, they're not that stupid. They know georgian resistance would be relentless. This joint american-georgian posturing about a possible all-out attack of Georgia, it's fucking obvious they kept doing the same thing since Russia decided to intervene and stop the cleansing of South Ossetia : they kept crying about Russia attacking Georgia to annihilate it, destroy democracy and freedom and all the nice things in official bushist propaganda book. There is no proof of it and all russian officials denied it.

[MrModerate]

11. They might not be that stupid but . . .

Putin *is* that ambitious.

[ellenfl]

10. wait a minute. i thought russia was coming to the aid of

south ossetia after georgia attempted to re-annex it? how does that compute to russia attacking georgia? sounds more like it was defending an ally.

ellen fl

[maddezmom]

12. Georgian leader no longer a partner:Russia's Lavrov

Source: Reuters

MOSCOW, Aug 10 (Reuters) - Russia no longer sees Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili as a partner, but his departure is not necessary to resolve the crisis over Georgia's rebel region of South Ossetia, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Sunday.

"A man who issued orders to commit war crimes which resulted in thousands of deaths of peaceful civilians cannot be viewed by Russia as a partner," Lavrov told journalists.

He said any suggestion by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that he had called for Saakashvili to quit as a condition for solving the crisis was a misinterpretation of a conversation between the two ministers.

"When Georgian troops leave South Ossetia and an agreement on the non-use of force is signed, peace will be restored, regardless of the future fate of Saakashvili," Lavrov said.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LA573965.htm

---

earlier quote:

Lavrov told Rice Georgian leader "must go"--US envoy
10 Aug 2008 17:28:31 GMT
Source: Reuters
UNITED NATIONS, Aug 10 (Reuters) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Sunday that the president of Georgia "must go", the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations told the Security Council.

more:http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N10282351.htm

[maddezmom]

13. US suggests Russia wants "regime change" in Georgia

US suggests Russia wants "regime change" in Georgia 10 Aug 2008 18:26:29 GMT
(Recasts with U.S., Russian and Georgian envoys)

By Louis Charbonneau

UNITED NATIONS, Aug 10 (Reuters) - The United States suggested on Sunday that Russia was interested in "regime change" in Georgia after Moscow rejected Tbilisi's offer of a cease-fire in the separatist region of South Ossetia.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the president of Georgia "must go," the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad, told the Security Council.

Khalilzad then looked straight at Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin and asked if Moscow was looking for "regime change."

"Is the goal of the Russian Federation to change the leadership of Georgia?" he said.

more:http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N10272978.htm

[AllentownJake]

14. Right...

Russia is very much against committing atrocities on break away provinces...wait..oh they did that a few years ago

[bemildred]

15. BLUFFING....

When it's convenient to their own purposes, great powers can always be counted on to "assist" ethnic minorities in their desire to secede from their parent state. The Russians are currently doing this in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and regardless of whether you think Russia or Georgia was primarily responsible for starting the current conflict, one thing is clear:

Mr. Putin made clear that Russia now viewed Georgian claims over the breakaway regions to be invalid, and that Russia had no intention of withdrawing. "There is almost no way we can imagine a return to the status quo," he said in remarks on Russian state television.

Sure, Putin just barely left the door open to some kind of face-saving pseudo-compromise with that word "almost," but does anyone seriously think that Russia is ever going to withdraw its forces from either region? Georgia forced the issue on Thursday, possibly working under the delusion that they could win a lightning victory before Russia had time to respond, Russia called their bluff and won, and there's now essentially no chance of Russia ever leaving the two disputed territories.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/20...

[Robbien]

23. A good blog on the situation "Russia Today" by Peter Levelle

An American who lived in Russia/Eastern Europe for twenty five years

http://russiatoday.ru/employee/27

The two "disputed territories" have considered themselves to be separate autonomous states for almost the last twenty years and have been ruling themselves as such.

[bemildred]

16. Russian calls for S. Ossetia tribunal

MOSCOW, Aug. 10 (UPI) -- A Russian official says an international tribunal should be established to try Georgian leaders responsible for giving orders to invade South Ossetia.

Russian human rights ombudsman Vladimir Lukin said the tribunal should punish whoever within the Georgian government gave orders to fire on the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali, ITAR-Tass reported Sunday.

"It is necessary to find out (who is) responsible at a very high international level and to bring them to a legitimate international court," he told reporters Sunday. South Ossetian separatists and Russian foreign ministry officials say up to 1,500 people were killed and the city was virtually flattened in this weekend's fighting.

"Suspects should be fingered out among those who gave orders, and this should be thoroughly scrutinized and investigated," the news agency quoted Lukin as saying. "The one who gave orders on the night destruction of Tskhinvali is naturally the main responsible person."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/08/10/Russian_calls_fo...

[daleo]

18. Another parallel with Kosovo

I think Russia is playing some tit for tat here, regarding the Serbian leaders being tried for war crimes. I don't know how serious they are about this aspect of things, but they seem pretty serious overall.

[bemildred]

19. Yeah, they will do their best to rub it in.

They have enormous leverage too, so I expect they will have considerable success.

I still wanna know if any of the fuckwits in Washington signed off on this or not though, before it started? The Bushites one last desperate draw to an inside straight?

[daleo]

21. Yes, that's the big question

Has this been engineered by secret neo-con promises to Georgia, as was the case with Bush I and Saddam, regarding his invasion of Kuwait. It seems crazy, but we know what they are capable of.

The fact that Bush II is merrily watching the Olympics and spanking bikinied volleyball players makes me wonder. I don't know if that's a good sign or a bad sign, but I lean a bit towards bad sign. It provides cover for the crisis to grow to greater proportions, before the U.S. weighs in, in any serious way. Not that I am keen on Bush getting involved.

[bemildred]

17. Bush seeks to contain violent conflict in Georgia

BEIJING (AP) — President Bush sought to contain the explosive conflict in Georgia on Sunday as the White House warned Russia that relations with the U.S. were in jeopardy.

The crisis over a breakaway province, South Ossetia, appeared to ebb as Georgian troops began retreating and honoring a cease-fire, a claim Russia disputed. U.S. officials said Moscow was only broadening its retaliation against Georgia for trying to take control of the region.

The sheer scope of Russia's military response has the Bush administration deeply worried. Russia on Sunday expanded its bombing blitz in areas of Georgia not central to the fighting.

"We have made it clear to the Russians that if the disproportionate and dangerous escalation on the Russian side continues, that this will have a significant long-term impact on U.S.-Russian relations," deputy national security adviser Jim Jeffrey told reporters.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j3b6xoPSXQAc5AoJwqPQ...

[JustAnotherGen]

20. Oh dear god!

"We have made it clear to the Russians that if the disproportionate and dangerous escalation on the Russian side continues, that this will have a significant long-term impact on U.S.-Russian relations," deputy national security adviser Jim Jeffrey told reporters.

They aren't going to listen to us! Us and Army are going to put a stop to it? Our Military that is stretched waaaaaaay to thin in Iraq right now? *raises eyebrow* A friend of mine is coming home from Iraq in a few weeks AND coming out of the army. He's seen Iraq 1, Somalia, Iraq 2 . . . he's done his 'duty'.

I don't want the US dragged into this - especially with that ineffectual idiot in the W.H. running the show.

[iamthebandfanman]

22. perhaps

the rest of europe wont stand for this and do something about it.. who knows...

georgia has been wanting to be in nato for a while now..

[JustAnotherGen]

24. Oh

I think they'll stand up. Surely they will. For Russia. They want that oil.

[iamthebandfanman]

25. well, the ukraine is already threatening

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080810/ap_on_re_eu/ukraine...

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Not surprising

They too were told no way jose by NATO when they wanted to join this April.

[bemildred]

26. Analysis: Russia sends a message to the West

Georgia lost a foolhardy gamble in thumbing its nose at its powerful neighbor Russia, which this weekend bombed Georgian cities and wrested control of its breakaway province of South Ossetia, according to Israeli Russian experts.

Russia had seen a "golden opportunity" to teach Georgia and its neighbors a lesson to "behave properly," said Hebrew University Russian expert Yitzhak Brudny, as he explained how a small military flare-up between Georgia and South Ossetia had turned into a major military exercise for Russia and drawn world attention away from the Olympics in Beijing.

With all eyes turned toward China, Georgia's pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili had hoped he could respond harshly to a skirmish with South Ossetia on Friday and try and regain control of the separatist province, said Russian expert Amnon Sella of the Interdisciplinary Center at Herzliya.

"It backfired on him because Georgia, which has a very small army, can't take on Russia," which had obviously been prepared for such a move given its swift response, said Sella.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=121810425947...

[bemildred]

27. Moscow on attack as desperate Georgian forces sue for peace

Georgia sued for peace with Russia yesterday but Moscow showed little sign of ending its military campaign over South Ossetia.

President Saakashvili appealed for international support as he ordered troops to pull out of the region, called an immediate ceasefire and urged Russia to begin talks to end hostilities.

In a televised address to the nation last night, the besieged leader said that the “existence of the Georgian state is under threat”.

Russia continued its offensive in a day of intensifying military action, while Georgia faced the threat of a second front opening up in its other breakaway region of Abkhazia.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/arti...

[Jack Rabbit]

29. Russia: ever the imperial power

After centuries of being an independent kingdom, Georgia was formally incorporated into the Russian Empire in 1801.

This did not change after the Bolshevik Revolution. The Communists gave lip service to the concept of "free determination of all peoples" unless those particular people had been subjects of the Tsar. The Chinese Communists have followed suit to this day.

Now that Communism has fallen in Russia and the old Russian Empire has shattered into independent states, the new Tsar Putin I shall take it upon himself to restore Russia to its great imperial glory.

One can understand how easy it was for the war criminal Bush to look into Putin's eyes and see his soul.