19 indictments for accused underwear-survey conman

[951-Riverside]

Source: The Associated Press

CINCINNATI -- A man accused of conning parents into allowing their children to remove clothing so he could conduct a "marketing survey" of their underwear has been indicted on 19 criminal counts involving 11 minors.

A Hamilton County grand jury indicted 44-year-old Ben Hawkins of suburban Cincinnati on charges including kidnapping, gross sexual imposition and attempted gross sexual imposition.

Police say Hawkins told the children he wanted to measure their underwear and then touched them sexually.

Read more: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_underwear_researcher.html

[Earth_First]

1. Uh...the parents were AWARE of this and ALLOWED this to ocurr...?! n/t

[rocktivity]

2. The story doesn't make that clear, unfortunately

The kidnapping charge suggests that he lured the children somehow.

I've heard or underwear "telemarketers" who like to call women and ask them increasingly intimate questions. That's bad enough!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Maine-ah]

30. heh, I used to work for a telemarketing company a long time ago

and we did an LL Bean survey on mens boxers.

[tomreedtoon]

6. You never heard of Michael Jackson?

Parents are genuine suckers for authority. And don't forget, like the Japanese said a long time ago, Americans are lazy and stupid.

[CrazyDude]

8. The parents thought this was some sort of innocuous research probably

Naive, perhaps. But does the perp deserve to spend the rest of life behind bars? Absolutely.

[AllHereTruth]

9. Wow "CrazyDude" - Life behind bars?

Are you fucking kidding me? You think, in your heart of hearts, that someone who looked at young kids in their underwear, deserves LIFE IN JAIL

What kind of a society do you want to live in? Maybe running a stop sign warrants that ones license be revoked.
Crack cocaine dealers be executed.
Murders be tared and feathered in public streets and burned alive.
Rapists be subject to castration at the hands of their victims.
How bout thieves have their left hand cut off?

Sure, a criminal justice system like this may drastically cut down violence and crime (to a certain extent). But at what cost? Ask yourself that next time you have a thought like what was echoed in your last post.

They have systems like this in parts of the Middle East. They had systems like this in the Soviet Union. Is that what you want?

Life behind bars, You really are "Crazy, Dude"

[CrazyDude]

10. The law calls for a maximum penalty of 105 years behind bars

This is not the law of the Soviet Union or parts of the Middle East; this is the law in the United States.

And I believe that those that prey on children sexually deserve such punishment. This activity is not normal. It's not the same as an 18 year old messing around with a 16 year old. This is an act of an adult intentionally abusing little children.

[AllHereTruth]

11. 105 years is harsh, helps nothing

Those children got looked at while in their underwear. Thats hardly worth 105 years, as you suggest.

Think about that please. Punishment to the extreme is not going to help those kids. Sitting them down and counseling them will. Teaching their parents a little common sense will.

105 years will not help anyone. This man has major issues that will do nothing but get worse while locked up. that is the truth.

[Stand and Fight]

12. Maybe you've got a point on 105 years being harsh...

However, you're apparently severely lacking in reading thoroughly, because you missed this little gem in the story:

Police said Hawkins told the children he wanted to measure their underwear and then touched them sexually.

This guy allegedly did a whole hell of a lot more than just LOOK at children in their underwear, bubba. And considering the risk he took doing so, I'd say he's dangerous in the long scheme of things. Best to keep him off the streets for a good long time.

[AllHereTruth]

14. Point well made "Stand and Fight" with the quote.

And i would agree with you that he is most likely a dangerous man, if left to do what he pleases in public life.
But my whole point was that a long-term prison sentence would do nothing to help either the perp or victim in this case. In a case like this, it is my opinion, that media coverage does more damage than the initial act ever would have.

Let us all take a breath, take a step back, and look this over for a second. From the looks of it, this man did no actual harm to these kids. Granted he committed some very, very immoral acts. but these kids will grow up to lead productive lives, if that is what they choose. They have not been physically harmed. They have not been raped. They have not had their innocence taken from them. They were looked at and possibly touched.

In the long term...gasp...they will be OK. For a crime like this is a long prison sentence helping anyone?

Shouldn't we, as a society, be proactive with people like these. Making sure they go back onto the streets with a calm clean head. rather than shoving them in an overpopulated prison system where he will most likely be raped and beaten, being a non-violent criminal. What happens when he gets out? Will he be "fixed" or just fucked.

[Stand and Fight]

28. I agree that the aim should be rehabilitation...

However, my concern is that given the amount of pedophiles who have come out and said that they can't stop themselves -- even after treatment. These same folks have stated that they continue to get the thoughts. If this guy would be so brash and stupid as to take this kind of a risk, who is to say that snatching a kid, having his way with them and then -- in his mind -- having to kill the kid to keep them quiet wouldn't be the next step if he went to prison and was released? I can think of one guy in particular who started out innocently enough, went to jail, was released and came back out and went completely off the deep end. Arthur Shawcross comes to mind... Maybe prison worsened his condition, maybe he was already a monster... I'd rather not take the risk with an innocent child.

[AllHereTruth]

29. Repeat this Repeat that

We should be concerned about the number of repeat drug users. Repeat car thieves. Repeat gangsters. Repeat murders. Repeat rapists. Repeat con-men.

Its not just pedophiles. The media has done a great job creating a "common criminal" for the general pop to hate. Its a way for us to join together...in hatred.

EDIT SPELLING

[madeline_con]

15. It wo'nt get better if he's free.

Pedophilia has no cure. It's only a matter of time unti lhe reoffends.

[High Plains]

20. You should quit posting that canard. It's simply not true.

As has been demonstrated repeatedly here on DU.

Here's just one link: http://www.ipce.info/newsletters/e_18/myths_facts_recidivism.htm

[madeline_con]

21. Seems when a kid is molested or killed, it is rarely the freak's first

offense. They can stay at your house and play with your kids, I don't want babyfuckers near mine!

[High Plains]

22. I'm sure there are repeat offenders, just as with any other crime.

Actually, sex offenders are less likely to reoffend than other types of criminals.

But don't let facts interfere with the intensity of your opinion.

[madeline_con]

23. While Punkerslut's essay from Modern Sexual Taboos and Their Morality

Might SEEM like a reputable source to you, a more research-based approach is in order for such an important topic.

The Association for Treatment of Sexual Abusers

Pedophiles, especially those who molest boys, or both boys and girls, are the sex offenders who have the highest recidivism (relapse) rates after incarceration and/or treatment.

http://www.atsa.com/ppPedophiles.html
...........................

The Mayo Clinic

TREATMENT OF SEXUAL OFFENDERS

No treatment for pedophilia is effective unless the pedophile is willing to engage in the treatment. Individuals can offend again while in active psychotherapy, while receiving pharmacologic treatment, and even after castration.17
Currently, much of the focus of pedophilic treatment is on stopping further offenses against children rather than altering the pedophile’s sexual orientation toward children.
Schober et al34 found that individuals still showed sexualinterest in children, as measured by the AASI, even after a year of combined psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy,whereas the pedophiles’ self-reported frequency of urgesand masturbation had decreased. These findings indicate that the urges can be managed, but the core attraction does not change.34,64...


Just as the prevalence of pedophilia is not accurately known, the rate of recidivism against a child is also unknown. Recidivism is a term with many definitions, which affect reported rates of repeated offenses...

The published rates of recidivism are in the range of 10% to 50% for pedophiles depending on their grouping. Some studies have reported that certain classes of pedophiles (eg, homosexual, nonrelated) have the highest rate for repeated offending compared with other sex offenders.
Generally, homosexual and bisexual pedophiles have higher recidivism rates than heterosexual
pedophiles...

The more deviant the sexual practices of the offender, the younger the abused child; the
more sociopathic or antisocial personality traits displayed, the greater the treatment noncompliance; and the greater the number of paraphilic interests reported by the offender,
the higher the likelihood of reoffense.16,91,94,99-


http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/pdf%2F8204%2F8204sa.pdf

.................

American Psychiatric Association. (pay per view)

Are Sex Offenders Treatable? A Research Overview
Linda S. Grossman, Ph.D., Brian Martis, M.D. and Christopher G. Fichtner, M.D.

From the Abstract:

Problems in sex offender research

Sex offenders' self-reports or significant others' reports are not reliable indexes of recidivism (10,11). Arrest records underreport sexual offenses (5,12,13); the vast majority of sexual offenses, estimated at greater than 93 percent, are never reported to the police, and fewer than 1 percent of sex offenders are arrested (14). Even fewer are convicted. Arrest and conviction records are also affected by administrative policies that determine which subjects are hospitalized rather than incarcerated. Furthermore, many sex offenders plea bargain—that is, they plead guilty to lesser charges of crimes that are not sexual offenses.

http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/50/3/349

...........................


Corrections Reasearch and Development

Not all child molesters recidivated at the same rate. The highest rate of recidivism
(77%) was for those with previous sexual offenses, who selected extrafamilial boy
victims, and who were never married.

http://ww2.ps-sp.gc.ca/publications/corrections/pdf/199670_e.pdf

[AllHereTruth]

25. I can see i hit a nerve. For that i do apologize.

In retrospect i should have taken a bit more time in my first post to clearly state where i lie on this issue, in respect to the above case.

The research showing high rate of repeat offense is overwhelming, i admit that. I am not here to argue on that fact. What i was attempting to get across was, that in my opinion, throwing someone in prison for the rest of their lives for something they may not be able to control is not right. It is immoral. It is unjust.

I am not defending this man, if it comes off that way i again apologize. I am not defending his actions. I am just stating that rehabilitation should come first in all situations. If it appears rehabilitation is not working then, and only then, should long term incarnation be looked at.

In this country in particular we have become too apt, as a society, to say "Lock him up and throw away the key." Without first attempting to tackle the problem. By doing this all we do is create more prisons, which in turn leads to more criminals.

By living in a Criminal or non criminal society we create classes of citizens.

Maybe i tend to see the good in people before condemning them to lifelong hell behind bars. If that makes me, in turn a bad person then so be it. If that is wrong in any way, please don't hesitate to correct me.

This is why my original post rebutting "105 years behind bars" was written in haste and much emotion. I should have taken a second to breath and lay out my thoughts and views clearer. In the future i will not make the same mistake.

[AllHereTruth]

26. "I don't want babyfuckers near mine!"

When a gang shooting takes the life of an innocent civilian it is rarely the gangs first violent act.

When a drunk driver runs a family off the road it is rarely the drivers first time driving under the influence.

Now, i would love to live in a world free from all violence and stupidity. That does not mean we should lock up everyone who commits a crime for long periods.

Does this make sense? Just because someone committed a crime does not mean they are inherently bad people. We need to understand why a crime was committed before shouting "I don't want babyfuckers near mine!"

[Richard Steele]

18. After so many folks have corrected your error, I can only assume its continuance is deliberate.

So, the real question is: Why are you lying about what this guy did?

[superconnected]

27. He molested them while he was at it

He repeated the offense over and over.

He'll find another way to molest kids.

[maxsolomon]

3. go cincinnati!

i'm feeling the hometown pride!

and 44-year old pride - WTF.

[AllHereTruth]

4. I have to admit, i LoL IRL

is that wrong of me?

First off i find it funny as all hell this niche story, involving no actual harm done, made its way into the MM. Secondly, How stupid do you have to be as a parent to allow a random to "survey" your child's underwear. Thirdly, the "kidnapping" charge leads me to believe these kids were allowed to be alone with this man.

I mean, come on, if anything these parents should be getting national attention for utter incompetence.

[CrazyDude]

7. Preying on children is no harm done?

You've got to be kidding me.

[Stand and Fight]

13. Once more, read the damn story!

He touched these kids sexually... When people post crap on here without reading the whole story, it's a bloody embarrassment. You make yourself seem like a jack-ass when you're running around here posting "no ACTUAL harm done". Get a fucking grip! He touched the kids and took pictures of them. One could also infer that he manuavered himself into a trusted position and took advantage of the kids. The parents are naive fools, yes.

As to this making it's way into the mainstream media, why shouldn't it?

If anyone should be getting attention, it's you for your utter lack of basic reading skills.

[BobTheSubgenius]

5. I can't believe people this stupid could breed.

Feh!

[Skittles]

17. it doesn't take any intelligence to breed n/t

[madeline_con]

16. then he would tell parents he needed to be alone with the children for research

The parents should be charged with child endangerment and negligence.

[raebrek]

19. Okay I have to ask

Just what does "Touch them sexually" mean? I googled it and can not determine what it means. It sounds bad but what exactly is it?

Raebrek!!!

[Anon in Cincy]

24. Missing Information

You folks are missing a critical piece of information on this story. Mr. Hawkins was my neighbor. This is his 3rd conviction as a child sex offender in 10 years. I didn't even know about the first two since he somehow managed to work the system to keep himself OFF the Sex Offender's List. He now falls under the "three strikes and you're out" rule. Although he seemed a decent neighbor, I can't say I'll miss him in the neighborhood. He also has a medical condition that he has to feed himself by IV. He won't last long in prison.