Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Suspect in 2001 anthrax attacks kills himself

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:04 AM
Original message
Suspect in 2001 anthrax attacks kills himself
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:27 AM by rainbow4321
Source: LA Times

One of the nation's top biodefense researchers has died in Maryland from an apparent suicide, just as the Justice Department was to file criminal charges against him in the anthrax mailing assaults of 2001 that killed five, the Los Angeles Times has learned.

Bruce E. Ivins, 62, who for the past 18 years worked at the government's elite biodefense research laboratories at Fort Detrick, Md., had been informed of the impending prosecution, people familiar with Ivins, his suspicious death and with the FBI investigation said.

<snip>

Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick Memorial Hospital after having ingested a massive dose of prescription Tylenol mixed with codeine, said a friend and colleague who declined to be identified out of concern, he said, that he would be harassed by the FBI.

The death -- without any mention of suicide -- was announced to Ivins' colleagues at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, or USAMRIID, through a staffwide e-mail.


Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-su...



Another link in case the LA Times doesn't keep working correctly:

http://www.star-telegram.com/national_news/story/800551...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. anybody remember the Pat Leahy - Mukasey exchange on this.
Hmmmmm

:tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. No. Missed that one. Fill me in?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. here ya go
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. thanks for pulling that up. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
164. That makes the suicide very suspect
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #164
213. It looks like a cleanup of all the witnesses to the crime
anybody connected are systematically being killed off right before our eyes

Ivins and the Brigadier General all close together

WOW
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeighAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #164
217. Yep. I'll bet he was murdered and it was made to look like suicide
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
243. They know but can't do anything because their hands are tied by powerful dangerous people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #243
245. I just saw Michael Clayton tonight...
sometimes things have a way of working themselves out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. No. What was it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Here's the link - from the oversight hearing July 9
http://judiciary.senate.gov/webcast/judiciary07092008-0...

Go to 2 hr 47 minutes in.

I'm not sure what it's all about but remember someone mentioning it on DU and watching it - there is a lot going on between the lines there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
55. Thank you! Since I don't have C-span II on my TV, I now miss a lot of stuff ---
It definitely sounds like Leahy is saying, "What the hell is going on?" and why does he

as a victim have to raise this issue? And, it looked like he was showing his exasperation

with Mukasey and was letting him know that -- and next, a private meeting.

IMO, all the strings lead to and are being pulled by the White House ---

Mukasey is a criminal participant in all of this now --- he's covering up.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #55
205. I'm sorry, but we need more evidence to implicate the White House...
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 02:18 PM by AntiFascist
with involvement. This case appears, from all the evidence, to be nothing more than an angry scientist who had it in for liberals, just like the shooter at the Unitarian Church. It was a sham of the judicial system and media coverage that this case did not receive more attention while being investigated and the White House certainly must have capitalized off of the fear generated by the events. This is likely what Leahy was upset about, but if there was more involvement than that then they certainly covered their tracks well.

The accused had a long history of homicidal threats (according to the NY Times), even his brother gave testimony to his omnipotent personality. Are you implying that the Bush criminals forced him, somehow, to overdose on Tylenol?

On edit: On second thought, it appears that ABC News has provided much more in depth reporting (not surprising that someone scoops the NY Times). If, in fact, the suicidal scientist was innocent, then that is a whole different can of worms:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #205
228. What . . . ???
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 09:53 PM by defendandprotect

Sorry, but this closed down Congress for more than three months . . .

that wasn't accidental, occurring immediately after 9/11 and while questions re

the 200 steal were still raging --- !!!

It was intended to break communication between citizens and the Congress --

and it did for from 3 months to 6 months and more. They're still irradiating mail.


We have no idea who might have done this yet you're describing "an angry scientist" . . .

yet the NOTES suggest a Muslim, don't they?

This wasn't investigated because the Cheney/Bush WH didn't want it investigated ---

and they made sure that they had AG's who wouldn't investigate it ---

We did find out rather immediately that the STRAIN of ANTHRAX CAME FROM OUR MILITARY

LABS . . . so it was rather unlikely that Bin Laden was floating around there looking

for the light switch and stealing Anthrax!

This is likely what Leahy was upset about...

Are you aware of the exchange between Cheney and Leahy on the floor of the Senate where

Cheney told Leahy to "Go Fuck yourself . . . " --???

And Cheney and Daschle were two liberals standing in the way of the Patriot Act . . .

which by the way seems to have been written BEFORE 9/11--!!!

And how would you possibly know this . . .

but if there was more involvement than that then they certainly covered their tracks well.

Actually, cover-ups are intended to cover tracks.

The accused had a long history of homicidal threats (according to the NY Times), even his brother gave testimony to his omnipotent personality. Are you implying that the Bush criminals forced him, somehow, to overdose on Tylenol?

On edit: On second thought, it appears that ABC News has provided much more in depth reporting (not surprising that someone scoops the NY Times). If, in fact, the suicidal scientist was innocent, then that is a whole different can of worms:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...


Did I say "cover-up" . . . that's exactly what your post reminds me of -- nice try!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #228
232. I'm not covering anything up...

actually I'm trying to elicit response, and I see in your case I've succeeded.

Yes, various sources (likely working in league with the Administration) did try to lie and coverup the actual source of the anthrax, pointing instead to Saddam Hussein. This is certainly a serious enough crime, but why push this further into conspiracy theory terroritory when you already have something solid to work with? If Cheney (or other higher-ups) were working with this scientist to send the anthrax then we need evidence, or at least whistle-blowers to come forward.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #232
233. You mean you're trying to be provocative . . . ?
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 11:05 PM by defendandprotect
I didn't see anyone covering up the SOURCE of the Anthrax . . .
We knew very quickly that the STRAIN came from our own military labs ---
Something a scientist would have understood was going to happen --


Yes, like 9/11, they did try to hook the event to Iraq -- which is further indication
that it's another FALSE FLAG operation --- like 9/11.

"Serious enough crime" . . . you still doln't seem to be getting the reality of what
it accomplished in shutting down Congress for 6 months right after the 200 steal and 9/11 -- ????

"Conspiracy theory" . . . you're joking, right --- ?
Conspiracy is the basis of our law ---
Conspiracy is what they just got Scooter for ---
Conspiracy is what they suggest Bin Laden and the alleged hijackers were involved in --

And, you don't think this would be a "conspiracy" if any scientist at the military lab
had done it . . . . you imagine that person would have done this completely alone?
While recognizing how TRACEABLE the anthrax was?

What I am saying to you is that it is more than likely that Bush/Cheney are responsible
for shutting down Congress with Anthrax . . . but that we have no idea of specifics.

I would imagine that quite a few were involved --- and that probably many more have some
knowledge of what went down.

Neither am I suggesting that we throw Cheney in prison without evidence --
but you can always begin with the Bush/Cheney --- when you're looking for evil doers.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #233
244. Usually I'm on the side of pushing for the conspiracy...

but in this case I think we have something really solid that we can sink our teeth into and I want to help play devil's advocate so that we don't fall into the trap of being marginalized as so-called CT-theorists.

I approached my first post above from the point of view of what I had initially read in the AP/NY Times report which, not surprisingly, paints Ivins as having acting alone. There now seems to be additional reports that Ivins had a history of psychological problems, he wrote letters to the editor with right-wing religious overtones, his therapist claims that he had secret homocidal tendencies, his brother even claims that Ivins thought he was omnipotent...this does not look good for building a case that this guy was being paid by the Bush criminals to do what he did. I'm not saying it is impossible, and Larisa presents the best arguments I have seen that this could be a larger conspiracy.

From a conspiratorial viewpoint the more intriguing aspect to this story, which Keith Olbermann chose to focus on, was the use of this incident by media informers, and no less than Senator McCain, to attempt to prove that Saddam Hussein was threatening us with weapons of mass destruction, and thus there was reason to go to war with Iraq. This is one issue that should be investigated where there is very clear evidence of conspiracy. Arguing about Ivins' motivations, or whether he really was responsible, is distracting everyone from this critical issue, which would also add to the mass of evidence supporting impeachment proceedings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #244
247. Coincidence theories are more "tinfoil" these days . . ..
while "conspiracy theories" are are well understood and respected ---

Did you ever read what they said about Oswald . . . ?

And Oswald was actually "working for the CIA on high level projects and probably also for the
FBI" ---

The same people who told us that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11 are the same people who
did this . . .

that is Bush/Cheney ---

The only question is who helped them --- and Ivins looks like an innocent man ---






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #247
249. It should be very clear by now that there was a conspiracy behind Oswald...

with all of the mobster/CIA confessions, and no less than Gerald Ford stating that LBJ was involved while on his deathbed. The problem is most people are jaded by now from ALL the information, and it happened so long ago.

I do see similarities with the JFK asssassination: Oswald was a patsy who wasn't aware of the entire plot, and the plotters were more of a rogue group and not a tightly interwoven government operation (the group that was involved with assassination plans for Castro).

The anthrax was not as well planned, and the source was easily traced back to a government lab.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #249
250. Still . . .
the American public hasn't been told that Oswald was CIA ---
"He was employed by the CIA working on high level assignments and probably also for the FBI"-

That's the finding of the Tunnheim panel which presumably saw his work records, his IRS info,
his W-2 forms which were denied to reporters and the public at time of the coup.

I'm just reading a book by James Earl Ray's brother --- and it also looks like he
was under CIA control from his days in military -- and probably run thru McGill-Canada
hynotic programs. Presume you're familiar with Naomi Klein's book -- "Shock & Awe"

That's not to say that Ray had anything to do with killing MLK, Jr. - just a "patsy"--

Gerald Ford, himself, was involved in cover-up the JFK/coup on American government --
There was a bullet wound in the president's back . . . IN HIS RIGHT SHOULDER . . .
There was no outlet for it --

There was an ENTRY wound in the president's neck - no outlet --

Ford helped move the shoulder wound over and up in order to create the "Magic Bullet" --

Let me assure you that '63 was momentous and not that long ago for those of us who lived
in that time -- and that event is what has led to the takeover of government you see so
clearly now.

The Anthrax events were clumsy -- probably intended to look that way --- amateurish.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
178. yeah, alot going on bts - it always seems to be a 'suicide'
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 11:38 AM by katty
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. Who, What, When, Where?


ANYONE BELIEVE THIS SHIT?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Dunno. It's easy to believe that the type of coward who would mail murder rather than
commit it in person would also take the suicide train rather than facing the consequences. Something anonymous and cowardly in both acts.

On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to believe anything coming out of the Bush administration, especially when a suspect becomes too dead to defend himself.

Need more details before I even make up my mind to decide what I believe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
76. Remeber Cheney's revision of the anthrax attacks?
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 02:01 AM by Cobalt-60
Now Dick says he got anthrax too.
It would make him the only fascist target.
Not a chance.
OFC given their record Id be a fool to listen to much less believe anything
out of their lie holes.
Cheney and Bush are clearly guilty of attempted assassination by Anthrax.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #76
184. Cheney was lying, but I can't say they did it.
Too many years as an historian to make conclusions without facts.

Whoever did it was trying to "assist" Bust, whether under orders or as some rogue asshole, though. The media has not covered that at all. Someone tried to flip the Senate back to Republican control and scare the media at the same time. Or punish them.

One interesting comment in that article came from the dead guy's brother, who said his brother had an omnipotence complex. Smart, sheltered man with strong opinions... That fits the profile. Then again, if Cheney was behind it, he'd make sure it fit the profile.

But on Cheney's claims that he was targeted, I don't believe him, not one bit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
163. Or is this a case of a convenient suicide being used to wrap up the
case? Read the article; the man had been hospitalized for depression. It's estimated that 15% of those with depression end up committing suicide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #163
186. I read it in detail.
The depression started as soon as the authorities turned their attentions on him. That, combined with guilt, could have caused the depression. Or, as you say, not. Not conclusive, either way. Still need more input.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #186
227. And yet the FBI never investigated the one man actually CAUGHT ON THE SECURITY SYSTEM
entering the storage area where the anthrax used in the letters was stored, without proper authorization and after being fired from his job over a racially motivated attack on an Egyptian co-worker.

Fort Detrick's anthrax mystery
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/01/26/assa...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
195. So suicide is a cowardly act ? thank you for being so judgemental
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #195
199. Check out the mirror when you accuse someone of being judgemental.
I'm getting sick of idiots. I said committing suicide rather than facing charges was cowardly. Said it really plain and straightforward-like. You have to be looking for a fight to have missed that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
112. Right - another convenient 'suicide' to CLOSE ANOTHER FOCKING CASE FOR BFEE.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. The guy seems to have known his stuff
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:10 AM by bigworld
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
188. hmmmm... the man who knew too much
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. Oh. My. GOD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. Recent Advances in the Development of an Improved, Human Anthrax Vaccine
He just wrote this scientific paper.
http://en.scientificcommons.org/19873112
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. He complained to the Government in 2001 for bad Anthrax Bio Labs
Posted 10/13/2004 10:29 PM Updated 10/14/2004 3:21 AM





Anthrax slip-ups raise fears about planned biolabs
By Dan Vergano and Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY


Bruce Ivins was troubled by the dust, dirt and clutter on his officemate's desk, and not just because it looked messy. He suspected the dust was laced with anthrax.


In 2001, a scientist opens a letter addressed to Sen. Patrick Leahy that contained anthrax.
AP file photo
And he was in a position to know. Ivins, a biodefense expert, and his officemate were deeply involved in Operation Noble Eagle the government's response to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that killed almost 3,000 Americans and the anthrax attacks that killed five more less than a month later.

It was December 2001. Ivins, an authority on anthrax, was one of the handful of researchers at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) at Fort Detrick, Md., who prepared spores of the deadly bacteria to test anthrax vaccines in animals. He knew enough to grow alarmed when his officemate complained, as she had frequently of late, about sloppy handling of samples coming into the lab that could be tainted with anthrax.

"I swabbed approximately 20 areas of (her) desk, including the telephone computer and desktop," Ivins later reported to Army investigators. Half of the samples, he found, "were suspicious for anthrax," betraying the clumpy brown appearance of anthrax colonies under a microscope.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-10-13-anthrax-...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. :-()
:wow:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
66. The FBI sure looks dumb.
There was Ames strain Anthrax all over his office. He decided to clean it up himself and not report it ("I had no desire to cry wolf," he later told an Army investigator).

But they went after Hatfill instead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #66
169. A little off-topic, but who the hell ever cleared Hatfill to work
with this stuff in the first place? He had too many associations with the white supremacist governments in Rhodesia and South Africa for my taste! Not to mention, the guy padded his resume and no one caught it on the security clearance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hatfill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerOstrich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #16
107. Interesting.....
I didn't ever pickup on the Anthrax investigation as being part of "Operation Noble Eagle". Obviously, at least USA today did in 2004..... I just googled "Operation Noble Eagle" and found virtually no mention of the Anthrax investigation (even in the post analysis papers)....then again I didn't read a lot of them...I have to get ready for work soon...but for some reason I find that an interesting tid-bit....thanks for posting the article....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #107
139. Operation Noble Eagle
It seems to officially be a NORAD operation, allowing Rumsfeld to call up army reserves & military planes to patrol the skies. The operation began on Sept. 14, 01. There's no mention of an anthrax component in the Wiki or Global Security links.

"Operation Noble Eagle

President George W. Bush authorized a partial mobilization of the reserves Sept. 15 for homeland defense and civil support missions in response to the terrorist attacks Sept. 11 at the New York World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

While the authorization legally allows Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to call up to a million reserve soldiers, airmen, sailors, Marines and Coast Guard members for up to two years of active duty, service chiefs said they only need about 35,000 between them for the stated missions collectively dubbed Operation Noble Eagle.

The Army share of the intial presidential order was about 10,000 soldiers from the Army Reserve and National Guard Bureau. The Air Force planned to call up around 13,000 reservists; the Navy, 3,000; the Marine Corps, 7,500; and the Coast Guard, 2,000.

The Air National Guard kept two fighters flying over New York and four over Washington 24 hours a day, while also is flying random patrols over other major cities. As of mid-January 2002 more than 13,000 homeland defense flights had been flown since 11 September 2001, at an estimated cost of about $325 million. About 26 bases around the country have fighters armed and ready to scramble on 10 minutes notice. The number of air defense fighters on alert had dropped from 5,800 in 1958 to just 20 aircraft nationwide by early 2001. Since the 11 September attacks, the number increased to more than 100 fighers."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/noble-eagle-...

Operation Noble Eagle is part of the "Garden Plot" contingency plan, which deals w/the military's response to civil disturbances. That larger plan is run by NORTHCOM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Garden_Plot

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
60. This from someone on the internet tubes in 2004...
"ANother note, the company, SRI, that did the army's testing for squalene - they made the news recently when they allegedly - now get this, if you can believe it - sent the AMes strain (THE LETTER STRAIN) of anthrax out to a research institute on the west coast. It was supposed to be killed bacteria, but the place that got it claimed the strain was really alive and killed mice. We'll see how this one goes.

Also, Bruce Ivins had ABSOLUTELY NO CREDENTIALS as a vaccine developer or immunologist when he was working on a vaccine for anthrax. You would think that the military would at least hire competent people to work on products that might go into soldiers. It's known that he used experimental products from several corporations - I wonder if anyone has looked to see if Kickbacks (under the table payments of money) might have occurred. It wouldn't be the first time that somebody working for the military, or even the government, profitted personally at the expense of the public, or, in this case, the soldiers."



http://forums.perseusbooksgroup.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph...

Interesting if true.

People suspect Cheney is involved, but there were a lot of other corporations and individuals thats stood to gain from a huge bioterror scare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #60
70. This guy was a real piece of work.
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 01:59 AM by girl gone mad
Here's an excerpt from "Vaccine A: The Covert Government Experiment That's Killing Our Soldiers--And Why GI's Are Only The First Victims"



"This was Rube Goldberg immunology. The Army's vaccine whiz kids had devised the most convoluted, expensive and time-consuming way conceivable to make a virtually identical productprotective antigenand then added material that essentially diverted the immune system's attention away to antigens unrelated to anthrax. Fort Detrick's new, souped-up single protein vaccine, like the old one, did nothing to induce an immune response to the organism itself, which could still feed, secrete toxins and multiply inside a vaccinated host. There was also one more flaw in this design: oils are potentially toxic, and the Fort Detrick team knew it. In Bruce Ivins' frequently cited paper on the Army's pursuit of an improved human anthrax vaccine, he noted that oil adjuvants "can provoke toxic, allergic, ulcerative, or lethal reactions." This should have prevented him from committing Fort Detrick to an oil-boosted anthrax vaccine in the first place, but for reasons that Ivins has never publicly disclosed, it did not deter him. Neither he nor anyone else who worked on this vaccine at Fort Detrick has published an explanation for why they did this."


Edit: The full book is available online here: http://books.google.com/books?id=Irw82Iv5nyoC&printsec=...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #70
84. They killed soldiers with that garbage, didn't they?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #60
177. Two that come to mind are Bayer and SAIC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. Suicide? Or
Were certain people afraid he may crack being incarcerated?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
52. My thought exactly. ..n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
58. I'm with you on that . . . the guy has been a "suspect" for 7 years . . . !!!!
While Hatfill has been the up-front suspect . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Winston. Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
61. Cheney gets anti-antrax cipro one week before first antrax attack.
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 01:47 AM by Winston.
"On the night of the Sept. 11 attacks, the White House Medical Office dispensed Cipro to staff accompanying Vice President Dick Cheney as he was secreted off to the safety of Camp David, and told them it was "a precaution," according to one person directly involved."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011023/...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #61
200. Cipro producer -- BioPort -- Owned by Admiral Crowe, Carlyle Group, Bin Laden Family
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 02:01 PM by leveymg

September 1998: A small government-owned lab in Michigan engaged in developing an anthrax vaccine is bought for $24.8 million by a secretive group of "investors" calling themselves BioPort. BioPort investors include George Bush Sr, James Baker III, and Frank Carlucci under the name of the Carlyle Group. It also includes Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., former chair of the joint chiefs of staff under Reagan who also served as US ambassador to Britain under President Clinton. According to Maj. Glenn MacDonald USAR, Crowe was one of the thugs back in the Reagan dark ages who sold Saddam Hussein anthrax warfare technology in the hopes Iraq would unleash the disease on Iran.

Another major BioPort stockholder is ex-Prime Minister of the UK John Major. We bet Tony Blair knows all about it -if indeed he isn't a silent stock partner. And then there's Fuad El-Hibril, a man who is close to the bin Laden family and who in the past has expressed sympathy for OBL. El-Hibril became BioPort's CEO. El-Hibri was based in England in the 1990s, where he operated a vaccine manufacturing company called Porton Products International of Porton Down, in the UK. One of the anthrax strains originating from Ft. Detrick and related to the isolates used in the anthrax attacks is called the Porton strain for the Porton lab. In a chart in Timothy Read's article in Science, one of the possible routes shown for the anthrax that ended up in the attacks was via Porton Down.

Two weeks later: (Still Sept. 1998): BioPort lands exclusive Department of Defense contract worth $45 million to produce an anthrax vaccine. The DOD agrees to pay three times the cost of the original contract, upping payment for vaccine from $3.50 a dose to $10 a dose.
November, 1998: Crowe and Bush, Sr. travel to Saudi Arabia where they meet with members of the bin Laden family.

Ongoing, from 1997 through Oct. 2001: BioPort repeatedly fails to pass FDA inspections. These inspections were described by one critic as "an unmitigated disaster," revealing contamination, inadequate record-keeping and unapproved procedures. Several vaccine batches failed sterility tests and were quarantined (by the way, the Bush administration later gave BioPort permission to administer vaccines from these contaminated batches to the American public -see below). The company had to subcontract Hollister-Stier Laboratories in Spokane, Wash., to fill the vaccine vials when its own procedures kept failing. Yet though Hollister-Stier has been the second hand supplier of the vaccine now for many months and has passed its FDA inspections, the DOD continued to pump millions into keeping BIOPORT artificially resuscitated. So quality in this man's government is not only NOT rewarded, it is exploited to keep the evil-and-or-inept propped up.

March 1999: A statement on anthrax vaccine presented to Congress reveals the outrageous history of BioPort, an Army cover-up of negative reactions to the vaccine, and that at least 50 different types of adverse reactions associated with the vaccine. The report also reveals (a finding also reported in European medical journals, including the "Lancet") that the ONLY population of veterans engaged in the Gulf War action who were not afflicted by any cases of Gulf War Syndrome were the French -who were also the ONLY population of GW soldiers who did not receive the vaccine. Now has anyone ever investigated THAT smoking gun? Yeah, right, and the Pope's a Fiji Islander.
Statement to Congress: Gulf War vets page:

February 17, 2000: Congressional report recommends terminating anthrax vaccine program due to BoPort's mismanagement and injury reports.

July 2000: Two Congressional hearings are held on BioPort, including one conducted by the House Armed Services Committee It is revealed that the company has engaged in Enron-style bookkeeping, manipulating earnings projections while having money funneled to them from the Pentagon against recommendations.

November, 2000: The Hartford Courant reveals that BioPort has failed to track deadly reactions in people receiving its anthrax vaccine, including deaths. Approximately 1,200 servicemen and women have had severe reactions, with some deaths traceable to the vaccine. US Rep. Christopher Shays of Ct. accuses BioPort of indifference to the dangers of its product: "Good men and women willing to serve and die for their country are being made needlessly ill."

July 2001: FDA gives BioPort the go-ahead to use quarantined lots of anthrax vaccine on the public in the event of an attack -in essence, giving the company permission to dump potentially dangerous vaccines that had failed to pass inspections on Americans, and pocketing otherwise lost profits. Petition started to demand BioPort destroy these potentially lethal vaccines.

August 2001: White house starts passing out Cipro to staff. Recipients reportedly include Cheney and Bush

September 2001: Associated Press suggests that Battelle Memorial Institute in West Jefferson, Ohio is engaged in "Operation Jefferson," a secret project in which "a new and highly lethal strain of anthrax" was being developed at its labs. Around this same time, Battelle hired an anthrax expert, William C. Patrick III, to determine the ways, means, and results of mailing powdered anthrax through the post. Battelle is reputed to have a "working relationship" with BioPort. Battelle and Bioport , who have a "working relationship" are considered the real "chief suspects" by some.

September 2001: The first anthrax attack occurs, striking down a man in Florida.

October 2001: BioPort fails yet another FDA inspection.

October 2001: Bush sends national guard to "protect" BioPort round the clock -while failing to deploy any troops to protect nuclear power plants or other facilities engaged in biological warfare research.

October 2001: Donald Rumsfeld pushes to get BioPort approved over FDA objections...he's an expert, of course. He forced the approval of aspartame while CEO of Searle over FDA objections, a move that ultimately made billions for the corporation. Today, complaints of health problems related to aspartame account for more than half of all health-related adverse product complaints made to the FDA.
Falsification of aspartame results Rumsfeld and Conlon's role in the deception

December 2001: Manuals from BioPort are discovered in an Al Queda hideout in Afghanistan -the report disappears from mainstream news within 24 hours.

January 2002: Bush administration gives BioPort green light to start shipping anthrax vaccine.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



Small world, isn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #200
202. Remember "suicide" of Dr. David Kelly? BioPort is spin-off of Porton Down, UK bioweapons plant
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 02:20 PM by leveymg
where Kelly worked. The number of bioweapons scientists is small, but a startlingly high percentage of them have worked on the "Iraq WMD" program, and died in recent years.

US, UK Built "Replica" Iraqi DirtyBomb and Germ Labs Pre-War
by leveymg
Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 12:31:57 PM PDT
2002 Death of Long-Time Associate of Dr. David Kelly Raises New Questions

The UK Guardian revealed Monday that the US and Britain jointly ran a highly secret program to build radiological "Dirty Bombs". A 2002 accidental detonation killed a British scientist, a long-time colleague of Dr. David Kelly, whose death a year later led to the major scandal over the British Government's role in the Iraq WMD deception.

Before the invasion, Dr. Steven Hatfill, the accused anthrax killer, had headed a parallel U.S. program to contruct "replica" Iraqi bioweapons trailers of the type which never existed in Iraq, but which the Bush and Blair governments used to justify the invasion.

Judy Miller was a key common figure in both the Kelly and Hatfill stories, one which also involves former Undersecratary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone and Gen. Petraeus in the fraudulent program to sell the world on the invasion of Iraq.

Intro

2002 Death of Long-Time Associate of Dr. David Kelly Raises New Questions

The UK Guardian revealed Monday that the US and Britain jointly ran a highly secret program to build radiological "Dirty Bombs". A 2002 accidental detonation killed a British scientist, a long-time colleague of Dr. David Kelly, whose death a year later led to the major scandal over the British Government's role in the Iraq WMD deception.

Before the invasion, Dr. Steven Hatfill, the accused anthrax killer, had headed a parallel U.S. program to contruct "replica" Iraqi bioweapons trailers of the type which never existed in Iraq, but which the Bush and Blair governments used to justify the invasion.

Judy Miller was a key common figure in both the Kelly and Hatfill stories, one which also involves former Undersecratary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone and Gen. Petraeus in the fraudulent program to sell the world on the invasion of Iraq.

Much more below . . .

URL: http:/ /
Label: Image

leveymg's diary :: ::
That joint dirty bomb construction program was made public for the first time in a long-delayed court inquest into the June 2002 death of a British weapons expert, who died of injuries from the accidental explosion of one of these devices at a secret test site in south-eastern England.

The victim worked in the same UK weapons program for some 25 years with Dr. David Kelly, who died a year later amid a scandal that followed his leak of "sexed-up" WMD intelligence, exaggerating evidence that Iraq was building mobile biowarfare laboratories. The scandal exposed the British role in falsifying intelligence used by the Bush and Blair Administrations to invade Iraq in March, 2003.

Saddam Hussein's Iraq, along with al-Qaeda, had been accused of developing both radiological dirty-bombs and biological warfare programs.

A parallel U.S. biological weapons program employed Steven Hatfill, a South Africa germ warfare expert, who was treated as the prime suspect in the anthrax attacks that immediately followed 9/11. Before the invasion, the Pentagon built several trailers to match the description provided by "Curveball" and other Iraqi defectors.

Yet another strange twist in this story is the role of Judith Miller, the NYT reporter who originally broke the story about Hatfill's role in the Iraqi WMD replicas also one of the last journalists who Dr. Kelly communicated with before his controversial death.

***

Other prominent names attach to the WMD deceptions that sprang from these replication programs, including Steven Cambone and General Petraeus.

The Guardian reports about the deadly 2002 dirty bomb accident: http://www.guardian.co.uk /...

Curious case of the dead scientist and the bomb experiment
Ian Cobain
The Guardian,
Monday March 24 2008

A mysterious bomb-making experiment that ended with the accidental death of a government scientist has remained an official secret for more than five years, leaving his family in the dark about what went wrong. Terry Jupp, a scientist with the Ministry of Defence, was engulfed in flames during a joint Anglo-American counter-terrorism project intended to discover more about al-Qaida's bomb-making capacities.

There has been no inquest into his death, as the coroner has been waiting for the MoD to disclose information about the incident. An attempt to prosecute the scientist's manager for manslaughter ended when prosecutors said they were withdrawing the charge, but said the case was too "sensitive" to explain that decision in open court.

The Guardian has established that Jupp was a member of a small team of British and US scientists making bombs from ingredients of the sort that terrorists could obtain. There is also evidence pointing to experiments to discover more about radiological dispersal devices - so-called dirty bombs - which use conventional explosives to scatter radioactive material.

...

Crown Prosecution Service sources said the case was hampered because one of the American scientists refused to testify, while other officials said there was concern in both countries that a trial could expose the nature of the experiment.

...

Asked whether it has carried out such experiments at Shoeburyness, the MoD would say only: "The Dstl is involved in classified work that is of national importance, protecting UK armed forces and the public from very real threats." What is clear is that Shoeburyness has hosted some highly unusual activities involving radioactive material.

***

A major twist in this report, not yet pointed out in the Guardian or any other major media, is the tie in with the role of Steven Hatfill in a contemporary U.S. program. Both projects appear to have been started in 2000. Hatfill is best known as the prime suspect in the Ames strain anthrax attacks. Hatfill, a South African, worked at the US Army's chemical biological warfare (CBW) center at Ft. Detrick, MD. Dr. Kelly was an expert on international CBW programs, and had worked for 25 years for British in that field. Among Hatfill's duties for the Army was to "replicate" the very same mobile biological warfare trailers which Iraq was accused of possessing -- another uncanny coincidence.

SNIP



More notable suicides among that group. This is the 45th (or is it 47th?) unnatural death of biochemists, worldwide, since 2001: http://www.businessreform.com/article.php?articleID=107...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #200
204. !!!
:tinfoilhat:

:scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #200
207. o.m.g!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
80. bingo. nt
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
85. Ah, the convenient suicide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debunkthelies Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #85
212. I Wonder
How much he knew and who was afraid of his arrest? :hide: Very convenient for sure, the bodies just keep piling up. :shrug: At least he didn't hang himself that would have been too obvious. :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #212
246. The CSI shows have been showing ways to detect phony hanging suicides.
Professionals gotta stay one step ahead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
93. Tylenol is ALWAYS the first choice for suicidal top bioweapons experts
because Tylenol is always SO lethally effective. Every bioweapons expert knows that.

And it's so quick, too.

Incidentally, for the terminally gullible and sarcasm-impaired, Tylenol is neither reliably lethal nor quick.

But bioweapons experts wouldn't know a better way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #93
130. It was Tylenol with Codine. That can be lethal,
You go to sleep and stop breathing. Just like with anyother opiate overdose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #130
141. Even among opiates
Codeine?
Used to be that people would die from the AceT hepato-toxicity.

There are faster, far more effective ways hanging around a lab.
We used to have a 1 lb jar of pure barbituate as a stain in our medlab.

One stupid jerk using Tylenol(tm) is understandable, mx weapons experts?
That seems odd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #141
149. He's attacking two organs you can't live without. Liver and lungs.
The tylenol will shut down the liver and the codine/codeine will shut down the lungs. He's asleep while this all happens. It's an easy way out. But out of what is the lingering question. Just because he's a suspect that they were ready to charge doesn't mean he did it. It also doesn't reaveal if others were involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #149
248. But the hepatic damage takes days to kill.
If the codeine does not stop his respiratory drive, he will wake up already starting to turn yellow, and will hang on a few days.

Not very good days, I might add.

I have watched this particular way to die, not a lot of laughs.

What makes it problematic agent for assassination compared to CO or KCl IV is the lag time to a kill.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #93
131. Codeine overdose... tylenol is just along for the 'ride'
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #93
148. That's what I was thinking.
Despite claims to the contrary, an overdose of codeine is not some blissful passing moment into the afterlife. It's a long painful process filled with seizures, massive skin irritations and a slow, painful death due to suffocation. That's not even taking into account the acetaminophen poisoning also going on at the same time that's slowly destroying your liver.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #93
155. AND for murderers, for that matter!
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 10:02 AM by BullGooseLoony
Tylenol is SO effective that there's no possibility at all of the victim surviving and then spilling the beans about who tried to kill them.


Right?


Genius.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #155
251. True . . . not good for a suicide - not good for a murder --- so what gives?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
94. Hmmm. Now he will never be able to reveal who may have put himup to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
138. I'm wondering about that too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. Again? File this in the tin foil Hard drive for sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. The steps in Fort Detrick's 2002 anthrax breach
Interesting thing googled...

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/special_secti...


Wednesday, April 10:

USAMRIID's medical division confirms the investigator's nasal swabs are positive for anthrax.

Thursday, April 11:

USAMRIID tests areas near the biocontainment suite in which the exposure took place. The tests show anthrax contamination in several areas, including the inside handle of the passbox.

Monday, April 15:

USAMRIID microbiologist Dr. Bruce Ivins takes unauthorized samples outside the laboratory containment areas.

Dr. Ivins tests more than 50 samples from the men's change room, the area outside the passbox and his office. He finds heavy growth of Ames-strain anthrax, a pathogenic, or disease-causing, form of the agent, on rubber molding surrounding the non-containment side of a passbox.

In his office area, he finds Ames anthrax spores. The men's change room tests positive for Ames spores and a few colonies of Vollum 1B, a pathogenic form of anthrax.


Tuesday, April 16:

Dr. Ivins tells the USAMRIID Bacteriology Division chief of the preliminary results of the anthrax contamination.

USAMRIID begins testing for contamination in and around the passbox and the cold side of the female change room area.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. An anthrax scientist takes Tylenol to kill himself. Hmm.
Seems an odd choice for someone with extensive knowledge of chemistry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. He could have picked something .......... nobody could trace


I SMELL BULLSHIT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
38. tylenol is a common choice for suicide for those in the know...
...and can be very effective (enough of it'll kill you if nobody finds you). the codeine is a nice touch, to ease any pain along the way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #38
75. Tylenol is a common method , as well as aspirin.
Tylenol takes a few days to shut down the liver, so the Dr has the unfortunate task of telling the patient he will die in the next day or so, barring a liver transplant. Aspirin overdoses can be overcome with dialysis so they are not always as fatal. That is if the person is brought in to the ER in a timely fashion. Both are routinely ordered in an ER drug panel for a suicide attempt or anybody acting a little crazy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #75
137. You are talking tylenol only... this was tylenol with codeine
Death is from the neurologic and respiratoy suppressive effects of codeine-an opiate. Both can be toxic, but codeine's effects are far more direct and far less delayed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #75
219. yes tylenol is a common choice for the unknowing
do you really think most emo kids who try tylenol poisioning realize it could take hours/days of agony before they either die or get a new liver?

this ain't an emo kid but supposedly a 62 yr old man with some knowledge of biochem?

i have to be skeptical but i don't know much about codeine, maybe the combination would be okay but tylenol poisoning itself is just a stupid choice for suicide

give me a rope or a gun any day of the week
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #38
132. It was tylenol with Codine. It's sold as Tylenol 1, 2, or 3. Depending upon how much codine is in it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #132
236. The army at the fort where the anthrax originated and the bogus reports came from
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #236
237. That same army post did the autopsy? Ivins helped a senator pull it off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #237
238. ABC knows who perpetrated the attacks but are covering for them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #238
240. check www.glenngreenwald@salon.com to see ABC knows now who it was.
but won't reveal their sources. Makes them complicit in the crime. Time to waterboard Peter Jennings. Electroshock till he reveals his sources that knowingly lied and set Jennings up to spread story it was Sadam just like the note attached to the anthrax said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. unsettling to say the least...... eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbc5g Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Yep he was suicided. Now that their "prime suspect" is dead..no more investigating!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. Totally agree

This smells like an operation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. Verrrrrry Interesting.....



There is no end to this 8 year nightmare.

I really, really, wanna say..

GIVE ME BACK MY COUNTRY!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
21. Question is: Who put him up to the attacks if he indeed was the sender?
guess we only get crumbs again... :sigh:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. So, will that be the end of it?
This guy has been walking around free for nearly seven years. Who were his associates? Who did he work with? Who were his superiors? Reading the thread on the exchange between Mukasey and Leahy (who, remember, was one of the targets of the anthrax killer), it seems pretty clear that they had someone definite in mind, but were reluctant to delve too deeply in an open committee hearing. Was that person Ivins? Will Leahy say anything about that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
102. For all we know he sent a mass mailer to everyone he wants to off
before he took the pills.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
239. case closed. nothing more to see here. move along now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
23. Link above and off LATimes home page not working?
:tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Works for me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. works in IE, not Firefox. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #31
86. I use the Firefox IE Tab for sites like that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #23
33. It was hit or miss for me, so I found another link, same story
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:33 AM by rainbow4321
Just so this doesn't get bumped elsewhere or locked for a bad link:

http://www.star-telegram.com/national_news/story/800551...


Maybe I should add it to the OP in case the first link gives people trouble.

Let me tell ya...it took forever to find a second link form a different source/site. It's buried deep.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. LATimes posted 4 hours ago and it's not picked up by AP, NYT, WP...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Yep.....the news was probably supposed to be a Friday night take out the trash
blip at the bottom of the TV scroller...or buried on section Z, page 50.

Guess someone jumped the gun and posted the article "too early".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #35
89. It was the lead story on my AM radio this AM
The one that runs right-wing talkers in the PM. I definitely notice things are getting reported more in the corporate media. It's something.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
26. Is it just me...
or does it seem like a lot of people with peripheral connections are "suiciding" lately? I am stating, for the record right now, if you hear that I committed suicide, DON'T BELIEVE IT!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I shot myself in the chest as that Air Force General did
and left no note........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
223. what about those 5 other Air Force members tied to the nuke case all dead now...
...http://www.legitgov.org/minot_afb_nukes_oddities.html

Dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, & dead.

Wow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
103. Even if they're legit suicides,
Notice how they're all coming in as McCain appears to be losing in the polls against Obama. I suspect these people are convinced we're going to get a Democratic president. So they know that whoever is protecting them, is no longer going to be there to protect them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
144. i'm tempted to make a button- if they tell you i committed suicide, its a lie.
really.

can some good numbers cruncher take that link downthread, and see how it compares to national averages. i mean, people do commit suicide, but really. it would also be interesting to compare news coverage of "normal" suicides and these suspicious ones. i have a feeling that they do not jump up and say it was a suicide before the body is cold for your average joe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #144
159. Right. Let's be objective: he died. How do we know it was suicide? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #144
167. how about a tatoo?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #167
173. really
although, in my case, i should leave a note "with my papers" listing the ways i would commit suicide, and the ways i wouldn't. cuz i can't swear i never, ever would.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
28. Amazing the news the MSM determines the public not need to know about...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
29. Does anyone have the list of people involved in bioweapons that have committed suicide?
I seem to remember it being pretty lengthy. Does anyone remember what I'm thinking of?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Not right now .... but it is very long... it will be brought up
I think the administration is cleaning house before they leave.

Be sure to nominate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #32
49. Found it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. includes an anthrax-related one
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:58 AM by JoeIsOneOfUs
#61: Dr. Larry Bustard, age 53. Died July 2, 2004 from unknown causes. He was a Sandia scientist in the Department of Energy who helped develop a foam spray to clean up congressional buildings and media sites during the anthrax scare in 2001. He worked at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque. As an expert in bioterrorism, his team came up with a new technology used against biological and chemical agents.

This one has several anthrax-related deaths:
http://www.christianmediadaily.com/microb.htm

March 2000: Larry C. Ford
--Expertise: Served as a consultant to both the CIA and the chemical and biological-weapons program of the South African Defense Forces, headed by Wouter Basson. His contributions to Basson's program included lectures on converting ordinary items into lethal biological weapons.
He provided samples of virulent, designer strains of cholera, anthrax, botulism, plague, and malaria, as well as a bacteria he claimed had been mutated to be "pigment specific" for the white minority government of South Africa.

--Circumstance of Death: Died of a shotgun blast at his home in Irvine, Orange County, California. His death was later ruled a suicide.


Nov. 21, 2001: Vladimir Pasechnik, 64
--Expertise: World-class microbiologist and high-profile Russian defector; defected to the United Kingdom in 1989, played a huge role in Russian biowarfare and helped to figure out how to modify cruise missiles to deliver the agents of mass biological destruction.
--Background: founded Regma Biotechnologies company in Britain, a laboratory at Porton Down, the country�s chem-bio warfare defense establishment. Regma currently has a contract with the U.S. Navy for "the diagnostic and therapeutic treatment of anthrax".
--Circumstance of Death: The pathologist who did the autopsy, and who also happened to be associated with Britain�s spy agency, concluded he died of a stroke. Details of the postmortem were not revealed at an inquest, in which the press was given no prior notice. Colleagues who had worked with Pasechnik said he was in good health.

July 18, 2003: Dr. David Kelly, 59
--Expertise: Biological warfare weapons specialist, senior post at the Ministry of Defense, an expert on DNA sequencing when he was head of microbiology at Porton Down and worked with two American scientists, Benito Que, 52, and Don Wiley, 57.
--Helped Vladimir Pasechnik found Regma Biotechnologies, which has a contract with the U.S. Navy for "the diagnostic and therapeutic treatment of anthrax"
--Circumstance of Death: He was found dead after seemingly slashing his wrist in a wooded area near his home at Southmoor, Oxfordshire.

July 2, 2004: Larry Bustard, 53
--Expertise: A Sandia scientist who helped develop a foam spray to clean up congressional buildings and media sites during the anthrax scare in 2001. Worked at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque. His team came up with a new technology used against biological and chemical agents.
--Circumstance of Death: unknown


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. Go down and click on the link for those prior to 2003
Most of the ones concerning bioweapons happened relatively soon after 9/11.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. added another link on edit above
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #53
69. ah, several more anthrax ones on there, some on that other link, some new
#28: Dr. Vladimer Pasechnik, age 64. Died: December 23, 2001. Found dead in Wiltshire, England, a village near his home. Two different dates have been reported: November 21 and December 23. Death ruled stroke. He had defected from Russia to UK. He had been the #1 scientist in the FSU's bioweapons program. It was thought he was involved with exhuming the bodies of the 10 London victims of the 1919 Type A flu epidemic. Pasechnik died six weeks after the planned exhumations were announced. On November 23, 2001, Pasechnik's death was reported in the New York Times as having occurred two days earlier. Pasechnik's death was made in the United States by Dr. Christopher Davis of Virginia, who stated that the cause of death was a stroke. Dr. Davis was the member of British intelligence who de-briefed Dr. Pasechnik at the time of his defection. Pasechnik was heavily involved in DNA sequencing research. He had just founded a company like three other microbiologists working to provide powerful alternatives to antibiotics. Dr. Vladimir Pasechnik was the boss of William C. Patrick III who holds 5 patents on the militarized anthrax used by the United States. Patrick is now a private biowarfare consultant to the military and CIA. Patrick developed the process by which anthrax spores could be concentrated at the level of one trillion spores per gram. No other country has been able to get concentrations above 500 billion per gram. The anthrax that was sent around the eastern United States last fall was concentrated at one trillion spores per gram.


#26: Dr. Set Van Nguyen, age 44. Died: December 14, 2001. Found dead in the airlock entrance to the walk-in refrigerator in the laboratory he worked at in Victoria State, Australia. The room was full of deadly gas which had leaked from a liquid nitrogen cooling system. Room was vented. Working on a vaccine to protect against biological weapons, or a weapon itself. In January, 2001, the magazine Nature published information that two scientists, Dr. Ron Jackson and Dr. Ian Ramshaw, using genetic manipulation and DNA sequencing, had created an incredibly virulent form of mousepox, a cousin of smallpox and Dr. Nguyen had worked for 15 years at the same Australian facility. Now for the intriguing part of this story. On Friday, November 2nd, the Washington Post reported: "Officials are now scrambling to determine how a quiet, 61-year-old Vietnamese immigrant, riding the subway each day to and from her job in a hospital stockroom, was exposed to the deadly anthrax spores that killed her this week. They worry because there is no obvious connection to the factors common to earlier anthrax exposures and deaths: no clear link to the mail or to the media.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. MAJOR LINK TO ALL SCIENTISTS THAT HAVE DIED SUSPICIOUSLY
THANKS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skoalyman Donating Member (751 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #49
64. he had a good heart, but it "gave out".
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 01:13 AM by skoalyman
#49: Dr. Michael Patrick Kiley, age 62. Died: January 24, 2004. Died of massive heart attack. Ebola, Mad Cow Expert, top of the line world class. It is interesting to note, he had a good heart, but it "gave out". :eyes:
45: Robert Leslie Burghoff, age 45. Died: November 20, 2003. Scientist. Killed by a hit and run driver that jumped the curb and :think: ploughed into him in the 1600 block of South Braeswood, Texas. The driver was described as a short Hispanic man in his 50s with a slightly rounded face. He was studying the virus plaguing cruise ships. :shrug: :tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #49
95. This is a list that would scare any scientist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
151. A question about the development of genetically targeted bioweapons
Here's a question. If a nation succeeded in developing a fatal, aerosol-transmissible, genetically targeted virus (for a target population outside their own dominant genome), how long would they (or could they afford to) wait before they used it?

Think about this chain of logic:

- If such a weapon is believed to be possible, every nation with the capability and a potential enemy will be working on it. Not to participate in the race would be deemed an unacceptable risk to the nation. A government will assume that any potential enemy will be working on it.

- If one nation succeeds in developing such a weapon, it is a proof that it's possible.

- If it is proved possible, that means other nations (including the primary enemy) will eventually succeed.

- Given that such programs are black, there is no way of knowing how close the enemy nation may be. They may have already succeeded.

- The risk of waiting and being attacked first by the enemy is too high - it would be a nation-ending event.

- Therefore, in the calculus of power politics, the only safe thing to do is to use it immediately upon discovery.

The conclusion is that if such a weapon is possible it will be used.

It may be that the microbiologist murders are an attempt to derail such programs, either for national advantage or for the good of the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #151
162. But...
By the same logic the United States should have launched an all-out nuclear attack on the USSR with every bomb we could muster before the Soviets exploded their first nuke in 1949.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #162
166. Very different circumstances
From Wikipipedia:

In the immediate aftermath of the Great Patriotic War, the Soviet Union feared the United States would use its nuclear superiority to devastate the Socialist Motherland, as from 1945-1948, the U.S. was the only state possessing nuclear weapons. The USSR countered by rapid development of their own nuclear weapons, with a test first occurring in 1949., and the U.S. was taken by surprise.

When the US got the bomb, they were still ostensible allies with Russia. By the time Russia developed their own bomb, the US still didn't have enough nuclear power to knock Russia out as a nation. After the Russians tested their own bomb, the balance was redressed.

The key is that the weapon in its initial form has to be powerful enough to destroy a nation. That wasn't the case with nuclear weapons, or they would probably have been used that way. It could be the case with a genetic bioweapon such as I postulated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
30. Not sure if I believe this or not.
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
34. comments from his brother
The eldest of his two brothers, Thomas Ivins, said that he was not surprised by the events that have unfolded.

"He buckled under the pressure from the federal government," Thomas Ivins said, adding that FBI agents came to Ohio last year to question him about his brother.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. "Last year" . . . ?
Rather it sounds like this "suspect" may have been being protected ---



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerOstrich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #34
91. yep, he sort of buckled from
the pressure v e r y s l o w l y.

All these years and they were just now restricting access and forcing retirement...hmmmmm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
36. Another chapter closes in The Life and Times of Dick Cheney
no fingerprints, no indictment, no justice
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Tylenol.......... used by one the most brilliant minds
to dispose of himself
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #39
133. Tylenol with codine actually. It's a commonly prescribed pain killer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Night_Nurse Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #133
154. Yes, but...
There are far more lethal substances that would have been faster, and guaranteed to work. Being a scientist, he would have known that.

Another thought - studies of suicide have shown that men usually choose quick, violent, and surefire ways to do the deed - usually w/a firearm, or motor vehicle, hanging, etc. Women are more likely to take pills or cut themselves. Reasoning is that once men decide to kill themselves, they are determined to do it, and want a way that will work - whereas women are more likely to be ambivalent about actually dying, and will choose a method that allows for possible rescue. This isn't true in all cases, of course, but in most.

People who really don't want to die, but want to make a suicidal gesture as a "cry for help" or attention, think that Tylenol is a "safe" way to do that - and they are making a fatal error. Unless that person gets to an ER right away for treatment to rid the body of acetaminophen, their liver is toast. It is a slow, horrifying, and painful way to die, I've seen it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #39
157. Yup, seems like a "brilliant" way to murder someone. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
41. This guy has been a "suspect" for 7 years . . .???!!!!
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:38 AM by defendandprotect
All while Hatfill has been the upfront "patsy" . . . ????

Musical chairs?

Meanwhile, Cheney's hatred for Leahy was quite openly on display ---

and while the Patriot Act would have been very important to them ---

would they have threatened all of Congress and displaced even their

own members in order to get it?


I think this was more about totally shutting down ALL of Congress right

after the huge election fraud followed by the false flag attack on the WTC.

IMO, they were trying to block communication between Congress and citizens -

and maybe more.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #41
44.  "Dr. Ivins told Army investigators he did the unauthorized testing "
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:44 AM by rainbow4321
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/special_secti...

In December 2001, a USAMRIID technician told Dr. Bruce Ivins, a microbiologist in USAMRIIDs Division of Bacteriology, that she was concerned she was exposed to anthrax spores when handling an anthrax-contaminated letter.

USAMRIID was in the midst of processing tens of thousands of items and environmental samples to rule out anthrax contamination, including the letters mailed to Sens. Daschle and Leahy.

Dr. Ivins, who still works in the bacteriology division but declined to comment for this story, tested the technicians desk area that December and found growth that had the earmarks of anthrax. He decontaminated her desk, computer, keypad and monitor, but didnt notify his superiors.

In the USAMRMC report, Dr. Ivins told Army investigators he did the unauthorized testing because he was concerned the powder in the anthrax letters and other samples might not be adequately contained.

Bunch of pdf links with timelines and writeups by investigators. They were leaving Ivins name whited out in them but it says how he did the testing "without his superiors" being notified.


http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/special_secti...



His name is whited out in this pdf..I have not looked at the others yet:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/special_secti...



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Motive............ what was his motive?
I see none, even if his was a pathological ego trip.

The story from the government stinks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #46
73. I believe there's motive.
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 01:46 AM by girl gone mad
It looks like he was connected up to his eyeballs with at least some of the dark forces in our MIC. I doubt we'll ever know the whole story. It will be chalked up to a lone lunatic playing God. We can't handle the truth, and all that.

And certainly, he had a pretty big financial motive of his own: http://www.freshpatents.com/Method-of-preventing-infect...

Scaring the people so that the government would buy enough Anthrax vaccine for all of us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #44
67. I don't think I'm near understanding this . . .
In December 2001, a USAMRIID technician told Dr. Bruce Ivins, a microbiologist in USAMRIIDs Division of Bacteriology, that she was concerned she was exposed to anthrax spores when handling an anthrax-contaminated letter.

USAMRIID was in the midst of processing tens of thousands of items and environmental samples to rule out anthrax contamination, including the letters mailed to Sens. Daschle and Leahy.

Dr. Ivins, who still works in the bacteriology division but declined to comment for this story, tested the technicians desk area that December and found growth that had the earmarks of anthrax.

He decontaminated her desk, computer, keypad and monitor, but didnt notify his superiors.



Could it be that they are saying that someone who worked in these labs that the Anthrax traces
back to were given the "letters" that were used in the mailings to test?

And that as they were examining them, they were leaking Anthrax?

I don't get it?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #41
179. Bushco hadn't installed Presidential Directive 51 yet.
Now they can shut down the entire government, save the "necessary essential functions", anytime they deem conditions to be an "emergency".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #41
183. First I'd heard of it too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
220. hatfill was VERY well paid to be the upfront "patsy"
don't cry any tears for that piece of right wing garbage, he was just paid $5 million for his trouble!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
42. Suicide...at the age of 62?
Hrrrrmmmmmm...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #42
104. What's his age got to do with it?
I agree it's fishy, but the very young and older people are more likely to commit suicide.

snip

Older Americans are disproportionately likely to die by suicide.

Of every 100,000 people ages 65 and older, 14.3 died by suicide in 2004. This figure is higher than the national average of 10.9 suicides per 100,000 people in the general population.
Non-Hispanic white men age 85 or older had an even higher rate, with 17.8 suicide deaths per 100,000.

snip

Not a big difference between 65 and 62. This is suspicious, but not because of his age.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #104
193. His age is just one of the factors that makes me suspicious. I never said it was the only one.
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:33 PM by Progs Rock
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
45. I am officially freaked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
47. It's now a big red banner at cnn.com
Because the AP has picked up the story:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/0...

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A top U.S. biodefense researcher apparently committed suicide just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him in the anthrax mailings that traumatized the nation in the weeks following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, according to a published report.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. MSNBC grabbed it too - but very abbreviated version
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:47 AM by JoeIsOneOfUs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #47
62. WashPost now with some more info
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 01:03 AM by JoeIsOneOfUs
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Anthrax Scientist Commits Suicide as FBI Closes In

Associated Press
Friday, August 1, 2008; 1:21 AM

WASHINGTON - A top U.S. biodefense researcher apparently committed suicide just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him in the anthrax mailings that traumatized the nation in the weeks following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, according to a published report.

The scientist, Bruce E. Ivins, 62, who worked for the past 18 years at the government's biodefense labs at Fort Detrick, Md., had been told about the impending prosecution, the Los Angeles Times reported for Friday editions. The laboratory has been at the center of the FBI's investigation of the anthrax attacks, which killed five people.

Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick (Md.) Memorial Hospital. The Times, quoting an unidentified colleague, said the scientist had taken a massive dose of a prescription Tylenol mixed with codeine.

Tom Ivins, a brother of the scientist, told The Associated Press that another of his brothers, Charles, told him Bruce had committed suicide.

A woman who answered the phone at Charles Ivins' home in Etowah, N.C., refused to wake him and declined to comment on his death. "This is a grieving time," she said.

A woman who answered the phone at Bruce Ivins' home in Frederick declined to comment.

Justice Department spokesman Peter Carr and FBI Assistant Director John Miller declined to comment on the report.

Henry S. Heine, a scientist who had worked with Ivins on inhalation anthrax research at Fort Detrick, said he and others on their team have testified before a federal grand jury in Washington that has been investigating the anthrax mailings for more than a year.

Heine declined to comment on Ivins' death.

Norman Covert, a retired Fort Detrick spokesman who served with Ivins on an animal-care and protocol committee, said Ivins was "a very intent guy" at their meetings.

Ivins was the co-author of numerous anthrax studies, including one on a treatment for inhalation anthrax published in the July 7 issue of the journal Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. edit - found the journal article
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 01:08 AM by JoeIsOneOfUs
http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/AAC.00360-08v1?...

Efficacy of Oritavancin in a Murine Model of Bacillus anthracis Spore Inhalation Anthrax
H. S. Heine*, J. Bassett, L. Miller, A. Bassett, B. E. Ivins, D. Lehoux, F. F. Arhin, T. R. Parr JR., and G. Moeck

United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), Fort Detrick, MD; Targanta Therapeutics, St-Laurent, Canada

* To whom correspondence should be addressed. Email: henry.heine@amedd.army.mil .


Abstract

The inhaled form of Bacillus anthracis infection may be fatal to humans. The current standard of care for inhalational anthrax postexposure prophylaxis is ciprofloxacin therapy twice daily for 60 days. The potent in vitro activity of oritavancin, a semisynthetic lipoglycopeptide, against B. anthracis (minimum inhibitory concentration against Ames strain, 0.015 g/ml) prompted us to test its efficacy in a mouse aerosol-anthrax model. In postexposure prophylaxis dose-ranging studies, a single intravenous (i.v.) dose of oritavancin of 5, 15 or 50 mg/kg 24 h after challenge with 50 to 75 times the median lethal dose of Ames strain spores provided 40, 70, and 100% proportional survival, respectively, at 30 days postchallenge. Untreated animals died within 4 days of challenge whereas 90% of control animals receiving ciprofloxacin at 30 mg/kg intraperitoneally twice daily for 14 days starting 24 h after challenge survived. Oritavancin demonstrated significant activity postsymptom development: a single i.v. dose of 50 mg/kg administered 42 h after challenge provided 56% proportional survival at 30 days. In a preexposure prophylaxis study, a single i.v. dose of 50 mg/kg oritavancin administered 1, 7, 14, or 28 days before lethal challenge protected 90, 100, 100, and 20% of mice at 30 days; mice treated with ciprofloxacin 24 h or 24 and 12 h before challenge all died within 5 days. Efficacy in pre- and postexposure models of inhalation anthrax together with a demonstrated low propensity to engender resistance promote further study of oritavancin pharmacokinetics and efficacy in non-human primate models.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
51. Cheney wants to use fake Iranian troops (Navy seals) to kill to go to war with Iran
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #51
71. thank you . . . love Hersh--!! Right . . "highschool" . ..
And, amazingly they're watching still to see the level of stuff the American public will believe!!!

I think they're desperate to pull this off before election --- Iran, that is.

Soo -- how can we be sure that this guy who "suicided" wasn't simply a new patsy

to replace the old patsy --

Sure, someone actually did this dirty for Cheney but that person/s may already be dead???


Meanwhile, given this PLUS MINOT SUICIDES last few days --- looks like they're cleaning up.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
57. 3 suicides thise week
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #57
72. Three that we know about, so far . . . Looks like they're cleaning up --
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
59. Apparent suicide. Unreal, just like David Kelly?
Lots of SUICIDES of professional people during this administration, huh. In our country and abroad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
65. FBI Images of original letters...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Winston. Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #65
78. "Allah is Great"
Funny, Bruce E. Ivins doesn't sound like a Muslim name :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
68. Sorry. I aint buying .
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 01:15 AM by jaysunb
Tin foil hat in full receptor mode...... :evilfrown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #68
224. Me neither...what do they think we were born yesterday?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
74. LA Times - is this an updated version of story?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
77. recommend
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
79. Oh, what a tragic "suicide". Crying here.
What a hunka crap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
81. Damn! I lived across the street from Ft. Dietrick . . .
This guy was probably my neighbor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
82. Does anyone else think all that's missing from this administration is the end piano theme to "Layla"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrVG92142QM&feature=rela...

Just not as much charisma . . . or eventual come-uppance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #82
165. One of the best closings in a movie ever....
Yes, this whole seven years has been right out of a "Good Fellows" nightmare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
83. Government, burned by Hatfill, searches for person who A) can in...
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 04:36 AM by Poll_Blind
...some way be charged with the Anthrax killings, nomatter how tenuous the connection and B) who suffers from depression, has financial woes, dying of cancer or any other criteria which would make them likely to kill themselves.

  And then make a point of questioning their relatives and everyone else who knows them. Rinse and repeat for a year.

  And then, instead of swooping in with an Anti-Terrorist team to arrest him and get him into custody, contact them and let them know that the government is going to begin prosecuting them as the Anthrax Killer very shortly.

  I'd love to see what their evidence was against him but I would not be surprised if it was flimsy and classified- so nobody could question why they drop the investigation when they do.

  Philip Zack, Letters. He had the means, the motive, the opportunity, hated Arabs was photographed illegally accessing the Anthrax lab AFTER his employment ended, and the MAIN target of his harassment was prematurely (by a few days) fingered as the Anthrax Terrorist by someone before anyone, even the FBI knew of the letters.

PB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #83
145. yeah, hard to believe the anthrax killer wouldn't be watched 24-7. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bos1 Donating Member (997 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
87. Anthrax terrorism was an INSIDE JOB
Get your head around that one. It blows so many premises out of the water.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doug.Goodall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
88. Bruce Ivins took (or was he sent) to the grave information about the Bush purges
The American people just don't need to know who was eliminated by the Bush Administration in order to prosecute the war on terror.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
90. Hey, they just mentioned this story on my local morning news
WCVB in Boston. Maybe it will get a little attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
92. 3 new suicides in 3 days
CASES CLOSED -- just in the nick of time for the uppity President Obama who doesn't need to know these things.

Scientist commits suicide before arrest for anthrax mailings

(2) aide to Senator Jim Webb found dead <"Suicide"> - July 29
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2008/07...

(3) U.S. Air Force General Dead From Gunshot Wound <"Suicide"> - July 30
Michael Buzz Mosely, resigned in the wake of the Minot Nukes incident.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jwfHVHeEJlguxBiYCFf2...

Air Force to punish 70 for nuke flight - July 30
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-10-19-nucl...

Bush orders overhaul of US intelligence just in the nick of time to re-stack the deck for Obama
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080731/pl_afp/usintellige...

Blackwater now a "private CIA"
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Scahill_updates_Blackwate...

Anyone remember Cliff Baxter? Enron whistleblower committed "suicide"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Clifford_Baxter

Anyone remember David Kelly? UK weapons expert whistleblower committed "suicide"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_%28weapons_exp...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #92
96. "Suicided", a word that was coined for BushCO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerOstrich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
97. Report: Anthrax attacks suspect takes own life
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 05:56 AM by FormerOstrich
Source: MSNBC

WASHINGTON - A top U.S. biodefense researcher apparently committed suicide just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him in the anthrax mailings that traumatized the nation in 2001, according to a published report.

Federal officials confirmed to NBC News early Friday that Bruce E. Ivins, 62, was a suspect in the anthrax mailings and that the Justice Department was preparing to file charges against him.

Ivins, who worked for the past 18 years at the government's biodefense labs at Fort Detrick, Maryland, had been told about the impending prosecution, the Los Angeles Times reported. The laboratory has been at the center of the FBI's investigation of the anthrax mailings, which killed five people in the weeks following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25961053



I can't believe this has not been posted yet...but I looked and couldn't find it....if I erred, please delete.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I did look before post, honest...and now I see this is a dup..please delete
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. How convenient
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #98
100. Yes.
I'll bet Dick Cheney is saying the same thing this morning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #97
99. So they finally found someone to pin it on.
Who can't sue the shit out of them like the last guy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #99
101. Wonder how tight this fellow was with Judith Miller and Jerome Hauer?
Google isn't turning anything easy up, but we'll see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
105. The saddest part is that the Bush Admin has done so much dirt I don't think this was suicide.
I think he was murdered to cover up his complicity in a conspiracy to terrorize the public and the media - remember "people need to be careful what they say," and also that the targets were "liberal media" figures.

It is JUST too coincidental that NOW, after all this time, so close to the end of the Bush admin, this guy was "just about to be arrested" and just killed himself. Funny, now he won't be around for a new administration to question, and the trial phase won't be conducted under a new US Attorney, likely appointed by a Democrat, and at LEAST not as reliable as the hand pick cronies of the Bush administration.

God I hate Bush/Cheney/Rove for making me feel this way about my government.

DWilliamsAMH
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #105
160. So now Leahy has his answer . . . "the guy who did it killed himself" . . . !!!
More convenient coincidence . . .

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
106. Greek Tragedy Alert: Sounds like even his brother thought he was guilty.
The eldest of his two brothers, Thomas Ivins, said he was not surprised by the events that have unfolded.

"He buckled under the pressure from the federal government," Thomas Ivins said, adding that FBI agents came to Ohio last year to question him about his brother.

"I was questioned by the feds, and I sung like a canary" about Bruce Ivins' personality and tendencies, Thomas Ivins said.

"He had in his mind that he was omnipotent."



Must have been some very interesting Ivins family reunions around the time all of this was going down.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #106
109. Side Note: Is anyone keeping the "Bush Body Count"
Remember the right wingnut "Clinton Body Count" that Jerry Fatwell ("The Clinton Chronicles") was flogging to raise money?

Seems to me a "Bush Body Count" of suspicious deaths on Bush's watch is way more justified.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #109
191. bush body count
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:22 PM by noiretblu
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
108. This might have to do w/ Speaker Pelosi's failure to act on bush / Cheney's
crimes.

Add this the list w/ of the D.C. madmam's hanging herself and Ray Lemme's
(Florida 2000) getting up one morning and driving to GA and checking in
a hotel to kill himself. Also Mavin Bush's maid getting run over by driverless
car after 9/11 fits on this list of "cleaning up any problems" suicides.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
110. Well, that was convenient.
After the utter failure to find the anthrax mailer, they prepare an indictment right before the election.
Then the poor guy 'kills himself' before it can go to trial.
They will basically posture and chest thump about catching the culprit without having to actually successfully prosecute the guy.
This is a scan at the cost of this mans life. Despicable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
111. Another "suicide"? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
113. How con-VEE-nient!
The guy now being named as the top suspect supposedly commits suicide just as the bushcheney Misadministration is drawing to a close.

Gotta go put a few more layers of foil on my hat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
114. How convenient for Bushco. Another death. No trial where truths
might be uttered. Just another supposedly guilty man who can no longer attempt to prove his innocence. So case closed!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
masmdu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
115.  Anthrax scientist commits suicide as FBI closes in
Source: Yahoo News/ AP news"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080801/ap_on_re_us/anthrax...

A top U.S. biodefense researcher apparently committed suicide just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him in the anthrax mailings that traumatized the nation in the weeks following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, according to a published report.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080801/ap_on_re_us/anthrax...



I wonder who he was working for?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
116. how very...convenient
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 07:34 AM by ixion
I'll bet he had one of Dick's henchmen there to assist in his transition.
:tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #116
126. We wouldn't want to have to take this to trial, would we?
All that testimony in open court, and cross-examinations, and stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
117. Maybe himself just like the unibomber.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
118. I wonder who ordered him suicided? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
119. I wish people would quit taking anti-depressants
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 07:40 AM by Tesla
Those side effects are deadly!!
Makes you think.....

So many suicides lately!!


FDA Suicide Warning
In May 2007, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recommended a new warning label for all antidepressant medications. The current black box label includes a warning about the increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children and adolescents. The FDA wants to expand this warning to include young adults from ages 18 to 24. Children and young adults should also be monitored for the emergence of agitation, irritability, and unusual changes in behavior, as these symptoms can indicate that the depression is getting worse. The risk of suicide is particularly great during the first one to two months of treatment.

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/medications_depression....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #119
122. Yes, because depressed people are not at risk for suicide unless they take pills.
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #119
128. Wow - Where Did You Get The Pirates Pic?.....
please send a link to that as I would like to send it around to some of my uninformed Repug friends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
120. Are we going to actually see any evidence?
:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
121. Anybody know what happened with the Tuberculosis guy?
2007 tuberculosis scare
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_tuberculosis_scare



TB Patient Is Related to C.D.C. Expert on Disease
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/31/health/31cnd-tb.html

Date: 23/07/08
IMF loans 'strongly linked' to tuberculosis
The rapid spread of tuberculosis in eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union has been fuelled by the economic policies of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), a new study has found.
http://www.cambridgenetwork.co.uk/news/article/default....

Anybody listening to Andrew Speaker (TB Guy) on MSNBC?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



Feds probe missing CDC gear. Theft suspected in some cases
Topic started by IanDB1 on Jul-12-07 05:40 PM (2 replies)
Last modified by ClintonTyree on Jul-12-07 08:00 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
123. "who writes this stuff" - they finally got him just as the headlines about
the settlement with the first person of interest go away.

dead men tell no tells.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #123
134. Wanna bet that bin Laden turns up dead before the election?
:tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #134
146. seems more and more likely, doesn't it?
It's suspicious enough that they were closing in on this guy so close to the election (see, we're fighting terror!) His suicide makes it, well, a bit cleaner story!

There's enough unrest happening in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan lately that bin Laden's death could be an "accident" too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #146
147. and he will kill himself by huge explosion just as "troops" are closing in ....
.... on him. Mission Accomplished. Hell, bush is ready to declare victory
in Iraq and is going to pull out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #134
203. I'm afraid to take that bet. :-))
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
124. Another sign that the Rethugs think the Dems will win big this Fall...n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
125. What a crock of shit
The * administration is just closing up the holes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #125
140. Absolutely. A five-year-old can see that. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
127. Just Tying Up The Loose Ends Folks......
in another 6 months we won't be running the country anymore - so we have to make sure that we tidy things up so that we're not implicated in anything once we're gone. So that General in Alaska that had knowledge of the nukes movement - we needed to take care of him too. And those other airmen that were involved - them too!!

We're also trying one last effort to maybe pull this Presidential race out of the hat too. So we're talking to Iran now. We're talking timetable in Iraq. Gas prices are coming down a bit. Thank you Barack for giving us some ideas that we can implement and take the credit for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #115
136. FBI was "closing in"
Just in time for the campaign. The Rove administration is beyond disgusting. Hopefully Leahy and Daschle will have some stinging words for them
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
129. The investigation hit a dead end. Case Closed.
Now we'll never find out it was authorized by Cheney and Rumsfeld.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
135. cleaning up before they leave? ---->
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kma3346 Donating Member (423 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #135
152. Yes, they're in overdrive now
November is quickly approaching...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rainbowreflect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
142. Even my husband, who has no tin-foil hat, agreed with my reaction
of doubt when I heard this story this morning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
143. Add it to a million other 'coincidences' that just happen so the truth never sees the light of day


:tinfoilhat:

This mafia administration is so corrupt and criminal, one can't put anything past them.

The things will know as fact are enough for a conviction of these criminals, can you imagine all the things we don't know....

This is so sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #143
241. Well - at least they LEARNED from their previous "mistakes" during Nixon's term...
It was amazing to me then that nobody ever thought of DESTROYING ANY EVIDENCE - I couldn't believe nixon's henchmen didn't destroy all that stuff!!!

These CRIMINALS knew EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANTED AND HOW TO DO IT ALL FROM THE GET GO...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
150. Case closed.
Move along. Nothing to see here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #150
180. Yep. Just another "lone nut".
It's just the same old song.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
153. John Robert's phone interview with the brother this morning was hysterical.
The lengths CNN will go to peddle this crap as instructed, is both laughable and pathetic.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/01/anthrax.death/index... (See video: "Brother knew Ivins a suspect")
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
156. BBC news item on it -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7536890.stm

end of it

"A doctor who worked with Mr Ivins at Fort Detrick, Russell Byrne, told Associated Press news agency the FBI had "hounded" Mr Ivins.

Dr Byrne said Mr Ivins had had to seek treatment for depression.

In 2003, Mr Ivins was awarded the highest honour for defence department civilian staff for his anthrax vaccine work.

Associated Press quoted officials as saying that authorities were investigating whether Mr Ivins had released the anthrax to test his vaccine."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
158. Was Ivins familiar with any reporters?
I'd be curious on the well-being of any reporters who have interviewed Ivins in the past.

If I thought I was about to become the fall guy for the administration, I'd have a dead-mans switch, and I'd be sure that the administration knew it.

If any of those reporters have met an unexpected end in recent days, it'd be good to stock up on tinfoil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #158
168. maybe his lawyer better be careful too - quoted in NY Times:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
161. Wouldn't be surprised if the Bushies just wanted a fall guy so they could close the case.
It MIGHT be suicide, or ...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #161
170. Exactly. Now this old news can be called "old news." Time to move on.
Oh look! There's a shiny thing over there!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
171. Very convenient
Ken Lay - very convenient.
Dr. David Kelly - very convenient.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
172. So the threat of the death penalty made this guy kill himself??
me smell bullshit of epic proportions...

Officials eyed death penalty for anthrax suspect
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25961053 /

WASHINGTON - A top U.S. biodefense researcher apparently committed suicide this week as prosecutors prepared to seek indictment and the death penalty against him for the deadly 2001 anthrax attacks, U.S. officials said Friday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
174. I suspect this really was a suicide, and NOT a BushCheney cover-up...
I think they actually were going to prosecute him... just in time for the election. Then they could trumpet far and wide:

"Lookit here, America! We caught the anthrax killer! We're keepin' America safe from terror terror terror!"

I don't think they wanted this guy dead at all, not yet. They wanted a perp to parade in front of the cameras, create a big spectacle, and turn the focus of the election back to national security.

'Cause they sure ain't gonna win it if the economy is the top election issue. They want, they need American voters to be re-living 9/11 by the time our votes are cast in November. It's all they've got.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
175. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
176. Making me think of the song "Harrowdown Hill"
by Thom Yorke about Dr. David Kelly.



"Harrowdown Hill"

Don't walk the plank like I did
You will be dispensed with
When you've become inconvenient
In the harrowdown hill
Where you went to school
That's where I am
That's where I'm lying down

Did I fall or was I pushed?
Did I fall or was I pushed?
And where's the blood?
And where's the blood?

I'm coming home
I'm coming home
To make it all right
So dry your eyes

We think the same things at the same time
We just cant do anything about it

So don't ask me
Ask the ministry
Don't ask me
Ask the ministry

We think the same things at the same time
There are so many of us
So you can't count

We think the same things at the same time
There are too many of us
So you can't count

Can you see me when I'm running?
Can you see me when I'm running?
Away from them

I can't take their pressure
No one cares if you live or die
They just want me gone
They want me gone

I'm coming home
I'm coming home
To make it all right
So dry your eyes

We think the same things at the same time
We just cant do anything about it

We think the same things at the same time
There are too many of us
So you can't count

It was a slippery slippery slippery slope
It was a slippery slippery slippery slope
I feel me slipping in and out of consciousness
I feel me slipping in and out of consciousness
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
181. I'm not buying it.
The whole anthrax thing stinks to high heaven.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
182. UPDATE:"Three sourcess...said the case soon will be CLOSED because a threat no longer exists. "
In this CNN story Same day wrap-up! Man, if only I could get a dry-cleaning service with that kind of turn-around.

I guess some spots come out quicker than others. You just have to know how hard to rub, don't you?

Bonus points for listening to his brother who apparently has held a grudge against Bruce (and another brother) his entire life. Link to CNN video on CNN, someplace. NOT hard to find.

PB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #182
187. lol dry cleaning
:wow:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maine-i-acs Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
185. Cause of death is ironclad 3 days after the death ... with no autopsy?
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 11:38 AM by Maine-i-acs
Will he be buried without an autopsy?

I smell something ...

What if Ivins, a sort-of whistleblower, was onto something?

Then he is suicided while the real perps walk free ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #185
215. Or simpler than that
they finally found a plausible suspect they could intimidate to death, better than the spotlights of an embarrassing confession and delving into USAMRID. They tried Hatfill, no luck. The hounded some others into violent episodes. No confession, no suicide. They tried intimidation of one suspect at a time very very consistently. Also consistent was the lack of investigation and new methods. The new geniuses who came in at the very least decided to drop hatfill and try some else, conveniently more vulnerable.

Now, I am a postal worker. It would not pain me to see someone pay the price for the crime, but there is little concern to even present a case for actually proving anything. "Ifs" and quiet assurances of guilt, no confession, just crisp spun SHORT narratives from minimal "news" sources certainly don't satisfy the needs of justice or any visceral desire anyone might have for punishment. Bush is already taking credit for "being on top of this", likely since they expected to really break this guy dead without the inconvenience of trial and expanding questions. With his record of "mental" difficulties and depression the new suspect a real concern of justice would have been keeping him more heavily supervised and alive. The main concern seemed to be to break someone, anyone, down to death.

Secrecy is not justice or something for Bush to openly brag about as "justice accomplished". the all too recent narratives about their being more than one person involved, suggesting perhaps an ignorant fishing expedition beyond Hatfill is all forgotten. The dead, speechless guy did it.

That is not closure, that is not solving the case. Justice is dead, the MSM permanently poisoned. On top of the just suspicions about the convenient FBI conclusions, Bush and Cheney are going out of their way to lie their asses off.

Next: Bin Laden commits suicide and his followers scatter his ashes across Afghanistan. Believe it or else. All planned timely convenient upticks like the "surge" providing a show of withdrawal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #185
242. not buried - cremated...
just a wild hunch here...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
189. convenient nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
190. Convenient suicide= guilty= case closed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackanapes Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
192. Anthrax!
Alt-rag tries sneaking Anthrax across U.S. border in a canoe! But instead of Anthrax, they end up smuggling al Qaeda!

http://www.buffalobeast.com/129/Lake_Feary.html

A true and funny story of Post 9/11 waste and fear. I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
194. This may totally unrelated--but the comments on all the information that DIDN'T come out at trial
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 12:45 PM by mistertrickster
thanks to a convenient death remind me of the case of Enron's Ken Lay.

True, people die all the time, but why do so many die when they have damaging information to spill about the Bush administration that would come out in a court trial?

It's hard to imagine that our government, even Bush, could be that corrupt . . . or that effective at covering up criminality.

But as V said in V for Vendetta, "one either believes in coincidences or causality, and I do not believe in coincidences."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #194
225. I thought of Ken Lay too - amazing how suicides are keeping so many secrets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
196. Another dead scientist. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
197. Never discussed - why the target list
reads like Dick Cheney's enemies list.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
198. Wiki on Bruce Ivins
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #198
208. Thanks for posting that link.
I haven't really been following Ivins, until today.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
201. Interesting article: "How Bruce Ivins Toppled Saddam"- claimed it was same anthrax as Saddam used...
Funny how everything links to going to war against Iraq. Another "reason" to get rid of Saddam.

http://reason.com/blog/show/127871.html

During the last week of October, 2001, ABC News, led by Brian Ross, continuously trumpeted the claim as their top news story that government tests conducted on the anthrax -- tests conducted at Ft. Detrick -- revealed that the anthrax sent to Daschele contained the chemical additive known as bentonite. ABC News, including Peter Jennings, repeatedly claimed that the presence of bentonite in the anthrax was compelling evidence that Iraq was responsible for the attacks, since -- as ABC variously claimed -- bentonite "is a trademark of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's biological weapons program" and "only one country, Iraq, has used bentonite to produce biological weapons."

ABC News' claim -- which they said came at first from "three well-placed but separate sources," followed by "four well-placed and separate sources" -- was completely false from the beginning. There never was any bentonite detected in the anthrax (a fact ABC News acknowledged for the first time in 2007 only as a result of my badgering them about this issue). It's critical to note that it isn't the case that preliminary tests really did detect bentonite and then subsequent tests found there was none. No tests ever found or even suggested the presence bentonite. The claim was just concocted from the start. It just never happened.

That means that ABC News' "four well-placed and separate sources" fed them information that was completely false -- false information that created a very significant link in the public mind between the anthrax attacks and Saddam Hussein.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
206. Was Ivins part of Phillip Zack's self-named KKK? i.e. Kamel Klub Kids, whatever
the one that operated out of Fort Detrick and tried to frame the Egyptian doctor? the ones who mailed the letter trying to frame the doctor before ppl even knew they had anthrax?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Zack

maybe Ivins took the fall.

Ivins went into the hospital for depression. If I were being set up to take the blame, I guess I'd be pretty depressed too.

the stories are odd. The old USA Today article talks about him cleaning up a woman's desk, not his own, because SHE was afraid she has contaminated areas. But the LA Times article seems to mention ANOTHER incident?

apparently there are tons of them, (breaches in which anthrax contaminates work areas... but not the aerosolized version) based upon the USA Today article from a few years ago.

Maybe he did commit suicide - because he was being framed. Or maybe they were insisting he did it, like the insisted that girl didn't see the woman in the polka dot dress when RFK was shot. The agent who questioned her was definitely trying to fuck with her and didn't stop until she changed her story. Listen to it online, those of you who don't know what I'm talking about. It's terrible, really, to hear that agent tell the girl that she didn't see anything and when she says she did, he says she'll bring shame to the Kennedys and herself b/c of her future children. Hours and hours of this. Wear a body down.

Maybe it's just a coincidence but I doubt it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #206
211. Yeah, Marion Rippey (sp?) was one of the others with Zack but it's unknown...
...who the 3-4 other participants were.

:shrug:

PB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
209. This belongs in the dungeon. If its being played up by MSM its a fraud
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #209
216. kind of clueless eh? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
210. either the justice department is completely incompetent or it's a cover-up
I'm not sure which of the two scenarios is "better"...




Something is rotten in the district of Columbia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #210
229. We don't have a Justice Dept. There's a Just Us Dept. that has replaced it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
214. How a company cashed in on anthrax
How a company cashed in on anthrax
The vaccine maker's frequent cries for help brought it millions of additional tax dollars - even when it could not deliver a product that troops could use.

BY BOB EVANS
December 7, 2005

In a two-year span, the nation's only licensed anthrax vaccine maker went from pleading poverty to announcing $100 million in acquisitions, including other pharmaceutical companies and a new manufacturing plant near Washington, D.C.

It's a pattern that's worked well for BioPort Corp.: Tell the Pentagon or Congress that it doesn't have the money to keep going, negotiate a new deal, then count the extra cash rolling in.

During the past seven years, it's transformed an initial investment of less than $4.5 million into an international biotech firm, with contracts worth more than $450 million. During that time, the company has capitalized on its monopoly over the vaccine and on fears that opposing armies and terrorists will unleash tiny anthrax spores somewhere.

BioPort is an example of how a sole-source government contract can become a gold mine - especially if you spend wisely on the right lobbyists and public relations professionals.

....

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-anth-day4-bioportdec0...

----------

Well-connected drug company obtained anthrax vaccine contracts despite side effects

Julie Weisberg
Published: Tuesday May 29, 2007

Two former high-ranking health officials with close ties to the Bush administration helped a Michigan-based pharmaceutical company secure sole-source, multi-million dollar federal contracts for the purchase of its controversial anthrax vaccine, a RAW STORY investigation has found.

Last month, Emergent BioSolutions announced that the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) intended to purchase more than 18 million doses of its Biothrax vaccine for the Strategic National Stockpile. The strategic stockpile is set aside for civilian use during a large-scale emergency, such as a bioterrorism attack or natural disaster. Once finalized, the contract will be the largest of its kind for Emergents anthrax vaccine.

BioThrax is the only FDA-licensed vaccine for anthrax in the United States. The Pentagon has used it for the militarys mandatory anthrax vaccination program for the last ten years, though not without problems. Although the military continues to publicly claim the vaccine is safe and effective, thousands of soldiers have suffered adverse reactions, ranging from mild to severe.

In March, RAW STORY revealed that Walter Reed is investigating links between the vaccine and life-threatening autoimmune diseases. Hundreds of U.S. service members have refused the shots, fearing the side-effects experienced by some 80 percent of the soldiers who receive them, according to a 2002 General Accountability Office report.

....

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Wellconnected_drug_compan...

------------

Emergent Biosolutions/Bioport Board of Directors; How to sell to the US Government

Joe M. Allbaugh. Mr. Allbaugh was Chief of Staff to President George W. Bush from 1995 through 1999 when he was Governor of Texas. Mr. Allbaugh was later Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Louis Sullivan, MD. Dr. Sullivan served as Secretary of Health and Human Services in the cabinet of President George H.W. Bush from March 1989 to January 1993.

Jerome Hauer. Mr. Hauer served as acting assistant secretary for public health emergency preparedness of HHS from June 2002 to November 2003 and as director of the office ... of public health preparedness of HHS from May 2002 to June 2002. He also is said to have been responsible for putting the NYC Emergency Center in the World Trade Center prior to 9/11/2001.

Sue Bailey, D.O. Dr. Bailey served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs under President Clinton, where she headed the $17 billion military medical system, coordinating the care for 8 million beneficiaries. After leaving the Defense Department, she became the head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

...


Zsolt Harsanyi, PhD. Zsolt P. Harsnyi Ph.D. has been President of Porton International, a pharmaceutical company, since 1984. He has benefited from spinoff of technology developed at Porton Down, the UK's equivalent of Fort Detrick, as did Emergent's major stockholder, Fuad El-Hibri.

Ronald Richards. Mr. Richard served as Chief Operating Officer and managing partner of In-Q-Tel, the CIA's Venture Capital Fund, for 15 months.

Admiral William Crowe, former Chairman of the Board., was also a former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Ambassador to the United Kingdom. He has sold the Bioport shares he was given to act in this capacity, and is no longer affiliated with Emergent Biosolutions/Bioport. Reporter Bob Evans discussed how Bioport came to "earn" windfall profits.

....

http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com/2007/06/emergent-bio...

-----

FBI Overlooks Foreign Sources of Anthrax


WALL STREET JOURNAL
December 24, 2001
Commentary

by Edward Jay Epstein

...

The security of the British anthrax bacteria is complicated by its privatization. In 1993, at the time it was supplying the virulent Ames strain sample, CAMR was partly privatized by the British government through a marketing agreement with Porton Products Ltd. in which Porton sold all its anthrax vaccine. Porton Products was owned by Speywood Holdings Ltd., which, in turn, was owned by I&F Holdings NV, a Netherlands Antilles corporate shell owned by Fuad El-Hibri, a Lebanese Arab with joint German-U.S. citizenship; his father, Ibrihim El-Hibri; and possibly other undisclosed investors.

Prior to his taking over this biotech company, Fuad El-Hibri had worked in the mergers-and-acquisitions department of Citibank in Jedda, Saudi Arabia, where he specialized in arranging investments for large Saudi investors. Saudi Arabia then was interested in obtaining an anthrax vaccine to counter Saddam Hussein's biological warfare capabilities. But the U.S. would not provide it.

So when Mr. El-Hibri took over the British biotech lab, he reorganized its bio-terrorism defense business, and arranged deliveries of biotech defense products to Saudi Arabia. Mr. El-Hibri was unavailable for comment, but the ownership is a matter of record and he has not made a secret of his involvement in bio-warfare research. Indeed, he testified before Congress in 1999: "I participated in the marketing and distribution of substantial quantities of two bio-defense vaccines -- botulinum Type A and anthrax."

Even more intriguing, Mr. El-Hibri's interest in anthrax vaccines did not stop with his deal with CAMR. In 1998, he arranged a leveraged buyout of the Michigan Biological Products Institute. MBPI, which originally had been owned by the state of Michigan, held the exclusive contract for providing the U.S. government with anthrax vaccine. While its vaccine worked well against the Vollum strain of anthrax (used by Russia), it was more problematic against the Ames strain. So it had conducted tests with the virulent Ames strain on guinea pigs, mice and monkeys with mixed results. BioPort's spokeperson confirmed that it had access to the virulent Ames strain for testing on animals. To take over MBPI, Mr. El-Hibri became an American citizen, and gave retired Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a large block of stock in Intervac, one of the corporations involved in the maneuver. The controlling shareholder was the same I&F Holdings used to take control of the British biotech lab, CAMR. He then renamed the company BioPort. BioPort, which controlled America's anthrax vaccine, was apparently of some interests to scientists in Afghanistan since an environmental assessment report of its planned laboratory renovations was turned up in the house of a Pakistani scientist in Kabul.

....

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/archived/anthrax.htm

----

Company Led by Top Admiral Buys Michigan Vaccine Lab

By JUDITH MILLER
Published: July 8, 1998

The State of Michigan yesterday approved the sale of the nation's only licensed manufacturer of anthrax and rabies vaccine to a company led by Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the United States Ambassador to Britain until last year.

The sale of the Michigan Biologic Products Institute, the last state-owned vaccine laboratory in the United States, gives Admiral Crowe's newly formed company, the BioPort Corporation, an inside track on at least $60 million in Pentagon contracts for anthrax vaccine to protect the nation's 2.4 million members of the armed forces and reservists against an anthrax attack.

The rickety plant, which has been run by the Michigan Department of Community Health, has lost millions of dollars annually for years. So in 1996 Michigan decided to sell it to the highest bidder. No one was seriously interested, even after the Pentagon announced it would pay for a $1.8 million renovation.

...

BioPort, whose headquarters are in Lansing, Mich., is made up of several partners besides Admiral Crowe. One is Fuad El-Hibri, a German citizen of Lebanese descent who has marketed drugs and succeeded in turning a British Government plant for vaccine production into a successful private venture. The other partners are the Neogen Corporation, a Lansing-based company that develops and markets diagnostic tests, and Michigan Biologic Products Inc., which is made up of seven managers of the state-owned plant, including the laboratory's director, Robert Myers.

....

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0DEFDC...

-------

Emergent BioSolutions Celebrates Initial Public Offering; CEO To Ring Opening Bell on the NYSE

http://www.genengnews.com/news/bnitem.aspx?name=9255468
BIOWIRE

Emergent BioSolutions Inc. (NYSE:EBS), a biopharmaceutical company that develops vaccines and therapeutics for biodefense and commercial applications and manufactures the only anthrax vaccine approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), today announced it will be celebrating the Company's recently completed initial public offering with the ringing of the opening bell of the New York Stock Exchange by Fuad El-Hibri, chairman and chief executive officer, on Wednesday November 22, 2006.

"Throughout the Company's history, our people, science and technology have contributed significantly to safeguarding millions of military personnel and the general population through the delivery of a safe and effective countermeasure against the threat of anthrax infection," said Mr. El-Hibri. "Tomorrow's ringing of the opening bell is an opportunity to celebrate our Company and our achievements thus far, while acknowledging the commitment and support of our employees, customers and, now, investors who continue to drive our success."

Emergent BioSolutions' common stock began trading on November 15, 2006 under the symbol EBS. Emergent is a biopharmaceutical company focused on the development, manufacture and commercialization of immunobiotics, such as vaccines and immune globulins, that induce or assist the body's immune system to prevent or treat disease. The Company operates in two business segments: biodefense and commercial. In its biodefense business, the Company develops and commercializes immunobiotics for use against biological agents that are potential weapons of bioterrorism. In its commercial business, the Company develops immunobiotics for use against infectious diseases with significant unmet or underserved medical needs.

The Company's marketed product, BioThra x(R) (Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed), is the only vaccine approved by the FDA for the prevention of anthrax infection. For more information about BioThrax, please review the package insert located on the Company's website www.emergentbiosolutions.com . In addition to BioThra x(R), the Company's biodefense product portfolio includes three biodefense product candidates in preclinical development and a next generation anthrax vaccine program with product candidates in preclinical and Phase I clinical development. The Company's commercial product portfolio includes a typhoid vaccine candidate and a hepatitis B therapeutic vaccine candidate, both of which are in Phase II clinical development, one vaccine candidate in Phase I clinical development and two vaccine candidates in preclinical development.

....

http://mbvic.blogspot.com/2006/11/emergent-biosolutions...

--------

Friday, August 1, 2008 - 2:40 PM EDT
Emergent BioSolutions applies for anthrax vaccine awardWashington Business Journal - by Tierney Plumb Staff Reporter

Emergent BioSolutions Inc. has submitted a proposal in response to a request issued by the Department of Health and Human Services for a recombinant protective antigen anthrax vaccine the company recently bought.

The Rockville-based biotechs vaccine candidate is a reformulated and more stable form of the one originally developed at the Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases.

The award could be granted as soon as the end of the year.

In May, Emergent paid $2 million to VaxGen Inc. for an anthrax vaccine candidate that the California competitor had been developing under an $878 million Department of Health and Human Services contract. That contract was canceled in December 2006 when VaxGen missed a deadline to begin a clinical trial.

Emergent said one Phase II clinical trial of the vaccine has been completed.

The government wants to procure 25 million doses of a vaccine to replenish the countrys stockpile for natural disasters or terrorist attacks.

If Emergent (NYSE:EBS) wins the award, the doses procured would be in addition to the 18.75 million doses of the companys FDA-licensed product, BioThrax, which is being procured under the existing multiyear $448 million contract the Department of Health and Human Services signed with Emergent.

...

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2008/07/2...


----------

I'm still keeping an eye on Elusys too (Neil Bush's anthrax startup). But Emergent adding Allbaugh and doing an IPO is like a road map to cui bono BFEE-style. Now did the "suicide" victim Ivins stand to make any money? I don't see that. Instead he was still a gov scientist. Who has left USAMRIID for private sector? Anyone who Ivins published with? ( http://en.scientificcommons.org/bruce_e_ivins http://www.biomedexperts.com/Profile.aspx?n=Bruce_E_Ivi... )

Who has a lot of Pfizer or Emergent stock from the anthrax scientist crowd? Watch Ivins will be the usual lone nut while a lot very linked in BFEE folks profit.







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
218. odd manner of suicide from a knowledgeable person
tylenol poisoning is a hard way to go, maybe the codeine made it easier tho i dunno

not the method of suicide i would have chosen, there are certainly easier/quicker ways

not saying i smell a tin foil hat but it's just things that make you go hmmm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
221. KO reporting on this now
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 07:15 PM by Geek_Girl
The LA times Reporter is on and said more detailed information should be released in the coming days.

:tinfoilhat:
Now I am afraid that there is going to be another attack in the coming days.
:hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
222. Suicide. My. Ass.
:tinfoilhat: :hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
226. BS. The REich is desperatly attempting to tie up all loose
Edited on Fri Aug-01-08 07:47 PM by Phred42
before they loose control
We will see more of this kind of thing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
230. He wouldn't be the first scientist who was a flat out nut case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKthatsIT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #230
231. with an answer like that one...I could guess who you work for
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spag68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-08 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
234. I have some knowledge of vicodan
The article I read described it as the overdose. What I want to say is that if you took enough to die of an overdose, your stomach would explode. Each one of these pills contains 750mg of aspirin and 75mg of codeine. My guess is it would take 20 or so to do the job, that's 15000mg of aspirin. This whole thing stinks really bad. Why didn't they use one of the Russian's untraceable poisons?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
235. How CONVENIENT - for the WAR CRIMINALS...
just another AMAZING COOINCIDENCE!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Aug 22nd 2014, 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC