Man stabbed, beheaded on bus to Winnipeg from Edmonton

[DS1]

Source: Globe and Mail Update

A young man travelling on a Greyhound bus was stabbed to death and beheaded by a stranger in a horrifying act of apparently random violence.

The incident occurred on a bus travelling from Edmonton to Winnipeg just before 10 p.m. Wednesday.

A man of about 18 who was sleeping with headphones on was suddenly attacked by his seat mate, according to the man who sat directly in front of them.

He was stabbed repeatedly with a large hunting knife, sending blood spraying across the interior of the bus. The driver quickly pulled over and passengers fled out the front door.

The man then sawed off the victim's head and carried it to the front of the bus.

Read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080731.wmanbus0731/BNStory/National/home

---

C'mon, f*cking guy!

[Zuiderelle]

1. OMG

[bigworld]

2. More details from CBC

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/31/greyhound-transcanada.html

[madaboutharry]

3. I don't know what to say, I am horrified.

n/t

[crim son]

4. Holy Shit.

When imagining one's own death, nobody ever says to himself, "Maybe I'll be on a bus ride to Winnipeg, and a fellow passenger will saw off my head with a hunting knife. Hmmm..."

Nightmares forthcoming.

[Hugin]

8. They don't?

Hmm... I just know mine will have something to do with a "Clown".

[SpookyCat]

174. The next time someone asks me to explain "gallows humor"...

I'm going to point them to crim son's post and your reply.

Thank you for the laugh in the middle of a horrifying story.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

205. I believe you.

[Juneboarder]

56. Ugh... this makes my tummy hurt

I'm having a hard time even picturing this. How can someone do this so calmly.

[crim son]

59. Insanity.

The only explanation.

[chill_wind]

170. Truely! n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. Jay-zus!

That's fucking horrifying.

[AndyA]

6. What the hell is going on with people today?

There are some sick, deranged people walking around that shouldn't be. And they all seem to have knives or guns.

[grahamhgreen]

34. Have you seen "Saw" or "Hostel" or any Tarantino flick? Why are these films funded?

[Taverner]

54. Ahhh once again the "devil made me do it" defense

People aren't crazy, its those movies and Marilyn Manson movies that did it!

[NYC Liberal]

84. And people never did things like this before?

People have been doing sick shit since the beginning of time.

[LostinVA]

111. Exactly, we just hear more about them now, and people want to "rationalize" it

Because the randomness of it is terrifying.

[LostinVA]

110. Those stupid movies had NOTHING to do with it -- the guy has to be insane

[ContraBass Black]

123. I bet he played video games, read comic books, and listened to rock and rap music too.

:eyes:

[marshall]

159. You forgot about him eating twinkies, ding dongs, and ho hos

[Truth4Justice]

195. He will be "eating" Thorazine in a padded cell, if he is as insane as this, forever.

[madeline_con]

134. They were watching "Zorro" for crisake.

Can't someone just be bat shit crazy and get violent without the finger pointing and search for a scapegoat? The fact is, some people do nasty things. Some do them on a regular basis, some just do one nasty thing their whole lives. Humans are like that.

[defendandprotect]

175. To create a market for them . . .

[Truth4Justice]

192. Same reason they make porn. Some people like that kind of garbage.

Hard as it is to believe there are some sick bastards out in the world, that are laughing about this awful tragedy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

237. Why are they funded?

Because they're good and they turn a profit?

[madeline_con]

129. Anhd if they don't they buy them! What IS the world coming to? n/t

[Truth4Justice]

199. I shudder to think what this guy would have done had he had a gun handy!

No, I am not turning this into an "anti-gun" thread, but just think about it.

This guy would have been a perfect human "terminator", by all we have
read thus far.

No emotions, cool, calm and then he pulls a sawed-off shotgun out.....

[Withywindle]

249. I would rather be killed with a gun than this way.

Just sayin.' Faster at least.

[Truth4Justice]

261. Faster, if he hit your body/head: Guns don't always kill . He could have killed more with a shotgun.

had that been handy. Not that what he did wasn't a horrible tragedy.

[bicentennial_baby]

7. Holy fuck...

From the link someone posted above:

"While we were waiting on the side of the road, he was taunting the police with the head in his hand,"

The mind reels...

[DS1]

9. I'm sparing everyone the obvious

Rick Astley joke.

This is some twisted shit.

[bicentennial_baby]

12. I'm really at a loss for words...

Dayum.

[madeline_con]

147. The next line should have been

"And then we heard shots, and he tumbled out of the bus, dead."

[AndyTiedye]

191. Here, The Bad Guys Have Guns Too

[Truth4Justice]

197. It would save the taxpayers lots of money had he been killed but we wouldn't know the why of it all.

If there is any "why" that is.

[Eurobabe]

10. Horrendous.

No other words.

[Blue_Tires]

11. god fuckin' damn.. that's something out of a cheesy hollywood horror flick

ewww...

[ellenfl]

18. you can bet it will become one. eom

[wvbygod]

13. Has anyone heard a description of the killer?

His nationality or other background?

[Hugin]

16. The article only gives his physical discription and says he otherwise seemed 'normal'. nt

[redqueen]

17. shaved head... sunglasses

no other description other than calm, robotic.

[Riktor]

152. Flat Affect

Generally not a good sign, from a psychologist's point of view.

[Truth4Justice]

198. That's what upsets everyone. He WAS cool and calm, and then struck without any warning at all.

[LynnTheDem]

23. "sick MFer"

They come in all nationalities, all colors, and all backgrounds.

[Indenturedebtor]

36. He was presumable a Canadian

Canadian: A naturalised/native born citizen of Canada.

See also - Hockey Fan, Mounty, "Eh", Strong Beer

[slackmaster]

76. I've seen a real Canadian or two

[Indenturedebtor]

136. Lol n/t

[Canuckistanian]

166. Hahaha

Damn, you nailed us.

:rofl:

[tuckessee]

51. "...aboriginal in appearance... ...hip-hop clothing...."

A passenger on the bus "said the victim boarded in Edmonton, was Aboriginal in appearance, and was wearing hip-hop clothing, and appeared to be a young man around 20 years of age.

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=7886faf4-e8e9-4217-ac1d-66563d16ec9f

[Mike Daniels]

55. Interesting that they give the victim's apparent race but not the killer's

Seems odd to reveal one and not the other unless the officials feel that releasing the race or ethnicity of the killer could lead to problems of some nature.

[tuckessee]

57. You're very right.

Certainly some the witnessees mentioned the killer's description to reporters but for some reason they won't divulge it to us.

It makes much more sense to sit on details of the victim until his next of kin have been notified but why mask the killer's description?

[Lilith Velkor]

219. The killer is probably white

No need to mention the ethnicity of "default human beings."

[iverglas]

221. actually

The thread is very long so I'm sure this is here somewhere now --

All of the information initially available was from witnesses. The police released no information.

The main witness, the man sitting in front of the victim and assailant, described the assailant as either aboriginal or asian. It turns out (I presume from his surname, Li) that he is Asian.

There is no reason to suspect that the ethnicity of either victim or accused played any role in the incident. It appears that the accused changed seats after a rest stop, specifically after selecting the best location/victim in the bus for what he was planning.

[fudge stripe cookays]

247. Thank goodness.

reprehensor has a large cousin who is schizophrenic, and we still hadn't heard anything about the killer. We were getting a little freaked out.

That was probably the wrong term to use, but it makes us a feel a small bit better about this tragedy.

[marshall]

163. I wonder if their Aboriginals have the same problems as ours?

I know they used to take the children away and raise them in boarding schools where they were indoctrinated into white "civilized" culture. I'm sure that has left a mark on the society even if it is no longer practiced.

[Truth4Justice]

200. Not so far, other then he was shaven-headed. Nothing about his race, but that happens in the US too.

[Hugin]

14. Gruesome...

Beyond comprehension.

[crim son]

29. But not out of the realm of your fantasy!

:P

[redqueen]

15. god almighty

that poor kid's parents. :(

[1620rock]

22. This happened in Canada?...God save us all.

[navarth]

19. Ye Godz that's some sick shit

That seems a bit beyond mental illness. Is it possible Mama Nature is just throwing these things at us because we're overpopulated? There's something really weird about these nutcases that go postal.

[bicentennial_baby]

20. Hmmmm...more info:

Caton described the man who attacked the passenger as about six feet tall, 200 pounds, with a bald head and wearing sunglasses. He seemed oblivious to others when the stabbing occurred, said Caton.

Caton said he was struck by how calm the man was. He just walked up to the front of the bus and dropped the head, Caton said.

Caton said the victim boarded in Edmonton, was Aboriginal in appearance, and was wearing hip-hop clothing, and appeared to be a young man around 20 years of age.

Ok, it's NOT funny, but the first part of this quote made me LOL:

"When we saw the head, we knew he was dead," he said. "I don't think the guy knew him at all. I think he was really crazy ... the poor guy, he didn't see it coming."

Much more detailed story here:

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=7886faf4-e8e9-4217-ac1d-66563d16ec9f

[uppityperson]

62. Damn. And yes, that quote got me also.

Able to mix horror with dark humor here. The poor guy, those poor people.

[defendandprotect]

177. "There was no rage or anything. He was like a robot, stabbing the guy," he said.

I don't know . . .

Can we really believe that such violent, murderous behavior like this springs up from nowhere . . . ?

[Kool Kitty]

263. "...wen we saw the head, we knew he was dead."

Yep, that would do it. Nothing like decapitation to bring on death.

[navarth]

21. Of course if the sleeping guy had been carrying a GUN....

he could have woken up, got his gun out and killed the murderer with a karate kick....all with multiple stab wounds in his throat.

How long will it take for someone to make this into an argument for arming everybody with assault weapons?

[DS1]

24. They'll point out that another passenger could have shot the perp

but even then, it would have been too late for the kid.

[uncle ray]

30. not as long apparantly,

as it takes an anti-gunner to manage to drag guns INTO the discussion of the incident that has nothing to do with guns.

if there were a Goodwin's law of gun talk, you would have lost.

[ann_american2004]

33. excellent

[Maine-ah]

46. thankyou

:applause:

[navarth]

61. I think you meant to say 'apparently' didn't you?

I'm not necessarily anti-gun. I'm just anti-gun NUT. Guns are sometimes necessary. Gun nuts are never necessary.

[ann_american2004]

66. and neither is a spelling-bee nut

you know, people can get CRAZY with their letters

[navarth]

68. Nobody dies from correct spelling, Annie.

I take it you're of the gun loving variety?

[ann_american2004]

82. lol- not really. I dont own a gun

but i think it's silly to take away other people's rights for fear of a few wackos who will do whatever it takes to kill a person with whatever is available.
It doesnt make any sense. They will still do it regardless and all other people are, in the meantime, safely 'freed' of another one of their Constitutional rights (as in the wish for gun control in the US).

[navarth]

90. here we agree.

but....a 'few' whackos? ehh...

I wish it wasn't so, but there's a whole buttload of them.

I know lots of responsible gun owners. They agree with me about the nuts.

[WildEyedLiberal]

150. And what, exactly, do "gun nuts" have to do with this conversation?

The poster above is correct - NO ONE was talking about guns until you inanely dragged them into the discussion. There WERE no "gun nuts" insisting that if the kid had been armed he'd have somehow escaped and shot his assailant. But that didn't stop you from creating a straw man against which you can rail, did it? :eyes:

I think it's supremely tacky to use a horrific tragedy like this to score cheap political points, especially when said cheap political points have fuck all to do with the actual tragedy.

[navarth]

213. sorry.

I've been getting bombarded at work with emails that point to tragedies that would have been stopped 'if everybody had been armed'. I was pretty bugged with it when I posted....and I was fully expecting to see it in this thread. I should have waited. Apologies.

Straw man? Cheap political points? Ehh....if you say so. I'm done with it.

[spin]

31. The laws in Canada are not gun friendly. (n/t)

[Spiffarino]

37. If only he'd been Chuck Norris

Then he would have read the stranger's thoughts and "pre-killed" him before he could have drawn his knife.

Yep. You can bet the Freepers will spew pro-NRA bullshit from mommy's basement about how the right to carry a pistol/Uzi/hand grenade/rocket launcher would have surely saved his life.

[Scout]

38. already happened, in the other thread on this topic.... n/t

[madeline_con]

141. Or we could ban knives ,and break bread instead of slicing! n/t

[Truth4Justice]

193. Not sticking up for the extremist gun lovers, but they are right about people killing people.....

with items other then a gun.

I would be very tacky, to say the least, if anyone were to use this murder as an example of why we "need" to have more guns, however.

This killer is certainly insane beyond any doubt, gun or no gun.

[my2sense]

25. Oh My Dayum n/t

[Kablooie]

26. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

But a man ain't gotta do this.

[Evoman]

27. I was going to post on this...I saw the news this morning on my local news channel.

It's fucking horrific...and completely random.

I wonder if the guy is schizo or psychopathic or something...it seems really bizarre.

[Parche]

28. That Is Just Fukin Sick

What are people on these days?

:grr: :hi:

[ann_american2004]

32. Crazy in Canada

“People should always be open to looking at precautionary measures...” Mr. Day said.

Yeah like watching out for a crazy man with a knife. There should be a ban in Canada of anything that could be used as a weapon. Such violence and gore weapons create! What will we tell the children?

[defendandprotect]

35. "Shock & Awe" . . .???

I was coming in to suggest that we not follow the MSM in running "bleeds" . . .

but I wasn't sure that at all that my suggestion was worthwhile ---

This is so harmful to all of us --- obviously we're not only creating new physical

diseases among our people, we're creating mental disorders. And, why not?

Look at the insanity in the White House.

This can shock the mind ---

And my mind is kind of bouncing to why this shock is further proof to me that the

death penalty is wrong. As long as the state kills, killing can seem normal.

As long as we respond to violence with violence, we will trigger more of it.


The brutal aggressiveness and violent direction that this administration is pushing

our nation in is only clearer proof that violence can be used to trigger more violence -

to spread it, to teach it.


I haven't actually read the story -- but this is obviously someone who has long needed

mental health care --- and while we have throw hundreds of millions, billions, trillions

into waste and war -- the true needs of our people for care and attention are ignored.

I'm sad for all of us who have to be shocked once more today by such news ---

it harms the spirit --- and those who can stop this mayhem are ignoring us!!!

[AtheistCrusader]

39. This happened in CANADA

Abolished the death penalty a decade ago. Not in Iraq. Has national health care. Does not have a Bush administration.

Why would you go on a huge rant about the US without reading the article?

[defendandprotect]

41. Probably because . . .

I really didn't want to read it ---

What are you ascribing this to in this event . . ?

[AtheistCrusader]

42. The title talks about Canadia cities..

You didn't actually have to read it to get the context. As for what I ascribe this to, some people are just broken. They don't always seek help. Maybe the guy he attacked was snoring? There isn't always a rhyme or reason, or a clearly identifiable cause.

[bicentennial_baby]

44. It seems to me that he may have targeted the guy, as he

switched seats to sit next to him after the bus stopped for a cigarette break.

And wearing the sunglasses at night...That's certainly odd.

[defendandprotect]

47. I noticed the event . . . and stopped . . .

OKAY... so you're saying this is one that slipped thru the safety net -- ??

[AtheistCrusader]

50. Possibly.

If he hasn't committed any prior crimes, and hasn't displayed any crazed behavior before, the only way he would really be exposed to any mental heath evaluation is if he voluntarily sought it out himself. As far as I know, Canada does not randomly pull people off the steets and evaluate their mental health.

A lot of other potential factors, like a bad trip on some sort of drug that impaired his judgment, maybe it was a hate crime, maybe he has a couple months to live and this was his way of initiating a suicide by cop, who knows. It's a little too early to expect to, or claim to understand his motives. More information will be forthcoming I'm sure. Let's wait for a full understanding, or at least a police investigation, before we start apportioning blame on random Government policies of the wrong country.

[defendandprotect]

173. I've seen a little later report ....

and it said he got on in Manitoba - but I don't see an ID yet --

As I clicked on to the internet tonight, this Brazilian story was being featured . . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080801/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_teenager_killed;_ylt=Avk1j9fzyw4tNC1cKEh34h.s0NUE

I can certainly suppose along with you at the many possibilities behind this man's actions;
however, I think we have to acknowledge that male violence is something too little examined
no matter what country we're talking about -- and that certainly the violence/brutality set
loose my America has a worldwide impact.

[LostinVA]

254. I think this has more to do with "psychopath violence" than "male violence"

Normal men don't do stuff like this. Psychopaths do stuff like this.

:eyes:

[StateRed]

43. kneejerk autobot responses

about how evil the US is, even utopia Canada can't avoid horrifying murders.

ever stop and think it's a HUMAN situation problem and not some pseudo national evil?

[Dr. Strange]

49. Nope, it's Bush's fault.

Hell, I got bunion that I just know Rove had something to do with!

Welcome to DU, StateRed. :hi:

[superconnected]

88. I'm still waiting to find out if it was an American who did it.

[Darth_Kitten]

171. I'm in Winnipeg, trust me, Canada is getting more dangerous.....

gangs, shootings, etc etc.

[wordpix]

267. my son in Montreal used to say the the subway is great---now he talks about all the strange people

riding it. And the first time I visited, our locked car was broken into via two side windows in the middle of winter, and stuff stolen. When we took it to a window place to get it fixed, there were a bunch of other cars with missing windows ---same thing.:grr:

[MilesColtrane]

40. iPod rage?

[Phoonzang]

45. Why does there have to be a reason behind things

like this? Someone or something to blame. Some people are just plain crazy and homicidal. Always have been people like that, probably always will.

[snooper2]

48. Same thing as rabid dogs

The analogy I give when the anti-death penalty folks come out...

If this happens or some sick fucker rapes and kills a 4 year old; rabid dog needs put down


6.5 Billion people on this Earth- some are going to be born evil

[LostinVA]

113. The odds are this guy is insane, not a sociopath

And, I'm violently anti-DP, because I don't approve of murder, especially when the State does it. Life in prison without parole is cheaper and a better punishment.

Plus, rabid dogs aren't covered by the Justice system.

[Riktor]

158. I think not

This guy was way too collected to be insane. The only form of mental illness that may produce violent behavior is Schizophrenia - Paranoid Type, and this guy doesn't really fit the bill. Paranoid Schizophrenics kill because they feel threatened, while this guy relished in the prospect of taking another person's life.

Sorry, but to take pleasure in killing doesn't qualify one as insane. It certainly makes one abnormal, in a sense, but bloodlust does not make one so detached from reality that they are no longer able to discern between what is real and what is imaginary. This guy knew what he was doing, and he knew it was wrong. He just didn't care.

[LostinVA]

184. I think so -- My cousin-in-law works with the "criminally insane"

NOT sociopaths, but actually insane people. This is very similar to the case studies she tells us about.

We shall see.

[AndyTiedye]

257. Would Be Better for Him to be Locked Up and Studied

so we can find out what went wrong with this person's head!

[defendandprotect]

178. You know, people used to say things like that when people

asked "why?" in regard to the Jewish Holocaust in Germany ---

They'd say, "if you could understand something like that, you'd be as crazy as Hitler."

But there were reasons why these things happen --- and we certainly understdand the

"why's" of that time better now.

Male violence has gone too long unacknowledged --- everywhere.

And, certainly the violence that my own nation is spreading effects everyone ---


Also note the the irony in one of the comments above where someone points out that this

is just like a Tarantino horror movie . . . and the next poster misses what should be

the impact of that connection to suggest that it will be a movie ---


Over three decades now there have been vast efforts by "media" to frighten the public -

to make them distrustful of their fellow man --- to distrust their own societies.

"If it bleeds it leads." The Drug War used to further those violent stories --- though

we well know that the Drug War can't exist without the corruption and cooperation of

the highest officials of government and police enforcement ---

[Withywindle]

251. There has always been evil shit like this that humans have done to other humans.

You can't blame it on any media or pop culture shibboleth, because if you've really read history, you realize there's probably LESS of this kind of thing going on now than in most of human history - policing is more efficient, the message that it's NOT OK to do this has sunk deeper.

Your chances of having something like this happen to you are orders of magnitude less than they were in, say, the European Dark Ages. And if it does, the chances of having the public and/or someone official giving a shit about it or even noticing are orders of magnitude greater than they were back then. (Unless you were royalty, it might make history then. But only if.)

[maxsolomon]

52. mental illness

there's no other reason possible.

[Baby Snooks]

53. It's a different world we live in..

And a very dangerous world as well.

[heliarc]

67. I'm not so sure it's that different...

Beheadings and atrocities like this go way back through recorded history...

[defendandprotect]

180. Unfortunately . . .

much of the violence is delivered by organized patriarchal religions ---

The Crusades having introduced new precedents in torture, violence.

Stonings and other Bibical remedies for "sin" ---

[Redstone]

58. That's why I could never be a cop. I'd have shot the fucker dead right there.

Redstone

[ChazII]

60. Sadly,

I think I would do the same thing in a case like this.

[jus_the_facts]

63. People just left the bus without even attempting to STOP the guy...

....I'm a GIRL and I would have tried SOMETHING...instead of just running away...jesus fuckin' christ. :evilfrown:

[closeupready]

64. But you know what, it's easy to say that from behind a keyboard and computer screen, but

do you know for a fact that you are not susceptible to panic when faced with someone murdering another person right in front of you? Sometimes I think TV and films make it seem to people like, if someone had tried to intervene they would have been successful. Because that's how it happens on TV and in films. The intervenor gets a flesh wound, maybe a broken arm, and gets patched up in the last five minutes of the show and happy ending.

But most people DO panic. That's a human response. Not saying that it's okay to ignore people who are in distress; rather, when people flee, don't condemn them without knowing more about why they fled.

[Psephos]

69. Courage is not the absence of fear

It's the ability to do what's necessary or good despite fear.

On that basis, what the passengers did was not courageous. Understandable? Maybe. But it seems to me that lack of courage is one of the problems of our time.

[jus_the_facts]

157. "the ability to do what's necessary or good despite fear."

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[AndyTiedye]

194. Fear Produces Adrenaline

and while adrenaline is supposed to be FOR this sort of situation,
some of us find it most unhelpful.

Yeah, gets the heart pumping faster, more oxygen to the muscles,
but it totally fucks up my coordination, which isn't too great to start with.

Only way to stop the adrenaline from happening is to be literally fearless.
I don't think I can do that.

[jus_the_facts]

73. Yeah I know for a FACT I'd panic on that freaks ass and try to DO something...

....I wouldn't pussy out and run away or plead for mercy...and I sure as fuck don't live my life by what's portrayed on the idiot box. :eyes:

[closeupready]

75. Sounds good, but I'd bet you haven't even come close to such a situation to

know what you'd do. Whatever - Peace! :hi:

[jus_the_facts]

80. You just lost money...don't assume and project your own feelings on me...

....thanks. :hi:

[Megahurtz]

122. WOO HOO!

Great posts! :applause:

[jus_the_facts]

153. Thank You...yours have been too I see....

:applause:

[uppityperson]

105. you wouldn't "pussy out"? Ah, well then. There you go. How about those who exited bus?

Did they "pussy out"?

[closeupready]

137. Well following the train of posts, I guess they did pussy out.

:sarcasm: :eyes:

[devilgrrl]

142. Come now uppityperson - he was only 6 ft./200 lbs. - you so could have taken him.

My grandmother could have kicked his ass - what were those gutless passengers thinking?

:sarcasm:

[Riktor]

160. Quit slapping yourself of the back,

In 1964, dozens of New Yorkers stared out their windows and watched a man stab Kitty Genovese to death.

These people were not immune to the Bystander Effect and Diffusion of Responsibility, and neither are you. Save your moral indignation for those who deserve it and cut these people some fucking slack.

[jus_the_facts]

168. I've read Harlan Ellison's "The Wimper of Whipped Dogs"....

....and I wouldn't have stood by and just watched THAT happen without trying to do something either.

[Riktor]

207. You are incredibly naive.

Bravado doesn't impress me.

The fact of the matter is that you were not on that bus, and thus you were not subjected to the same powerful social and psychological forces as those passengers. Hence, you cannot rightly make authoritative statements about "what you would have done if you were in that situation". You were not in that situation, and your egotistical moral outright is utterly without merit.

[jus_the_facts]

214. You are incredibly pompous....

...the FACT of the matter is you don't know me...so you can't say one way or another what I'd do in any given circumstance...nor what kind of situations I've been in personally that merit my attitude.

on edit...you avatar is so ironical I laugh in the face of your pompousness.

[uppityperson]

241. Next time I go on a bus ride, I wanna have you along to protect me. What's your phone # so I can

call you to set it up?

[Lars39]

70. Close quarters, a big knife, guy willing and able to use it...

they did the best thing by getting everybody off the bus and locking him in it.

[bigworld]

72. The guy was already decapitated and was just stabbing him repeatedly

I try to think of myself as pretty ballsy, but I would have gotten the hell out of that bus pretty quickly at that point.

[devilgrrl]

79. So you'd take on a 6 ft. 200lb. male waving a hunting knife around?

Come off of it. :eyes:

[LostinVA]

115. You forgot crazed 6 ft. 200lb. male waving a hunting knife around

With, as per witnesses, a literal bloodbath splattering the bus.r
I
'd sure as hell run.

This was very different than the UU church shooting or the bravery of those in the Virginia Tech massacre. And, passengers DID go back and DID contain the guy until cops got there.

[The Stranger]

81. If the victim were still alive and screaming during the ordeal, I could see myself grabbing a

suitcase or luggage and throwing it at that motherfucker.

But, then again, I'd probably be brutally murdered for it, stabbed to death and no longer able to post here.

[AndyTiedye]

190. I Could Also See the Luggage Hitting a Fleeing Passenger Who Then Becomes a Victim

I'm not a very good shot to begin with, and adrenaline really messes up my coordination.
For the same reason, firearms would be useless to me.

[The Stranger]

209. I was just thinking of something to try to distract him from his killing.

If he has a knife, then a large incoming suitcase may be a good weapon to throw him off balance. Then maybe some others could join in and try to save the victim's life.

See, I feel like a hero already.

[superconnected]

89. The guy has a big knife and was stabbing someone in the neck.

I'm female too, but I'm to smart to take him on.

I take it you are well trained in martial arts?

[Gormy Cuss]

96. When someone is yelling RUN! the natural inclination is to do so.

Remember that a bus is a narrow enclosed space and that most of the passengers well in front of the attack may not have seen anything, nor known that someone was under attack. If you were seated near the attack you would have had a chance to react but I'm guessing most didn't understand what was happening until they were off the bus and by then it was too late for the poor guy.

The driver did disable the bus so that the attacker couldn't drive it away and several passengers did contain the attacker by holding the door shut. It's not as if no one reacted defensively.

[LostinVA]

114. Of course they did -- you and I probably would have, too

Especially in such a confined space -- the description makes it clear it was a literal bloodbath.

Some passengers, the bus driver, and a truck driver went back and tried to help, but the killer was in the act of SAWING off teh victim's head. They kept the guy confined to the bus to stop more bloodshed and/or have the guy disappear into the community.

What a horrible thing.

[Megahurtz]

120. NO FUCKING SHIT!

People are fucking amazing. :banghead:

:wow:

[tidy_bowl]

220. Happened too quickly....

...besides you never know how any of us would react. Self preservation runs deep.

[iverglas]

222. and I'm pretty sure all of this will have been said already ...

I set CBC Newsworld to wake me up in the morning. This is what woke me up yesterday. I listened to every word of the initial interview with the main witness.

By the time he realized what was happening in the seat behind him, at the back of the bus, it was very likely to late to save the life of the victim. The assailant was a very large man who was repeatedly stabbing the victim, first in the neck, apparently, with a very large knife.

His first reaction was to alert the driver to stop the bus, and get the other passengers out.

A choice: try to stop the attack alone, hoping to alert others who would then help (this was the middle of the night, in a dark bus in the middle of nowhere, with many people undoubtedly asleep), at the risk of being injured or killed, or act to prevent harm to others. It's a judgment call. I'm not going to try to substitute mine for his.

That witness and the driver and a truck driver who stopped to help made sure that the other passengers were safe and then boarded the bus to see whether they could do anything for the victim. The assailant made obviously threatening movements. They exited the bus and physically held the door to prevent him from getting out. They secured the situation for the 10 minutes or so it took police to arrive.

I like to think I would risk my safety to save someone being attacked, myself. But I also like to think I would have the presence of mind to make the right decision when there are other potential dangers present, and I think the witness who got the bus stopped, helped to evacuate passengers and helped to prevent further assaults and possible deaths did a right thing in the circumstances.

[Shakespeare]

223. Exactly. I think his actions WERE heroic.

There were children on that bus, for godsakes--and I think a greater good was served by getting everybody else off that bus (especially the children) as soon as humanly possible before that nutcase turned on anybody else.

Anybody who criticizes the people on that bus for how they reacted is either 1. suicidal, 2. dumber than a box of rocks, 3. delusional, or 4. too dim to understand that you help as many people to safety as you can FIRST before you go back and pull an armed insane person off a dead body.

[iverglas]

225. I was just about to add that --

There were children on the bus. There were a couple of dozen other people who could have been killed in an instant by a very large man with a very large knife had he turned his attention for a moment.

This is not like a fight on a street, where it might be possible to try to intervene and get away if it turns ugly. This was in the back of a dark intercity bus. Those people were trapped, unless quick action was taken to release them. No one could possibly predict what that man would do next, or whether it would be possible to restrain him sufficiently to prevent him from injuring or killing someone else.

I think the initial witness probably felt alone -- the bus was not full, others were undoubtedly sleeping -- and did what his own instincts prompted him to do to protect the others on the bus. He has impressed me considerably in the interviews I've seen/heard. Just an ordinary young guy faced with a situation he never expected to see in his life, any more than I do.

[LostinVA]

231. The Mounties' spokesman called the passengers' behavior "brave and "extraordinary"

And that their quick actions saved lives.

I was attacked in another thread on this -- VERY badly. Ugh. Armchair heroics, and blaming the other victims.

[CraftyGal]

246. Actually people did try to help...

there were children on the bus, the first thing was to get them off the bus. 3 men tried to get back on the bus, however the suspect was heading (no pun intended) towards them with the head in one hand, knife in the other. They realized that this guy was insane and made sure that he was unable to get off the buss. Because of the level headed people on that bus, this horrific tragedy didn't become worse.

The young man was from Winnipeg and had just finished working at the Capital EX and the Stampede. He was heading home.

The suspect was from Edmonton and worked with at contractor to deliver the Edmonton Journal. He was heading to Winnipeg, apparently for a job interview.

[fishwax]

65. wtf

:wtf::(

[uppityperson]

71. Another story, at least they won't make people register knives.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gucXyGORKt6zHK_4StpKtCZuZCiQ

Public Safety Minister Stockwell is expressing shock at what he calls a "horrific" bus stabbing that he's calling one-of-a-kind in Canadian history. Day was reacting to what witnesses say was a savage knife attack on a Greyhound bus in Manitoba that resulted in a person being killed and later beheaded.

Day, in Levis, Que., for a summer planning session of Conservative MPs, says the full weight of the law must be brought to bear on the perpetrator.

But he says such an incident is, thankfully, extremely rare - in fact he's calling it "probably one-of-a-kind in Canadian history."

Day says he wouldn't even entertain the notion of registering knives as dangerous weapons, noting that millions of kitchen knives alone are likely sold each year.

[LanternWaste]

77. Is anyone (either in Canada or the U.S.) pushing legislation

Is anyone (either in Canada or the U.S.) pushing legislation to require knife registration, or something similar? If not, odd that the story would mention it...

[AtheistCrusader]

99. Might have been more of a reference to the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/scotland/2474832/Knife-dealers-in-Scotland-will-need-a-licence-under-plans-to-tackle-blade-culture.html

And probably had nothing to do with the US.

[uppityperson]

104. I think some places have sword rules.

So now I carry my sword in a duffel bag (use it as a prop when I perform). I don't think there are knife rules, but that part struck my funny bone, wondering if it was meant for some reason or just black humor.

[CHIMO]

151. No

Don't waste your time researching it.
It is Doris' sick joke on the tragedy.

[superconnected]

92. Good cause I feel so much safter carrying one. If others on the bus would

have had a knife I'm sure this wouldn't have happened. It could have been an all out stab fest. And that's really why I carry my knife everywhere - so that I can stab people who accost me. I sort of wait for it to happen. But I'm not crazy, no. That guy who was carrying his knife was crazy. Wonder why he carries it around. He must have felt safer with it when he wasn't in acts of mental insanity using it on people.

I guess I can identify with him for that - feeling safer by carrying a weapon that will kill people if they threaten me. It shows a whole lot about my true personality.

Good luck with the law karmic brother. Oh, and sorry victim. We're not bad people - even though we(deadly weapons wielders) constantly snap and kill people. Just the ones that finish the job they started by choosing to carry a weapon to kill people are the bad ones. The rest of us are doing it for our, and your safety.... in some fantasy that we'll save people and be "heros" in our act of killing someone. Cause if it's the bad guy then it's fine to murder them, right? I only do it because I care about my family. I don't want them to be accosted by someone like.. well, me.. only who's snapped.

Too bad not many people are being saved by our hero-murderer mentality and it keeps back-firing with our fellow deadly weapons wielders snapping and doing things... like this.

[Withywindle]

252. It would have happened.

I used to carry a knife all the time, because I took a LOT of overnight cross-country trips on Greyhound (college student, POOR) and I was well aware of the creep factor.

Something like this, though - no, I'm not going to claim to be some brave superheroine. It was a small knife and I carried it for close-quarter self-defense only and I had only the barest of "training" (from a friend who used to be in gangs, but not SERIOUS machine-gun toting gangs, just street kids in Queens who used to fight sometimes).

If I'd seen something like this I'd've thought only of (1) getting myself the hell as far away as possible and (b) trying to keep my bowels in control so as not to humiliate myself.

Let's be honest here.

[iverglas]

226. of course we're all aware that Day is a piece of right-wing filth

and that the government he is part of consistently campaigns on a law-and-order platform so as to raise public fears of things of imaginary criminals.

His apparently silly statement about knife registration (I saw the interview on television) appeared to be in response to some sillier question from a journalist. It really is not worthy of comment.

Day "says the full weight of the law must be brought to bear on the perpetrator" -- thus proving that his foremost concern is his party's ability to look tough on criminals, when it is obvious to a garden slug that the "perpetrator" in this case is so insane he will never stand trial and likely never see the outside of a psychiatric facility again.

[hedgehog]

74. Anybody want to start a thread about crying babies on airplanes?

[DS1]

78. One sec, lemmie grab my things

[blues90]

83. And no body thought of stopping this attacker ?

I doubt I would just sit there without reacting even if it was just to rush over and punch the guy out . A bus load of people just ran off?

[hedgehog]

85. There weren't any Unitarians aboard.

[devilgrrl]

86. The attacker is said to be rather large, 6 ft. tall, 200 lbs. and wielding a huge hunting knife.

Gee, why didn't anyone jump up and help? Some of you can't be serious.

BTW, some of the passengers did attempt to help but it was too late. Then the knife wielding lunatic chased them off of the bus again.

[blues90]

87. I don't know the entire story , but I do know

If I saw this happening even at my 5'10" 153 pounds I would not be able to sit there and do nothing. If he was stabbing this guy this was the time to move nat after the fact, People need to learn to move faster.

I have been through a few tight spots and all I know is I did react. Hell even my wife will react.

I would not want to be sitting there after knowing I did nothing at all. I would want someone to help me if I were being attacked. Even if you fail it's better than not even trying at all .

[devilgrrl]

91. No you don't know, because it's never happened to you.

What I do know is that I would have been horrified and would try to flee like the rest of the passengers. Guess that makes me a coward, because I'd be too afraid to confront a large homicidal knife wielding nutjob, huh?

If you live in Los Angeles, a similar incident took place about 8 years ago. A woman was knifed to death by a sick fuck trying to carjack her in a mall parking lot. It was near an outside patio full of diners. If I remember correctly, the bystanders were roundly criticized for not acting. One bystander responded in his defense that the incident happened so fast that no one had a chance to do anything to help her.

You don't know what you would do.

[AtheistCrusader]

95. The specifics of the incident are odd...

But don't assume you know the history of everyone you encounter on the internet. I've faced down a teenager with a knife, and a drunk driver with a car. Everyone has a different set of experiences in their lives, and some have dealt with things that would surprise you.


I don't necessarily blame the people on the bus though. Fight or flight is a very personal decision. I think it's unfortunate no one acted during the initial attack, if he was screaming, his head was still attached, he had an airway, and he was still alive. But it is understandable. Knives, and blood invoke a very powerful response in some people. I do credit the driver for having the foresight to disable the engine.

[blues90]

98. no that has not happened to me

But there were times in the early 80's here in hollywood when my wife and I would walk up to the store for groceries at night and saw pimps shoving around a female , we always yelled out to stop , sometimes the female would yell back to mind our own business and other times the assumed pimp would stop and she would run off.

I do know myself enough to know I do react without thinking of myself first. If someone was attacking my wife I would not stand there and do nothing either so what's the difference.

I am no hero and do hope i never find myself in this situation but I also know I could not live with the guilt haunting me for doing nothing. I know it would be re-played in my head forever.

I suppose we should all live in fear and have every building and bus and train with a cop and metal detectors and body searches then the crime will happen some other way.

I have absolutely no answers for any of this. I do know there is no way to secure everyone all the time.

[AndyTiedye]

189. How Are We Supposed to Develop Super-Speed?

If he was stabbing this guy this was the time to move nat after the fact, People need to learn to move faster.

How do we do that?

And if we could do that, presumably so can the bad guys, so we're back where we started.


A lot of people say they would "do something".

There isn't any time to figure out something, so presumably you already know what you would do.

Please let us in on it.

[superconnected]

93. You want to go after a large guy with a large knife stabbing some in the throat?

[devilgrrl]

94. Gee, why didn't anyone do anything when the planes were hijacked on 9/11?

I would have done something.... blaa blaa blaa

:sarcasm:

[blues90]

101. who knows , perhaps if they had at least the towers would still be there

who knows, I doubt a box cutter would be enough to stop a few people from reacting , they all died anyway , then had no idea they were riding to become a bomb to hit the trade towers.

who the hell knows. but it's not quite the same thing on a bus , you aren't 30,000 feet in the air.

Know one knows what they are capable of in every situation, you don't know if you yourself would react or not. You might.

[tabasco]

259. I'm a combat vet.

From my observation, it's ALWAYS the big-talking people who say "I woulda kicked that ass" that are the most cowardly in danger.

[AtheistCrusader]

103. When you grow up in a society that encourages

"remain seated and stay calm, and this will all be over soon" you reap what you sow.

If the passengers of flight 93 had acted during the initial takeover of the plane, some of them might have survived. In the end, they did prevent another target from getting hit, once they found out they were going to die, so I guess that's something.

[superconnected]

106. However if it was a normal hijacking, they could have expected to

land safe and been hostages in a police/gov stand off with the hijackers. Taking over the plane would have been the worst idea in the air as it would likely mean a crash.

It wasn't until after 911 that people had to fear being killed in air on a hijacked plane - in this case running into buildings.

[AtheistCrusader]

107. I suppose the goal should be

destroy the hijackers before they gain control of the aircraft.

I feel kinda bad this thread is digressing like this.

[superconnected]

108. Okay, that sounds like a good goal.

[blues90]

100. want to, No.

I would never want to be in that situation ever.

[madeline_con]

148. They were Canadian.

That's where pacifists go to retire.

:hide:

[iverglas]

227. interesting

Would you consider your post to be consistent with the rules of this place that discourage ethnic stereotyping?

Canada's "pacifist" history consists largely of international peace-keeping -- the use of force, if necessary, to protect civilian populations.

[Riktor]

164. I'd bet my life savings you'd do exactly the same thing

I love it when all the armchair heroes come to play.

There were dozens of people on a bus when one guy went crackers and performed some unnecessary surgery on an unawares somnolent passenger.

Key word here, DOZENS.

This is prime territory for diffusion of responsibility and social loafing, otherwise known as the Bystander Effect. Sociologists and Social Psychologists have been studying this since 1964, when an entire Queens neighborhood stood by and watched a guy stab Kitty Genovese to death, so I'll spare myself the tedium of explaining it and just say, "look it up."

The way these people reacted was in no way abnormal or abhorrent. While it may run contrary to our vision of an ideal world, all they did was fold to powerful social forces and behavioral tendencies.

[uppityperson]

243. And, none of know exactly who thought what or did what. Unless you were there, and even then probabl

probably not since it was chaos. Looking back, it is easy to say "oh yeah, I'd've jumped an insane dude who outweighed me and had just stabbed to death someone else, I've jumped him before he got that guy's head sawed off or munched on him." but reality is, none of us were there and the stories coming out sound like there was no hope for the dead guy since he was murdered so quickly. It sounds like the only hope was to save everyone else.

[underpants]

97. Jeshussss

:wow:

[Sezu]

102. As a Canadian, this does not surprise me except for its

brutality. A lot of wackos travel Greyhound back and forth that route in addition to the normal poor folk who can't afford air or train, just like most places. Edmonton is one stop and anyone recently released from Edmonton Max would likely use that stop and anyone who has spent anytime around the Edmonton depot knows it is a pretty unsavoury neighbourhood.

My guess is a recent releasee who picked up the knife and a bunch of dope before he boarded the bus. Then he flipped out.

[LostinVA]

109. This is one of the most horrible, shocking, random things I have ever heard about

Good for the two drivers of the bus and truck and some passengers for at least trying to help the boy, and in keeping the killer on the bus.

When I read about this earlier, I could barely even grasp it.

[bicentennial_baby]

112. I know! I was talking to my Ex earlier about it, and

between the two of us we have read and watched a MASSIVE amount of Horror...Our jaws were both on the floor.

He said "real life horror is always worse, always..."

:hi:

[LostinVA]

118. The sawing off the head with the hunting knife is the worst part of it

[iverglas]

228. that is exactly what it is

and your reaction is exactly what mine was on waking up to this news yesterday.

It is really about all that can or needs to be said about it.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

116. Sadly, it's still better than flying Delta

[RiffRandell]

248. I hate Delta, but you are so wrong.

EWWWWWWWWWWWW.


:puke:

[Megahurtz]

117. I am even more terrified that

no one did anything to stop this maniac! :wow:

[slackmaster]

119. It's pretty hard to stop a large person who is wielding a knife in an aggressive manner

I've had some edged weapons training. A real knife attack is more brutal and violent than most people can imagine.

Unless one had some serious empty hand fighting skills skills or a baseball bat or loaded gun handy, it's unlikely that anyone could have prevented the unfortunate man's death.

[AtheistCrusader]

124. There are weapons all around you.

Fire extinguishers are the first thing that come to mind. But sure, the idea that this victim could have been saved is hypothetical in the extreme.

[DS1]

125. He was as good as dead seconds after the attack started

from what I've read. Still, stick two fingers through an eye socket as you're running by. Or a pen. Do something.

[devilgrrl]

128. The attack happened at the back of the bus, there wasn't an opportunity to run past.

:eyes:

Jesus H. Christ! Has anyone here even bothered to listen to the developments surrounding the case? Are anyone of you aware that the RCMP hasn't yet released the names of the killer or the victim?

http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/

[AtheistCrusader]

131. Yes, we are following it.

There was still a seat next to them. In either case, both witness reports I've read so far, the victim was still screaming when everyone got OFF the bus. A couple passengers went back on to see if they could help, along with the driver, and then they discovered him sawing the victim's head off.

Obviously he was grievously wounded right away, but there is a possibility he could have been saved.

[devilgrrl]

132. Too bad none of you super heroes were on hand - you'd have it under control lickedy-split

The Monday morning quarterbacking in regard to this incident is really infuriating.

Why don't you point the finger at the killer?

[AtheistCrusader]

135. I do.

See post 95.

I said I think it's unfortunate, not that the others on the bus had an OBLIGATION to risk their lives.

[closeupready]

138. Oh, I know. Too many comic book films suggesting that everyone

can do the impossible. :eyes:

[DS1]

143. Roll your eyes all you want

:eyes:

Did it say the very last seat? Sure, he probably found the very last guy, just for that reason. Still, I'm throwing out suggestions, not playing armchair bus vigilante.

[iverglas]

235. 21-gun salute

We are in complete agreement on what you have said in this thread.

The circumstances were unique -- to say the assault was unexpected is to minimize its bizarre nature to the point of absurdity: it was in an enclosed space in a moving vehicle in the dark, with a variety of random people, including children, present in that space, many undoubtedly sleeping, one victim undoubtedly already dying by the time the first witness realized what was happening.

Protecting the others present was quite reasonably foremost in any potential heroes' minds, and doing what was done -- stopping the bus and evacuating -- was essential to that.

"Extraordinary" doesn't quite do justice to the things that the passenger, bus driver and truck driver did while waiting for police, to protect the others present.

[devilgrrl]

121. Yeah, everyone just sat on their hands and let a 6 ft. 200 lb. monster knife away.

:eyes:

[Megahurtz]

126. No, they RAN.

What is a crowd up people on a 6 ft. 200 lb. guy? Or a crowd of suitcases flung at the guy? He wouldn't have a rat's chance in hell.

Somebody should have taken something heavy and knocked him over the head.

Maybe everybody should take some self defense courses because somehow this guy could have been taken out.

[devilgrrl]

127. Yeah, you go get him Superman!

Shame that you weren't there - the event would have never have taken place. Ain't that right Mr. Kent?

:eyes:

[Megahurtz]

130. Wow you are rather cowardly, aren't you?

And a smart ass to boot.
You just go run along on your merry little way, you first! :puffpiece:

After all your precious little life is way more important than some poor defenseless guy getting massacred. :sarcasm:

[devilgrrl]

133. Don't forget to blame the passengers for not doing what you would have - tough guy.

:nuke:

[Megahurtz]

139. I'm not even a guy

but at least I've got some guts.

[devilgrrl]

140. Until I see you take on a knife wielding lunatic I'll assume that you're full of shit.

Which you are by the way. :hi:

You're repugnant attitude towards the innocent passengers is truly disturbing.

[Megahurtz]

145. You're repugnant attitude towards the INNOCENT VICTIM

is revolting.

There is no way I would stand there and allow some maniac to massacre some innocent person!

Sorry if that offends your sorry little ass. :sarcasm:

I have an 18 year old daughter and she has plenty of friends with the same description as this victim
and there is no way in hell I would stand idly by without doing something to maim the killer!

FYI if the guy is stabbing this guy and cutting his head off he's got his back turned and

he's busy.

That means you have a fucking chance to do something like knock him upside of the head to take him out!

Oh but you can pat your little self on the back knowing you would get away unscathed. :sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

185. RCMP spokesman calls passengers' behavior "brave" and "extraordinary"

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/07/31/greyhound-transcanada.html

[uppityperson]

244. If he's busy cutting the head off, and can't get out of the bus, why not wait for law enforcement?

There is no one left in the bus to kill, the dude is contained, why not wait for police who could deal with him? WHY risk yourself to re-enter the bus where he was contained? If you did that, he'd have someone else to kill. The guy was trapped and couldn't hurt anyone else. Let the police deal with him then. Or is that too cowardly for you to do?

[Critters2]

238. Yeah, you're pretty damn brave when posting on an internet discussion forum.

There's no way to know how you'd react in the horrible situation described in the OP. Bravado at a keyboard is one thing. Bravado when confronted with a murderer is a whole 'nother story.

[Name removed]

144. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

188. itg 4tw

Fucking Internet tough guys

[Shakespeare]

224. They could have thrown some of the children on the bus at him to distract him!

:sarcasm:

They managed to get everybody off the bus--including children--before he could attack anyone else. I'd say they did a great fucking job, all things considered.

[LostinVA]

232. Quit saying "fuck the victim"!

Oh wait, that's what was said to ME yesterday in another thread when I said the same thing. Check it out.

[Shakespeare]

233. I think some people have a poor grasp of reality, and NO sense of self.

They'd face down a 6-foot, 200 pound nutjob wielding a ginormous knife in the middle of a murderous rampage in a confined space?

Suuuure they would, right after they soiled themselves. I think everybody on the bus (except the killer) handled themselves as admirably as they could, given the circumstances.

[LostinVA]

234. Tell em about it

OOOOOOOOO -- PM me about what's going on -- and if you ever got your mixer!!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

146. Given the way it was described, no one could have prevented the killing. n/t

[Guaranteed]

215. Exactly. nt

[Canuckistanian]

149. I heard an interview tonight with one of the passengers

He said that the attack started with no apparent warning. The victim just started screaming and everyone saw that the attacker had a large hunting knife and was calmly slashing away at the victim.

The bus driver then pulled over and everyone got out of the bus. But the attacker kept stabbing at the boy and eventually started "beheading and gutting" him.

The bus driver then closed the door and disabled the bus with help from a truck driver that had stopped to help.

Then, as the driver and others watched, the man picked up the head and dropped it on the floor right in front of them.

Police later came and arrested him as he tried to escape out of a broken window of the bus.

The passengers were then taken to a local hotel where a victim's counsellor was made available to them.

What a terror they must have lived through.

[DogPoundPup]

155. Terror they lived through and will re-live their entire life over and over

How horrendous! My sympathy to those to who survived and to the victims family. What awful, awful awful luck that poor soul had. So sad.

[defendandprotect]

186. Children, evidently, were also on the bus . . .

[myrna minx]

154. Oh my god. This has to be one of the most horrendous things I've ever read.

:wow:

[BreweryYardRat]

156. I'm not sure what the passengers should have done in this situation.

A bus is a cramped area where very few people (even if they're armed with knives of their own, which was by no means guaranteed) can move against the murderer. If they'd taken the time to clear the old people, children, and significantly physically unfit off the bus before attacking this lunatic, the poor victim would have been dead by then anyway, and some of the would-be rescuers might have died as well. Unless you've got weapons of your own (preferably a gun or something with more reach than a knife), or you can guarantee to quickly break his neck or crush his windpipe barehanded, fighting a knife-wielding lunatic up close and personal is almost ensuring your own death.

This is an ugly, difficult situation, and I'm not going to pass judgment on the other passengers.

[devilgrrl]

161. I would have shit bricks.

Seriously!

Blood spewing everywhere... I wouldn't have been able to get off that bus fast enough.

And I bet my bank account that most people here would react the same way if presented with the situation.

[uppityperson]

245. then you could've built a wall to contain him, maybe a prison even

if enough bricks were produced. You selfish person you, did you even stop to think of that? :sarcasm:

[Gormy Cuss]

162. I'm sure of what they could have done.

The passengers did what they could under the circumstances. A different set of passengers may have done things differently but there is nothing in the reports so far to suggest that the outcome would have been any better.

[iamthebandfanman]

165. holy crap

and all this time i felt so safe in canada :)
hehe

[phillysuse]

167. This is what happens when a society doesn't

allow people to carry a concealed weapon.

Someone could have shot the guy in the back while he was stabbing the victim.

We all need to have a gun with us to protect ourselves from crazy people and from the government.

[DS1]

169. Or, someone could have gone nuts and shot up a moving bus

[ManiacJoe]

172. Always possible, but highly unlikely.

But then you knew that already.

[DS1]

181. Just as unlikely as this incident

However, if he'd decided to turn around and shoot the people in the center aisle, there would have been much more of a disaster.

Works both ways :)

[ManiacJoe]

242. True for THAT group of person.

Philly suggested that anyone with a CCW license might have ended things sooner.

You suggested that some of those licenses might have shot up the bus on their own.

I pointed out that the likelihood of that happening by a person who has jumped through all the hoops to get the CCW license is extremely low.

No one is suggesting that things would have been better if the killer had had a gun.

[AndyTiedye]

256. Of Course, Criminals Don't Usually Bother Getting CCW Licenses

Enough firearms get stolen every year so there is no shortage of guns available to criminals here.

[LostinVA]

176. Oh brother

[sniffa]

239. Everyone should carry a concealed grenade, or several

Just imagine the people you could save with those.

[donco]

179. This article brings out the latent winger in me, kill the bastard. nt

[DS1]

182. Don't have to be a winger to think that

:hi:

Some people just need euthanizing.

Uh oh, I said a Nazi word.

[iverglas]

229. yeah, you do.

[LostinVA]

183. RCMP spokesman calls passengers' behavior "brave" and "extraordinary"

[iverglas]

230. and watching that interview

he was at a loss for words before he came up with "extraordinary". Which is just what it was.

[and-justice-for-all]

187. You have to be one fucked up person to do things like this...nt

[Truth4Justice]

196. I wonder if it's possible that some sort of drug, like PCP, could elicit the same effects as this ?

[slackmaster]

210. You should have seen what my ex-wife was capable of doing on Prozac

I'll bet there was some kind of drug issue here - Either the perp was taking some kind of psychiatric drugs or failing to take them.

[TaffyMoon]

201. Yeah, someone called for a Knife Registry

Like a psycho would register a knife - anyway, do I really need to take my 3 steak knives down the cops and register them?

[Bragi]

208. Actually, no-one called for a knife registry...

At least no-one in the opposition has called for such a registry. It looks instead like the Conservative government was just trying to make political hay out of this tragedy.

See http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/08/01/btc-names-please/

- B

[carlyhippy]

202. that is one sick individual

That poor kid, don't they search luggage and stuff on the bus, like on airplanes? If not, they need to obviously.

[FedUpWithIt All]

203. Cannibalism was involved.

"He cut (the victim's) head off and then walked up to the door holding it and just looked at them crazy-like and then dropped the head and walked back to the body and started cutting it some more," Olmstead told CTV News from outside a hotel in Brandon, Man., where he and other passengers were taken.

The man was left alone with the body and witnesses say that he performed further indignities to the victim.

"We have word from people on the scene . . . that when the killer was alone with the body . . . that there may have been some small acts of cannibalism on the body," Oliver said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080731/Manitoba_bus_080731/20080731?hub=TopStoriesl

[Lars39]

204. Small acts of cannibalism on the body!

Is this like being "a little bit pregnant"? :wtf: :puke:

[supernova]

206. Blech!!!

:puke:

Just when you think this story couldn't get any more horrifying.

:puke: again and :scared:

[skoalyman]

217. Oh I know a horror writer couldn't came up with something as evil as this

guy was beyond sick in the head:puke:

[Kool Kitty]

264. My thoughts exactly.

[JBoy]

211. I guess when you're nuts you may as well be completely nuts. n/t

[AngryAmish]

212. Why do I avoid the bus? Because the crazy people are there.

[skoalyman]

216. No wonder I said to myself years ago I would never ride a greyhound bus again

:wow: :scared:

[Truth4Justice]

262. This is a reason Americans hate public transportation. Lack of safety/respect from fellow travelers.

[uppityperson]

218. Update, killer ID'd, charged with second degree murder, articles/link...

http://winnipegsun.com/News/Manitoba/2008/08/01/6328131.html
RCMP have identified a 40-year-old Edmonton man accused of repeatedly stabbing and then beheading 22-year-old Winnipegger Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus in southern Manitoba on Wednesday night.

RCMP said Vince Weiguang Li is charged with second-degree murder. He is scheduled to appear in court in Portage la Prairie today.

McLean's friends have identified him as the victim of Wednesday's shocking and horrific attack, which occurred around 8:30 p.m. while the eastbound bus was 20 km west of Portage on the Trans-Canada Highway. The driver immediately pulled to the side of the highway and everyone but the suspect and McLean scrambled off. RCMP arrested a man without incident during a standoff at 1:30 a.m. Thursday.

Police have not yet said what the motive was. Witnesses said it appears it was a random attack....(more)


http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ge2d8fXhplJTdGvIh1l27PcWN8Cg
The man accused in the beheading of a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in Manitoba has made his first court appearance.

Vince Weiguang Li, 40, of Edmonton walked into a courtroom in Portage la Prairie, Man., with his head bowed and uttering not a word.

He would not even reply when the judge asked him if he was going to get a lawyer, and only nodded slightly when asked whether he was exercising his right not to speak.

The Crown asked for a psychiatric assessment, but the judge said he wanted to give Li a chance to talk to a lawyer about that.

[ohio2007]

236. He was chopping the guy up with scissors and was eating him when the cops arrived.

scanner report from cops;
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=096_1217580722



http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/?src=&size=298x225

[uppityperson]

240. ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

I try to be open minded and all, but, just, ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[NoodleyAppendage]

250. Paranoid and Psychotic. Bad combo. I suspect the victim was thought to be a "demon." n/t

J

[Haole Girl]

253. What a strange story

And I have to hear, in my job (practically every day), how dangerous flying is! :crazy:

[Tektonik]

255. Crazy story

:crazy:

What's scary is the crazy responses in this thread.

Should I go out right fucking now and buy a gun? :shrug:

:P

[JonLP24]

258. Holy Shit

That is horrible. My wishes to the family and friends.

[BlooInBloo]

260. Holy crap. Poor guy.

[ohio2007]

265. Vince sold newspapers and worked at a MacDonalds in Edmonton

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=594_1217746562

Seems a lot of house cleaning has made this story almost disappear. :eyes:

[wordpix]

268. 2nd degree murder for a beheading b/c it wasn't premeditated or planned?

What a fucked-up society

[Posteritatis]

270. "Wasn't premeditated or planned" is the definition of 2nd degree murder

You don't upgrade it just because someone really kills someone as opposed to conventionally killing them, or because it's an event that plays well on the news.

[kitty1]

266. According to today's Winnipeg Free Press, Li had a hist of mental....

illness going back. A family friend described him as a lost soul. Like he was searching for something.
Apparently in China,mental illness is looked down upon as something to be ashamed of, so he never did get the necessary help he need.
He was alway paranoid. Thinking people were out to get him. He likely was paranoid schizophenic sources say.
On the surface though he seemed normal in most ways.
He and his wife were involved in the church here in Winnipeg.
He left his wife 2 years ago and headed to Edmonton. His marriage had suffered because of his constant erratic behaviour. He would take bus rides to different places on the spur of the moment for example.
He had worked as a forklift operator while in Winnipeg, and volunteered at the church as a custodian.
He is due for a psychological evaluation on Tuesday.

[wordpix]

269. a lot of health insurance does not pay for mental health services---if he had health insurance

In the US I know a family struggling with a son's mental illness. Now the son is 18, he gets adult treatment. That basically means he gets almost nothing, b/c the family cannot afford private therapy or rehab.

[TankLV]

271. "I lost my heart...err...head...in San Fran...err...on a bus to Edmonton"...

ta dum ded dum...

come on - let's all sing along now...