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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:36 PM
Original message
Mass. woman kills self before home foreclosure
Source: Associated Press

Taunton, Mass. (AP) -- A 53-year-old wife and mother fatally shot herself shortly after faxing a letter to her mortgage company saying that by the time they foreclosed on her house that day, she would be dead.

Police said that Carlene Balderrama used her husband's high-powered rifle to kill herself Tuesday afternoon, shortly after faxing the letter at 2:30 p.m.

The mortgage company called police, who found Balderrama's body at 3:30 p.m. The auction was scheduled to start at 5 p.m. and interested buyers arrived at the property in Taunton, about 35 miles south of Boston, while Balderrama's body was still inside, according to Taunton police chief Raymond O'Berg.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/0...
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Remember when farmers were killing themselves when
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 06:39 PM by madaboutharry
they were losing their farms back in the 80's? It is so tragic.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Jesus...
O'Berg also said a suicide note found next to Balderrama told her husband, John, and 24-year-old son to "take the (life) insurance money and pay for the house."

:wow:
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Did she not read her life insurance policy before pulling the trigger?
:(
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kas125 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. The suicide clause on most life insurance policies is
two years. So, most likely, if the policy has been in force for longer than two years, the family will get the insurance money.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I'm speechless.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sadly, I think this is going to happen more and more often
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. My friend almost 20 days ago did the same thing.....
It is happening more and more, people just aren't hearing about it. It's hard not to take every single thing our "leaders" do very, very personally since my friend decided to take this route. She told no one what kind of trouble she was in -- lots of people would have helped however they could. I'll never pretend to really understand her thinking, but I know that it's happening more than people know.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. I am so very sorry *hugs*
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
77. me too sadly.
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Juneboarder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is really sad...
Something needs to happen with the housing and our economy before things get much worse!
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe she killed the wrong person
Just sayin'
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. You got that right.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Maybe you should wait until all the facts are in before you assign blame
Here are a couple of twists for you:

...Its a tragedy, (Taunton Police Chief Raymond) OBerg said as he stood in front of the two-story, brown-shingled house. The financial stress must have been too much.
OBerg said he understood that the womans husband had no idea the house was about to be auctioned.
She handled all the bills, the chief said.

OBerg also said he had been told that Balderrama had asked the mortgage company for an extension and been granted one, but he couldnt explain why interested buyers showed up at the property expecting an auction while Balderramas body was still inside....


http://www.enterprisenews.com/homepage/x2043514723/Poli...

I think there is a lot more to the story. As others have noted, most people don't commit suicide over a foreclosure.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Maybe she's not "most people"
Most people don't commit suicide . . . period.

Losing your home is a pretty traumatic experience.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. Depression is IMO the most likely explanation
You can bank on it.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #42
74. I think you're probably right
But maybe her adverse economic situation helped to cause the depression.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. Maybe she saw it as the only way to salvage her honor?
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. Wonder if the Sheriff was accepting bids
With the "Stiff" still inside?
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
79. Something is dead up the creek if her husband didn't know any of this was going on.

I think there is a lot more to the story.

I sympathize with this woman and her family. People who don't know shit about clinical depression say she was selfish or whatever. They don't know what they're talking about. Sometimes a person with clinical depression just wants to end the pain, and that's all they can think of.


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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. How selfish this woman was...
How could she do this to her family??

Suicide is not an option when facing financial calamities.

I morn her passing but feel strongly she made a horrible and selfish mistake.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Oy vey. nt
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 07:00 PM by valerief
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Who the fuck are you to say that "Suicide is not an option when facing financial calamities"??!!
:wtf:

How about some fucking sympathy?

And it's "mourn", not "morn", for future reference.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Suicide shouldn't be the option for financial calamities. It's only money.
Sure it's emotionally involved money, but really, it's not worth killing herself over.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Our society values money over life, so it's actually a pretty rational option.
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Yeah, I'd rather be homeless and destitute than comfortably dead...
:eyes:
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. You have real issues
You should see a therapist or something
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. "You should see a therapist or something"
Why? Because I feel that death is preferable to homelessness and/or crippling debt in many instances?

Look, I'm sorry if you feel betrayed by some person close to you who killed themselves, but you need to get off your fucking high-and-mighty "Suicide is ALWAYS WRONG. ALWAYS!!1!1!" trip, m'kay?

You are not the arbiter of right and wrong, champ, nor what "is or isn't an option". Get used to it.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Your cowardace in the face of adversity is inspiring
If life gets a little hard just quit eh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #60
65. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
108. Some people don't like to be homeless and starving

I guess you've never had money problems.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
54. Suicide is not a fucking option!
WTF is wrong with you? It solves nothing and destroys families.
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. "Suicide is not a fucking option!"
Thanks for making a moral judgment for anyone and everyone.

Suicide is ALWAYS an option, and sometimes, it's a damn good one.

I suppose you'd rather see a hopeless person be forced to suffer intolerably just so they don't offend your delicate sensibilities by deciding to end their life at a time of their choosing...

:eyes:
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Leeny Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #58
70. thank you
i hate to see it too, but I believe strongly in the right to die. yes, there are consequences for those who are left behind, horrible consequences. but whether someone chooses suicide out of suffering, depression, or just because they've had a good life, they're tired, in bad health, they've no one left to care for, then either way it's their choice.

call me crazy
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lse7581011 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #58
76. I Agree With You!
There are worse things in life than dying!
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Leeny Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #54
69.  it sure as hell solved HER problem
it must be nice to be so certain and righteous
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. how did it solve her problem?
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Leeny Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #72
107. Let me rephrase
it solved the problem for her. not it's their problem. I'm not being heartless, don't misunderstand. I think my first reply was a bit rude and somewhat sarcastic. I'm sorry she got to the point where she thought that was her only option. And I feel for her family. But for her, it's over. May she rest in peace?
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #24
61. why do you assume I don't have sympathy?
Just because it's not stated clearly enough for you does not mean it does not exist.

Right now my sympathies are with the family she left behind, to deal alone with the unimaginable tragedy of her death and the financial calamity.
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. Well, let us see...
Edited on Thu Jul-24-08 01:39 AM by skypuddle
"Suicide is not an option when facing financial calamities."

Who the fuck made you the end-all say-all of when suicide is or is not appropriate?

So do tell, Mighty Kreskin, when is suicide "an option"?

:shrug:

I'll be waiting with baited breath, I assure you.
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #61
67. You obviously don't have a lick of sympathy if you call this poor woman selfish.
And you can fuck right off for intimating otherwise.

"...my sympathies are with the family she left behind..."

And obviously not with her, since you were so quick to callously judge her motives and mental condition.

People like you make me wish that death by callousness and/or stupidity was a possibility...

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raebrek Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #67
75. I think she irresponsibly left them behind to fend for themselves. n/t
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Shoelace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #61
111. just maybe her family didn't care or she doesn't have one?
in which case, I'd say that she may have felt so alone, so desperate that the only way out of an impossible situation was to go on to the next plane of existence.

Depending on one's belief system, death by choice is a viable option though many religions certainly forbid it.

We will never know what was in her life, her heart, soul. Let's send her a prayer and a good thought that she goes to a better place.

At least she gave us all here a moment to consider the options, and their consequences.
Heck, I know some folks who wish their loved ones would do just that and relieve them of the burden. Horrid thought I know but it's very real now in this materialistic world, esp. in the US where family ties are cut and fried like so much fast food!
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
49. What an assinine thing to say. People with depression are in pain.
And making them feel guilty ain't exactly therapy. Moran.
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #49
62. See and I thought I was being high minded..
re: What an assinine thing to say.

A: We can agree to disagree on that. However seeing as how I did not take the time to express my entire range of emotions and reactions to the story, I can see why you might think me heartless. I am guilty of not being thoughtful enough, and I should have taken more time and care in preparing my post.


Re: People with depression are in pain.

A: Thanks for the lesson in the obvious. I could not agree more with your statement.

HOWEVER... the article make no mention of the word "depression" or even "depressed". A harder hearted person might suggest you are projecting.



Re: And making them feel guilty ain't exactly therapy. Moran.

A: The woman is dead. How can I possibly make her feel guilty? If you are suggesting that I am making readers of this post feel guilty if they are depressed or facing financial calamity than I have to say you are making too big a stretch of my remarks.


Re: Moran

A: Good One! Now I'm depressed ;)
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
52. You know absolutely NOTHING about severe depression
I doubt that the foreclosure alone made her do this. Probably everything leading up to it pushed her over the edge. Depression is an illness, and it's often a fatal one. NO ONE WANTS to die, but sometimes living can be far too painful and overwhelming for those suffering from severe depression. Never judge another's pain.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Suicide is not the solution
It doesnt solve anything and more times than not makes matters worse for the persons family and friends.
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #52
63. The story dose not mention Depression.
re: You know absolutely NOTHING about severe depression

A: That's a big leap for you to make.

Even though the story dose not mention Depression, I realize it would be ridiculous and and heartless for me to suggest she was not suffering from some form of depression. Clearly she must have been.

The fact she had been hiding the reality of her failing to pay the mortgage for FORTY TWO months really jumped off the page at me. I call that DENIAL not depression. But how could I possibly know right?

I am/was clearly guilty of being insensitive here and that's not a good thing. In the future I will be more careful.

That said, I still think she should have put her family above her personal concerns and issues. Maybe she couldn't. I fear there are many more like her out there.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
53. Selfish? More like Selfless.
She got rid of herself. That's less self. Self-less.
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #53
64. say what?
TOMBSTONE for Lester More:

Here Lies Lester More
Shot Four Times with a 44
No Less, No More
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
57. Horrible and selfish?
Pot, meet kettle. :eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Woman Valued Her Family Over Herself
But what kind of family would be happy with that sort of trade-off? None of them, I think.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Depression may have prevented her from understanding that
:shrug:
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. No material possession should ever mean that much
I know that things can be overwhelming but I'm sure her family would much rather have her than a house.
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Doug.Goodall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. Remember when real Democrats advanced the cause of gun control
Then George Bush #43 got into office, stacked the Supreme Court on the right and people are using guns to kill themselves.

The most important thing we can do is vote for Obama and prevent anymore right wing Justices being appointed to the courts.

The Heller ruling was wrong, it was forced upon us by the right wing, and unfortunately it is permanent.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Doug.Goodall, you gotta be kidding.
I hope.
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Doug.Goodall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I hate guns, and I am in favor of gun control
When right wing Presidents get to pick our Supreme Court, the give us right wing rulings.

What is done is done, the Supremes ruled that guns are an individual right. Now we get to watch in horror as more and more guns are used to kill people.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Gun ownership was already viewed as an individual right by most states
DC was a rare exception. I do not expect there to be any measurable change in violent crime rates as a result of the Heller decision.

You have the right not to own a gun. Please do so as long as you wish, and respect the rights of others to make their own decisions.
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Doug.Goodall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. A few more privately owned guns, a few more deaths from guns, it is all lost in the noise
I am not real keen on someone with a gun committing suicide and deciding to take a few people with them (like me for instance).

The Heller decision makes it quite a bit more difficult to prevent people who really don't need a gun from buying one. Ready availability of guns makes it easy to commit suicide and guns are about to become even more readily available.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Needs vs. rights will always be arguable
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 09:37 PM by slackmaster
The DC law that got overturned prevented people who needed guns from buying them too. I believe in letting people decide for themselves what they should or should not do.
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f the letter Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. Suicide predates guns.
By quite a bit. Shit, suicide predates bronze. Are you kidding? This is not a gun control issue.
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Doug.Goodall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Ready availability of guns makes it easy to commit suicide
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #33
110. If that were the case, the U.S. would have a higher suicide rate than gun-banning nations
like the UK. On the contrary, the UK's suicide rate, as well as that of Canada, Japan, and most of Europe, is higher than ours.
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OKthatsIT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
51. Come on...if they want to kill themselves all they have to do
is get on the highway and run into an underpass bridge or drive their car off a cliff. And collect the insurance, no contest.

Guns are not an issue.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. What?
You don't think she would've killed herself some other way if a gun was not available? I drive around in a vehicle daily that could be used either as a weapon or a means of suicide, but I don't see anybody wanting to outlaw those.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
37. She could as easily have swallowed antifreeze or hung herself with a belt
The gun was merely inciodental, and only increased the probability of success over other methods.

Tucker
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
45. if someone wants to kill themselves badly enough, they'll find a way
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Quite so, and the ones who have really made up their minds to go through with it
Never tell anyone in advance, so nobody can stop them.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
109. The U.S. suicide rate is lower than that of the UK, Canada, and Japan...
DESPITE our inequities in access to mental health care, millions without substantive health coverage, income disparities, and the fact that we work the longest hours with the least time off of any First World nation, including Japan.

BTW, the gun ban crusade of the DLC and the repubs at the Brady Campaign (not "true progressives") was responsible for monkeywrenching the entire progressive agenda 1994-2006, handed the House and Senate to the repubs on a silver platter in '94, and was a major factor in Gore's loss to W in '00 (Gore lost his own home state, plus WV, on the gun issue, and it was in play in many other states including mine).

Half of U.S. gun owners are Dems and indies. We are keeping them. You and the repubs at the Brady Campaign may not like that choice, and you are free to choose not to own them yourself, but please stay out of our gun safes, thanks.


----------------------
Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)

The Conservative Roots of U.S. Gun Control
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Sad, she could have just walked away...
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 07:29 PM by SahaleArm
No need to go through foreclosure - the loan contract is a business dealing and people all over California are just saving their money and walking away from their homes.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Selling short is usually a better idea than walking away from a mortgage debt
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 07:31 PM by slackmaster
The effects on your credit rating are a lot less drastic.

Late payments stay on your credit reports for just two years. A charge-off stays on for seven years, and the closed account stays on for 10 (so the fact that you failed to make payments on time is still accessible for that long).
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Only if the bank plays ball...
If they don't save your money, rent, and then walk away. In CA the 1st lender gets the house and that's it.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. In CA foreclosed properties are sold at auction
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 07:44 PM by slackmaster
Lenders who have a security interest in the property get paid in order of seniority - First trust deed first, second TD second, etc. until the sales proceeds are exhausted. A bank or other financial institution has to get in line with everyone else for a chance to buy the property if they want it (which they usually don't). If nobody shows up, the bank takes ownership and writes off a loss, then eventually sells the property.

If you sell before the home is foreclosed, you do the same thing - Pay off the first TD first, etc.

If you can't satisfy all of the debts, you either work out a repayment agreement or file Chapter 13 bankruptcy. That is no worse for your credit than a charged-off mortgage or two.

BTW - Landlords usually run credit checks on prospective renters. A big charge-off may make it harder for a person to qualify to rent.
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
68. I think that's what I said...
1st Loan gets first dibs on a foreclosure sale. In many cases the house will sell for less than the 1st loan balance so the 2nd loan (lender) is SOL. You can't agree to sell for less than the loan amount unless all the lien holders are satisfied. You can't sell it then ask the lender for a repayment plan.

Many people are renting before their credit gets whacked so the credit issue is a minor one. Banks are so backed up it takes 180+ days to get the NOD in place and proceed with foreclosure. Many owners are stopping payments and saving up their money for a rental. If you give a landlord a big chunk of cash up front they won't so no to you.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #68
84. Nothing in my note says I can't sell my house for whatever amount I want at any time
Edited on Thu Jul-24-08 10:40 AM by slackmaster
Or transfer it to someone else for nothing. Here's what my actual Deed of Trust says:

"...If all or any part of the Property or any Interest in the Property is sold or transferred... ...without Lender's prior written consent, Lender may require immediate payment in full of all sums secured by this Security Instrument...."

It goes on to say how the Lender is to go about demanding accelerated payment. It basically says they have to give no less than 30 days for the borrower to pay up.

You can't agree to sell for less than the loan amount unless all the lien holders are satisfied. You can't sell it then ask the lender for a repayment plan.

Yes I can. I do not need the lender's prior permission to sell my house short, and if I manage to pay off the balance owed on the loan within 30 days there is nothing they can do about it. If I can't pay it off in full, the lender doesn't have to agree to a repayment plan unless I file Chapter 13. If I don't pay and don't file for bankruptcy they can sue me and will get a summary judgement for sure, but they cannot prevent me from selling short if I choose to go that route.
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #84
98. There are buyer liabilities for purchasing a home with a unreleased lien...
I suppose a Quit Claim Deed can be sold without bank permission; of course you need a buyer willing to do the transaction. The buyer's lender will require a clear title and title insurance so unless it's a cash deal (no lender) there are issues.

BTW if the bank does agree to a short sale you still owe taxes on the loan-sale difference; the lender will send you a 1099.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Actually, you can't....
quick claim deed a property over to another party and remove yourself from the deed. You'll hit the "due on sale" clause and your lender will require payment in full.
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. If you can't pay off your mortgage upon sale, does that prevent title transfer?
Or does the lien transfer to the new buyer's title? Or does the bank go after your personal assets? In many states it's best to just hand back the deed in lieu.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Yes
Unless you have a short sale pre-approved which is not too difficult these days. Many states don't allow a mortgage servicer from going after a borrower. Some states do allow the IRS to come after you for the written off loss. I believe that is changing with the new bill though.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #99
104. I never said that selling or QCing the property short relieves you of the debt
:hi:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kick !!!
:kick:

:cry:
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skoalyman Donating Member (751 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Nothin to see here folks just a dead body
say have you seen the master bath :sarcasm:




just more piss down economics
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. God. When will this madness end?
I can't wait until we go into pro-active mode and start helping these people.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. It is sad
Gun control won't stop people from taking their lives that wish to do so. You can off yourself quickly and painlessly in around 5 minutes legally without a mess.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
32. My first month at my job was spent in the foreclosure department.
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 08:09 PM by YellowRubberDuckie
I got a call from a woman threatening to kill herself if we didn't give her back her home. I apologized and told her it sold third party...TWO YEARS AGO. It really shook me up.
I'm hardened against this crap now, but I still get crazy calls like this.
Edited to add: Most of the time this crap is to work our emotions. This is sad that she went through with it, but honestly, it's not the mortgage company's fault. (I say this coming from a mortgage company whose policy is loss mit before ever going into foreclosure)
Duckie
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. It is the "fault" of a crap economy and a hopeless world
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bikebloke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
46. The materialist/consumerist society
I had a friend who thought she hit the top - a house with a swimming pool. Then she got divorced and had to give up the house. She didn't suicide or fall into depression, but was down over it. In the culture of possessions, people lose site of what really matters.

So now there are multitudes who grabbed for the materialist dream house with the reckoning now knocking on the door.

Thank goodness the junta is saving the financial CEO's. :sarcasm:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
47. People have to understand this will happen more and more
There are people who never saw their lives crashing simililar to the Pre-Depression in the 1920's... and now that it's happening....people are scared and overwhelmed....this is sad but this is only the beginning.
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darkrenegade Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #47
82. There will be many tens of thousands of these as time goes on. nt
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #82
97. I really don't think so, not THESE kinds of problems
I'm going to take a wild stab here and say that sometime before next Friday, we'll find out she was addicted to either a substance (licit or illicit, no matter; I don't think it's alcohol because someone who manages to drink up the mortgage payment every month smells like they do) or to gambling, and Faux News will be covered with shows about the evils of that particular addiction.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
71. "He had no idea she hadn't paid the mortgage in 42 months."

There's more to this than being distraught over a foreclosure.

Not paying the mortgage for 42 months is not some kind of manifestation of the current mortgage problems.

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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. That's one of the things that bothered me about her "suicide".
Edited on Thu Jul-24-08 07:35 AM by fasttense
The husband didn't know for 42 months? That's 3 1/2 years. He filed for chapter 13 bankruptcy 3 times up until 2006. Where did he think the money suddenly came from? If he didn't know, it was because he didn't want to know. He filed for chapter 13 (and was dismissed by the courts) in 2006, she stopped paying on the mortgage the beginning of 2005. Something smells fishy here.
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #71
83. My BIL didn't know the bank was about to foreclose
until his neighbor at the bank called him.

His wife had a gambling problem, and was foregoing mortgage payments so she could use the money to play catch-up with her losses. She hid the notices and bank correspondence from him.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #83
103. Heh... sounds like my story....

You know why they call it the "Discover" card?

Because one day you come home early from work and pick up the mail. In the mail, you "discover" there is a card in your name, you "discover" that it is charged over the limit, and you "discover" that it hasn't been paid in three months.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #71
86. It's unlikely they had not already gotten some forebearance from the lender
I don't know about MA law, but in most states a house can go to foreclosure auction in 180 days or less after the due date of the first payment you miss.

42 months is a LONG time to not have your loan current.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. In MA.....
Its about 115 days.
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daggahead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
78. So tragic ...
I just hope we don't see a trend of this coming.

My wife & I were lucky to get out of our sub-prime rate mortgage last year. Some good friends of ours are stuck in theirs, owing more than their house was appraised. I doubt they're the only ones in my neighborhood ...


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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
81. I wonder....
According to the article, the husband had no idea she hadn't paid the mortgage in 42 months.

Something's really strange here...where did all the mortgage money go?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #81
87. She was probably a "slow-pay" account
Paying what she could, but not enough to keep the payments current.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. She had not paid in 42 months. He husband didn't know.
It is more likely she had some sort of addiction and when she could no longer hide it from her family she paniced killed herself.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
85. Chapter 13 three times?
That means that the courts most likely had him on a tailored payment plan 3 separate times. It also indicates that he had disposable income which is a requisite for Ch 13. Probably a lot of their debt was discharged with each filing as well. There is something very fishy here.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
88. Hopefully, all the people at her lender will have the good sense to shoot themselves too.

For shame.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. Umm the lender did nothing wrong here
She hadn't paid in 42 months. There was obviously something else going on. Some sort of addiction or mental illness. When she could no longer hide the lost money from her family because the auction people were coming she killed herself.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. Also....
They filed Ch 13 3 times. That means that there was money coming in. Ch 7 would have made much more sense if they were broke. I think you are right about some sort of addiction.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
91. wow
Man o man... wasn't there something like this in 'Maxed Out'?

Not gonna chime in on that 'suicide morality' debate, cause it's pointless...

But seems like if I was going to off myself, I'd go get a camera crew and march to the lender's office to do it - so at least my death would have maximum political impact...

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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. Except that this had nothing to do with the MTG company.
They tried for 3 1/2 years.

There is obviously some form of addiction at play here and she couldn't face her family when the auction people were coming and she couldn't hide it anymore.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
95. Another "whiner" for Phil Gramm.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
96. regardless... it's very traumatic to lose your house
my grandparents lost their house in the Great Depression... there was 77% unemployment in Pawtucket RI. The mills were closing up shop in RI and going down South for guess what, cheap labor! (Sounds familiar, anyone). My grandfather was blinded in an industrial accident and they operated on the wrong eye so he was totally blinded. My grandmother had a nervous breakdown and ended up in the state mental institution for many years, until her kids got old enough to support her. Kids went into state foster care.

This kind of loss hits at your very primal sense of safety. I feel for the woman.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
102. A bit overboard ya think?
It's not worth it.

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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. It wasn't about losing the house....

Notice the "husband didn't know the mortgage was overdue" part of the story. There was a larger personal issue here.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Yes, a much larger and probably complex personal and family issue
But it's always fun to blame an isolated, bizarre incident on the government.
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