Obama: NAFTA not so bad after all

[robcon]

Source: Fortune Magazine

In an interview with Fortune to be featured in the magazine's upcoming issue, the presumptive Democratic nominee backed off his harshest attacks on the free trade agreement and indicated he didn't want to unilaterally reopen negotiations on NAFTA.

"Sometimes during campaigns the rhetoric gets overheated and amplified," he conceded, after I reminded him that he had called NAFTA "devastating" and "a big mistake," despite nonpartisan studies concluding that the trade zone has had a mild, positive effect on the U.S. economy.

Does that mean his rhetoric was overheated and amplified? "Politicians are always guilty of that, and I don't exempt myself," he answered.

Obama says he believes in "opening up a dialogue" with trading partners Canada and Mexico "and figuring to how we can make this work for all people."

Read more: http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazines/fortune/easto... /

---

It's sad, but perhaps expected, that politicians make outlandish comments about NAFTA during the Ohio primary to appeal to the meaner side of the electorate. I think it's a little disappointing since the candidate has to withdraw those statements once the nomination is settled.

NAFTA is one of the greatest accomplishments of the Clinton Administration, and I think Obama knows that, too. The rhetoric during the Ohio primary between Clinton and Obama about reopening NAFTA negotiations is regrettable, IMO.

[dkf]

1. Attacking trading with Canada is lame...

I don't know in what world Canada has worse labor standards than we do.

Mexico on the other hand...

[janetblond]

5. "Bitter Asians"

LOL!
Nice bumper sticker!
:>

[ulysses]

2. "mild, positive effect"

Where?

[DiverDave]

117. Why, to the people that make money from it

of course.
GODDAMN HIM! This better be a misquote, or a ruse to get more votes from Conservatives.
NAFTA is a god damned disaster, and HE KNOWS IT.

[closeupready]

3. This is disappointing to me. But,

I suppose in talking to Fortune, he's got to strike a different tone.

[odelisk8]

23. HA!

Goldman Sachs $571,330
University of California $437,236
UBS AG $364,806
JPMorgan Chase & Co $362,207
Citigroup Inc $358,054
National Amusements Inc $320,750
Lehman Brothers $318,647
Google Inc $309,514
Harvard University $309,025
Sidley Austin LLP $294,245
Skadden, Arps et al $270,013
Time Warner $262,677
Morgan Stanley $259,876
Jones Day $250,725
Exelon Corp $236,211
University of Chicago $218,857
Wilmerhale LLP $218,680
Latham & Watkins $218,615
Microsoft Corp $209,242
Stanford University $195,262


Obama's TOP donors...he's not going to change ANYTHING!

[closeupready]

24. Where did you get those numbers, I'm curious?

n/t

[plasticsundance]

32. Opensecrets.org

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=200...

[depakid]

118. It's hard for many to accept

People want to hope and so ignore (rather than critically think about) the candidates behaviors and actions on record- their public statements and policy proposals.

Perhaps that bodes well for Obama, whose record has proven to be little more than go along to get along with the beltway status quo.

May well get him elected- maybe, though one suspects if he gets the job, he might wish he'd studied a bit more econ than poly sci.

[acmavm]

26. Yeah, he does seem to be the 'take the money and run' kinda guy.

[The Doctor.]

79. There's some BS right there. Unless you mean that he's running for president.

You probably shouldn't, but here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Good luck with that silly attitude of yours.

[ryanmuegge]

98. I'm curious as to how you define "moderates." These Chicago School economists are far from

"moderates." I say this based on numerous public opinion polls regarding economic issues. The public does vote in elections, don't they? Or, are elections pre-determined by elites in this country now? It's getting hard to tell.

A VAST, VAST majority of the American public VEHEMENTLY oppose NAFTA and neo-liberal economic policies.

[The Doctor.]

107. She called the Democratic Presidential Candidate a "Take the money and run" guy

In obvious ignorance of the fact that he's taken less of his campaign money from corporations, and an overwhelming majority from the people when compared to any of the other candidates.

Unless she's saying he's a "take the money and run {for office} kind of guy", then I'm saying she has no fucking clue what she's saying.

What is he doing with the money?
What is she trying to insinuate with the statement; "he does seem to be the 'take the money and run' kinda guy."?
And what does your question have to do with any of that?

If you want to have a discussion about something else, then be more specific in your questions. Like who, specifically are you talking about? Obama? His economic advisors? Who? In what regard?

[Runcible Spoon]

108. you admitted to being a lifelong registered REpublican. you STILL ARE ONE by your OWN ADMISSION

you think one vote for Obama is going to erase all of what you've smeared across this thread?

Jesus.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

*edited to provide link to evidence

[The Doctor.]

111. Wow... you're completely unhinged.

I seriously can't wipe the smile off my face from watching your hysterical reaction. I'll bet the alert GUI on the lower left of my post is starting to fade, isn't it?

Look buddy; 1) I've never made a secret of being one of the millions of disaffected Republicans that chose to live in reality rather than buy the party line just because we wear the tag. 2) I've been voting Democrat for a long time now, so take that ignorant shit about 'one vote for Obama' and shove it. 3) What have I "smeared" across this thread? Nothing.

If you'd bothered to read the links you posted, you'd see that I'm perfectly legit, but you're just an outrage junkie, I know.

Well, that's fine, go apoplectic and see if I care. Meanwhile I'm perfectly comfortable here with so many wonderful people, mostly Dems obviously, that I share a great deal of mutual respect and affection. I appreciate thoughtful, rational people in settings like these.

You are obviously not one of them.

Now go wear out the 'alert' GUI on this one too.

Cheers!

[ryanmuegge]

126. You honestly think that the Chicago School economists who advise Obama are

representative of mainstream American public opinion on economic issues?

You said that he (Obama) has to appeal to "moderates" in order to win. How is having a bunch of market fundamentalist academics reaching out to the moderates? These people (the Chicago School economists who serve as Obama's advisors) are likely extremists relative to the aggregate in terms of public opinion. Very few people in this country have a Ph.D in economics. The Chicago School economists that Naomi Klein describes represent an extremist minority. They are by no means moderates.

[Bandit]

120. Do you any proof to your assertions?

I believe most all Republicans are in favor of NAFTA and GATT and a majority of Independents as well. Only the very left seem "VEHEMENTLY" opposed to it..I bet you like buying cheaper auto parts and other goods. People seem to have no idea what the cost of goods would be if everything was made in America with Davis Bacon wages...For people that have seen their buying power deminish over the last several decades NAFTA and GATT appear to be a very good thing.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherina]

70. Get off it. Those are individual donations. Is all your research this bizarre? n/t

[SergeyDovlatov]

85. Sure they are. cui bono.

Here are the top contributors for another candidate. Notice, bankers and lawyers are nowhere to be found.

US Army $72,386
Google Inc $55,301
US Air Force $54,267
US Navy $51,052
Microsoft Corp $48,477
US Postal Service $27,118
Lockheed Martin $23,012
Boeing Co $21,884
Cisco Systems $19,439
Verizon Communications $19,345
Hewlett-Packard $18,517
AT&T Inc $18,063
General Dynamics $17,853
Northrop Grumman $16,707
Apple Inc $15,603
IBM Corp $15,403
Intel Corp $15,146
Raytheon Co $15,129
General Electric $14,098
US Dept of Defense $13,221

Hint: This candidate promises immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afganistan. You can see that people who benefit from this believe him.

[Patchuli]

71. Betcha he does..!.nt

[Wabbajack_]

33. Nonsense

[marshall]

130. He's not courting us anymore, he's after the moderate conservative

It happens in every election.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. and figuring to how we can make this work for all people

I'm for that too. Aren't you? The devil is in the details, but make(ing) this work for all people is the right idea.

[sam sarrha]

10. "ALL THE PEOPLE" in the richest 1.5%...that is, screw the people make'n $4.50 a day and have to pay

the foreman half that to keep their job.. after all rent is cheap at the city dump

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2003/10/1... /
snip"...At 16, Ruiz settled with his family at the edge of the low-income community of Colonia Chilpancingo in Tijuana, about a mile from the border. After assembling a home from wood and cardboard scraps, the Ruiz family found work at the factories. Soon the area was solid with shacks as Mexico's poor and jobless arrived seeking work.

Locals named the shantytown Nueva Esperanza, or New Hope, a nod to the better life they hoped the steady factory work would deliver.

But these days, as workers stir at dawn to climb the rocky hill that leads to the plants, the Nueva Esperanza name rings hollow. Many here have yet to see their living conditions improve -- their neighborhood still has no running water, and electricity is rigged and spotty. Flowerpots placed at doorways are the only elegance. And their main hope is that they will not return from work with a pink slip..."snip

this is what we are facing now.. NAFTA has not cerated 1 net job in the usa. 1994- 2007 ...3,600,000 industrial jobs were lost, the poor in mexico were/are screwed, more poor were created, ~31% of mexico live below THEIR poverty level,.

[nodehopper]

11. people will excuse anything he says!

all politicians will SAY stuff like making it work for all people. If he is our candidate, we should start holding him accountable for this stuff. I am so tired of people defending him about stuff that they would jump all over if McCAin said it. If McCain said "nafta is not so bad" there would be a thread here all about how it's terrible for US businesses and ethically bad etc.

[Zorra]

21. Tuna and Top Ramen ain't so bad, if you're really, really hungry...tastes like shit,

but you can live on it.

[nodehopper]

29. I honestly can't figure out

if you meant this as a metaphor for the dismal state of two-party politics and why we keep getting saddled with candidates who are not really progressive, or if you meant this as a comment on how the poor are made more poor by NAFTA. either way, it works!

[ToeBot]

90. Except that tuna is loaded with Mercury and no you can't really live on it. nt

[redstorm20]

22. Right On

Nice job staying awake nodehopper

[superconnected]

45. Bingo, NAFTA has done a whole lot of bad, if Obama plans on fixing it

I'm all for him, but if he turns into another political hand to advance their agenda which walks over the people of every country it touches, then I will not turn a blind eye to how "EVIL" Obama will be, the way bush supporters do to bush.

Mccain has one thing going for him, and that is that he did speak against NAFTA and against jobs going over seas while the companies sold the goods back to us without their tarrifs being affected. Mccain called for higher tarrifs. He was corrected immediately by the right wing, but still, we got more out of him then Clinton(pro NAFTA) and Obama(still ambivalent on NAFTA).

I would never vote for Mccain or believe he could do anything about nafta. He'll alwasy be a pawn. Let's just not forget that Obama is someones pawn too.

NAFTA is the biggest problem the world faces. NAFTA is raping the world. Oil is second.

[earth mom]

48. Yep, the denial and excuses around here are of epic proportions. I'm SO sick of the b.s.! nt

[The Doctor.]

59. You didn't get the memo.

We knew he would start to stroll away from left-wing rhetoric.

Been paying attention to politics long?

[frickaline]

103. Totally agree. Always question everyone, this includes our nominee. n/t

[readmoreoften]

88. So let's figure out how to make this work for the billionaire and the peasant land he steals?

What is that? The billionaire gets to steal the land and gives everyone 20 bucks?

[Warren Stupidity]

91. Sheesh

no.

making trade agreements work for all people is the idea behind the fair trade movement.

[readmoreoften]

106. Well yes, but that's not trying to make a FREE trade agreement workable.

NAFTA required Mexico to overturn Article 27 of their constitution, that their indigenous people had the right to never be kicked off their crappy little subsistence plots. These are people that can afford chicken meat once every three months or so. They live off corn and what grows in the jungles. There are 28 million indigenous people in Mexico. After NAFTA the Mexican government authorized this land to be bought from the government by US Corporations. This would destroy whole communities, languages, histories of millions of people. That's why they've risen in armed rebellion. They are STILL armed and struggling against NAFTA provisions for their survival.

Fair Trade? Fine. That means going into these communities and working with them. FREE trade--the opposite--means going in and taking from them.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Careful And Probably Bogus Phrasing By The Writer

If you look closely, the author actually doesn't directly show that Obama said anything different than what he's said before - rather, the author is cleverly using words to make it seem that way.

If Obama actually had said something that indicated a changed position, the writing would have been different - more direct.

[formercia]

27. I want to see a verbatim transcript.

This word parsing by interviewers is turning into propaganda.

[OhioChick]

66. I hope you're right, Manny...

I came across this recently:

"Outsourcing to India not reversible: Obama"

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Outsourcing-to-... /

This, after listening to many of his speeches about closing tax-related "loopholes" to slow down these practices.

[Somawas]

7. Thus beginneth the corporate sellout.

[The Doctor.]

78. Oh Blah, Blah...

go here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

9. Will Obama support the North American Union and the NAFTA superhighway? Are neocons advising him?

I'm sure blue-collar voters in Pennsylvania and Ohio,critical swing states in the GE, will love his position on NAFTA.

[sam sarrha]

12. he has a milton Friedman disciple as economic adviser.. is there any doubt what's come'n..??

http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctrine-Rise-Disaster-Capi...


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/books/review/Stiglitz...
snip"..., but for Klein the larger lessons are clear: “Countries are shocked — by wars, terror attacks, coups d’état and natural disasters.” Then “they are shocked again — by corporations and politicians who exploit the fear and disorientation of this first shock to push through economic shock therapy.” People who “dare to resist” are shocked for a third time, “by police, soldiers and prison interrogators.”

In another introductory chapter, Klein offers an account of Milton Friedman — she calls him “the other doctor shock” — and his battle for the hearts and minds of Latin American economists and economies. In the 1950s, as Cameron was conducting his experiments, the Chicago School was developing the ideas that would eclipse the theories of Raul Prebisch, an advocate of what today would be called the third way, and of other economists fashionable in Latin America at the time. She quotes the Chilean economist Orlando Letelier on the “inner harmony” between the terror of the Pinochet regime and its free-market policies. Letelier said that Milton Friedman shared responsibility for the regime’s crimes, rejecting his argument that he was only offering “technical” advice. Letelier was killed in 1976 by a car bomb planted in Washington by Pinochet’s secret police. For Klein, he was another victim of the “Chicago Boys” who wanted to impose free-market capitalism on the region. “In the Southern Cone, where contemporary capitalism was born, the ‘war on terror’ was a war against all obstacles to the new order,”...snip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine

[jody]

14. Not in my opinion but that won't bother those who have cushy jobs or who have yet to worry about

such minor things as putting bread on the table.

IMO blue/gray collar workers are likely to be ignored once again by a new president, senators, and congress-critters after the votes are counted.

[lonestarnot]

34. Since I'm out of time, and don't have much

money, (LOL) who is the economic advisor that Milton Friedman indoctrinated and is now advising Obama?

[Runcible Spoon]

43. this article is a good place to start

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/14/bar...

[lonestarnot]

57. Holy fucking cow.

[Runcible Spoon]

42. watch out, that's dangerous talk around here...

I was really beginning to get excited about Obama until the real details of his economic agenda began to emerge. It is our DUTY to let him know that we, his supporters, are NOT Ok with corporate pandering and teh selling out of our economy!

What difference will his tax breaks make when nobody has a job and we have no money to buy cheap plastic Chinese crap anymore?

Economic policy is not merely one piece of a presidential platform; the implications of NAFTA have reverberated throughout every social institution of this country, and teh cracks are beginning to show...

[ThePowerofWill]

54. I found this out last week, on NPR i do believe.

Scared the shit outta me. Here i've been supporting this guy, and this choice of economic adviser made my skin crawl.

[pattmarty]

13. Remember that old movie about politicians "Back to the Center"?

[Bread and Circus]

15. "The Economy".. laugh out loud. As if it were monolithic and affected

all people the same.

Whereas it might make some national indicators look better and make some people a whole fuck of a lot richer, on a local level NAFTA has been devastating to some communities.

I just can't stand how people talk about "the economy" as if it were one big unified thing that everybody benefits from equally. The reality is that average people have had to work more, work harder, and work more efficiently for about the same pay. With the rising cost of basic things (food and energy), it becomes more and more difficult.

Just because people are doing awesome in Manhattan and every other rich nexus of power around the country doesn't mean the other 95% are doing that splendid.

[agentS]

16. You gotta read the whole article

and not just the snippet.

In the Fortune interview, Obama noted that despite his support for opening markets, "there are costs to free trade" that must be recognized. He noted that under NAFTA, a more efficient U.S. agricultural industry displaced Mexican farmers, adding to the problem of illegal immigration.

We "can't pretend that those costs aren't real," Obama added. Otherwise, he added, it feeds "the protectionist sentiment and the anti-immigration sentiment that is out there in both parties."

So we better keep our eyes on him to make sure he does what he says, and not does what the fat cats want him to do.
Nevertheless, that is the price of winning an election; you can't start one way and not expect to change/moderate after several months.
If he is no longer "change we can believe in" then in 2010 we'll make sure we replace his congressional enablers with people who won't bow to the corporate agenda.

Till then, let's see what he does with the 'ball'...

[doc03]

17. That's why in a local TV poll

yesterday McCain beat Obama 3 to 1. This area is (3-1 registered Democrat), we are just tired of politicians saying one thing and doing the opposite like Bill Clinton and Al Gore did. Bill Clinton and Al Gore were going to put protections in for US workers and the environment before he passed NAFTA. Bill Clinton and Al Gore sat here in front of the news media back in 1992 and said the hazardous waste incinerator known as WTI in East Liverpool Ohio would never open. We have been betrayed by the Democratic party time and time again.

[IsItJustMe]

92. LOL, you gotta be kidding me. So John McCain is your savior. Good luck with that one. What is in

your water there?

Sounds like the people in your area have not had enough of Bush. You may need four more years of this shit to really choke on it. Be careful, you may get what you ask for.

[Orsino]

18. Grrrr.

Yep. The joys of ubercapitalism reaffirmed.

I'm disappointed in this stance, but I knew he was no liberal.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Did he ever say that he was a liberal?

[Orsino]

25. Of course not.

Politicians who expect to succeed in America rarely dare to identify as liberals.

[pattmarty]

30. I agree. But, I am still hopeful considering his background. Remember.....

....in 2000 the "compassionate conservative" Bush? If anybody at the time (myself included) dug into his background (as of now most has come out) they would have discovered he definitely was exactly what we ended up with, a rich boy who was not very bright and viciously pro business. I am hoping the same with Obama, but the truth is you never can tell.

[Orsino]

39. I think he has some liberal sympathies...

...but the Senate agenda by which we'd judge his voting record was hopelessly neocon.

[Art_from_Ark]

82. I don't see how people can get so excited about this guy

I know, he's not bu$h, and he's not McSameAsBu$h. But he's modeling his campaign after Reagan's, he's bringing in neocon economic advisors, he's shown a lack of understanding of the last 40 years of US history, and he's done little to make himself truly stand out as an agent for real, meaningful change in his 3 years in the Senate. He's a 3rd stringer who's going to lead the team to victory.

Sorry for being so cynical. I long for the Democratic Party of the '60s, when it actually stood for something useful.

[Marie26]

65. Is neoliberal close enough? nt

[onehandle]

20. He's a Centrist. I like him a lot and you know why? He reminds me of Bill Clinton.

I liked Bill's Presidency, but sadly, he had to keep close to the center with an aggressive GOP on his ass.

Obama's Presidency will be as if Bill Clinton had no restraints.

There will be no new NAFTAs. Obama will be a left-leaning Centrist.

I'm very excited.

[pattmarty]

31. I don't agree with you on Clinton, and I'm just guessing most here feel the same.

[pegleg]

28. I find this very disturbing. Nafta has decimated the economy of this nation.

It has cost untold thousands of American jobs to be lost,and increased the deficit.

[Runcible Spoon]

46. don't forget the dissolution of environmental protectionism,

the credit-addicted spending culture it has created, the impoverishment of countless foreign economies that results in the immigration problems, the muzzling of new technologies that would cut energy expenditure for fear of disrupting the status quo, the countless DEAD, MAIMED, and SICKENED people who died in brutal warfare or just from drinking the WATER...

I guess the Pro-NAFTA people will be happy to hand over our country when China comes to collect it's debt, because they are the ones that really own our economy now...

I am so sad right now...

[knixphan]

35. how many of those so quick to go for Barack's jugular...

actually have their senators and reps on speed-dial?



If you don't get involved at the level of YOUR REP,

don't complain about the executive.

[Runcible Spoon]

47. I'm vocal about Obama because I believe he might "hear" us in time..

I also get on the asses about my state reps, but I don't post about it in LBN because they're not running for prez at the moment; when they WERE (I'm a New Yorker) I was right here talking about her economic policies too.

[Judi Lynn]

36. According to this article the majority of Democrats does NOT support NAFTA:

Obama Goes Soft on Free Trade posted by John Nichols on 06/18/2008 @ 3:23pm

~snip~
If Obama does not change his tune, he's likely to get burned in Ohio, Wisconsin and other states where primary surveys showed that the vast majority of Democratic, Republican and independent voters felt that the radically pro-corporate free trade policies of the Clinton and Bush years had harmed rather than helped America.

More:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/330911

[Runcible Spoon]

44. FUCK NAFTA

DU STOP apologizing for it! Obama, BE the change we need and deserve! PLEASE!

[underpants]

37. WOW is that a deceptive headline

[bvar22]

38. "a mild, positive effect on the U.S. economy."

For whom?

Worker productivity UP 75% since the 80s, which means fewer workers are doing MORE work.
Are the workers sharing in the profits from the increased productivity?
NO.
Wages are stagnent or declining.
The profits are being skimmed by the CEOs and the ownership class.
But overall, this is seen as a net plus in the economy.

[tidy_bowl]

40. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. nt

[fascisthunter]

41. Nice "Hit Piece" Robcon

so surprised...

[FrenchieCat]

49. Fortune Magazine? Yes. That would be a "hit" piece......meant for those

who are not informed about such matters.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yurbud]

51. who did the non-partisan study, the Heritage Foundation?

Who exactly is it helping? Not average Mexicans and Americans.

[yurbud]

52. or was it University of Chicago Economics Dept, neoliberal ground zero?

[brentspeak]

55. Wonderful.

Just wonderful.

[The Doctor.]

80. For one; He never said NAFTA 'was a good thing'. You're reading deliberate implications.

Second; Go here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[dysfunctional press]

58. wow. he's fighting hard to lose my vote.

just like the congressional dems with their fisa capitulation and war funding.

fuck them all.

in the ass.

hard.

and dry.

[alarimer]

61. I no longer identify as a Democrat

Because of all this stuff.

[The Doctor.]

62. Then find some other hobby than politics. This doesn't make him a liar.

I'm having trouble believing so many people are so fucking naïve.

Months ago, many people patiently explained that after the primary, Obama would have to run to the right some. We knew that whole bunches of people would throw up their hands, panic, squeal, scream 'I told you so!', and so on....


And here you all are.


Jeebus!

[alarimer]

99. Why should ANYONE pander to the right, just for votes?

Just for once I want to see a Democrat actually stand for the principles stated in the platform, instead of pandering to the supposed "undecideds" or independents. No, Democrats are spineless weasels. I don't give a shit about this election anymore and I will NOT vote for that corporate tool.

[The Doctor.]

114. That's ignorant.

There's not much else to say. Obama only ran because he didn't want to 'sit nice' and have a nice run in the Senate. He's running because he knew it was the only way to change anything.

Your calling him 'corporate' is just plain fucking stupid. If you just took one look at his donor base, you'd know that.

No, you're just ignorant.


Won't vote for the dem candidate? Then what the fuck good are you?

[readmoreoften]

86. Yeah, I'm pretty much done. I've been saying it. This is my last dem vote.

Since I haven't worked diligently enough for an alternative, I'll vote dem this time. I have very little hope. Some things will get a pinch better, superficially, for a bit.

[Zachstar]

73. Today has been a hard day.

The best thing we can do is contact the campaign and express our outrage over his recent comments about the lie that is NAFTA.

Also let his campaign know that until he grows a spine you will be holding your donations. We have to get tough on Obama before the republicans use the Opening to flood in support.

[The Doctor.]

75. Oh jeebus... go here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[dysfunctional press]

94. you're entitled to your opinion- but i'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evil parties.

they'll all just have to run their crooked corporate-loving schemes without my vote.

[The Doctor.]

113. The Democratic party is 'evil'?

Well, flawed, sure.

But I'm here because, right now, the Democratic party is the best chance of giving power back to the people. Period.

To not choose to support the Dem candidate is to choose the 'greater of two evils'.

Besides, if your cynicism prevents you from seeing the qualities in Obama, then you ought to just stay right the fuck out of politics and leave the country you have no intention of fighting for.

Oh, don't pretend you're doing any good by refusing to vote for the Democratic candidate. Whether you think you can do any good or not otherwise is irrelevant, if you help McCain by withholding your support, you're not helping anyone.

[dysfunctional press]

119. the elected democrats are moreso than not.

if you want to support evil men with your vote- that's YOUR perogative.

i won't be.

[The Doctor.]

121. So Obama is 'evil'. Right.

Sorry, don't buy it. I've done enough looking to have reasonable expectations of him.

[dysfunctional press]

122. he may be more one of the nots than the moreso...

it remains to be seen.

[The Doctor.]

124. It only 'remains to be seen' because you haven't really looked.

I know that his Senate record doesn't give us much to go on, but just reading all the literature and anecdotes you come across with a critical eye can tell you volumes.

[alarimer]

60. Meaning he is just a liar like all the rest.

I am so surprised.

[OhioChick]

63. "NAFTA is one of the greatest accomplishments of the Clinton Administration"

You did forget the sarcasm emoticon, right? Come to Ohio and see what NAFTA did to it.

[Marie26]

64. So he's saying that he lied to Ohio voters.

And it's more evidence for the story that Obama sent Goolsbee to warn Canada that criticism of NAFTA was just "campaign rhetoric" At least they didn't fall for it.

[Runcible Spoon]

77. "campaign rhetoric"

that is thinly veiled politico speak for: "yeah we told those suckers what they wanted to hear, but you know me." Wink wink nudge nudge.

[CHIMO]

67. Obama backs off NAFTA attack ahead of McCain visit to Canada

American presidential hopeful Barack Obama appears to have moderated his opposition to NAFTA just ahead of Republican rival John McCain's extraordinary visit to Canada to praise the trade pact.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.2008...

[texshelters]

68. What an ass!

He is pandering already. I know he's funded by corporations too, but does he really need to pander to Wall Street? At least he said that he would talk about the treaties and rework them to an extent.

He could have stuck to his talking points and explained them, but instead, he bent in the wind of corporate America.

Hello President McCain! (If Obama keeps that shit up)

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[The Doctor.]

76. I'm sure he has a great ass, but that's no excuse to lie.

He's not 'funded by corporations'. Back it up or shut up.

Meanwhile, go here;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Catherina]

69. Look Barack. Don't be backpeddling now. Just don't do it

"Sometimes during campaigns the rhetoric gets overheated and amplified," he conceded, after I reminded him that he had called NAFTA "devastating" and "a big mistake," despite nonpartisan studies concluding that the trade zone has had a mild, positive effect on the U.S. economy.

Does that mean his rhetoric was overheated and amplified? "Politicians are always guilty of that, and I don't exempt myself," he answered.

That won't cut it with the working class, you know the little guys who gave you every penny we could to fight disgusting sell-out nonesense like NAFTA. This is two Obama disappointments in one day. I'm not happy.

Your statement Robcon that "NAFTA is one of the greatest accomplishments of the Clinton Administration" is sick shit.

[Zachstar]

72. I will admit Obama has been really disappointing me lately.

I think he has lost his grip and he is quickly creating an opening for McCain.

NAFTA is shit. I don't care what bullshit has been said about it being a benefit. The ones benefiting from it are rich people Obama. Get that through your skull now before you head down idiotville lane.

[Catherina]

81. I'm glad I'm not alone. He needs to stop this nonesense immediately

People are seriously hurting in this country. Little people who are depending on you Barack.

[Zachstar]

83. Im going to call the campaign Friday to let them know that Obama needs to stop this.

I figure if others do the same he will stop the crap.

[burrowowl]

74. I will vote for him because I have to

But people like Carvil on CNN saying he is to the left of Bernie Sanders is asininity. Obama is to the left of John McCain and that doesn't take much!
I hope that once in the WH he goes more Left, even Center would be nice.

[JackDragna]

84. Just more proof Obama is a part of the system..

..meaning nothing is going to change. It was obvious both Clinton and Obama were just going to perpetuate the economic inequality in the U.S., but people supporting both candidates became deluded in the heat of the campaign struggle.

[readmoreoften]

87. Just remember to be really supportive of the next Zapatista uprising.

There's the upside.

[yurbud]

89. who is he shining on, us or rich?

We won't know until after he's in office. But he can't tell the truth to both and get elected.

[robcon]

93. NAFTA is a trimuph of Democratic Party policy.

It was Bill Clinton's leadershup that allowed NAFTA to be passed through Congress. We should continue more free trade treaties: they're pro-peace and pro-prosperity.

I believe Obama's previous stance on NAFTA was a race-to-the-bottom rhetoric war in a couple of states' primaries.

[yurbud]

95. so is that why South America is turning against us? They were too stupid to see that neoliberalism

was helping them?

[Zhade]

128. Yes, heartless conservative idiots do think that.

NT!

[Psephos]

131. Calling robcon a name is your whole argument?

Not very persuasive.

[lumberjack_jeff]

100. Just guessing here... us. n/t

[cobalt1999]

96. Is there a single person that really believed him in Ohio?

If so, you haven't been watching politicians for long.

[BreweryYardRat]

97. WTF?

If I ever get a chance to meet the guy, I know what I'll be criticizing him for.

Seriously, fuck NAFTA. That caused way more problems than it solved.

[DailyGrind51]

101. NAFTA would not, in itself, be so bad, if America had the same

social safety net as Canada and European nations to assist displaced American workers. This "retraining" nonsense, especially for older workers is bull-shit. It is a betrayal to those workers who retrained on computers in the '90s, only to have their tech jobs exported to India after 2000. In addition, there is nothing compelling employers to hire 50+ year-olds for what are essentially entry level jobs anyway.

[Overseas]

102. Let's talk his mild statement up so we can divide the Democratic party

The Republicans would love it if we would divide the Democratic party by making Obama's mild statement a big deal and talking it up as unforgivable.

[Romulox]

105. Flip your statement on its head: Why risk dividing the party in favor of neoliberal economics?

Easy answer: $$$

[Romulox]

104. THIS is the reason Obama didn't want to campaign in Michigan: He'd have to make too many promises

that he had no intention of keeping.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

109. "NAFTA not so bad after all"

Nowhere in article.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

110. Except for made-up headline.

eta:

[Divine Discontent]

127. exactly... so disturbing, but expected!

asshats...


New Pro-Obama & Anti-McSame Items Weekly!
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[The Doctor.]

112. Whatta shock!

[Zhade]

129. What? You mean the OP posted yet another conservative lie?

I'm shocked!

[ohio2007]

115. McCain promotes NAFTA in Canadian trip

snip
Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown, a Democrat, criticized McCain.


"Instead of delivering a speech from Ottawa, Canada, Sen. McCain should visit Ottawa, Ohio, where the Phillips plant closed," Brown said in a statement. "We need trade policies that create new jobs at home, not ship them to Mexico."


snip

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/080620/n_top_news/ne...

[JCMach1]

116. Chicago School economics team- What did you expect?

[EndElectoral]

123. Dissapointed in Obama on NAFTA and FISA backtracking

I supported Obama in the primary, but am disturbed at this backtracking on NAFTA and his endorsement of the House bill on FISA.

NAFTA and globalaization has been a disaster for America and will turn out to be a significant turning point toward huge competition from China and India down the road, perhaps even militarily as well as economically.

The FISA retreat shows more leeway to excuse telecoms over the actions of private citizens.

Frankly, I don't get it.

To me this waffling makes him appear weak and vacilating. Most Americans do not like NAFTA, yet Obama chooses to back corproations that do for cheaper labor.

Maybe I'm missing something, but very dissapointed.

[xxqqqzme]

125. the dlc cometh

nt