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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:07 PM
Original message
Hints of 'time before Big Bang'
Source: BBC

A team of physicists has claimed that our view of the early Universe may contain the signature of a time before the Big Bang.

The discovery comes from studying the cosmic microwave background (CMB), light emitted when the Universe was just 400,000 years old.

...snip...

The CMB is relic radiation that fills the entire Universe and is regarded as the most conclusive evidence for the Big Bang.

Although this microwave background is mostly smooth, the Cobe satellite in 1992 discovered small fluctuations that were believed to be the seeds from which the galaxy clusters we see in today's Universe grew.

...snip...

Dr Adrienne Erickcek, and colleagues from the California Institute for Technology (Caltech), now believes these fluctuations contain hints that our Universe "bubbled off" from a previous one.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7440217.stm



This is going to give the YEC's fits.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. I love that Calvin & Hobbes cartoon where they criticize the name "Big Bang"
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 03:10 PM by JoeIsOneOfUs
Calvin says something like, that's all they could come up with? that's why people don't pay attention to science, they should have called it the giant space kablooie!

edit to add Wiki found me the exact language:
"A Sunday, 21 June 1992 strip discussing the Big Bang coined the term "Horrendous Space Kablooie" for the event, a term which has achieved some tongue-in-cheek popularity among the scientific community, particularly in informal discussion and often shortened to "the HSK".<25> The term has also been referenced in newspapers,<26><27> books,<28> and as a part of university courses;<29> Michael Strauss, associate professor of astrophysical sciences at Princeton University, uses "Horrendous Space Kablooie" and the associated Calvin and Hobbes comic strips in his astronomy lectures.<30>"
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. You sound like the person to ask - just what are YEC's?? n/t
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uberllama42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Young Earth Creationists
They are people who believe that the Earth was created more or less as described in the bible, between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. Polls usually show that between 45% and 55% of Americans are young-earth creationists.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Thanks for the quick reply. Now are the YEC's the same people who think that the
Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 11:30 PM by truedelphi
Dinosaurs were raptured??
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uberllama42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Dunno
I'm sure some of them are. I had a friend in high school who didn't believe in dinosaurs. She was in my brother's chem class, and one day he told me our friend had dropped that bomb on him.

She had gone to a Baptist school the year before, where they literally used the bible in class. For sciency stuff. We in public school were such a bad influence on her. And by bad I mean we pretty much got her to stop believing in God, which in my book is about the best influence you can have on somebody. :P
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. You guys performed a wonderful service for her - you freed her mind.
I applaud your efforts for rationality and honesty!

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Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Wikipedia is wrong.
The Sunday, 21 June 1992 Calvin and Hobbes strip was about Calvin getting stung by a bee.



I scanned through the entire collection and was unable to find anything about a "Horrendous Space Kablooie".

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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Pfft, scientists -- what do *they* know?" -- Homer Simpson
And YECs.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bubble off? so we are like...indigestion? nt
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. We've known for a long time that the denizens of the previous incarnation of our universe
Had a great penchant for Bacon Jalapeno Pizza with Extra Cheese and hi fat Ranch Dressing on the side.

Apparently they consumed this in such massive quantities, and washed it down with kajillions of gallons of rogmulak beer that it was only a matter of time :P
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. I think it was just one of those parties that got out of hand.
It was getting late, and Xyegkelqm got the bright idea to stick a hexwnekl into the microwave to see what would happen. Since he was qpucgl-faced at the time, he didn't remember to pierce the shell. After a few paqnnkls, the hexwnekl exploded all over interior of the microwave. And so there we are, a molecule of microwave-laced hexwnekl clinging to the interior of the infinite microwave, waiting for the host of the party to squirt some Mr. Kpqknd on us and scrape us off the interior.

That's my theory.
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Blaq Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. No, it was like a fart. n/t
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Big Bang is so last decade.
Just about the time the Catholic Church came to grips with the Big Bang, Steven Hawkings decided he wasn't so hot about it. He now thinks that a Big Collapse preceded the Big Bang, maybe even multiple cycles. This is from my memory which is suspect. I haven't read anything by Mr. Hawkings in years.

The above information is free and I think you'll find, worth every penny.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Uh oh..Ben Stein will make another docunonsense to refute "bubbled off"
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Just as I thought our universe from the Big Bang is a developing fetus
within a universal uterus. I would call the time before the Big Bang, Foreplay Time for lack of a better term.

The early forming rocky planets were the equivalent of barren eggs, the asteroids and comets bringing life giving compounds sperm cells, dark matter serves as the placenta holding everything together while it develops.

"Detailed measurements made by the satellite have shown that the fluctuations in the microwave background are about 10% stronger on one side of the sky than those on the other.

Sean Carroll conceded that this might just be a coincidence, but pointed out that a natural explanation for this discrepancy would be if it represented a structure inherited from our universe's parent.

Meanwhile, Professor Carroll urged cosmologists to broaden their horizons: "We're trained to say there was no time before the Big Bang, when we should say that we don't know whether there was anything - or if there was, what it was."

That 10% stronger on one side is probably the head of our universal body as the head is usually out sized in a fetus. Most everything seems to be continually dividing, and expanding, I imagine until when that bubble pops and then our universe will be born and we will make up its body in one form or another.

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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Really cool!
I like your theory!
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. Thanks, FitzmasAgain, I would like to call it a theory, but at this point
it's just my hypothesis.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. when God was a stem cell
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. Curiouser and curiouser. And multiple universes become a more likely concept all the time.
There may be an infinite number of universes, and science seems to be pointing in that direction. Physicists are having a hell of a time with the growing rapidity of the expansion of the universe, and I have read more recently about the concept of endless universes than in the previous decade. Great time for speculation.

Reminds me of the terrific Star Trek: Next Generation episode where an endless number of Enterprises popped into view, each with a different story to tell. Cool stuff. I don't know how unique we are, but I hope there's only of these, no matter how many universes may exist:

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adnelson60087 Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Personally, I hoping for a universe where Al Gore was elected in 2000.
Can you imagine how must that Earth does NOT suck!!
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. I think the episode is
"All Good Things..." from season 7.
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Penance Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Nope, "Parallels" from Season 7
Geek, and proud of it!
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I was close...
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adnelson60087 Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. I wonder if this could be more evidence pointing towards the
idea of the Multiverse? Wouldn't it be wild if the "parent universe" existed in one of the 10 or 11 dimensions put forward by M Theory? We need a whole lot more data here...Man, I love science!!
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. How much would it blow
if THIS was the parent universe?

:scared:
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-08-08 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. what kind of data are you hoping for that would...
demonstrate the existence of a multiverse?

These things are on the far end of theory, heavily sexed up for mass consumption. Fun to think about, interesting, but too often resemble pseudoscience more than real science.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. Oh my goodness. This stuff is so totally fascinating to me
And I don't have the brainpower to really *get* it. That's so frustrating. It's like I need twice the space in my skull to contain those sort of thoughts.

So cool!
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. The Large Hadron Collider is due to come online within the next couple of weeks.
Once they start smashing protons together, it may reveal the existence of additional dimensions of spacetime, additional fundamental particles, and more clues to the basic nature of the universe... or multiverse.


http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc /


Only a couple of segments to go before they are all light blue- cooled to the proper temperature.
What a feat of engineering!


More info:

http://www.uslhc.us/What_is_the_LHC

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-discovery-machi...

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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. can't wait to see them create a black hole...
what if black holes don't actually occur naturally, and only occur when a civilization progresses to the point where they are performing advanced experiments in theoretical physics?

:shrug:

huh? -what if..?
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
26. k/r
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
27. I thought the universe was sneezed out of the nose of the
Great Green Arkleseizure?
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bmbmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-07-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. No.
AC said "Let there be light".
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-08-08 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
32. You guys are all wrong! It began with the Holy Nullity
The Universe (of discourse) was begat by the Power (set) of the Null Set, followed by the Power (set) of the Power (set) of the Null Set, and so on and so forth, to (indefinite) infinity.

Don't you see? Can't you see the Great Truth?

Nothing is sacred!

;)

I reveal this truth to you all in my role as a Cardinal of the Church of the Holy Nullity (we have Ordinals, too).

(By now there are two sets of readers: those who've studied mathematics and who are chuckling to themselves, and those who haven't, who are puzzled. The babble above is the mathematics behind number systems where, yes, everything is derived from nothing. Once upon a long time ago I and a number of my fellow 500-level Set Theory students founded The Church of The Holy Nullity in order to promulgate the Great Truth :) Sorry if it goes over most people's heads, but I couldn't resist.)
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Twillig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-08-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
34. "our Universe "bubbled off" from a previous one."
Dr. Erickcek says our Universe is not the first and best?

That is anti-'Mericun!


Love it or leave it Professor!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
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ldf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-08-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
35. of course there was time before the big bang
pardon for the difficulty in getting these ideas across, but it does seem coherent to me....

imho, there are two things that can not be changed.

time always was/is/will be. it never started and will never stop. (hence, no "creator". therefore, no "in the beginning", nor "at the end of time"... that pretty much takes care of those two issues...)

if there was a big bang from a mass of everything in the "universe", until it blew it just sat there, biding its "time", until it DID blow.

(my opinion is that there have been, and will be, an infinite number of "big bangs" occurring PRIMARILY because time always has been, and always will be, and space is infinite.

that is the other thing. the second thing that can not change is that the universe never ends.

its like counting. you can't count to the highest number. it is simply impossible.

space continues into infinity. (the old question arises... what do you find when you get to the end of the universe?)

that is why there are an infinite number of big bangs happening simultaneously/overlapping, throughout the "universe", which has no boundaries.

a side affect?

there were two reasons religions were invented.

to explain these concepts that it is hard to wrap our brains around...

and manipulation of people BECAUSE of our inability to grasp certain concepts.

it seems pretty simple to me.

:shrug:

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