Accused 9/11 mastermind wants death sentence

[otherlander]

Source: A.P.

By ANDREW O. SELSKY, Associated Press Writer
25 minutes ago

GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said he would welcome becoming a "marytr" after a judge warned Thursday that he faces the death penalty for his confessed role as mastermind of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Wearing thick glasses and occasionally fussing with his turban or stroking his bushy gray beard, Mohammed seemed noticeably thinner in his first appearance since his capture in Pakistan in 2003. It was a stark contrast to the image the U.S. showed to the world back then, of a slovenly man with disheveled hair, an unshaven face and a T-shirt.

Mohammed also sang verses from the Quran, rejected his attorneys and told Judge Ralph Kohlmann, a Marine colonel, that he wants to represent himself at the war crimes trial. The judge warned that he faces execution if convicted of organizing the attacks on America. But the former No. 3 leader of al-Qaida was insistent.

"Yes, this is what I wish, to be a martyr for a long time," Mohammed declared. "I will, God willing, have this, by you."


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080605/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_sept11_trial

[no_hypocrisy]

1. I'm not sure you can be a martyr if you request death.

[atreides1]

5. I think you can

Both men and women can obtain martyrdom by the following means: While guarding the territory of Islam or the territory of Muslims, by falling from his mount while riding to battle or by falling from his mount, on her death bed while striving in the path of Allah, due to the collapse of a building on him while he is still trapped inside, dies by being attacked by a beast, dies while being a stranger in a new land or place, from a stomach ailment.

It is mentioned in a hadith narrated by Abu Hurayrah according to which Muhammad said: “The shuhadaa’ are five: the one who dies of plague, the one who dies of a stomach disease, the one who drowns, the one who is crushed by a falling wall, and the one who is killed for the sake of Allah.” This was narrated by Maalik in al-Muwatta’, and by al-Bukhaari.

I'm sure he believes that he will be killed for the sake of Allah.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. So, therefore all that matters is that you for sake of Allah. It's irrelevent

whether you are murdered or you ask to be murdered.

[Xenotime]

52. So...was this guy a * cabinet member or something?

[billybob537]

2. Fuck Him,

Take him outside run him over with a bus and film it. Then say he was accidently runover while escping.

[atreides1]

3. Yes

Let's be just like all those dictators and tyrants that use the same excuse!! Too late, we already are!!!!

[mike_c]

4. well, that's more-or-less what this kangaroo court is designed to do....

Good to see your sense of justice is at least as well developed as a five year olds' the Bush administrations'.

[winter999]

11. Do you think there's any court in the land that would exonerate him?

Do you personally believe he is innocent?

[mike_c]

13. I "personally believe" that the evidence has not been heard....

...that the nature of the crime has not even been established-- do you believe the government's version of the Sept. 11 events?-- and that any evidence the government might have in this case was obtained under torture. Do I believe he's innocent? Yes, as a matter of fact, I believe he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, under due process. Since he is being afforded neither, he is de facto innocent.

[winter999]

16. I'm not talking evidence or process or anything legal.

I'm asking you if you believe in your heart that he's an innocent victim and every crime he's been fingered with is false. I'm not asking you to be an objective jury member. I'm asking you if from all the information you've read/heard/seen, do you believe in his innocence.

Your "legal" argument applies to everyone. Even the criminals who were caught ON TAPE beating Rodney King were presumed innocent until proven guilty, but everyone who saw the film knew the truth.

[mike_c]

21. I wasn't just making a legal point....

I really do believe "in my heart" that I cannot judge this man under these circumstances and that none of us has the right to do so. I have NO information about his actions other than what the government-- whom I do not trust-- has disseminated about him in the absence of a trial. You asked earlier whether any court would exonerate him. How can anyone know the answer to that question unless he's actually given a fair trial?

Unlike the Rodney King case, no one filmed Khalid Sheikh Mohammed "master-minding 9/11", and even if he's guilty he deserves to have a court examine the evidence and the circumstances of the crime. The crime itself is shrouded in mystery, largely at government behest.

I think this is an utter travesty that mocks everything I believe about justice. It's about blind vengeance and political power, not justice. We can have justice against this man if he is guilty of crimes, but only if we keep our own hands clean in the process. The current proceedings are a kangaroo court and a lynch mob. That's not anything remotely like justice.

[BobbyVan]

26. He also admitted planning 9/11 to Al Jazeera

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/mar/04/alqaida.terrorism

Would you let Hitler go free, if he couldn't get a fair trial?

[mike_c]

27. yes I would....

No hesitation. We either live by our principles or they mean nothing.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's media claims should certainly be introduced as evidence if he is ever given a fair hearing.

[BobbyVan]

29. "Let justice be done, though the heavens may fall"

That would be an apt description of your position.

You and I disagree, obviously.

And as much as I disagree with the Bush Administration, I won't shed a tear over KSM. He's got too much blood on his hands, and I have more important things to do with my sympathies.

[Uncle Joe]

50. I believe when people are tried in the media and not the courts, heaven has already fell. n/t

[JackRiddler]

45. A dubious episode if ever there was one...

Confirmation bias: Why would anyone uncritically accept Yosri Fouda's story of his "KSM" interview?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=150885&mesg_id=150885

[Sterling]

46. Nice to see you Jack!!!!

How can any of us "know" this guy is guilty under these circumstances? There was no trial. Most of the information we have is hearsay and questionable at best. I would like to know for sure who did this before we start killing people for the crime.

[defendandprotect]

53. "He admitted planning 9/11" . . ???

Are you joking ---

If they tortured you, you'd admit to planning 9/11 --- !!!

[winter999]

28. "Unlike the Rodney King case, no one filmed Khalid Sheikh Mohammed "master-minding 9/11", - wrong.

Try reading some regional new papers and foreign reports and quit relying on our MSM. A-Q is obsessive with recording meetings and filming "education" videos. What do you think the US did? Pull his name out of a hat? Poor Joe-Schmo? It was Pakistani intelligence who has the evidence. They charged him, gathered evidence, tracked him, and found him.

I appreciate your opinion, but at the end of the day, my family and yours are safer with KSM behind bars.

You won't convince me and I won't convince you. However, if KSM is asking the US to kill him, do you want to? Do you give him his wish or "torture" him by keeping alive?

[mike_c]

30. then by all means that evidence should be used to establish...

...his guilt or innocence in a real criminal court under common law. Do you believe that summary justice is a better way to prosecute crimes, even when there is little doubt about guilt or innocence? You're right-- you'll never convince me that summary justice is anything but just another crime against humanity dressed up to appear in the peoples' interest.

As for your last question, I'm generally opposed to capital punishment. If Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wants to take his own life, it's his to do with as he pleases, but I don't want the state involved in that process.

[louis-t]

31. If found innocent (fat chance) he will remain in Gitmo!

Heard this morning on CNN. Couldn't believe my ears.

[mike_c]

32. yup-- this was never about justice or anything remotely like justice....

It's about political power and blind vengeance, with a healthy measure of bread and circuses for the mob. I can't believe how many folks would like to dance beneath his gibbet.

[BobbyVan]

34. "do you believe the government's version of the Sept. 11 events?"

You asked that earlier.

While there may be some quibbles here or there about the 9/11 report, I'm wondering what you believe about the 9/11 events.

Do you think it was a "false flag" operation?

Personally, I have high confidence / certainty that Al Qaeda was behind the attacks, and that the Bush Administration was negligent in several important respects, but did not engineer the attacks, nor did they knowingly allow the attacks to happen in order to justify foreign adventures.

[mike_c]

36. an interesting question....

I don't think I'm going to provide you with a satisfying answer. The quick answer is that I don't really know what to believe, although I distrust the government's statements so thoroughly that it's hard to accept ANY of the things you mentioned as probably true. It's also impossible to reject them, BTW, and that brings us to the longer answer.

I think we've been deliberately deluded, but by the very nature of delusions, the evidence we do have-- again, mostly statements from an untrustworthy government-- cannot be trusted to tell us anything about 9/11. I don't think it was a false-flag operation for the same reasons that I don't accept the official story: the evidence is not trustworthy, and therefore cannot be used to establish either belief. I think the larger question is WHY has our government deliberately obscured the evidence about what happened on September 11? Undoubtedly THAT story will emerge some day, although it too might never be conclusive enough to have any confidence in.

I'm a scientist in my day job, BTW, which might go some way toward explaining both my reverence for objective evidence and my comfortable willingness to be uncommitted to any "belief" in the absence of trustworthy data.

[BobbyVan]

37. "WHY has our government deliberately obscured the evidence about what happened on September 11?"

First, thanks for your thoughtful answer.

To answer your question, I think individual bureaucrats and certain institutions within our government "obscured" evidence in order to protect their respective backsides. Negligence occurs every day in government, just like in any organization, but when that negligence can be connected to a failure to "connect the dots" in regard to a terrorist operation, it becomes much more serious. Hence, people try to cover up their own mistakes by saying "I don't recall" when asked about important events, or by stuffing secret documents in their socks.

What I'm trying to say is that there is plenty to complain about in terms of Bush's policies, but there is little to suggest that 9/11 was anything other than an attack on America by Al Qaeda. I just think we ought to be clear on this point, because to even suggest that 9/11 could have been orchestrated or intentionally allowed to happen by the US government should require credible evidence, not disingenuous "questions" about the "official version of events."

Also, have you read the Popular Mechanics debunking of the 9/11 conspiracy theories? What did you think about that, as a scientist?

[mike_c]

38. well, we're getting off topic here so I'll answer briefly and sort of generally....

...regarding the PM article. Yes, I've read it and it raises some interesting points. However, much of the information it presents is someone's opinion and opinions nearly always have to be considered within the context they were expressed, i.e. many of those opinions had an agenda to serve, and that makes them suspect. Those conspiracy theories exist because there are contrary opinions in many cases, and those were not given equal consideration. I'm much more comfortable with physical evidence, and I do think there are still MANY outstanding questions regarding the physical evidence. That is my opinion, of course.

The more general comment is that one of the first things I try to impress on my students is that research with an agenda is automatically suspect. Present the evidence, try to interpret it for others, but don't try to bend evidence to serve specific agendas. The PM article BEGINS with the statement "Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened...." That is the very definition of bad science-- it prejudges the facts before the evidence is even considered because criticism of the official story needed to be "confronted," and an informed reader must assume that contrary evidence was not given equal consideration within the stated framework of disputing "poisonous claims."

[Sterling]

47. Wow great statement

Sums up my feelings very well. How the hell do we know anything about 9-11 except that the government chose to lie to us about it?

[coalition_unwilling]

40. The government lied about Iraq. Why wouldn't it lie about 9-11?? -n/t

[BobbyVan]

41. That's a fair point

But what makes me skeptical is that when it comes to Iraq, there have been countless Administration officials who have come forward to talk about how intelligence was manipulated to make the case for war in Iraq.

I have not seen any credible US officials come forward to say that the US government "version of events" of 9/11 is fundamentally untrue.

[Sterling]

48. There have been a lot of people who have come out.

I think the Iraq war was obviously a much larger and necessarily public undertaking. Where as many people in the government or who were in the government pre 9-11 have come out to point out inconsistencies in the official story most of them only have the extremely compartmentalized part of the event they have access to information about.

The FBI FISA people for one example.

[defendandprotect]

54. "Some quibbles about 9/11 report" . . . !!! ????

Just simply deal with the NORAD non-response and tell me that was a "quibble" --- !! ???

Of course 9/11 w as a "false flag" operation --- and just one more act of violence in this
at least 50 year period of political violence!!!

Evidently you don't understand that the US created Taliban and "Al Qaeda" . . . ????
And that we had 24 hour a day surveillance of not only the Taliban/Al Qaeda but of at least
two of the alleged "hijackers" who were on a 24 hour FBI watch list --- ????

I think you should also read the time line which will give you more information on the phenomenal
number of warnings that America had received which were specific --- ongoing for months and months --
up until the last moments when the United Nations sent representatives from their security division
repeating these warnings to the White House and our intelligence agencies . . . because so many
were concerned with the Bush's ignoring the warnings!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. Naw. Lock him in a cell for the rest of his life

watching Britney Spears videos 24/7. He'd hang himself and be disqualified.

[winter999]

14. I agree. Once found guilty (no doubt there),

give him a life sentence for each American life he's responsible for taking. When he dies, keep it quite. Let him know that no one will ever hear about him again. These fanatics want to be sensationalist. Who was it a few years back, Reid?, who used the court to spout off his agenda and try to create a circus. I have seen copies of jihadi handbooks that teach how to use the system to further their chaos.

This would be a great way to show the world how a Western country differs from his land by showing mercy where he wouldn't. NO DEATH penalty... too easy.

[DinahMoeHum]

35. Same here. Let him go preach to the cockroaches in Supermax

for the rest of his miserable life.

For a religious fanatic like him who has no remorse or forgiveness in his heart, life is a far worse punishment than death.

:evilfrown:

[Judi Lynn]

8. Here's his photo taken when he was NOT attacked in his sleep and thrown in jail.

They sure got a lot of mileage with their capture photo. Wonder how _{George W. Bush} would look under the same circumstances.

[otherlander]

9. I was wondering why they were still using that same old picture.

I was thinking maybe they didn't have a new one because reporters with cameras weren't allowed in or something.

[Judi Lynn]

15. Just dirty propaganda. They have other photos, but choose the most bizarre one to run.

Here's the guy without the glasses, and hair:

http://img.timeinc.net.nyud.net:8090/time/daily/2003/0303/shaikh0301.jpg

[tritsofme]

39. Just fucking bizzare shit you find here.

Oh woe is me! How dare a filthy murderer not be portrayed in a flattering manner!

[Solly Mack]

10. The US government tortured that man and wants to call it all a matter

of justice.

Calls it democracy in action. Claims it shows the greatness of our courts....of our country.


LMAO

[yellerpup]

17. I'd want to be martyred too if all I had to look forward to was more torture.

Maybe he was responsible (partially) for 9/11 and maybe he wasn't. Because of his being tortured we will never know for sure.

[winter999]

18. There's more evidence that just his confession.

No one can get arrested by saying they did a crime. There's always got to be more than someone's word. Always.

[yellerpup]

33. I would hope so.

But, if the trial is secret will we ever know for sure? I'm not trying to be difficult because I'd love to see the perpetrators of 9/11 brought to justice. I used to be able to see the Twin Towers from where I live and I breathed the tragedy every day as the martyred souls from that event lingered on the wind for weeks after the event, so yes I want justice done. Torture is wrong no matter who does it and I'm sure that you agree. I thank you for your your words of comfort. I truly appreciate that.

[JackRiddler]

44. He wasn't arrested

He was detained as an enemy combatant, a category the Bush administration invented.

[MountainLaurel]

43. And was this the guy

Whose children were being held by the CIA?

[Solly Mack]

49. Yes.

they were also "detained"

[LeftyMom]

12. "Yes, this is what I wish, to be a martyr for a long time" Last I checked, martyrdom is permanent.

Language issue, or not getting the whole death=forever thing, which would suggest he's incompetent to stand trial?

[Tesha]

20. It meant: "For a long time I have wished to be martyred."

But I found the syntax amusing in the same way you did:

By their theology, martyrdom *IS* permanent.

Tesha

[LeftyMom]

22. That makes sense. I just wasn't sure how to parse that statement.

Thanks!

[sui generis]

19. well in respect of his religious beliefs

a martyr is a martyr, regardless of faith. Just glad to see how crap ass crazy this fucker makes all of it look.

That and a little help from the head exploding cartoon hating freaks tells me that "literalist" religion is for children.

There are gracious people who view their religion as a philosophy, and philosophy does not have martyrs, does not seek to kill everyone who disagrees with you.

My problem with the military prosecution:

We're prosecuting the CRIME of terrorism. We're not prosecuting a war crime or genocide or a battlefield atrocity. This should not be prosecuted in an extrajudicial military setting by incompetent military boobs. The military is for protection and order within its own ranks, not for prosecution, negotiation, procurement and supply chain management, engineering, or any other thing they routinely fail at.

Finally, the "death penalty" is the god damn stupidest thing you can do here to people like this. Put him in a tank for the rest of his life and feed him through a crack in the wall. Release photos of him playing pinochle with his shit after a couple years. Death ain't all it's cracked up to be and sure as hell doesn't punish the dead. You want to punish the living, take away all their freedoms forever period.

[Kali]

23. Cheney?

I thought he was already dead - or undead - whatever.

[sui generis]

24. snork

they're both chuutya gaand mofos who need to be tried in criminal courts.

I just wonder what we call GWB. I'm not even sure what the point of having a head is if you don't have a brain.

[mike_c]

25. the Rude Pundit nails this one pretty thoroughly....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3391064

[tom_paine]

42. So let's give him what he wants. Although the idea of him rotting for life and NOT getting what

he wants is also appealing.

Something of a win-win, such as it is.

ON EDIT: The Rude Pundit did indeed nail it, though that doesn't change my intial sentiment.

[AzDar]

51. A Potemkin trial that will result in a Potemkin verdict, on behalf of a Potemkin government.

Just in time for the election .

:puke: