Fulbright scholarships restored to 7 Gaza students

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

JERUSALEM - The U.S. has reinstated the Fulbright scholarships of seven Gaza Strip students blocked by Israel from leaving the Hamas-ruled territory, according to a letter obtained by The Associated Press.

The students were informed Thursday that their scholarships for the upcoming academic year would be deferred because they couldn't get out of Gaza, which Israel blockaded after Islamic Hamas militants seized power a year ago.

A letter dated Sunday from the U.S. consulate in Jerusalem said officials were working to secure exit permits so the students could continue the visa and university placement process.

"We are working very closely with the Government of Israel in order to secure its cooperation in this matter," the letter said. Consulate officials would not comment Monday beyond confirming the letter's authenticity.

On Monday, Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev indicated the problem would be solved.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/gaza_fulbright_scholars;_

[Clovis Sangrail]

1. I dont' understand

I don't follow everything that goes on the middle east - I consider it an real life adult soap opera with guns and villains - so maybe I'm unclear on the borders of Gaza (this is Gaza strip right?).

Doesn't Gaza border on the Mediterranean and Egypt as well as Israel?
Why do they have to go through an Israeli check point?

[katerinasmommy]

3. There Are Fences

All around Gaza. This is a reservation for all practical purposes, one they can't leave. Of course most people in Gaza are perfectly innocent decent people like these kids, but I guess who cares about that.

[Clovis Sangrail]

4. do they keep boats from coming/going?

I'm not sure how old the pictures on google maps are but it looks like there's a good sized harbor (though not commercial).

[katerinasmommy]

5. Yes they do

The Israeli Navy patrols the coast aggressively, presumably to prevent the import of weapons into Gaza.

[Clovis Sangrail]

8. GAHHH!!!!

this got me to do what I try not to do... read up on I/P stuff.

Now I'm upset.
I fucking hate Israel.

:mad:

I'll probably have to start taking those pills again... either that or up my dose of American Idol.

[katerinasmommy]

10. The Whole Thing is Awful

Lot of people are held hostage in this. It's not just the Palestinians, though they are arguably some of most abused people in history, there are also a lot of peaceful well meaning Israelis that are also harmed by this futile and horrible tit for tat and back and forth.

I once saw a film about Palestianian and Jewish kids who got to know each other due to the film maker's introduction, and a little Jewish boy said something I will never forget. To paraphrase, he said that he hated the way the things were and that he thought it could be different but that the adults had to do it. Too bad that's true. The "adults" don't seem to be capable. What both sides are doing to their children by continuing this, I don't understand. The Post Traumatic Stress Disorder statistics among kids there, especially the Palestinian kids, are just obscene.

[Clovis Sangrail]

11. the movie was called 'Promises'

I watched it not too long ago.

Very moving... very sad.

[katerinasmommy]

12. VERY Sad but I have a piece of good news about it

I have seen this film twice, the second time just recently in a Middle Eastern History class. There was a Palestinian girl in my class who happened to be a cousin of the little boy that was featured in it, the one that seemed to be losing hope towards the end. He now lives in the U.S. and is doing very well indeed. Wish I could say that same about all of children there.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. You fucking hate Israel?

You seem not to know much about the situation in that area by your own admission, and this incident has led you to "fucking hate Israel." It is reactions like this which allow unfettered bigotry to swell (on both sides).

[Clovis Sangrail]

28. no... I choose not to read about it very often

I've been reading about it for years.

If it were the Palestinians flying attack helicopters, bulldozing farms, and killing innocent civilians I'd fucking hate them too.
As it is I just fucking hate the Palestinians that kill innocent civilians.

I don't think it's fair to blame all Palestinian people for the acts of some Palestinians... and while I certainly don't blame the random Israeli for something their govt does, that govt is ultimately one of their choosing so as a group they do bare some responsibility for its actions.

Just as the American people bare some responsibility for the criminals currently running the asylum here.

[ret5hd]

6. Reservation? More like ghetto, in the original sense.

[katerinasmommy]

7. Actually a lot of reservations were/are about the same n/t

[dasein]

9. Gaza is walled in

by Israeli-built fences. There is one checkpoint, I believe, into Egypt and it is under Israel's control. They also control all food, clean water, medical supplies, etc. that go into Gaza.

I'm glad that the grants have been restored to those students - they shouldn't be penalized by the US for a petty action on Israel's part, and giving people access to education like this is a good way to build up the foundations for a real peace process.

[Indenturedebtor]

13. I'm glad to hear that their scholarships were restored

I have to say though I'm not entirely sure of what action people expect Israel to take to protect it's citizens? It is an ugly ugly situation but it is not as though they decided to just go and wall off Gaza out of the blue.

[katerinasmommy]

14. NOTHING there is as easy as it seems

The current problems started when that idiot Sharon decided to try and provoke the Palestinians into rage by going to Temple Mount. He knew damn well what would happen and he did it on purpose to achieve Eretz Yisrael. Everyone knew it at the time and everyone to this day ignores it. No, you don't bomb family passover dinners or pizza parlors full of teenagers. But neither do you bomb an entire apartment building full of families and kids to get one militant. Even the Bush administration comdemned that one. And frankly, lets not EVER forget that Palestinians had their land taken from them and lets please not bother with the revisionist history that says that's not so. It certainly IS so. BOTH sides here are being idiots and BOTH have complicity in what goes on there. Bottom line.

[Indenturedebtor]

17. Visiting one of the holiest sites in your religion

Is no excuse for killing people... that's one of the memes that needs to be held up to the light and discarded. I don't think it's revisionist history, nor do I think that everything Israel has done has been noble and just by any means. Both sides are at fault I agree... just wanted to contend a couple of points there.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. The Egyptian border crossing is under Egyptian control.

Learn more.

[katerinasmommy]

36. Who are threatened if they don't restrict crossings

Seems you need to learn a bit more too.

[Behind the Aegis]

39. Actually, you need to learn more because propaganda is not facts.

[katerinasmommy]

40. Egypt did not really want to close up the fence

But Israel and the U.S. made damn sure that the Egyptians plugged it back up again. http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4189334&page=1

That's my propaganda. Straight from ABC. You can find similar articles online from various sources. I'm only posting one. I am sure that the Israelis claim they must do it for security reasons. Now, if I were to say that they were wrong for doing it, THAT would be propaganda. In actuality, I have not done that, I've simply stated facts, apparently for you, inconvenient ones.

What's your proof that what I say isn't so?

[Behind the Aegis]

42. here...

Also Sunday, Egyptian troops closed the border with the Gaza Strip, ending 11 days of free movement and frenzied buying by Palestinian residents of the blockaded territory — at least for the time being. Egyptian forces were allowing Gazans and Egyptians to cross the border to return home, but prevented any new cross-border movement.

Egypt had made earlier unsuccessful attempts to close the border, but was thwarted by gunmen affiliated with Hamas, the militant Islamic group that took control of Gaza last summer. But after a visit to Cairo by senior Hamas officials, the Hamas gunmen apparently were cooperating with the Egyptians on Sunday.

NY Times

Egypt, and even Hamas, agreed to restrict the border.


From your link:

"Egypt has come under fierce Israeli and U.S. pressure to impose order. Israel and the U.S. are concerned that the breach in the border torpedoes the strategy of isolating the Hamas regime in Gaza. The three days of frenzied shopping has effectively undermined Israel's blockade."

Demanding that order being imposed is not the same as "making" certain the Egyptians "plugged it back up."

[katerinasmommy]

55. lol you've just proved my point

Just because the Egyptians agreed to do it doesn't mean they were particularly happy about it. Mubarak has political issues to worry about, for instance, the fact Egypt is one of the most virulently anti Israel places on Earth. It is a stronghold for the Muslim Brotherhood and relations historically with Israel have never been all that great to put it mildly. The people themselves irrationally hate all things Israel. Mubarak is a dictator and that is the ONE thing that worries him, discontent with his policies will get him kicked out.

So when I see that MUBARAK at the behest of Israel and the United States close the border, flying in the FACE of what would be a popular and fairly safe political decision for him, to keep the fence open, you know what's going on. Dictators in the Middle East have a tendency to play to the worst instincts of the population because it's a no cost safety valve for them. That Mubarak in this situation did not do that is pretty significant and says a lot.


Learn some real history besides that which suits you and learn to think critically



edited for spelling and grammar

[Behind the Aegis]

58. Then you didn't understand your own point.

Egypt did want to close the border earlier, but was thwarted by Hamas gunmen. Also, there were more than a few Egyptians who wanted the the borders re-sealed because they didn't want Palestinians in Egypt.

It is you who needs to learn current politics. Though you have shown you understand some of the Egyptian politics, you clearly don't understand other factors involved. It would have been popular to keep the fence open by those in the Muslim Brotherhood and its followers. The other reason is so Egypt would not appear to be like Israel (a fact you already provided), however, most Egyptians, especially in that area, were not happy with th sudden rush. I have yet to see anything that expresses an overall opinion of the Egyptian people about the Rafah border, just what I read in Egyptian blogs.

[katerinasmommy]

60. Egyptians LIke Anything Bad

That happens to Israel. The soldiers stood aside and happily let the Palestinians in. It was only when the goverment told them to that anyone stopped it. Ask yourself why that is

[The Stranger]

15. They are under Israeli military occupation. Meanwhile, the whole world shits on them.

It is disgusting.

[Indenturedebtor]

18. They are not guilt free here either... to put it lightly.

Both sides are at fault. If you say otherwise your judgement/bias is suspect.

[Clovis Sangrail]

19. unfortunately many affected *are blameless

Not every Palestinian is a suicide bomber and not every Israeli drops bombs on apartment bldgs.

In my mind Israel bears the brunt of the blame simply by the fact that they are the more organized entity.
As an entity they actually have control over sending in planes, dropping bombs, bulldozing houses, etc.
The Palestinians don't have control of random wing nuts who decide to strap bombs to themselves.. and Israel's actions only encourage more of them to crop up.

[Indenturedebtor]

27. Israeli actions certainly do. As does the Palesitinian leadership

Raise two generations of people to dehumanize Jews and Americans from when they are toddlers and see what happens :eyes:

Israel's prime concern is with protecting itself, as would be the primary concern of any country. Are they supposed to open the borders an let the suicide bombers stream in? They keep trying that and keep getting attacked. Over and over and over again. What do you suggest they do?

I suggest they stop bulldozing houses and settling illegally, but I also suggest that when they're attacked they respond. I don't see how that is unreasonable :shrug:

[Clovis Sangrail]

29. if somebody in your family is collateral damage

it is 'unreasonable'... regardless if you're Israeli or Palestinian.

It's not that Israel responds.. it's how Israel responds.

[katerinasmommy]

33. Bingo my friend n/t

[Indenturedebtor]

43. How should they respond?

Not to say that every response has been just and appropriate... but what do you suggest? It's a messy situation is all I'm getting at. I can tell that you blame Israel more for the conflict. I blame the Palestinians more for rejecting peace over and over again. So what... who cares.

The Palestinians need to take responsibility for stopping the violence on their end (and at least express a willingness to do so under achievable terms) and I believe that the Israelis will do so as well.

[Clovis Sangrail]

50. Israel *does get the lion's share of the blame

but not all of it.

The party most capable of stopping violence is Israel.
They have an army and a navy that operates on their orders and is guilty of violence against the Palestinians.

The Palestinians, from what I can tell, don't have any real kind of govt. and it doesn't have control of an army or navy that is guilty of violence against Israel.

Hamas has become what they are in Gaza because Israel treats the Palestinians like shit.

I agree, it is a messy situation.. but Israel's current course is only going to make it worse.

[Indenturedebtor]

59. So either Hamas was elected or it wasn't

Either blowing up school children is the military action of people without a military or it isn't. Which is it? Many seem to want it both ways.

Israel is acting the way it is because it's been under attack for decades. Just as the Palestinians are acting the way they are for the same reason. Again, what is Israel to do? It does stop violence and try to talk and is attacked again. What do they do?

[Clovis Sangrail]

63. wait... you say they elected Hamas

that was very recently yet you go on to talk about how Israel has been under attack for decades.

I'm not absolving the radical Palestinians.
But the major difference I see between the Palestinians and Israel, as I've said over and over, is Israel is run by an actual govt. that has control over it's forces. The Palestinians are a group of people not a state.

There are multiple factions within Gaza vying for power and prominence.
Punishing all of the Palestinians for what some of them do is really no different than punishing all blacks for X.
In either case you only make the situation worse for yourself and everybody around you.
Israel is doing a good job at proving this.

[LeftishBrit]

67. I agree that collective punishment is unfair and counterproductive...

I also agree that:

'There are multiple factions within Gaza vying for power and prominence.
Punishing all of the Palestinians for what some of them do is really no different than punishing all blacks for X.
In either case you only make the situation worse for yourself and everybody around you.
Israel is doing a good job at proving this.'

But by the same token:

"There are multiple factions within Israel vying for power and prominence.
Punishing random Israeli civilians for what the government does is really no different than punishing all blacks for X.
In either case you only make the situation worse for yourself and everybody around you.
The leadership in Gaza is doing a good job at proving this.'


Both sides frequently act counterproductively. It's not all on one side.

[The Stranger]

24. One side is under military occupation. The other side is occupying them.

Not sure how you want to assign guilt, but those are the facts.

[Indenturedebtor]

26. A gross oversimplification... I'll see yours and raise you one

One side continually ceases hostilities and is rewarded every time with escalating violence.

See how this cycle continues?

Both sides are made up of human beings, and both sides have done wrong. If you disagree with that statement then you might want to question your objectivity/knowledge on the situation.

[katerinasmommy]

34. I couldn't agree more that both sides are guilty

But do you really think that depriving people of food, water, and basic necessities in Gaza is not provocation or a reason for people that might have stayed out of it to join in?

The Israelis are just as guilty of just as much bad judgement and dehumanization as the Palestinians are. And like I said earlier today, the Palestinians are the ones that had their lands taken away, and if you don't believe that you need to talk to some and hear the stories and see the freaking KEYS they still have to houses that don't exist anymore. Read The Lemon Tree. Maybe a lot of Palestinians would be happy enough if they just got some reparations.

[Indenturedebtor]

45. I don't disagree.

On the other hand you have to recognize that the Palestinian leadership sided with the Arabs to "drive them into the sea." There were no removals from houses etc before that. Then things calmed down and again the violence, and so on and so on.

It's sort of like the situation with Mexicans here may one day be if they don't integrate to mainstream WASP culture. There have always been Mexicans in "US territory". One day there are more Mexicans that WASPS. The Mexicans say "Hey lets make Spanish the official language, and have a Mexican government here in the old Mexican Territories." The WASPS try to kill all the Mexicans. The WASPS lose and get driven back to the Mississippi. 10 years later the WASPS attack again and get driven back to New England. Again and again and now they're in New York. The Mexicans now have houses nearly to the border of WASP territory (which maybe they shouldn't have built :shrug:). The WASPS have sworn to kill every Mexican and demand that all Mexicans return to Mexico. Not happening.

Every time the United States of Mexican America loosens restrictions the WASPS start blowing up school busses etc. So they ratchet down more. What do the Mexicans do? They can't even let the WASPS back over the Appalachians because now there are more WASPS than Mexicans. They are willing to give up land to the WASPS so that they can live peacefully but the WASPS want all the land that they lost in their war of aggression. They don't want to kill all the WASPS but they have to have some statement of "Stop killing our people" when the WASPS bomb them with rockets. Again, the WASPS refuse to bring a reasonable offer to the table... it's all or nothing. What do you do? Please tell me.

What a mess. That's how I see it. Flame on!

[katerinasmommy]

56. I don't disagree, but I don't agree either

During the period between World War I and II, during the British Mandate, Zionists (and I am using that phrase not as a perjorative, but as a matter of historical accuracy, it is what they themselves used) were adamant about starting a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

While Palestinians certainly did make some huge mistakes and committed acts of violence, it is also true that farmers were forced out of their homes by the newcomers and that groups like the Irgun committed acts of terrorism against British and Arab alike

It is fair to say that the British bear a great deal of blame in all of this. Palestinians were not considered particularly human and so it was thought acceptable to "give" to Jews a Jewish homeland. And of course people were dispossessed of their homes. The refugee camps didn't spring up because Palestianians just liked it that way.

Some of it was consequence of war. Many Palestinians left running from violence, thinking that they would come back once things were settled. They were not allowed to reclaim their property however, thus leading to the people I have mentioned, the ones that still weep over house keys and foundations of houses that no longer exist. Here in this country, when we to our shame did not give back property to Japanese Americans, eventually we found the miniscule decency to give them some reparations. This is not true in Israel.

I agree that Israel has the right to exist, and the Palestinians have to come to terms with that. It is not fair now to punish those people who were not even born at the time all this transpired. But there needs to be a recognition of the horrible wrong that was done to them during, as they call it, "the catastrophe", and some sort of atonement. It would be a good start just to stop blocking food and necessities to them. Give them their homeland for God's sake. Reach out. That is to both sides. For those that say the bloodletting is somehow necessary to maintain balance, I'd like to ask you, how's that workin' out for ya?

[Indenturedebtor]

61. Farmers weren't forced out until the violence started

I agree that reparations should be made, and I'm nearly entirely certain that they would be if requested as a pathway to peace. The homeland has been offered and rejected as it didn't include half of Jerusalem and half of Israel.

Anyone who says the bloodletting is necessary is insane.

[The Stranger]

51. It is not a "gross oversimplification," it is the starting point, the inescapable underlying problem

that gives rise to any kind of violence. Talking about "cycles" of violence is only talking about the symptoms of occupation, not the problem OF the occupation.

It is essentially to lie to oneself.

[Indenturedebtor]

53. What do they do though? How do they protect themselves and the Palestinians?

It's a Catch 22.

[LeftishBrit]

65. Both sides are made up of human beings, and both sides have done wrong

Fully agree!

Demonizing either side just escalates matters. And sadly each side does too often demonize the other.

I definitely think that in this case Israel was wrong to restrict these students from travelling - but they seem to have changed their minds, perhaps under pressure from Condi Rice who for once seems to have recommended a reasonable action.

[EFerrari]

44. Excuse me? These college students are subject to

mass retribution and you're blaming them?

That's ridiculous.

[Indenturedebtor]

46. Is it "mass retribution" to make people afraid their entire lives of being blown up

everywhere they go? I don't want either population to suffer. And I don't think the poster you're responding to was going after the OP. He and I were discussing the conflict as a whole, as always seem to happen in anything remotely I/P

[EFerrari]

49. A whole population is being punished for the actions of a handful

of violent people.

Yes, it is mass retribution. And I was responding to you.

[Indenturedebtor]

54. It is a fair bit more than a handful. And Hamas was elected

Presumably because the core of their platform is "Death to Israel". It has been more than a handful that have carried out the bombings and the rocket attacks. Again, Israel must primarily be concerned with the protection of it's citizens.

Do you suggest that Israel remove all restrictions and just sit there while it's people die? So that another peace treaty can be slowly rejected? They keep trying that and it literally blows up in their faces. What to do? Seriously, I don't pretend to know either.

[EFerrari]

62. The current Israeli policy is making Israeli citizens LESS safe

because it is creating another generation of angry young people. Bulldozing family homes doesn't get you the high ground. Allowing people to die for lack of medical care is not the fast track to reconciliation. Depriving people of food and water is not a security measure.

[LeftishBrit]

66. Too true...

but I don't think Indenturedebtor was saying anything different.

Both sides have to change, or the situation just gets worse. Every new settlement is an Israeli contribution to the Hamas campaign to stay in power. Every kassam is a Palestinian contribution to the Netanyahu election campaign. Every step in the direction of peace negotiations is at least a step in the direction of peace negotiations.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. They are under Hamas military occupation.

And most of the world does shit upon them, including their "brothers!"

[The Stranger]

23. No, they are Hamas, but the are under Israeli military occupation.

Everyone on the planet but you seems to have accepted this fact.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. "Everyone on the planet but you seems to have accepted this fact."

I doubt it, as it is not fact.

[The Stranger]

52. In fact, Israel once SUPPORTED Hamas when it SUITED the Israeli government to undermine Fatah.

There's another fact for you that everyone seems to want to have been forgotten.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. And?

I don't dispute that. It is a fact. It doesn't prove your other post is anything more than an assertion/opinion and not a fact.

[midnight]

2. So glad to hear that this has been corrected. It seems that

getting an education keeps getting harder and harder. Then you think about getting an education in the Gaza strip.

[barbtries]

16. i heard the story on democracy now

this is good news, and only fair. geez.

[UndertheOcean]

25. Why do they need Israeli Visas to get out ? I though Israel is "not"

occupying Gaza anymore

[Behind the Aegis]

30. They need visas to travel through Israel...

...much the same way I need one to travel almost anywhere in the world.

[UndertheOcean]

37. Why do they need to travel through Israel ?

[Behind the Aegis]

38. To get to the airport?

Why can't they travel through Egypt?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UndertheOcean]

47. Because Israel won't allow them ?

[Behind the Aegis]

48. Does Gaza not share a border with Egypt?

[Clovis Sangrail]

32. they're not occupying it anymore

They just prevent air traffic, prevent maritime traffic, and restrict visas to 'humanitarian' cases.

[katerinasmommy]

35. They aren't occupying Gaza

They are just surrounding it and using it as a reservation

[LeftishBrit]

64. Good news!