Carter Denied Security During Israel Visit

[Ganja Ninja]

Source: Reuters

Israel's secret service has declined to assist U.S. agents guarding former U.S. President Jimmy Carter during a visit.
Monday, April 14, 2008

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's secret service has declined to assist U.S. agents guarding former U.S. President Jimmy Carter during a visit in which Israeli leaders have shunned him, U.S. sources close to the matter said on Monday.

Carter angered the Israeli government with plans to meet Hamas's top leader, Khaled Meshaal, in Syria, and for describing Israeli policy in the occupied Palestinian territories as "a system of apartheid" in a 2006 book.

The Nobel Peace Prize winner, who brokered Israel's first peace treaty with an Arab neighbor, Egypt, signed in 1979, met Israel's largely ceremonial president, Shimon Peres, on Sunday but was shunned by the political leadership, including Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Another source described the snub as an "unprecedented" breach between the Israeli Shin Bet and the U.S. Secret Service, which protects all current and former U.S. presidents, as well as Israeli leaders when they visit the United States.

http://www.880therevolution.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=3532797

Read more: http://www.880therevolution.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=3532797

[OregonBlue]

1. And our State Department is okay with that?

[Supersedeas]

4. the Justice Dept is partisan as they come--why wouldn't Condi's Dept be the same or worse

[OregonBlue]

13. If Carter was attacked or god forbid killed in Israel, it wouldn't bode well for

this Administration that they didn't insist that he be protected!!!

[marshall]

47. Didn't they also insist that he not go?

They would be in an awkward situation if they asked a foreign government to protect him on a trip that wasn't authorized and that he was told not to go on.

[druidity33]

90. i think

they asked him to rethink his meeting with the Hamas leader... not necessarily not to go.


:shrug:

[lark]

78. Does anything, ever, bode well for this administration

Are they even capable of doing ANYTHING right? I've not seen any evidence at all of compentency or even humanity from this bunch. They are just pure evil incarnate.

[still_one]

27. Probably not, but the US secret service and other US security are there to try and protect him

[xxqqqzme]

68. They probably arranged it!

[barbtries]

119. it's probably at the request of our state dept

bastards.

[bemildred]

2. How soon we forget our friends when they don't do as we say. nt

[asjr]

3. And vice-versa.

[bemildred]

9. Yes! Damn him for trying to bring peace to Israel!

How dare he!

[shance]

112. Please Bemildred. Carter wrote an honest/some would say even too mild criticism of Israel.

And now they are not providing him security.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Rabin was a man of peace too.

I hope nothing happens to Carter while he's in Israel.

[ooglymoogly]

123. If anything is going to happen to Carter on this trip

the M0ssad would make sure it happens in Palestine which they control.

[Sinistrous]

6. Retaliation for Carter's recent book, "Peace not Apartheid".

Nice, mature response by Israel.

[peacetalksforall]

26. Exactly. Another reason not to support the current leaders of Israel.

I am grateful to know that not all Israelis support their leaders just as we can't support ours. Let those brazen war mongers together make their mess or wake up.

What a pair - the Cheney kingdom and the Israeli (whatever it is named) kingdom.

I have no respect for this act and a whole bucket full of other acts by the leaders of Israel.

I hold Carter as a treasure in my ideals for humanity.

[anitar1]

91. How about the kingdom of greed ? They suck up billions of tax

payers dollars every year plus all of the weapons the US give them. We pay for all of that.

[Dan]

149. Former President Carter

is truly a national treasure.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

84. This was a best seller in Israel, and well received.

Only the most land + War hungry Likudnics were against it (and they got AIPAC and Jerkowitz and others to start their own local tirades here).

Most Israelis thought it was a very fair, and very insightful, and personal view. He made a lot of friends with that book IN ISRAEL.

[peacetalksforall]

114. I end so many of my messages with a question - where are the peacemakers

and here we have one - travelling and trying to talk when he could stay home and the damn leaders of Israel are playing cheapie games just like our leaders. Does anyone need any more proof that the partners in war ONLY WANT MORE WAR - THEY HAVEN'T MADE ENOUGH MONEY YET. All we have is proof - we can't sleep at night, we only have fun and joke because it was there in our lives one day and we're still running on momentum, but these partners have made life hell. And way too many know it and can't end it. We are paralyzed in our expectations -that it will be OK. Along comes Carter - and the Israeli leaders screw around.

Tell everyone what the Israeli leaders did to him and tell them that it is not everyone in Israel who feels the same.

[rateyes]

7. Go anyway, Jimmy.

You've been one of Israel's best friends. If that is how they want to treat you, then screw 'em.

[madrchsod]

8. no one is going to touch carter

the israeli government is no friend of the people of this country

[Malikshah]

10. Should he be "Lord Moyne-ed" or "Bernadotte-ed" there will be

hell to pay. Nov 1995, folks. Rabin at a Peace Rally.

This is shameful.

[bean fidhleir]

20. No, the only hell will be paid by us, same as when that spook ship was attacked

and our navy guys killed.

[Ganja Ninja]

31. Exactly.

He's in as much or more danger from Israeli extremists then he is from Hamas or any other Palestinian group.

[Irishonly]

11. Carter Wants Peace

He doesn't go along with war mongering agendas. I only hope neither our secret service nor the Israeli government is stupid enough to let anything happen to him.

[Counciltucky]

96. Yeah but why would anyone want to see BOTH sides of the story?

That would require, you know, critical analysis.

[Divernan]

12. This will further lower the rest of the world's opinion of Israel.

[Baby Snooks]

33. And the rest of the world's opinion of the United States...

No doubt AIPAC and the "chickenshit hawks" in Congress will applaud the action of Israel and further fuel the situation. Reality is for over 50 years we have done very well by the "war" in the Mideast - the bottom line is that there is no profit in peace. And that is what the world most likely will finally see.

To willfully deny security to a former president of an ally says all that needs to be said finally about Israel as well as AIPAC and its supporters in Congress.

We talk about democracy and yet when a democratic vote elects a person or party we don't like, suddenly we no longer talk about democracy.

The United States should have put the 1947 Partition Plan on the table a long time ago and told Israel, and everyone else, to take it or leave it.

Better to declare war on Palestine the state if it were to attack Israel than declare war on Palestinians the people and we have consistently done the latter. Just as we do everywhere else. Including Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither of which ever threatened us or attacked us. So there was no basis to declare war on Afghanistan or Iraq. Which in fact we didn't. We declared war on the people instead. And told them to take it or leave it. While not telling Israel and its people the same thing.

Israel is the wild card we always pull out of the deck in the Middle East but we don't pull it to protect Isreal. Which Israel doesn't realize.

[shance]

86. What does the US have to do with it? Israel is the one denying security.

n/t

[Baby Snooks]

101. We have "taken sides"

Hamas is the democratically elected representative of the Palestinians and whether we like it or not, that is the reality. We provide funds and weapons to Israel - Israel dares to say it will not protect a US president? The same president who brokered the peace agreement between Israel and Egypt and would like to broker one between the Palestinians and the Israelis?

What's the difference between an Israeli terrorist and a Palestinian terrorist? None.

[TacticalPeek]

14. Bastards.

:grr:

[Benhurst]

15. And we give how much foreign aid to Israel?

Time to stop giving money to a nation which acts like this and provides health care to its citizens when ours have squat.

[biglake]

16. Al Gore could offer to "go with" Jimmy-a crowd- that would be a cool statement!

Or Obama, or Hillary????????

It is shameful and they need a crowd to make this statement.

[acmavm]

17. It is WAY PAST THE TIME when we should just cut Israel loose

and tell them to go it alone.

Of course they don't want anyone talking to anyone else. How else could the Israeli government continally play the martyr card?

[mnhtnbb]

24. Gee, what no outrage over such an anti-Semitic suggestion?

:sarcasm:

[acmavm]

49. I'm not an anti-Semite. I AM an anti-ZIONIST

[sellitman]

117. One in the same.

Typical and discusting

[bow-tie]

56. I agree with you completely

We should be giving the money going into the "you owe us" israelis and give it to the Iraqis who we really do owe for the damage we've done. Israel, we owe you nothing.

[Maineman]

77. And I agree with you. Israel is

Israel is pulling most of the strings. How many times has the US vetoed in the UN reasonable condemnations of Israel's unreasonable actions?? Our blind, undying loyalty to Israel is crazy. I heard from a Palestinian that the problem is not primarily the Jewish people. It is primarily the Israeli government. Hmm. I guess we have a lot in common with Israel, I after all.

[lark]

79. AIPAC owns us

or at least they own our legislatures.

[NorthCarolina]

89. Israel and AIPAC represent too good of a Money Laundering scheme

for DC fat cats. The US gives billions of our taxpayer dollars to Israel annually, and a good hunk of that cash is turned over to AIPAC who uses it to "Lobby" our government officials. Who in DC besides maybe a Kucinich or a Ron Paul is going to jeopardize a great system like that?

[LeftishBrit]

98. This post is wrong on several grounds...

(1) Whatever you think of AIPAC, it's an American organization, not an Israeli one, so taxpayers' money 'to Israel' is *not* funding it; (2) there are loads of lobbies that influence politicians and AIPAC is not all-powerful; (3) Kucinich is a good man, but Ron Paul is at best a lunatic and at worst a monster of pure RW evil; and Carter deserves better than to have his name even mentioned in the same breath as such a loathsome creature!!!

[Divernan]

18. Need 1 more R for the greatest page, please

[Voice for Peace]

29. You don't need it any more but I'm giving it anyway. This is a stupid move by Israel.

[smiley_glad_hands]

19. Israel is a political football.

Try and have some positive influence on creating peace there and you will be called anti semitic by the other party. Mind you both sides do this.

[Timothy Gatto]

21. Why Shouldn't Carter Meet With Hamas

You certainly can't get peace if nobody is talking to each other.

[OKthatsIT]

161. But is peace the objective...it doesn't look like it.

Carter is either part of the plan or he isn't.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sasquatch]

23. I say we should short them the next time the surrounding Arab nations want to attack

Jackasses.

[still_one]

25. It isn't right, but keep in mind OUR Secret Service and security are protecting Carter

[ToughLuck]

28. Israel should not be allowed to get away with this, many of their own people want to negotiate with

Hamas...its our stupid approach here too that does no good. Obama saying he wouldn't speak with Hamas was a HUGE mistake too. When is this bullshit going to end??? GO CARTER!!!!!! God bless that man.

[lark]

80. Carter's the best x-president EVER

He's revered by the people in South America and by any clear thinking American. He's a true hero.

[DutchLiberal]

105. Well, it's not like he has much competition...

[Divine Discontent]

152. NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!!!

Good one, indeed!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[FourScore]

30. This is abominable!

[Faygo Kid]

53. Perfect response. Couldn't agree more.

I'm speechless. Which doesn't happen often.

[garthranzz]

32. Hamas in action

Educating the young

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6WHdWgES-Uw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6lbFGC4&feature=related

Negotiating

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tVh-WxTS-H0&feature=related

[Ganja Ninja]

38. Of course we don't dress our kids up in uniforms and march them

around. We're more high tech. We give them paint ball guns and video games.

[garthranzz]

43. Ah, yes, our KINDERGARTEN GRADUATIONS CELEBRATE GENOCIDE

or CRUSADES or JIHAD or whatever you want to call mass exterminations based on religion or ethnicity.

Yep, no moral difference at all.

:puke:

[Ganja Ninja]

44. Yes why can't they be civilized and do their killing from ...

behind a computer screen with the click of a mouse?

[garthranzz]

50. Here we go round the mulberry bush

and it 'twasn't even brillig

[iamthebandfanman]

51. depends on where ya go

i suggest you watch the documentary 'jesus camp'

[ExPatLeftist]

58. Who, exactly, celebrates genocide?

It is easy to connect images and videos with entire groups of people to whom they don't apply. The people doing the things that you talk about are a tiny minority of Palestinians, and Israel kills many innocent people that are not connected to any of that. Please also do not forget the history and the sense of desperation in the case of the Palestinians. To me, nothing on either side excuses them to not simply stop killing, today, but we need to understand the situation and the history.

The fact is that Israel kills a lot more innocent Palestinians than vice versa. "Collateral damage" sounds so much better than "lots of dead babies", though.

[fascisthunter]

67. bigotry in action

good catch

[darue]

142. yeah, we got our genocide out of the way early

for decades our children ran around pretending to kill Indians

[DesertFlower]

70. deplorable. how can there ever

be peace when they indoctrinate their young to hate?

[DutchLiberal]

108. Check 'Jesus Camp' in your own country first.

[DutchLiberal]

106. Middle America in action: indoctrinating the young:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNfL6IVWCE

Kid: "We're being trained to be God's army."

Instructor: "How many of you are willing to give up your life for Jesus?"

Instructor: "This means war! This means war!"

[garthranzz]

34. hamas in action

Education:

http://www.youtube.com/v/6WHdWgES-Uw&hl=en

http://www.youtube.com/v/gi-c6lbFGC4&hl=en

Negotiation:

http://www.youtube.com/v/tVh-WxTS-H0&hl=en

[Botany]

35. Some Israelis are a burden to mid east peace too.

How many billions of dollars of U.S. aid and weapons did Israel get
when Carter was President?

[4dsc]

36. Showing their true face I see

Why is anybody surprised by this move.. Israel is showing the world that they will CRAP on anyone at any time..

[still_one]

69. First of all U.S. secret service is there to protect Carter, and I am not condoning Israel

refusing to provide its security, however it is much more complicated

From Israel's perspective Hamas vows the destruction of Israel, and has sent missles into Israel, which resulted as casulties

From Hamas's perspective, Israel has taken their land

The only way this situation will be solved is through negotiations on both sides. Jimmy Carter has every right to meet with whoever he wants, but has no power to accomplish anything

After Bill Clinton left office, there was an opportunity for the bush administration to take over where the Clinton administration left off in continuing the negotiations between with Israellis and the Palestinians. We all know what happened. In fact, the bush administration did EVERYTHING to prevent continued negotiations, and encouraged Israel to allow the illegal settlements

They did a similar thing with North and South Korea. When the Sunshine talks were taking place between the North and the South, the bush administration pressured the South to stop the dialog

They stepped in when Syria and Israel were having talks, pressuring Israel to stop the dialog

No side is innocent in any of these matters, but one thing is clear, the U.S. IS NOT AN HONEST BROKER

The only solution is a two state solution, with security guarenteed for both.

[LeftishBrit]

99. Great post!

[Zorra]

37. How childish can you get? nt

[mogster]

39. Link to reuters/yahoo news article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080414/pl_nm/israel_carter_dc

[undeterred]

40. Jimmy Carter has more real courage in his little finger

than all the chickenhawks in the whole world.

[DutchLiberal]

109. Nonsense. Why didn't he show that courage when he was in power?

[LeftishBrit]

121. Huh? He did a lot of work for Middle East peace then!

[DutchLiberal]

163. Yes, but what did he do for the Palestinians when he was in office?

He did nothing.

[timtom]

157. Based on your posts on this thread

you seem to have a very superficial and shallow grasp of recent history.

Insofar as your posts seem acerbic and obstructionist in nature, I'm putting you on ignore.

[DutchLiberal]

164. Thank you. That was the most useless and nonsubstantial reply I've ever gotten.

Next time, throw in some facts to support your claims.

[mikelewis]

160. I would suggest you take the opportunity to actually read Palestine:Peace not Aparteid...

You may get a better view of one real American treasure. In this book he lays out the truth about what is really going on in the middle east and offers honest and reasonable assessments of what steps can be taken on all sides of the issue to end the conflicts... just as he has done throughout his career and spiritual life. It is a shame that all you know of this wonderful person is what Republicans peddle to you through your TV... I encourage you to discover the real Jimmy Carter. Your local library will have an audio recording of the book which you can burn to your Ipod or MP3 player for listening at your leisure. I strongly urge you to do so before you start spouting Republican talking points that are in no way indicative of this blessed soul.

[DutchLiberal]

165. 'Republican talking points'? Has the smear campaign against critics started already?

It is a shame that all you know of this wonderful person is what Republicans peddle to you through your TV.

You don't know the slightest thing about me and this quote shows it. What you're writing is an absolute travesty and couldn't be further from the truth.

But what do I care what you think of me in your delusional mind? I was talking about what Carter did when he was in office, and you mention a book he has written *25 years after* he left office. Since it seems I need to instruct you in the basics of argumentation, you come off rather silly making assumptions about what I do or don't know.

[mikelewis]

166. Yes, your statements show you have no idea what you are talking about...

From your post what you have shown is that all you know is what the TV has told you and you have made it clear that you know nothing about Jimmy Carter. Criticism is fine... blanket and ignorant criticism just makes you look stupid and petty. For instance, stating a disagreement with Carters decision to allow Brezinski to destabilize and radicalize Afghanistan as a tactical move in the cold war is a criticism... Calling him a coward is just petty and stupid and that is all that you have shown. Grow up and read a book from time to time... who knows, you may just learn something.

[DutchLiberal]

169. Nonsense. I've studied the Carter-period extensively. My findings just don't match your point o'view

That's why you try to smear me with unsubstantiated claims about me, without knowing even the slightest thing about me.

[mikelewis]

170. Dammit, just my luck, I had to go and pick a fight with a Carter era expert..

My oh my... how slandered you must feel... that a mere ignorant peon like myself would dare to question the intelligence of a well learned Carter era expert such as yourself must be galling beyond belief. I daresay, had I realized that your post wasn't completely idiotic but was truly brilliant, I could have saved my self such a mental trouncing. Bravo, clever Carter expert, you... bravo... clearly you have won... Carter must be a fucking coward because you say so... sorry, I thought you were just an ignorant fuck. No hard feelings, okay?

[DutchLiberal]

171. More slander, again no facts, again no substantial challenges to my posts...

*yawn*

[humbled_opinion]

41. Great lets keep up the

Anti Israel rhetoric... nothing like losing the Jewish Democrat Voting block right before the general election....

[bemildred]

42. If they want McCain, they can have McCain.

I'm not going to be bullied any more on this issue.

[humbled_opinion]

100. Yeah thats the ticket let the Repukes have the WH

for a generations...You know what why don't we just dissolve the Democratic party altogether after this Primary Campaign and the fits of our elders it is apparent that we are all singing to a different tune anymore.

[bemildred]

115. No, I didn't say that.

I said any Jewish voter that wants McCain can vote for him. I'm not going to change my vote based on the speculation that somehow those few voters could turn the tide in the 2008 GE. A lot of people will vote for the Democrat, whomever that might be, because they promise to stop being lunatics about the Middle East. We could even pick up a big vote from americans of Middle Eastern extraction. The notion that we would lose the GE to McCain over this is ridiculous.

[humbled_opinion]

134. Oh I see you obviously haven't been ...

paying much attention lately with the perfect storm brewing... enough Democratic voters are going to feel alienated when we finally get a nominee... many will not be able to join hands again because this campaign is bloddy.

[bemildred]

144. Or, you could be wrong about that. nt

[humbled_opinion]

167. Whats worse...

My being wrong about it or you being wrong about it?

Enough Said.

[bemildred]

168. I expect we will find out, eh? nt

[bagrman]

59. I would think that the Demo Jewish voters know the difference between,

The Torah Jewish people and their Zionist government. You can't tell me that all Israelites think like their government.

[lark]

81. My aunt married a peace loving Israeli

who feels about his government the exact way I feel about Bushco's regime. They're all a bunch of crony capitalist who are in it for power and money and LIKE to hurt others to increase their own lot in life.

[Raksha]

141. You don't understand...even now, "Zionist" isn't a dirty word

to liberal Jews. Most of us still consider ourselves Zionists--a word which has come to be synonymous with "Israeli imperialism." It did NOT always mean that! I'm old enough to remember when a Zionist was someone who believed Israel should be the homeland of the Jewish people...PERIOD! It's entirely possible to be pro-peace, anti-imperialism and pro-human rights for ALL people without being anti-Zionist.

I favor a two-state solution, which is obviously the only thing that will ever work.

It pains me no end to see over and over again: "I'm not anti-Semitic but I'm anti-Zionist." I don't blame the people who say that because I understand what motivates them. I blame the unholy alliance of American and Israeli neocons for creating an environment where peace has become impossible. Too much profit in war, I guess.

[LeftishBrit]

156. Agreed

There are lots of left-wing Zionists - I'm one!

I agree that a two-state solution is the only real one.

[Raksha]

131. Ummm...here's one Jewish Democrat who's voting for Obama!

Screw AIPAC and the Likud regressives. So Hamas is "the enemy"...you don't make peace with your FRIENDS, fer cryin' out loud!

[demnan]

45. Time to cut off Federal funding for Israel

n/t

[shance]

88. Does anyone know what that funding actually goes to specifically fund anyway?

n/t

[scarletwoman]

92. Mainly weapons. Israel is a goldmine for for our weapons manufacturers.

We send Israel millions (or is it billions?) of dollars, which they in turn spend on our weaponry: bombs, munitions, fighter jets, etc.

It's a lovely closed loop system that makes a select few very rich and powerful.

sw

[Malikshah]

145. Here's a CRS Report from 2005

http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/IB85066.pdf

Not sure of more recent numbers, etc.

[Postman]

46. No security to protect him from who, radicals in Hamas? I'd think they would welcome him....

Maybe it's the rabid rightwing Israeli's they're not protecting him from?

[entanglement]

48. A new low for the Israeli political class

[bow-tie]

57. "Political Class"

It's ridiculous we have to walk on eggs with our speech when Israel comes up, or else "Anti-Semite" is screamed from the rafters. Remember the USS Liberty.

[leveymg]

52. Shin Bet does a selective job of VIP protection, anyway, Re: Yitzhak Rabin, 04NOV95

They were dramatically more professional protecting Ariel Sharon.

[mitchum]

54. Well then, we should cut off their GENEROUS allowance

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bagrman]

61. We don't prop them up they are one of the richest countries in the world.

It's like us giving the oil companies a tax break.

[NoodleyAppendage]

66. REALLY? Then we can stop the billions in annual aid we send to them?

This is great news. If they are not being supported or propped-up, then it's high time to cut off the aid that they so deperately lobby for every year in Washington.

J

[bagrman]

118. See what happens when your well connected. The US citizens need and AIPAC

[ExPatLeftist]

72. $10 million A DAY

is a helluva crutch.

And much of it goes to weapons that kill innocents.

Maybe if they have to foot the bill for their own terrorist acts they will at least scale it back.

[Deny and Shred]

94. ExPat, great article, great graph, great quotes. The skewed coverage blows

My wrist is killing me, but I was moved to type.

"Anti-semitism and anti-Zionism are two very different things." That plus the coverage discrepancy sum up my POV tidily.

"Terrorism is war for the poor and war is terrorism for the rich."
Great quote.

I'll keep reading your stuff

[ExPatLeftist]

130. Thanks!

I hope your wrist gets better.

[mmonk]

60. Sometimes, bravery is needed in trying to achieve peace.

[defendandprotect]

62. These neo-con fascist Israelis/our Israelis are probably still bitter over the

first peace treaty with Egypt --- !!!

[defendandprotect]

63. As someone once said . . . "Peace is harder than war" . .. !!!!

[NoodleyAppendage]

64. How about we deny the Israeli/US WELFARE STATE the billons we send in aid?

They can't protect a former President, then we can't muster the US TAXPAYER DOLLARS to support their bellicose government.

J

[G Gordon Libby]

65. Here's a good one:

“A senior Israeli official said “scheduling problems” was the official reason given for the high-profile snub — even though Olmert recently took time to chat with “Prison Break” star Wentworth Miller.”

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ExPatLeftist]

74. Unfortunately there have been many similarities for decades. n/t

[Dukkha]

73. The only country that equals America in arrogance

They both consistently derail peace negotiations and diplomacy to maintain their strong arm bullying stance. They'd rather waive the bayonet then the olive branch.

[connecticut yankee]

75. They're a bunch of vindictive bastards

don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.

[ExPatLeftist]

76. Why does the US continue to veto UN resolutions

directed at Israel, for acts equating to terrorism?

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[guyanakoolaid]

83. Do you mean Isael's illegal nuclear program? "Well, never mind that, here's some pictures of Iran...

since we proved in the run-up to Iraq that none of you know what the hell reconnaissance photos of weapons facilities look like - trust us, look at these pictures of Iran. Ignore the very real malice and nuclear proliferation being perpetrated by Israel and listen to us. You trust us still, right?" :evilgrin:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[sandrakae]

85. FUCKING UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!

[treestar]

87. Egads, are they run by a bunch of teenagers?

This is their way of "punishing" Carter for saying something they cannot stomach?

[jwlashta]

93. With the amount of protection given to the Israelis

by America over the years, you would think that the Israeli government should do something to aide Carter, even if they do not like who he will be talking to.

Hell, if it weren't for America, there would not be an Israeli state (meaning it would have been wiped off of the map a long time ago).

[BlooInBloo]

95. Wow. Sounds like something America would do.

[LeftishBrit]

97. That's a pity; but don't former presidents get lots of security staff wherever they go anyway?

Certainly Bush had better hope that they do, or he won't be able to go anywhere - no one's going to put themselves out to give him security!

As regards Carter, I respect him for making this attempt. I doubt that he can influence Meshaal - others e.g. from Russia have tried in the past - but at least he's trying for peace, and I really hope he succeeds!

[tabasco]

102. How many goddamn $$BILLIONS$$ have we given these assholes???

This is inexcusable behavior from a so-called "ally."

Fuck these neocon / Likud assholes to hell!

[DutchLiberal]

103. I wish Carter had shown the same balls when he was in power...

He's just another politician who only dares to speak out after he left the office in which he had a chance to actually make a difference.

[shance]

110. I think he wanted to stay alive.

Until Americans begin protecting and defending their leaders (like JFK), we will continue to have cowards and opportunists.

For the record I don't believe Carter was either of those descriptives.

In fact I thought he did show some courage....and as a consequence it mired his presidency.

Americans need to become more educated as to who actually runs the president(s).

[DutchLiberal]

113. But what's the sense in having a president if he's not going to act according to his beliefs?

Why are you all getting so excited over electing Obama or Clinton as president if he/she, according to your argument, can't do anything they believe in out of fear?

[Art_from_Ark]

124. What the hell are you talking about?

During his Presidency, Carter brokered a peace between Egypt and Israel that helped him win the Nobel Peace Prize.

During his Presidency, Carter promoted human rights in his foreign policy far more than any of his successors.

In 1979-80, when others were calling for war with Iran over the hostages, Carter showed restraint.

Carter has been by far the most courageous President of the last 40 years.

[DutchLiberal]

162. As president, did Carter ever spoke about "Apartheid" in the Israeli-occupied areas?

As president, did Carter do anything to promote the Palestinian case?

The answers to both questions is no.

[New Dawn]

104. We need to stop funding that regime!

[MercutioATC]

116. I completely agree.

[heliarc]

107. Just shows how unbiased and committed to peace Israel is... nt

[muntrv]

111. Obviously, the Israeli govt. wants Carter dead.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ExPatLeftist]

136. "THE Palestinian stance"

That simple set of three words sums up your bias nicely.

As with everywhere else in the world, individuals in Palestine have individual views.

It might be convenient for you to lump all Palestinians under the worst you know of Hamas, but you would be wrong. Most are just people trying to live their lives, like everywhere else. Until they end up as "collateral damage" that is.

BTW if you do not like any of the stats in this thread, please feel free to refute them with facts. The imaginary country thing is not really working. But while you are talking hypotheticals, perhaps you could try to imagine someone coming into your family home, throwing you out and forcing you to live in a refugee camp after they bulldoze your home and build a new one in its place. Try to imagine your new home then being blown to rubble by a missile intended to kill some nut that happens to live near you. Imagine the missile rips your family to shreds in front of your face. Imagine the kind of payback that you might want. The kind of payback that so many Americans wanted on 9/11, even those not directly involved.

The media creates the images in our minds of the suicide bomber that senselessly kills innocent people. And it neatly allows us to surmise that "those people" are like this. Not true. There are small groups of nuts everywhere. That does not give anyone the right to blow up entire buildings full of people trying to get at them.

There have been over 70 UN Resolutions since 1955 addressing illegal actions and breaches of the Geneva Conventions committed by Israel. Though many were vetoed by the US, they are not without warrant. The demonization of Palestinians as all terrorists or simply talking about Hamas and not the countless others that do not support Hamas is a huge part of the problem. Ignoring the plight of the Palestinian people is another. I hope that you will try to see that the people there are individuals, not the masses of terrorists that they are portrayed as in the media.

[LeftishBrit]

155. I agree that there is no such thing as THE Palestinian stance...

but similarly there is no such thing as THE Israeli stance.

'The demonization of Palestinians as all terrorists or simply talking about Hamas and not the countless others that do not support Hamas is a huge part of the problem. Ignoring the plight of the Palestinian people is another. I hope that you will try to see that the people there are individuals, not the masses of terrorists that they are portrayed as in the media.'

I agree with every word of this. But similarly the demonization of Israelis as all warmongerers and Likud-supporters and using 'Zionist' as practically a swear word is also a huge part of the problem.

Not implying that you said this - I'm just using your post because you pointed out that one should not paint one side with a broad brush as though they're not individuals; and I fully agree, but want to emphasize that it applies to both sides!

[ExPatLeftist]

159. I agree

That not all Israelis are warmongers and have met many that are not. In fact, most that I have met are not.

The unfortunate difference, however, between Israel and Palestine is that the government of Israel takes part in the killing - the elected government of that nation, while the acts of "the Palestininas" are acts of individuals or fringe groups which do not represent the people. Israel acts similarly to the US government which takes it upon themselves to kill tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis "for the greater good".

Also, the images and stories in the media show us innocent and sobbing Israelis all the time, and show us how peaceful many of them are, while the same media paint a picture of Palestinians as training children to murder and killing innocents with suicide bombs. I do not think that many people have much problem with viewing the Israelis as individuals, many of whom are peaceful. But the opposite is often not true (as evidenced by some of the posts here), and that is the disconnect that I am trying to address.

[ExPatLeftist]

137. multiple post n/t

[ExPatLeftist]

138. ...and a compter freakout n/t

[clixtox]

153. Yes, truly astonishing...

and with your additional horse shit and bullshit, the smell emanating from the apologists for the reigning Israeli fascists is getting absolutely sickening.

Your hypocritical, ignorant, and inflammatory comments indicate the shallowness of your intellectual powers.

It would be best to stay silent if contributing your thoughts results in such vapid prose.

Just saying...

[Kurovski]

122. Bratty little shitbags. Cut off their fucking allowance.

Contemptible fuss-pot fuckheads.

[ShaneGR]

125. This one is simple, they don't want him visiting with Hamas leaders......

Simple as that. It's extremely unsafe for a former American President to travel into those areas.

[number6]

126. In my view Israel doesn't want Peace

another sign

[Peggy Day]

127. If anything happens to him, there will be hell to pay.

[Poll_Blind]

128. Shitty. Little. Country. eom

PB

[Hotler]

129. This makes me cry.

The cold, cold lack of respect toward a man such as President Carter. He has more heart and soul than a paddy wagon full of neocons. What is so wrong with wanting peace and prosperity for everyone???

[Doctor_J]

132. * is not only the worst president ever, he is a despicable human being

barely human, a miserable piece of filth who, if there is any justice in the world, will be convicted of war crimes and rot in prison for 30 years.

[unkachuck]

133. this terrible nexus....

....between the right in this country and Israel is getting dangerous....

"Israel's secret service has declined to assist U.S. agents guarding former U.S. President Jimmy Carter..."....and we're ok with this?

....hey, what President Carter, Begin and Sadat put down 30 years ago is still holding....what have you schmucks done for peace lately?

[pjt7]

135. Is Israel begging to lose the Billions we give them?

65% of their own population understand that you have to deal with the bad guy's to go forward.

[tom_paine]

148. Are you kidding, the Bushies will probably INCREASE aid for this.

Hell, the Bushies may be preparing to Bhutto/Wellstone/Kennedy/King/Rabin him and thus the Israeli Bushies were told to step aside.

[razors edge]

139. And just how much is a dead president worth

when you need a distraction?

Especially one you hate.

I doubt anyone would give them the opening to exploit, but that doesn't rule out a black flag job.

[bonito]

140. Not to give peace a chance

Is always wrong long term or short, that opportunity is a lost one as our loved ones might not survive.

[Wizard777]

143. No more aid to Israel!

[bonito]

146. = no more aid to you and I as well

Along with Muslims.

Until we can realize we all live under the same sky on the same planet in the same solar system, the same universe, we're fucked period.

[tom_paine]

147. As a Jew, this makes me sick. Israel is now also run by Evil Bushies.

Let there be no doubt or mistake. Apparently, we Jews are not immune from kissing the feet of Nazi-types.

(think that's hyperbole?...click on the link to see that it is NOT!)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

I had the feeling this was the case when Israel attacked Lebanon at Bushie Command.

Now I am sure.

What a bad time for all of humanity!

[Mind_your_head]

150. What a TRULY tough group, eh? eom

[bbgrunt]

151. Despicable and ominous.

[Mozcram]

154. Does anyone know why Israel's government so often acts with

All the wisdom and generosity of a small child having a tantrum?

[LeftishBrit]

158. Perhaps because that's the nature of governments everywhere?

[BlueIris]

172. And I still say this is fucked up, right here.

Just terrible.