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War Stories Echo an Earlier Winter (Wash Post Covers Winter Soldier Testimony)

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:03 AM
Original message
War Stories Echo an Earlier Winter (Wash Post Covers Winter Soldier Testimony)
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:48 AM by Hissyspit
Source: Washington Post

War Stories Echo an Earlier Winter

By Steve Vogel
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 15, 2008; Page B01

The stories spilled out, sometimes haltingly, sometimes in a rush: soldiers firing indiscriminately on Iraqi vehicles, an apartment building filled with Iraqi families devastated by an American gunship. Some descriptions were agonized, some vague; others offered specific dates and locations. All were recorded and streamed live to the Web.

The four-day event, "Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan -- Eyewitness Accounts of the Occupations," is sponsored by Iraq Veterans Against the War and is expected to draw more than 200 veterans of the two wars through tomorrow. Timed for the eve of the fifth anniversary of the war's start next week, organizers hope the soldiers' accounts will galvanize public opposition.

For some of the veterans speaking yesterday, the experience was catharsis.

Former Marine Jon Turner began his presentation by ripping his service medals off his shirt and tossing them into the first row. He then narrated a series of graphic photographs showing bloody victims and destruction, bringing gasps from the audience. In a matter-of-fact voice, he described episodes in which he and fellow Marines shot people out of fear or retribution. "I'm sorry for the hate and destruction I've inflicted upon innocent people," Turner said. "Until people hear about what is happening in this war, it will continue."

- snip -

Organizers said they have sought to verify the records of all soldiers speaking, including reviewing their service records and talking to other members of units. Some soldiers had videos and photographs, which were displayed yesterday on a large screen in the auditorium.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...



NEWS VIDEO AT LINK

LIVE VIDEO FROM IVAW.ORG:

Go to http://www.ivaw.org

To watch this feed full screen, open Quicktime 7, select "Open URL" from the File menu, and enter rtsp://qtlive.dvlabs.com/ivaw.sdp

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Counter-protesters:
"Kerry lied while good men died, and you guys are betraying good men," the man yelled. The protester was roughly hustled from the room by several men in red knit shirts and jeans -- members of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, who are providing security for the event.

Counter-protesters outside derided the event and were deeply skeptical of the claims being made inside. "We want absolute specifics," said Harry Riley, a retired Army colonel who leads Eagles Up!. "This is too important to our nation. The credibility of our nation and the credibility of our soldiers are involved."

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Gonnuts Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. and there are those that still deny the holocaust
in war all the worst traits of man surface, to deny these crimes are being committed means you are either naive to the point of imbecile proportions or you're a dye-hard fascist.

I might add that the statement bush made about being a soldier fighting over there now must be "romantic" at the same time these hearings are going on sets a standard of hubris, arrogance and gall that would seem to make all before it pale by comparison. It is times like this that one feels they could march into the White House, shoving all out of the way, gab this pathetic piss-ant and bitch-slap him down Pennsylvania Ave. into these testimonies and strap him to a chair so he listen to just how romantic his fucking wars really are.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. More testimony:
"These are not bad people, not criminals and not monsters," said Cliff Hicks, 23, a former 1st Armored Division soldier from Savannah, Ga., who spoke about his experiences in Iraq. "They are people being put in horrible situations, and they reacted horribly."
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. Adam Kokesh:
Adam Kokesh, a student at George Washington University who served with the Marine Corps in Iraq, said Marines were often forced to make snap decisions about whether to fire on civilians.

"During the siege of Fallujah, we changed our rules of engagement more often than we changed our underwear," he said.

On the screen, a photograph showed him posing next to a burned-out car in which an Iraqi man was killed after approaching a Marine checkpoint.

"At the first Winter Soldier in 1971, one of the testifiers showed a picture like this and said, 'Don't ever let your government to do this to you,' " Kokesh said. "And still the government is doing this."

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Vet Health Care:
At a session on shortcomings in veterans' health care, audience members sobbed as Joyce and Kevin Lucey described the suicide of their son, Marine Cpl. Jeffrey Lucey, a death they blamed on his inability to get treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder.
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oldgrowth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. You can watch video and audio ,links
video
http://ivaw.org /
http://ivaw.org/wintersoldier/localcable
On the DishNetwork: Channel 9415

audio
http://www.warcomeshome.org/about

Tears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Previous 'Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan" Testimony Thread:
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Lots of Info on Winter Soldier Here:
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. having trouble with the video... getting the audio ok. . . . k&r. . . n/t
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fed-up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. should have been the front page story (every day-last 5 years), NOT Page B01 nt
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. WHY IS THIS NOT ON "GREATEST" YET??!?
c'mon... I hate yelling...
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horseshoecrab Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kicking
:kick:

horseshoecrab
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List left Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. where has the media been
and where are they now?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I am in DC and saw NOTHING on local news
CNN is on the tornado in Atlanta and Fox is obsessing over the Obama preacher story.
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ajamo Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Press an news from the Military
They are busy making money on the elections don't you know?

They are to busy slamming Clinton and Obama, you know the
ones they refer to as woman and African American.

Why do they not say it the right way, the woman of mix bloods
in her veins and the Black/White American.  His mother is
white, probably of mixed bloods in her veins.

I wondered where the rest of the news was myself.

CNN I thought was the best of news, but I changed my mind on
them most of their mouths try to start trouble constantly.

I fully support however Keith is good, he tells it like it
is.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Welcome to DU
:hi:
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. The American people HATE this and yet it continues
WHY cause a bunch of greedy politicians and the New World Order agenda must happen
Our children die every day as well as the Iraqis who were supposet to be liberated

all LIES

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
14. Getting ready to head out there now, Hissy
Got to DC late last night so we are getting a slow start this morning.

I will let you know how it goes. We hear security is very tight. :hi:
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
16. When are our young men and women going to stop
signing up for an ILLEGAL WAR!?
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Gonnuts Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. When?
When we quit manufacturing ghettos where their only choice is dying in our streets here or the possibility that they may not die on the streets there and get out with something better than the ghettos offer.

We're a Warrior Nation. America is now the enemy of peace. This won't stop until we as a nation re-direct our energies 180 degrees.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. Kicking for all the innocent lives destroyed.
This should be front page in all papers across the nation. It's time to impeach the Bush administration. Its time to have them in the Hague.
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jimmil Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. They are saying what the public doesn't want to hear.
The public wants to hear Teddy Roosevelt charging up San Juan Hill. They want to hear John Wayne urging his troops forward in the face of certain death to come out victorious. They want to see their dying with a clean face saying goodbye to mom and God Bless America.

War is horrific. It is mass murder. It is bodies blown apart, screams of pain, children crying, mothers wailing for their dead. Americans do not want to hear that. They do not want to know what literal atrocities are committed in their name. Make no mistake about it, war is an atrocity mankind commits upon itself. And when our young men and women return from war, we pat them on the head and tell them to get about living a normal life and don't talk about it again.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Very well put.
I would also add that war is the lowest common denominator for those who are not brave enough to use their brains wisely. It's a fools game. And I say that as a former US Marine myself.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #20
37. Gen. Smedley Butler said it best...
"War is a racket."

Eat the apple....
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RoseMead Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. ". . . The old Lie;
Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori."
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. Reality is hard to hear but needed. This is Bush & Cheney's legacy. This will live in infamy!
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Why doesn't this have more recks? Why doesn't it get more posts and
kicks? I just don't understand it.

I'm practically in tears. It isn't because it is so graphic or that I'm being told something I don't already know. I know war is an atrocity. I know that this war is illegal and immoral. I know innocent people are being killed by US policy -- the military being just an instrument of it. I know that the lives of these young men have been shaken to the core of their soul -- because that is what war does and that is what the President and his Cabinet wanted and that is what our Congress voted for and what we've all allowed to happen however much we may have opposed it in our hearts. It makes me cry. It makes me weep for all of us. And we need to weep. We need to feel the consequences of our actions. And we need to take responsibility for those actions -- or the lack of them as the case may be. Only feeling this deeply can help us move from powerlessness to power, from dull outrage to action! And I weep because nothing has changed. Almost half a century ago now, Paul Potter said this regarding Vietnam:


Most of us grew up thinking that the United States was a great and humble nation that only involved itself in the affairs of other countries reluctantly and as a last and final resort. But now the war in Vietnam has provided the incredibly sharp razor that has finely separated thousands and thousands of people from their illusions about the morality and integrity of this countrys purposes internationally. Never again will this self-righteous saccharine moralism of promising a billion dollars of economic aid while we spend billions and billions of dollars to destroy them, never again will that moralism have the power to persuade people of the essential decency of this countrys aims. What kind of a system is it that allows decent men, good men, to make the decisions that have led to the thousands and thousands of deaths that have happened in Vietnam? What kind of a system is it that justifies the United States seizing the destinies of other people and using them callously for our own ends? We must name that system, and we must change it and control it, else it will destroy us.
-Paul Potter, President of SDS
on Vietnam Day May 1965


What Paul said about Vietnam is just as true for Iraq today -- and his foresight was accurate. That system is destroying us -- destroying our soul, our will, our intelligence, our very ability to survive as a free nation.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. I have been crying off and on all morning during 'Racism and War: The Dehumanizaion of the Enemy"
panel being broadcast live in Los Angeles on KPFK 90.7 FM.

For anyone who thought the U.S. military was still even slightly better than the Nazi armies of World War II, these hearings should finally dispel any illusions you might have held. The behavior and atrocities both at the small-unit level and the larger-scale collective punishments inflicted parallel almost exactly the behavior and tactics of Nazi occupation forces in eastern Europe.
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maryallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for posting this, Hissyspit.
My father was a veteran of Vietnam and my son is a veteran of Iraq.

Neither would talk about their experiences in war. It might have helped my Dad had he been able to release some of his pent-up emotions. He died at age 61 from hypertension/stroke, complicated by vicious malaria that never left his body upon leaving 'Nam.
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Gonnuts Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. Where's Barak and Hillary?
If they're against this war why aren't they supporting these brave soldiers?
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IcyPeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. sshhh, they don't want to talk about the war... too horrific
to speak about before the elections.......
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. why the hell isn't cspan carrying this?? n/t
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Alameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. Everyone should listen to this!!!
It was painful to listen to, but even though I have been aware of much of these incidents, listening to the vets talk about it really brings it home.

Yes, where are the politicians, where is network news? Why isn't there more attention given to this?
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. It is so hard and so necessary
to listen to this. My heart is breaking for the Iraqis, the men and women offering witness, all those who have died or been wounded, and for my country. Hissyspit, thanks for the op. I needed to be reminded to go to Washington again.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R
I'm feeling sick right now.
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SalviaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. It's very hard to hear.
I have been listening on KPFA off and on all day. I feel like I have to. To bear witness is the least I can do. I hope and believe that these guys/gals coming forward will make a difference.

Recommended

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Peace Teacher Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. God Bless our veterans who speak their minds and hearts.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. any other major news outlets covering this?
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