Clinton insists Michigan, Florida votes should be counted

[Sub Atomic]

Source: LA Times

Clinton insists Michigan, Florida votes should be counted

By Johanna Neuman, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
9:12 AM PDT, March 12, 2008

New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton weighed in today on the dilemma of disputed primaries in Michigan and Florida, arguing that their delegations should be seated at the Democratic convention unless the two states hold new primaries.

"Honor the results or hold new primary elections," she said. "I don't see any other solutions that are fair and honor the commitment that two and a half million voters made in the Democratic primaries in those two states."

...

The two states ran afoul of rules set by the Democratic National Committee when they held their primaries in January rather than in March. As a result, Obama took his name off the Michigan ballot and did not campaign in Florida. Clinton won the Michigan primary (55% to 40%) and won Florida (50% to 33%).

...

Less expensive alternatives -- like mail-in voting or caucuses -- have been discussed, but Clinton today seemed to rule that out.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign13ma...

[stray cat]

1. Re-counted would work - one can't wait to see the results and then decide if it counts

[saigon68]

55. Not amazing at all

Since in one state she was the only one on the ballot

[9119495]

2. flip-flop...

[Hawkeye-X]

3. Key words here - Clinton won't get her way!

Less expensive alternatives -- like mail-in voting or caucuses -- have been discussed, but Clinton today seemed to rule that out.

[Tarc]

6. I do not wish to sacrifise democracy for the sake of financial concerns

[TwilightGardener]

15. ...

[TwilightGardener]

4. Time for the hook. Get this person off the national stage, please, she's embarrassing.

[EFerrari]

12. I bookmarked this thread for the next time someone tries to tell me

what an altruist she is.

[displacedtexan]

21. Good. Then you'll see this: "Obama camp resistant to mail-in vote"

From CNN:

Obama campaign manager David Plouffe expressed strong reservations on Wednesday to the prospect of a mail-in revote in either Florida or Michigan.

"I do think there's real questions about the mail-in option here," Plouffe said on a conference call with reporters. "These are very complicated elections to put on. In the state of Oregon which is kind of the standard for this, it took well over 10 years to get comfortable doing this statewide, to have signature verification in place, lots of alternatives for people to vote in person, there's questions around the list, both of these states have justice department review, that would need to take place, so there's a lot of questions."

--Snip--

Responding to Plouffe's comments, the Clinton campaign noted that the Illinois senator co-sponsored a bill last June that "would establish a vote by mail grant program."

Bookmark it.

[EFerrari]

33. So, what is the problem? Clearly, setting up a mail in vote

so that it works takes time.

Really, you people are ridiculous.

[goodgd_yall]

36. From the New York Times

"Mr. Obama’s did not spell out his Plan B, but he said that any revote would be problematic, particularly if conducted by mail in Michigan and Florida, two states that have never conducted a mail-in election. He said he would like to see the Michigan and Florida delegations seated in an “equitable” way, without spelling out what that would mean.

"Obama advisers declined on Wednesday to say what a fair distribution of delegates would look like but have floated a plan to apportion the delegates 50-50, wiping out any advantage that Mrs. Clinton might have gained from the votes in January and essentially making the two states meaningless in the nomination fight."


Instead of sitting on the fence, why can't our potential POTUS come up with an idea? His adviser's idea is certainly inequitable. I don't know why they would even suggest just arbitrarily splitting the votes 50-50.

[EFerrari]

39. Would you recognize an idea if it floated past you?

Hillary will not get away with this. She is disgusting everyone and hurting our down ticket candidates.

[displacedtexan]

42. Obama was a Clinton downticket candidate in 1996.

[EFerrari]

43. Thankfully not a HILLARY Clinton down ticket candidate.

Although it seems as though the campaign has serious boundary and identity malfunctions.

[goodgd_yall]

51. You aren't usually noted for your rudeness, sfexpat2000.

I'll chalk it up to Primary tensions.

[Tarc]

59. That is the only thing that that user is noted for

I have a whopping 3 people on my ignore list, and that nasty piece of work is one of them.

[Catch22Dem]

48. Why should Obama come up with a plan?

FL and MI were both warned MONTHS in advance what would happen if they changed their primary dates. They were both given ample opportunity to UNDO it once it was done. They both chose to go ahead. I don't think a single penny should be wasted on another primary.

[goodgd_yall]

50. That is a short-sighted opinion.

Thankfully you are in the minority. The necessity of counting the Michigan and Florida delegates is acknowledged by most Democrats (outside Obama's supporters apparently).

[Catch22Dem]

54. Short-sighted? Really?

This went on forEVER and they did it anyway. When they were hit with the ton of bricks that they could have actually been major players had they kept their original dates, they suddenly decided they wanted do-overs. They thought this would be over the first week in February. Now THAT'S short-sighted!

[Dr. Strange]

63. The short-sighted opinion would be letting them get away with it.

Because if FL and/or MI are allowed to seat their delegates, you're gonna see primaries before Christmas 2011.

[gasperc]

5. I think she should jump in Lake Michigan

I'll be part of the welcome crew

[notadmblnd]

9. Lake Superior

because it's colder.

[saigon68]

56. Yes it is

Very Very cold

[pbca]

7. This debate is pretty much over

The FL/MI delegates can be split 50/50 or they can stay home. FL and MI decided not to have legitimate primaries. When offered a second chance they turned it down. Unless they want to spend the money (and it will be alot extra at this point) to have a legitimate primary on a extremely short time frame - it's over.

[tired_old_fireman]

16. I could care less who wins this primary

But, the republicans in Florida are the ones who decided when to hold the election which caused all this mess. I have a huge problem with disenfranchising all the democrats in Florida because of a decision made by republicans. I think people are getting too caught up in the Obama/Clinton contest to remember that democrats are supposed to be for democracy.

[pbca]

17. The bill to move the primary was introduced by a democrat

and unanimously supported by the Dems in the state legislature. I'm all for Democracy but I have no say in Florida state law. Both the Florida State legislature and the Florida Democratic Party leadership have opted not to have a Dem primary in Florida this year. The national DLC can't force Florida to have a primary, nor can the DLC just kinda pretend that Florida did.

[tired_old_fireman]

18. I stand corrected.

I'm an idiot. I got my "facts" from the TV again.

[Zhade]

31. .

.

[goclark]

53. Now all of a sudden everyone at Camp Clinton is waking up

She thought she had the nomination in the bag.

She doesn't give a s--- about equality.

If it was Mississippi that didn't get a chance to vote, she wouldn't care on ounce.

Seat all the delegates 50/50 because ultimately it comes down to those numbers.

[DJ13]

8. The Queen must not be ignored!

[nxylas]

22. God save the Queen

The fascist regime. Made you a moron, potential H-bomb.

[Emillereid]

61. I love this graphic!

[RiverStone]

10. I can't fathom her argument...

I'm all for a redo; I was unclear if she is opposed to that, if so --- WHY?

At the very least, Obama was not even on the MI ballot and did not campaign in FLA - they will never be seated as is.

Either a redo, 50/50 split, or nothing.

[goodgd_yall]

37. A 50-50 split is as good as not seating them at all

50-50 is not representative of the voters; it's merely a convenience for one of the candidates (Obama). Obama's advisers are self-serving to suggest that as a solution.

[ingac70]

11. She signed the pledge!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/us/politics/02dems.ht...

[NoodleyAppendage]

13. You don't give a shit about anyone but yourself...who are you kidding, Hillary? Oh, that's right...

...many HillBots have drunk your brainwashing koolaid. Poor saps.

J

[goodgd_yall]

38. And suggesting a 50-50 split is not self-serving of the Obama campaign?

That's not democracy.

[Zhade]

57. How can it be self-serving when it doesn't change either's position at all?

Silly.

[coalition_unwilling]

14. HilBilly's strategy: destroy the Dem Party for the general election

in November 2008, so as to position herself to run in 2012. Hilbilly would rather McLame win in Nov 2008 than Obama. She needs to be drummed out of the party, imho, along with her husband.

[Kolesar]

26. Hillary is f-ing politicking the issue to stir up controversy and discontent

thanks for nothing, loser.

[goodgd_yall]

19. What did Clinton say for the reporter to state that Clinton "seemed"

to rule out mail-in voting?

[BearSquirrel2]

20. There are no delegations ...

Delegations can only be selected in adherence with Democratic Primary rules. Their "delegates" might as well be random people selected from a shopping mall. There were no campaigns in Michigan and Florida. It would be like having a gymnastics competition with no one there and the judges just holding up cards at empty apparatus.

There were no Democratic primaries in Florida and Michigan. There were referendum on Clinton name recognition.

Clinton is desperate to have revotes in Florida and Michigan because even if Obama lost these competitions he could get the pledged delegates he needs to secure a majority and end Clinton's bid before the convention. She will not say this in public. Instead she plays the advocate of Democracy and endorses these fake elections.

[Zhade]

32. On the contrary, Clinton campaigned in FL but called it a "fund raiser".

Otherwise, you are correct.

[Plucketeer]

23. Isn't it amazing?

How desperate and frantic this gal is getting to be? I understand her disappointment what with her ego having been inflated to a point that would've made the Hindenburg jealous. Thing in - her demise is gonna be every bit as ugly as that vintage gasbag's was.
"OH THE HUMANITY!!"

Bill-> <-Hillary

[indimuse]

24. "and did not campaign in Florida." WELL neither did Hillary! SHE WON!

both names on FL ballot! OBAMA campaigned in FL with NATIONAL ADS! IF Obama got 1 vote it was fair!they should seat FL to Hillary...Mich split!

[Zhade]

34. I work in broadcasting. Allow me to refute your claim. National ads DON'T COUNT as campaigning...

...locally.

Try again.

[indimuse]

41. ok.

neither campaigned there. BUT Barack was the ONLY candidate to run ADS! wink.
~
~
~ What kind of broadcasting and where?

[Zhade]

58. But then, Clinton disguised her in-person campaigning as a "fund raiser".

Satellite, and I can't say (I've already said too much on these boards before, LOL).

[mdmc]

25. Drop out OBAMA!

She says so

[MilesColtrane]

27. Hear! Hear!

Absolutely, reward the voters in Michigan and Florida for breaking the rules they agreed on by letting them select our nominee!

Brilliant!

[bluestateguy]

28. Fine.

We'll throw out the old (illegal) primary results and replace them with slates of uncommitted delegates, but somehow I'm sure that Hillary would squawk about that too.

[noonwitch]

29. As a Michigan resident who voted in January, I would really like for my vote to count

I don't care who screwed up. I voted and I didn't screw it up. My vote should count.

[Zhade]

35. You were told it wouldn't count. That was the deal.

It sucks, but counting your vote now would be cheating, especially since Obama followed the rules and took his name off the ballot, unlike Clinton.

[MilesColtrane]

45. Your representatives in the Michigan Democratic Party screwed you over.

...starting with Carl Levin who initiated the whole move.

While the actual bill to move the primary was introduced by Republicans, all of your Democratic State Senators voted for it (except for one who didn't vote) along with 29 Democratic State Reps.

Then it was signed into law by your Democratic Governor.

They disenfranchised you.

I suggest getting rid of them and putting in Democrats who abide by the party rules they've previously agreed on.

[Zhade]

30. Nope. Seating them now would be CHEATING.

Not going to happen.

You lost, Clinton. Move on and stop trying to destroy the nominee.

[annabanana]

40. as is?. . .with no one BUT Clinton on the ballot in Michigan?

After everyone had been told that they wouldn't count?
In what world is that fair?

[EFerrari]

44. HillaryWorld. n/t

[JeanGrey]

46. "Fair" solutions.......ROTFLMAO

Just wow

[dchill]

47. Hillary has always wanted to win...

a popularity contest! Now she has!

[rocktivity]

49. Candidate for this month's "You Call This NEWS?" Award

Honor an election in which she was the only person on the ballot? She's "honorable," all right. Stay the course, Dr. Dean!


rocknation

[humbled_opinion]

52. IF SHE STEALS THIS ELECTION

from the will of the people then I fully support Barrack Obama as a third party Independent.

[Tarc]

60. "IF I THINK MY OPPONENT IS DIVISIVE, THEN I WILL BE EVEN MORE DIVISIVE"

Great plan, guys.

[humbled_opinion]

62. I wont vote for someone that does not speak for the will of the people.

That is no longer a democracy. or do you disagree?

[rocktivity]

64. Candidate for this month's "You Call This NEWS?" award

Yesterday, the mods locked an LBN story about a member of the Clinton camp saying that Obama couldn't win the general election. I think history needs to repeat itself!


rocknation